{"id":149546,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149546","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe09cc0107abf97f6f3ebf0b3ad7e91c05f8ba9b0039caa7a604e63636352635c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"11:41:08 - 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\"end\": 200.547, \"text\": \"報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 181.426, \"end\": 181.566, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 181.566, \"end\": 182.447, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 182.447, \"end\": 182.607, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 182.607, \"end\": 184.529, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 184.529, \"end\": 184.669, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 184.669, \"end\": 184.849, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 184.849, \"end\": 184.95, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 184.95, \"end\": 185.27, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 185.27, \"end\": 185.33, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 185.33, \"end\": 185.73, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, 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00:00:55,701\n那我聽了這個說法我當然有一點困惑我就請教部長就你知道在2015當時馬政府大概2016一月然後馬政府進入cancel以後這個在那個上半年520之前馬政府有沒有調整電價有有其實有\n\n4\n00:00:58,263 --> 00:01:25,875\n其實有調整電價嘛對不對那當然那時候我記得他應該是調降了非常大的比例嘛所以那時候引起社會也很多的紛擾當時很多的專家學者也說你調降這麼大的比例其實是短、多、長、空因為大家都知道你這一次調的降幅這麼大接下來要陸陸續續再調上來的時候就會遭到社會很多的阻力所以這是為什麼當時有很多人會說那是\n\n5\n00:01:26,235 --> 00:01:34,907\n短多長空可能不利於長期能源政策的原因在這個地方那部長我想先請教就你知道台灣的電價其實我們是偏低還偏高\n\n6\n00:01:36,357 --> 00:01:57,036\n國際上?在國際上是偏低的偏低嘛齁那這個大家認知差不多那其實低電價當然我們看到是有一些優勢包括也許可以吸引外資進入台灣穩定民生物價但負面影響也是有的包括可能比較難形成節約的概念造成浪費或低效率的使用也包括國營電力公司入不敷出全民買單\n\n7\n00:01:58,237 --> 00:02:05,609\n甚至是全民實質補貼用電大戶也包括這段時間在近鄰的情境裡面國際中都在講這個\n\n8\n00:02:07,717 --> 00:02:36,316\n水電的補貼會難以形成健康的綠色經濟市場這其實都是可能帶來的負面的效果但我們大概知道現在因為沃爾戰爭的原因看起來這一波我們確實有很大要這個調整電價尤其可能是調漲的壓力但我覺得現在因應這個降低衝擊我認為最實質的做法恐怕是政府應該大力的來協助用戶以最有效率跟聰明的方式用電部長你同不同意?\n\n9\n00:02:36,656 --> 00:02:59,274\n我完全同意這個在國際能源總署其實也是提到節能其實是第一個要去優先考慮的項目部長那如果針對這部分我就想來跟部長請教我們看到其實政府花了很大的力氣來去投資所謂的智慧電表那智慧電表目前的進度如何\n\n10\n00:03:01,426 --> 00:03:20,547\n報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。\n\n11\n00:03:21,638 --> 00:03:37,107\n所以我要問現在我要問台電的事情是我們現在裝了這麼多年底可能就確實會做到300萬具那我們之後的應用計畫是什麼報告委員我們一直很希望就是全民都能夠有效率的用電\n\n12\n00:03:38,027 --> 00:03:38,227\n我現在問的是說﹖\n\n13\n00:03:55,396 --> 00:04:18,422\n智慧電表裝上去以後你希望大家怎麼來應用這個智慧電表你要應用它才會有節電的效果才會有效率的能源管理那我們後續裝上去以後的應用計畫是什麼我們已經開發了一些APP所以只要用戶已經裝成改成APP之後我們在電費單上面都會通知他你已經改成新的智慧電表了\n\n14\n00:04:19,282 --> 00:04:46,908\n我們台電有APP可以使用歡迎你們來安裝這個APP總經理你講得很好我們現在假設裝了281萬具你知道現在我們使用APP的使用人數到底多少嗎?高壓已經全部都使用而且用得非常好我現在說低壓低壓的話已經有160萬戶已經使用了那個總經理我知道數字不是這樣我知道現在在使用APP的數字恐怕不到20萬戶\n\n15\n00:04:49,502 --> 00:05:17,309\n也就是我們有很多的住戶他裝了智慧電表可是他並沒有在使用甚至我有很多的朋友他家裡被裝了也許在他地下室換了台電去換了但他根本就不知道自己被換了所以我們有很多是換了裝了但他根本就不知道他還是用原本的能源使用習慣我得知的APP的使用的數字大概不到20萬\n\n16\n00:05:19,048 --> 00:05:30,920\n算下來其實目前如果用281萬當作分母的話恐怕不到10%的人真正在使用這個智慧電表跟相關的應用程式阿\n\n17\n00:05:32,542 --> 00:05:52,667\n總計你覺得這個數字你滿意嗎我當然不滿意我希望能夠做得更好那更好的原因就是說在誘因方面如何讓民眾更有感那其實我們知道價格訊號事實上在國外是非常好的所以我花了一些時間我也跟台電這邊來詢問那我們裝完智慧電板以後後續的應用有沒有應用計畫\n\n18\n00:05:54,187 --> 00:06:07,530\n台電有沒有提一個應用計畫或者是有沒有推廣計畫可是我聽到的都是只有我們會設計APP可是APP的使用率卻又這麼低不到10%這變成是我們有很多投資的智慧電表可能是亮在那邊的喔\n\n19\n00:06:10,112 --> 00:06:29,125\n目前我們已經期望跟第三方合作第三方也正在做這方面就是他們在裝了那個第二條通訊路徑跟家裡的家電可以結合那麼可以參加我們的訓練總之我覺得我們其實應該要定一個假設APP是使用跟應用的關鍵的話到底我們希望APP的成長的速度跟進程要多少\n\n20\n00:06:29,505 --> 00:06:29,785\n接下來我要問\n\n21\n00:06:58,322 --> 00:07:22,489\n電價的調漲當然我們接下來會最在意的事情其實會對於這些中低收入戶或者是社會底層的影響其實在氣候法裡面其實有46條公正轉型的方案裡面只有說每個主管的機關目的世界主管機關應該針對主管的業務提出公正轉型行動方案來送公正轉型的主辦機關也就是國發會\n\n22\n00:07:23,869 --> 00:07:37,237\n照理來說現在假設我們要漲電價我們要提出因應衝擊的方案這是不是就公正轉型的概念是那這如果這是公正轉型的概念我們有沒有提出公正轉型的行動方案我說經濟部的部分\n\n23\n00:07:41,104 --> 00:07:47,847\n報告委員這一個部分是這樣就是說我們這一次是局部的一個議題就是那個但是你提到就是說公正轉型的部分我們都有參加國發會的委員會議那這一個部分我們會一併來做調整但是我們在過去兩年的電價調整方案事實上都有把這樣子的一些價值考慮在裡面我想\n\n24\n00:08:03,693 --> 00:08:27,621\n這個部分社會上應該都知道我們都有考慮過這些相關的那個董事長我知道我們當然在調整的方案上有考慮但是現在大家會期待說我們可能需要更多的配套來去協助我們的底層或弱勢來去因應這個事情其實可能要有一個公正轉型的方案不一定是完整的經濟部全部的方案但針對這個部分有一個這樣的方案可以提出來至少對於我們的經濟弱勢或者是社會底層\n\n25\n00:08:28,181 --> 00:08:48,432\n他知道我是被政府給協助跟支持的部分除了在我們調整的方案以外我覺得這部分是經濟部應該優先考慮的事情可以嗎?了解我知道委員提的就是包括協助做事、節電等等這些都是可以做的具體方案是好這部分就請經濟部再帶回去我覺得現在在討論的時候我覺得要讓大家有信心是政府會支持的\n\n26\n00:08:48,592 --> 00:08:48,812\n謝謝委員提到\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t589\t請王部長\n21445\t33761\t委員好是不然我今天一早當然我也聽了各委員的質詢那我聽到大家有一個說法說尤其是國民黨的委員講到說這個在看守內閣期間這個不該漲電價\n38547\t55701\t那我聽了這個說法我當然有一點困惑我就請教部長就你知道在2015當時馬政府大概2016一月然後馬政府進入cancel以後這個在那個上半年520之前馬政府有沒有調整電價有有其實有\n58263\t85875\t其實有調整電價嘛對不對那當然那時候我記得他應該是調降了非常大的比例嘛所以那時候引起社會也很多的紛擾當時很多的專家學者也說你調降這麼大的比例其實是短、多、長、空因為大家都知道你這一次調的降幅這麼大接下來要陸陸續續再調上來的時候就會遭到社會很多的阻力所以這是為什麼當時有很多人會說那是\n86235\t94907\t短多長空可能不利於長期能源政策的原因在這個地方那部長我想先請教就你知道台灣的電價其實我們是偏低還偏高\n96357\t117036\t國際上?在國際上是偏低的偏低嘛齁那這個大家認知差不多那其實低電價當然我們看到是有一些優勢包括也許可以吸引外資進入台灣穩定民生物價但負面影響也是有的包括可能比較難形成節約的概念造成浪費或低效率的使用也包括國營電力公司入不敷出全民買單\n118237\t125609\t甚至是全民實質補貼用電大戶也包括這段時間在近鄰的情境裡面國際中都在講這個\n127717\t156316\t水電的補貼會難以形成健康的綠色經濟市場這其實都是可能帶來的負面的效果但我們大概知道現在因為沃爾戰爭的原因看起來這一波我們確實有很大要這個調整電價尤其可能是調漲的壓力但我覺得現在因應這個降低衝擊我認為最實質的做法恐怕是政府應該大力的來協助用戶以最有效率跟聰明的方式用電部長你同不同意?\n156656\t179274\t我完全同意 這個在國際能源總署其實也是提到節能其實是第一個要去優先考慮的項目部長那如果針對這部分我就想來跟部長請教我們看到其實政府花了很大的力氣來去投資所謂的智慧電表那智慧電表目前的進度如何\n181426\t200547\t報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。\n201638\t217107\t所以我要問現在我要問台電的事情是我們現在裝了這麼多年底可能就確實會做到300萬具那我們之後的應用計畫是什麼報告委員我們一直很希望就是全民都能夠有效率的用電\n218027\t218227\t我現在問的是說﹖\n235396\t258422\t智慧電表裝上去以後你希望大家怎麼來應用這個智慧電表你要應用它才會有節電的效果才會有效率的能源管理那我們後續裝上去以後的應用計畫是什麼我們已經開發了一些APP所以只要用戶已經裝成改成APP之後我們在電費單上面都會通知他你已經改成新的智慧電表了\n259282\t286908\t我們台電有APP可以使用歡迎你們來安裝這個APP總經理你講得很好我們現在假設裝了281萬具你知道現在我們使用APP的使用人數到底多少嗎?高壓已經全部都使用而且用得非常好我現在說低壓低壓的話已經有160萬戶已經使用了那個總經理我知道數字不是這樣我知道現在在使用APP的數字恐怕不到20萬戶\n289502\t317309\t也就是我們有很多的住戶他裝了智慧電表可是他並沒有在使用甚至我有很多的朋友他家裡被裝了也許在他地下室換了台電去換了但他根本就不知道自己被換了所以我們有很多是換了裝了但他根本就不知道他還是用原本的能源使用習慣我得知的APP的使用的數字大概不到20萬\n319048\t330920\t算下來其實目前如果用281萬當作分母的話恐怕不到10%的人真正在使用這個智慧電表跟相關的應用程式阿\n332542\t352667\t總計你覺得這個數字你滿意嗎我當然不滿意我希望能夠做得更好那更好的原因就是說在誘因方面如何讓民眾更有感那其實我們知道價格訊號事實上在國外是非常好的所以我花了一些時間我也跟台電這邊來詢問那我們裝完智慧電板以後後續的應用有沒有應用計畫\n354187\t367530\t台電有沒有提一個應用計畫或者是有沒有推廣計畫可是我聽到的都是只有我們會設計APP可是APP的使用率卻又這麼低不到10%這變成是我們有很多投資的智慧電表可能是亮在那邊的喔\n370112\t389125\t目前我們已經期望跟第三方合作第三方也正在做這方面就是他們在裝了那個第二條通訊路徑跟家裡的家電可以結合那麼可以參加我們的訓練總之我覺得我們其實應該要定一個假設APP是使用跟應用的關鍵的話到底我們希望APP的成長的速度跟進程要多少\n389505\t389785\t接下來我要問\n418322\t442489\t電價的調漲當然我們接下來會最在意的事情其實會對於這些中低收入戶或者是社會底層的影響其實在氣候法裡面其實有46條公正轉型的方案裡面只有說每個主管的機關目的世界主管機關應該針對主管的業務提出公正轉型行動方案來送公正轉型的主辦機關也就是國發會\n443869\t457237\t照理來說現在假設我們要漲電價我們要提出因應衝擊的方案這是不是就公正轉型的概念是那這如果這是公正轉型的概念我們有沒有提出公正轉型的行動方案我說經濟部的部分\n461104\t467847\t報告委員這一個部分是這樣就是說我們這一次是局部的一個議題就是那個但是你提到就是說公正轉型的部分我們都有參加國發會的委員會議那這一個部分我們會一併來做調整但是我們在過去兩年的電價調整方案事實上都有把這樣子的一些價值考慮在裡面我想\n483693\t507621\t這個部分社會上應該都知道我們都有考慮過這些相關的那個董事長我知道我們當然在調整的方案上有考慮但是現在大家會期待說我們可能需要更多的配套來去協助我們的底層或弱勢來去因應這個事情其實可能要有一個公正轉型的方案不一定是完整的經濟部全部的方案但針對這個部分有一個這樣的方案可以提出來至少對於我們的經濟弱勢或者是社會底層\n508181\t528432\t他知道我是被政府給協助跟支持的部分除了在我們調整的方案以外我覺得這部分是經濟部應該優先考慮的事情可以嗎?了解 我知道委員提的就是包括協助做事、節電等等這些都是可以做的具體方案是好 這部分就請經濟部再帶回去我覺得現在在討論的時候我覺得要讓大家有信心是政府會支持的\n528592\t528812\t謝謝委員提到\n","txt":"請王部長\n委員好是不然我今天一早當然我也聽了各委員的質詢那我聽到大家有一個說法說尤其是國民黨的委員講到說這個在看守內閣期間這個不該漲電價\n那我聽了這個說法我當然有一點困惑我就請教部長就你知道在2015當時馬政府大概2016一月然後馬政府進入cancel以後這個在那個上半年520之前馬政府有沒有調整電價有有其實有\n其實有調整電價嘛對不對那當然那時候我記得他應該是調降了非常大的比例嘛所以那時候引起社會也很多的紛擾當時很多的專家學者也說你調降這麼大的比例其實是短、多、長、空因為大家都知道你這一次調的降幅這麼大接下來要陸陸續續再調上來的時候就會遭到社會很多的阻力所以這是為什麼當時有很多人會說那是\n短多長空可能不利於長期能源政策的原因在這個地方那部長我想先請教就你知道台灣的電價其實我們是偏低還偏高\n國際上?在國際上是偏低的偏低嘛齁那這個大家認知差不多那其實低電價當然我們看到是有一些優勢包括也許可以吸引外資進入台灣穩定民生物價但負面影響也是有的包括可能比較難形成節約的概念造成浪費或低效率的使用也包括國營電力公司入不敷出全民買單\n甚至是全民實質補貼用電大戶也包括這段時間在近鄰的情境裡面國際中都在講這個\n水電的補貼會難以形成健康的綠色經濟市場這其實都是可能帶來的負面的效果但我們大概知道現在因為沃爾戰爭的原因看起來這一波我們確實有很大要這個調整電價尤其可能是調漲的壓力但我覺得現在因應這個降低衝擊我認為最實質的做法恐怕是政府應該大力的來協助用戶以最有效率跟聰明的方式用電部長你同不同意?\n我完全同意 這個在國際能源總署其實也是提到節能其實是第一個要去優先考慮的項目部長那如果針對這部分我就想來跟部長請教我們看到其實政府花了很大的力氣來去投資所謂的智慧電表那智慧電表目前的進度如何\n報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。\n所以我要問現在我要問台電的事情是我們現在裝了這麼多年底可能就確實會做到300萬具那我們之後的應用計畫是什麼報告委員我們一直很希望就是全民都能夠有效率的用電\n我現在問的是說﹖\n智慧電表裝上去以後你希望大家怎麼來應用這個智慧電表你要應用它才會有節電的效果才會有效率的能源管理那我們後續裝上去以後的應用計畫是什麼我們已經開發了一些APP所以只要用戶已經裝成改成APP之後我們在電費單上面都會通知他你已經改成新的智慧電表了\n我們台電有APP可以使用歡迎你們來安裝這個APP總經理你講得很好我們現在假設裝了281萬具你知道現在我們使用APP的使用人數到底多少嗎?高壓已經全部都使用而且用得非常好我現在說低壓低壓的話已經有160萬戶已經使用了那個總經理我知道數字不是這樣我知道現在在使用APP的數字恐怕不到20萬戶\n也就是我們有很多的住戶他裝了智慧電表可是他並沒有在使用甚至我有很多的朋友他家裡被裝了也許在他地下室換了台電去換了但他根本就不知道自己被換了所以我們有很多是換了裝了但他根本就不知道他還是用原本的能源使用習慣我得知的APP的使用的數字大概不到20萬\n算下來其實目前如果用281萬當作分母的話恐怕不到10%的人真正在使用這個智慧電表跟相關的應用程式阿\n總計你覺得這個數字你滿意嗎我當然不滿意我希望能夠做得更好那更好的原因就是說在誘因方面如何讓民眾更有感那其實我們知道價格訊號事實上在國外是非常好的所以我花了一些時間我也跟台電這邊來詢問那我們裝完智慧電板以後後續的應用有沒有應用計畫\n台電有沒有提一個應用計畫或者是有沒有推廣計畫可是我聽到的都是只有我們會設計APP可是APP的使用率卻又這麼低不到10%這變成是我們有很多投資的智慧電表可能是亮在那邊的喔\n目前我們已經期望跟第三方合作第三方也正在做這方面就是他們在裝了那個第二條通訊路徑跟家裡的家電可以結合那麼可以參加我們的訓練總之我覺得我們其實應該要定一個假設APP是使用跟應用的關鍵的話到底我們希望APP的成長的速度跟進程要多少\n接下來我要問\n電價的調漲當然我們接下來會最在意的事情其實會對於這些中低收入戶或者是社會底層的影響其實在氣候法裡面其實有46條公正轉型的方案裡面只有說每個主管的機關目的世界主管機關應該針對主管的業務提出公正轉型行動方案來送公正轉型的主辦機關也就是國發會\n照理來說現在假設我們要漲電價我們要提出因應衝擊的方案這是不是就公正轉型的概念是那這如果這是公正轉型的概念我們有沒有提出公正轉型的行動方案我說經濟部的部分\n報告委員這一個部分是這樣就是說我們這一次是局部的一個議題就是那個但是你提到就是說公正轉型的部分我們都有參加國發會的委員會議那這一個部分我們會一併來做調整但是我們在過去兩年的電價調整方案事實上都有把這樣子的一些價值考慮在裡面我想\n這個部分社會上應該都知道我們都有考慮過這些相關的那個董事長我知道我們當然在調整的方案上有考慮但是現在大家會期待說我們可能需要更多的配套來去協助我們的底層或弱勢來去因應這個事情其實可能要有一個公正轉型的方案不一定是完整的經濟部全部的方案但針對這個部分有一個這樣的方案可以提出來至少對於我們的經濟弱勢或者是社會底層\n他知道我是被政府給協助跟支持的部分除了在我們調整的方案以外我覺得這部分是經濟部應該優先考慮的事情可以嗎?了解 我知道委員提的就是包括協助做事、節電等等這些都是可以做的具體方案是好 這部分就請經濟部再帶回去我覺得現在在討論的時候我覺得要讓大家有信心是政府會支持的\n謝謝委員提到\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:00.589\n請王部長\n\n00:21.445 --> 00:33.761\n委員好是不然我今天一早當然我也聽了各委員的質詢那我聽到大家有一個說法說尤其是國民黨的委員講到說這個在看守內閣期間這個不該漲電價\n\n00:38.547 --> 00:55.701\n那我聽了這個說法我當然有一點困惑我就請教部長就你知道在2015當時馬政府大概2016一月然後馬政府進入cancel以後這個在那個上半年520之前馬政府有沒有調整電價有有其實有\n\n00:58.263 --> 01:25.875\n其實有調整電價嘛對不對那當然那時候我記得他應該是調降了非常大的比例嘛所以那時候引起社會也很多的紛擾當時很多的專家學者也說你調降這麼大的比例其實是短、多、長、空因為大家都知道你這一次調的降幅這麼大接下來要陸陸續續再調上來的時候就會遭到社會很多的阻力所以這是為什麼當時有很多人會說那是\n\n01:26.235 --> 01:34.907\n短多長空可能不利於長期能源政策的原因在這個地方那部長我想先請教就你知道台灣的電價其實我們是偏低還偏高\n\n01:36.357 --> 01:57.036\n國際上?在國際上是偏低的偏低嘛齁那這個大家認知差不多那其實低電價當然我們看到是有一些優勢包括也許可以吸引外資進入台灣穩定民生物價但負面影響也是有的包括可能比較難形成節約的概念造成浪費或低效率的使用也包括國營電力公司入不敷出全民買單\n\n01:58.237 --> 02:05.609\n甚至是全民實質補貼用電大戶也包括這段時間在近鄰的情境裡面國際中都在講這個\n\n02:07.717 --> 02:36.316\n水電的補貼會難以形成健康的綠色經濟市場這其實都是可能帶來的負面的效果但我們大概知道現在因為沃爾戰爭的原因看起來這一波我們確實有很大要這個調整電價尤其可能是調漲的壓力但我覺得現在因應這個降低衝擊我認為最實質的做法恐怕是政府應該大力的來協助用戶以最有效率跟聰明的方式用電部長你同不同意?\n\n02:36.656 --> 02:59.274\n我完全同意這個在國際能源總署其實也是提到節能其實是第一個要去優先考慮的項目部長那如果針對這部分我就想來跟部長請教我們看到其實政府花了很大的力氣來去投資所謂的智慧電表那智慧電表目前的進度如何\n\n03:01.426 --> 03:20.547\n報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。\n\n03:21.638 --> 03:37.107\n所以我要問現在我要問台電的事情是我們現在裝了這麼多年底可能就確實會做到300萬具那我們之後的應用計畫是什麼報告委員我們一直很希望就是全民都能夠有效率的用電\n\n03:38.027 --> 03:38.227\n我現在問的是說﹖\n\n03:55.396 --> 04:18.422\n智慧電表裝上去以後你希望大家怎麼來應用這個智慧電表你要應用它才會有節電的效果才會有效率的能源管理那我們後續裝上去以後的應用計畫是什麼我們已經開發了一些APP所以只要用戶已經裝成改成APP之後我們在電費單上面都會通知他你已經改成新的智慧電表了\n\n04:19.282 --> 04:46.908\n我們台電有APP可以使用歡迎你們來安裝這個APP總經理你講得很好我們現在假設裝了281萬具你知道現在我們使用APP的使用人數到底多少嗎?高壓已經全部都使用而且用得非常好我現在說低壓低壓的話已經有160萬戶已經使用了那個總經理我知道數字不是這樣我知道現在在使用APP的數字恐怕不到20萬戶\n\n04:49.502 --> 05:17.309\n也就是我們有很多的住戶他裝了智慧電表可是他並沒有在使用甚至我有很多的朋友他家裡被裝了也許在他地下室換了台電去換了但他根本就不知道自己被換了所以我們有很多是換了裝了但他根本就不知道他還是用原本的能源使用習慣我得知的APP的使用的數字大概不到20萬\n\n05:19.048 --> 05:30.920\n算下來其實目前如果用281萬當作分母的話恐怕不到10%的人真正在使用這個智慧電表跟相關的應用程式阿\n\n05:32.542 --> 05:52.667\n總計你覺得這個數字你滿意嗎我當然不滿意我希望能夠做得更好那更好的原因就是說在誘因方面如何讓民眾更有感那其實我們知道價格訊號事實上在國外是非常好的所以我花了一些時間我也跟台電這邊來詢問那我們裝完智慧電板以後後續的應用有沒有應用計畫\n\n05:54.187 --> 06:07.530\n台電有沒有提一個應用計畫或者是有沒有推廣計畫可是我聽到的都是只有我們會設計APP可是APP的使用率卻又這麼低不到10%這變成是我們有很多投資的智慧電表可能是亮在那邊的喔\n\n06:10.112 --> 06:29.125\n目前我們已經期望跟第三方合作第三方也正在做這方面就是他們在裝了那個第二條通訊路徑跟家裡的家電可以結合那麼可以參加我們的訓練總之我覺得我們其實應該要定一個假設APP是使用跟應用的關鍵的話到底我們希望APP的成長的速度跟進程要多少\n\n06:29.505 --> 06:29.785\n接下來我要問\n\n06:58.322 --> 07:22.489\n電價的調漲當然我們接下來會最在意的事情其實會對於這些中低收入戶或者是社會底層的影響其實在氣候法裡面其實有46條公正轉型的方案裡面只有說每個主管的機關目的世界主管機關應該針對主管的業務提出公正轉型行動方案來送公正轉型的主辦機關也就是國發會\n\n07:23.869 --> 07:37.237\n照理來說現在假設我們要漲電價我們要提出因應衝擊的方案這是不是就公正轉型的概念是那這如果這是公正轉型的概念我們有沒有提出公正轉型的行動方案我說經濟部的部分\n\n07:41.104 --> 07:47.847\n報告委員這一個部分是這樣就是說我們這一次是局部的一個議題就是那個但是你提到就是說公正轉型的部分我們都有參加國發會的委員會議那這一個部分我們會一併來做調整但是我們在過去兩年的電價調整方案事實上都有把這樣子的一些價值考慮在裡面我想\n\n08:03.693 --> 08:27.621\n這個部分社會上應該都知道我們都有考慮過這些相關的那個董事長我知道我們當然在調整的方案上有考慮但是現在大家會期待說我們可能需要更多的配套來去協助我們的底層或弱勢來去因應這個事情其實可能要有一個公正轉型的方案不一定是完整的經濟部全部的方案但針對這個部分有一個這樣的方案可以提出來至少對於我們的經濟弱勢或者是社會底層\n\n08:28.181 --> 08:48.432\n他知道我是被政府給協助跟支持的部分除了在我們調整的方案以外我覺得這部分是經濟部應該優先考慮的事情可以嗎?了解我知道委員提的就是包括協助做事、節電等等這些都是可以做的具體方案是好這部分就請經濟部再帶回去我覺得現在在討論的時候我覺得要讓大家有信心是政府會支持的\n\n08:48.592 --> 08:48.812\n謝謝委員提到\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":0.589,"text":"請王部長"},{"start":21.445,"end":33.761,"text":"委員好是不然我今天一早當然我也聽了各委員的質詢那我聽到大家有一個說法說尤其是國民黨的委員講到說這個在看守內閣期間這個不該漲電價"},{"start":38.547,"end":55.701,"text":"那我聽了這個說法我當然有一點困惑我就請教部長就你知道在2015當時馬政府大概2016一月然後馬政府進入cancel以後這個在那個上半年520之前馬政府有沒有調整電價有有其實有"},{"start":58.263,"end":85.875,"text":"其實有調整電價嘛對不對那當然那時候我記得他應該是調降了非常大的比例嘛所以那時候引起社會也很多的紛擾當時很多的專家學者也說你調降這麼大的比例其實是短、多、長、空因為大家都知道你這一次調的降幅這麼大接下來要陸陸續續再調上來的時候就會遭到社會很多的阻力所以這是為什麼當時有很多人會說那是"},{"start":86.235,"end":94.907,"text":"短多長空可能不利於長期能源政策的原因在這個地方那部長我想先請教就你知道台灣的電價其實我們是偏低還偏高"},{"start":96.357,"end":117.036,"text":"國際上?在國際上是偏低的偏低嘛齁那這個大家認知差不多那其實低電價當然我們看到是有一些優勢包括也許可以吸引外資進入台灣穩定民生物價但負面影響也是有的包括可能比較難形成節約的概念造成浪費或低效率的使用也包括國營電力公司入不敷出全民買單"},{"start":118.237,"end":125.609,"text":"甚至是全民實質補貼用電大戶也包括這段時間在近鄰的情境裡面國際中都在講這個"},{"start":127.717,"end":156.316,"text":"水電的補貼會難以形成健康的綠色經濟市場這其實都是可能帶來的負面的效果但我們大概知道現在因為沃爾戰爭的原因看起來這一波我們確實有很大要這個調整電價尤其可能是調漲的壓力但我覺得現在因應這個降低衝擊我認為最實質的做法恐怕是政府應該大力的來協助用戶以最有效率跟聰明的方式用電部長你同不同意?"},{"start":156.656,"end":179.274,"text":"我完全同意 這個在國際能源總署其實也是提到節能其實是第一個要去優先考慮的項目部長那如果針對這部分我就想來跟部長請教我們看到其實政府花了很大的力氣來去投資所謂的智慧電表那智慧電表目前的進度如何"},{"start":181.426,"end":200.547,"text":"報告委員,今年行政院給台電的目標是300萬具,目前已經達到280幾萬具,所以大概年中的時候就會完成300萬具的目標。但是總經理,智慧電表並不是裝了就會節電,對不對?是的。智慧電表要拿來用啊。"},{"start":201.638,"end":217.107,"text":"所以我要問現在我要問台電的事情是我們現在裝了這麼多年底可能就確實會做到300萬具那我們之後的應用計畫是什麼報告委員我們一直很希望就是全民都能夠有效率的用電"},{"start":218.027,"end":218.227,"text":"我現在問的是說﹖"},{"start":235.396,"end":258.422,"text":"智慧電表裝上去以後你希望大家怎麼來應用這個智慧電表你要應用它才會有節電的效果才會有效率的能源管理那我們後續裝上去以後的應用計畫是什麼我們已經開發了一些APP所以只要用戶已經裝成改成APP之後我們在電費單上面都會通知他你已經改成新的智慧電表了"},{"start":259.282,"end":286.908,"text":"我們台電有APP可以使用歡迎你們來安裝這個APP總經理你講得很好我們現在假設裝了281萬具你知道現在我們使用APP的使用人數到底多少嗎?高壓已經全部都使用而且用得非常好我現在說低壓低壓的話已經有160萬戶已經使用了那個總經理我知道數字不是這樣我知道現在在使用APP的數字恐怕不到20萬戶"},{"start":289.502,"end":317.309,"text":"也就是我們有很多的住戶他裝了智慧電表可是他並沒有在使用甚至我有很多的朋友他家裡被裝了也許在他地下室換了台電去換了但他根本就不知道自己被換了所以我們有很多是換了裝了但他根本就不知道他還是用原本的能源使用習慣我得知的APP的使用的數字大概不到20萬"},{"start":319.048,"end":330.92,"text":"算下來其實目前如果用281萬當作分母的話恐怕不到10%的人真正在使用這個智慧電表跟相關的應用程式阿"},{"start":332.542,"end":352.667,"text":"總計你覺得這個數字你滿意嗎我當然不滿意我希望能夠做得更好那更好的原因就是說在誘因方面如何讓民眾更有感那其實我們知道價格訊號事實上在國外是非常好的所以我花了一些時間我也跟台電這邊來詢問那我們裝完智慧電板以後後續的應用有沒有應用計畫"},{"start":354.187,"end":367.53,"text":"台電有沒有提一個應用計畫或者是有沒有推廣計畫可是我聽到的都是只有我們會設計APP可是APP的使用率卻又這麼低不到10%這變成是我們有很多投資的智慧電表可能是亮在那邊的喔"},{"start":370.112,"end":389.125,"text":"目前我們已經期望跟第三方合作第三方也正在做這方面就是他們在裝了那個第二條通訊路徑跟家裡的家電可以結合那麼可以參加我們的訓練總之我覺得我們其實應該要定一個假設APP是使用跟應用的關鍵的話到底我們希望APP的成長的速度跟進程要多少"},{"start":389.505,"end":389.785,"text":"接下來我要問"},{"start":418.322,"end":442.489,"text":"電價的調漲當然我們接下來會最在意的事情其實會對於這些中低收入戶或者是社會底層的影響其實在氣候法裡面其實有46條公正轉型的方案裡面只有說每個主管的機關目的世界主管機關應該針對主管的業務提出公正轉型行動方案來送公正轉型的主辦機關也就是國發會"},{"start":443.869,"end":457.237,"text":"照理來說現在假設我們要漲電價我們要提出因應衝擊的方案這是不是就公正轉型的概念是那這如果這是公正轉型的概念我們有沒有提出公正轉型的行動方案我說經濟部的部分"},{"start":461.104,"end":467.847,"text":"報告委員這一個部分是這樣就是說我們這一次是局部的一個議題就是那個但是你提到就是說公正轉型的部分我們都有參加國發會的委員會議那這一個部分我們會一併來做調整但是我們在過去兩年的電價調整方案事實上都有把這樣子的一些價值考慮在裡面我想"},{"start":483.693,"end":507.621,"text":"這個部分社會上應該都知道我們都有考慮過這些相關的那個董事長我知道我們當然在調整的方案上有考慮但是現在大家會期待說我們可能需要更多的配套來去協助我們的底層或弱勢來去因應這個事情其實可能要有一個公正轉型的方案不一定是完整的經濟部全部的方案但針對這個部分有一個這樣的方案可以提出來至少對於我們的經濟弱勢或者是社會底層"},{"start":508.181,"end":528.432,"text":"他知道我是被政府給協助跟支持的部分除了在我們調整的方案以外我覺得這部分是經濟部應該優先考慮的事情可以嗎?了解 我知道委員提的就是包括協助做事、節電等等這些都是可以做的具體方案是好 這部分就請經濟部再帶回去我覺得現在在討論的時候我覺得要讓大家有信心是政府會支持的"},{"start":528.592,"end":528.812,"text":"謝謝委員提到"}]}}}}