{"id":149587,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149587","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe21ccc1aba04af8b0afe835f95dd6e817f8ba9b0039caa7a663514bac7a6078665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"12:19:42 - 12:25:04","影片長度":"00:05:22","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長唐鳳列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請數位發展部部長唐鳳就「112年度出國預算辦理成效及113年度預計效益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-2"},"date":"2024-03-07","duration":322,"end_time":"2024-03-07T12:25:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-07T12:19:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":938,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（12時19分）請部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝主席、謝謝部長。昨天謝謝你來看我，所以我們也交換了很多意見，這兩天大家看到我們內政部的數位身分證，要賠償業者2億8,000萬元，算是補償吧！你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡？"],["唐部長鳳：就是大家對於政府過度蒐集個資之後，會不會做目的外利用，所謂的數位極權大家會很擔心。"],["黃委員珊珊：也就是說在相關的個人資料保護，跟政府的公權力平衡上，我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業，還有嚴格的監管控制。"],["唐部長鳳：就是一個獨立的個資會。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒有錯，接下來我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身分認證的道路對吧？"],["唐部長鳳：我們已經有自然人憑證、行動自然人憑證等等。"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，自然人憑證是其中一環，我特別想說我們在疫情期間，因為沒有數位身分證，只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身分證。"],["唐部長鳳：那是因為這是公共使用，但是如果是民間，比方說商務使用，健保卡是不能那樣用的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我的意思是說，接下來要推這個部分，一定要先建置好相關的配套，還有人民可能擔心、疑慮的時候，而不是先去招標，讓廠商做了可能將來做不到的東西，然後事後再來賠好幾億的高額學費吧！"],["唐部長鳳：同意委員的說法。"],["黃委員珊珊：我昨天有跟部長說，台北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下可以存活下來，大概就是因為配套相關的作法，你覺得這個部分將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：我想在跟委員交換意見的時候，我們也特別提到包含像主計人員、經費核銷等等是非常難突破的，確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法，來突破這種數位經費核銷等等。這部分我想是勢在必行，因為如果不這樣推的話，那就變成是一個民間的受補助單位，光是隔一個橋、不同的縣市、不同的浮貼方法非常麻煩。這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做，也可以用像行動自然人憑證等等的方式。"],["黃委員珊珊：反正就是說，臺灣其實應該是數位大國，再有數發部的建置，雖然你們成立不久，但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步。第一個，要有相關的數位身分認證、第二個，公部門應該以公帶私，引領臺灣走向數位轉型。尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文，這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市在做，但是臺灣感覺不應該有像現在那麼大的城鄉差距跟落後，麻煩部長這可能是你最重要的工作之一。","另外就是我昨天談到，剛剛我也在司法及法制委員會討論，詐騙已經多到幾乎每個人都被詐騙過，沒有真的被得逞，但是一定都接過電話。被詐騙的人為什麼會一直詐騙呢？因為你抓到的那些可能只是車手、只是人頭帳戶的人，人民其實不太關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到，人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來，對吧？"],["唐部長鳳：對，及時凍結、及時警示。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為現在大部分的錢都找不回來，所以即使抓到人，他可能也是血本無歸，所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快，才能夠抓得到人。"],["唐部長鳳：就表示要是機器對機器，不能再用人的那種公文交換。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，除了銀行之外，銀行已經下了很嚴格的監管，但其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產，所以虛擬資產的交易平臺，我希望由數發部，剛剛法務部我也講了，我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平臺。因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局、刑事局和派出所，一個一個、一層一層的通報。另外他們通報的方式跑到165去，非常非常的原始，叫做傳真機，我們應該很多人很久沒用過傳真機了，所以這個部分是不是請數發部協助法務部，成立虛擬資產的平臺，他們可以即時凍結裡面異常的帳戶，因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易，好不好？"],["唐部長鳳：委員的詢問我快速說明，我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候，也碰過一模一樣的問題。後來是跟金管會還有165等有一個聯防通報的平臺，包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等，這個應該3月底就會做好。您剛剛提到VASP，就是虛擬資產的部分，當然是由金管會管，但是我會願意，因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的，看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套作法。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以把它介接出來，你可不可以給我一個可能作法的規劃跟相關的時程報告？"],["唐部長鳳：我們一個月之內給委員報告。"],["黃委員珊珊：好的，謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝。"],["主席：黃委員發言完畢，現在請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林國成","許智傑","葛如鈞","黃健豪","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","邱若華","蔡其昌","廖先翔","謝衣鳯","游顥","林沛祥","何欣純","徐巧芯","羅智強","李坤城","陳冠廷","黃珊珊","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","劉建國","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭"],"page_start":349,"meetingDate":["2024-03-07"],"gazette_id":"1130901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長唐鳳列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請數位發展部部長唐鳳就\n「112年度出國預算辦理成效及113年度預計效益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130901_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"149587","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149587","tool":"pyannote","id":"149587-pyannote"},"job_id":"kYWrSZWUNlb3OBIu","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 318.6, \"end\": 318.72, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 318.72, \"end\": 319.141, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 319.141, \"end\": 319.381, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 319.381, \"end\": 319.562, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 319.562, \"end\": 319.582, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,338 --> 00:00:29,060\n委員好謝謝主席謝謝部長昨天謝謝你來看我所以我們也交換了很多意見那這兩天大家看到就是我們內政部的所謂的數位身份證那要賠償業者2億8千萬的算是補償吧那當然你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡就是大家對於政府過度收集各職責會不會做目的外利用所以數位集權的這個大家會很擔心\n\n2\n00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:55,475\n也就是說在相關的個人資料保護跟政府的公權力的平衡上面我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業還有嚴格的監管控制一個獨立的各自會嗎沒有錯所以對於接下來部長我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身份認證的道路對吧我們已經有自然憑證行動自然憑證等到\n\n3\n00:00:56,818 --> 00:01:13,686\n是的,自然憑證是其中一環嘛我最想說我們在疫情期間因為沒有數位身份證只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身份證那是因為這是公共使用啦但是如果是民間它比方商務使用健保卡是不能用的所以我的意思是說\n\n4\n00:01:14,366 --> 00:01:14,526\n同意委員的說法\n\n5\n00:01:34,045 --> 00:01:50,117\n好,那我想這個部分是我昨天有跟部長說就是臺北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下他可以存活下來大概就是因為配套相關的做法我覺得這個部分你覺得將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:52,849 --> 00:02:18,994\n我想在跟委員交換意見的時候我們也特別聽到包含像主計人員經費核銷等等那個是非常難突破的那確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法來突破這種數位經費核銷等等那這部分我想是是在必行因為如果不這樣子推的話那就變成是一個民間的受補助的單位他光是隔一個橋不同的縣市不同服貼的這種方法是非常非常的麻煩\n\n7\n00:02:19,614 --> 00:02:41,336\n但這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做這個也可以用像行動責任憑證等等的方式反正就是說希望在臺灣的是其實應該是數位大國在有數發部的建制雖然你們成立不久但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步第一個要有相關的數位生命認證第二個\n\n8\n00:02:43,078 --> 00:03:11,161\n公部門應該以公代私引領臺灣走向數位轉型尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市的城市有在做但是臺灣不應該感覺現在有那麼差那麼大的城鄉差距更落後這個麻煩這部長可能是你最重要的工作之一另外就是我昨天談到你剛剛我在司法法治委員會討論\n\n9\n00:03:12,782 --> 00:03:12,962\n拜訪委員\n\n10\n00:03:29,856 --> 00:03:45,333\n人民其實不在關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來對吧因為現在大部分大部分的錢都找不回來所以即使抓到人他可能也是血本無悔\n\n11\n00:03:46,014 --> 00:04:00,257\n所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快才能夠抓得到人就表示要是機器對機器不能再用人的那種公文交換了沒錯所以其實我剛剛講\n\n12\n00:04:01,138 --> 00:04:28,999\n除了銀行之外銀行已經現在有很嚴格的監管但是其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產所以虛擬資產的交易平台我希望由數法部剛剛法務部我也講了我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平台因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局自己對刑事局自己對派出所一個一個一層一層的通報另外他們通報的方式跑到165去非常非常的原始叫做傳證機\n\n13\n00:04:31,181 --> 00:04:46,620\n我們應該很多人很久沒有用過傳證器了所以我覺得這個部分是不是請數法部協助法務部成立區域資產的平台他們可以及時凍結裡面異常的帳戶因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易\n\n14\n00:04:47,741 --> 00:05:12,070\n我想委員的這個詢問我快速說明就是我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候也碰過一模一樣的問題那後來是跟金管會還有165等等有一個聯方通報的平台包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等這個應該3月底就會做好那您剛提到VASP就是虛擬資產的部分當然是金管會管但是我會願意說因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套做法\n\n15\n00:05:12,250 --> 00:05:19,582\n所以把他借接出來你是不是可以給我一個可能做法的規劃跟相關的事項報告我們一個月之內給委員報告好的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2338\t29060\t委員好謝謝主席謝謝部長昨天謝謝你來看我所以我們也交換了很多意見那這兩天大家看到就是我們內政部的所謂的數位身份證那要賠償業者2億8千萬的算是補償吧那當然你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡就是大家對於政府過度收集各職責會不會做目的外利用所以數位集權的這個大家會很擔心\n29560\t55475\t也就是說在相關的個人資料保護跟政府的公權力的平衡上面我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業還有嚴格的監管控制一個獨立的各自會嗎沒有錯所以對於接下來部長我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身份認證的道路對吧我們已經有自然憑證行動自然憑證等到\n56818\t73686\t是的,自然憑證是其中一環嘛我最想說我們在疫情期間因為沒有數位身份證只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身份證那是因為這是公共使用啦但是如果是民間它比方商務使用健保卡是不能用的所以我的意思是說\n74366\t74526\t同意委員的說法\n94045\t110117\t好,那我想這個部分是我昨天有跟部長說就是臺北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下他可以存活下來大概就是因為配套相關的做法我覺得這個部分你覺得將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎?\n112849\t138994\t我想在跟委員交換意見的時候我們也特別聽到包含像主計人員經費核銷等等那個是非常難突破的那確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法來突破這種數位經費核銷等等那這部分我想是是在必行因為如果不這樣子推的話那就變成是一個民間的受補助的單位他光是隔一個橋不同的縣市不同服貼的這種方法是非常非常的麻煩\n139614\t161336\t但這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做 這個也可以用像行動責任憑證等等的方式反正就是說希望在臺灣的是其實應該是數位大國 在有數發部的建制雖然你們成立不久但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步第一個要有相關的數位生命認證 第二個\n163078\t191161\t公部門應該以公代私引領臺灣走向數位轉型尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市的城市有在做但是臺灣不應該感覺現在有那麼差那麼大的城鄉差距更落後這個麻煩這部長可能是你最重要的工作之一另外就是我昨天談到你剛剛我在司法法治委員會討論\n192782\t192962\t拜訪委員\n209856\t225333\t人民其實不在關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來對吧因為現在大部分大部分的錢都找不回來所以即使抓到人他可能也是血本無悔\n226014\t240257\t所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快才能夠抓得到人就表示要是機器對機器不能再用人的那種公文交換了沒錯 所以其實我剛剛講\n241138\t268999\t除了銀行之外銀行已經現在有很嚴格的監管但是其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產所以虛擬資產的交易平台我希望由數法部剛剛法務部我也講了我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平台因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局自己對刑事局自己對派出所一個一個一層一層的通報另外他們通報的方式跑到165去非常非常的原始叫做傳證機\n271181\t286620\t我們應該很多人很久沒有用過傳證器了所以我覺得這個部分是不是請數法部協助法務部成立區域資產的平台他們可以及時凍結裡面異常的帳戶因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易\n287741\t312070\t我想委員的這個詢問我快速說明就是我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候也碰過一模一樣的問題那後來是跟金管會還有165等等有一個聯方通報的平台包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等這個應該3月底就會做好那您剛提到VASP就是虛擬資產的部分當然是金管會管但是我會願意說因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套做法\n312250\t319582\t所以把他借接出來你是不是可以給我一個可能做法的規劃跟相關的事項報告我們一個月之內給委員報告好的謝謝\n","txt":"委員好謝謝主席謝謝部長昨天謝謝你來看我所以我們也交換了很多意見那這兩天大家看到就是我們內政部的所謂的數位身份證那要賠償業者2億8千萬的算是補償吧那當然你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡就是大家對於政府過度收集各職責會不會做目的外利用所以數位集權的這個大家會很擔心\n也就是說在相關的個人資料保護跟政府的公權力的平衡上面我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業還有嚴格的監管控制一個獨立的各自會嗎沒有錯所以對於接下來部長我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身份認證的道路對吧我們已經有自然憑證行動自然憑證等到\n是的,自然憑證是其中一環嘛我最想說我們在疫情期間因為沒有數位身份證只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身份證那是因為這是公共使用啦但是如果是民間它比方商務使用健保卡是不能用的所以我的意思是說\n同意委員的說法\n好,那我想這個部分是我昨天有跟部長說就是臺北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下他可以存活下來大概就是因為配套相關的做法我覺得這個部分你覺得將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎?\n我想在跟委員交換意見的時候我們也特別聽到包含像主計人員經費核銷等等那個是非常難突破的那確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法來突破這種數位經費核銷等等那這部分我想是是在必行因為如果不這樣子推的話那就變成是一個民間的受補助的單位他光是隔一個橋不同的縣市不同服貼的這種方法是非常非常的麻煩\n但這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做 這個也可以用像行動責任憑證等等的方式反正就是說希望在臺灣的是其實應該是數位大國 在有數發部的建制雖然你們成立不久但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步第一個要有相關的數位生命認證 第二個\n公部門應該以公代私引領臺灣走向數位轉型尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市的城市有在做但是臺灣不應該感覺現在有那麼差那麼大的城鄉差距更落後這個麻煩這部長可能是你最重要的工作之一另外就是我昨天談到你剛剛我在司法法治委員會討論\n拜訪委員\n人民其實不在關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來對吧因為現在大部分大部分的錢都找不回來所以即使抓到人他可能也是血本無悔\n所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快才能夠抓得到人就表示要是機器對機器不能再用人的那種公文交換了沒錯 所以其實我剛剛講\n除了銀行之外銀行已經現在有很嚴格的監管但是其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產所以虛擬資產的交易平台我希望由數法部剛剛法務部我也講了我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平台因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局自己對刑事局自己對派出所一個一個一層一層的通報另外他們通報的方式跑到165去非常非常的原始叫做傳證機\n我們應該很多人很久沒有用過傳證器了所以我覺得這個部分是不是請數法部協助法務部成立區域資產的平台他們可以及時凍結裡面異常的帳戶因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易\n我想委員的這個詢問我快速說明就是我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候也碰過一模一樣的問題那後來是跟金管會還有165等等有一個聯方通報的平台包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等這個應該3月底就會做好那您剛提到VASP就是虛擬資產的部分當然是金管會管但是我會願意說因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套做法\n所以把他借接出來你是不是可以給我一個可能做法的規劃跟相關的事項報告我們一個月之內給委員報告好的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.338 --> 00:29.060\n委員好謝謝主席謝謝部長昨天謝謝你來看我所以我們也交換了很多意見那這兩天大家看到就是我們內政部的所謂的數位身份證那要賠償業者2億8千萬的算是補償吧那當然你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡就是大家對於政府過度收集各職責會不會做目的外利用所以數位集權的這個大家會很擔心\n\n00:29.560 --> 00:55.475\n也就是說在相關的個人資料保護跟政府的公權力的平衡上面我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業還有嚴格的監管控制一個獨立的各自會嗎沒有錯所以對於接下來部長我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身份認證的道路對吧我們已經有自然憑證行動自然憑證等到\n\n00:56.818 --> 01:13.686\n是的,自然憑證是其中一環嘛我最想說我們在疫情期間因為沒有數位身份證只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身份證那是因為這是公共使用啦但是如果是民間它比方商務使用健保卡是不能用的所以我的意思是說\n\n01:14.366 --> 01:14.526\n同意委員的說法\n\n01:34.045 --> 01:50.117\n好,那我想這個部分是我昨天有跟部長說就是臺北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下他可以存活下來大概就是因為配套相關的做法我覺得這個部分你覺得將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎?\n\n01:52.849 --> 02:18.994\n我想在跟委員交換意見的時候我們也特別聽到包含像主計人員經費核銷等等那個是非常難突破的那確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法來突破這種數位經費核銷等等那這部分我想是是在必行因為如果不這樣子推的話那就變成是一個民間的受補助的單位他光是隔一個橋不同的縣市不同服貼的這種方法是非常非常的麻煩\n\n02:19.614 --> 02:41.336\n但這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做這個也可以用像行動責任憑證等等的方式反正就是說希望在臺灣的是其實應該是數位大國在有數發部的建制雖然你們成立不久但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步第一個要有相關的數位生命認證第二個\n\n02:43.078 --> 03:11.161\n公部門應該以公代私引領臺灣走向數位轉型尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市的城市有在做但是臺灣不應該感覺現在有那麼差那麼大的城鄉差距更落後這個麻煩這部長可能是你最重要的工作之一另外就是我昨天談到你剛剛我在司法法治委員會討論\n\n03:12.782 --> 03:12.962\n拜訪委員\n\n03:29.856 --> 03:45.333\n人民其實不在關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來對吧因為現在大部分大部分的錢都找不回來所以即使抓到人他可能也是血本無悔\n\n03:46.014 --> 04:00.257\n所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快才能夠抓得到人就表示要是機器對機器不能再用人的那種公文交換了沒錯所以其實我剛剛講\n\n04:01.138 --> 04:28.999\n除了銀行之外銀行已經現在有很嚴格的監管但是其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產所以虛擬資產的交易平台我希望由數法部剛剛法務部我也講了我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平台因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局自己對刑事局自己對派出所一個一個一層一層的通報另外他們通報的方式跑到165去非常非常的原始叫做傳證機\n\n04:31.181 --> 04:46.620\n我們應該很多人很久沒有用過傳證器了所以我覺得這個部分是不是請數法部協助法務部成立區域資產的平台他們可以及時凍結裡面異常的帳戶因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易\n\n04:47.741 --> 05:12.070\n我想委員的這個詢問我快速說明就是我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候也碰過一模一樣的問題那後來是跟金管會還有165等等有一個聯方通報的平台包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等這個應該3月底就會做好那您剛提到VASP就是虛擬資產的部分當然是金管會管但是我會願意說因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套做法\n\n05:12.250 --> 05:19.582\n所以把他借接出來你是不是可以給我一個可能做法的規劃跟相關的事項報告我們一個月之內給委員報告好的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.338,"end":29.06,"text":"委員好謝謝主席謝謝部長昨天謝謝你來看我所以我們也交換了很多意見那這兩天大家看到就是我們內政部的所謂的數位身份證那要賠償業者2億8千萬的算是補償吧那當然你覺得它原來的問題是出在哪裡就是大家對於政府過度收集各職責會不會做目的外利用所以數位集權的這個大家會很擔心"},{"start":29.56,"end":55.475,"text":"也就是說在相關的個人資料保護跟政府的公權力的平衡上面我們忽略掉必須先有配套的法制作業還有嚴格的監管控制一個獨立的各自會嗎沒有錯所以對於接下來部長我們臺灣應該還是必須走向數位身份認證的道路對吧我們已經有自然憑證行動自然憑證等到"},{"start":56.818,"end":73.686,"text":"是的,自然憑證是其中一環嘛我最想說我們在疫情期間因為沒有數位身份證只能用最原始的健保卡來替代所謂的數位身份證那是因為這是公共使用啦但是如果是民間它比方商務使用健保卡是不能用的所以我的意思是說"},{"start":74.366,"end":74.526,"text":"同意委員的說法"},{"start":94.045,"end":110.117,"text":"好,那我想這個部分是我昨天有跟部長說就是臺北通在臺北市政府推動的情況下他可以存活下來大概就是因為配套相關的做法我覺得這個部分你覺得將來有辦法做到臺灣通嗎?"},{"start":112.849,"end":138.994,"text":"我想在跟委員交換意見的時候我們也特別聽到包含像主計人員經費核銷等等那個是非常難突破的那確實我們現在就透過公共建設的方法來突破這種數位經費核銷等等那這部分我想是是在必行因為如果不這樣子推的話那就變成是一個民間的受補助的單位他光是隔一個橋不同的縣市不同服貼的這種方法是非常非常的麻煩"},{"start":139.614,"end":161.336,"text":"但這個倒不一定是用所謂app臺灣通的方式來做 這個也可以用像行動責任憑證等等的方式反正就是說希望在臺灣的是其實應該是數位大國 在有數發部的建制雖然你們成立不久但是我相信這個會是臺灣必須要跨出數位轉型最大的一步第一個要有相關的數位生命認證 第二個"},{"start":163.078,"end":191.161,"text":"公部門應該以公代私引領臺灣走向數位轉型尤其是像公部門裡面的電子核銷還有電子公文這個目前大概只有幾個直轄市的城市有在做但是臺灣不應該感覺現在有那麼差那麼大的城鄉差距更落後這個麻煩這部長可能是你最重要的工作之一另外就是我昨天談到你剛剛我在司法法治委員會討論"},{"start":192.782,"end":192.962,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":209.856,"end":225.333,"text":"人民其實不在關心詐騙犯抓不抓得到人民關心的是詐騙的錢找不找得回來對吧因為現在大部分大部分的錢都找不回來所以即使抓到人他可能也是血本無悔"},{"start":226.014,"end":240.257,"text":"所以現在是資訊交換的速度要比詐騙集團他們轉帳的速度快才能夠抓得到人就表示要是機器對機器不能再用人的那種公文交換了沒錯 所以其實我剛剛講"},{"start":241.138,"end":268.999,"text":"除了銀行之外銀行已經現在有很嚴格的監管但是其實現在新興的部分叫做虛擬資產所以虛擬資產的交易平台我希望由數法部剛剛法務部我也講了我們希望政府來協助成立一個虛擬平台因為現在所有的業者要自己對調查局自己對刑事局自己對派出所一個一個一層一層的通報另外他們通報的方式跑到165去非常非常的原始叫做傳證機"},{"start":271.181,"end":286.62,"text":"我們應該很多人很久沒有用過傳證器了所以我覺得這個部分是不是請數法部協助法務部成立區域資產的平台他們可以及時凍結裡面異常的帳戶因為他們其實也是有帳戶在做交易"},{"start":287.741,"end":312.07,"text":"我想委員的這個詢問我快速說明就是我們之前在輔導第三方支付的時候也碰過一模一樣的問題那後來是跟金管會還有165等等有一個聯方通報的平台包含即時查詢虛擬帳號後面是誰等等這個應該3月底就會做好那您剛提到VASP就是虛擬資產的部分當然是金管會管但是我會願意說因為這一套就是跟金管會一起建立起來的看看金管會怎麼樣引入這一套做法"},{"start":312.25,"end":319.582,"text":"所以把他借接出來你是不是可以給我一個可能做法的規劃跟相關的事項報告我們一個月之內給委員報告好的謝謝"}]}}}}