{"id":149500,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149500","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe96dfbd202e9a572b52afbb2d65d0dae1f8ba9b0039caa7a6083d1f73e27fc1505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"10:37:50 - 10:47:34","影片長度":"00:09:44","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-3"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":584,"end_time":"2024-03-07T10:47:34+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T10:37:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":428,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（10時37分）請邱部長。"],["主席：來，部長請。"],["邱部長國正：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，今天想要跟你請教一下關於我們在全社會動員上面的事情。部長，全社會動員就國防部的角度來說，這是軍的事還是民的事？"],["邱部長國正：這是全面的，軍民都有的事。"],["洪委員申翰：軍民都有嘛？"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我想請問我們的這些動員計畫目前準備到什麼程度？"],["邱部長國正：委員說的程度是怎麼樣？是到某個層級還是到？"],["洪委員申翰：就是目前我們動員的計畫準備到哪裡了？目前準備的內容狀況，進度大概到什麼地方？"],["邱部長國正：剛剛我們的報告有一點有講到，不管是從經濟、能源、油料、糧秣，都在準備當中，人員的醫療、安全，這都在準備的範疇。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，對於現在的準備狀況，你覺得滿意嗎？"],["邱部長國正：沒有什麼滿意不滿意，因為畢竟我們起步比較晚，以前有全民動員法，但是也就是僅限於每一年可能作為教召或做一些民安、萬安演習的配合，但現在我們要很具體地把它做好，平常就落實，在地方上面也可以用得到，這個要有點時間啦。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你講到一個關鍵字是「落實」。"],["邱部長國正：對，要落實。"],["洪委員申翰：那部長覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證？"],["邱部長國正：這必然的。"],["洪委員申翰：必然嘛！"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我自己觀察到一件事情，這是讓我比較擔憂的一件事情，就是當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大的演練或驗證的時候，有時候在社會上容易會開始遇到一些質疑說：你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了？是不是現在兵凶戰危之類的疑問。當我們在擴大演練的時候遇到社會上有部分的政治人物、部分的媒體用這種方式來質疑的時候，我們自己心裡就會有一點遲疑，不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了，所以要去擴大演練就會有所遲疑。坦白說，這是我滿擔心的一點。這個滿擔心的點當然是說，如果我們沒有辦法做好演練或驗證，其實很難知道我們原本規劃的計畫是不是真的能夠如常或如實地進行，這其實就會影響到也許大家對於我們相關準備的信心，甚至是防衛的信心。所以這個循環下來就會有媒體、就會有某些人開始說：唉呀，你們現在講準備好都是愚勇啦！就開始扣這個帽子，說是愚勇。我自己有點擔心這件事情。所以部長，我這邊想要請問的事情是說，就你或者是包括白署長，為了全社會動員，我們甚至成立了一個全動署，我們的目的是什麼？"],["邱部長國正：這個我先跟委員報告，成立全民防衛動員署的用意就是讓我們軍民有這個概念：動員工作不光是完全軍事動員，包含民力的、物力的，而這民力、物力的管理部會不完全是軍方，包括經濟部、內政部、交通部、農委會等等，統統都會納入，什麼原因？就是因為這是全民的！當初成立的用意在這邊。","我再講一點，就是剛剛委員講到的，一有什麼動作，外界就紛紛擾擾，出現不同的聲音……"],["洪委員申翰：對，就是說：要打仗了是不是？然後我們自己就會有一點遲疑。我對這方面有所觀察，尤其是社會領域的動員。"],["邱部長國正：對，社會方面紛紛擾擾的這種聲音沒辦法避免，因為我們是多元的社會、民主的社會，不管他講什麼，我都想他講的一定有所依據，但是這個依據不見得是正確的，但是不要緊，因為這對我們來講也是一個訓練，也就是說，推動任何工作要更加注意到協調、溝通，協調、溝通要靠編組，不是我們軍方去協調，所以這也是我們全民防衛動員署平常工作的範疇之一，要做任何工作之前一定要協調、溝通。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我同意這裡面會有很多協調、整合的工作，但我覺得有一個關鍵環節是要讓社會很清楚知道：我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員？它的意義在什麼地方？我們要讓大家知道就像部長剛剛講到的，我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備，我們要把國人的防衛信心給建立起來，甚至防衛信心跟意志建立起來以後，能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道：也許你可以傷害我們，但你很難拿下我們，你很難真的控制整個臺灣、這個政府、這個社會，你很難！所以它開始會回過頭去想：那樣成本很高喔，我是不是要來做這件事情？我覺得我們要讓社會知道，我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方，這是一套論述，不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始質疑：欸？是不是打仗了？是不是兵凶戰危？然後我們自己就有一點心虛。尤其是我剛剛說的，在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣。因為也許你們漢光演習、軍方的演習還好，因為你們覺得是在軍方內部做，可是社會動員會動員到很多社會的環節，絕對會影響民心，會有諸如此類的事情。","我自己覺得，現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰，所以很容易一受到大眾或媒體的質疑就會怕怕的、就不敢做，或者在思考是不是減少規模。可是這樣循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環，因為不做紮實的演習，我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好，沒有辦法準備好的話，就影響我們實質準備的能力到底如何。所以部長，這是我現在擔心的事情，我自己是希望說，接下來尤其是全社會動員可能會越做越深、越做越廣，這是必然的，所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現，甚至我都說，其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來對這件事情提出質疑或者是削弱，我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯懦，我們不能在這個環節遲疑，但是不遲疑所要做的準備是，我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西。部長，你覺得呢？"],["邱部長國正：我覺得委員講得很有道理，但是我要跟委員做個說明，我個人是沒有這個清晰的問題，但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免紛紛擾擾而把標準降低、規模變小……"],["洪委員申翰：我們已經有看到這種狀況了。"],["邱部長國正：對，的確會有，但委員知道我跟我們同仁怎麼講嗎？這也就是訓練啊！我們訓練把任何人找來以後，要在很短的時間讓他進入狀況，最好的方法是什麼？就是做個樣本給他看，而這個樣本是我們在做，我們做好了以後，對我們幹部來講，你要如何讓樣本推動，那就多溝通，這也是訓練的課題之一啦！"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我同意，但我要提醒一個事情，因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面，政府喊出了一句我覺得很重要的口號：備戰才能止戰。部長也同意，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：我同意，對！"],["洪委員申翰：甚至很多在野黨的領袖也說「備戰不求戰」，我覺得概念是差不多的，包括柯文哲主席也講「備戰不求戰」，我覺得概念是差不多的，我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員，它的目的是什麼，讓大家清楚，所以當大家有疑問的時候、信心受動搖的時候，或是受各種訊息影響的時候，至少大家心裡知道不應該是這樣想的，我們反而應該是做好準備，知道這是為了什麼目的。","說實話，我覺得這一整套說法在目前全社會動員的計畫裡面比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通，包括我們的論述，而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分喔！所以部長，我自己有幾個提醒，我覺得這方面強化論述的討論比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心，我自己是建議我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心臺灣防衛安全的朋友，也許是學者專家，也許是民間團體，甚至一些政治部門一起來討論：我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員、要給社會什麼樣的訊息、目的是什麼東西？我覺得這一環做到好，我們心裡才不會怕怕的，我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好，才會有真正的防衛信心。部長，你同意嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我很同意，也很感激委員給我們一些啟示，我原本認為再邀請專家學者來做課題研討很浪費時間，但是委員提的這個很好，多方面聽……"],["洪委員申翰：這不是只是軍方自己想，我覺得不是軍方，尤其是跟社會動員有關的事情。"],["邱部長國正：我瞭解，的確，我們會把這個當成重要的課題，請全民防衛動員署把它納進去，以後要做工作推動前，一定要經過大家研討，充分溝通，對我們來講也是一個訓練，對整體來講也……"],["洪委員申翰：部長，這部分要麻煩你們，因為我覺得這個部分很關鍵，不然怕我們全社會動員反而造成剛剛說的狀況，我們自己做得很畏縮，那樣完全達不到目的，這是大家不樂見的事情。謝謝。"],["邱部長國正：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員的詢答，部長請回。","因為演訓，國軍強大，因為國軍強大，才不會兵凶戰危。邏輯如果反過來講，因為你們在演習、因為你們在全民動員，所以好像很緊張、大家好害怕，所以都不要動。所以謝謝洪委員提出的概念，有時候逆過來，國軍在，才會有國家安全，我們支持這樣的想法啦！好，我們謝謝。","接下來詢答的委員是林楚茵委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-3","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","馬文君","陳永康","洪申翰","林楚茵","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:03,621\n部長你講到一個關鍵字是落實嗎?那部長你覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證?\n\n5\n00:01:32,827 --> 00:01:46,055\n我自己觀察到一個事情我比較擔憂的一個事情當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大演練或驗證的時候有時候容易在社會上面會開始遇到一些質疑\n\n6\n00:01:47,369 --> 00:02:16,260\n那你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了是不是現在這個兵兇戰危之類的這樣的疑問的時候我們在擴大演練的時候當遇到社會可能有部分的政治人物部分的媒體就用這種方式來質疑的時候我們自己心裡就會有一點質疑就是說不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了所以在要去擴大演練就會有所質疑坦白說這是我\n\n7\n00:02:17,281 --> 00:02:17,301\n韓國瑜\n\n8\n00:02:41,629 --> 00:03:06,389\n這個循環下來就會有媒體就會有某些人就會開始說哎呀你們現在講準備好這都是漁勇就開始扣這個帽子是漁勇我自己有點擔心這件事情所以部長我這邊想要請問的事情是說就你或者是包括白署長我們全社會動員這一個我們設成立一個權動署我們的目的是什麼\n\n9\n00:03:08,158 --> 00:03:35,387\n我先跟委員報告全民防守動員所用意就讓我們軍民有這個概念動員工作不光是完全軍事動員包含民力的、物力的而這民力物力的所管理的部會不完全是軍方所以你看經濟部、內政部、交通部通通會納入農委會等等什麼原因就是因為這是一個全民的當成立的用語價值委員\n\n10\n00:03:36,852 --> 00:03:37,252\n邱國正報告\n\n11\n00:04:07,112 --> 00:04:21,597\n所以這也是對我來講也是個訓練,要推動人員工作,更加要注意到協調溝通,而且要溝通要靠邊組的,不是我軍方去協調,這我們就叫全民防衛動員署成立的,這也是平常要工作的範疇之一。\n\n12\n00:04:23,058 --> 00:04:43,332\n要做這種工作之前一定要協調溝通部長我同意這裡面會有很多協調整合的工作但我覺得有一個環節是在剛剛講的關鍵環節是說我覺得我們要讓社會很清楚知道我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員的意義在什麼地方我們要讓大家知道其實就像部長之前剛剛有講到\n\n13\n00:04:44,113 --> 00:05:12,489\n我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備我們要把大家國人的防衛信心給建立起來甚至防衛信心意志建立起來以後能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道就算也許你可以傷害我們但你很難拿下我們你很難真的控制整個台灣這個政府這個社會你很難所以他開始會回過頭想那成本很高我是不是要來做這件事情我覺得我們要讓社會知道\n\n14\n00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:33,547\n這一個我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方這是依靠論述不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始一直疑說是不是打仗了是不是兵兇戰為然後我們自己就我覺得就有一點心虛尤其是我剛才說的在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣因為也許你們漢光練習也許你們在\n\n15\n00:05:34,407 --> 00:05:54,726\n軍方的演習還好你們覺得在軍方內部做可是社會動員你們會去動員到很多社會的環節覺得會影響明星或等等等的這些事情我自己覺得現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰所以很容易受到現在大眾或媒體一有之一我們就會怕怕的\n\n16\n00:05:55,933 --> 00:06:22,511\n我們就不敢做或者在思考是不是減少規模可是這循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環因為不做紮實的演習我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好沒有辦法準備好的話我們就影響到底我們實質的準備的能力如何所以部長這是我現在擔心的事情所以部長我自己是希望說我們接下來尤其是我們全社會動員我們可能會越做越深\n\n17\n00:06:23,191 --> 00:06:48,615\n我們會越做越廣這是必然的所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現甚至我都說我們其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來去對這個事情提出質疑或者是削弱我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯弱我們不能在這個環節質疑但不質疑的要做的準備是我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西\n\n18\n00:06:49,275 --> 00:07:10,442\n部長你覺得我覺得委員講的很有道理但我要跟委員做個說明信息是我個人是沒有信息的問題但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免把標準降低我們已經有看到這種狀況是的確這會有但我現在跟同仁怎麼講話\n\n19\n00:07:11,682 --> 00:07:37,583\n這也就是訓練啊我們現在把這種人找來以後要很短時間讓他進入狀況最好的方法是什麼做個樣本給他看而這個樣本是我們在做我們做好了以後對我們幹部來講你要如何讓樣本推動那就多溝通這也是訓練的課題之一啦部長我同意但我提醒一個事情是我因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面其實我們政府喊出一句我覺得很重要的口號\n\n20\n00:07:39,280 --> 00:08:03,338\n備戰才能止戰部長你也同意嗎甚至我們很多在野黨的領袖他也講了說備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的包括柯文哲主席他也講備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員的目的是什麼讓大家清楚所以當大家有疑問的時候信心受動搖的時候或受到各種訊息去影響的時候至少大家心裡知道\n\n21\n00:08:05,731 --> 00:08:30,650\n不應該是這樣想的我們應該反而是做好準備這是為了什麼目的我覺得這一整套的說法目前我說實話我覺得在現在全社會動員的計畫裡面我比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通包括我們的論述而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分所以部長我自己有幾個提醒我覺得這方面強化\n\n22\n00:08:32,152 --> 00:08:55,948\n這個論述的討論我比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心我自己是建議說我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心台灣防衛安全的朋友也許學者專家也許民間團體甚至一些政治部門一起來討論我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員要給社會什麼樣的訊息目的是什麼東西我覺得這一環做到好我們心裡才不會怕怕的我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好\n\n23\n00:08:57,549 --> 00:08:57,890\n委員會主席\n\n24\n00:09:13,292 --> 00:09:30,410\n這不是只是局長自己想的,我覺得不是局長,尤其跟社會動員有關的事情我了解,是,的確我們把這當一個重要課題,我請到全方位動員署把他納進去以後要做一個工作推動前,一定要經過大家研討,充分溝通對我們來講也是一個訓練,對整體來講也是部長這部分要麻煩你們齁,因為我覺得這部分很關鍵,不然我們全社動員怕\n\n25\n00:09:34,975 --> 00:09:34,995\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t969\t邱國正報告業務概況．\n12096\t35263\t部長今天想要跟你請教一下關於這個我們在全社會動員上面的事情喔那部長這個全社會動員就廣播角度來說這是軍的事還是民的事?這個全面的軍民都有的軍民都有嗎?那部長我想請問目前我們的這些動員計畫目前準備的到什麼程度?\n36067\t37688\t那部長你覺得對於現在的準備的狀況你滿意嗎\n60980\t63621\t部長你講到一個關鍵字是落實嗎?那部長你覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證?\n92827\t106055\t我自己觀察到一個事情我比較擔憂的一個事情當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大演練或驗證的時候有時候容易在社會上面會開始遇到一些質疑\n107369\t136260\t那你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了是不是現在這個兵兇戰危之類的這樣的疑問的時候我們在擴大演練的時候當遇到社會可能有部分的政治人物部分的媒體就用這種方式來質疑的時候我們自己心裡就會有一點質疑就是說不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了所以在要去擴大演練就會有所質疑坦白說這是我\n137281\t137301\t韓國瑜\n161629\t186389\t這個循環下來就會有媒體就會有某些人就會開始說哎呀你們現在講準備好這都是漁勇就開始扣這個帽子是漁勇我自己有點擔心這件事情所以部長我這邊想要請問的事情是說就你或者是包括白署長我們全社會動員這一個我們設成立一個權動署我們的目的是什麼\n188158\t215387\t我先跟委員報告全民防守動員所用意就讓我們軍民有這個概念動員工作不光是完全軍事動員包含民力的、物力的而這民力物力的所管理的部會不完全是軍方所以你看經濟部、內政部、交通部通通會納入農委會等等什麼原因就是因為這是一個全民的當成立的用語價值委員\n216852\t217252\t邱國正報告\n247112\t261597\t所以這也是對我來講也是個訓練,要推動人員工作,更加要注意到協調溝通,而且要溝通要靠邊組的,不是我軍方去協調,這我們就叫全民防衛動員署成立的,這也是平常要工作的範疇之一。\n263058\t283332\t要做這種工作之前一定要協調溝通部長我同意這裡面會有很多協調整合的工作但我覺得有一個環節是在剛剛講的關鍵環節是說我覺得我們要讓社會很清楚知道我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員的意義在什麼地方我們要讓大家知道其實就像部長之前剛剛有講到\n284113\t312489\t我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備我們要把大家國人的防衛信心給建立起來甚至防衛信心意志建立起來以後能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道就算也許你可以傷害我們但你很難拿下我們你很難真的控制整個台灣這個政府這個社會你很難所以他開始會回過頭想那成本很高我是不是要來做這件事情我覺得我們要讓社會知道\n313589\t333547\t這一個我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方這是依靠論述不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始一直疑說是不是打仗了是不是兵兇戰為然後我們自己就我覺得就有一點心虛尤其是我剛才說的在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣因為也許你們漢光練習也許你們在\n334407\t354726\t軍方的演習還好你們覺得在軍方內部做可是社會動員你們會去動員到很多社會的環節覺得會影響明星或等等等的這些事情我自己覺得現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰所以很容易受到現在大眾或媒體一有之一我們就會怕怕的\n355933\t382511\t我們就不敢做或者在思考是不是減少規模可是這循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環因為不做紮實的演習我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好沒有辦法準備好的話我們就影響到底我們實質的準備的能力如何所以部長這是我現在擔心的事情所以部長我自己是希望說我們接下來尤其是我們全社會動員我們可能會越做越深\n383191\t408615\t我們會越做越廣這是必然的所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現甚至我都說我們其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來去對這個事情提出質疑或者是削弱我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯弱我們不能在這個環節質疑但不質疑的要做的準備是我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西\n409275\t430442\t部長你覺得我覺得委員講的很有道理但我要跟委員做個說明信息是我個人是沒有信息的問題但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免把標準降低我們已經有看到這種狀況是的確這會有但我現在跟同仁怎麼講話\n431682\t457583\t這也就是訓練啊我們現在把這種人找來以後要很短時間讓他進入狀況最好的方法是什麼做個樣本給他看而這個樣本是我們在做我們做好了以後對我們幹部來講你要如何讓樣本推動那就多溝通這也是訓練的課題之一啦部長我同意但我提醒一個事情是我因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面其實我們政府喊出一句我覺得很重要的口號\n459280\t483338\t備戰才能止戰部長你也同意嗎甚至我們很多在野黨的領袖他也講了說備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的包括柯文哲主席他也講備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員的目的是什麼讓大家清楚所以當大家有疑問的時候信心受動搖的時候或受到各種訊息去影響的時候至少大家心裡知道\n485731\t510650\t不應該是這樣想的我們應該反而是做好準備這是為了什麼目的我覺得這一整套的說法目前我說實話我覺得在現在全社會動員的計畫裡面我比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通包括我們的論述而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分所以部長我自己有幾個提醒我覺得這方面強化\n512152\t535948\t這個論述的討論我比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心我自己是建議說我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心台灣防衛安全的朋友也許學者專家也許民間團體甚至一些政治部門一起來討論我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員要給社會什麼樣的訊息目的是什麼東西我覺得這一環做到好我們心裡才不會怕怕的我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好\n537549\t537890\t委員會主席\n553292\t570410\t這不是只是局長自己想的,我覺得不是局長,尤其跟社會動員有關的事情我了解,是,的確我們把這當一個重要課題,我請到全方位動員署把他納進去以後要做一個工作推動前,一定要經過大家研討,充分溝通對我們來講也是一個訓練,對整體來講也是部長這部分要麻煩你們齁,因為我覺得這部分很關鍵,不然我們全社動員怕\n574975\t574995\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"邱國正報告業務概況．\n部長今天想要跟你請教一下關於這個我們在全社會動員上面的事情喔那部長這個全社會動員就廣播角度來說這是軍的事還是民的事?這個全面的軍民都有的軍民都有嗎?那部長我想請問目前我們的這些動員計畫目前準備的到什麼程度?\n那部長你覺得對於現在的準備的狀況你滿意嗎\n部長你講到一個關鍵字是落實嗎?那部長你覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證?\n我自己觀察到一個事情我比較擔憂的一個事情當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大演練或驗證的時候有時候容易在社會上面會開始遇到一些質疑\n那你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了是不是現在這個兵兇戰危之類的這樣的疑問的時候我們在擴大演練的時候當遇到社會可能有部分的政治人物部分的媒體就用這種方式來質疑的時候我們自己心裡就會有一點質疑就是說不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了所以在要去擴大演練就會有所質疑坦白說這是我\n韓國瑜\n這個循環下來就會有媒體就會有某些人就會開始說哎呀你們現在講準備好這都是漁勇就開始扣這個帽子是漁勇我自己有點擔心這件事情所以部長我這邊想要請問的事情是說就你或者是包括白署長我們全社會動員這一個我們設成立一個權動署我們的目的是什麼\n我先跟委員報告全民防守動員所用意就讓我們軍民有這個概念動員工作不光是完全軍事動員包含民力的、物力的而這民力物力的所管理的部會不完全是軍方所以你看經濟部、內政部、交通部通通會納入農委會等等什麼原因就是因為這是一個全民的當成立的用語價值委員\n邱國正報告\n所以這也是對我來講也是個訓練,要推動人員工作,更加要注意到協調溝通,而且要溝通要靠邊組的,不是我軍方去協調,這我們就叫全民防衛動員署成立的,這也是平常要工作的範疇之一。\n要做這種工作之前一定要協調溝通部長我同意這裡面會有很多協調整合的工作但我覺得有一個環節是在剛剛講的關鍵環節是說我覺得我們要讓社會很清楚知道我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員的意義在什麼地方我們要讓大家知道其實就像部長之前剛剛有講到\n我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備我們要把大家國人的防衛信心給建立起來甚至防衛信心意志建立起來以後能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道就算也許你可以傷害我們但你很難拿下我們你很難真的控制整個台灣這個政府這個社會你很難所以他開始會回過頭想那成本很高我是不是要來做這件事情我覺得我們要讓社會知道\n這一個我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方這是依靠論述不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始一直疑說是不是打仗了是不是兵兇戰為然後我們自己就我覺得就有一點心虛尤其是我剛才說的在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣因為也許你們漢光練習也許你們在\n軍方的演習還好你們覺得在軍方內部做可是社會動員你們會去動員到很多社會的環節覺得會影響明星或等等等的這些事情我自己覺得現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰所以很容易受到現在大眾或媒體一有之一我們就會怕怕的\n我們就不敢做或者在思考是不是減少規模可是這循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環因為不做紮實的演習我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好沒有辦法準備好的話我們就影響到底我們實質的準備的能力如何所以部長這是我現在擔心的事情所以部長我自己是希望說我們接下來尤其是我們全社會動員我們可能會越做越深\n我們會越做越廣這是必然的所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現甚至我都說我們其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來去對這個事情提出質疑或者是削弱我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯弱我們不能在這個環節質疑但不質疑的要做的準備是我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西\n部長你覺得我覺得委員講的很有道理但我要跟委員做個說明信息是我個人是沒有信息的問題但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免把標準降低我們已經有看到這種狀況是的確這會有但我現在跟同仁怎麼講話\n這也就是訓練啊我們現在把這種人找來以後要很短時間讓他進入狀況最好的方法是什麼做個樣本給他看而這個樣本是我們在做我們做好了以後對我們幹部來講你要如何讓樣本推動那就多溝通這也是訓練的課題之一啦部長我同意但我提醒一個事情是我因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面其實我們政府喊出一句我覺得很重要的口號\n備戰才能止戰部長你也同意嗎甚至我們很多在野黨的領袖他也講了說備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的包括柯文哲主席他也講備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員的目的是什麼讓大家清楚所以當大家有疑問的時候信心受動搖的時候或受到各種訊息去影響的時候至少大家心裡知道\n不應該是這樣想的我們應該反而是做好準備這是為了什麼目的我覺得這一整套的說法目前我說實話我覺得在現在全社會動員的計畫裡面我比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通包括我們的論述而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分所以部長我自己有幾個提醒我覺得這方面強化\n這個論述的討論我比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心我自己是建議說我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心台灣防衛安全的朋友也許學者專家也許民間團體甚至一些政治部門一起來討論我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員要給社會什麼樣的訊息目的是什麼東西我覺得這一環做到好我們心裡才不會怕怕的我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好\n委員會主席\n這不是只是局長自己想的,我覺得不是局長,尤其跟社會動員有關的事情我了解,是,的確我們把這當一個重要課題,我請到全方位動員署把他納進去以後要做一個工作推動前,一定要經過大家研討,充分溝通對我們來講也是一個訓練,對整體來講也是部長這部分要麻煩你們齁,因為我覺得這部分很關鍵,不然我們全社動員怕\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:00.969\n邱國正報告業務概況．\n\n00:12.096 --> 00:35.263\n部長今天想要跟你請教一下關於這個我們在全社會動員上面的事情喔那部長這個全社會動員就廣播角度來說這是軍的事還是民的事?這個全面的軍民都有的軍民都有嗎?那部長我想請問目前我們的這些動員計畫目前準備的到什麼程度?\n\n00:36.067 --> 00:37.688\n那部長你覺得對於現在的準備的狀況你滿意嗎\n\n01:00.980 --> 01:03.621\n部長你講到一個關鍵字是落實嗎?那部長你覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證?\n\n01:32.827 --> 01:46.055\n我自己觀察到一個事情我比較擔憂的一個事情當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大演練或驗證的時候有時候容易在社會上面會開始遇到一些質疑\n\n01:47.369 --> 02:16.260\n那你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了是不是現在這個兵兇戰危之類的這樣的疑問的時候我們在擴大演練的時候當遇到社會可能有部分的政治人物部分的媒體就用這種方式來質疑的時候我們自己心裡就會有一點質疑就是說不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了所以在要去擴大演練就會有所質疑坦白說這是我\n\n02:17.281 --> 02:17.301\n韓國瑜\n\n02:41.629 --> 03:06.389\n這個循環下來就會有媒體就會有某些人就會開始說哎呀你們現在講準備好這都是漁勇就開始扣這個帽子是漁勇我自己有點擔心這件事情所以部長我這邊想要請問的事情是說就你或者是包括白署長我們全社會動員這一個我們設成立一個權動署我們的目的是什麼\n\n03:08.158 --> 03:35.387\n我先跟委員報告全民防守動員所用意就讓我們軍民有這個概念動員工作不光是完全軍事動員包含民力的、物力的而這民力物力的所管理的部會不完全是軍方所以你看經濟部、內政部、交通部通通會納入農委會等等什麼原因就是因為這是一個全民的當成立的用語價值委員\n\n03:36.852 --> 03:37.252\n邱國正報告\n\n04:07.112 --> 04:21.597\n所以這也是對我來講也是個訓練,要推動人員工作,更加要注意到協調溝通,而且要溝通要靠邊組的,不是我軍方去協調,這我們就叫全民防衛動員署成立的,這也是平常要工作的範疇之一。\n\n04:23.058 --> 04:43.332\n要做這種工作之前一定要協調溝通部長我同意這裡面會有很多協調整合的工作但我覺得有一個環節是在剛剛講的關鍵環節是說我覺得我們要讓社會很清楚知道我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員的意義在什麼地方我們要讓大家知道其實就像部長之前剛剛有講到\n\n04:44.113 --> 05:12.489\n我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備我們要把大家國人的防衛信心給建立起來甚至防衛信心意志建立起來以後能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道就算也許你可以傷害我們但你很難拿下我們你很難真的控制整個台灣這個政府這個社會你很難所以他開始會回過頭想那成本很高我是不是要來做這件事情我覺得我們要讓社會知道\n\n05:13.589 --> 05:33.547\n這一個我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方這是依靠論述不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始一直疑說是不是打仗了是不是兵兇戰為然後我們自己就我覺得就有一點心虛尤其是我剛才說的在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣因為也許你們漢光練習也許你們在\n\n05:34.407 --> 05:54.726\n軍方的演習還好你們覺得在軍方內部做可是社會動員你們會去動員到很多社會的環節覺得會影響明星或等等等的這些事情我自己覺得現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰所以很容易受到現在大眾或媒體一有之一我們就會怕怕的\n\n05:55.933 --> 06:22.511\n我們就不敢做或者在思考是不是減少規模可是這循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環因為不做紮實的演習我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好沒有辦法準備好的話我們就影響到底我們實質的準備的能力如何所以部長這是我現在擔心的事情所以部長我自己是希望說我們接下來尤其是我們全社會動員我們可能會越做越深\n\n06:23.191 --> 06:48.615\n我們會越做越廣這是必然的所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現甚至我都說我們其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來去對這個事情提出質疑或者是削弱我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯弱我們不能在這個環節質疑但不質疑的要做的準備是我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西\n\n06:49.275 --> 07:10.442\n部長你覺得我覺得委員講的很有道理但我要跟委員做個說明信息是我個人是沒有信息的問題但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免把標準降低我們已經有看到這種狀況是的確這會有但我現在跟同仁怎麼講話\n\n07:11.682 --> 07:37.583\n這也就是訓練啊我們現在把這種人找來以後要很短時間讓他進入狀況最好的方法是什麼做個樣本給他看而這個樣本是我們在做我們做好了以後對我們幹部來講你要如何讓樣本推動那就多溝通這也是訓練的課題之一啦部長我同意但我提醒一個事情是我因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面其實我們政府喊出一句我覺得很重要的口號\n\n07:39.280 --> 08:03.338\n備戰才能止戰部長你也同意嗎甚至我們很多在野黨的領袖他也講了說備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的包括柯文哲主席他也講備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員的目的是什麼讓大家清楚所以當大家有疑問的時候信心受動搖的時候或受到各種訊息去影響的時候至少大家心裡知道\n\n08:05.731 --> 08:30.650\n不應該是這樣想的我們應該反而是做好準備這是為了什麼目的我覺得這一整套的說法目前我說實話我覺得在現在全社會動員的計畫裡面我比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通包括我們的論述而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分所以部長我自己有幾個提醒我覺得這方面強化\n\n08:32.152 --> 08:55.948\n這個論述的討論我比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心我自己是建議說我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心台灣防衛安全的朋友也許學者專家也許民間團體甚至一些政治部門一起來討論我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員要給社會什麼樣的訊息目的是什麼東西我覺得這一環做到好我們心裡才不會怕怕的我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好\n\n08:57.549 --> 08:57.890\n委員會主席\n\n09:13.292 --> 09:30.410\n這不是只是局長自己想的,我覺得不是局長,尤其跟社會動員有關的事情我了解,是,的確我們把這當一個重要課題,我請到全方位動員署把他納進去以後要做一個工作推動前,一定要經過大家研討,充分溝通對我們來講也是一個訓練,對整體來講也是部長這部分要麻煩你們齁,因為我覺得這部分很關鍵,不然我們全社動員怕\n\n09:34.975 --> 09:34.995\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":0.969,"text":"邱國正報告業務概況．"},{"start":12.096,"end":35.263,"text":"部長今天想要跟你請教一下關於這個我們在全社會動員上面的事情喔那部長這個全社會動員就廣播角度來說這是軍的事還是民的事?這個全面的軍民都有的軍民都有嗎?那部長我想請問目前我們的這些動員計畫目前準備的到什麼程度?"},{"start":36.067,"end":37.688,"text":"那部長你覺得對於現在的準備的狀況你滿意嗎"},{"start":60.98,"end":63.621,"text":"部長你講到一個關鍵字是落實嗎?那部長你覺得落實是不是需要紮實的演練跟驗證?"},{"start":92.827,"end":106.055,"text":"我自己觀察到一個事情我比較擔憂的一個事情當我們要來規劃一些比較擴大演練或驗證的時候有時候容易在社會上面會開始遇到一些質疑"},{"start":107.369,"end":136.26,"text":"那你現在要來演練這個是不是要打仗了是不是現在這個兵兇戰危之類的這樣的疑問的時候我們在擴大演練的時候當遇到社會可能有部分的政治人物部分的媒體就用這種方式來質疑的時候我們自己心裡就會有一點質疑就是說不想要被認知為是不是現在就要打仗了所以在要去擴大演練就會有所質疑坦白說這是我"},{"start":137.281,"end":137.301,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":161.629,"end":186.389,"text":"這個循環下來就會有媒體就會有某些人就會開始說哎呀你們現在講準備好這都是漁勇就開始扣這個帽子是漁勇我自己有點擔心這件事情所以部長我這邊想要請問的事情是說就你或者是包括白署長我們全社會動員這一個我們設成立一個權動署我們的目的是什麼"},{"start":188.158,"end":215.387,"text":"我先跟委員報告全民防守動員所用意就讓我們軍民有這個概念動員工作不光是完全軍事動員包含民力的、物力的而這民力物力的所管理的部會不完全是軍方所以你看經濟部、內政部、交通部通通會納入農委會等等什麼原因就是因為這是一個全民的當成立的用語價值委員"},{"start":216.852,"end":217.252,"text":"邱國正報告"},{"start":247.112,"end":261.597,"text":"所以這也是對我來講也是個訓練,要推動人員工作,更加要注意到協調溝通,而且要溝通要靠邊組的,不是我軍方去協調,這我們就叫全民防衛動員署成立的,這也是平常要工作的範疇之一。"},{"start":263.058,"end":283.332,"text":"要做這種工作之前一定要協調溝通部長我同意這裡面會有很多協調整合的工作但我覺得有一個環節是在剛剛講的關鍵環節是說我覺得我們要讓社會很清楚知道我們為什麼要來做這個全社會動員的意義在什麼地方我們要讓大家知道其實就像部長之前剛剛有講到"},{"start":284.113,"end":312.489,"text":"我們要做最壞的打算跟最好的準備我們要把大家國人的防衛信心給建立起來甚至防衛信心意志建立起來以後能夠讓我們設想可能會來侵犯我們的人知道就算也許你可以傷害我們但你很難拿下我們你很難真的控制整個台灣這個政府這個社會你很難所以他開始會回過頭想那成本很高我是不是要來做這件事情我覺得我們要讓社會知道"},{"start":313.589,"end":333.547,"text":"這一個我們要做全社會動員的目的在什麼地方這是依靠論述不然我覺得我們常常會遇到社會開始一直疑說是不是打仗了是不是兵兇戰為然後我們自己就我覺得就有一點心虛尤其是我剛才說的在社會領域的動員上面更是這樣因為也許你們漢光練習也許你們在"},{"start":334.407,"end":354.726,"text":"軍方的演習還好你們覺得在軍方內部做可是社會動員你們會去動員到很多社會的環節覺得會影響明星或等等等的這些事情我自己覺得現在我們在全社會動員上面對社會的論述不夠清晰所以很容易受到現在大眾或媒體一有之一我們就會怕怕的"},{"start":355.933,"end":382.511,"text":"我們就不敢做或者在思考是不是減少規模可是這循環下來就變成是一個負面的循環因為不做紮實的演習我們就沒有辦法確認我們準備好沒有辦法準備好的話我們就影響到底我們實質的準備的能力如何所以部長這是我現在擔心的事情所以部長我自己是希望說我們接下來尤其是我們全社會動員我們可能會越做越深"},{"start":383.191,"end":408.615,"text":"我們會越做越廣這是必然的所以我剛剛說的這個質疑也一定會出現甚至我都說我們其實現在在立法院裡面就有一些委員會用這種方式來去對這個事情提出質疑或者是削弱我覺得我們不能在這個環節怯弱我們不能在這個環節質疑但不質疑的要做的準備是我覺得我們要跟社會講清楚我們做這件事情的目的是什麼東西"},{"start":409.275,"end":430.442,"text":"部長你覺得我覺得委員講的很有道理但我要跟委員做個說明信息是我個人是沒有信息的問題但我知道會造成我們執行單位為了避免把標準降低我們已經有看到這種狀況是的確這會有但我現在跟同仁怎麼講話"},{"start":431.682,"end":457.583,"text":"這也就是訓練啊我們現在把這種人找來以後要很短時間讓他進入狀況最好的方法是什麼做個樣本給他看而這個樣本是我們在做我們做好了以後對我們幹部來講你要如何讓樣本推動那就多溝通這也是訓練的課題之一啦部長我同意但我提醒一個事情是我因為去年我們在選舉過程裡面其實我們政府喊出一句我覺得很重要的口號"},{"start":459.28,"end":483.338,"text":"備戰才能止戰部長你也同意嗎甚至我們很多在野黨的領袖他也講了說備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的包括柯文哲主席他也講備戰不求戰我覺得概念是差不多的我覺得我們應該從這個概念發展出我們為什麼要做全社會動員的目的是什麼讓大家清楚所以當大家有疑問的時候信心受動搖的時候或受到各種訊息去影響的時候至少大家心裡知道"},{"start":485.731,"end":510.65,"text":"不應該是這樣想的我們應該反而是做好準備這是為了什麼目的我覺得這一整套的說法目前我說實話我覺得在現在全社會動員的計畫裡面我比較沒有看到跟大眾的溝通包括我們的論述而且這可能也是認知上面必須攻防作戰的一個部分所以部長我自己有幾個提醒我覺得這方面強化"},{"start":512.152,"end":535.948,"text":"這個論述的討論我比較能夠強化我們防衛的信心我自己是建議說我們是不是應該來邀請一些同樣關心台灣防衛安全的朋友也許學者專家也許民間團體甚至一些政治部門一起來討論我們要怎麼來討論全社會動員要給社會什麼樣的訊息目的是什麼東西我覺得這一環做到好我們心裡才不會怕怕的我們才有辦法真的能夠把演練跟驗證給做好"},{"start":537.549,"end":537.89,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":553.292,"end":570.41,"text":"這不是只是局長自己想的,我覺得不是局長,尤其跟社會動員有關的事情我了解,是,的確我們把這當一個重要課題,我請到全方位動員署把他納進去以後要做一個工作推動前,一定要經過大家研討,充分溝通對我們來講也是一個訓練,對整體來講也是部長這部分要麻煩你們齁,因為我覺得這部分很關鍵,不然我們全社動員怕"},{"start":574.975,"end":574.995,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}