{"id":149447,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149447","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe5df5aad51cc453333ebf0b3ad7e91c05f8ba9b0039caa7a6e5f61c5647d20dc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:12:36 - 09:23:03","影片長度":"00:10:27","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「電價調漲對產業、民生等衝擊研擬配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-2"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":627,"end_time":"2024-03-07T09:23:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T09:12:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":57,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時12分）謝謝召委，請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我想我們的立場非常清楚，我們絕對是反對電價調漲喔，我相信從所有的民意代表到中央，這一個是我們大家共同的目標。我們也希望能夠渡過這一波的難關，可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料、燃料的漲價，然後再加上俄烏的因素，請問我們在這幾年光是燃料的漲價幅度到底是多少？"],["王部長美花：是，所以我有提到，在俄烏戰爭之前，我們一年購買燃料的費用，包括台電自己購的或者IPP電廠購的燃料算起來，其實都沒有到3,000億，但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年，我們的燃料購電支出都超過6,000億，主要就是這個部分的漲幅……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以是二倍！燃料的漲幅達到了二倍！"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這樣的漲幅是全世界的狀態嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：那麼我們也必須要再討論的一點是，現在很多的工業團體一直說臺灣的電價比別的國家還貴，有嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有，其實臺灣的電跟很多國家比起來都低非常多。"],["陳委員亭妃：低非常多？"],["王部長美花：對，即使我們在過去的兩年有調漲過，平均漲8%跟平均漲11%，但是這兩次調漲之後，我們還是比其他國家還要便宜。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們來看一下臺灣、韓國、法國、英國、德國的比較，以臺灣跟韓國、法國、英國、德國的電價部分來說，臺灣是多少？"],["王部長美花：是，我這裡有提出來，臺灣的住宅電價是2.65元，工業電價的部分是3.38元；韓國的工業電價部分是4.53元，所以臺灣的價格比韓國還低超過一塊錢，更不要講法國是8.45元、英國是10.76元、德國是8.2元，所以他們的工業電價都遠比臺灣高非常多。"],["陳委員亭妃：以這些工業大國來看，剛剛說的這個數字是2023的工業電價嘛，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以如果依照2023的工業電價來說，我們臺灣是3.38元，韓國4.53元、法國8.45元、英國10.76元、德國8.2元，如果依照這樣的數字來看，我們是最低的，所以也不是現在外界所傳說的臺灣工業電價很貴，不是吧？因為依照這樣的數字來看，那個說法是錯的……"],["王部長美花：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：即使我們在這當中對於工業電價的部分調漲了兩次，對不對？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：漲了兩次之後，目前在工業的平均電價還是比較低的。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口，我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼？"],["王部長美花：有，我們優先還是希望……"],["陳委員亭妃：因為這是非戰之罪啊！因為這是俄烏戰爭造成的啊，俄烏戰爭造成全世界所有燃料價格飛漲嘛，在這樣的前提之下，我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊！"],["王部長美花：是，謝謝委員支持。"],["陳委員亭妃：那麼這個部分呢？"],["王部長美花：沒有錯，確實在過去政府也有支持台電，所以在增資的部分總共協助台電2,500億，一次1,500億、一次1,000億，另外補貼的部分有500億，有爭取，就是因為這個缺口太大了，如果全部反映到電價，對整個臺灣的通膨及對民生的影響太大，所以確實台電緩漲了非常多，也造成了這樣一個虧損的缺口。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們過去兩次的補貼都可以反映在民生的部分，因為我們上一次是700度以下沒有調漲，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果是這樣子的話，為什麼這一次外界傳的沸沸揚揚說這次可能要往下拉到330度，有這樣的傳言出來，我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的方式？再像之前那樣往我們的民生用電來做補貼，直接由政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，對於這個部分，主要是我剛才報告時也有講到，我們在120度以下的用電來說，目前的電價只有1.6塊，1.6元跟我們現在電的成本4.17元其實差距是非常非常的大，也就是說，這樣的情形其實是乖離太多的情形，在電價審議會決定是否調漲的時候，我們仍舊會照顧小的用電戶等等，這個大原則我們還是會注意。"],["陳委員亭妃：以用電戶來說，小的用電戶的比例太高了啦，這個比例很高，雖然依照我們用電比是2比2比6，是不是？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：也就是說，我們一般住戶大概是用二成，然後小店鋪是用二成，企業與工業用電是六成，如果以這樣的比例來看，才占了二成，如果政府的補貼機制是往我們的一般民生用電的話，我覺得這是OK的啊！"],["王部長美花：這個部分我們一定會做考量，過往在家庭的住宅用電部分，我們確實就會分級距越高的調漲比較多，級距越低的就調漲比較少，甚至凍漲，沒有錯，但是這整個大原則我們仍舊會提到審議會裡面去審查。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我覺得既然有考慮由政府編列預算去做這樣一個所謂的電的虧損補貼，那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊……"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們民生的區塊，而且在小店家的部分，你也要去考量到這個會直接影響到整個物價，因為小店舖它會直接反映在物價上，物價又會直接影響到民生的一些狀態，我覺得這個都是層層的關卡，我們一定要思考到。"],["王部長美花：是，所以這個部分我們……"],["陳委員亭妃：而且現在媒體，因為審議委員會還沒召開，我們現在都是從媒體了解，可是媒體一宣布出來，其實大家都已經有預期心理了，可能有些房東就開始說，未來我的固定電價調漲，我會把你的租金做一個調整，這些租客又開始擔心了。所以我們要跟大家說的是，現在所有媒體都說民生用電有可能漲5%漲10%，到底漲5%、10%，如果是用電量120度以下，因為現在都是媒體在說嘛，媒體說可能330度以下不漲，330度以上會漲還是全部都要漲？好，那我們現在希望民生用電不要漲，可是我們依照媒體所講的，如果120度以下跟121度到330度漲5%，到底一個月是漲多少？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。確實我們試算過，假設120度的部分，我們試算過假設漲5%，一個月是漲9塊錢；如果是330度的部分，一個月大概是漲45塊左右，一個月。"],["陳委員亭妃：330度以下基本上占了我們現在總共68%的占比喔，就是我們民生用電的68%的占比喔。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以如果依照現在媒體講的沸沸揚揚，有5%、有10%，假設是5%，你說有可能一戶，你說的是一戶？"],["王部長美花：是，一戶一個月。"],["陳委員亭妃：一戶120度一個月有可能漲9塊錢？"],["王部長美花：9塊錢，是。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後121到330度漲了34塊？"],["王部長美花：對，就是用最高的330度來算的話。"],["陳委員亭妃：都是滿的？"],["王部長美花：對，滿的。"],["陳委員亭妃：就是以用電量到120度跟用電量到330度，是不是？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以其實這種5%、10%跟所謂實質到底漲了多少，我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了，這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理，甚至很多房東就已經開始說，我現在要針對固定費率調整喔，然後就是再往上攀升，我覺得這個對於現在都是傷，所以我還是認為我們政府補貼，這個非戰之罪，因為是俄烏戰爭，全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲，兩倍欸，如果是這樣子的話，我們補貼就要從民生開始嘛！民生的部分，我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感，這個部分我拜託我們的部長，一定要非常重視，把這個關鍵抓住。拜託。"],["王部長美花：好，謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請林岱樺委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":250,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 621.329, \"end\": 621.349, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,595 --> 00:00:06,856\n我們的立場非常清楚,我們絕對是反對我們的電價調漲\n\n2\n00:00:27,298 --> 00:00:49,759\n我相信從所有的民意代表到中央絕對這個是我們大家共同的目標我們也希望能夠度過這一波的難關可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料燃料的一個漲價然後再加上二屋漲的一個因素\n\n3\n00:00:50,760 --> 00:01:16,917\n到底我們在這幾年光這樣的一個燃料它的一個漲價的幅度到底是多少?所以我有提到在這個俄烏戰爭之前我們一年購的這個燃料包括台電自己購或者IPP電廠的購的這個燃料算起來其實都沒有到3000億但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年我們的這個燃料的購電支出都達\n\n4\n00:01:17,517 --> 00:01:17,537\n臺灣的電\n\n5\n00:01:43,558 --> 00:01:44,519\n台灣韓國、法國、英國、德國我們來比較一下\n\n6\n00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:22,460\n這個到底我們台灣、韓國、法國、英國的所有的這個電價的部分\n\n7\n00:02:24,910 --> 00:02:27,473\n台灣是多少是那所以這裡有提出來台灣的住宅是2.65公頁的部分是3.38那韓國呢這個工業的部分是4.53所以台灣的價格比韓國還低一塊超過一塊錢\n\n8\n00:02:43,693 --> 00:02:59,877\n那更不要講法國是8.45英國是10.76德國是8.2所以他們的工業用電都遠比台灣高非常多所以以這些工業大國來看台灣目前我們是以2023我們的工業電價來看嘛對不對所以如依照2023的工業電價\n\n9\n00:03:06,741 --> 00:03:23,495\n我們台灣3.38韓國4.53法國8.45英國10.76德國8.2若依照這樣的一個平均我們是最低所以也不是現在外傳說哇\n\n10\n00:03:25,436 --> 00:03:53,340\n台灣的工業電價很貴不是吧因為依照這樣的一個標準是錯的沒錯即使我們的當中我們對於對於工業的部分其實漲了兩次嘛對對不對漲了兩次是漲了兩次之後目前還是在工業的平均用電是比較低的是那我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼有有我們\n\n11\n00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:09,642\n因為這是非戰制罪啊!因為這是惡巫啊!惡巫的戰爭造成全世界所有燃料一個飛漲嘛!所以這樣的一個前提之下我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊!\n\n12\n00:04:10,583 --> 00:04:11,543\n對整個台灣的通膨對民生的影響太大所以我們的確實台電呢\n\n13\n00:05:06,690 --> 00:05:20,082\n那這樣的一個傳言那我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的部分在像之前在往我們的民生用電來做補貼直接政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電謝謝委員\n\n14\n00:05:22,003 --> 00:05:27,506\n對於這一個部分主要是我剛才報告也有講我們在125度以下的目前的電價只有1.6塊1.6那1.6跟我們現在電的成本是4.17其實差距是非常非常的大那也就是說這樣的情形其實是一個乖離的太多的情形\n\n15\n00:05:43,455 --> 00:05:45,818\n但是我們如果在電價審議會調漲的時候我們仍舊會照顧這個小的用電戶等等這個的大原則我們還是會注意這個用電戶小的用電戶這個比例太高啦\n\n16\n00:05:59,909 --> 00:06:27,227\n雖然如果依照我們用電是2比2比6嘛是不是就是說我們的一般住戶大概是兩層然後小店鋪是兩層然後我們的企業工業用電是六層可是如果依照平均他才佔了兩層我們如果在政府的補貼機制往我們的這些一般的民生用電的話我覺得這是OK的啊\n\n17\n00:06:28,628 --> 00:06:31,911\n這個部分我們一定會做考量那所以過往在這個家庭的住宅用電部分我們確實就會分這個急劇越高的那調漲比較多急劇越低調漲少甚至有動漲沒有錯\n\n18\n00:06:44,763 --> 00:07:01,756\n但是這個整個的部分的代言者我們仍就會提到這個審議會裡面去審查部長我覺得我們既然如果有要考慮到我們要政府編列預算要去做這樣的一個所謂的電的虧損補貼那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊\n\n19\n00:07:08,021 --> 00:07:08,301\n是!\n\n20\n00:07:08,301 --> 00:07:08,321\n是!\n\n21\n00:07:24,167 --> 00:07:44,521\n我覺得這個都是層層的關卡我們一定要思考到而且現在媒體我們現在因為審議委員會還沒召開我們現在都從媒體可是媒體一宣布出來其實大家都已經慾其心理了有些可能這個房東就開始說哇未來我的固定這個電價這個調漲會把你做一個調整欸這個\n\n22\n00:07:49,184 --> 00:08:06,940\n我們的這些租客又開始擔心了所以我們要跟大家說的是到底現在所有媒體都說有可能漲5%、漲10%在民生用電那到底這個5%、10%在我們如果120度以下還有121因為現在都媒體嘛媒體說可能330度以下\n\n23\n00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:30,716\n好,謝謝委員\n\n24\n00:09:00,796 --> 00:09:08,340\n講得沸沸揚揚有5%有10%5%你說的有可能一戶你說的是一戶一戶120度一個月有可能漲了9塊錢然後121到330度漲了34塊對就是用最高的330度來賺的吧都是滿就是以我用電量到120度跟用電量到330度是不是所以其實\n\n25\n00:09:31,072 --> 00:09:51,617\n這種5%、10%跟這個所謂實質到底漲了多少我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理甚至是很多的房東就已經開始說我現在要針對固定費率要調喔然後就是再往上攀升這個我覺得這個對於現在都是傷\n\n26\n00:09:53,817 --> 00:10:21,349\n所以我還是認為我們政府補貼這個非戰之罪因為是惡霧戰爭全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲兩倍欸兩倍如果是這樣的話我們補貼就要從民生民生開始嘛民生的部分我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感這個部分我拜託我們的部長一定要非常把這個關鍵抓住好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5595\t6856\t我們的立場非常清楚,我們絕對是反對我們的電價調漲\n27298\t49759\t我相信從所有的民意代表到中央絕對這個是我們大家共同的目標我們也希望能夠度過這一波的難關可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料燃料的一個漲價然後再加上二屋漲的一個因素\n50760\t76917\t到底我們在這幾年光這樣的一個燃料它的一個漲價的幅度到底是多少?所以我有提到在這個俄烏戰爭之前我們一年購的這個燃料包括台電自己購或者IPP電廠的購的這個燃料算起來其實都沒有到3000億但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年我們的這個燃料的購電支出都達\n77517\t77537\t臺灣的電\n103558\t104519\t台灣韓國、法國、英國、德國我們來比較一下\n134120\t142460\t這個到底我們台灣、韓國、法國、英國的所有的這個電價的部分\n144910\t147473\t台灣是多少是那所以這裡有提出來台灣的住宅是2.65公頁的部分是3.38那韓國呢這個工業的部分是4.53所以台灣的價格比韓國還低一塊超過一塊錢\n163693\t179877\t那更不要講法國是8.45英國是10.76德國是8.2所以他們的工業用電都遠比台灣高非常多所以以這些工業大國來看台灣目前我們是以2023我們的工業電價來看嘛 對不對所以如依照2023的工業電價\n186741\t203495\t我們台灣3.38韓國4.53法國8.45英國10.76德國8.2若依照這樣的一個平均我們是最低所以也不是現在外傳說哇\n205436\t233340\t台灣的工業電價很貴不是吧因為依照這樣的一個標準是錯的沒錯即使我們的當中我們對於對於工業的部分其實漲了兩次嘛對對不對漲了兩次是漲了兩次之後目前還是在工業的平均用電是比較低的是那我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼有有我們\n234120\t249642\t因為這是非戰制罪啊!因為這是惡巫啊!惡巫的戰爭造成全世界所有燃料一個飛漲嘛!所以這樣的一個前提之下我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊!\n250583\t251543\t對整個台灣的通膨對民生的影響太大所以我們的確實台電呢\n279070\t306169\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n306690\t320082\t那這樣的一個傳言那我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的部分在像之前在往我們的民生用電來做補貼直接政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電謝謝委員\n322003\t327506\t對於這一個部分主要是我剛才報告也有講我們在125度以下的目前的電價只有1.6塊1.6那1.6跟我們現在電的成本是4.17其實差距是非常非常的大那也就是說這樣的情形其實是一個乖離的太多的情形\n343455\t345818\t但是我們如果在電價審議會調漲的時候我們仍舊會照顧這個小的用電戶等等 這個的大原則我們還是會注意這個用電戶小的用電戶這個比例太高啦\n359909\t387227\t雖然如果依照我們用電是2比2比6嘛是不是就是說我們的一般住戶大概是兩層然後小店鋪是兩層然後我們的企業工業用電是六層可是如果依照平均他才佔了兩層我們如果在政府的補貼機制往我們的這些一般的民生用電的話我覺得這是OK的啊\n388628\t391911\t這個部分我們一定會做考量那所以過往在這個家庭的住宅用電部分我們確實就會分這個急劇越高的那調漲比較多急劇越低調漲少甚至有動漲沒有錯\n404763\t421756\t但是這個整個的部分的代言者我們仍就會提到這個審議會裡面去審查部長我覺得我們既然如果有要考慮到我們要政府編列預算要去做這樣的一個所謂的電的虧損補貼那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊\n428021\t428301\t是!\n428301\t428321\t是!\n444167\t464521\t我覺得這個都是層層的關卡我們一定要思考到而且現在媒體我們現在因為審議委員會還沒召開我們現在都從媒體可是媒體一宣布出來其實大家都已經慾其心理了有些可能這個房東就開始說哇未來我的固定這個電價這個調漲會把你做一個調整欸這個\n469184\t486940\t我們的這些租客又開始擔心了所以我們要跟大家說的是到底現在所有媒體都說有可能漲5%、漲10%在民生用電那到底這個5%、10%在我們如果120度以下還有121因為現在都媒體嘛媒體說可能330度以下\n494087\t510196\t﹗\n510276\t510716\t好,謝謝委員\n540796\t548340\t講得沸沸揚揚有5%有10%5%你說的有可能一戶你說的是一戶一戶120度一個月有可能漲了9塊錢然後121到330度漲了34塊對就是用最高的330度來賺的吧都是滿就是以我用電量到120度跟用電量到330度是不是所以其實\n571072\t591617\t這種5%、10%跟這個所謂實質到底漲了多少我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理甚至是很多的房東就已經開始說我現在要針對固定費率要調喔然後就是再往上攀升這個我覺得這個對於現在都是傷\n593817\t621349\t所以我還是認為我們政府補貼這個非戰之罪因為是惡霧戰爭全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲兩倍欸兩倍如果是這樣的話我們補貼就要從民生民生開始嘛民生的部分我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感這個部分我拜託我們的部長一定要非常把這個關鍵抓住好謝謝委員謝謝\n626766\t627671\t謝謝!\n","txt":"我們的立場非常清楚,我們絕對是反對我們的電價調漲\n我相信從所有的民意代表到中央絕對這個是我們大家共同的目標我們也希望能夠度過這一波的難關可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料燃料的一個漲價然後再加上二屋漲的一個因素\n到底我們在這幾年光這樣的一個燃料它的一個漲價的幅度到底是多少?所以我有提到在這個俄烏戰爭之前我們一年購的這個燃料包括台電自己購或者IPP電廠的購的這個燃料算起來其實都沒有到3000億但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年我們的這個燃料的購電支出都達\n臺灣的電\n台灣韓國、法國、英國、德國我們來比較一下\n這個到底我們台灣、韓國、法國、英國的所有的這個電價的部分\n台灣是多少是那所以這裡有提出來台灣的住宅是2.65公頁的部分是3.38那韓國呢這個工業的部分是4.53所以台灣的價格比韓國還低一塊超過一塊錢\n那更不要講法國是8.45英國是10.76德國是8.2所以他們的工業用電都遠比台灣高非常多所以以這些工業大國來看台灣目前我們是以2023我們的工業電價來看嘛 對不對所以如依照2023的工業電價\n我們台灣3.38韓國4.53法國8.45英國10.76德國8.2若依照這樣的一個平均我們是最低所以也不是現在外傳說哇\n台灣的工業電價很貴不是吧因為依照這樣的一個標準是錯的沒錯即使我們的當中我們對於對於工業的部分其實漲了兩次嘛對對不對漲了兩次是漲了兩次之後目前還是在工業的平均用電是比較低的是那我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼有有我們\n因為這是非戰制罪啊!因為這是惡巫啊!惡巫的戰爭造成全世界所有燃料一個飛漲嘛!所以這樣的一個前提之下我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊!\n對整個台灣的通膨對民生的影響太大所以我們的確實台電呢\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n那這樣的一個傳言那我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的部分在像之前在往我們的民生用電來做補貼直接政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電謝謝委員\n對於這一個部分主要是我剛才報告也有講我們在125度以下的目前的電價只有1.6塊1.6那1.6跟我們現在電的成本是4.17其實差距是非常非常的大那也就是說這樣的情形其實是一個乖離的太多的情形\n但是我們如果在電價審議會調漲的時候我們仍舊會照顧這個小的用電戶等等 這個的大原則我們還是會注意這個用電戶小的用電戶這個比例太高啦\n雖然如果依照我們用電是2比2比6嘛是不是就是說我們的一般住戶大概是兩層然後小店鋪是兩層然後我們的企業工業用電是六層可是如果依照平均他才佔了兩層我們如果在政府的補貼機制往我們的這些一般的民生用電的話我覺得這是OK的啊\n這個部分我們一定會做考量那所以過往在這個家庭的住宅用電部分我們確實就會分這個急劇越高的那調漲比較多急劇越低調漲少甚至有動漲沒有錯\n但是這個整個的部分的代言者我們仍就會提到這個審議會裡面去審查部長我覺得我們既然如果有要考慮到我們要政府編列預算要去做這樣的一個所謂的電的虧損補貼那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊\n是!\n是!\n我覺得這個都是層層的關卡我們一定要思考到而且現在媒體我們現在因為審議委員會還沒召開我們現在都從媒體可是媒體一宣布出來其實大家都已經慾其心理了有些可能這個房東就開始說哇未來我的固定這個電價這個調漲會把你做一個調整欸這個\n我們的這些租客又開始擔心了所以我們要跟大家說的是到底現在所有媒體都說有可能漲5%、漲10%在民生用電那到底這個5%、10%在我們如果120度以下還有121因為現在都媒體嘛媒體說可能330度以下\n﹗\n好,謝謝委員\n講得沸沸揚揚有5%有10%5%你說的有可能一戶你說的是一戶一戶120度一個月有可能漲了9塊錢然後121到330度漲了34塊對就是用最高的330度來賺的吧都是滿就是以我用電量到120度跟用電量到330度是不是所以其實\n這種5%、10%跟這個所謂實質到底漲了多少我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理甚至是很多的房東就已經開始說我現在要針對固定費率要調喔然後就是再往上攀升這個我覺得這個對於現在都是傷\n所以我還是認為我們政府補貼這個非戰之罪因為是惡霧戰爭全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲兩倍欸兩倍如果是這樣的話我們補貼就要從民生民生開始嘛民生的部分我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感這個部分我拜託我們的部長一定要非常把這個關鍵抓住好謝謝委員謝謝\n謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.595 --> 00:06.856\n我們的立場非常清楚,我們絕對是反對我們的電價調漲\n\n00:27.298 --> 00:49.759\n我相信從所有的民意代表到中央絕對這個是我們大家共同的目標我們也希望能夠度過這一波的難關可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料燃料的一個漲價然後再加上二屋漲的一個因素\n\n00:50.760 --> 01:16.917\n到底我們在這幾年光這樣的一個燃料它的一個漲價的幅度到底是多少?所以我有提到在這個俄烏戰爭之前我們一年購的這個燃料包括台電自己購或者IPP電廠的購的這個燃料算起來其實都沒有到3000億但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年我們的這個燃料的購電支出都達\n\n01:17.517 --> 01:17.537\n臺灣的電\n\n01:43.558 --> 01:44.519\n台灣韓國、法國、英國、德國我們來比較一下\n\n02:14.120 --> 02:22.460\n這個到底我們台灣、韓國、法國、英國的所有的這個電價的部分\n\n02:24.910 --> 02:27.473\n台灣是多少是那所以這裡有提出來台灣的住宅是2.65公頁的部分是3.38那韓國呢這個工業的部分是4.53所以台灣的價格比韓國還低一塊超過一塊錢\n\n02:43.693 --> 02:59.877\n那更不要講法國是8.45英國是10.76德國是8.2所以他們的工業用電都遠比台灣高非常多所以以這些工業大國來看台灣目前我們是以2023我們的工業電價來看嘛對不對所以如依照2023的工業電價\n\n03:06.741 --> 03:23.495\n我們台灣3.38韓國4.53法國8.45英國10.76德國8.2若依照這樣的一個平均我們是最低所以也不是現在外傳說哇\n\n03:25.436 --> 03:53.340\n台灣的工業電價很貴不是吧因為依照這樣的一個標準是錯的沒錯即使我們的當中我們對於對於工業的部分其實漲了兩次嘛對對不對漲了兩次是漲了兩次之後目前還是在工業的平均用電是比較低的是那我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼有有我們\n\n03:54.120 --> 04:09.642\n因為這是非戰制罪啊!因為這是惡巫啊!惡巫的戰爭造成全世界所有燃料一個飛漲嘛!所以這樣的一個前提之下我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊!\n\n04:10.583 --> 04:11.543\n對整個台灣的通膨對民生的影響太大所以我們的確實台電呢\n\n05:06.690 --> 05:20.082\n那這樣的一個傳言那我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的部分在像之前在往我們的民生用電來做補貼直接政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電謝謝委員\n\n05:22.003 --> 05:27.506\n對於這一個部分主要是我剛才報告也有講我們在125度以下的目前的電價只有1.6塊1.6那1.6跟我們現在電的成本是4.17其實差距是非常非常的大那也就是說這樣的情形其實是一個乖離的太多的情形\n\n05:43.455 --> 05:45.818\n但是我們如果在電價審議會調漲的時候我們仍舊會照顧這個小的用電戶等等這個的大原則我們還是會注意這個用電戶小的用電戶這個比例太高啦\n\n05:59.909 --> 06:27.227\n雖然如果依照我們用電是2比2比6嘛是不是就是說我們的一般住戶大概是兩層然後小店鋪是兩層然後我們的企業工業用電是六層可是如果依照平均他才佔了兩層我們如果在政府的補貼機制往我們的這些一般的民生用電的話我覺得這是OK的啊\n\n06:28.628 --> 06:31.911\n這個部分我們一定會做考量那所以過往在這個家庭的住宅用電部分我們確實就會分這個急劇越高的那調漲比較多急劇越低調漲少甚至有動漲沒有錯\n\n06:44.763 --> 07:01.756\n但是這個整個的部分的代言者我們仍就會提到這個審議會裡面去審查部長我覺得我們既然如果有要考慮到我們要政府編列預算要去做這樣的一個所謂的電的虧損補貼那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊\n\n07:08.021 --> 07:08.301\n是!\n\n07:08.301 --> 07:08.321\n是!\n\n07:24.167 --> 07:44.521\n我覺得這個都是層層的關卡我們一定要思考到而且現在媒體我們現在因為審議委員會還沒召開我們現在都從媒體可是媒體一宣布出來其實大家都已經慾其心理了有些可能這個房東就開始說哇未來我的固定這個電價這個調漲會把你做一個調整欸這個\n\n07:49.184 --> 08:06.940\n我們的這些租客又開始擔心了所以我們要跟大家說的是到底現在所有媒體都說有可能漲5%、漲10%在民生用電那到底這個5%、10%在我們如果120度以下還有121因為現在都媒體嘛媒體說可能330度以下\n\n08:30.276 --> 08:30.716\n好,謝謝委員\n\n09:00.796 --> 09:08.340\n講得沸沸揚揚有5%有10%5%你說的有可能一戶你說的是一戶一戶120度一個月有可能漲了9塊錢然後121到330度漲了34塊對就是用最高的330度來賺的吧都是滿就是以我用電量到120度跟用電量到330度是不是所以其實\n\n09:31.072 --> 09:51.617\n這種5%、10%跟這個所謂實質到底漲了多少我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理甚至是很多的房東就已經開始說我現在要針對固定費率要調喔然後就是再往上攀升這個我覺得這個對於現在都是傷\n\n09:53.817 --> 10:21.349\n所以我還是認為我們政府補貼這個非戰之罪因為是惡霧戰爭全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲兩倍欸兩倍如果是這樣的話我們補貼就要從民生民生開始嘛民生的部分我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感這個部分我拜託我們的部長一定要非常把這個關鍵抓住好謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.595,"end":6.856,"text":"我們的立場非常清楚,我們絕對是反對我們的電價調漲"},{"start":27.298,"end":49.759,"text":"我相信從所有的民意代表到中央絕對這個是我們大家共同的目標我們也希望能夠度過這一波的難關可是現在的重點是在於整個原物料燃料的一個漲價然後再加上二屋漲的一個因素"},{"start":50.76,"end":76.917,"text":"到底我們在這幾年光這樣的一個燃料它的一個漲價的幅度到底是多少?所以我有提到在這個俄烏戰爭之前我們一年購的這個燃料包括台電自己購或者IPP電廠的購的這個燃料算起來其實都沒有到3000億但是俄烏戰爭之後的這兩年我們的這個燃料的購電支出都達"},{"start":77.517,"end":77.537,"text":"臺灣的電"},{"start":103.558,"end":104.519,"text":"台灣韓國、法國、英國、德國我們來比較一下"},{"start":134.12,"end":142.46,"text":"這個到底我們台灣、韓國、法國、英國的所有的這個電價的部分"},{"start":144.91,"end":147.473,"text":"台灣是多少是那所以這裡有提出來台灣的住宅是2.65公頁的部分是3.38那韓國呢這個工業的部分是4.53所以台灣的價格比韓國還低一塊超過一塊錢"},{"start":163.693,"end":179.877,"text":"那更不要講法國是8.45英國是10.76德國是8.2所以他們的工業用電都遠比台灣高非常多所以以這些工業大國來看台灣目前我們是以2023我們的工業電價來看嘛 對不對所以如依照2023的工業電價"},{"start":186.741,"end":203.495,"text":"我們台灣3.38韓國4.53法國8.45英國10.76德國8.2若依照這樣的一個平均我們是最低所以也不是現在外傳說哇"},{"start":205.436,"end":233.34,"text":"台灣的工業電價很貴不是吧因為依照這樣的一個標準是錯的沒錯即使我們的當中我們對於對於工業的部分其實漲了兩次嘛對對不對漲了兩次是漲了兩次之後目前還是在工業的平均用電是比較低的是那我們現在有這麼大的一個缺口我們為什麼不爭取政府的補助跟補貼有有我們"},{"start":234.12,"end":249.642,"text":"因為這是非戰制罪啊!因為這是惡巫啊!惡巫的戰爭造成全世界所有燃料一個飛漲嘛!所以這樣的一個前提之下我們當然應該要由政府來協助啊!"},{"start":250.583,"end":251.543,"text":"對整個台灣的通膨對民生的影響太大所以我們的確實台電呢"},{"start":279.07,"end":306.169,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":306.69,"end":320.082,"text":"那這樣的一個傳言那我們為什麼沒有辦法用補貼的部分在像之前在往我們的民生用電來做補貼直接政府編列預算來補貼我們的民生用電謝謝委員"},{"start":322.003,"end":327.506,"text":"對於這一個部分主要是我剛才報告也有講我們在125度以下的目前的電價只有1.6塊1.6那1.6跟我們現在電的成本是4.17其實差距是非常非常的大那也就是說這樣的情形其實是一個乖離的太多的情形"},{"start":343.455,"end":345.818,"text":"但是我們如果在電價審議會調漲的時候我們仍舊會照顧這個小的用電戶等等 這個的大原則我們還是會注意這個用電戶小的用電戶這個比例太高啦"},{"start":359.909,"end":387.227,"text":"雖然如果依照我們用電是2比2比6嘛是不是就是說我們的一般住戶大概是兩層然後小店鋪是兩層然後我們的企業工業用電是六層可是如果依照平均他才佔了兩層我們如果在政府的補貼機制往我們的這些一般的民生用電的話我覺得這是OK的啊"},{"start":388.628,"end":391.911,"text":"這個部分我們一定會做考量那所以過往在這個家庭的住宅用電部分我們確實就會分這個急劇越高的那調漲比較多急劇越低調漲少甚至有動漲沒有錯"},{"start":404.763,"end":421.756,"text":"但是這個整個的部分的代言者我們仍就會提到這個審議會裡面去審查部長我覺得我們既然如果有要考慮到我們要政府編列預算要去做這樣的一個所謂的電的虧損補貼那麼我們就應該focus在我們的民生這個區塊"},{"start":428.021,"end":428.301,"text":"是!"},{"start":428.301,"end":428.321,"text":"是!"},{"start":444.167,"end":464.521,"text":"我覺得這個都是層層的關卡我們一定要思考到而且現在媒體我們現在因為審議委員會還沒召開我們現在都從媒體可是媒體一宣布出來其實大家都已經慾其心理了有些可能這個房東就開始說哇未來我的固定這個電價這個調漲會把你做一個調整欸這個"},{"start":469.184,"end":486.94,"text":"我們的這些租客又開始擔心了所以我們要跟大家說的是到底現在所有媒體都說有可能漲5%、漲10%在民生用電那到底這個5%、10%在我們如果120度以下還有121因為現在都媒體嘛媒體說可能330度以下"},{"start":494.087,"end":510.196,"text":"﹗"},{"start":510.276,"end":510.716,"text":"好,謝謝委員"},{"start":540.796,"end":548.34,"text":"講得沸沸揚揚有5%有10%5%你說的有可能一戶你說的是一戶一戶120度一個月有可能漲了9塊錢然後121到330度漲了34塊對就是用最高的330度來賺的吧都是滿就是以我用電量到120度跟用電量到330度是不是所以其實"},{"start":571.072,"end":591.617,"text":"這種5%、10%跟這個所謂實質到底漲了多少我覺得現在媒體實在是太多版本了這種太多版本引發大家都有預期心理甚至是很多的房東就已經開始說我現在要針對固定費率要調喔然後就是再往上攀升這個我覺得這個對於現在都是傷"},{"start":593.817,"end":621.349,"text":"所以我還是認為我們政府補貼這個非戰之罪因為是惡霧戰爭全世界所有的燃料都在飛漲兩倍欸兩倍如果是這樣的話我們補貼就要從民生民生開始嘛民生的部分我們一定要在這個區塊給人民有感這個部分我拜託我們的部長一定要非常把這個關鍵抓住好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":626.766,"end":627.671,"text":"謝謝!"}]}}}}