{"id":149572,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149572","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe54998e6c51e4b942f84c29b94b9165f0f8ba9b0039caa7a6e3a4a211d9ab1f3d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:36:07 - 11:47:32","影片長度":"00:11:25","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-2"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":685,"end_time":"2024-03-07T11:47:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T11:36:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":773,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時36分）主席好，有請財政部長。"],["主席：有請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。我提供一個表格，是2023年國內各家銀行的自結營收，我們可以看得到，我們的公股行庫的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的，但是我們也看到IMF國際貨幣基金組織有一個報告提到，各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融，甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放款，也比一般的銀行吃重，也就是說，擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系，對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成，都會有正面的助益。所以想請教部長，你是不是認同這一段話？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，我們公股銀行常常擔負著國家的政策任務。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長。星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢，當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境，在我國，私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃，但是有一個困境，也就是說，地主到銀行去貸款的時候會被拒絕，而且一般都是用市場鑑價，這類地卻被採取公告現值，實際上，這類地到了地下市場，價值其實滿高的，流通性也很高，我覺得我們銀行常常會落入一個刻板印象，銀行看了原基法的規定，看了山坡地保育利用條例的規定，認為這類地的流通性很低，所以他們會覺得，這類地作為擔保品，會讓他們承擔比較高的風險，所以承貸的意願很低。那怎麼辦呢？既然我們原住民到正規銀行求貸無門，就有很多都只能去找私人的當舖，結果也搞不清楚利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係，所以到最後都是他的不動產被拍賣，他的原保地被拍賣，然後用非常低的價格流落到市場去，這是一個惡性循環，也是導致原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境。我們長期以來也關心這個問題，我知道去年10月財政部國庫署有召開一個原保地貸款鑑價會議，我長期以來也都很關心，部長，對於原保地的鑑價，您怎麼看？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，因為原保地的承受人必須是原住民，承受的對象有受限制，所以銀行在提供貸款的時候，用原保地做擔保就會有一些困難，假設要實行抵押權的時候，這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到銀行，所以銀行在做原保地的抵押貸款的時候，確實有卻步。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這就是我們的困境。"],["莊部長翠雲：另外也跟委員報告，其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金，在這個基金裡面，有一筆基金是委託我們公股行庫在做貸款，這就是原民基金。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：原民會會做信保。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：但是依舊有所謂的擔保品。部長，我現在是問您說，原保地去做鑑價，您怎麼看？我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容。"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道，原保地的鑑價當然是因為幾個因素，第一個是流通性的問題，所以鑑價就會受到一些限制，金管會黃主委那一天也有回復委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，他給我的答復是很正向的。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，他也說會請銀行公會研究以原保地作為擔保品的可行性及如何鑑價，這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來就這個部分進行一些討論，如果金管會訂出一定的規則，那我們的公股行庫當然可以循這個規則來處理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝，部長，我多次在會議聽到的讓我有點傷心，因為可能會聽到公股行庫說一些話，例如：他們要為全民股東負責，他們要賺錢。但是為什麼我一開始會問您，就是公股行庫有社會責任也好，有使命也好，您也很認同嘛。所以我希望大家對於原保地鑑價，或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠接收原保地貸款這件事情，要有一個正面、積極的態度，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，我們會遵循金管會最後的規範。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那我就先拋磚引玉，我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方。第一個，我希望我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭承作，甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款。第二個，我當然希望財政部增加公股行庫承作的誘因，舉個例子來說，如果公股行庫願意承作原保地貸款，是不是可以在進行董事長、總經理的評鑑時給他們加分？又或是參考紐西蘭的做法，就是要去建立一個原保地的鑑價系統，因為其實原保地並沒有那麼不值錢，與特定的銀行合作，給予我們部落族人應有的金融服務，我希望部長帶回去研議，也能夠比照金管會所說的，希望可以遵照本席建議的方向，提出一些對策跟可行性，在兩個月內給予回復，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，謝謝委員，是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：為什麼我這樣講？因為我們原住民其實都沒有辦法貸款來蓋房子，所以有10萬就蓋一間廁所，再有個50萬，就幫孩子蓋一間新房，所以那個房子都長得古里古怪。像紐西蘭，他們也是跟我們一樣，因為毛利人的土地貸款其實也有一樣的困境，可是他們會去做一些專案，像我說的這塊土地，上面有24戶人家要蓋房子，政府就讓銀行幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫，我希望未來部長也可以鼓勵銀行來做這樣的專案，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝您。","我們也知道，我們的政策金融、永續金融、普惠金融，長期以來是受到重視的，我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入考量，像我們看到新聞說，第一金、兆豐金、臺企銀6月可能會有改選，我希望未來的人選是對的，人對了，事情就會對了，請都來考量，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：為什麼我很關心這個問題？其實2005年原住民基本法出來了之後，有一個部分是要做原住民自治，可是談了這麼多年，大家都不知道要怎麼做，所以我一直希望我們原住民的土地可以活化利用，未來最重要的就是要有財源的自主，所以我想要請教一下部長，因為我看到這一次院會質詢中，部長有允諾會來修財劃法，對嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，財劃法的部分，我們目前來徵詢意見，然後我們要凝聚共識。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：何時會送進立法院？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分當然要看共識什麼時候能夠把距離縮到最小，然後形成一個共識，在這個情況下來推動。委員知道，在101年曾經有一個財劃法的修正案送到立法院，但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見，最後也就沒有修法成功。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，對，因為這涉及到地方的……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：版本已經有了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，因為目前我們還要再討論。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我其實是要關心一個問題，在這25年當中，地制法已經做過15次修正，我們的兩都都已經變六都了，那我不知道部長您知不知道，我們直轄市合併之後，原住民鄉就變成原住民區，一度失去公法人地位，引起譁然，所以在4年之後的2014年馬上又修法改回，讓原民區具有部落公法人地位。我現在想要說，如果我們去做財劃法的修正，在擬訂草案期間，財政部有沒有跟關係機關開會？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們有跟相關機關開會，但是到直轄市和縣市，沒有……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，那部長您就知道我想問的，為什麼沒有跟鄉（鎮、市）公所開會？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，目前鄉（鎮、市）公所有198個，相當多，縣市應該去收集鄉（鎮、市）的意見，一起來向中央反映，這個很重要。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，很重要，但是縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要均一，土地面積要納入，可能就只討論他們關心的議題。為什麼我這樣講？我們的財劃法第八條有規定，財政部有一些工作是與鄉（鎮、市）有關的，所以財政部不是不能為，而是不作為。為什麼我這樣講？因為以縣市合併之後的原民區區公所來講，你應該很清楚，合併之前，他們的稅課收入是70%，可是合併之後整併，他們的稅課收入是0%。我要說的是，重點是2014年修地制法的時候寫得很清楚，直轄市區內山地鄉改制者是地方自治團體，準用鄉（鎮、市）的規定，而且當年第八十三條也有提到，原住民區的財政是自治的，所以未來財劃法修正，絕對需要跟合併之後的直轄市原民區公所來開會，聽取意見，部長，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：關於這個部分，原民區的意見也非常重要，我們可以來聽取。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為他們地位很特別，現在就變得很尷尬，也就是說，他們也沒有比以前更好，所以至少跟他們開會，聽取意見，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們聽取意見是應該的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那我下一次會繼續來問進度，我希望至少要針對這個部分去跟他們溝通。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。謝謝委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員的質詢。","接下來請謝衣鳯委員質詢。並提醒列委員，有5加1的時間。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","王世堅","王鴻薇","賴惠員","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","羅明才","陳玉珍"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公股代\n表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"149572","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149572","tool":"pyannote","id":"149572-pyannote"},"job_id":"ssr7LPU32rRObZtN","queued_at":"2024-06-02 07:50:03","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 07:51:22","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149572"},{"time":"2024-06-02 07:51:23","msg":"downloading 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\"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,692\n有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫\n\n2\n00:00:23,792 --> 00:00:48,724\n他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重\n\n3\n00:00:49,304 --> 00:01:03,151\n也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話\n\n4\n00:01:04,654 --> 00:01:31,932\n是的我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕\n\n5\n00:01:34,614 --> 00:01:49,032\n而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高\n\n6\n00:01:49,753 --> 00:01:49,893\n議員提出議案\n\n7\n00:02:06,414 --> 00:02:30,410\n他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承貸的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣\n\n8\n00:02:31,371 --> 00:02:59,586\n他的元寶地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境那我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看\n\n9\n00:03:02,183 --> 00:03:20,770\n剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行\n\n10\n00:03:23,571 --> 00:03:51,423\n所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容\n\n11\n00:03:52,523 --> 00:04:07,090\n我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有\n\n12\n00:04:08,531 --> 00:04:23,607\n對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長\n\n13\n00:04:26,169 --> 00:04:45,820\n因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛\n\n14\n00:04:47,202 --> 00:05:08,864\n所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎可以我們會追經常會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望\n\n15\n00:05:09,404 --> 00:05:32,140\n我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊\n\n16\n00:05:32,600 --> 00:06:01,733\n那又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個原保定的建價系統因為其實原保定並沒有那麼不值錢啦那與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務那我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議那也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向那提出一些對策跟可行性那兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎\n\n17\n00:06:02,253 --> 00:06:25,778\n可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是\n\n18\n00:06:26,198 --> 00:06:55,043\n他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量\n\n19\n00:06:55,943 --> 00:07:20,458\n我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎那為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做\n\n20\n00:07:21,238 --> 00:07:43,859\n所以我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來遵循意見然後我們要凝聚共識\n\n21\n00:07:44,980 --> 00:08:02,695\n那何時會送進立法院?這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功\n\n22\n00:08:03,295 --> 00:08:26,823\n所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中地制法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了\n\n23\n00:08:27,563 --> 00:08:50,675\n那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位那引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做\n\n24\n00:08:51,335 --> 00:09:10,771\n財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多\n\n25\n00:09:13,833 --> 00:09:33,962\n因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要軍醫那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為\n\n26\n00:09:36,343 --> 00:09:50,573\n我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為\n\n27\n00:09:51,914 --> 00:10:08,210\n那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民區公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是\n\n28\n00:10:08,931 --> 00:10:24,766\n重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條\n\n29\n00:10:27,708 --> 00:10:51,418\n這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的喔所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬\n\n30\n00:10:52,738 --> 00:10:53,639\n謝謝吳立華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間\n\n31\n00:11:23,943 --> 00:11:24,045\n不客氣。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2692\t有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫\n23792\t48724\t他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重\n49304\t63151\t也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話\n64654\t91932\t是的 我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好 謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕\n94614\t109032\t而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高\n109753\t109893\t議員提出議案\n126414\t150410\t他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承貸的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣\n151371\t179586\t他的元寶地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境那我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看\n182183\t200770\t剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行\n203571\t231423\t所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容\n232523\t247090\t我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有\n248531\t263607\t對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長\n266169\t285820\t因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛\n287202\t308864\t所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎可以我們會追經常會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望\n309404\t332140\t我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊\n332600\t361733\t那又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個原保定的建價系統因為其實原保定並沒有那麼不值錢啦那與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務那我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議那也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向那提出一些對策跟可行性那兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎\n362253\t385778\t可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是\n386198\t415043\t他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量\n415943\t440458\t我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎那為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做\n441238\t463859\t所以我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來遵循意見然後我們要凝聚共識\n464980\t482695\t那何時會送進立法院?這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功\n483295\t506823\t所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中地制法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了\n507563\t530675\t那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位那引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做\n531335\t550771\t財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多\n553833\t573962\t因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要軍醫那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為\n576343\t590573\t我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為\n591914\t608210\t那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民區公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是\n608931\t624766\t重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條\n627708\t651418\t這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的喔所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬\n652738\t653639\t謝謝吳立華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間\n683943\t684045\t不客氣。\n","txt":"有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫\n他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重\n也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話\n是的 我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好 謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕\n而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高\n議員提出議案\n他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承貸的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣\n他的元寶地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境那我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看\n剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行\n所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容\n我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有\n對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長\n因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛\n所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎可以我們會追經常會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望\n我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊\n那又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個原保定的建價系統因為其實原保定並沒有那麼不值錢啦那與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務那我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議那也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向那提出一些對策跟可行性那兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎\n可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是\n他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量\n我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎那為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做\n所以我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來遵循意見然後我們要凝聚共識\n那何時會送進立法院?這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功\n所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中地制法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了\n那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位那引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做\n財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多\n因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要軍醫那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為\n我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為\n那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民區公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是\n重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條\n這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的喔所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬\n謝謝吳立華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間\n不客氣。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.692\n有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫\n\n00:23.792 --> 00:48.724\n他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重\n\n00:49.304 --> 01:03.151\n也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話\n\n01:04.654 --> 01:31.932\n是的我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕\n\n01:34.614 --> 01:49.032\n而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高\n\n01:49.753 --> 01:49.893\n議員提出議案\n\n02:06.414 --> 02:30.410\n他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承貸的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣\n\n02:31.371 --> 02:59.586\n他的元寶地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境那我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看\n\n03:02.183 --> 03:20.770\n剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行\n\n03:23.571 --> 03:51.423\n所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容\n\n03:52.523 --> 04:07.090\n我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有\n\n04:08.531 --> 04:23.607\n對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長\n\n04:26.169 --> 04:45.820\n因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛\n\n04:47.202 --> 05:08.864\n所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎可以我們會追經常會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望\n\n05:09.404 --> 05:32.140\n我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊\n\n05:32.600 --> 06:01.733\n那又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個原保定的建價系統因為其實原保定並沒有那麼不值錢啦那與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務那我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議那也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向那提出一些對策跟可行性那兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎\n\n06:02.253 --> 06:25.778\n可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是\n\n06:26.198 --> 06:55.043\n他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量\n\n06:55.943 --> 07:20.458\n我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎那為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做\n\n07:21.238 --> 07:43.859\n所以我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來遵循意見然後我們要凝聚共識\n\n07:44.980 --> 08:02.695\n那何時會送進立法院?這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功\n\n08:03.295 --> 08:26.823\n所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中地制法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了\n\n08:27.563 --> 08:50.675\n那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位那引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做\n\n08:51.335 --> 09:10.771\n財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多\n\n09:13.833 --> 09:33.962\n因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要軍醫那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為\n\n09:36.343 --> 09:50.573\n我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為\n\n09:51.914 --> 10:08.210\n那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民區公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是\n\n10:08.931 --> 10:24.766\n重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條\n\n10:27.708 --> 10:51.418\n這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的喔所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬\n\n10:52.738 --> 10:53.639\n謝謝吳立華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間\n\n11:23.943 --> 11:24.045\n不客氣。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.692,"text":"有請財政部長有請莊部長委員好部長好我這邊有提供一個表格它是去年2023年國內各家銀行的字節營收我們可以看得到我們的公股、行庫"},{"start":23.792,"end":48.724,"text":"他的EPS每股盈餘的績效其實並不是最頂尖的但是我們也看到ANF國際貨幣基金組織他有一個報告他提到說各國的公共銀行不僅僅是在金融危機的時候協助穩定金融甚至是在疫情的時候承擔紓困放寒也比一般的銀行吃重"},{"start":49.304,"end":63.151,"text":"也就是說擁有一個穩定的公共銀行體系對於金融弱勢者的保障或公共政策的達成都會有正面的注意所以想請教部長你是不是認同這段話"},{"start":64.654,"end":91.932,"text":"是的 我們公股銀行常擔負著國家的一個政策任務好 謝謝部長星期一金管會也是來這邊備詢那當時我有特別去介紹原住民保留地的困境在我國私有的原保地大概有13萬公頃但是他有一個困境也就是說他到銀行要去承貸的時候他會發現被拒絕"},{"start":94.614,"end":109.032,"text":"而且一般都是用市場建價我們卻被採取公告限制那實際上他到了地下市場他的價值其實蠻高的流通性也很高"},{"start":109.753,"end":109.893,"text":"議員提出議案"},{"start":126.414,"end":150.41,"text":"他會覺得承擔比較高的風險所以承貸的意願很低那怎麼辦呢既然正規銀行我們求貸無門呢就很多都只能去找私人的當鋪結果呢也搞不清楚什麼叫做利率多少會產生怎麼樣的債務關係所以呢到最後其實最後都是他的不動產被拍賣"},{"start":151.371,"end":179.586,"text":"他的元寶地被拍賣然後用非常低的價格然後又流落到市場去這是一個惡性循環也是原住民沒有辦法做事業的一個困境那我們長期以來也關心這個問題我知道去年的10月財政部國庫署有召開一個元寶地貸款建價會議那我長期以來也都很關心那部長您覺得元寶地的建價您怎麼看"},{"start":182.183,"end":200.77,"text":"剛剛委員所說的是一個就是說因為原保地它的承受人必須是我們的原住民所以它的承受對象是有受限制所以銀行在提供貸款的時候這個原保地做擔保就會有一些困難假設他要實行抵押權的時候而這個原保地也沒有辦法移轉到我們的銀行"},{"start":203.571,"end":231.423,"text":"所以銀行在做這個元寶地的一個底壓貸款的時候確實有困境另外也跟委員報告其實原住民有一個綜合發展基金那在這個基金裡面他有筆基金是委託我們公股行庫有在做貸款人民會會做信保但是依舊有所謂的擔保品那我現在部長我是問您說元寶地來去做一個建架您怎麼看我不知道您知不知道這個會議內容"},{"start":232.523,"end":247.09,"text":"我知道那元寶地的建架當然是因為他第一個他的流通性的問題所以他的建架就會受到一些限制那我們就知道就是說我們金管會的黃主委那天也有回復我們委員有特別提到所以他也有"},{"start":248.531,"end":263.607,"text":"對,他也會說請銀行工會研究以元寶地作為單薄品的可行性以及如何的建架我想這個部分我們可以協同金管會一起來做這個部分的一些討論那我們的公股行會如果金管會訂出一定的規則那我們當然可以以循這個規則來做處理好,謝謝部長"},{"start":266.169,"end":285.82,"text":"因為我多次的會議其實我聽到的就是有點傷心啦因為可能會去談到一些話例如我們要為全民股東負責啊我們要賺錢啊但是為什麼我一開始會問您就是關於公股行庫的一個社會責任也好它的使命也好您也很認同嘛"},{"start":287.202,"end":308.864,"text":"所以我想這個部分我希望大家對於元寶地建架或者是未來我們的公股行庫能不能夠來接收元寶地貸款這件事情我希望要有個正面積極的態度可以嗎可以我們會追經常會最後的一個規範我希望財政部可以提出更好的解方第一個我希望"},{"start":309.404,"end":332.14,"text":"我們的八家公股銀行可以帶頭乘坐甚至是去制定一些政策性的專案貸款那第二個呢我當然希望要來財政部增加公股的誘因嘛舉個例子來說如果公股行庫他願意乘坐元寶地的時候是不是他的董事長總經理的評鑑可以給予加分啊"},{"start":332.6,"end":361.733,"text":"那又或者說參考紐西蘭的做法就是要去建立一個原保定的建價系統因為其實原保定並沒有那麼不值錢啦那與特定的銀行合作給予我們部落族人應有的一個金融服務那我是希望說部長您就帶回去研議那也能夠比照金管會所說的希望可以遵照本席的一個建議方向那提出一些對策跟可行性那兩個月內給予回覆可以嗎"},{"start":362.253,"end":385.778,"text":"可以謝謝委員是那為什麼我這樣講因為我們原住民我們其實都沒有辦法貸款然後蓋房子所以有10萬賺個10萬就蓋一片廁所再有個50萬幫孩子蓋一個新房所以那個房子都長得古裡古怪所以像紐西蘭他們也是跟我們一樣因為毛利的土地呢他們其實也跟我們一樣有困境可是"},{"start":386.198,"end":415.043,"text":"他們會去針對去做一些專案像這個土地上的這個就是有24戶人家要蓋房子那銀行政府呢就幫他們辦理一個專案的貸款計畫我希望未來我們部長都可以來做這樣的一個鼓勵好不好好好謝謝您吼那我們也知道我們政策金融永續金融普惠金融長期以來是受到重視的我希望未來原民友善這個部分也能夠列入一個考量"},{"start":415.943,"end":440.458,"text":"我們看到新聞說第一金、兆豐金、台企銀他們6月可能會有一個改選我希望未來的人選人對了事情就會對了都能夠來考量好嗎那為什麼我很關心這個問題其實2005年我們談到原住民基本法出來了之後他有一個要做原住民自治可是談了這麼多年大家都不知道要怎麼做"},{"start":441.238,"end":463.859,"text":"所以我一直希望說我們原住民的土地可以活化利用那未來最重要的就是要有財源的一個自主所以我想要請教一下部長因為我看到這一次的院會質詢部長有允諾就是應該會來修財化法對嗎對財化法的部分我們目前來遵循意見然後我們要凝聚共識"},{"start":464.98,"end":482.695,"text":"那何時會送進立法院?這個部分當然要看共識能夠什麼時候能夠把那個距離縮到最小然後有個共識情況下來推動各位委員知道在101年也曾經有一個財化法的修正送到立法院但是因為地方政府各有不同的意見最後也就沒有修法成功"},{"start":483.295,"end":506.823,"text":"所以意思就是說要有共識才有可能?對,因為這涉及到地方的...那版本已經有了嗎?沒有,因為目前還在共識我們還要再做討論我其實是要關心一個問題因為在這25年當中地制法已經做過15次的修正那我們的兩都都已經變六都了"},{"start":507.563,"end":530.675,"text":"那我不知道部長您知不知道我們直轄市合併之後原住民鄉就變成原住民區那一度失去公法人地位那引起嘩然所以在2014年4年之後馬上又修法改回讓原民區具有部落公法人地位那我現在想要說如果我們有去做"},{"start":531.335,"end":550.771,"text":"財化法的修正這個草案期間有沒有跟我們的這些關係機關開會財政部我們有跟相關機關開會但是到縣市直轄市縣市部長您就知道我想問的為什麼沒有跟鄉鎮市公所開會當然第一個目前鄉鎮市公所有198個相當多"},{"start":553.833,"end":573.962,"text":"因為其實縣市裡面應該他要去收集這個鄉鎮市的意見這個很重要然後一起來做中央的反應但是我相信你們跟縣市他們只會關心直轄市跟縣市政府要軍醫那土地面積要納入可能就討論他們關心的啦那為什麼我這樣講因為"},{"start":576.343,"end":590.573,"text":"我們的財化法其實有規定就是關於我們的財化法第8條財政部由於鄉鎮市它有一些是跟鄉鎮市有關的就是不是不能違是不作為"},{"start":591.914,"end":608.21,"text":"那為什麼我這樣講因為以我們這些合併之後的原民區公所來講你應該很清楚像他們合併之前稅客收入是70%可是呢之後整併稅客收入是0%那我要說的是"},{"start":608.931,"end":624.766,"text":"重點在我們2014年在修地治法的時候寫得很清楚直轄市的區山地鄉改治者他是地方自治團體準用鄉鎮市的規定而且財政部當年你看他的第83條"},{"start":627.708,"end":651.418,"text":"這邊也有提到他的原住民區的財政是自治的喔所以未來這個財化法修正絕對至少需要跟合併之後直轄市的原民區公所來開會聽起意見部長可以嗎我們這個部分我想原民區的也非常重要的意見也非常重要因為他們地位很特別地位很特別現在就變得很尷尬"},{"start":652.738,"end":653.639,"text":"謝謝吳立華委員的質詢接著我們請謝伊鳳委員質詢提醒列席委員有5加1的時間"},{"start":683.943,"end":684.045,"text":"不客氣。"}]}}}}