{"id":149450,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149450","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbecbb2ab3a7a4d8d31dc62c46c87ca327ff8ba9b0039caa7a6a584b8aae4e4ec475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:18:52 - 09:29:10","影片長度":"00:10:18","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、中央健康保險署、食品藥物管理署就「健保藥價調整，藥廠停產慢性病用藥之因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-4"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":618,"end_time":"2024-03-07T09:29:10+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T09:18:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":185,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時19分）先邀請部長跟食藥署署長。"],["主席：請部長跟署長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：早安，大家好。今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題，因為早上家長群組已經爆了，相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了，食藥署告訴我們大家，目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題，不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友，教育局已經說3個月，各位覺得3個月的時間夠嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，其實蘇丹紅這件事情的本質是辣椒粉，辣椒粉在國內的話，國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的，所以我沒有辦法一下子把所有的辣椒粉統統禁掉，這不可能……"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂，所以是看飲食……"],["薛部長瑞元：而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是占全部的80%，最近有問題的這21家占了50%以上，所以就必須要很細緻地去查……"],["陳委員菁徽：還有5家還沒查到嘛，還沒查完啦！"],["薛部長瑞元：我們還是繼續往下查，這個是必須要這樣做，因為必須要確定它合格跟不合格，不合格當然就不准上市，要把它封存，但是合格的還是要讓它……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以署長覺得3個月夠嗎？我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎？"],["吳署長秀梅：我們會努力在這段時間完成。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，對於引起軒然大波，署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係，因為我們都努力、盡力在做這個事情，當然，有不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正。"],["陳委員菁徽：人力不足，好，瞭解、瞭解。","接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭姿委員問到的，其實今天在這邊跟部長面對面真的很難過，因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學、朋友，大家都知道問題在哪裡，根本不需要講這麼多，不管是缺藥、五大皆空，我們健保就一碗飯，今天兒科的人吃不飽，你就給兒科多吃一點，別科的人餓得要死；現在覺得醫生都好餓喔，所以砍到藥價，然後藥廠吃不飽；再來就是護理師吃不飽，就一樣啊，我跟陳昭姿委員的想法一樣，這是挖東牆補西牆，但是我們三個人其實都完全知道問題在哪裡，請問您對於這個有解方嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：基本上這是一個必然會存在的現象，因為如果我們健保收取的保費就是固定那一些的話，這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象出來，現在只是說哪一個部分要讓它比較合理，而不是說一定是要把它砍下來。所以剛剛陳昭姿委員在問的時候，我不太同意的地方就是這樣，因為你如果單從藥的這件事情去看的話，就會以偏概全。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以今天護病比缺護理師，想要招收護理師，又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費，其實這些全部都是環環相扣的，您覺得呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：漲掛號費是另外一件事情。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。"],["薛部長瑞元：那是另外一件事情。"],["陳委員菁徽：我相信這個問題，所有人、所有記者都已經問過部長了，你覺得我們113年、112年的目標，你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少？因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的，因為GDP會高會低，不是永遠都是往上走的。所以一般來講，用GDP只是一個參考的指標，如果說我們沒有一個面向來看，就是說以一個目標來做處理的話，我們當然是逐步地能夠上漲，我們希望未來的三、四年能夠拉到8%啦！"],["陳委員菁徽：你想拉到8%？OK，我們看一下，臺灣人是非常非常倚重健保，我們跟其他國家不一樣，其他國家也許一個收入以上一定需要商保，你看我們臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%，表示說不管你說6%、還是7%、還是8%，很多都是大家自掏腰包、自費出來去擋這個數據，但話說回來，世界上先進的國家不是10%就是12%，然後我們已經說了我們要朝這個目標邁進N年了，已經許多人用腳投票，不管是從內外婦兒科到其他科別，很多臺灣的護理師到國外去當護士啊，都是因為源頭沒有解決啊！你對這個3.9%有印象嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我印象中現在應該不只3.9%，應該不只……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我們其實不及格，只是在比45分還是50分，我們已經從45分……"],["薛部長瑞元：不能這樣講，因為每一個國家的制度不一樣，像英國這種公益系統，它就幾乎百分之百都是公部門啊！"],["陳委員菁徽：這個是部長您說的，你說這個6.6%太低了，剛剛陳昭姿有說，你後來把它加一加變成7.5%嘛，然後預計可以到8%。你說會研擬相關政策，你要再把數字調一調，請問你要用什麼方法調一調？你說目前計算方式有差異，所以我們要加上……"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話，因為我們也正在跟主計總處這邊在做一個調整。另外的話，今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去，希望跟他們的數據來源是可比較性的，能夠比較一致的，不然以前的話是……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您預計要調整到剛剛說的那個7.5%嘛，然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策，已經過完年了，你的相關政策就是要成立一個訪問團？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，我們要先跟OECD，因為現在大家在用的都是以OECD的標準來做比較，但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係，所以它所取用的data來源是什麼樣子我們並不清楚，所以我們必須要跟它能夠接軌，接軌才知道我們提供的資料跟他們的資料……"],["陳委員菁徽：是，我們還是要回歸一下正題。既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥，部長會覺得這樣的數據呈現是真實的嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個通報……"],["陳委員菁徽：我相信你也有很多基層的朋友嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個沒有什麼理由，因為如果對一般人來講的話，可能是一個比較困難去處理……"],["陳委員菁徽：沒有、沒有！"],["薛部長瑞元：但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子的話。"],["陳委員菁徽：我有一些藥已經長期開不出來了、放棄了，第一，這個平台告訴你有什麼替代藥，這個我們應該都知道，我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥。第二，我們告訴了這個平台以後，這個平台就只是公開徵求願意供應的廠商，大家看一下，這個頁面上有這麼多廠商，但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥，那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：這就是有缺的，有缺的我們就會公開徵求，大部分都已經徵求得到了，現在只有一個藥，這個藥是屬於核醫的診斷用藥，只有這個目前還缺，但是在3月過後的話，核研所就可以來恢復供應。"],["陳委員菁徽：沒關係，我只剩2分鐘，最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣，我們看到醫院因為收入不穩定，不知道今年的點數是多少，而藥價差對它來說是最穩定的，所以就簽合約囤藥，因此你們都有一個假象，我們沒有缺藥，因為藥就在大醫院啊，就是剛講到的醫學中心、區域醫院啊，那健保調整藥價、點值下降，受到影響的是這張圖表最左邊、最可憐的基層診所、基層藥局還有一般民眾，大家現在面臨的情況是他領不到藥，也許掛號費又調整了，他可能要打電話打個十幾、二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看診，因為他也不知道，也沒有公告。最後醫師給他開了一個藥，他必須要長途跋涉，也許要到醫學中心去領，所以部長，這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：基層的診所、藥局如果缺藥的話，其實他們應該要做通報，因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理，沒有通報我們怎麼會知道，全國有幾十萬家……"],["陳委員菁徽：他們已經自求多福了，你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥……"],["薛部長瑞元：為了自求多福，所以要通報啊！不然你自己又沒有能力來處理，跟媒體講有什麼用，媒體又不能幫你調藥。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服，所以我們就先這樣子。謝謝部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝、謝謝。"],["主席：好，請部長多喝水，你看起來今天好像身體微恙。","謝謝陳菁徽委員。","接下來請林月琴委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-4","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林德福","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","李彥秀","林淑芬","黃健豪","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","林憶君","劉建國","陳瑩","楊曜","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、中央健康保險署、食品藥物管理署就「健保藥價調整，藥廠停產慢性病用\n藥之因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130901_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"149450","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149450","tool":"pyannote","id":"149450-pyannote"},"job_id":"52u9WWmOCJEYrf5O","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:00:32,800\n先邀請部長跟小署署長好請部長跟署長午安好早安大家好今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題啊因為早上家長群組已經爆了\n\n2\n00:00:34,197 --> 00:00:55,018\n這個相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了食藥署告訴我們大家說目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友教育局已經說三個月所以各位覺得三個月這樣子的時間夠嗎\n\n3\n00:00:57,319 --> 00:01:19,545\n跟委員報告,蘇丹紅這件事情其實是,它的本質是辣椒粉。辣椒粉因為在國內的話,國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的。所以我沒有辦法說一下子把所有的辣椒粉通通禁掉,是不可能。而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是佔全部的80%。\n\n4\n00:01:21,595 --> 00:01:34,065\n最近這幾家有問題的21家它佔了50%以上所以就必須要很細緻的去查還有5家還沒查到嘛還沒查完啊我們都還是繼續往下查\n\n5\n00:01:36,647 --> 00:01:59,325\n所以這個是必須要這樣做,因為你必須要確定它合格跟不合格,不合格當然就不准上市把它封存,但是合格你還是要讓它出所以署長會覺得3個月夠嗎?我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎?可以,我們會努力在這段時間完成好,那引起軒然大波,署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:01,148 --> 00:02:21,763\n我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係,因為我們都努力,盡力在做這事情,那當然有這個不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正人力不足,好,了解了解接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭之委員問到的,其實今天在這邊跟,署長可以結束了\n\n7\n00:02:22,503 --> 00:02:51,016\n今天跟部長在這邊面對面真的很難過因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學朋友大家都知道問題在哪裡根本不需要講這麼多不管是缺藥五大皆空我們健保就一碗飯你今天兒科的人吃不飽你就給兒科多吃一點別科的人餓得要死現在覺得醫生都好餓喔所以\n\n8\n00:02:51,636 --> 00:02:51,936\n陳菁徽議員\n\n9\n00:03:13,032 --> 00:03:35,828\n基本上這是一個必然會存在的一個現象因為如果我們健保收取的這個保費就是固定那一些的話那這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象會出來那現在只是說哪一個部分的話是要讓它比較合理而不是說一定是要把它砍下來\n\n10\n00:03:36,969 --> 00:04:04,997\n那所以剛剛陳教授委員在問的時候我不太同意的地方就是這樣因為你如果單從藥這一件事情去看的話就會以偏看前所以你今天護病比、缺護理師、想要招收護理師又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費其實這些全部都是環環相扣的您覺得呢?漲掛號費是另外一件事情那是另外一件事情我相信這個問題\n\n11\n00:04:06,597 --> 00:04:22,457\n所有記者都已經問過部長了啦你覺得我們113年、112年的目標你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少嗎?因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛\n\n12\n00:04:23,378 --> 00:04:49,017\n我跟委員報告那如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的因為GDP會高會低那不是永遠都是往上走的那所以一般來講用GDP那只是一個參考的指標那如果說我們有沒有一個面向來看的話就是一個目標來做處理的話我們當然是逐步的能夠上漲那我們希望說未來的三四年能夠拉到8%\n\n13\n00:04:51,218 --> 00:04:55,622\n臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%表示說我們這個不管你說6還是7還是8很多都是大家自掏腰包自費出來\n\n14\n00:05:15,686 --> 00:05:16,387\n你對這個3.9有印象嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:43,839 --> 00:06:10,684\n我的印象中現在應該不止3年9所以我們其實不及格只是在比45分還是50分對我們已經從45因為每一個國家的這個制度不一樣你說像英國這種公益系統他就擺幾乎100%都是公部門的這個是部長您說的你說這個6.6太低了剛剛陳教授有說你後來把它加一加變成7.5然後預計可以到8\n\n16\n00:06:13,385 --> 00:06:13,425\n陳菁徽\n\n17\n00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:46,668\n這部分的話因為我們也正在跟主席總署這邊來做一個調整那另外的話在今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去希望就是說跟他們的這個數據的來源就是說是可比較性的能夠比較一致的以前的話是\n\n18\n00:06:48,408 --> 00:07:01,245\n您預計要調整到就剛那個7.5嘛然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策過年已經過完年的你的相關政策是就是要成立一個訪問團\n\n19\n00:07:03,488 --> 00:07:26,958\n對,我們要先跟OECD因為現在大家在用的都是OECD的這個比較但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係啦所以他所取用的這個data的來源是什麼樣子的話我們並不清楚所以我們必須要跟他能夠接軌接軌才知道我們提供的資料是,我們還是要回歸一下正題對,部長會覺得既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥部長會覺得這樣子的數據呈現是真實的嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:34,231 --> 00:07:40,514\n相信也有很多基層的朋友嘛為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台這沒有什麼理由因為這個如果對一般人來講的話可能他是一個比較困難去處理但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子我有一些藥我已經長期開不出來了放棄了第一\n\n21\n00:08:01,584 --> 00:08:24,014\n這個平台他告訴你有什麼替代藥這個我們應該都知道我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥第二我們告訴了這個平台以後呢這個平台就是公開徵求願意供應的廠商大家看這個這個頁面上有這麼多廠商但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢\n\n22\n00:08:24,654 --> 00:08:44,106\n這就有缺的,有缺的我們就會公開徵求,那大部分都已經徵求的到了,那現在只有一個藥,這個藥是屬於合一的這個診斷用藥,所以只有這個目前還缺,但是在3月過後的話,合原所都就可以來恢復來供應。\n\n23\n00:08:45,720 --> 00:09:13,111\n最後沒關係我只剩2分鐘最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣啊我們看醫院他因為收入不穩定嘛他不知道今年的點數是多少藥價差對他來說是最穩定的所以他就簽合約囤藥因此你們都有一個假象我們沒有缺藥因為藥就在大醫院啊就是剛講到的醫學中心區醫院啊\n\n24\n00:09:13,931 --> 00:09:34,532\n那健保調整藥價點值下降所以影響的是最左邊最可憐的基層的診所基層的藥局還有一般民眾大家現在他領不到藥好也許關奧菲又調整了他可能要打電話打個十幾二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看因為他也不知道也沒有公告\n\n25\n00:09:35,473 --> 00:09:44,306\n然後最後呢他開了一個藥他必須要長途跋涉也許到醫學中心去領所以部長這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊\n\n26\n00:09:46,423 --> 00:10:12,771\n這個基層的診所藥局的話的缺藥的話其實他們應該要做通報因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理沒有通報我們怎麼會知道那全國有幾萬家他們已經自求多福了你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥為了要自求多福所以要通報啊不然你自己又沒有能力來處理那你跟媒體講有什麼用媒體又不能幫你調藥今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服所以我們就先這樣子謝謝部長謝謝謝謝\n\n27\n00:10:16,913 --> 00:10:17,737\n請部長多喝水\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12581\t32800\t先邀請部長跟小署署長好 請部長跟署長午安好早安大家好今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題啊因為早上家長群組已經爆了\n34197\t55018\t這個相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了食藥署告訴我們大家說目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友教育局已經說三個月所以各位覺得三個月這樣子的時間夠嗎\n57319\t79545\t跟委員報告,蘇丹紅這件事情其實是,它的本質是辣椒粉。辣椒粉因為在國內的話,國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的。所以我沒有辦法說一下子把所有的辣椒粉通通禁掉,是不可能。而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是佔全部的80%。\n81595\t94065\t最近這幾家有問題的21家它佔了50%以上所以就必須要很細緻的去查還有5家還沒查到嘛還沒查完啊我們都還是繼續往下查\n96647\t119325\t所以這個是必須要這樣做,因為你必須要確定它合格跟不合格,不合格當然就不准上市把它封存,但是合格你還是要讓它出所以署長會覺得3個月夠嗎?我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎?可以,我們會努力在這段時間完成好,那引起軒然大波,署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎?\n121148\t141763\t我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係,因為我們都努力,盡力在做這事情,那當然有這個不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正人力不足,好,了解了解接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭之委員問到的,其實今天在這邊跟,署長可以結束了\n142503\t171016\t今天跟部長在這邊面對面真的很難過因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學朋友大家都知道問題在哪裡根本不需要講這麼多不管是缺藥五大皆空我們健保就一碗飯你今天兒科的人吃不飽你就給兒科多吃一點別科的人餓得要死現在覺得醫生都好餓喔所以\n171636\t171936\t陳菁徽議員\n193032\t215828\t基本上這是一個必然會存在的一個現象因為如果我們健保收取的這個保費就是固定那一些的話那這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象會出來那現在只是說哪一個部分的話是要讓它比較合理而不是說一定是要把它砍下來\n216969\t244997\t那所以剛剛陳教授委員在問的時候我不太同意的地方就是這樣因為你如果單從藥這一件事情去看的話就會以偏看前所以你今天護病比、缺護理師、想要招收護理師又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費其實這些全部都是環環相扣的您覺得呢?漲掛號費是另外一件事情那是另外一件事情我相信這個問題\n246597\t262457\t所有記者都已經問過部長了啦你覺得我們113年、112年的目標你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少嗎?因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛\n263378\t289017\t我跟委員報告那如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的因為GDP會高會低那不是永遠都是往上走的那所以一般來講用GDP那只是一個參考的指標那如果說我們有沒有一個面向來看的話就是一個目標來做處理的話我們當然是逐步的能夠上漲那我們希望說未來的三四年能夠拉到8%\n291218\t295622\t臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%表示說我們這個不管你說6還是7還是8很多都是大家自掏腰包自費出來\n315686\t316387\t你對這個3.9有印象嗎?\n343839\t370684\t我的印象中現在應該不止3年9所以我們其實不及格只是在比45分還是50分對我們已經從45因為每一個國家的這個制度不一樣你說像英國這種公益系統他就擺幾乎100%都是公部門的這個是部長您說的你說這個6.6太低了剛剛陳教授有說你後來把它加一加變成7.5然後預計可以到8\n373385\t373425\t陳菁徽\n384639\t406668\t這部分的話因為我們也正在跟主席總署這邊來做一個調整那另外的話在今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去希望就是說跟他們的這個數據的來源就是說是可比較性的能夠比較一致的以前的話是\n408408\t421245\t您預計要調整到就剛那個7.5嘛然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策過年已經過完年的你的相關政策是就是要成立一個訪問團\n423488\t446958\t對,我們要先跟OECD因為現在大家在用的都是OECD的這個比較但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係啦所以他所取用的這個data的來源是什麼樣子的話我們並不清楚所以我們必須要跟他能夠接軌接軌才知道我們提供的資料是,我們還是要回歸一下正題對,部長會覺得既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥部長會覺得這樣子的數據呈現是真實的嗎?\n454231\t460514\t相信也有很多基層的朋友嘛為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台這沒有什麼理由因為這個如果對一般人來講的話可能他是一個比較困難去處理但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子我有一些藥我已經長期開不出來了放棄了第一\n481584\t504014\t這個平台他告訴你有什麼替代藥這個我們應該都知道我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥第二我們告訴了這個平台以後呢這個平台就是公開徵求願意供應的廠商大家看這個這個頁面上有這麼多廠商但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢\n504654\t524106\t這就有缺的,有缺的我們就會公開徵求,那大部分都已經徵求的到了,那現在只有一個藥,這個藥是屬於合一的這個診斷用藥,所以只有這個目前還缺,但是在3月過後的話,合原所都就可以來恢復來供應。\n525720\t553111\t最後沒關係我只剩2分鐘最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣啊我們看醫院他因為收入不穩定嘛他不知道今年的點數是多少藥價差對他來說是最穩定的所以他就簽合約囤藥因此你們都有一個假象我們沒有缺藥因為藥就在大醫院啊就是剛講到的醫學中心區醫院啊\n553931\t574532\t那健保調整藥價點值下降所以影響的是最左邊最可憐的基層的診所基層的藥局還有一般民眾大家現在他領不到藥好也許關奧菲又調整了他可能要打電話打個十幾二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看因為他也不知道也沒有公告\n575473\t584306\t然後最後呢他開了一個藥他必須要長途跋涉也許到醫學中心去領所以部長這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊\n586423\t612771\t這個基層的診所藥局的話的缺藥的話其實他們應該要做通報因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理沒有通報我們怎麼會知道那全國有幾萬家 他們已經自求多福了你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥 為了要自求多福所以要通報啊不然你自己又沒有能力來處理那你跟媒體講有什麼用 媒體又不能幫你調藥今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服所以我們就先這樣子 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝\n616913\t617737\t請部長多喝水\n","txt":"先邀請部長跟小署署長好 請部長跟署長午安好早安大家好今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題啊因為早上家長群組已經爆了\n這個相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了食藥署告訴我們大家說目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友教育局已經說三個月所以各位覺得三個月這樣子的時間夠嗎\n跟委員報告,蘇丹紅這件事情其實是,它的本質是辣椒粉。辣椒粉因為在國內的話,國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的。所以我沒有辦法說一下子把所有的辣椒粉通通禁掉,是不可能。而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是佔全部的80%。\n最近這幾家有問題的21家它佔了50%以上所以就必須要很細緻的去查還有5家還沒查到嘛還沒查完啊我們都還是繼續往下查\n所以這個是必須要這樣做,因為你必須要確定它合格跟不合格,不合格當然就不准上市把它封存,但是合格你還是要讓它出所以署長會覺得3個月夠嗎?我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎?可以,我們會努力在這段時間完成好,那引起軒然大波,署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎?\n我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係,因為我們都努力,盡力在做這事情,那當然有這個不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正人力不足,好,了解了解接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭之委員問到的,其實今天在這邊跟,署長可以結束了\n今天跟部長在這邊面對面真的很難過因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學朋友大家都知道問題在哪裡根本不需要講這麼多不管是缺藥五大皆空我們健保就一碗飯你今天兒科的人吃不飽你就給兒科多吃一點別科的人餓得要死現在覺得醫生都好餓喔所以\n陳菁徽議員\n基本上這是一個必然會存在的一個現象因為如果我們健保收取的這個保費就是固定那一些的話那這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象會出來那現在只是說哪一個部分的話是要讓它比較合理而不是說一定是要把它砍下來\n那所以剛剛陳教授委員在問的時候我不太同意的地方就是這樣因為你如果單從藥這一件事情去看的話就會以偏看前所以你今天護病比、缺護理師、想要招收護理師又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費其實這些全部都是環環相扣的您覺得呢?漲掛號費是另外一件事情那是另外一件事情我相信這個問題\n所有記者都已經問過部長了啦你覺得我們113年、112年的目標你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少嗎?因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛\n我跟委員報告那如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的因為GDP會高會低那不是永遠都是往上走的那所以一般來講用GDP那只是一個參考的指標那如果說我們有沒有一個面向來看的話就是一個目標來做處理的話我們當然是逐步的能夠上漲那我們希望說未來的三四年能夠拉到8%\n臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%表示說我們這個不管你說6還是7還是8很多都是大家自掏腰包自費出來\n你對這個3.9有印象嗎?\n我的印象中現在應該不止3年9所以我們其實不及格只是在比45分還是50分對我們已經從45因為每一個國家的這個制度不一樣你說像英國這種公益系統他就擺幾乎100%都是公部門的這個是部長您說的你說這個6.6太低了剛剛陳教授有說你後來把它加一加變成7.5然後預計可以到8\n陳菁徽\n這部分的話因為我們也正在跟主席總署這邊來做一個調整那另外的話在今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去希望就是說跟他們的這個數據的來源就是說是可比較性的能夠比較一致的以前的話是\n您預計要調整到就剛那個7.5嘛然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策過年已經過完年的你的相關政策是就是要成立一個訪問團\n對,我們要先跟OECD因為現在大家在用的都是OECD的這個比較但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係啦所以他所取用的這個data的來源是什麼樣子的話我們並不清楚所以我們必須要跟他能夠接軌接軌才知道我們提供的資料是,我們還是要回歸一下正題對,部長會覺得既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥部長會覺得這樣子的數據呈現是真實的嗎?\n相信也有很多基層的朋友嘛為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台這沒有什麼理由因為這個如果對一般人來講的話可能他是一個比較困難去處理但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子我有一些藥我已經長期開不出來了放棄了第一\n這個平台他告訴你有什麼替代藥這個我們應該都知道我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥第二我們告訴了這個平台以後呢這個平台就是公開徵求願意供應的廠商大家看這個這個頁面上有這麼多廠商但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢\n這就有缺的,有缺的我們就會公開徵求,那大部分都已經徵求的到了,那現在只有一個藥,這個藥是屬於合一的這個診斷用藥,所以只有這個目前還缺,但是在3月過後的話,合原所都就可以來恢復來供應。\n最後沒關係我只剩2分鐘最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣啊我們看醫院他因為收入不穩定嘛他不知道今年的點數是多少藥價差對他來說是最穩定的所以他就簽合約囤藥因此你們都有一個假象我們沒有缺藥因為藥就在大醫院啊就是剛講到的醫學中心區醫院啊\n那健保調整藥價點值下降所以影響的是最左邊最可憐的基層的診所基層的藥局還有一般民眾大家現在他領不到藥好也許關奧菲又調整了他可能要打電話打個十幾二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看因為他也不知道也沒有公告\n然後最後呢他開了一個藥他必須要長途跋涉也許到醫學中心去領所以部長這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊\n這個基層的診所藥局的話的缺藥的話其實他們應該要做通報因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理沒有通報我們怎麼會知道那全國有幾萬家 他們已經自求多福了你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥 為了要自求多福所以要通報啊不然你自己又沒有能力來處理那你跟媒體講有什麼用 媒體又不能幫你調藥今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服所以我們就先這樣子 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝\n請部長多喝水\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.581 --> 00:32.800\n先邀請部長跟小署署長好請部長跟署長午安好早安大家好今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題啊因為早上家長群組已經爆了\n\n00:34.197 --> 00:55.018\n這個相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了食藥署告訴我們大家說目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友教育局已經說三個月所以各位覺得三個月這樣子的時間夠嗎\n\n00:57.319 --> 01:19.545\n跟委員報告,蘇丹紅這件事情其實是,它的本質是辣椒粉。辣椒粉因為在國內的話,國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的。所以我沒有辦法說一下子把所有的辣椒粉通通禁掉,是不可能。而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是佔全部的80%。\n\n01:21.595 --> 01:34.065\n最近這幾家有問題的21家它佔了50%以上所以就必須要很細緻的去查還有5家還沒查到嘛還沒查完啊我們都還是繼續往下查\n\n01:36.647 --> 01:59.325\n所以這個是必須要這樣做,因為你必須要確定它合格跟不合格,不合格當然就不准上市把它封存,但是合格你還是要讓它出所以署長會覺得3個月夠嗎?我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎?可以,我們會努力在這段時間完成好,那引起軒然大波,署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎?\n\n02:01.148 --> 02:21.763\n我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係,因為我們都努力,盡力在做這事情,那當然有這個不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正人力不足,好,了解了解接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭之委員問到的,其實今天在這邊跟,署長可以結束了\n\n02:22.503 --> 02:51.016\n今天跟部長在這邊面對面真的很難過因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學朋友大家都知道問題在哪裡根本不需要講這麼多不管是缺藥五大皆空我們健保就一碗飯你今天兒科的人吃不飽你就給兒科多吃一點別科的人餓得要死現在覺得醫生都好餓喔所以\n\n02:51.636 --> 02:51.936\n陳菁徽議員\n\n03:13.032 --> 03:35.828\n基本上這是一個必然會存在的一個現象因為如果我們健保收取的這個保費就是固定那一些的話那這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象會出來那現在只是說哪一個部分的話是要讓它比較合理而不是說一定是要把它砍下來\n\n03:36.969 --> 04:04.997\n那所以剛剛陳教授委員在問的時候我不太同意的地方就是這樣因為你如果單從藥這一件事情去看的話就會以偏看前所以你今天護病比、缺護理師、想要招收護理師又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費其實這些全部都是環環相扣的您覺得呢?漲掛號費是另外一件事情那是另外一件事情我相信這個問題\n\n04:06.597 --> 04:22.457\n所有記者都已經問過部長了啦你覺得我們113年、112年的目標你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少嗎?因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛\n\n04:23.378 --> 04:49.017\n我跟委員報告那如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的因為GDP會高會低那不是永遠都是往上走的那所以一般來講用GDP那只是一個參考的指標那如果說我們有沒有一個面向來看的話就是一個目標來做處理的話我們當然是逐步的能夠上漲那我們希望說未來的三四年能夠拉到8%\n\n04:51.218 --> 04:55.622\n臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%表示說我們這個不管你說6還是7還是8很多都是大家自掏腰包自費出來\n\n05:15.686 --> 05:16.387\n你對這個3.9有印象嗎?\n\n05:43.839 --> 06:10.684\n我的印象中現在應該不止3年9所以我們其實不及格只是在比45分還是50分對我們已經從45因為每一個國家的這個制度不一樣你說像英國這種公益系統他就擺幾乎100%都是公部門的這個是部長您說的你說這個6.6太低了剛剛陳教授有說你後來把它加一加變成7.5然後預計可以到8\n\n06:13.385 --> 06:13.425\n陳菁徽\n\n06:24.639 --> 06:46.668\n這部分的話因為我們也正在跟主席總署這邊來做一個調整那另外的話在今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去希望就是說跟他們的這個數據的來源就是說是可比較性的能夠比較一致的以前的話是\n\n06:48.408 --> 07:01.245\n您預計要調整到就剛那個7.5嘛然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策過年已經過完年的你的相關政策是就是要成立一個訪問團\n\n07:03.488 --> 07:26.958\n對,我們要先跟OECD因為現在大家在用的都是OECD的這個比較但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係啦所以他所取用的這個data的來源是什麼樣子的話我們並不清楚所以我們必須要跟他能夠接軌接軌才知道我們提供的資料是,我們還是要回歸一下正題對,部長會覺得既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥部長會覺得這樣子的數據呈現是真實的嗎?\n\n07:34.231 --> 07:40.514\n相信也有很多基層的朋友嘛為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台這沒有什麼理由因為這個如果對一般人來講的話可能他是一個比較困難去處理但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子我有一些藥我已經長期開不出來了放棄了第一\n\n08:01.584 --> 08:24.014\n這個平台他告訴你有什麼替代藥這個我們應該都知道我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥第二我們告訴了這個平台以後呢這個平台就是公開徵求願意供應的廠商大家看這個這個頁面上有這麼多廠商但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢\n\n08:24.654 --> 08:44.106\n這就有缺的,有缺的我們就會公開徵求,那大部分都已經徵求的到了,那現在只有一個藥,這個藥是屬於合一的這個診斷用藥,所以只有這個目前還缺,但是在3月過後的話,合原所都就可以來恢復來供應。\n\n08:45.720 --> 09:13.111\n最後沒關係我只剩2分鐘最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣啊我們看醫院他因為收入不穩定嘛他不知道今年的點數是多少藥價差對他來說是最穩定的所以他就簽合約囤藥因此你們都有一個假象我們沒有缺藥因為藥就在大醫院啊就是剛講到的醫學中心區醫院啊\n\n09:13.931 --> 09:34.532\n那健保調整藥價點值下降所以影響的是最左邊最可憐的基層的診所基層的藥局還有一般民眾大家現在他領不到藥好也許關奧菲又調整了他可能要打電話打個十幾二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看因為他也不知道也沒有公告\n\n09:35.473 --> 09:44.306\n然後最後呢他開了一個藥他必須要長途跋涉也許到醫學中心去領所以部長這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊\n\n09:46.423 --> 10:12.771\n這個基層的診所藥局的話的缺藥的話其實他們應該要做通報因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理沒有通報我們怎麼會知道那全國有幾萬家他們已經自求多福了你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥為了要自求多福所以要通報啊不然你自己又沒有能力來處理那你跟媒體講有什麼用媒體又不能幫你調藥今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服所以我們就先這樣子謝謝部長謝謝謝謝\n\n10:16.913 --> 10:17.737\n請部長多喝水\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.581,"end":32.8,"text":"先邀請部長跟小署署長好 請部長跟署長午安好早安大家好今天先問一個全國家長都滿關心的議題啊因為早上家長群組已經爆了"},{"start":34.197,"end":55.018,"text":"這個相信大家早上都已經看到新聞了食藥署告訴我們大家說目前蘇丹紅的風暴不保證市場沒問題不保證市場沒問題變成我們的教育局在關心所有的小朋友教育局已經說三個月所以各位覺得三個月這樣子的時間夠嗎"},{"start":57.319,"end":79.545,"text":"跟委員報告,蘇丹紅這件事情其實是,它的本質是辣椒粉。辣椒粉因為在國內的話,國人吃辣的習慣是很普遍的。所以我沒有辦法說一下子把所有的辣椒粉通通禁掉,是不可能。而中國那邊進口的辣椒粉是佔全部的80%。"},{"start":81.595,"end":94.065,"text":"最近這幾家有問題的21家它佔了50%以上所以就必須要很細緻的去查還有5家還沒查到嘛還沒查完啊我們都還是繼續往下查"},{"start":96.647,"end":119.325,"text":"所以這個是必須要這樣做,因為你必須要確定它合格跟不合格,不合格當然就不准上市把它封存,但是合格你還是要讓它出所以署長會覺得3個月夠嗎?我們保護兒童3個月夠嗎?可以,我們會努力在這段時間完成好,那引起軒然大波,署長會覺得需要稍微跟大家道歉一下嗎?"},{"start":121.148,"end":141.763,"text":"我想這個跟道歉沒有什麼關係,因為我們都努力,盡力在做這事情,那當然有這個不完備的地方我們可以再來做修正人力不足,好,了解了解接下來我也滿關心剛剛陳昭之委員問到的,其實今天在這邊跟,署長可以結束了"},{"start":142.503,"end":171.016,"text":"今天跟部長在這邊面對面真的很難過因為我跟您跟石三個人長期有這麼多醫護同仁的同學朋友大家都知道問題在哪裡根本不需要講這麼多不管是缺藥五大皆空我們健保就一碗飯你今天兒科的人吃不飽你就給兒科多吃一點別科的人餓得要死現在覺得醫生都好餓喔所以"},{"start":171.636,"end":171.936,"text":"陳菁徽議員"},{"start":193.032,"end":215.828,"text":"基本上這是一個必然會存在的一個現象因為如果我們健保收取的這個保費就是固定那一些的話那這個不可避免一定會有互相排擠的現象會出來那現在只是說哪一個部分的話是要讓它比較合理而不是說一定是要把它砍下來"},{"start":216.969,"end":244.997,"text":"那所以剛剛陳教授委員在問的時候我不太同意的地方就是這樣因為你如果單從藥這一件事情去看的話就會以偏看前所以你今天護病比、缺護理師、想要招收護理師又突然突襲我們、突襲全國人民漲掛號費其實這些全部都是環環相扣的您覺得呢?漲掛號費是另外一件事情那是另外一件事情我相信這個問題"},{"start":246.597,"end":262.457,"text":"所有記者都已經問過部長了啦你覺得我們113年、112年的目標你會希望我們的醫療支出達到多少嗎?因為這件事看起來十幾年來就是6點多嘛"},{"start":263.378,"end":289.017,"text":"我跟委員報告那如果用GDP去算的話是有風險的因為GDP會高會低那不是永遠都是往上走的那所以一般來講用GDP那只是一個參考的指標那如果說我們有沒有一個面向來看的話就是一個目標來做處理的話我們當然是逐步的能夠上漲那我們希望說未來的三四年能夠拉到8%"},{"start":291.218,"end":295.622,"text":"臺灣公部門的醫療支出是3.9%表示說我們這個不管你說6還是7還是8很多都是大家自掏腰包自費出來"},{"start":315.686,"end":316.387,"text":"你對這個3.9有印象嗎?"},{"start":343.839,"end":370.684,"text":"我的印象中現在應該不止3年9所以我們其實不及格只是在比45分還是50分對我們已經從45因為每一個國家的這個制度不一樣你說像英國這種公益系統他就擺幾乎100%都是公部門的這個是部長您說的你說這個6.6太低了剛剛陳教授有說你後來把它加一加變成7.5然後預計可以到8"},{"start":373.385,"end":373.425,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":384.639,"end":406.668,"text":"這部分的話因為我們也正在跟主席總署這邊來做一個調整那另外的話在今年我們會派一個訪問團到OECD那邊去希望就是說跟他們的這個數據的來源就是說是可比較性的能夠比較一致的以前的話是"},{"start":408.408,"end":421.245,"text":"您預計要調整到就剛那個7.5嘛然後你說年底前完成估算並會推出相關政策過年已經過完年的你的相關政策是就是要成立一個訪問團"},{"start":423.488,"end":446.958,"text":"對,我們要先跟OECD因為現在大家在用的都是OECD的這個比較但是OECD跟我們並沒有直接的關係啦所以他所取用的這個data的來源是什麼樣子的話我們並不清楚所以我們必須要跟他能夠接軌接軌才知道我們提供的資料是,我們還是要回歸一下正題對,部長會覺得既然我們今天要討論的是缺藥部長會覺得這樣子的數據呈現是真實的嗎?"},{"start":454.231,"end":460.514,"text":"相信也有很多基層的朋友嘛為什麼大家不願意用這個資訊平台這沒有什麼理由因為這個如果對一般人來講的話可能他是一個比較困難去處理但是你這個專業人員不能講這樣子我有一些藥我已經長期開不出來了放棄了第一"},{"start":481.584,"end":504.014,"text":"這個平台他告訴你有什麼替代藥這個我們應該都知道我們自己也知道有什麼替代藥第二我們告訴了這個平台以後呢這個平台就是公開徵求願意供應的廠商大家看這個這個頁面上有這麼多廠商但是你跟我們說沒有缺藥那何必要徵求這些供應的廠商呢"},{"start":504.654,"end":524.106,"text":"這就有缺的,有缺的我們就會公開徵求,那大部分都已經徵求的到了,那現在只有一個藥,這個藥是屬於合一的這個診斷用藥,所以只有這個目前還缺,但是在3月過後的話,合原所都就可以來恢復來供應。"},{"start":525.72,"end":553.111,"text":"最後沒關係我只剩2分鐘最後我提出來的疑問還是跟許多我們醫藥界的前輩一樣啊我們看醫院他因為收入不穩定嘛他不知道今年的點數是多少藥價差對他來說是最穩定的所以他就簽合約囤藥因此你們都有一個假象我們沒有缺藥因為藥就在大醫院啊就是剛講到的醫學中心區醫院啊"},{"start":553.931,"end":574.532,"text":"那健保調整藥價點值下降所以影響的是最左邊最可憐的基層的診所基層的藥局還有一般民眾大家現在他領不到藥好也許關奧菲又調整了他可能要打電話打個十幾二十通去看住家附近哪一家比較適合他看因為他也不知道也沒有公告"},{"start":575.473,"end":584.306,"text":"然後最後呢他開了一個藥他必須要長途跋涉也許到醫學中心去領所以部長這可能是未來你要面對的一個大衝擊"},{"start":586.423,"end":612.771,"text":"這個基層的診所藥局的話的缺藥的話其實他們應該要做通報因為通報我們就有辦法去做處理沒有通報我們怎麼會知道那全國有幾萬家 他們已經自求多福了你知道他們已經自己互相在換藥 為了要自求多福所以要通報啊不然你自己又沒有能力來處理那你跟媒體講有什麼用 媒體又不能幫你調藥今天你的喉嚨看起來不是很舒服所以我們就先這樣子 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":616.913,"end":617.737,"text":"請部長多喝水"}]}}}}