{"id":149504,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149504","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe34c25f25113aff723ebf0b3ad7e91c05f8ba9b0039caa7a6cbfbb2dae5f8c4225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"10:50:59 - 10:59:50","影片長度":"00:08:51","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「電價調漲對產業、民生等衝擊研擬配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-2"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":531,"end_time":"2024-03-07T10:59:50+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T10:50:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":662,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時51分）主席好，我想請一下王美花部長。"],["主席：我們再請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好。首先，先感謝主席今天安排了有關於電價調漲的專案報告，在進行報告之前，我昨天看到了美國能源部最新的說帖，它說美國能源部建議全美現有的燃煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠，部長，你知道這個新聞嗎？"],["王部長美花：我有看到。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你有看到這個新聞。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：坦白說，我看到這個新聞也是有點意外啦！因為我在想我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的政策為主要參考的狀態，那美國能源部竟然會建議全美燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠，這是一個很重要的訊息。然後另外一個部分就是在日本它們也很清楚，它們在2030年預計要讓整個核能發電量占比提高到兩成，天然氣的使用從2014年的40%要降到2030年的27%，我想這數字部長應該都很清楚，對不對？"],["王部長美花：對，各國都有相關的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，那我想請教其實很多人也都問到這個狀態，我們黨團最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的修法案，希望能夠讓核一、核二重啟跟核三有延役的可能性，對於這樣的修法方向，你支不支持？"],["王部長美花：我們尊重委員的提案，委員會在委員的討論……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以您認為臺灣目前整個在堅持一個非核路線，你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去？"],["王部長美花：當時講的非核其實就是目前法規是運轉到40年，所以我們讓它運轉到40年，那事實上核二因為沒有乾貯，所以它事實上還不到40年。"],["鄭委員正鈐：其實你講的意思是當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠營運的時間，並不是真正的政策，不是一個能源政策的目標，是這樣子嗎？是考慮到核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態，而不是一個政策目標？"],["王部長美花：我意思是說，我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止，因為核能在臺灣跟在美國很大的不同是，確實臺灣在地震帶，臺灣很小，那核廢料到現在要朝處理……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以執政黨目前來說，對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎？還是這樣不是一個政策堅持，它只是因為針對核一、核二、核三實際運作的狀態，40年到了所以才變成非核，是這個意思嗎？"],["王部長美花：在原來的非核確實都讓它運轉到40年，沒有錯！"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，所以它不是一個政策目標，如果說這樣子核一、核二、核三的運作可以往後延伸的時候，那非核目標的能源政策就可以先把它放到一邊，是這個意思？你意思是這樣子嗎？"],["王部長美花：但是展延的部分的話，就涉及到非常多的議題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。好，我為什麼特別講這個部分？因為我們今天在講整個電價調漲，那我想如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候，臺灣的電價永遠會漲不停，這是一個很重要的關鍵，我們來看幾個數字，原本想要用綠能來補核能，其實目前已經嚴重跳票了，以天然氣來補核能的時候，會讓暖化問題更為嚴重，這是我們在看這次電費調漲的時候，我其實會有一個政策面的考量在這個地方。","就整個數字來看的時候，台電年度的年度發購電量，其實我們很清楚看到2016跟2023年的比較，燃氣的部分從36%提高到44.1%；核能的部分下降到目前的7%，核能如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的電，而且價格不會漲，我覺得那就是一個好的政策，可是當如果我們電可能不夠，價格也往上漲，我們就要來思考怎麼樣的發電結構會最適合臺灣？我在想我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候，我看你們提出來的報告當中，主要沒有提到綠能、沒有提到綠能價格的問題、沒有提到核能往下占比的問題，主要提到的都是國際價格上漲，對不對？"],["王部長美花：我有提到綠能的部分，我有說明。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高，我們看數字來說的時候，按照去年的發電成本，每一度是大概3.89元，是這個數字嘛？台電的平均發電成本。"],["王部長美花：去年的發電成本稅前是3.95，稅後是4.17。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的狀態，那我這邊特別來看一個情況，我們看整個臺灣的電價走勢，就是2008年4月每度電價是2.4071元；到2016年4月每一度電價是2.5488元，這8年來上漲5.89%；那麼從2016年到2023年，到現在每一度電價是到3.1154元，上漲22.23%，這3個時間點是在馬政府時代上漲5.89%，在蔡英文政府的時候，還沒有下臺，按照之前丟出來的風向，這次還要上漲10%，已經上漲22.23%，所以我們特別要提到一個點就是，在小英政府最後一次電價審議的時候，如果馬上提高10%，他可能就會在卸任之前為臺灣留下了一個高電價的時代，那我們一定不樂見這個狀態，因為昨天龔明鑫主委在我們委員會答復的時候，他說如果我們現在電價調漲10%，對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多，可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%，這是龔明鑫主委昨天回答我們委員的答復，所以當電價調漲……"],["王部長美花：應該是0.2%吧！他應該講的是0.2%。"],["鄭委員正鈐：他說超過2%。"],["王部長美花：就整個的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，波動效果超過2%，2%就是我們通膨的警界線……"],["王部長美花：沒有，他大概講的是會從原來主計總數預估的1.85……"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，這個部分來說，我們擔心的就是這一次的調漲電價會影響到後續很多的物價，所以我在這邊特別提到，因為這次目前經濟部提出來一個電價調整方案是全面調漲，民生用調漲、工業用電調漲，全部都調漲，特高壓用電調漲，那這個部分，選前的時候全部都凍漲；選後就一次要調齊，大家非常的惶恐，那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就儘量不調，那我同時要針對這個部分也提到，能源署之前都有節能家電補助，目前是不是會繼續、會續辦？"],["王部長美花：目前還在辦理當中。"],["鄭委員正鈐：然後會不會擴大舉辦？"],["王部長美花：未來的部分，能源署有在爭取未來的經費。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，所以針對今天的質詢本席有二個主張：第一個，希望民生用電不要調漲；第二個，希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦、能夠擴大辦理，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是，是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（10時59分）","繼續開會（11時7分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。請邱委員志偉發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":250,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra 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\"五\", \"start\": 528.79, \"end\": 528.89, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 528.89, \"end\": 528.91, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,924 --> 00:00:14,065\n主席好,我想請一下王美花部長我們再請部長\n\n2\n00:00:20,523 --> 00:00:46,263\n部長好首先感謝主席今天安排了這個有關於電價調漲的專案報告我在想說在進行這報告之前的時候我昨天看到一個美國能源部最新的一個說帖他說美國能源部建議全美現有的藍煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠部長你知道這個新聞嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:49,645 --> 00:01:14,475\n我有看到這個新聞坦白說我看到這個新聞我也是有點意外啦因為我在想說我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的一個政策為主要的參考的一個狀態那美國內運部竟然會建議全美的燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠那這是一個很重要的一個訊息然後另外一個部分就是在日本\n\n4\n00:01:15,095 --> 00:01:28,199\n他們也很清楚他們在2030年預計要讓整個核能的發電量占比提高到兩成那麼天然氣的一個使用從2014年的40%還要降到2030年的27%我想這數字部長應該都很清楚對不對?\n\n5\n00:01:34,821 --> 00:01:52,594\n對,各報告都有相關的問題我想請教,其實很多人也都問到這狀態因為我們其實黨產最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的一個修法案希望能夠讓就是合一合二重啟跟合三有延逸的可能性你對於這樣的一個修法方向你知不支持?\n\n6\n00:01:53,872 --> 00:02:07,871\n我們尊重委員的提案我們尊重委員提案那委員會在委員的討論所以您認為說台灣目前就是整個在堅持的一個非核路線的時候你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去\n\n7\n00:02:09,541 --> 00:02:35,642\n其實當時講的非核其實就是目前的法規就是運轉到40年所以我們是讓它運轉到40年那事實上核二因為沒有乾除所以它事實上還不到40年所以你意思是說當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠的一個營運的一個時間並不是真正的一個政策不是一個能源政策的一個目標是這樣子嗎?是考慮到就是核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態而不是一個政策目標\n\n8\n00:02:38,684 --> 00:03:05,630\n我意思是說我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止那因為核能在台灣跟在美國很大的不同是確實台灣在地震帶台灣很小那核廢料到現在要保住所以非核的能源目前執政黨目前來說對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎還是說他並不是這樣子不是一個政策堅持他只是因為針對核一核二核三實際運作的狀態\n\n9\n00:03:08,651 --> 00:03:31,739\n40年到了所以才變成非核是這個意思嗎?在原來的這個非核確實都讓它運轉到40年沒有錯所以它不是一個政策目標所以說如果說這樣子合一合二合三它的運作可以往後延伸的時候那非核的目標能源政策就可以先把它放在一邊是這個意思但是展演的部分就涉及到非常多的議題\n\n10\n00:03:34,921 --> 00:03:54,867\n為什麼特別講這個部分因為我們今天在講說整個電價調漲那我想說如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候台灣的電價永遠會漲不停這是一個很重要的一個關鍵我們來看幾個數字我們在看整個原本在想說要用綠能來補核能其實目前已經嚴重跳票了\n\n11\n00:03:55,427 --> 00:04:18,946\n以天然氣來補核能的時候會讓暖化問題更為嚴重我覺得這是我們在看這一次電費調漲的時候我其實會有一個政策面的一個考量在這個地方我們往下看一下整個數字來看的時候台電年度的一個發購電量其實我們很清楚看到就是2016跟2023年的一個比較\n\n12\n00:04:21,688 --> 00:04:22,489\n韓文如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的\n\n13\n00:04:35,674 --> 00:04:35,994\n我們再往下\n\n14\n00:04:53,301 --> 00:05:07,357\n我在想說我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候我看我們提出來的報告當中主要沒有提到綠能沒有提到綠能價格的問題沒有提到核能往下佔比的問題主要又提到是國際價格上漲對不對\n\n15\n00:05:09,799 --> 00:05:24,307\n我有提到綠能的部分綠能的部分因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高嘛我們看數字來說的時候按照去年的一個發電成本的時候每一度是大概3.49元對不對3.89元\n\n16\n00:05:27,449 --> 00:05:47,688\n是這個數字嗎?台電的平均發電成本?去年的發電成本稅前是3.95稅後是4.17所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的一個狀態那我這邊特別來看一個情況就是我們來看整個台灣的一個電價走勢\n\n17\n00:05:52,252 --> 00:06:00,557\n08年4月的時候每度電價是2.4071元到2016年4月的時候每一度電價是2.5488元就是這8年來的時候上漲5.895.89那麼從2016年到2023年的時候呢到現在每一度的那個電價是到3.1154元上漲22.23%這三個時間點是\n\n18\n00:06:18,686 --> 00:06:41,500\n在馬政府時代的時候上漲5.89%在蔡英文政府的時候還沒有下台因為這次還要上漲10%按照之前丟出來的風向的時候已經上漲22.23%所以我們這邊要特別提到一個點就是說在小英政府\n\n19\n00:06:42,781 --> 00:07:03,596\n最後一次電價審議的時候．如果馬上提高10%的時候．他可能就會在卸任之前．為台灣留下了一個高電價的一個時代．那我們一定不會見這個狀態．因為昨天．他在回應我們委員答覆的時候．他說如果我們現在電價．\n\n20\n00:07:05,782 --> 00:07:09,907\n調漲了10%對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%\n\n21\n00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:26,823\n這是國民新主委昨天回答我們委員的一個答覆所以說當電價調漲．他說超過2%對,波動效果超過2%2%就是我們通常那個警戒線\n\n22\n00:07:59,614 --> 00:08:26,052\n民生用電調漲、工業用電調漲全部都調漲特高外面調漲那這個部分的時候呢選前的時候全部都動漲選後就一次要調期大家非常的惶恐那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就盡量不調那我同時要針對這個部分也提到我們的原署之前都有節能加電補助目前是不是會繼續會續辦\n\n23\n00:08:28,554 --> 00:08:48,910\n目前還在辦理當中然後會不會擴大舉辦未來的部分能源署有在爭取未來的經費所以針對今天的質詢本席有兩個主張第一個希望民生用電不要調漲第二個希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦能夠擴大辦理好不好是是是謝謝謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10924\t14065\t主席好,我想請一下王美花部長我們再請部長\n20523\t46263\t部長好首先感謝主席今天安排了這個有關於電價調漲的專案報告我在想說在進行這報告之前的時候我昨天看到一個美國能源部最新的一個說帖他說美國能源部建議全美現有的藍煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠部長你知道這個新聞嗎?\n49645\t74475\t我有看到這個新聞坦白說我看到這個新聞我也是有點意外啦因為我在想說我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的一個政策為主要的參考的一個狀態那美國內運部竟然會建議全美的燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠那這是一個很重要的一個訊息然後另外一個部分就是在日本\n75095\t88199\t他們也很清楚他們在2030年預計要讓整個核能的發電量占比提高到兩成那麼天然氣的一個使用從2014年的40%還要降到2030年的27%我想這數字部長應該都很清楚對不對?\n94821\t112594\t對,各報告都有相關的問題我想請教,其實很多人也都問到這狀態因為我們其實黨產最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的一個修法案希望能夠讓就是合一合二重啟跟合三有延逸的可能性你對於這樣的一個修法方向你知不支持?\n113872\t127871\t我們尊重委員的提案我們尊重委員提案那委員會在委員的討論所以您認為說台灣目前就是整個在堅持的一個非核路線的時候你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去\n129541\t155642\t其實當時講的非核其實就是目前的法規就是運轉到40年所以我們是讓它運轉到40年那事實上核二因為沒有乾除所以它事實上還不到40年所以你意思是說當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠的一個營運的一個時間並不是真正的一個政策不是一個能源政策的一個目標是這樣子嗎?是考慮到就是核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態而不是一個政策目標\n158684\t185630\t我意思是說我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止那因為核能在台灣跟在美國很大的不同是確實台灣在地震帶台灣很小那核廢料到現在要保住所以非核的能源目前執政黨目前來說對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎還是說他並不是這樣子不是一個政策堅持他只是因為針對核一核二核三實際運作的狀態\n188651\t211739\t40年到了所以才變成非核是這個意思嗎?在原來的這個非核確實都讓它運轉到40年沒有錯所以它不是一個政策目標所以說如果說這樣子合一合二合三它的運作可以往後延伸的時候那非核的目標能源政策就可以先把它放在一邊是這個意思但是展演的部分就涉及到非常多的議題\n214921\t234867\t為什麼特別講這個部分因為我們今天在講說整個電價調漲那我想說如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候台灣的電價永遠會漲不停這是一個很重要的一個關鍵我們來看幾個數字我們在看整個 原本在想說要用綠能來補核能其實目前已經嚴重跳票了\n235427\t258946\t以天然氣來補核能的時候會讓暖化問題更為嚴重我覺得這是我們在看這一次電費調漲的時候我其實會有一個政策面的一個考量在這個地方我們往下看一下整個數字來看的時候台電年度的一個發購電量其實我們很清楚看到就是2016跟2023年的一個比較\n261688\t262489\t韓文如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的\n275674\t275994\t我們再往下\n293301\t307357\t我在想說我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候我看我們提出來的報告當中主要沒有提到綠能沒有提到綠能價格的問題沒有提到核能往下佔比的問題主要又提到是國際價格上漲 對不對\n309799\t324307\t我有提到綠能的部分綠能的部分因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高嘛我們看數字來說的時候按照去年的一個發電成本的時候每一度是大概3.49元對不對3.89元\n327449\t347688\t是這個數字嗎?台電的平均發電成本?去年的發電成本稅前是3.95稅後是4.17所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的一個狀態那我這邊特別來看一個情況就是我們來看整個台灣的一個電價走勢\n352252\t360557\t08年4月的時候每度電價是2.4071元到2016年4月的時候每一度電價是2.5488元就是這8年來的時候上漲5.895.89那麼從2016年到2023年的時候呢到現在每一度的那個電價是到3.1154元上漲22.23%這三個時間點是\n378686\t401500\t在馬政府時代的時候上漲5.89%在蔡英文政府的時候還沒有下台因為這次還要上漲10%按照之前丟出來的風向的時候已經上漲22.23%所以我們這邊要特別提到一個點就是說在小英政府\n402781\t423596\t最後一次電價審議的時候．如果馬上提高10%的時候．他可能就會在卸任之前．為台灣留下了一個高電價的一個時代．那我們一定不會見這個狀態．因為昨天．他在回應我們委員答覆的時候．他說如果我們現在電價．\n425782\t429907\t調漲了10%對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%\n441639\t446823\t這是國民新主委昨天回答我們委員的一個答覆所以說當電價調漲．他說超過2%對,波動效果超過2%2%就是我們通常那個警戒線\n462073\t479514\t﹗\n479614\t506052\t民生用電調漲、工業用電調漲全部都調漲特高外面調漲那這個部分的時候呢選前的時候全部都動漲選後就一次要調期大家非常的惶恐那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就盡量不調那我同時要針對這個部分也提到我們的原署之前都有節能加電補助目前是不是會繼續會續辦\n508554\t528910\t目前還在辦理當中然後會不會擴大舉辦未來的部分能源署有在爭取未來的經費所以針對今天的質詢本席有兩個主張第一個希望民生用電不要調漲第二個希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦能夠擴大辦理好不好是是是謝謝謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘\n","txt":"主席好,我想請一下王美花部長我們再請部長\n部長好首先感謝主席今天安排了這個有關於電價調漲的專案報告我在想說在進行這報告之前的時候我昨天看到一個美國能源部最新的一個說帖他說美國能源部建議全美現有的藍煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠部長你知道這個新聞嗎?\n我有看到這個新聞坦白說我看到這個新聞我也是有點意外啦因為我在想說我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的一個政策為主要的參考的一個狀態那美國內運部竟然會建議全美的燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠那這是一個很重要的一個訊息然後另外一個部分就是在日本\n他們也很清楚他們在2030年預計要讓整個核能的發電量占比提高到兩成那麼天然氣的一個使用從2014年的40%還要降到2030年的27%我想這數字部長應該都很清楚對不對?\n對,各報告都有相關的問題我想請教,其實很多人也都問到這狀態因為我們其實黨產最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的一個修法案希望能夠讓就是合一合二重啟跟合三有延逸的可能性你對於這樣的一個修法方向你知不支持?\n我們尊重委員的提案我們尊重委員提案那委員會在委員的討論所以您認為說台灣目前就是整個在堅持的一個非核路線的時候你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去\n其實當時講的非核其實就是目前的法規就是運轉到40年所以我們是讓它運轉到40年那事實上核二因為沒有乾除所以它事實上還不到40年所以你意思是說當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠的一個營運的一個時間並不是真正的一個政策不是一個能源政策的一個目標是這樣子嗎?是考慮到就是核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態而不是一個政策目標\n我意思是說我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止那因為核能在台灣跟在美國很大的不同是確實台灣在地震帶台灣很小那核廢料到現在要保住所以非核的能源目前執政黨目前來說對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎還是說他並不是這樣子不是一個政策堅持他只是因為針對核一核二核三實際運作的狀態\n40年到了所以才變成非核是這個意思嗎?在原來的這個非核確實都讓它運轉到40年沒有錯所以它不是一個政策目標所以說如果說這樣子合一合二合三它的運作可以往後延伸的時候那非核的目標能源政策就可以先把它放在一邊是這個意思但是展演的部分就涉及到非常多的議題\n為什麼特別講這個部分因為我們今天在講說整個電價調漲那我想說如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候台灣的電價永遠會漲不停這是一個很重要的一個關鍵我們來看幾個數字我們在看整個 原本在想說要用綠能來補核能其實目前已經嚴重跳票了\n以天然氣來補核能的時候會讓暖化問題更為嚴重我覺得這是我們在看這一次電費調漲的時候我其實會有一個政策面的一個考量在這個地方我們往下看一下整個數字來看的時候台電年度的一個發購電量其實我們很清楚看到就是2016跟2023年的一個比較\n韓文如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的\n我們再往下\n我在想說我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候我看我們提出來的報告當中主要沒有提到綠能沒有提到綠能價格的問題沒有提到核能往下佔比的問題主要又提到是國際價格上漲 對不對\n我有提到綠能的部分綠能的部分因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高嘛我們看數字來說的時候按照去年的一個發電成本的時候每一度是大概3.49元對不對3.89元\n是這個數字嗎?台電的平均發電成本?去年的發電成本稅前是3.95稅後是4.17所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的一個狀態那我這邊特別來看一個情況就是我們來看整個台灣的一個電價走勢\n08年4月的時候每度電價是2.4071元到2016年4月的時候每一度電價是2.5488元就是這8年來的時候上漲5.895.89那麼從2016年到2023年的時候呢到現在每一度的那個電價是到3.1154元上漲22.23%這三個時間點是\n在馬政府時代的時候上漲5.89%在蔡英文政府的時候還沒有下台因為這次還要上漲10%按照之前丟出來的風向的時候已經上漲22.23%所以我們這邊要特別提到一個點就是說在小英政府\n最後一次電價審議的時候．如果馬上提高10%的時候．他可能就會在卸任之前．為台灣留下了一個高電價的一個時代．那我們一定不會見這個狀態．因為昨天．他在回應我們委員答覆的時候．他說如果我們現在電價．\n調漲了10%對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%\n這是國民新主委昨天回答我們委員的一個答覆所以說當電價調漲．他說超過2%對,波動效果超過2%2%就是我們通常那個警戒線\n﹗\n民生用電調漲、工業用電調漲全部都調漲特高外面調漲那這個部分的時候呢選前的時候全部都動漲選後就一次要調期大家非常的惶恐那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就盡量不調那我同時要針對這個部分也提到我們的原署之前都有節能加電補助目前是不是會繼續會續辦\n目前還在辦理當中然後會不會擴大舉辦未來的部分能源署有在爭取未來的經費所以針對今天的質詢本席有兩個主張第一個希望民生用電不要調漲第二個希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦能夠擴大辦理好不好是是是謝謝謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.924 --> 00:14.065\n主席好,我想請一下王美花部長我們再請部長\n\n00:20.523 --> 00:46.263\n部長好首先感謝主席今天安排了這個有關於電價調漲的專案報告我在想說在進行這報告之前的時候我昨天看到一個美國能源部最新的一個說帖他說美國能源部建議全美現有的藍煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠部長你知道這個新聞嗎?\n\n00:49.645 --> 01:14.475\n我有看到這個新聞坦白說我看到這個新聞我也是有點意外啦因為我在想說我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的一個政策為主要的參考的一個狀態那美國內運部竟然會建議全美的燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠那這是一個很重要的一個訊息然後另外一個部分就是在日本\n\n01:15.095 --> 01:28.199\n他們也很清楚他們在2030年預計要讓整個核能的發電量占比提高到兩成那麼天然氣的一個使用從2014年的40%還要降到2030年的27%我想這數字部長應該都很清楚對不對?\n\n01:34.821 --> 01:52.594\n對,各報告都有相關的問題我想請教,其實很多人也都問到這狀態因為我們其實黨產最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的一個修法案希望能夠讓就是合一合二重啟跟合三有延逸的可能性你對於這樣的一個修法方向你知不支持?\n\n01:53.872 --> 02:07.871\n我們尊重委員的提案我們尊重委員提案那委員會在委員的討論所以您認為說台灣目前就是整個在堅持的一個非核路線的時候你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去\n\n02:09.541 --> 02:35.642\n其實當時講的非核其實就是目前的法規就是運轉到40年所以我們是讓它運轉到40年那事實上核二因為沒有乾除所以它事實上還不到40年所以你意思是說當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠的一個營運的一個時間並不是真正的一個政策不是一個能源政策的一個目標是這樣子嗎?是考慮到就是核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態而不是一個政策目標\n\n02:38.684 --> 03:05.630\n我意思是說我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止那因為核能在台灣跟在美國很大的不同是確實台灣在地震帶台灣很小那核廢料到現在要保住所以非核的能源目前執政黨目前來說對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎還是說他並不是這樣子不是一個政策堅持他只是因為針對核一核二核三實際運作的狀態\n\n03:08.651 --> 03:31.739\n40年到了所以才變成非核是這個意思嗎?在原來的這個非核確實都讓它運轉到40年沒有錯所以它不是一個政策目標所以說如果說這樣子合一合二合三它的運作可以往後延伸的時候那非核的目標能源政策就可以先把它放在一邊是這個意思但是展演的部分就涉及到非常多的議題\n\n03:34.921 --> 03:54.867\n為什麼特別講這個部分因為我們今天在講說整個電價調漲那我想說如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候台灣的電價永遠會漲不停這是一個很重要的一個關鍵我們來看幾個數字我們在看整個原本在想說要用綠能來補核能其實目前已經嚴重跳票了\n\n03:55.427 --> 04:18.946\n以天然氣來補核能的時候會讓暖化問題更為嚴重我覺得這是我們在看這一次電費調漲的時候我其實會有一個政策面的一個考量在這個地方我們往下看一下整個數字來看的時候台電年度的一個發購電量其實我們很清楚看到就是2016跟2023年的一個比較\n\n04:21.688 --> 04:22.489\n韓文如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的\n\n04:35.674 --> 04:35.994\n我們再往下\n\n04:53.301 --> 05:07.357\n我在想說我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候我看我們提出來的報告當中主要沒有提到綠能沒有提到綠能價格的問題沒有提到核能往下佔比的問題主要又提到是國際價格上漲對不對\n\n05:09.799 --> 05:24.307\n我有提到綠能的部分綠能的部分因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高嘛我們看數字來說的時候按照去年的一個發電成本的時候每一度是大概3.49元對不對3.89元\n\n05:27.449 --> 05:47.688\n是這個數字嗎?台電的平均發電成本?去年的發電成本稅前是3.95稅後是4.17所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的一個狀態那我這邊特別來看一個情況就是我們來看整個台灣的一個電價走勢\n\n05:52.252 --> 06:00.557\n08年4月的時候每度電價是2.4071元到2016年4月的時候每一度電價是2.5488元就是這8年來的時候上漲5.895.89那麼從2016年到2023年的時候呢到現在每一度的那個電價是到3.1154元上漲22.23%這三個時間點是\n\n06:18.686 --> 06:41.500\n在馬政府時代的時候上漲5.89%在蔡英文政府的時候還沒有下台因為這次還要上漲10%按照之前丟出來的風向的時候已經上漲22.23%所以我們這邊要特別提到一個點就是說在小英政府\n\n06:42.781 --> 07:03.596\n最後一次電價審議的時候．如果馬上提高10%的時候．他可能就會在卸任之前．為台灣留下了一個高電價的一個時代．那我們一定不會見這個狀態．因為昨天．他在回應我們委員答覆的時候．他說如果我們現在電價．\n\n07:05.782 --> 07:09.907\n調漲了10%對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%\n\n07:21.639 --> 07:26.823\n這是國民新主委昨天回答我們委員的一個答覆所以說當電價調漲．他說超過2%對,波動效果超過2%2%就是我們通常那個警戒線\n\n07:59.614 --> 08:26.052\n民生用電調漲、工業用電調漲全部都調漲特高外面調漲那這個部分的時候呢選前的時候全部都動漲選後就一次要調期大家非常的惶恐那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就盡量不調那我同時要針對這個部分也提到我們的原署之前都有節能加電補助目前是不是會繼續會續辦\n\n08:28.554 --> 08:48.910\n目前還在辦理當中然後會不會擴大舉辦未來的部分能源署有在爭取未來的經費所以針對今天的質詢本席有兩個主張第一個希望民生用電不要調漲第二個希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦能夠擴大辦理好不好是是是謝謝謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.924,"end":14.065,"text":"主席好,我想請一下王美花部長我們再請部長"},{"start":20.523,"end":46.263,"text":"部長好首先感謝主席今天安排了這個有關於電價調漲的專案報告我在想說在進行這報告之前的時候我昨天看到一個美國能源部最新的一個說帖他說美國能源部建議全美現有的藍煤發電廠都轉型成核能發電廠部長你知道這個新聞嗎?"},{"start":49.645,"end":74.475,"text":"我有看到這個新聞坦白說我看到這個新聞我也是有點意外啦因為我在想說我們的政府其實某個部分也很以美國的一個政策為主要的參考的一個狀態那美國內運部竟然會建議全美的燃煤發電廠都改成核電廠那這是一個很重要的一個訊息然後另外一個部分就是在日本"},{"start":75.095,"end":88.199,"text":"他們也很清楚他們在2030年預計要讓整個核能的發電量占比提高到兩成那麼天然氣的一個使用從2014年的40%還要降到2030年的27%我想這數字部長應該都很清楚對不對?"},{"start":94.821,"end":112.594,"text":"對,各報告都有相關的問題我想請教,其實很多人也都問到這狀態因為我們其實黨產最近有提出一個原子反應器設施管制法的一個修法案希望能夠讓就是合一合二重啟跟合三有延逸的可能性你對於這樣的一個修法方向你知不支持?"},{"start":113.872,"end":127.871,"text":"我們尊重委員的提案我們尊重委員提案那委員會在委員的討論所以您認為說台灣目前就是整個在堅持的一個非核路線的時候你覺得是不是要繼續堅持下去"},{"start":129.541,"end":155.642,"text":"其實當時講的非核其實就是目前的法規就是運轉到40年所以我們是讓它運轉到40年那事實上核二因為沒有乾除所以它事實上還不到40年所以你意思是說當時講非核狀態只是因為現有核電廠的一個營運的一個時間並不是真正的一個政策不是一個能源政策的一個目標是這樣子嗎?是考慮到就是核一、核二、核三現有的實際狀態而不是一個政策目標"},{"start":158.684,"end":185.63,"text":"我意思是說我們講的非核是因為讓這些核電用到40年以後停止那因為核能在台灣跟在美國很大的不同是確實台灣在地震帶台灣很小那核廢料到現在要保住所以非核的能源目前執政黨目前來說對於非核的能源政策還繼續堅持嗎還是說他並不是這樣子不是一個政策堅持他只是因為針對核一核二核三實際運作的狀態"},{"start":188.651,"end":211.739,"text":"40年到了所以才變成非核是這個意思嗎?在原來的這個非核確實都讓它運轉到40年沒有錯所以它不是一個政策目標所以說如果說這樣子合一合二合三它的運作可以往後延伸的時候那非核的目標能源政策就可以先把它放在一邊是這個意思但是展演的部分就涉及到非常多的議題"},{"start":214.921,"end":234.867,"text":"為什麼特別講這個部分因為我們今天在講說整個電價調漲那我想說如果發電的結構沒有調整的時候台灣的電價永遠會漲不停這是一個很重要的一個關鍵我們來看幾個數字我們在看整個 原本在想說要用綠能來補核能其實目前已經嚴重跳票了"},{"start":235.427,"end":258.946,"text":"以天然氣來補核能的時候會讓暖化問題更為嚴重我覺得這是我們在看這一次電費調漲的時候我其實會有一個政策面的一個考量在這個地方我們往下看一下整個數字來看的時候台電年度的一個發購電量其實我們很清楚看到就是2016跟2023年的一個比較"},{"start":261.688,"end":262.489,"text":"韓文如果說能夠下降而我們還是有足夠的"},{"start":275.674,"end":275.994,"text":"我們再往下"},{"start":293.301,"end":307.357,"text":"我在想說我們這一次整個電價大漲的時候我看我們提出來的報告當中主要沒有提到綠能沒有提到綠能價格的問題沒有提到核能往下佔比的問題主要又提到是國際價格上漲 對不對"},{"start":309.799,"end":324.307,"text":"我有提到綠能的部分綠能的部分因為綠能的部分成本其實還是偏高嘛我們看數字來說的時候按照去年的一個發電成本的時候每一度是大概3.49元對不對3.89元"},{"start":327.449,"end":347.688,"text":"是這個數字嗎?台電的平均發電成本?去年的發電成本稅前是3.95稅後是4.17所以等於是每賣一度電就會虧一點多元的一個狀態那我這邊特別來看一個情況就是我們來看整個台灣的一個電價走勢"},{"start":352.252,"end":360.557,"text":"08年4月的時候每度電價是2.4071元到2016年4月的時候每一度電價是2.5488元就是這8年來的時候上漲5.895.89那麼從2016年到2023年的時候呢到現在每一度的那個電價是到3.1154元上漲22.23%這三個時間點是"},{"start":378.686,"end":401.5,"text":"在馬政府時代的時候上漲5.89%在蔡英文政府的時候還沒有下台因為這次還要上漲10%按照之前丟出來的風向的時候已經上漲22.23%所以我們這邊要特別提到一個點就是說在小英政府"},{"start":402.781,"end":423.596,"text":"最後一次電價審議的時候．如果馬上提高10%的時候．他可能就會在卸任之前．為台灣留下了一個高電價的一個時代．那我們一定不會見這個狀態．因為昨天．他在回應我們委員答覆的時候．他說如果我們現在電價．"},{"start":425.782,"end":429.907,"text":"調漲了10%對物價的直接影響大概在0.1%多可是對整體後續延伸的波動效果會超過2%"},{"start":441.639,"end":446.823,"text":"這是國民新主委昨天回答我們委員的一個答覆所以說當電價調漲．他說超過2%對,波動效果超過2%2%就是我們通常那個警戒線"},{"start":462.073,"end":479.514,"text":"﹗"},{"start":479.614,"end":506.052,"text":"民生用電調漲、工業用電調漲全部都調漲特高外面調漲那這個部分的時候呢選前的時候全部都動漲選後就一次要調期大家非常的惶恐那我們希望對於民生用電的部分能夠不調就盡量不調那我同時要針對這個部分也提到我們的原署之前都有節能加電補助目前是不是會繼續會續辦"},{"start":508.554,"end":528.91,"text":"目前還在辦理當中然後會不會擴大舉辦未來的部分能源署有在爭取未來的經費所以針對今天的質詢本席有兩個主張第一個希望民生用電不要調漲第二個希望能源署節能家電補助能夠續辦能夠擴大辦理好不好是是是謝謝謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘"}]}}}}