{"id":149454,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149454","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbeb834bdfcdd81aa4da2c0e3c4ee948455f8ba9b0039caa7a6e7b941279cec53335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:26:58 - 09:38:48","影片長度":"00:11:50","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-2"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":710,"end_time":"2024-03-07T09:38:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T09:26:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":104,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時27分）好，謝謝主席，請院長。"],["主席：請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：召委早。"],["柯委員志恩：是，你曾經告訴大家，你專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情──藝術行政跟博物館的專業，這是你畢生想做到的，你覺得目前為止，真的有把南北院都做到這樣的層次嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我還在努力之中。"],["柯委員志恩：好，還在努力當中，所以我們有很多東西可以好好檢討。誠如大家提到的，故宮是我們國家之寶，是一個世界級的博物館，它的管理當然非常重要。當然有很多事情都是在你上任之前做的，但是我們還是要瀏覽一下。過去陸續發生明清文物毀損，還爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流事件，這些都是用一筆一筆公帑保存下來的，結果外洩到淘寶販售，而且重要的是，這是民眾檢舉，請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎？目前為止進行到什麼程度？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，第一個是有關瓷器受損，我們已經完成修復，也完成調查報告，完成懲處，調查報告也分送監察院跟行政院。"],["柯委員志恩：好，院長，我只是要說，對於故宮的行政管理、資安，特別是文物的安全，你有辦法在這個地方向大家承諾未來不會發生嗎？我要提醒，剛剛我所說的事情，你們應該在一小時之內通報，但是你們違反資通安全管理辦法，九個月之後才向數位部報告。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，跟委員報告一下，媒體報導有10萬張圖檔外流，經過我們檢視，的確是那個同仁為了作業方便，把圖檔放到外部的區域，不是在內部、內網的工作清單。"],["柯委員志恩：好，你看，為了圖個方便，這就是故宮非常需要管理的。這時候還爆出你們的研究員可以遠端打卡、可以翹班、可以讓閒雜人等進來，你們是負責國寶安全的博物院，可是你們的行政卻像是烏龍院一樣。如果出勤紀錄可以偽造，你的資安不會有任何漏洞嗎？我想請問南院，你們要改進並追究行政責任，目前有懲處嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個同仁基本上我們也送人評會進行懲處。"],["柯委員志恩：好，如果有確實執行，你就把公文拿給我看一下，好不好？公文拿給我看一下。"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有問題。"],["柯委員志恩：在很多的狀況裡面，我們還是一一來看。我想美醜這個部分，每個人都各有論斷，身為民意代表，對於一些經費還是要提出自己的看法。南院這座大家認為非常漂亮的覽月橋，號稱全長80公尺，是採管樹狀的RC結構，要9,000萬，因為只有80公尺，所以你可以這樣算下來，1公尺大概就耗費了112萬5,000元。請問這樣的結構有經過南院總設計師姚仁喜先生的同意嗎？你專業的評估在什麼地方？我說的是專業評估。"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上這個部分來講，它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共工程採購的程序。"],["柯委員志恩：好的，院長，你都會用這個方式說喔。"],["蕭院長宗煌：另外，這個計畫是新故宮計畫裡面的一部分。"],["柯委員志恩：新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論，新故宮到底是不是華而不實？我馬上就可以討論到這一塊，只是以目前來說，你們說這個東西可以管中窺月，這個地方我去過，夜晚的確很漂亮，但是你不要忘記了，南院晚上也不開，好不好？我今天所要強調的一點是，目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術，而且把公共藝術當作是常設展，如果是這樣子的話，你反而把南院過去的常設，像是玉器展還有嘉義文史廳撤除，而且你現在把嘉義文史廳變成一個小小的媒體室，玉器根本就已經撤除掉了。","另外，我還要問一下，有關目前的策展人員，過去故宮很引以為豪的是，你們是非常專業的，本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當到策展員，可是南院教展科的人也可以辦，所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼實質的東西可以看，而且你們甚至還修改內規，讓應該要有研究員身分的人下來擔任行政高員。院長，這些事情你都有做一些討論跟瞭解嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想這個部分的話，我舉我在臺博館的例子，任何一個組室都要策展，教育推廣組會策教育推廣展，典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講，只要是研究職人員都要有策展的磨練。"],["柯委員志恩：專業是你們最重要的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["柯委員志恩：今天我們所討論的專業是還有把你的……"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為專業人員的職務也會有歷練，也會有調動，所以策展是作為研究人員學習的過程。"],["柯委員志恩：那你跟我解釋，為什麼沒有研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長？這個部分請跟我解釋一下，還有包括……"],["蕭院長宗煌：南院目前沒有副處長。"],["柯委員志恩：就是南院的高層，好不好？還有很重要的一個部分是，除了我剛剛所提到的，南院的兩棵松樹聽說一棵要花費相當於進口車的價錢，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個我不清楚。"],["柯委員志恩：我只是告訴大家，過去你們南院在種植任何植栽都是要符合本土的氣候，我只是認為南院應該投資的都是在你們的展覽跟教育，如果今天是一個藝術中心就算了，但是南院是故宮南院，它有它的基本的精神存在，所以不管是我剛剛所提出來的部分，還有過去你辦了非常多的活動，包括在外面給孩子玩沙等等，就是我剛剛說的，如果是一個育樂中心，那沒有問題，但今天是故宮南院，你去參觀那麼多國家的世界級博物館，請問有任何人在世界級的博物館外面做得出這麼多遊樂、休憩的地方嗎，院長？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為故宮園區的幅員廣大，除了正館之外，戶外園區的話，當然會有一些景觀，當初景觀規畫這些植栽的價錢基本上也都是評估後經過程序去完成的，因為不在我任內，所以這個部分我會再去瞭解。"],["柯委員志恩：不是，院長，我只是強調，要以博物館的專業來看，所以我們強調南院本館的主體性，如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心，外面的那些部分我沒有意見，但是南院的主體性你還是要好好地來保持住。","你剛剛提到新故宮計畫，我們就來看一下。目前為止故宮提出了建築修復再利用的計畫，可是在很多的會議當中，顯然大家有很多不同的意見，你看看。我想請問院長，1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會，很多人認為在這個說明會當中，有很多問題還是沒有釐清。過去我在第9屆的時候也提出這些計畫當中有很多不當之處，如果今天是漏水等等主館裡面的修復，我沒有意見，但是現在牽涉到的，我想院長應該看得很清楚，那時候大家所看到的就是故宮沒有所謂入口意象的問題，也不是必要的設施，而且這個玻璃入口亭的現代設計，其實引發了不同的爭議，我不曉得院長是不是曉得？目前大家的爭議完全是放在違反文資法第三十四條的解釋當中，院長可不可以說明？因為從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了，一個玻璃式的設計有沒有違反文資法裡面所提到的，它不能遮蔽主體的建築？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上，以文資法來講的話，的確有不得破壞古蹟、歷史建築，或是不能遮蔽其外貌或阻擋其通道這樣的規定，但是故宮的著眼點是再利用的部分、是活化的部分。剛剛有提到故宮沒有所謂入口意象的問題，但故宮的入口的確是有問題，因為全世界沒有一個博物館的入口是遊覽車開到門口。"],["柯委員志恩：你認為做一個這樣大的玻璃建築就會讓它的入口意象更清晰、更明顯嗎？這是你所認為的嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，建築設計……"],["柯委員志恩：它沒有遮蔽主體嘛！而且你們的建築師還說它具有可逆性的原則，這個是有……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，建築設計是一個實證科學，故宮當初從第一棟方塊形，然後變長方形、變ㄇ字形，然後總共經過了五次的改建，大家會認為故宮的動線很清楚嗎？就跟迷宮一樣，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：但是建一個玻璃建築物有沒有違反文資法？我們先不管它是不是符合一個所謂古老宮殿上裡面的傳統，一個古老的建築物，在前面遮了一個大的玻璃，你覺得這樣的處理就會讓你的明顯度有差異，是嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，基本上來講，故宮依照文資法的程序，會把它的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議，我們會尊重審議的結果，因為在……"],["柯委員志恩：好，院長，這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的，這是吳院長所定下來的，我最後只問你一個，你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來背書嗎？以你過去博物館的專業，以你對行政藝術的專業，我希望你好好地慎重考慮，目前還有很多的爭議，我希望你不要讓自己被批評成歷史建築物的其中一個殺手，這是本席在這邊要特別提醒的，因為在第九屆的時候……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想這個部分我們會審慎地來處理，在臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後，我們才會去進行這個工程。"],["柯委員志恩：審議通過，還有最重要的是，我祈求院長，你可以發揮你自己、期許你自己發揮你博物館的專業，給予故宮一個國家之寶，達成可以永遠永續的最大使命。"],["蕭院長宗煌：但是基本上故宮裡面的動線的確要重整，因為當初規劃故宮，從來都沒有想到將書畫完整呈現，它只是想說……"],["柯委員志恩：我完全同意，裡面有很多後續，但是我現在只跟你討論，你做了一個很大的玻璃門，入口處就完全可以符合你剛剛所提到的期望嗎？這才是本席剛剛所關注的重點。因為時間的關係，我希望有機會還能跟院長繼續就教。謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，這個部分我們會審慎來處理。"],["柯委員志恩：是，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝柯志恩委員。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：接下來我們請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-2","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","林宜瑾","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林倩綺","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","吳春城","范雲","陳冠廷"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130801_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"149454","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149454","tool":"pyannote","id":"149454-pyannote"},"job_id":"N5fC2jpm2kSOuuaW","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"start\": 693.508, \"end\": 693.668, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 693.668, \"end\": 693.769, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 693.769, \"end\": 693.869, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 693.869, \"end\": 693.889, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,584 --> 00:00:07,604\n蕭院長\n\n2\n00:00:17,448 --> 00:00:33,708\n院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎\n\n3\n00:00:35,754 --> 00:00:55,541\n我還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下\n\n4\n00:00:56,801 --> 00:01:03,064\n我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的毀損這個毀損還有爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度\n\n5\n00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:38,637\n好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告,完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院\n\n6\n00:01:41,345 --> 00:02:00,998\n院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告\n\n7\n00:02:04,727 --> 00:02:24,921\n所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的工作區域\n\n8\n00:02:25,762 --> 00:02:51,082\n您看為了圖的方便這就是故宮非常需要做管理的他這時候還報出來你們的研究院可以遠端打卡可以翹班可以讓閒雜人等進來你們負責是國保安全的博物院可是你們行政卻像是烏龍院一樣如果說出行的進入可以來做一個偽照那你的資安不會有任何的一個漏洞嗎那我想請問南院你們對這個成長改進的行政責任目前有達到懲處嗎\n\n9\n00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:15,668\n這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文拿來給我看一下然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越\n\n10\n00:03:48,228 --> 00:04:10,034\n您的專業的評估在什麼地方?我說的是專業評估喔?這個部分的話基本上來講的話它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共...院長你都會用這個方式喔那另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說\n\n11\n00:04:10,794 --> 00:04:28,716\n目前來說的話,你們說這個東西可以管中窺月在這個地方我去過,的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了,南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展\n\n12\n00:04:50,367 --> 00:05:02,690\n本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎\n\n13\n00:05:13,123 --> 00:05:37,593\n我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的\n\n14\n00:05:37,793 --> 00:05:39,874\n為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?\n\n15\n00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:54,160\n南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢\n\n16\n00:06:11,853 --> 00:06:26,728\n我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心\n\n17\n00:06:28,630 --> 00:06:41,516\n就算了但是你像男院是個故宮男院還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等\n\n18\n00:06:43,877 --> 00:06:43,897\n院長：\n\n19\n00:07:00,434 --> 00:07:15,428\n因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的\n\n20\n00:07:15,928 --> 00:07:36,456\n所以因為我不在任內所以這個不是院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心我沒有意見但是南院的主體性你還是要好好來保持住那你剛剛說新故宮的一個計畫我們就來看一下目前為止故宮提出了這個\n\n21\n00:07:44,199 --> 00:07:56,022\n的建築修復再利用的一個計畫可是在我們很多的會議當中顯然大家有很多不同的一個意見那你看看我想請問部長1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去我在第9屆的時候我也提出這些的計畫裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水\n\n22\n00:08:10,546 --> 00:08:24,803\n等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的問題而且不是必要的一個設施而且你這個所謂的\n\n23\n00:08:26,064 --> 00:08:52,206\n玻璃入口亭的現代的設計其實是引發不同的一個爭議大家認為說目前大家的爭議就完全是放在這個違反文資法的第34條的這樣一個解釋當中院長可不可以這邊做一個說明因為這邊已經從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了一個玻璃式的它有沒有擋住你文資法裡面所提到的它不能遮蔽一個主體的建築\n\n24\n00:08:53,387 --> 00:09:11,752\n文資法基本上來講的話他有他的不得破壞古蹟歷史建築或是不能遮蔽及外貿或阻擋及通道的這樣的一個規定的確但是因為故宮的著眼點的話是一個再利用的部分是活化的部分因為故宮所謂的沒有\n\n25\n00:09:12,512 --> 00:09:19,898\n你認為做一個玻璃的這樣的一個大的建築就會讓他的意象的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有一個可逆性的原則這個是有對\n\n26\n00:09:40,174 --> 00:09:56,561\n建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?\n\n27\n00:09:59,707 --> 00:10:00,428\n根委員報告根委員報告\n\n28\n00:10:18,180 --> 00:10:41,668\n跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做\n\n29\n00:10:42,708 --> 00:10:44,328\n臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行\n\n30\n00:11:09,974 --> 00:11:13,276\n但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個書畫完整呈現他只是想說展覽\n\n31\n00:11:33,348 --> 00:11:33,889\n主席主席主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7584\t7604\t蕭院長\n17448\t33708\t院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎\n35754\t55541\t我還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下\n56801\t63064\t我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的毀損這個毀損還有爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度\n82580\t98637\t好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告,完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院\n101345\t120998\t院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告\n124727\t144921\t所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的工作區域\n145762\t171082\t您看為了圖的方便這就是故宮非常需要做管理的他這時候還報出來你們的研究院可以遠端打卡可以翹班可以讓閒雜人等進來你們負責是國保安全的博物院可是你們行政卻像是烏龍院一樣如果說出行的進入可以來做一個偽照那你的資安不會有任何的一個漏洞嗎那我想請問南院你們對這個成長改進的行政責任目前有達到懲處嗎\n176160\t195668\t這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文拿來給我看一下然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越\n196288\t226288\t﹗\n228228\t250034\t您的專業的評估在什麼地方?我說的是專業評估喔?這個部分的話基本上來講的話它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共...院長你都會用這個方式喔那另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說\n250794\t268716\t目前來說的話,你們說這個東西可以管中窺月在這個地方我去過,的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了,南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展\n270418\t290247\t﹏﹏\n290367\t302690\t本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎\n313123\t337593\t我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的\n337793\t339874\t為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?\n353519\t354160\t南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢\n371853\t386728\t我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心\n388630\t401516\t就算了但是你像男院是個故宮男院還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等\n403877\t403897\t院長：\n420434\t435428\t因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話 戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的\n435928\t456456\t所以因為我不在任內所以這個不是院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心我沒有意見但是南院的主體性你還是要好好來保持住那你剛剛說新故宮的一個計畫我們就來看一下目前為止故宮提出了這個\n464199\t476022\t的建築修復再利用的一個計畫可是在我們很多的會議當中顯然大家有很多不同的一個意見那你看看我想請問部長1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去我在第9屆的時候我也提出這些的計畫裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水\n490546\t504803\t等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的問題而且不是必要的一個設施而且你這個所謂的\n506064\t532206\t玻璃入口亭的現代的設計其實是引發不同的一個爭議大家認為說目前大家的爭議就完全是放在這個違反文資法的第34條的這樣一個解釋當中院長可不可以這邊做一個說明因為這邊已經從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了一個玻璃式的它有沒有擋住你文資法裡面所提到的它不能遮蔽一個主體的建築\n533387\t551752\t文資法基本上來講的話他有他的不得破壞古蹟歷史建築或是不能遮蔽及外貿或阻擋及通道的這樣的一個規定的確但是因為故宮的著眼點的話是一個再利用的部分是活化的部分因為故宮所謂的沒有\n552512\t559898\t你認為做一個玻璃的這樣的一個大的建築就會讓他的意象的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有一個可逆性的原則這個是有對\n580174\t596561\t建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?\n599707\t600428\t根委員報告根委員報告\n618180\t641668\t跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做\n642708\t644328\t臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行\n669974\t673276\t但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個書畫完整呈現他只是想說展覽\n693348\t693889\t主席主席主席\n","txt":"蕭院長\n院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎\n我還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下\n我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的毀損這個毀損還有爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度\n好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告,完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院\n院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告\n所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的工作區域\n您看為了圖的方便這就是故宮非常需要做管理的他這時候還報出來你們的研究院可以遠端打卡可以翹班可以讓閒雜人等進來你們負責是國保安全的博物院可是你們行政卻像是烏龍院一樣如果說出行的進入可以來做一個偽照那你的資安不會有任何的一個漏洞嗎那我想請問南院你們對這個成長改進的行政責任目前有達到懲處嗎\n這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文拿來給我看一下然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越\n﹗\n您的專業的評估在什麼地方?我說的是專業評估喔?這個部分的話基本上來講的話它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共...院長你都會用這個方式喔那另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說\n目前來說的話,你們說這個東西可以管中窺月在這個地方我去過,的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了,南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展\n﹏﹏\n本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎\n我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的\n為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?\n南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢\n我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心\n就算了但是你像男院是個故宮男院還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等\n院長：\n因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話 戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的\n所以因為我不在任內所以這個不是院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心我沒有意見但是南院的主體性你還是要好好來保持住那你剛剛說新故宮的一個計畫我們就來看一下目前為止故宮提出了這個\n的建築修復再利用的一個計畫可是在我們很多的會議當中顯然大家有很多不同的一個意見那你看看我想請問部長1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去我在第9屆的時候我也提出這些的計畫裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水\n等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的問題而且不是必要的一個設施而且你這個所謂的\n玻璃入口亭的現代的設計其實是引發不同的一個爭議大家認為說目前大家的爭議就完全是放在這個違反文資法的第34條的這樣一個解釋當中院長可不可以這邊做一個說明因為這邊已經從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了一個玻璃式的它有沒有擋住你文資法裡面所提到的它不能遮蔽一個主體的建築\n文資法基本上來講的話他有他的不得破壞古蹟歷史建築或是不能遮蔽及外貿或阻擋及通道的這樣的一個規定的確但是因為故宮的著眼點的話是一個再利用的部分是活化的部分因為故宮所謂的沒有\n你認為做一個玻璃的這樣的一個大的建築就會讓他的意象的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有一個可逆性的原則這個是有對\n建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?\n根委員報告根委員報告\n跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做\n臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行\n但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個書畫完整呈現他只是想說展覽\n主席主席主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.584 --> 00:07.604\n蕭院長\n\n00:17.448 --> 00:33.708\n院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎\n\n00:35.754 --> 00:55.541\n我還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下\n\n00:56.801 --> 01:03.064\n我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的毀損這個毀損還有爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度\n\n01:22.580 --> 01:38.637\n好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告,完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院\n\n01:41.345 --> 02:00.998\n院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告\n\n02:04.727 --> 02:24.921\n所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的工作區域\n\n02:25.762 --> 02:51.082\n您看為了圖的方便這就是故宮非常需要做管理的他這時候還報出來你們的研究院可以遠端打卡可以翹班可以讓閒雜人等進來你們負責是國保安全的博物院可是你們行政卻像是烏龍院一樣如果說出行的進入可以來做一個偽照那你的資安不會有任何的一個漏洞嗎那我想請問南院你們對這個成長改進的行政責任目前有達到懲處嗎\n\n02:56.160 --> 03:15.668\n這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文拿來給我看一下然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越\n\n03:48.228 --> 04:10.034\n您的專業的評估在什麼地方?我說的是專業評估喔?這個部分的話基本上來講的話它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共...院長你都會用這個方式喔那另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說\n\n04:10.794 --> 04:28.716\n目前來說的話,你們說這個東西可以管中窺月在這個地方我去過,的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了,南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展\n\n04:50.367 --> 05:02.690\n本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎\n\n05:13.123 --> 05:37.593\n我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的\n\n05:37.793 --> 05:39.874\n為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?\n\n05:53.519 --> 05:54.160\n南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢\n\n06:11.853 --> 06:26.728\n我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心\n\n06:28.630 --> 06:41.516\n就算了但是你像男院是個故宮男院還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等\n\n06:43.877 --> 06:43.897\n院長：\n\n07:00.434 --> 07:15.428\n因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的\n\n07:15.928 --> 07:36.456\n所以因為我不在任內所以這個不是院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心我沒有意見但是南院的主體性你還是要好好來保持住那你剛剛說新故宮的一個計畫我們就來看一下目前為止故宮提出了這個\n\n07:44.199 --> 07:56.022\n的建築修復再利用的一個計畫可是在我們很多的會議當中顯然大家有很多不同的一個意見那你看看我想請問部長1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去我在第9屆的時候我也提出這些的計畫裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水\n\n08:10.546 --> 08:24.803\n等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的問題而且不是必要的一個設施而且你這個所謂的\n\n08:26.064 --> 08:52.206\n玻璃入口亭的現代的設計其實是引發不同的一個爭議大家認為說目前大家的爭議就完全是放在這個違反文資法的第34條的這樣一個解釋當中院長可不可以這邊做一個說明因為這邊已經從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了一個玻璃式的它有沒有擋住你文資法裡面所提到的它不能遮蔽一個主體的建築\n\n08:53.387 --> 09:11.752\n文資法基本上來講的話他有他的不得破壞古蹟歷史建築或是不能遮蔽及外貿或阻擋及通道的這樣的一個規定的確但是因為故宮的著眼點的話是一個再利用的部分是活化的部分因為故宮所謂的沒有\n\n09:12.512 --> 09:19.898\n你認為做一個玻璃的這樣的一個大的建築就會讓他的意象的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有一個可逆性的原則這個是有對\n\n09:40.174 --> 09:56.561\n建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?\n\n09:59.707 --> 10:00.428\n根委員報告根委員報告\n\n10:18.180 --> 10:41.668\n跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做\n\n10:42.708 --> 10:44.328\n臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行\n\n11:09.974 --> 11:13.276\n但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個書畫完整呈現他只是想說展覽\n\n11:33.348 --> 11:33.889\n主席主席主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.584,"end":7.604,"text":"蕭院長"},{"start":17.448,"end":33.708,"text":"院長你曾經在告訴大家說你的這個專業的生涯當中有兩樣事情就是藝術行政跟博物館的專業這是你畢生想做到的那請問你你覺得你目前為止真的有把南北院都做到這樣一個層次嗎"},{"start":35.754,"end":55.541,"text":"我還在努力之中還在努力當中所以我們有很多東西我們可以好好來做一個檢討那我想身為一個我們就誠如大家所提到的故宮是我們國家之寶一個世界級的博物館它的管理當然是非常的重要當然很多事情都是在你上任之前所做的但是我們還是要瀏覽一下"},{"start":56.801,"end":63.064,"text":"我覺得像是過去來說陸續發生的明清這個文物的毀損這個毀損還有爆出3萬張高階圖檔外流這些都是我們一筆一筆我們公堂所保存下來的然後結果外洩到這個淘寶來做個販售而且重要的是這是民眾來檢舉所以我請問故宮有揪出內鬼嗎目前為止進到什麼程度"},{"start":82.58,"end":98.637,"text":"好,如果第一個的話就是有關那個瓷器受損的部分的話我們已經完成修復然後也完成調查報告,完成懲處那調查報告的話也分送監察院跟那個行政院"},{"start":101.345,"end":120.998,"text":"院長我只是要說你有沒有辦法在這地方跟大家承諾故宮的行政管理資安特別是文物的安全你有辦法向大家來做出承諾未來不會發生因為我要提醒剛剛我所說的事情你們應該是在一小時之內就要做通報你們是違反資安資通的安全的管理辦法你們是9個月之後呢才向數位部來做這樣的一個報告"},{"start":124.727,"end":144.921,"text":"所以跟委員報告一下因為所謂的土黨外流的部分是媒體一下報導說有10萬張的土黨外流那這個土黨外流的話我們去檢視的話的確就是那個同仁的話他是為了作為方便把土黨放到外部的區域不是在他內部內網的工作區域"},{"start":145.762,"end":171.082,"text":"您看為了圖的方便這就是故宮非常需要做管理的他這時候還報出來你們的研究院可以遠端打卡可以翹班可以讓閒雜人等進來你們負責是國保安全的博物院可是你們行政卻像是烏龍院一樣如果說出行的進入可以來做一個偽照那你的資安不會有任何的一個漏洞嗎那我想請問南院你們對這個成長改進的行政責任目前有達到懲處嗎"},{"start":176.16,"end":195.668,"text":"這個同仁基本上來講的話我們也送人憑如果有確實質詢你就把公文拿給我來看一下好不好公文拿來給我看一下然後呢很多的這個狀況裡面我們還是要看我想美醜這個部分每個人都各自有這樣子一個論斷身為民意代表我們對於一些經費還是要提出我們自己的看法南越"},{"start":196.288,"end":226.288,"text":"﹗"},{"start":228.228,"end":250.034,"text":"您的專業的評估在什麼地方?我說的是專業評估喔?這個部分的話基本上來講的話它所有的程序都是依照採購法公共...院長你都會用這個方式喔那另外的話就是說這個計畫的話是在新故宮計畫裡面新故宮我等一下會好好跟你討論新故宮到底是不是華而不實我馬上就可以討論到這一塊我們只是說"},{"start":250.794,"end":268.716,"text":"目前來說的話,你們說這個東西可以管中窺月在這個地方我去過,的確夜晚很漂亮但是你不要忘記了,南院晚上也不開幕好不好我今天所要強調的一點就是我們現在目前南院狂打所謂的公共藝術而且呢把這個公共藝術當作是常設的一個展"},{"start":270.418,"end":290.247,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":290.367,"end":302.69,"text":"本來是只有典藏科的研究員才有辦法當成策展員可是南院對不起你的教展科的人也可以辦所以才會發生上次泰國展沒有什麼時事東西可以看的而且你們還甚至修改內規讓應該要有研究員身份的人現在來擔任行政高員院長這些事情你都有來做一些的討論跟瞭解嗎"},{"start":313.123,"end":337.593,"text":"我想這個部分的話,我舉我在台北館的例子,任何一個主事都要策展。教育推廣組策教育推廣展,典藏組策典藏展。基本上來講的話,只要你是研究職人員的話,基本上來講的話,都有策展的一個領域。專業是你們最重要,今天我們所討論的專業還是還有把你的"},{"start":337.793,"end":339.874,"text":"為什麼沒有所謂的研究員背景的人可以擔任你們南院的副處長?"},{"start":353.519,"end":354.16,"text":"南苑的兩棵松素聽說要花費相當進口車的價錢"},{"start":371.853,"end":386.728,"text":"我只是告訴大家就是說你們過去南院在種植任何的這個植栽的時候都是要符合本土的這樣的一個氣候我只是認為說南院應該投資的都是在你們展覽跟教育如果你今天是一個一個所謂的藝術中心"},{"start":388.63,"end":401.516,"text":"就算了但是你像男院是個故宮男院還有他的一個基本的精神存在所以呢不管是我剛所提出來部分裡面還有過去呢你還有還有辦了非常多的活動包括在外面給孩子玩殺等等"},{"start":403.877,"end":403.897,"text":"院長："},{"start":420.434,"end":435.428,"text":"因為故宮園區的福原廣大除了鎮館之外的話 戶外園區的話當然會有一些景觀那景觀的話當初的規劃他的這些植栽的價錢的話基本上來講也都是當時評估經過一個程序去完成的"},{"start":435.928,"end":456.456,"text":"所以因為我不在任內所以這個不是院長我只是強調你身為要以博物館的專業所以說我們強調南院的本館的主體性外面的那些部分如果你把它定位在一般的休閒或是一般的藝術中心我沒有意見但是南院的主體性你還是要好好來保持住那你剛剛說新故宮的一個計畫我們就來看一下目前為止故宮提出了這個"},{"start":464.199,"end":476.022,"text":"的建築修復再利用的一個計畫可是在我們很多的會議當中顯然大家有很多不同的一個意見那你看看我想請問部長1月3號跟2月3號兩天有說明會很多人就認為在這個說明會當中很多問題還是沒有釐清過去我在第9屆的時候我也提出這些的計畫裡面當中有很多不當之處如果你今天是修復漏水"},{"start":490.546,"end":504.803,"text":"等等一些主管裡面的一些修復我沒有意見但是你現在牽涉到我想院長應該看得很清楚那時候大家所看到的是故宮沒有所謂的入口意向的問題而且不是必要的一個設施而且你這個所謂的"},{"start":506.064,"end":532.206,"text":"玻璃入口亭的現代的設計其實是引發不同的一個爭議大家認為說目前大家的爭議就完全是放在這個違反文資法的第34條的這樣一個解釋當中院長可不可以這邊做一個說明因為這邊已經從那時候到現在已經爭議非常久了一個玻璃式的它有沒有擋住你文資法裡面所提到的它不能遮蔽一個主體的建築"},{"start":533.387,"end":551.752,"text":"文資法基本上來講的話他有他的不得破壞古蹟歷史建築或是不能遮蔽及外貿或阻擋及通道的這樣的一個規定的確但是因為故宮的著眼點的話是一個再利用的部分是活化的部分因為故宮所謂的沒有"},{"start":552.512,"end":559.898,"text":"你認為做一個玻璃的這樣的一個大的建築就會讓他的意象的所謂的入口更清晰更明顯嗎這是你所認為的嗎基本上來講他沒有遮蔽主體嗎而且他還具有所謂的你們的建築師還說具有一個可逆性的原則這個是有對"},{"start":580.174,"end":596.561,"text":"建築設計是一個實證的科學所以故宮當初的話從第一棟方塊形然後變長方形變摸字形然後總共經過了5次的改建所以裡面的故宮動線大家會認為說故宮的動線很清楚嗎?"},{"start":599.707,"end":600.428,"text":"根委員報告根委員報告"},{"start":618.18,"end":641.668,"text":"跟委員報告基本上來講故宮依照文資法的程序然後把他的設計方案送到臺北市文資審議會審議我們會尊重審議的結果因為好部長院長我最後只問了一個這是在你前任院長裡面所設定下來的這是在吳院長所定下來的我最後只問你一個你真的願意為這些整建的計畫來做"},{"start":642.708,"end":644.328,"text":"臺北市文資審議委員會審議通過之後我們才會去進行"},{"start":669.974,"end":673.276,"text":"但是故宮裏面的動線基本上的確要重整因為當初規劃故宮的時候從來都沒有想到說那個書畫完整呈現他只是想說展覽"},{"start":693.348,"end":693.889,"text":"主席主席主席"}]}}}}