{"id":149497,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149497","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe465104e055693ac2aaa95e40c3cff622f8ba9b0039caa7a6ea997af55ec8e5e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:27:21 - 10:43:09","影片長度":"00:15:48","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-4"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":948,"end_time":"2024-03-07T10:43:09+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T10:27:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1373,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時27分）謝謝主席。部長、法務部的同仁，大家好。我是思瑤，我是來法制委員會這裡學習的，如果有任何發言不夠精確，大家隨時指正，我們理性對話，我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場白，我不會說你們藐視國會，大家放心，言所當言、為所當為，這是我們每個人的職責，包括我現在拋出來的議題，我也是言所當言、為所當為。","推動反歧視法或平等法，Yes or No？這是我今天就教於大家的。我想先問一下部長，這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件，就是楊志良前署長去站臺的時候就說：「吳思瑤快五十歲了，不可能生，就要絕子絕孫了？」請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視？"],["蔡部長清祥：這是非常不恰當。"],["吳委員思瑤：就是對於性別、對於婚育的歧視。其實對我自己個人的傷害事小，我也很勇敢地告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求，我要告訴全天下的楊志良們，管好自己的嘴，女人的子宮輪不到你來管。對於我個人的傷害事小，但是我是國會議員，我正可以發揮更大的政策能量，把這樣一個單一的歧視事件能夠化為政策或是透過立法修法，讓它成為一個正向的意義，我不會放棄努力。","我也再一步請問，這就發生在剛開議的國會現場，有國民黨的黨鞭說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長，部長啊！你們是家禽家畜嗎？這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢？"],["蔡部長清祥：這樣非常的不尊重。"],["吳委員思瑤：非常的不尊重，這是對於職業的不尊重，而且貓狗好可愛喔！不要歧視貓狗，這樣子的職業歧視在國會議員的口中說出來，我認為非常的可議、也非常的可惡。官員都是有尊嚴、有專業、有臂膀的，絕對不是如這些委員所說的，家禽家畜一般就是被圈養的，我要替你們抗議。","又是一個最近的事件，很不幸離開我們的陳俊翰律師、人權律師，他一生為了臺灣的人權自由在奮鬥，他一生為了弱勢者、身心障礙者在奔走發聲，但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說臺灣的造勢場合就是一場秀，把殘疾人士推上去煽情，嚴重的傷害了我們的身心障礙者，這是不折不扣對於身障者的歧視吧？是不是？"],["蔡部長清祥：這非常的不對。"],["吳委員思瑤：非常的不對，所以我現在用的三個例子分別來自於對於性別的歧視、對於職業的歧視、乃至於對於身心障礙者、弱勢族群的歧視。再回到社會，校園一再出現歧視性的污名化言論，我們的教育現場失靈了嗎？就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族，再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族的言論，還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副會長時，也發生歧視性別、歧視原住民族的言論。校園都發生這樣的歧視言行，當然我過去在教育及文化委員會，我不斷地要求教育部門透過教育下手，導入正確的觀念。今天我在這裡，我質詢面對的，我有機會來跟法務部門的各位專家們對話。","部長，除了我剛剛說原住民族的、性別的、身障者的、職業的歧視之外，你能夠想像的歧視還有哪些？"],["蔡部長清祥：還有言論上、網路言論上的一些霸凌，還有在一些場合對人的不尊重。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，部長回答的是發生在哪些場域？如果說以現在，我剛剛提供的是幾種歧視的樣態，事實上歧視的樣態無所不在，包括對於語言是一種歧視，過去說臺語要罰錢，對不對？對於宗教會有歧視，對於黨派會有歧視、對於你的出生地、對於你的性傾向、對於你的年齡、對於你的容貌，常常我們會被講胖瘦美醜，包括對於各類的職業現場都有各種歧視，所以歧視是非常多的。","臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散列在各法，沒有一個一致性的原則，所以臺灣為什麼需要我在這裡倡議，我們需要一部反歧視法或者是稱為平等法，有幾個理由：第一個，讓人權條約國內法化，臺灣從1970年簽訂了「消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約」開始，我們陸陸續續簽訂了「公民與政治權利國際公約」、「經濟社會文化權利國際公約」、「消除對婦女一切形式歧視公約」、「兒童權利公約」、「身心障礙者權利公約」，在在的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議，包括3月21號快到了，是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日。在3月，我很有把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論，如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步，我認為非常有意義。","第二個理由，臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法？也正是我們要推動SDGs18項聯合國國際目標，大家都在遵循的，當中的第10點就是減少不平等，而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消弭，乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消弭，所以回應國際，也回應臺灣社會的現況，討論反歧視法或者是平等法，我認為此其時也。也跟部長報告。我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的，現行的法律是欠缺一致性的，當然，我們的性別平等教育法、性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的，我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的18個項目的歧視禁止；入出國及移民法、原住民族工作權保障法、監獄行刑法、羈押法對於反歧視條款都有清楚規範，但是散列於各法。","我跟你分享一下國際的經驗，加拿大人權法案於1977年就訂定，其訂定源自於世界人權宣言，它規範了歧視項目、歧視方法，透過騷擾或傷害，對於哪些生活領域，可能在職場、僱傭關係，或在各種服務的提供上都會面對被歧視的可能，所以它在組織上透過立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大人權委員會。看看德國，德國2006年整合了很多法規訂定了平等法，其歧視的樣態、歧視方法，歧視會發生的生活領域都非常清楚的兼顧，而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局。英國2010年的平等法更進步，甚至納入了性別重置，也就是變性人也不能被歧視，英國回映在組織面向成立了英國平等及人權委員會，從2006年先訂定平等法，到2010年進一步有一個第二版，2.0的平等法。再看看瑞典，它把9部像臺灣散列各法的反歧視法融合成一法，2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了，他們設立的組織是平等監察使。","我們鄰近的好朋友日本，2016年有一個全國性的消除仇恨性言論法，這是中央法規，我也看到國際期刊指出，2020年川崎市地方市議會進一步透過地方市議會的立法，訂定川崎市的反歧視條例，經勸告命令，如果說不聽，勸告無效，6個月內三度違規可以公開這個歧視者的姓名資訊，然後進一步刑事告發，最高可處50萬日元。因為日本跟我們比較近，也比較接近2020年的新法，我花一點時間來論述。我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡？部長，第一個，臺灣已經有立委提案了，而且是不分黨派，國民黨有反族群歧視法，民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法，已經有4個委員的提案待審中，但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向，很多都是原住民族委員提出的。","反歧視法在臺灣，我剛剛整理的東西就是你們這一本，法務部2019年跟中研院合作的，我裡面有密密麻麻的筆記，所有的PPT都來自於我詳讀你們的資料，你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文，你們在組織面還主張中央主管機關要成立行政院平等處，地方主管機關是各縣市政府、直轄市政府要成立平等委員會，監察機關、監督機關是國家人權委員會。建立禁止制度包括救濟途徑、罰則機制、標準如何定，你們都細緻的做到，包括需要保護的歧視面向，你們都列了。","除了法務部在做，我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展，他們開了好幾場公聽會，我都有蒐集這些資料，所以臺灣政府不是沒有準備。陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢時也承諾，他在去年上個會期接受質詢時承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法，但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視，然後責成內政部去談。現在就是個問題了，我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視法律、反歧視的法律，還有法務部你們自己做好調研的，我如果沒有給你們壓力，沒有提出這個提醒，很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條。","可是這是一個機會，我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視，all in one以一部專法來處理，否則內政部去處理種族歧視的，性別的放在性別平等三法裡面，我們又回到一個散列的困境，主管機關沒有辦法整合，社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性，所以這是一個機會。部長，我今天提出來的倡議，你認為法務部要不要更積極地去研議，你們有的委外研究，跟你們已經有的具體版本，要不要跟內政部談談，要不要跟人權平等處談談，你的看法呢？"],["蔡部長清祥：真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究，剛剛委員所提示的這些重點，希望法務部能夠盡力，我們會在行政院人權處開會的時候做充分的表達。"],["吳委員思瑤：你的專業意見呢？你同意我的說法all in one，由法務部來提出一個平等法或是反歧視法，或是內政部去走種族歧視法，維持這種散列式的？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們做過研究，我們會提供這個研究的結論給行政院人權處。"],["吳委員思瑤：這一本你有沒有看過？你知道嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我沒有深入，我知道我們有做研究，但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容，但是我們會以這個研究報告提供給現在主責的行政院人權處做參考。"],["吳委員思瑤：我給你2個月去對話跟研議，好嗎？我不是說2個月就要端出法案，而是你們研議、Cooking跨部會怎麼來分工，是All in one的方式，還是先走種族的反歧視法？我給你們2個月時間，你好好再跟跨部會去談一談，好嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我會轉達給行政院人權處，因為它現在在整合、在主責。"],["吳委員思瑤：不要只是轉達，我看這本很完整、很好，你們能夠do more and do better。"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：我跟部長報告，法律面維持法秩序的一致性；組織面整合所有的政策工具，單一組織來推展；制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視及平等價值觀念，在臺灣可以可長可久的推展下去，所以我認為一部專法是需要的。但是同時我也聽到社會不同的意見，他們擔心這樣會不會對於言論有太多的管控，有很多可以對話，所以透過對話匯聚共識，立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具。我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別歧視事件，我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外，我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師，我們要為這樣一個可貴的臺灣人格者持續不斷地奮鬥下去，臺灣不能再有任何人輕易地對於另外的人說出歧視性的言論，我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任和使命奮鬥下去。部長，積極一點，你能做的不是只有轉達，這一本寫得很好，我也可以用你們的版本來提案成為我的業績，但我不會，我希望有更多元的討論，然後我們大家一起來cooking這個政策，好嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員思瑤：帶著陳俊翰律師給我們的使命，大家要更有責任感，更有使命感，我們一起加油，謝謝主席多給我時間，謝謝。"],["主席：請翁委員曉玲發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-4","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,190 --> 00:00:04,522\n發言好謝謝主席\n\n2\n00:00:08,047 --> 00:00:33,768\n法務部同仁大家好我是思瑤我是法制委員會來這裡學習的那如果有任何發言有不夠精確大家隨時指正我們理性對話我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場牌我不會說你們藐視國會大家放心言所當言為所當為這是我每個人的職責包括我現在拋出來的議題我也是言所當言為所當為\n\n3\n00:00:35,189 --> 00:00:57,045\n推動反歧視法或平等法yesorno這是我今天就教於大家的好下一頁我想先問一下部長這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件就是有這個楊志良前署長去站台的時候就說了吳思瑤賣狗雜貝啊沒可能生啊啦啊絕子絕孫了\n\n4\n00:01:02,473 --> 00:01:31,058\n請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視這是非常不恰當這是對於性別對於婚育的歧視那其實對我自己的個人的傷害是小我也很勇敢的告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求我要告訴全天下的楊志良們管好自己的嘴女人的子宮輪不到你來管\n\n5\n00:01:32,369 --> 00:01:33,310\n下一頁我也再一步請問這就發生在剛開議的國會現場\n\n6\n00:01:59,301 --> 00:02:25,275\n有國民黨的黨編說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長部長啊你是家禽家畜嗎這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢這樣非常的不尊重非常的不尊重就對於職業的不尊重而且貓狗好可愛喔不要歧視貓狗\n\n7\n00:02:27,731 --> 00:02:27,851\n下一頁\n\n8\n00:02:53,052 --> 00:03:19,349\n又是一個最近的事件很不幸的離開了我們的陳俊翰律師人權律師他一生為了台灣的人權自由在奮鬥他一生為了弱勢者身心障礙者在奔走發聲但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說台灣的造勢場合就是一場秀把殘疾人士推上去煽情\n\n9\n00:03:21,075 --> 00:03:21,435\n再回到社會\n\n10\n00:03:48,346 --> 00:04:07,621\n校園一再的出現歧視性的污名化的言論我們的教育現場失靈了嗎就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族\n\n11\n00:04:08,482 --> 00:04:26,288\n的言論．還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副院．正副會長也發生歧視性別．歧視原住民族的言論．校園都發生這樣的歧視言行．\n\n12\n00:04:27,421 --> 00:04:28,482\n網路言論上的一些霸凌\n\n13\n00:04:57,697 --> 00:04:59,339\n事實上歧視的樣態無所不在\n\n14\n00:05:13,697 --> 00:05:15,038\n臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散裂在各法\n\n15\n00:05:43,444 --> 00:05:43,464\n吳思瑤議員\n\n16\n00:05:59,943 --> 00:06:25,100\n來簽訂了消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約開始我們陸陸續續的簽訂了公民與政治權利國際公約經濟社會文化權利國際公約消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約兒童權利公約身心障礙者權利公約再再的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議包括3月21號快到了是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日\n\n17\n00:06:26,587 --> 00:06:52,953\n那在3月我很把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步我認為非常有意義第二個理由下一頁臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法也正是我們要推動SDGS18項聯合國國際大家都在遵循的當中的第10點就是減少不平等\n\n18\n00:06:53,573 --> 00:07:07,119\n而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消滅乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消滅所以回應國際也回應台灣社會的現況\n\n19\n00:07:09,729 --> 00:07:29,828\n討論反歧視法或者是平等法：我認為此期時也。下一頁也跟部長報告我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的現行的法律是欠缺一致性的當然我們性別平等教育法性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的是18個項目的歧視\n\n20\n00:07:33,311 --> 00:07:47,584\n他禁止入出國籍移民法、原住民族工作權益保障法、監獄刑刑法、羈押法都有清楚的對於反歧視條款但是他散列於各法下一頁\n\n21\n00:07:49,042 --> 00:08:18,166\n那我跟您分享一下國際的經驗加拿大人權法1977年就定了他的定定是源自於世界人權宣言他的歧視項目歧視的方法透過騷擾或傷害對於哪些生活領域可能在職場在僱傭關係在各種服務的提供上都可能面對了被歧視的可能所以他在組織上透過一個立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大的人權委員會好下一頁\n\n22\n00:08:19,420 --> 00:08:29,385\n看看德國德國2006年整合了很多的法規訂定了平等法他的歧視的樣態歧視的方法歧視會發生的生活領域\n\n23\n00:08:30,495 --> 00:08:56,997\n他都非常清楚的兼顧而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局在下一頁英國2010年的平等法他更進步他甚至納入了性別重制也就是變性人也不能被歧視那英國回應在組織面向他成立了英國平等及人權委員會他從2006年先訂定平等法到2010年進一步有一個\n\n24\n00:08:57,978 --> 00:09:14,608\n第二版2.0的平等法下一頁再看看瑞典他把九部反歧視法向臺灣散列各法把它融合成一法在2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了他們定定的設立的組織是平等監察室\n\n25\n00:09:15,589 --> 00:09:35,598\n在下一頁我們鄰近的好朋友日本2016年全國性的有一個消除仇恨言論法這是中央法規進一步的地方政府我也看到國際的期刊2020年川崎市這個地方市議會進一步的透過地方市議會的立法來訂定川崎市的反歧視條例\n\n26\n00:09:37,159 --> 00:10:02,121\n而他進一步的勸告命令如果說不聽勸告無效6個月內三度違規我可以公開你這個歧視者的姓名資訊然後進一步刑事告發最高可處50萬日元因為日本跟我們比較近他也比較接近2020年的新法文花一點時間來論述所以我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡下一頁部長\n\n27\n00:10:03,766 --> 00:10:21,364\n第一臺灣已經有立委提了不分黨派國民黨也有反族群歧視法民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法已經有4個委員的提案待審中但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向那很多都是原住民族的委員提出的下一頁\n\n28\n00:10:22,682 --> 00:10:36,411\n反歧視法在臺灣我剛整理的東西就是你們這一本部長法務部2019年做的跟中研院合作的我裡面密密麻麻的筆記我所有的PPT都來自於我想讀你們的資料\n\n29\n00:10:37,628 --> 00:11:03,770\n你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文你們在組織面還主張說中央主管機關行政院平等處要成立地方主管機關是各縣市政府市政府要成立平等委員會那監察機關呢監督機關是國家人權委員會禁止制度包括救濟的途徑罰則機制標準如何訂你們都細緻的做到包括需要保護的歧視面向你們都列了\n\n30\n00:11:04,691 --> 00:11:20,166\n除了法務部在做我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展開了好幾場公聽會我都有收集這些資料所以臺灣的政府不是沒有準備在下一頁\n\n31\n00:11:21,813 --> 00:11:46,636\n陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢的時候他也承諾這個是去年接受質詢上個會期他承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視然後他責成內政部去談現在就是個問題了我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視的法律\n\n32\n00:11:47,771 --> 00:12:12,883\n反歧視的法律還有法務部你們自己做好調研我如果沒有給你們壓力沒有提出這個提醒很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條可是這是一個機會我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視allinone一部專法來處理它否則內政部去處理種族歧視的然後性別的放在性別平等三法裡頭我們又回到一個散裂\n\n33\n00:12:17,383 --> 00:12:40,329\n的困境主管機關沒有辦法整合然後社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性所以這是一個機會最後也部長您覺得我今天提出來的倡議您認為法務部要不要更積極的去研議你們有的委外研究跟你們已經有的具體版本\n\n34\n00:12:41,409 --> 00:13:03,751\n要不要跟內政部談談?要不要跟人權這個平等處談談?您的看法呢?是真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究那剛剛委員所提示的這些重點希望能夠法務部能夠盡力我們會在行政院的人權處開會的時候來做充分的表達\n\n35\n00:13:04,454 --> 00:13:32,174\n那您的專業意見您同意我的說法是allinone由法務部來做一個平等法或是反歧視法或者是好內政部去走你的種族歧視法我們做做研究當然我們會提供這個研究的結論講給行政院人權處你知不知道我知不知道我有沒有做研究但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容但是我們會以這個研究的報告提供給現在在主責的行政院人權處做參考\n\n36\n00:13:33,635 --> 00:13:51,913\n我跟您兩個月去對話跟研議好嗎兩個月來跟我講我不是說兩個月要端出法案而是說你們研議cooking跨部會怎麼來分工我們是allinone的方式還是先走種族的反歧視的法我跟你們兩個月時間您好好再跟大家跨部會去談一談好嗎\n\n37\n00:13:53,161 --> 00:14:02,672\n我會轉達給行政院人權署因為他現在在整合他在主責不要只是轉達我看這本很完整的很好你們能夠Domoreanddobetter\n\n38\n00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:22,710\n法律面維持法制序的一致性組織面整合所有的政策工具單一組織來推展制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視跟平等的價值跟觀念在台灣可以\n\n39\n00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:23,490\n．吳思瑤\n\n40\n00:14:39,918 --> 00:14:56,081\n立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別的歧視的事件我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師\n\n41\n00:14:57,338 --> 00:15:10,251\n我們要為這樣一個可貴的台灣的人格者持續不斷的奮鬥下去台灣不能再有任何人輕易的對於另外的人\n\n42\n00:15:11,914 --> 00:15:24,560\n親自發表歧視性的言論我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任跟使命奮鬥下去部長積極一點您能做的不是只有轉達這一本寫得很好\n\n43\n00:15:27,705 --> 00:15:27,785\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n190\t4522\t發言好謝謝主席\n8047\t33768\t法務部同仁大家好我是思瑤我是法制委員會來這裡學習的那如果有任何發言有不夠精確大家隨時指正我們理性對話我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場牌我不會說你們藐視國會大家放心言所當言為所當為這是我每個人的職責包括我現在拋出來的議題我也是言所當言為所當為\n35189\t57045\t推動反歧視法或平等法yes or no這是我今天就教於大家的好下一頁我想先問一下部長這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件就是有這個楊志良前署長去站台的時候就說了吳思瑤賣狗雜貝啊沒可能生啊啦啊 絕子絕孫了\n62473\t91058\t請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視這是非常不恰當這是對於性別對於婚育的歧視那其實對我自己的個人的傷害是小我也很勇敢的告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求我要告訴全天下的楊志良們管好自己的嘴女人的子宮輪不到你來管\n92369\t93310\t下一頁我也再一步請問這就發生在剛開議的國會現場\n119301\t145275\t有國民黨的黨編說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長部長啊你是家禽家畜嗎這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢這樣非常的不尊重非常的不尊重就對於職業的不尊重而且貓狗好可愛喔不要歧視貓狗\n147731\t147851\t下一頁\n173052\t199349\t又是一個最近的事件很不幸的離開了我們的陳俊翰律師人權律師他一生為了台灣的人權自由在奮鬥他一生為了弱勢者身心障礙者在奔走發聲但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說台灣的造勢場合就是一場秀把殘疾人士推上去煽情\n201075\t201435\t再回到社會\n228346\t247621\t校園一再的出現歧視性的污名化的言論我們的教育現場失靈了嗎就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族\n248482\t266288\t的言論．還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副院．正副會長也發生歧視性別．歧視原住民族的言論．校園都發生這樣的歧視言行．\n267421\t268482\t網路言論上的一些霸凌\n297697\t299339\t事實上歧視的樣態無所不在\n313697\t315038\t臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散裂在各法\n343444\t343464\t吳思瑤議員\n359943\t385100\t來簽訂了消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約開始我們陸陸續續的簽訂了公民與政治權利國際公約經濟社會文化權利國際公約消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約兒童權利公約身心障礙者權利公約再再的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議包括3月21號快到了是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日\n386587\t412953\t那在3月我很把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步我認為非常有意義第二個理由下一頁臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法也正是我們要推動SDGS18項聯合國國際大家都在遵循的當中的第10點就是減少不平等\n413573\t427119\t而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消滅乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消滅所以回應國際也回應台灣社會的現況\n429729\t449828\t討論反歧視法或者是平等法：我認為此期時也。下一頁也跟部長報告我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的現行的法律是欠缺一致性的當然我們性別平等教育法性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的是18個項目的歧視\n453311\t467584\t他禁止入出國籍移民法、原住民族工作權益保障法、監獄刑刑法、羈押法都有清楚的對於反歧視條款但是他散列於各法下一頁\n469042\t498166\t那我跟您分享一下國際的經驗加拿大人權法1977年就定了他的定定是源自於世界人權宣言他的歧視項目歧視的方法透過騷擾或傷害對於哪些生活領域可能在職場在僱傭關係在各種服務的提供上都可能面對了被歧視的可能所以他在組織上透過一個立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大的人權委員會好下一頁\n499420\t509385\t看看德國德國2006年整合了很多的法規訂定了平等法他的歧視的樣態歧視的方法歧視會發生的生活領域\n510495\t536997\t他都非常清楚的兼顧而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局在下一頁英國2010年的平等法他更進步他甚至納入了性別重制也就是變性人也不能被歧視那英國回應在組織面向他成立了英國平等及人權委員會他從2006年先訂定平等法到2010年進一步有一個\n537978\t554608\t第二版2.0的平等法下一頁再看看瑞典他把九部反歧視法向臺灣散列各法把它融合成一法在2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了他們定定的設立的組織是平等監察室\n555589\t575598\t在下一頁我們鄰近的好朋友日本2016年全國性的有一個消除仇恨言論法這是中央法規進一步的地方政府我也看到國際的期刊2020年川崎市這個地方市議會進一步的透過地方市議會的立法來訂定川崎市的反歧視條例\n577159\t602121\t而他進一步的勸告命令如果說不聽勸告無效6個月內三度違規我可以公開你這個歧視者的姓名資訊然後進一步刑事告發最高可處50萬日元因為日本跟我們比較近他也比較接近2020年的新法文花一點時間來論述所以我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡下一頁部長\n603766\t621364\t第一 臺灣已經有立委提了不分黨派國民黨也有反族群歧視法民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法已經有4個委員的提案待審中但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向那很多都是原住民族的委員提出的下一頁\n622682\t636411\t反歧視法在臺灣我剛整理的東西就是你們這一本部長法務部2019年做的跟中研院合作的我裡面密密麻麻的筆記我所有的PPT都來自於我想讀你們的資料\n637628\t663770\t你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文你們在組織面還主張說中央主管機關行政院平等處要成立地方主管機關是各縣市政府市政府要成立平等委員會那監察機關呢監督機關是國家人權委員會禁止制度包括救濟的途徑罰則機制標準如何訂你們都細緻的做到包括需要保護的歧視面向你們都列了\n664691\t680166\t除了法務部在做我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展開了好幾場公聽會我都有收集這些資料所以臺灣的政府不是沒有準備在下一頁\n681813\t706636\t陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢的時候他也承諾這個是去年接受質詢上個會期他承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視然後他責成內政部去談現在就是個問題了我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視的法律\n707771\t732883\t反歧視的法律還有法務部你們自己做好調研我如果沒有給你們壓力沒有提出這個提醒很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條可是這是一個機會我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視all in one一部專法來處理它否則內政部去處理種族歧視的然後性別的放在性別平等三法裡頭我們又回到一個散裂\n737383\t760329\t的困境主管機關沒有辦法整合然後社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性所以這是一個機會最後也部長您覺得我今天提出來的倡議您認為法務部要不要更積極的去研議你們有的委外研究跟你們已經有的具體版本\n761409\t783751\t要不要跟內政部談談?要不要跟人權這個平等處談談?您的看法呢?是真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究那剛剛委員所提示的這些重點希望能夠法務部能夠盡力我們會在行政院的人權處開會的時候來做充分的表達\n784454\t812174\t那您的專業意見您同意我的說法是all in one由法務部來做一個平等法或是反歧視法或者是好內政部去走你的種族歧視法我們做做研究當然我們會提供這個研究的結論講給行政院人權處你知不知道我知不知道我有沒有做研究但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容但是我們會以這個研究的報告提供給現在在主責的行政院人權處做參考\n813635\t831913\t我跟您兩個月去對話跟研議好嗎兩個月來跟我講我不是說兩個月要端出法案而是說你們研議cooking跨部會怎麼來分工我們是all in one的方式還是先走種族的反歧視的法我跟你們兩個月時間您好好再跟大家跨部會去談一談好嗎\n833161\t842672\t我會轉達給行政院人權署因為他現在在整合他在主責不要只是轉達我看這本很完整的很好你們能夠Do more and do better\n848500\t862710\t法律面維持法制序的一致性組織面整合所有的政策工具單一組織來推展制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視跟平等的價值跟觀念在台灣可以\n863470\t863490\t．吳思瑤\n879918\t896081\t立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別的歧視的事件我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師\n897338\t910251\t我們要為這樣一個可貴的台灣的人格者持續不斷的奮鬥下去台灣不能再有任何人輕易的對於另外的人\n911914\t924560\t親自發表歧視性的言論我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任跟使命奮鬥下去部長 積極一點您能做的不是只有轉達這一本 寫得很好\n927705\t927785\t主席\n","txt":"發言好謝謝主席\n法務部同仁大家好我是思瑤我是法制委員會來這裡學習的那如果有任何發言有不夠精確大家隨時指正我們理性對話我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場牌我不會說你們藐視國會大家放心言所當言為所當為這是我每個人的職責包括我現在拋出來的議題我也是言所當言為所當為\n推動反歧視法或平等法yes or no這是我今天就教於大家的好下一頁我想先問一下部長這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件就是有這個楊志良前署長去站台的時候就說了吳思瑤賣狗雜貝啊沒可能生啊啦啊 絕子絕孫了\n請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視這是非常不恰當這是對於性別對於婚育的歧視那其實對我自己的個人的傷害是小我也很勇敢的告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求我要告訴全天下的楊志良們管好自己的嘴女人的子宮輪不到你來管\n下一頁我也再一步請問這就發生在剛開議的國會現場\n有國民黨的黨編說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長部長啊你是家禽家畜嗎這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢這樣非常的不尊重非常的不尊重就對於職業的不尊重而且貓狗好可愛喔不要歧視貓狗\n下一頁\n又是一個最近的事件很不幸的離開了我們的陳俊翰律師人權律師他一生為了台灣的人權自由在奮鬥他一生為了弱勢者身心障礙者在奔走發聲但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說台灣的造勢場合就是一場秀把殘疾人士推上去煽情\n再回到社會\n校園一再的出現歧視性的污名化的言論我們的教育現場失靈了嗎就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族\n的言論．還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副院．正副會長也發生歧視性別．歧視原住民族的言論．校園都發生這樣的歧視言行．\n網路言論上的一些霸凌\n事實上歧視的樣態無所不在\n臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散裂在各法\n吳思瑤議員\n來簽訂了消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約開始我們陸陸續續的簽訂了公民與政治權利國際公約經濟社會文化權利國際公約消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約兒童權利公約身心障礙者權利公約再再的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議包括3月21號快到了是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日\n那在3月我很把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步我認為非常有意義第二個理由下一頁臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法也正是我們要推動SDGS18項聯合國國際大家都在遵循的當中的第10點就是減少不平等\n而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消滅乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消滅所以回應國際也回應台灣社會的現況\n討論反歧視法或者是平等法：我認為此期時也。下一頁也跟部長報告我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的現行的法律是欠缺一致性的當然我們性別平等教育法性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的是18個項目的歧視\n他禁止入出國籍移民法、原住民族工作權益保障法、監獄刑刑法、羈押法都有清楚的對於反歧視條款但是他散列於各法下一頁\n那我跟您分享一下國際的經驗加拿大人權法1977年就定了他的定定是源自於世界人權宣言他的歧視項目歧視的方法透過騷擾或傷害對於哪些生活領域可能在職場在僱傭關係在各種服務的提供上都可能面對了被歧視的可能所以他在組織上透過一個立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大的人權委員會好下一頁\n看看德國德國2006年整合了很多的法規訂定了平等法他的歧視的樣態歧視的方法歧視會發生的生活領域\n他都非常清楚的兼顧而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局在下一頁英國2010年的平等法他更進步他甚至納入了性別重制也就是變性人也不能被歧視那英國回應在組織面向他成立了英國平等及人權委員會他從2006年先訂定平等法到2010年進一步有一個\n第二版2.0的平等法下一頁再看看瑞典他把九部反歧視法向臺灣散列各法把它融合成一法在2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了他們定定的設立的組織是平等監察室\n在下一頁我們鄰近的好朋友日本2016年全國性的有一個消除仇恨言論法這是中央法規進一步的地方政府我也看到國際的期刊2020年川崎市這個地方市議會進一步的透過地方市議會的立法來訂定川崎市的反歧視條例\n而他進一步的勸告命令如果說不聽勸告無效6個月內三度違規我可以公開你這個歧視者的姓名資訊然後進一步刑事告發最高可處50萬日元因為日本跟我們比較近他也比較接近2020年的新法文花一點時間來論述所以我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡下一頁部長\n第一 臺灣已經有立委提了不分黨派國民黨也有反族群歧視法民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法已經有4個委員的提案待審中但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向那很多都是原住民族的委員提出的下一頁\n反歧視法在臺灣我剛整理的東西就是你們這一本部長法務部2019年做的跟中研院合作的我裡面密密麻麻的筆記我所有的PPT都來自於我想讀你們的資料\n你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文你們在組織面還主張說中央主管機關行政院平等處要成立地方主管機關是各縣市政府市政府要成立平等委員會那監察機關呢監督機關是國家人權委員會禁止制度包括救濟的途徑罰則機制標準如何訂你們都細緻的做到包括需要保護的歧視面向你們都列了\n除了法務部在做我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展開了好幾場公聽會我都有收集這些資料所以臺灣的政府不是沒有準備在下一頁\n陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢的時候他也承諾這個是去年接受質詢上個會期他承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視然後他責成內政部去談現在就是個問題了我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視的法律\n反歧視的法律還有法務部你們自己做好調研我如果沒有給你們壓力沒有提出這個提醒很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條可是這是一個機會我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視all in one一部專法來處理它否則內政部去處理種族歧視的然後性別的放在性別平等三法裡頭我們又回到一個散裂\n的困境主管機關沒有辦法整合然後社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性所以這是一個機會最後也部長您覺得我今天提出來的倡議您認為法務部要不要更積極的去研議你們有的委外研究跟你們已經有的具體版本\n要不要跟內政部談談?要不要跟人權這個平等處談談?您的看法呢?是真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究那剛剛委員所提示的這些重點希望能夠法務部能夠盡力我們會在行政院的人權處開會的時候來做充分的表達\n那您的專業意見您同意我的說法是all in one由法務部來做一個平等法或是反歧視法或者是好內政部去走你的種族歧視法我們做做研究當然我們會提供這個研究的結論講給行政院人權處你知不知道我知不知道我有沒有做研究但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容但是我們會以這個研究的報告提供給現在在主責的行政院人權處做參考\n我跟您兩個月去對話跟研議好嗎兩個月來跟我講我不是說兩個月要端出法案而是說你們研議cooking跨部會怎麼來分工我們是all in one的方式還是先走種族的反歧視的法我跟你們兩個月時間您好好再跟大家跨部會去談一談好嗎\n我會轉達給行政院人權署因為他現在在整合他在主責不要只是轉達我看這本很完整的很好你們能夠Do more and do better\n法律面維持法制序的一致性組織面整合所有的政策工具單一組織來推展制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視跟平等的價值跟觀念在台灣可以\n．吳思瑤\n立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別的歧視的事件我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師\n我們要為這樣一個可貴的台灣的人格者持續不斷的奮鬥下去台灣不能再有任何人輕易的對於另外的人\n親自發表歧視性的言論我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任跟使命奮鬥下去部長 積極一點您能做的不是只有轉達這一本 寫得很好\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.190 --> 00:04.522\n發言好謝謝主席\n\n00:08.047 --> 00:33.768\n法務部同仁大家好我是思瑤我是法制委員會來這裡學習的那如果有任何發言有不夠精確大家隨時指正我們理性對話我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場牌我不會說你們藐視國會大家放心言所當言為所當為這是我每個人的職責包括我現在拋出來的議題我也是言所當言為所當為\n\n00:35.189 --> 00:57.045\n推動反歧視法或平等法yesorno這是我今天就教於大家的好下一頁我想先問一下部長這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件就是有這個楊志良前署長去站台的時候就說了吳思瑤賣狗雜貝啊沒可能生啊啦啊絕子絕孫了\n\n01:02.473 --> 01:31.058\n請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視這是非常不恰當這是對於性別對於婚育的歧視那其實對我自己的個人的傷害是小我也很勇敢的告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求我要告訴全天下的楊志良們管好自己的嘴女人的子宮輪不到你來管\n\n01:32.369 --> 01:33.310\n下一頁我也再一步請問這就發生在剛開議的國會現場\n\n01:59.301 --> 02:25.275\n有國民黨的黨編說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長部長啊你是家禽家畜嗎這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢這樣非常的不尊重非常的不尊重就對於職業的不尊重而且貓狗好可愛喔不要歧視貓狗\n\n02:27.731 --> 02:27.851\n下一頁\n\n02:53.052 --> 03:19.349\n又是一個最近的事件很不幸的離開了我們的陳俊翰律師人權律師他一生為了台灣的人權自由在奮鬥他一生為了弱勢者身心障礙者在奔走發聲但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說台灣的造勢場合就是一場秀把殘疾人士推上去煽情\n\n03:21.075 --> 03:21.435\n再回到社會\n\n03:48.346 --> 04:07.621\n校園一再的出現歧視性的污名化的言論我們的教育現場失靈了嗎就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族\n\n04:08.482 --> 04:26.288\n的言論．還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副院．正副會長也發生歧視性別．歧視原住民族的言論．校園都發生這樣的歧視言行．\n\n04:27.421 --> 04:28.482\n網路言論上的一些霸凌\n\n04:57.697 --> 04:59.339\n事實上歧視的樣態無所不在\n\n05:13.697 --> 05:15.038\n臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散裂在各法\n\n05:43.444 --> 05:43.464\n吳思瑤議員\n\n05:59.943 --> 06:25.100\n來簽訂了消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約開始我們陸陸續續的簽訂了公民與政治權利國際公約經濟社會文化權利國際公約消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約兒童權利公約身心障礙者權利公約再再的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議包括3月21號快到了是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日\n\n06:26.587 --> 06:52.953\n那在3月我很把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步我認為非常有意義第二個理由下一頁臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法也正是我們要推動SDGS18項聯合國國際大家都在遵循的當中的第10點就是減少不平等\n\n06:53.573 --> 07:07.119\n而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消滅乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消滅所以回應國際也回應台灣社會的現況\n\n07:09.729 --> 07:29.828\n討論反歧視法或者是平等法：我認為此期時也。下一頁也跟部長報告我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的現行的法律是欠缺一致性的當然我們性別平等教育法性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的是18個項目的歧視\n\n07:33.311 --> 07:47.584\n他禁止入出國籍移民法、原住民族工作權益保障法、監獄刑刑法、羈押法都有清楚的對於反歧視條款但是他散列於各法下一頁\n\n07:49.042 --> 08:18.166\n那我跟您分享一下國際的經驗加拿大人權法1977年就定了他的定定是源自於世界人權宣言他的歧視項目歧視的方法透過騷擾或傷害對於哪些生活領域可能在職場在僱傭關係在各種服務的提供上都可能面對了被歧視的可能所以他在組織上透過一個立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大的人權委員會好下一頁\n\n08:19.420 --> 08:29.385\n看看德國德國2006年整合了很多的法規訂定了平等法他的歧視的樣態歧視的方法歧視會發生的生活領域\n\n08:30.495 --> 08:56.997\n他都非常清楚的兼顧而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局在下一頁英國2010年的平等法他更進步他甚至納入了性別重制也就是變性人也不能被歧視那英國回應在組織面向他成立了英國平等及人權委員會他從2006年先訂定平等法到2010年進一步有一個\n\n08:57.978 --> 09:14.608\n第二版2.0的平等法下一頁再看看瑞典他把九部反歧視法向臺灣散列各法把它融合成一法在2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了他們定定的設立的組織是平等監察室\n\n09:15.589 --> 09:35.598\n在下一頁我們鄰近的好朋友日本2016年全國性的有一個消除仇恨言論法這是中央法規進一步的地方政府我也看到國際的期刊2020年川崎市這個地方市議會進一步的透過地方市議會的立法來訂定川崎市的反歧視條例\n\n09:37.159 --> 10:02.121\n而他進一步的勸告命令如果說不聽勸告無效6個月內三度違規我可以公開你這個歧視者的姓名資訊然後進一步刑事告發最高可處50萬日元因為日本跟我們比較近他也比較接近2020年的新法文花一點時間來論述所以我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡下一頁部長\n\n10:03.766 --> 10:21.364\n第一臺灣已經有立委提了不分黨派國民黨也有反族群歧視法民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法已經有4個委員的提案待審中但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向那很多都是原住民族的委員提出的下一頁\n\n10:22.682 --> 10:36.411\n反歧視法在臺灣我剛整理的東西就是你們這一本部長法務部2019年做的跟中研院合作的我裡面密密麻麻的筆記我所有的PPT都來自於我想讀你們的資料\n\n10:37.628 --> 11:03.770\n你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文你們在組織面還主張說中央主管機關行政院平等處要成立地方主管機關是各縣市政府市政府要成立平等委員會那監察機關呢監督機關是國家人權委員會禁止制度包括救濟的途徑罰則機制標準如何訂你們都細緻的做到包括需要保護的歧視面向你們都列了\n\n11:04.691 --> 11:20.166\n除了法務部在做我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展開了好幾場公聽會我都有收集這些資料所以臺灣的政府不是沒有準備在下一頁\n\n11:21.813 --> 11:46.636\n陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢的時候他也承諾這個是去年接受質詢上個會期他承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視然後他責成內政部去談現在就是個問題了我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視的法律\n\n11:47.771 --> 12:12.883\n反歧視的法律還有法務部你們自己做好調研我如果沒有給你們壓力沒有提出這個提醒很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條可是這是一個機會我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視allinone一部專法來處理它否則內政部去處理種族歧視的然後性別的放在性別平等三法裡頭我們又回到一個散裂\n\n12:17.383 --> 12:40.329\n的困境主管機關沒有辦法整合然後社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性所以這是一個機會最後也部長您覺得我今天提出來的倡議您認為法務部要不要更積極的去研議你們有的委外研究跟你們已經有的具體版本\n\n12:41.409 --> 13:03.751\n要不要跟內政部談談?要不要跟人權這個平等處談談?您的看法呢?是真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究那剛剛委員所提示的這些重點希望能夠法務部能夠盡力我們會在行政院的人權處開會的時候來做充分的表達\n\n13:04.454 --> 13:32.174\n那您的專業意見您同意我的說法是allinone由法務部來做一個平等法或是反歧視法或者是好內政部去走你的種族歧視法我們做做研究當然我們會提供這個研究的結論講給行政院人權處你知不知道我知不知道我有沒有做研究但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容但是我們會以這個研究的報告提供給現在在主責的行政院人權處做參考\n\n13:33.635 --> 13:51.913\n我跟您兩個月去對話跟研議好嗎兩個月來跟我講我不是說兩個月要端出法案而是說你們研議cooking跨部會怎麼來分工我們是allinone的方式還是先走種族的反歧視的法我跟你們兩個月時間您好好再跟大家跨部會去談一談好嗎\n\n13:53.161 --> 14:02.672\n我會轉達給行政院人權署因為他現在在整合他在主責不要只是轉達我看這本很完整的很好你們能夠Domoreanddobetter\n\n14:08.500 --> 14:22.710\n法律面維持法制序的一致性組織面整合所有的政策工具單一組織來推展制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視跟平等的價值跟觀念在台灣可以\n\n14:23.470 --> 14:23.490\n．吳思瑤\n\n14:39.918 --> 14:56.081\n立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別的歧視的事件我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師\n\n14:57.338 --> 15:10.251\n我們要為這樣一個可貴的台灣的人格者持續不斷的奮鬥下去台灣不能再有任何人輕易的對於另外的人\n\n15:11.914 --> 15:24.560\n親自發表歧視性的言論我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任跟使命奮鬥下去部長積極一點您能做的不是只有轉達這一本寫得很好\n\n15:27.705 --> 15:27.785\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.19,"end":4.522,"text":"發言好謝謝主席"},{"start":8.047,"end":33.768,"text":"法務部同仁大家好我是思瑤我是法制委員會來這裡學習的那如果有任何發言有不夠精確大家隨時指正我們理性對話我跟每一個部會都會用這個當開場牌我不會說你們藐視國會大家放心言所當言為所當為這是我每個人的職責包括我現在拋出來的議題我也是言所當言為所當為"},{"start":35.189,"end":57.045,"text":"推動反歧視法或平等法yes or no這是我今天就教於大家的好下一頁我想先問一下部長這是發生在我自己選前的一個傷害事件就是有這個楊志良前署長去站台的時候就說了吳思瑤賣狗雜貝啊沒可能生啊啦啊 絕子絕孫了"},{"start":62.473,"end":91.058,"text":"請問這樣的言論是不是涉及了歧視這是非常不恰當這是對於性別對於婚育的歧視那其實對我自己的個人的傷害是小我也很勇敢的告訴所有的女性同胞跟社會訴求我要告訴全天下的楊志良們管好自己的嘴女人的子宮輪不到你來管"},{"start":92.369,"end":93.31,"text":"下一頁我也再一步請問這就發生在剛開議的國會現場"},{"start":119.301,"end":145.275,"text":"有國民黨的黨編說不再讓民進黨圈養的家禽家畜來當部會首長部長啊你是家禽家畜嗎這樣的言論是不是也是歧視呢這樣非常的不尊重非常的不尊重就對於職業的不尊重而且貓狗好可愛喔不要歧視貓狗"},{"start":147.731,"end":147.851,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":173.052,"end":199.349,"text":"又是一個最近的事件很不幸的離開了我們的陳俊翰律師人權律師他一生為了台灣的人權自由在奮鬥他一生為了弱勢者身心障礙者在奔走發聲但是也曾經有中國的媒體人在節目上說台灣的造勢場合就是一場秀把殘疾人士推上去煽情"},{"start":201.075,"end":201.435,"text":"再回到社會"},{"start":228.346,"end":247.621,"text":"校園一再的出現歧視性的污名化的言論我們的教育現場失靈了嗎就以這兩年來臺中一中園遊會的海報歧視原住民族再到臺大言論自由月也再一次發生歧視原住民族"},{"start":248.482,"end":266.288,"text":"的言論．還有臺大學生在競選他們的學生會正副院．正副會長也發生歧視性別．歧視原住民族的言論．校園都發生這樣的歧視言行．"},{"start":267.421,"end":268.482,"text":"網路言論上的一些霸凌"},{"start":297.697,"end":299.339,"text":"事實上歧視的樣態無所不在"},{"start":313.697,"end":315.038,"text":"臺灣過去對於歧視的法規是散裂在各法"},{"start":343.444,"end":343.464,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":359.943,"end":385.1,"text":"來簽訂了消除一切形式的種族歧視國際公約開始我們陸陸續續的簽訂了公民與政治權利國際公約經濟社會文化權利國際公約消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約兒童權利公約身心障礙者權利公約再再的告訴我們臺灣要跟上世界聯合國的人權倡議包括3月21號快到了是聯合國訂定的世界反歧視日"},{"start":386.587,"end":412.953,"text":"那在3月我很把握3月可以在這裡跟大家討論如果讓我們的反歧視法或平等法的訂定能夠往前推一步我認為非常有意義第二個理由下一頁臺灣為什麼需要一部反歧視法也正是我們要推動SDGS18項聯合國國際大家都在遵循的當中的第10點就是減少不平等"},{"start":413.573,"end":427.119,"text":"而這個減少不平等就來自於人跟人之間的不平等要消滅乃至於國跟國之間的不平等要被消滅所以回應國際也回應台灣社會的現況"},{"start":429.729,"end":449.828,"text":"討論反歧視法或者是平等法：我認為此期時也。下一頁也跟部長報告我整理出來臺灣的反歧視條款是散列各法的現行的法律是欠缺一致性的當然我們性別平等教育法性別工作平等法都是思瑤過去很努力的我們也修訂完成了就業服務法規範的是18個項目的歧視"},{"start":453.311,"end":467.584,"text":"他禁止入出國籍移民法、原住民族工作權益保障法、監獄刑刑法、羈押法都有清楚的對於反歧視條款但是他散列於各法下一頁"},{"start":469.042,"end":498.166,"text":"那我跟您分享一下國際的經驗加拿大人權法1977年就定了他的定定是源自於世界人權宣言他的歧視項目歧視的方法透過騷擾或傷害對於哪些生活領域可能在職場在僱傭關係在各種服務的提供上都可能面對了被歧視的可能所以他在組織上透過一個立法去反映在他們組成的加拿大的人權委員會好下一頁"},{"start":499.42,"end":509.385,"text":"看看德國德國2006年整合了很多的法規訂定了平等法他的歧視的樣態歧視的方法歧視會發生的生活領域"},{"start":510.495,"end":536.997,"text":"他都非常清楚的兼顧而且他們組成了聯邦反歧視局在下一頁英國2010年的平等法他更進步他甚至納入了性別重制也就是變性人也不能被歧視那英國回應在組織面向他成立了英國平等及人權委員會他從2006年先訂定平等法到2010年進一步有一個"},{"start":537.978,"end":554.608,"text":"第二版2.0的平等法下一頁再看看瑞典他把九部反歧視法向臺灣散列各法把它融合成一法在2008年瑞典的反歧視法上路了他們定定的設立的組織是平等監察室"},{"start":555.589,"end":575.598,"text":"在下一頁我們鄰近的好朋友日本2016年全國性的有一個消除仇恨言論法這是中央法規進一步的地方政府我也看到國際的期刊2020年川崎市這個地方市議會進一步的透過地方市議會的立法來訂定川崎市的反歧視條例"},{"start":577.159,"end":602.121,"text":"而他進一步的勸告命令如果說不聽勸告無效6個月內三度違規我可以公開你這個歧視者的姓名資訊然後進一步刑事告發最高可處50萬日元因為日本跟我們比較近他也比較接近2020年的新法文花一點時間來論述所以我講了這麼多都來自於哪裡下一頁部長"},{"start":603.766,"end":621.364,"text":"第一 臺灣已經有立委提了不分黨派國民黨也有反族群歧視法民進黨也有族群平等及反歧視法已經有4個委員的提案待審中但是他們是focus在種族的歧視面向那很多都是原住民族的委員提出的下一頁"},{"start":622.682,"end":636.411,"text":"反歧視法在臺灣我剛整理的東西就是你們這一本部長法務部2019年做的跟中研院合作的我裡面密密麻麻的筆記我所有的PPT都來自於我想讀你們的資料"},{"start":637.628,"end":663.77,"text":"你們甚至訂出了67條的具體條文你們在組織面還主張說中央主管機關行政院平等處要成立地方主管機關是各縣市政府市政府要成立平等委員會那監察機關呢監督機關是國家人權委員會禁止制度包括救濟的途徑罰則機制標準如何訂你們都細緻的做到包括需要保護的歧視面向你們都列了"},{"start":664.691,"end":680.166,"text":"除了法務部在做我們的人權及轉型正義處也有反歧視法的進展開了好幾場公聽會我都有收集這些資料所以臺灣的政府不是沒有準備在下一頁"},{"start":681.813,"end":706.636,"text":"陳建仁院長在回答委員的質詢的時候他也承諾這個是去年接受質詢上個會期他承諾這個會期要送出行政院版本的反歧視法但是他是聚焦於原住民族的種族反歧視然後他責成內政部去談現在就是個問題了我們有內政部從種族歧視下手的種族歧視的法律"},{"start":707.771,"end":732.883,"text":"反歧視的法律還有法務部你們自己做好調研我如果沒有給你們壓力沒有提出這個提醒很可能我們就優先去走內政部那一條可是這是一個機會我們可以擴大對於各種形式的歧視all in one一部專法來處理它否則內政部去處理種族歧視的然後性別的放在性別平等三法裡頭我們又回到一個散裂"},{"start":737.383,"end":760.329,"text":"的困境主管機關沒有辦法整合然後社會的共識也沒有辦法趨於更強大的一致性所以這是一個機會最後也部長您覺得我今天提出來的倡議您認為法務部要不要更積極的去研議你們有的委外研究跟你們已經有的具體版本"},{"start":761.409,"end":783.751,"text":"要不要跟內政部談談?要不要跟人權這個平等處談談?您的看法呢?是真的佩服委員對於這一部分深入的研究那剛剛委員所提示的這些重點希望能夠法務部能夠盡力我們會在行政院的人權處開會的時候來做充分的表達"},{"start":784.454,"end":812.174,"text":"那您的專業意見您同意我的說法是all in one由法務部來做一個平等法或是反歧視法或者是好內政部去走你的種族歧視法我們做做研究當然我們會提供這個研究的結論講給行政院人權處你知不知道我知不知道我有沒有做研究但是我不知道裡面很詳細的內容但是我們會以這個研究的報告提供給現在在主責的行政院人權處做參考"},{"start":813.635,"end":831.913,"text":"我跟您兩個月去對話跟研議好嗎兩個月來跟我講我不是說兩個月要端出法案而是說你們研議cooking跨部會怎麼來分工我們是all in one的方式還是先走種族的反歧視的法我跟你們兩個月時間您好好再跟大家跨部會去談一談好嗎"},{"start":833.161,"end":842.672,"text":"我會轉達給行政院人權署因為他現在在整合他在主責不要只是轉達我看這本很完整的很好你們能夠Do more and do better"},{"start":848.5,"end":862.71,"text":"法律面維持法制序的一致性組織面整合所有的政策工具單一組織來推展制度面我們要創建一個不論誰執政都可以讓反歧視跟平等的價值跟觀念在台灣可以"},{"start":863.47,"end":863.49,"text":"．吳思瑤"},{"start":879.918,"end":896.081,"text":"立法或修法是我們可以用的政策工具我今天坐在這裡除了發生在我吳思瑤自己身上的性別的歧視的事件我要把它正向轉為我的政策能量之外我也要為在天上的陳俊翰律師"},{"start":897.338,"end":910.251,"text":"我們要為這樣一個可貴的台灣的人格者持續不斷的奮鬥下去台灣不能再有任何人輕易的對於另外的人"},{"start":911.914,"end":924.56,"text":"親自發表歧視性的言論我們要帶著陳俊翰律師的責任跟使命奮鬥下去部長 積極一點您能做的不是只有轉達這一本 寫得很好"},{"start":927.705,"end":927.785,"text":"主席"}]}}}}