{"id":149542,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149542","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbee7e57db6a344d15d52afbb2d65d0dae1f8ba9b0039caa7a6f1752e0d5a860ce85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:37:41 - 11:43:33","影片長度":"00:05:52","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-3"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":352,"end_time":"2024-03-07T11:43:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T11:37:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":669,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時37分）好，謝謝主席，我請邱部長。"],["主席：來，部長請。"],["邱部長國正：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。今天大家應該都在問你有關於金廈海域的爭議問題，但是我這邊要直接跟部長來談，就是有關於我們國防部相關採購的問題。因為大家都知道，在去年的年底，我們不是有弟兄從艦艇上落海？在短短1個月後，我們的海軍就採購落海警示器。這個事實上不只是海軍需要，空軍、陸軍事實上都有需要，而且幾乎在同一個時間，陸軍跟空軍也都做了採購。","但是，我給部長看一下，同樣的落海警示器，當然可能你們的名字有點不一樣啦！什麼個人定位信標等等之類的，其實都是類似。在陸軍和空軍採用公開徵求、公開的採購，但是在海軍的部分採用的是限制性招標，而且以這個有「急迫性」來做限制性招標，這就有點奇怪了！三軍都有同樣的需求採購，也幾乎在同樣的時間分別地要招標，為什麼獨獨海軍要採取限制性招標？這個是一個部分。","另外，我也接獲投訴，他寫得非常非常清楚，說我們海軍採購是1萬2,000個，因為這個在媒體都有報導，是TB-520。那麼TB-520一般運轉時間是36小時，但他覺得很奇怪，我們一般不是說救難時間是72小時、「黃金72小時」？怎麼這個只有36小時？事實上，現在市面上是有時間更多的。另外更重要的是你也能看到的，右邊的是我們採購的TB-520，其官網上的採購價格跟我們事實上、實際採購價格差了大概六、七千塊錢，都是美金啦！這是用美金計。TB-520不是軍規，在網站上可以看到根本是一般商用性的。就網站上的價格，我們採購1萬2,000個，採購的價格又顯然比官網價格多很多，才讓整個採購金額多了六、七千萬。在這邊，因為我的質詢時間非常有限，我想請部長到時候問問包含陸軍、空軍，你們是怎麼採購的？為什麼你們都公開招標？我認為陸軍、空軍的程序比較正常啦！海軍的招標是怎麼回事？很多招標資訊，事實上媒體都有相關報導，當然在數量部分你們沒有對外很詳細地說明，大概是一萬多個，我接獲的爆料裡面寫得非常詳細，說是採購1萬2,000個，所以就非常質疑海軍這次採購為什麼空軍、陸軍等其他單位不一樣。部長在這邊能不能承諾我，你回去可以找他們來談，如果這裡面確實招標有問題，甚至有人謀不臧的問題，該調查就調查、該處理就處理？可不可以？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，首先很感激委員提供這些資料。事實上，國防部在做任何事情之前，累積以往經驗得到一個答案：一切一定要依法作為、作程序推動。至於這裡可能有原因，我也不是很清楚狀況，但我……"],["王委員鴻薇：事實上，我覺得如果海、陸、空都要，為什麼不可以一起採購？"],["邱部長國正：是，但也是在案子突然發生以後緊急採購，但又有一項規則。對於委員剛才所提幾個疑點，我們絕對不推諉，把問題搞清楚以後，我會請陸海空、甚至由國防部派員搞清楚，再向委員作報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，搞清楚之後報告。但重點是絕對不要護短喔！"],["邱部長國正：不會、不會，絕對不會。"],["王委員鴻薇：該處理就處理、該改進就要改進，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：絕對這樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：不要讓人家覺得有鬼。這一定是從你們內部傳出來的，裡面寫得非常、非常詳細。"],["邱部長國正：是。我多講一句話，國防部現在任何案子只要違法的話，我第一個動作就是送法辦，其他程序照走。送法辦的原因在哪裡？代表我們國防部不吃案。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，絕對不能吃案，這是原則問題。"],["邱部長國正：到目前為止，我有這個信心，一切要合法。謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員、邱部長，各位請回。","請徐委員欣瑩發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-3","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","馬文君","陳永康","洪申翰","林楚茵","林憶君","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:36,149\n同樣的這個落海警示器那當然他可能你們的名字有點不一樣啦什麼個人定位信標什麼等等之類其實都是類似在陸軍和空軍採了公開徵求公開的採購但是在海軍的部分呢採用的是限制性招標而且以說這個有急迫性有急迫性來做限制性招標\n\n5\n00:01:37,540 --> 00:02:02,233\n那這就有點奇怪了三軍都有同樣的需求採購也幾乎在同樣的時間分別的要招標為什麼獨獨海軍他要採取限制性招標這個是一個部分另外我也接獲投訴他寫得非常非常清楚\n\n6\n00:02:03,473 --> 00:02:03,794\n說我們海軍採購是一萬兩千個\n\n7\n00:02:09,827 --> 00:02:37,512\n那這裡採貢因為這個都已經是你們甚至都在媒體都報導是TB520那麼TB520呢他說一般的預轉時間是36小時他覺得很奇怪一般我們不說我們的救難時間是72小時黃金72小時那怎麼我們這個只有36小時因為現在市面上事實上是有這個時間更多的\n\n8\n00:02:38,852 --> 00:02:53,721\n另外更重要的是,你可以看到在右邊的是我們採購的TB520,他在他的官網上,他的採購的價格,跟我們事實上呢,跟我們的實際的採購價格,價格差了。\n\n9\n00:02:57,059 --> 00:03:22,085\n他都是美金啦他就是用美金差了大概六七千塊錢差六七千塊因為這個TB520他不是軍規他在網站上可以看到他根本是一般商用性的那所以在網站上價格比我們如果我們是採購一萬兩千個這個價格呢顯然我們是比他官網的價格多很多\n\n10\n00:03:23,311 --> 00:03:51,658\n所以這樣子整個的採購的金額變成是多了六七千萬所以我在這邊因為我的質詢時間非常有限我想請部長能夠到時候可以問問包含陸軍空軍你們是怎麼採購的為什麼你們都公開招標我認為陸軍空軍的程序比較正常那海軍這個招標是怎麼回事\n\n11\n00:03:53,619 --> 00:04:12,937\n因為很多這個招標相關的他都已經事實上媒體都有在相關的報導那當然數量的部分你們沒有對外很詳細的說明大概是一萬多個那我接獲爆料裡面寫的非常詳細他說是採購一萬兩千個就非常質疑這次採購為什麼\n\n12\n00:04:14,679 --> 00:04:34,723\n海軍跟其他空軍陸軍不一樣所以部長在這邊能不能承諾我你回去可以找他們來談如果這裡面確實有這個招標有問題甚至上有人模不章的問題那麼該調查就調查該處理就處理可不可以\n\n13\n00:04:35,402 --> 00:04:55,657\n報告委員報告,首先很感激委員提供這些資料,事實上國防部在做任何事情之前,累計以往經驗,得到一個答案,一切一定要按照依法程作為來做一個程序推動,這裡可能有原因,我也不是很清楚狀況。其實事實上我覺得海陸空如果都要的話根本不是不可以一起採購的。\n\n14\n00:04:56,257 --> 00:04:57,558\n對,搞清楚之後,但是重點是絕對不要護短\n\n15\n00:05:19,058 --> 00:05:42,588\n該處理就處理,該改進就改進,好不好?不要讓人家覺得很有鬼,不然這個一定是你們內部傳出來的,裡面寫得非常非常的詳細我跟你們報告的話,我多講一句話,我們國防部現在任何一個案子只要有違法的話我第一個動作,送法辦,其他程序照走,送法辦原因在哪裡?在我們國防部不吃案\n\n16\n00:05:43,268 --> 00:05:43,408\n邱國正報告業務概況\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t2331\t請那個邱部長來 部長請王委員好好 部長好今天大概應該很多都在問你有關於驚嚇海域的爭議的問題但是呢我這邊要直接跟部長來談就是有關於\n25410\t47268\t我們這個國防部相關的採購的問題因為大家都知道在去年的年底我們不是有弟兄從那個艦艇上從洛海那在短短一個月後我們的海軍就採購這個洛海警示器洛海警示器\n48630\t65908\t這個事實上不只是海軍需要因為空軍陸軍事實上都有需要而且幾乎在同一個時間陸軍跟空軍也都做了採購但是我給部長看一下\n67096\t96149\t同樣的這個落海警示器那當然他可能你們的名字有點不一樣啦什麼個人定位信標什麼等等之類其實都是類似在陸軍和空軍採了公開徵求公開的採購但是在海軍的部分呢採用的是限制性招標而且以說這個有急迫性有急迫性來做限制性招標\n97540\t122233\t那這就有點奇怪了三軍都有同樣的需求採購也幾乎在同樣的時間分別的要招標為什麼獨獨海軍他要採取限制性招標這個是一個部分另外我也接獲投訴他寫得非常非常清楚\n123473\t123794\t說我們海軍採購是一萬兩千個\n129827\t157512\t那這裡採貢因為這個都已經是你們甚至都在媒體都報導是TB520那麼TB520呢他說一般的預轉時間是36小時他覺得很奇怪一般我們不說我們的救難時間是72小時黃金72小時那怎麼我們這個只有36小時因為現在市面上事實上是有這個時間更多的\n158852\t173721\t另外更重要的是,你可以看到在右邊的是我們採購的TB520,他在他的官網上,他的採購的價格,跟我們事實上呢,跟我們的實際的採購價格,價格差了。\n177059\t202085\t他都是美金啦他就是用美金差了大概六七千塊錢差六七千塊因為這個TB520他不是軍規他在網站上可以看到他根本是一般商用性的那所以在網站上價格比我們如果我們是採購一萬兩千個這個價格呢顯然我們是比他官網的價格多很多\n203311\t231658\t所以這樣子整個的採購的金額變成是多了六七千萬所以我在這邊因為我的質詢時間非常有限我想請部長能夠到時候可以問問包含陸軍空軍你們是怎麼採購的為什麼你們都公開招標我認為陸軍空軍的程序比較正常那海軍這個招標是怎麼回事\n233619\t252937\t因為很多這個招標相關的他都已經事實上媒體都有在相關的報導那當然數量的部分你們沒有對外很詳細的說明大概是一萬多個那我接獲爆料裡面寫的非常詳細他說是採購一萬兩千個就非常質疑這次採購為什麼\n254679\t274723\t海軍跟其他空軍陸軍不一樣所以部長在這邊能不能承諾我你回去可以找他們來談如果這裡面確實有這個招標有問題甚至上有人模不章的問題那麼該調查就調查該處理就處理可不可以\n275402\t295657\t報告委員報告,首先很感激委員提供這些資料,事實上國防部在做任何事情之前,累計以往經驗,得到一個答案,一切一定要按照依法程作為來做一個程序推動,這裡可能有原因,我也不是很清楚狀況。其實事實上我覺得海陸空如果都要的話根本不是不可以一起採購的。\n296257\t297558\t對,搞清楚之後,但是重點是絕對不要護短\n319058\t342588\t該處理就處理,該改進就改進,好不好?不要讓人家覺得很有鬼,不然這個一定是你們內部傳出來的,裡面寫得非常非常的詳細我跟你們報告的話,我多講一句話,我們國防部現在任何一個案子只要有違法的話我第一個動作,送法辦,其他程序照走,送法辦原因在哪裡?在我們國防部不吃案\n343268\t343408\t邱國正報告業務概況\n","txt":"請那個邱部長來 部長請王委員好好 部長好今天大概應該很多都在問你有關於驚嚇海域的爭議的問題但是呢我這邊要直接跟部長來談就是有關於\n我們這個國防部相關的採購的問題因為大家都知道在去年的年底我們不是有弟兄從那個艦艇上從洛海那在短短一個月後我們的海軍就採購這個洛海警示器洛海警示器\n這個事實上不只是海軍需要因為空軍陸軍事實上都有需要而且幾乎在同一個時間陸軍跟空軍也都做了採購但是我給部長看一下\n同樣的這個落海警示器那當然他可能你們的名字有點不一樣啦什麼個人定位信標什麼等等之類其實都是類似在陸軍和空軍採了公開徵求公開的採購但是在海軍的部分呢採用的是限制性招標而且以說這個有急迫性有急迫性來做限制性招標\n那這就有點奇怪了三軍都有同樣的需求採購也幾乎在同樣的時間分別的要招標為什麼獨獨海軍他要採取限制性招標這個是一個部分另外我也接獲投訴他寫得非常非常清楚\n說我們海軍採購是一萬兩千個\n那這裡採貢因為這個都已經是你們甚至都在媒體都報導是TB520那麼TB520呢他說一般的預轉時間是36小時他覺得很奇怪一般我們不說我們的救難時間是72小時黃金72小時那怎麼我們這個只有36小時因為現在市面上事實上是有這個時間更多的\n另外更重要的是,你可以看到在右邊的是我們採購的TB520,他在他的官網上,他的採購的價格,跟我們事實上呢,跟我們的實際的採購價格,價格差了。\n他都是美金啦他就是用美金差了大概六七千塊錢差六七千塊因為這個TB520他不是軍規他在網站上可以看到他根本是一般商用性的那所以在網站上價格比我們如果我們是採購一萬兩千個這個價格呢顯然我們是比他官網的價格多很多\n所以這樣子整個的採購的金額變成是多了六七千萬所以我在這邊因為我的質詢時間非常有限我想請部長能夠到時候可以問問包含陸軍空軍你們是怎麼採購的為什麼你們都公開招標我認為陸軍空軍的程序比較正常那海軍這個招標是怎麼回事\n因為很多這個招標相關的他都已經事實上媒體都有在相關的報導那當然數量的部分你們沒有對外很詳細的說明大概是一萬多個那我接獲爆料裡面寫的非常詳細他說是採購一萬兩千個就非常質疑這次採購為什麼\n海軍跟其他空軍陸軍不一樣所以部長在這邊能不能承諾我你回去可以找他們來談如果這裡面確實有這個招標有問題甚至上有人模不章的問題那麼該調查就調查該處理就處理可不可以\n報告委員報告,首先很感激委員提供這些資料,事實上國防部在做任何事情之前,累計以往經驗,得到一個答案,一切一定要按照依法程作為來做一個程序推動,這裡可能有原因,我也不是很清楚狀況。其實事實上我覺得海陸空如果都要的話根本不是不可以一起採購的。\n對,搞清楚之後,但是重點是絕對不要護短\n該處理就處理,該改進就改進,好不好?不要讓人家覺得很有鬼,不然這個一定是你們內部傳出來的,裡面寫得非常非常的詳細我跟你們報告的話,我多講一句話,我們國防部現在任何一個案子只要有違法的話我第一個動作,送法辦,其他程序照走,送法辦原因在哪裡?在我們國防部不吃案\n邱國正報告業務概況\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:02.331\n請那個邱部長來部長請王委員好好部長好今天大概應該很多都在問你有關於驚嚇海域的爭議的問題但是呢我這邊要直接跟部長來談就是有關於\n\n00:25.410 --> 00:47.268\n我們這個國防部相關的採購的問題因為大家都知道在去年的年底我們不是有弟兄從那個艦艇上從洛海那在短短一個月後我們的海軍就採購這個洛海警示器洛海警示器\n\n00:48.630 --> 01:05.908\n這個事實上不只是海軍需要因為空軍陸軍事實上都有需要而且幾乎在同一個時間陸軍跟空軍也都做了採購但是我給部長看一下\n\n01:07.096 --> 01:36.149\n同樣的這個落海警示器那當然他可能你們的名字有點不一樣啦什麼個人定位信標什麼等等之類其實都是類似在陸軍和空軍採了公開徵求公開的採購但是在海軍的部分呢採用的是限制性招標而且以說這個有急迫性有急迫性來做限制性招標\n\n01:37.540 --> 02:02.233\n那這就有點奇怪了三軍都有同樣的需求採購也幾乎在同樣的時間分別的要招標為什麼獨獨海軍他要採取限制性招標這個是一個部分另外我也接獲投訴他寫得非常非常清楚\n\n02:03.473 --> 02:03.794\n說我們海軍採購是一萬兩千個\n\n02:09.827 --> 02:37.512\n那這裡採貢因為這個都已經是你們甚至都在媒體都報導是TB520那麼TB520呢他說一般的預轉時間是36小時他覺得很奇怪一般我們不說我們的救難時間是72小時黃金72小時那怎麼我們這個只有36小時因為現在市面上事實上是有這個時間更多的\n\n02:38.852 --> 02:53.721\n另外更重要的是,你可以看到在右邊的是我們採購的TB520,他在他的官網上,他的採購的價格,跟我們事實上呢,跟我們的實際的採購價格,價格差了。\n\n02:57.059 --> 03:22.085\n他都是美金啦他就是用美金差了大概六七千塊錢差六七千塊因為這個TB520他不是軍規他在網站上可以看到他根本是一般商用性的那所以在網站上價格比我們如果我們是採購一萬兩千個這個價格呢顯然我們是比他官網的價格多很多\n\n03:23.311 --> 03:51.658\n所以這樣子整個的採購的金額變成是多了六七千萬所以我在這邊因為我的質詢時間非常有限我想請部長能夠到時候可以問問包含陸軍空軍你們是怎麼採購的為什麼你們都公開招標我認為陸軍空軍的程序比較正常那海軍這個招標是怎麼回事\n\n03:53.619 --> 04:12.937\n因為很多這個招標相關的他都已經事實上媒體都有在相關的報導那當然數量的部分你們沒有對外很詳細的說明大概是一萬多個那我接獲爆料裡面寫的非常詳細他說是採購一萬兩千個就非常質疑這次採購為什麼\n\n04:14.679 --> 04:34.723\n海軍跟其他空軍陸軍不一樣所以部長在這邊能不能承諾我你回去可以找他們來談如果這裡面確實有這個招標有問題甚至上有人模不章的問題那麼該調查就調查該處理就處理可不可以\n\n04:35.402 --> 04:55.657\n報告委員報告,首先很感激委員提供這些資料,事實上國防部在做任何事情之前,累計以往經驗,得到一個答案,一切一定要按照依法程作為來做一個程序推動,這裡可能有原因,我也不是很清楚狀況。其實事實上我覺得海陸空如果都要的話根本不是不可以一起採購的。\n\n04:56.257 --> 04:57.558\n對,搞清楚之後,但是重點是絕對不要護短\n\n05:19.058 --> 05:42.588\n該處理就處理,該改進就改進,好不好?不要讓人家覺得很有鬼,不然這個一定是你們內部傳出來的,裡面寫得非常非常的詳細我跟你們報告的話,我多講一句話,我們國防部現在任何一個案子只要有違法的話我第一個動作,送法辦,其他程序照走,送法辦原因在哪裡?在我們國防部不吃案\n\n05:43.268 --> 05:43.408\n邱國正報告業務概況\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":2.331,"text":"請那個邱部長來 部長請王委員好好 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