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10:40:27","影片長度":"00:10:46","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-4"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":646,"end_time":"2024-03-07T10:40:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T10:29:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":572,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時29分）我們請邱主委。"],["主席：有請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝主席。最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話，包括地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達，最近大家都在討論中配入籍縮短的事情，其實大家都很有反應，然後大家都滿擔心，這個擔心來自幾個層面：第一個是大家在討論的健保，健保署也說過他們做過整體的評估了，就是如果年長者來這邊繳少用多可能會有爭議，也會有公平性的疑慮；另外一部分還包括對民主跟國安的疑慮，這也是很多民眾來跟我反映的，他們很希望陸委會在這件事情上可以有個態度、有個立場，然後把這件事情跟大家講清楚，否則大家在這種疑慮當中，對於臺灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的。","所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委，首先，大家知道中國籍配偶跟外籍配偶依據的法源不同，一個是兩岸人民關係條例，外配依據的是國籍法，這是母法的不同，大家都認為如果要一起討論，那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論，這樣才公平。這個是我做的比較表格，我想要問一下，如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話，除了現在大家說的年限不同之外，請問中配跟外配在取得身分證的條件上目前還有什麼不同？可不可以請主委簡單說明？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上，委員很用心，大概把一般坊間或一般老百姓所關注的差異性，已經做了列表，事實上還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意。我覺得利弊得失可能要思考清楚，再來推動。院長也在院會說，目前我們還在綜整各界的意見，暫時還沒有修法的計畫。"],["黃委員捷：這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的，就是你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫，但是其實已經有立委提案了，也送案了，如果陸委會都沒有相關的對策，這樣可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：會，我們……"],["黃委員捷：沒關係，你先等我講完，我們一步一步來討論，就是真的如果要談公平、要談所有新住民的人權，當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平、非常在乎人權的民意代表，所以我也很希望如果真的可以，我們就務實的一步一步來討論。","首先，我想要請教國籍的部分，這張表格也寫得很清楚，目前中國籍配偶是不需要放棄中國國籍，而外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍，甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子，在這種狀態之下才有辦法拿到臺灣的身分證。所以我想要問，如果真的要比照國籍法，是不是有機會來要求中國配偶放棄中國籍再拿到臺灣身分證？我想問一下，這樣實務上是可行的嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：這可能會讓整個法定流程又要再重新調整，恐怕玆事體大。"],["黃委員捷：所以這有辦法從兩岸人民關係條例來進行修法嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：委員大概也知道，我們在憲法增修條文中，所謂的定位本來就把所謂的……"],["黃委員捷：不是國與國的關係。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，那這樣的處理上……"],["黃委員捷：所以如果要的話要進行修憲，是這樣嘛。"],["邱主任委員太三：問題就會比較複雜，這也就是我們認為大家是不是再尋求共識。"],["黃委員捷：好，沒有關係，因為確實也有很多民眾在問，如果中國籍配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話，我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道。我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道，接下來可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例，還包括修憲等等的進程。當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式，其實可以比照國外的作法，例如美國、澳洲。美國的作法是什麼呢？就是入籍的時候要必須要有一個入籍的宣誓，宣誓的內容包括我必須要效忠國家、必須要捍衛國家、必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線，包括軍事上等等，這是他們入籍的誓詞，甚至澳洲還有入籍的儀式，必須要到儀式現場。那是不是有機會中配也要參與入籍的儀式，並且宣誓效忠臺灣，這有可能嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然我想這都是整體配套的一些考量，目前陸委會工作的重點方向就是他在臺灣的生活、工作或社會福利上，我們都給予充分的照顧，以避免這種講白了比較具政治性意涵的程序或者儀式，這個恐怕要大家求得共識。"],["黃委員捷：這就是我想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分，因為在你們的報告裡面有寫到，去年中國已經修訂了他們新的反間諜法，也在這邊跟大家報告一下，去年中國新修訂的反間諜法是把間諜的行為更擴大，然後變得更籠統，而且效力是溯及既往的，什麼意思呢？就是非常有可能無端入罪，甚至報告裡面也有寫到，就是我們臺灣籍的要出入境中國的時候，他們對臺灣人的盤查上升到兩倍，就因為這個反間諜法，甚至他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共。那麼在出入境中國風險越來越高的情況下，我們是不是會有相關的疑慮？這個我覺得必須要正視，而不是避免政治性的爭議，尤其現在在反分裂國家法及反間諜法之下，他們是不是有可能要求中國人來到臺灣甚至舉報臺獨？這樣的行為都是有可能出現的。","再來剛剛也有提到入籍考試的部分，這個其實我覺得就比較沒有你說的所謂的政治性，所以我覺得如果接下來要修法的話，我也是支持外籍配偶必須要考試，考試的內容剛剛也有委員有把考試的題目秀出來，其實就是問臺灣幾年一次選舉、基本的公民義務為何，這個是不是有機會來支持？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然我們都很希望陸配來臺灣能夠很快的融入臺灣民主法治跟憲政的生活和政治形態……"],["黃委員捷：可以支持嗎？考試的部分。"],["邱主任委員太三：所以在過去大法官也認為如果期限可以延長一點，融入更久一點，也許就會有跟我們國人同樣的憲政思維，過去曾經有這樣的一個思考，所以才會把期限……"],["黃委員捷：好，我希望說接下來如果真的要的話，是不是歸化的考試也可以放進去？","最後大家都講到因為外配入籍是4年，希望中配也可以比照，如果真的去看這個條文，同樣是要住183天的話，中配是4+2，是6年，外配是3+5，反而是8年，也就是說在同樣的標準之下，外配反而需要更多的時間才可以拿到身分證，是這樣嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有啦，感謝您注意到這些相關的差異，我們總結來看，是不希望在這個時候把這個議題拿來做不相干的比較。"],["黃委員捷：這沒有不相干，這個其實就是入籍的條件儘量可以趨於一致而已。"],["邱主任委員太三：他有他的特殊性。"],["黃委員捷：我認為這個也是針對你們說的生活面的保障，還有讓他們的福利趨於一致……"],["邱主任委員太三：所以我們陸委會就朝向生活、工作、社會福利的保障。"],["黃委員捷：那我認為如果真的要討論，就是把國籍法跟兩岸條例一起拿來討論嘛，我希望所有的條件大家可以一個一個拿來比，包括外籍配偶入籍要經過9個程序，中國籍配偶只需要經過6個程序，可以一併的討論。當然剛剛健保的部分講過了，其實我必須要講，如果中籍配偶入籍年限縮短，最直接的影響就是可以更早投票，更早投票會有什麼風險或疑慮呢？當然我也不希望把外配一貫的來看待，但是我可以分享兩本書，一本是「無聲的入侵：中國因素在澳洲」，另外一本是「大熊貓的利爪　中國如何滲透、影響與威嚇加拿大」，其中就描述了中國的魔爪如何滲透民主的政權，北京的政權是直接控制中國的移民、留學生，然後在這些民主國家蒐集情資、操控輿論，並且直接影響選舉。所以我必須要在這邊很明確地講到，這就是未來有可能發生的風險，而且是陸委會接下來不能逃避，必須要正式面對，並且開始有一些備案的，好嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：好，謝謝委員的指教。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們會來努力。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員的質詢，也謝謝邱主委。","我們現在休息3分鐘，謝謝。","休息（10時40分）","繼續開會（10時44分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。我們請王美惠委員、最可愛的王美惠委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":268,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-4","speakers":["高金素梅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","羅智強","王美惠","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃捷","黃建賓","丁學忠","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","張智倫","許宇甄"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149494","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149494","tool":"pyannote","id":"149494-pyannote"},"job_id":"q5bEl7rQ1mmp57SH","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 267.319, \"end\": 268.24, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 268.24, \"end\": 268.4, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 268.4, \"end\": 268.84, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 268.84, \"end\": 269.14, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"複\"}, {\"word\": \"雜\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 269.14, \"end\": 269.321, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 269.321, \"end\": 269.981, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 269.981, \"end\": 270.061, \"score\": 0.364}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 270.061, \"end\": 270.201, \"score\": 0.599}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 270.201, \"end\": 270.321, 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\"start\": 277.747, \"end\": 277.928, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 277.928, \"end\": 278.028, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 278.028, \"end\": 278.308, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 278.308, \"end\": 278.448, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 278.448, \"end\": 279.489, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 279.489, \"end\": 279.809, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 279.809, \"end\": 280.65, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 280.65, \"end\": 280.81, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 280.81, \"end\": 281.43, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 281.43, \"end\": 281.59, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 281.59, \"end\": 281.991, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 281.991, \"end\": 282.131, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 282.131, \"end\": 282.311, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 282.311, \"end\": 282.791, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 282.791, \"end\": 283.112, \"score\": 0.556}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 283.112, \"end\": 283.272, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 283.272, \"end\": 283.412, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 283.412, \"end\": 283.552, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 283.552, \"end\": 283.832, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 283.832, \"end\": 284.453, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 284.453, \"end\": 284.593, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 284.593, \"end\": 284.773, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 284.773, \"end\": 284.933, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 284.933, \"end\": 285.073, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 288.376, \"end\": 288.556, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 288.556, \"end\": 288.936, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 288.936, \"end\": 289.117, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 289.117, \"end\": 289.517, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 289.517, \"end\": 289.637, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 289.637, \"end\": 289.777, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 289.777, \"end\": 289.957, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 289.957, \"end\": 290.398, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"臨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 290.398, \"end\": 290.618, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 290.618, \"end\": 290.758, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 290.758, \"end\": 290.858, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 290.858, \"end\": 291.038, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 291.038, \"end\": 291.218, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 291.218, \"end\": 291.478, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 291.478, \"end\": 291.579, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 291.579, \"end\": 292.399, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 292.399, \"end\": 292.619, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 292.619, \"end\": 292.759, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 292.759, \"end\": 292.96, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 292.96, \"end\": 293.18, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 293.18, \"end\": 293.56, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 293.56, \"end\": 293.82, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 293.82, \"end\": 294.321, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 294.321, \"end\": 294.341, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 294.341, \"end\": 294.421, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 294.421, \"end\": 294.441, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 294.441, \"end\": 294.461, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 296.062, \"end\": 320.227, \"text\": \"那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 296.062, \"end\": 296.522, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 296.522, \"end\": 296.722, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 296.722, \"end\": 297.022, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 297.022, \"end\": 297.242, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 297.242, \"end\": 297.342, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 297.342, \"end\": 297.462, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 297.462, \"end\": 297.622, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 297.622, 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 300.563, \"end\": 300.843, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 300.843, \"end\": 301.143, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 301.143, \"end\": 301.303, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 301.303, \"end\": 301.443, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 301.443, \"end\": 301.863, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 301.863, \"end\": 302.023, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 302.023, \"end\": 302.203, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"澳\", \"start\": 302.203, \"end\": 302.503, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"洲\", \"start\": 302.503, \"end\": 303.023, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 303.023, \"end\": 303.363, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 303.363, \"end\": 303.524, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 303.524, \"end\": 303.684, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 303.684, \"end\": 303.864, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 303.864, \"end\": 304.204, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 304.204, \"end\": 304.364, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 304.364, \"end\": 304.524, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 304.524, \"end\": 304.904, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 304.904, \"end\": 305.164, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 305.164, \"end\": 305.404, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 305.404, \"end\": 305.544, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 305.544, \"end\": 305.824, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 305.824, \"end\": 307.024, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 307.024, \"end\": 307.424, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 307.424, \"end\": 307.624, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 307.624, \"end\": 307.784, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 307.784, \"end\": 308.044, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 308.044, \"end\": 308.324, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 308.324, \"end\": 308.485, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 308.485, \"end\": 308.685, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 308.685, \"end\": 309.065, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"誓\", \"start\": 309.065, \"end\": 309.445, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 309.445, \"end\": 309.665, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 309.665, \"end\": 309.885, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"誓\", \"start\": 309.885, \"end\": 310.025, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 310.025, \"end\": 310.325, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 310.325, \"end\": 310.525, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 310.525, \"end\": 310.725, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 310.725, \"end\": 311.085, 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\"end\": 313.826, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 313.826, \"end\": 314.086, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 314.086, \"end\": 314.266, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 314.266, \"end\": 314.786, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 314.786, \"end\": 315.006, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 315.006, \"end\": 315.206, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 315.206, \"end\": 315.406, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 315.406, \"end\": 315.606, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 315.606, \"end\": 316.026, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 316.026, \"end\": 316.466, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 316.466, \"end\": 316.666, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 316.666, \"end\": 316.846, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 316.846, \"end\": 317.066, \"score\": 0.948}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,128 --> 00:00:00,889\n好那我們請邱主委有請邱主委\n\n2\n00:00:13,578 --> 00:00:30,894\n好那好謝謝主席因為其實最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話然後包括說地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達說因為最近大家在討論這個中退入籍縮短的事情其實大家都很有反應然後大家其實都蠻擔心的\n\n3\n00:00:32,595 --> 00:00:57,887\n那這個擔心其實來自幾個層面第一個是其實最近大家在討論的健保那這個其實當然也有健保署也有說過他們有做過他們整體的評估了就是說如果年長者來這邊繳少用多的情況可能會有爭議那也會有公平性的疑慮那另外一部分還有包括對於民主跟國安的疑慮這個也是很多民眾來跟我反映的\n\n4\n00:00:58,527 --> 00:01:19,928\n然後他們很希望說我們陸委會是不是在這件事情上面可以有個態度有個立場然後來把這件事情跟大家講清楚否則大家在這種疑慮當中對於台灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委首先第一個可以幫我放我的比較表格嗎有嗎\n\n5\n00:01:25,672 --> 00:01:48,651\n暫停時間請助理麻煩處理一下好OK謝謝謝謝繼續好那當然因為大家知道說其實中國籍的配偶跟外籍的配偶的依據的法源不同一個是兩岸人民關係條例那外配的依據是國籍法這個是某法的不同那因為大家都認為說如果我們要一起討論那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論這樣才公平\n\n6\n00:01:50,592 --> 00:02:05,686\n那這個是我做的比較的表格我想要問一下說如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話除了現在大家說的年限不同請問中配跟外配在取得身份證的條件上目前還有什麼不同可不可以請主委簡單說明\n\n7\n00:02:07,283 --> 00:02:32,680\n基本上委員很用心大概把一般坊間大概或說一般老百姓所關注的這樣的一個差異性已經做了這樣的一個列表那其實事實上可能還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意所以我覺得這個是一個利弊得失可能要思考清楚再來做這樣的一個推動所以我想院長大概也在院會裡面\n\n8\n00:02:33,681 --> 00:02:36,483\n也講說目前我們還在中整各界的意見暫時還沒有修法的這樣的計畫\n\n9\n00:02:40,677 --> 00:02:46,501\n好這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的就是說你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫但是其實已經有立委提案了然後也送案了那這個是如果我們陸委會都沒有相關的對策這樣是可以的嗎那當然沒關係你先等我講完我們一步一步來討論啦就是真的如果要談公平要談所有新住民的人權那當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平然後非常在乎人權的\n\n10\n00:03:11,157 --> 00:03:38,512\n民意代表那所以我也很希望說如果真的可以我們就務實的一步一步來討論所以首先我想要請教第一步國籍的部分那其實這張表格也寫得很清楚目前中國籍是不需要放棄中國的國籍那外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子那在這種狀態之下接下來才有辦法拿到台灣的身份證的\n\n11\n00:03:39,352 --> 00:04:01,366\n所以我想要問如果真的我們要比照國籍法的話是不是有機會來要求中國籍放棄中國的配偶放棄中國籍再拿到台灣的身份證我想一下問一下這樣實務上是可行的嗎這個可能會讓整個的法定的流程又要再重新做調整那這個恐怕就知識體大\n\n12\n00:04:05,508 --> 00:04:24,717\n知事體大所以是說這個有辦法從藍岸人民關係條例裡面來進行修法嗎到底因為委員大家也知道我們在憲法的徵修條例上面在所謂的定位上面本來就把是不是國與國的關係嗎對那這樣的一個處理上面又所以如果要的話要進行修憲嗎\n\n13\n00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:54,461\n是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程\n\n14\n00:04:56,062 --> 00:05:20,227\n那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等\n\n15\n00:05:21,067 --> 00:05:45,007\n那這個是他們入籍的宣誓的宣誓詞裡頭寫到的那甚至是澳洲還有入籍的就的入籍儀式必須要去到儀式的現場那是不是有機會就是如果中配他們也可以來就是使用這個就是入籍的儀式並且就是宣誓說我們效忠台灣這是有可能的嗎\n\n16\n00:05:46,668 --> 00:06:12,177\n當然我想這個都是整體的配套的一些考量那我們目前陸委會所這個工作的重點方向就是說在他的在台灣的生活工作或者是社會福利上面我們都可以充分的一個照顧那以避免這種講白了真的比較正式性的這種意涵的這種程序或或者是儀式的恐怕這個要在大家求的共識\n\n17\n00:06:13,460 --> 00:06:40,025\n這個是我就是想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分因為說實在其實在你們的報告裡面有寫到說去年中國已經修訂他們新的這個反間諜法那大家不知道也在這邊跟大家報告一下去年中國新修訂的這個反間諜法他們是把這個間諜的行為更擴大然後變得更籠統而且效力是數級既往的什麼意思呢就是你非常有可能無端入罪\n\n18\n00:06:40,885 --> 00:06:55,767\n那甚至是我們在報告裡面有寫到啊就是我們台灣級的要出入進中國的時候他們對台灣人的盤查上升到兩倍就因為這個反間諜法甚至是你他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共那在這麼入\n\n19\n00:06:57,589 --> 00:07:13,835\n要出入進中國越來越風險越來越高的情況下我們非常是不是會有相關的疑慮這個我覺得必須要正式的去面對而不是說我們避免政治性的爭議尤其是現在他們在反分裂國家法以及反間諜法之下\n\n20\n00:07:15,676 --> 00:07:20,343\n他們是不是會有可能要求中國人來到台灣那甚至是舉報台獨這樣的行為出現都是有可能的那再來剛有提到入籍考試的部分這個其實我覺得就比較沒有所謂的你說的政治性\n\n21\n00:07:31,738 --> 00:07:32,358\n臺灣幾年一次選舉公民義務違和\n\n22\n00:07:50,557 --> 00:08:03,164\n當然我們都很希望陸配來台灣很快的能夠融入台灣民主法治跟憲政這樣的一個生活跟政治的期待所以在過去大法官也認為說如果期限可以讓他延長一點那融入更久一點那這個也許可能就會有這個跟我們國民同樣的這樣的一個憲政思維\n\n23\n00:08:18,852 --> 00:08:42,143\n所以過去曾經有這樣的一個思考過所以才會把期限好所以是不是我希望說接下來如果真的要的話是不是這個規劃的考試也可以放進去那最後其實大家都有講到說因為外配入籍是可以4年然後希望中配也可以比照那其實如果真的去看這個條文裡面如果同樣是要住183天的話中配反而是4加2是6年外配是3加5反而是8年\n\n24\n00:08:48,366 --> 00:08:48,486\n是這樣子嗎?\n\n25\n00:08:57,264 --> 00:08:57,304\n主席\n\n26\n00:09:27,664 --> 00:09:29,446\n其實如果這個中級的配偶入籍縮短最直接的影響就是可以更早投票\n\n27\n00:09:49,545 --> 00:09:49,785\n中國如何滲透加拿大\n\n28\n00:10:13,587 --> 00:10:13,827\n謝謝委員的指教\n\n29\n00:10:34,088 --> 00:10:34,369\n黃捷委員提醒\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n128\t889\t好那我們請邱主委有請邱主委\n13578\t30894\t好 那好 謝謝主席因為其實最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話然後包括說地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達說因為最近大家在討論這個中退入籍縮短的事情其實大家都很有反應然後大家其實都蠻擔心的\n32595\t57887\t那這個擔心其實來自幾個層面第一個是其實最近大家在討論的健保那這個其實當然也有健保署也有說過他們有做過他們整體的評估了就是說如果年長者來這邊繳少用多的情況可能會有爭議那也會有公平性的疑慮那另外一部分還有包括對於民主跟國安的疑慮這個也是很多民眾來跟我反映的\n58527\t79928\t然後他們很希望說我們陸委會是不是在這件事情上面可以有個態度有個立場然後來把這件事情跟大家講清楚否則大家在這種疑慮當中對於台灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委首先第一個可以幫我放我的比較表格嗎有嗎\n85672\t108651\t暫停時間請助理麻煩處理一下好OK謝謝謝謝繼續好那當然因為大家知道說其實中國籍的配偶跟外籍的配偶的依據的法源不同一個是兩岸人民關係條例那外配的依據是國籍法這個是某法的不同那因為大家都認為說如果我們要一起討論那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論這樣才公平\n110592\t125686\t那這個是我做的比較的表格我想要問一下說如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話除了現在大家說的年限不同請問中配跟外配在取得身份證的條件上目前還有什麼不同可不可以請主委簡單說明\n127283\t152680\t基本上委員很用心大概把一般坊間大概或說一般老百姓所關注的這樣的一個差異性已經做了這樣的一個列表那其實事實上可能還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意所以我覺得這個是一個利弊得失可能要思考清楚再來做這樣的一個推動所以我想院長大概也在院會裡面\n153681\t156483\t也講說目前我們還在中整各界的意見暫時還沒有修法的這樣的計畫\n160677\t166501\t好 這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的就是說你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫但是其實已經有立委提案了然後也送案了那這個是如果我們陸委會都沒有相關的對策這樣是可以的嗎那當然沒關係你先等我講完我們一步一步來討論啦就是真的如果要談公平要談所有新住民的人權那當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平然後非常在乎人權的\n191157\t218512\t民意代表那所以我也很希望說如果真的可以我們就務實的一步一步來討論所以首先我想要請教第一步國籍的部分那其實這張表格也寫得很清楚目前中國籍是不需要放棄中國的國籍那外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子那在這種狀態之下接下來才有辦法拿到台灣的身份證的\n219352\t241366\t所以我想要問如果真的我們要比照國籍法的話是不是有機會來要求中國籍放棄中國的配偶放棄中國籍再拿到台灣的身份證我想一下問一下這樣實務上是可行的嗎這個可能會讓整個的法定的流程又要再重新做調整那這個恐怕就知識體大\n245508\t264717\t知事體大所以是說這個有辦法從藍岸人民關係條例裡面來進行修法嗎到底因為委員大家也知道我們在憲法的徵修條例上面在所謂的定位上面本來就把是不是國與國的關係嗎對那這樣的一個處理上面又所以如果要的話要進行修憲嗎\n267319\t294461\t是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程\n296062\t320227\t那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等\n321067\t345007\t那這個是他們入籍的宣誓的宣誓詞裡頭寫到的那甚至是澳洲還有入籍的就的入籍儀式必須要去到儀式的現場那是不是有機會就是如果中配他們也可以來就是使用這個就是入籍的儀式並且就是宣誓說我們效忠台灣這是有可能的嗎\n346668\t372177\t當然我想這個都是整體的配套的一些考量那我們目前陸委會所這個工作的重點方向就是說在他的在台灣的生活工作或者是社會福利上面我們都可以充分的一個照顧那以避免這種講白了真的比較正式性的這種意涵的這種程序或或者是儀式的恐怕這個要在大家求的共識\n373460\t400025\t這個是我就是想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分因為說實在其實在你們的報告裡面有寫到說去年中國已經修訂他們新的這個反間諜法那大家不知道也在這邊跟大家報告一下去年中國新修訂的這個反間諜法他們是把這個間諜的行為更擴大然後變得更籠統而且效力是數級既往的什麼意思呢就是你非常有可能無端入罪\n400885\t415767\t那甚至是我們在報告裡面有寫到啊就是我們台灣級的要出入進中國的時候他們對台灣人的盤查上升到兩倍就因為這個反間諜法甚至是你他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共那在這麼入\n417589\t433835\t要出入進中國越來越風險越來越高的情況下我們非常是不是會有相關的疑慮這個我覺得必須要正式的去面對而不是說我們避免政治性的爭議尤其是現在他們在反分裂國家法以及反間諜法之下\n435676\t440343\t他們是不是會有可能要求中國人來到台灣那甚至是舉報台獨這樣的行為出現都是有可能的那再來剛有提到入籍考試的部分這個其實我覺得就比較沒有所謂的你說的政治性\n451738\t452358\t臺灣幾年一次選舉公民義務違和\n470557\t483164\t當然我們都很希望陸配來台灣很快的能夠融入台灣民主法治跟憲政這樣的一個生活跟政治的期待所以在過去大法官也認為說如果期限可以讓他延長一點那融入更久一點那這個也許可能就會有這個跟我們國民同樣的這樣的一個憲政思維\n498852\t522143\t所以過去曾經有這樣的一個思考過所以才會把期限好所以是不是我希望說接下來如果真的要的話是不是這個規劃的考試也可以放進去那最後其實大家都有講到說因為外配入籍是可以4年然後希望中配也可以比照那其實如果真的去看這個條文裡面如果同樣是要住183天的話中配反而是4加2是6年外配是3加5反而是8年\n528366\t528486\t是這樣子嗎?\n537264\t537304\t主席\n567664\t569446\t其實如果這個中級的配偶入籍縮短最直接的影響就是可以更早投票\n589545\t589785\t中國如何滲透加拿大\n613587\t613827\t謝謝委員的指教\n634088\t634369\t黃捷委員提醒\n","txt":"好那我們請邱主委有請邱主委\n好 那好 謝謝主席因為其實最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話然後包括說地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達說因為最近大家在討論這個中退入籍縮短的事情其實大家都很有反應然後大家其實都蠻擔心的\n那這個擔心其實來自幾個層面第一個是其實最近大家在討論的健保那這個其實當然也有健保署也有說過他們有做過他們整體的評估了就是說如果年長者來這邊繳少用多的情況可能會有爭議那也會有公平性的疑慮那另外一部分還有包括對於民主跟國安的疑慮這個也是很多民眾來跟我反映的\n然後他們很希望說我們陸委會是不是在這件事情上面可以有個態度有個立場然後來把這件事情跟大家講清楚否則大家在這種疑慮當中對於台灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委首先第一個可以幫我放我的比較表格嗎有嗎\n暫停時間請助理麻煩處理一下好OK謝謝謝謝繼續好那當然因為大家知道說其實中國籍的配偶跟外籍的配偶的依據的法源不同一個是兩岸人民關係條例那外配的依據是國籍法這個是某法的不同那因為大家都認為說如果我們要一起討論那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論這樣才公平\n那這個是我做的比較的表格我想要問一下說如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話除了現在大家說的年限不同請問中配跟外配在取得身份證的條件上目前還有什麼不同可不可以請主委簡單說明\n基本上委員很用心大概把一般坊間大概或說一般老百姓所關注的這樣的一個差異性已經做了這樣的一個列表那其實事實上可能還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意所以我覺得這個是一個利弊得失可能要思考清楚再來做這樣的一個推動所以我想院長大概也在院會裡面\n也講說目前我們還在中整各界的意見暫時還沒有修法的這樣的計畫\n好 這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的就是說你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫但是其實已經有立委提案了然後也送案了那這個是如果我們陸委會都沒有相關的對策這樣是可以的嗎那當然沒關係你先等我講完我們一步一步來討論啦就是真的如果要談公平要談所有新住民的人權那當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平然後非常在乎人權的\n民意代表那所以我也很希望說如果真的可以我們就務實的一步一步來討論所以首先我想要請教第一步國籍的部分那其實這張表格也寫得很清楚目前中國籍是不需要放棄中國的國籍那外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子那在這種狀態之下接下來才有辦法拿到台灣的身份證的\n所以我想要問如果真的我們要比照國籍法的話是不是有機會來要求中國籍放棄中國的配偶放棄中國籍再拿到台灣的身份證我想一下問一下這樣實務上是可行的嗎這個可能會讓整個的法定的流程又要再重新做調整那這個恐怕就知識體大\n知事體大所以是說這個有辦法從藍岸人民關係條例裡面來進行修法嗎到底因為委員大家也知道我們在憲法的徵修條例上面在所謂的定位上面本來就把是不是國與國的關係嗎對那這樣的一個處理上面又所以如果要的話要進行修憲嗎\n是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程\n那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等\n那這個是他們入籍的宣誓的宣誓詞裡頭寫到的那甚至是澳洲還有入籍的就的入籍儀式必須要去到儀式的現場那是不是有機會就是如果中配他們也可以來就是使用這個就是入籍的儀式並且就是宣誓說我們效忠台灣這是有可能的嗎\n當然我想這個都是整體的配套的一些考量那我們目前陸委會所這個工作的重點方向就是說在他的在台灣的生活工作或者是社會福利上面我們都可以充分的一個照顧那以避免這種講白了真的比較正式性的這種意涵的這種程序或或者是儀式的恐怕這個要在大家求的共識\n這個是我就是想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分因為說實在其實在你們的報告裡面有寫到說去年中國已經修訂他們新的這個反間諜法那大家不知道也在這邊跟大家報告一下去年中國新修訂的這個反間諜法他們是把這個間諜的行為更擴大然後變得更籠統而且效力是數級既往的什麼意思呢就是你非常有可能無端入罪\n那甚至是我們在報告裡面有寫到啊就是我們台灣級的要出入進中國的時候他們對台灣人的盤查上升到兩倍就因為這個反間諜法甚至是你他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共那在這麼入\n要出入進中國越來越風險越來越高的情況下我們非常是不是會有相關的疑慮這個我覺得必須要正式的去面對而不是說我們避免政治性的爭議尤其是現在他們在反分裂國家法以及反間諜法之下\n他們是不是會有可能要求中國人來到台灣那甚至是舉報台獨這樣的行為出現都是有可能的那再來剛有提到入籍考試的部分這個其實我覺得就比較沒有所謂的你說的政治性\n臺灣幾年一次選舉公民義務違和\n當然我們都很希望陸配來台灣很快的能夠融入台灣民主法治跟憲政這樣的一個生活跟政治的期待所以在過去大法官也認為說如果期限可以讓他延長一點那融入更久一點那這個也許可能就會有這個跟我們國民同樣的這樣的一個憲政思維\n所以過去曾經有這樣的一個思考過所以才會把期限好所以是不是我希望說接下來如果真的要的話是不是這個規劃的考試也可以放進去那最後其實大家都有講到說因為外配入籍是可以4年然後希望中配也可以比照那其實如果真的去看這個條文裡面如果同樣是要住183天的話中配反而是4加2是6年外配是3加5反而是8年\n是這樣子嗎?\n主席\n其實如果這個中級的配偶入籍縮短最直接的影響就是可以更早投票\n中國如何滲透加拿大\n謝謝委員的指教\n黃捷委員提醒\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.128 --> 00:00.889\n好那我們請邱主委有請邱主委\n\n00:13.578 --> 00:30.894\n好那好謝謝主席因為其實最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話然後包括說地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達說因為最近大家在討論這個中退入籍縮短的事情其實大家都很有反應然後大家其實都蠻擔心的\n\n00:32.595 --> 00:57.887\n那這個擔心其實來自幾個層面第一個是其實最近大家在討論的健保那這個其實當然也有健保署也有說過他們有做過他們整體的評估了就是說如果年長者來這邊繳少用多的情況可能會有爭議那也會有公平性的疑慮那另外一部分還有包括對於民主跟國安的疑慮這個也是很多民眾來跟我反映的\n\n00:58.527 --> 01:19.928\n然後他們很希望說我們陸委會是不是在這件事情上面可以有個態度有個立場然後來把這件事情跟大家講清楚否則大家在這種疑慮當中對於台灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委首先第一個可以幫我放我的比較表格嗎有嗎\n\n01:25.672 --> 01:48.651\n暫停時間請助理麻煩處理一下好OK謝謝謝謝繼續好那當然因為大家知道說其實中國籍的配偶跟外籍的配偶的依據的法源不同一個是兩岸人民關係條例那外配的依據是國籍法這個是某法的不同那因為大家都認為說如果我們要一起討論那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論這樣才公平\n\n01:50.592 --> 02:05.686\n那這個是我做的比較的表格我想要問一下說如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話除了現在大家說的年限不同請問中配跟外配在取得身份證的條件上目前還有什麼不同可不可以請主委簡單說明\n\n02:07.283 --> 02:32.680\n基本上委員很用心大概把一般坊間大概或說一般老百姓所關注的這樣的一個差異性已經做了這樣的一個列表那其實事實上可能還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意所以我覺得這個是一個利弊得失可能要思考清楚再來做這樣的一個推動所以我想院長大概也在院會裡面\n\n02:33.681 --> 02:36.483\n也講說目前我們還在中整各界的意見暫時還沒有修法的這樣的計畫\n\n02:40.677 --> 02:46.501\n好這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的就是說你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫但是其實已經有立委提案了然後也送案了那這個是如果我們陸委會都沒有相關的對策這樣是可以的嗎那當然沒關係你先等我講完我們一步一步來討論啦就是真的如果要談公平要談所有新住民的人權那當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平然後非常在乎人權的\n\n03:11.157 --> 03:38.512\n民意代表那所以我也很希望說如果真的可以我們就務實的一步一步來討論所以首先我想要請教第一步國籍的部分那其實這張表格也寫得很清楚目前中國籍是不需要放棄中國的國籍那外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子那在這種狀態之下接下來才有辦法拿到台灣的身份證的\n\n03:39.352 --> 04:01.366\n所以我想要問如果真的我們要比照國籍法的話是不是有機會來要求中國籍放棄中國的配偶放棄中國籍再拿到台灣的身份證我想一下問一下這樣實務上是可行的嗎這個可能會讓整個的法定的流程又要再重新做調整那這個恐怕就知識體大\n\n04:05.508 --> 04:24.717\n知事體大所以是說這個有辦法從藍岸人民關係條例裡面來進行修法嗎到底因為委員大家也知道我們在憲法的徵修條例上面在所謂的定位上面本來就把是不是國與國的關係嗎對那這樣的一個處理上面又所以如果要的話要進行修憲嗎\n\n04:27.319 --> 04:54.461\n是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程\n\n04:56.062 --> 05:20.227\n那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等\n\n05:21.067 --> 05:45.007\n那這個是他們入籍的宣誓的宣誓詞裡頭寫到的那甚至是澳洲還有入籍的就的入籍儀式必須要去到儀式的現場那是不是有機會就是如果中配他們也可以來就是使用這個就是入籍的儀式並且就是宣誓說我們效忠台灣這是有可能的嗎\n\n05:46.668 --> 06:12.177\n當然我想這個都是整體的配套的一些考量那我們目前陸委會所這個工作的重點方向就是說在他的在台灣的生活工作或者是社會福利上面我們都可以充分的一個照顧那以避免這種講白了真的比較正式性的這種意涵的這種程序或或者是儀式的恐怕這個要在大家求的共識\n\n06:13.460 --> 06:40.025\n這個是我就是想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分因為說實在其實在你們的報告裡面有寫到說去年中國已經修訂他們新的這個反間諜法那大家不知道也在這邊跟大家報告一下去年中國新修訂的這個反間諜法他們是把這個間諜的行為更擴大然後變得更籠統而且效力是數級既往的什麼意思呢就是你非常有可能無端入罪\n\n06:40.885 --> 06:55.767\n那甚至是我們在報告裡面有寫到啊就是我們台灣級的要出入進中國的時候他們對台灣人的盤查上升到兩倍就因為這個反間諜法甚至是你他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共那在這麼入\n\n06:57.589 --> 07:13.835\n要出入進中國越來越風險越來越高的情況下我們非常是不是會有相關的疑慮這個我覺得必須要正式的去面對而不是說我們避免政治性的爭議尤其是現在他們在反分裂國家法以及反間諜法之下\n\n07:15.676 --> 07:20.343\n他們是不是會有可能要求中國人來到台灣那甚至是舉報台獨這樣的行為出現都是有可能的那再來剛有提到入籍考試的部分這個其實我覺得就比較沒有所謂的你說的政治性\n\n07:31.738 --> 07:32.358\n臺灣幾年一次選舉公民義務違和\n\n07:50.557 --> 08:03.164\n當然我們都很希望陸配來台灣很快的能夠融入台灣民主法治跟憲政這樣的一個生活跟政治的期待所以在過去大法官也認為說如果期限可以讓他延長一點那融入更久一點那這個也許可能就會有這個跟我們國民同樣的這樣的一個憲政思維\n\n08:18.852 --> 08:42.143\n所以過去曾經有這樣的一個思考過所以才會把期限好所以是不是我希望說接下來如果真的要的話是不是這個規劃的考試也可以放進去那最後其實大家都有講到說因為外配入籍是可以4年然後希望中配也可以比照那其實如果真的去看這個條文裡面如果同樣是要住183天的話中配反而是4加2是6年外配是3加5反而是8年\n\n08:48.366 --> 08:48.486\n是這樣子嗎?\n\n08:57.264 --> 08:57.304\n主席\n\n09:27.664 --> 09:29.446\n其實如果這個中級的配偶入籍縮短最直接的影響就是可以更早投票\n\n09:49.545 --> 09:49.785\n中國如何滲透加拿大\n\n10:13.587 --> 10:13.827\n謝謝委員的指教\n\n10:34.088 --> 10:34.369\n黃捷委員提醒\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.128,"end":0.889,"text":"好那我們請邱主委有請邱主委"},{"start":13.578,"end":30.894,"text":"好 那好 謝謝主席因為其實最近我的服務處接到非常多的電話然後包括說地方上的里長也都紛紛來跟我表達說因為最近大家在討論這個中退入籍縮短的事情其實大家都很有反應然後大家其實都蠻擔心的"},{"start":32.595,"end":57.887,"text":"那這個擔心其實來自幾個層面第一個是其實最近大家在討論的健保那這個其實當然也有健保署也有說過他們有做過他們整體的評估了就是說如果年長者來這邊繳少用多的情況可能會有爭議那也會有公平性的疑慮那另外一部分還有包括對於民主跟國安的疑慮這個也是很多民眾來跟我反映的"},{"start":58.527,"end":79.928,"text":"然後他們很希望說我們陸委會是不是在這件事情上面可以有個態度有個立場然後來把這件事情跟大家講清楚否則大家在這種疑慮當中對於台灣的未來其實是非常擔憂的所以我想要藉這個機會來請教一下主委首先第一個可以幫我放我的比較表格嗎有嗎"},{"start":85.672,"end":108.651,"text":"暫停時間請助理麻煩處理一下好OK謝謝謝謝繼續好那當然因為大家知道說其實中國籍的配偶跟外籍的配偶的依據的法源不同一個是兩岸人民關係條例那外配的依據是國籍法這個是某法的不同那因為大家都認為說如果我們要一起討論那就是國籍法跟兩岸人民關係條例一起來討論這樣才公平"},{"start":110.592,"end":125.686,"text":"那這個是我做的比較的表格我想要問一下說如果我們真的要一步一步來討論公平性的話除了現在大家說的年限不同請問中配跟外配在取得身份證的條件上目前還有什麼不同可不可以請主委簡單說明"},{"start":127.283,"end":152.68,"text":"基本上委員很用心大概把一般坊間大概或說一般老百姓所關注的這樣的一個差異性已經做了這樣的一個列表那其實事實上可能還有很多不同的面向也都必須要去注意所以我覺得這個是一個利弊得失可能要思考清楚再來做這樣的一個推動所以我想院長大概也在院會裡面"},{"start":153.681,"end":156.483,"text":"也講說目前我們還在中整各界的意見暫時還沒有修法的這樣的計畫"},{"start":160.677,"end":166.501,"text":"好 這其實是我想要來督促一下陸委會的就是說你們暫時沒有這樣的計畫但是其實已經有立委提案了然後也送案了那這個是如果我們陸委會都沒有相關的對策這樣是可以的嗎那當然沒關係你先等我講完我們一步一步來討論啦就是真的如果要談公平要談所有新住民的人權那當然我也是一個非常倡議人權要公平然後非常在乎人權的"},{"start":191.157,"end":218.512,"text":"民意代表那所以我也很希望說如果真的可以我們就務實的一步一步來討論所以首先我想要請教第一步國籍的部分那其實這張表格也寫得很清楚目前中國籍是不需要放棄中國的國籍那外籍的配偶一定要先放棄原有的國籍甚至是成為無戶籍的國民一陣子那在這種狀態之下接下來才有辦法拿到台灣的身份證的"},{"start":219.352,"end":241.366,"text":"所以我想要問如果真的我們要比照國籍法的話是不是有機會來要求中國籍放棄中國的配偶放棄中國籍再拿到台灣的身份證我想一下問一下這樣實務上是可行的嗎這個可能會讓整個的法定的流程又要再重新做調整那這個恐怕就知識體大"},{"start":245.508,"end":264.717,"text":"知事體大所以是說這個有辦法從藍岸人民關係條例裡面來進行修法嗎到底因為委員大家也知道我們在憲法的徵修條例上面在所謂的定位上面本來就把是不是國與國的關係嗎對那這樣的一個處理上面又所以如果要的話要進行修憲嗎"},{"start":267.319,"end":294.461,"text":"是這樣子這個問題就會比較複雜啦所以就是我們認為大家是不是在是好沒有關係因為確實也很多民眾在問說如果中國籍的配偶沒有辦法放棄他們的國籍的話那我們可以怎麼樣透過修法的程序來讓大家清楚的知道那我希望藉由這個機會讓民眾知道說接下來如果可能要面臨的不只是修兩岸人民關係條例然後包括要修憲等等的進程"},{"start":296.062,"end":320.227,"text":"那當然我覺得還有另外一種可行的方式是其實可以比較國外的做法例如美國例如澳洲美國做法是什麼呢就是你入籍的時候必須要有一個入籍的宣誓那宣誓的內容包括說我必須要效忠國家我必須要捍衛國家我必須要在國家有需要的時候跟大家一起站在第一線包括軍事上等等"},{"start":321.067,"end":345.007,"text":"那這個是他們入籍的宣誓的宣誓詞裡頭寫到的那甚至是澳洲還有入籍的就的入籍儀式必須要去到儀式的現場那是不是有機會就是如果中配他們也可以來就是使用這個就是入籍的儀式並且就是宣誓說我們效忠台灣這是有可能的嗎"},{"start":346.668,"end":372.177,"text":"當然我想這個都是整體的配套的一些考量那我們目前陸委會所這個工作的重點方向就是說在他的在台灣的生活工作或者是社會福利上面我們都可以充分的一個照顧那以避免這種講白了真的比較正式性的這種意涵的這種程序或或者是儀式的恐怕這個要在大家求的共識"},{"start":373.46,"end":400.025,"text":"這個是我就是想要請主委可以再更積極一點的部分因為說實在其實在你們的報告裡面有寫到說去年中國已經修訂他們新的這個反間諜法那大家不知道也在這邊跟大家報告一下去年中國新修訂的這個反間諜法他們是把這個間諜的行為更擴大然後變得更籠統而且效力是數級既往的什麼意思呢就是你非常有可能無端入罪"},{"start":400.885,"end":415.767,"text":"那甚至是我們在報告裡面有寫到啊就是我們台灣級的要出入進中國的時候他們對台灣人的盤查上升到兩倍就因為這個反間諜法甚至是你他會查你的通訊手機是不是有批判中共那在這麼入"},{"start":417.589,"end":433.835,"text":"要出入進中國越來越風險越來越高的情況下我們非常是不是會有相關的疑慮這個我覺得必須要正式的去面對而不是說我們避免政治性的爭議尤其是現在他們在反分裂國家法以及反間諜法之下"},{"start":435.676,"end":440.343,"text":"他們是不是會有可能要求中國人來到台灣那甚至是舉報台獨這樣的行為出現都是有可能的那再來剛有提到入籍考試的部分這個其實我覺得就比較沒有所謂的你說的政治性"},{"start":451.738,"end":452.358,"text":"臺灣幾年一次選舉公民義務違和"},{"start":470.557,"end":483.164,"text":"當然我們都很希望陸配來台灣很快的能夠融入台灣民主法治跟憲政這樣的一個生活跟政治的期待所以在過去大法官也認為說如果期限可以讓他延長一點那融入更久一點那這個也許可能就會有這個跟我們國民同樣的這樣的一個憲政思維"},{"start":498.852,"end":522.143,"text":"所以過去曾經有這樣的一個思考過所以才會把期限好所以是不是我希望說接下來如果真的要的話是不是這個規劃的考試也可以放進去那最後其實大家都有講到說因為外配入籍是可以4年然後希望中配也可以比照那其實如果真的去看這個條文裡面如果同樣是要住183天的話中配反而是4加2是6年外配是3加5反而是8年"},{"start":528.366,"end":528.486,"text":"是這樣子嗎?"},{"start":537.264,"end":537.304,"text":"主席"},{"start":567.664,"end":569.446,"text":"其實如果這個中級的配偶入籍縮短最直接的影響就是可以更早投票"},{"start":589.545,"end":589.785,"text":"中國如何滲透加拿大"},{"start":613.587,"end":613.827,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":634.088,"end":634.369,"text":"黃捷委員提醒"}]}}}}