{"id":149602,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149602","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7383c0ce4a703cc11d630b0268bbd12d230da91660cc9cbf8ba9b0039caa7a65291ab39dcec32fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"11:12:40 - 11:43:18","影片長度":"00:30:38","會議時間":"2024-03-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議","id":"院會-11-1-4","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4},"date":"2024-03-08","duration":1838,"end_time":"2024-03-08T11:43:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-08T11:12:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":765,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（11時12分）是，謝謝韓院長，請陳院長。"],["主席：好，再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：委員早安，恭喜你當選立委而且祝你婦女節快樂。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝院長，我想今天所有在立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過、也很快樂，但是還是要提醒，我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友，不管在薪資、不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的，這是非常重要的。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們會全力以赴讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善。"],["柯委員志恩：是。院長，蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺、一發不可收拾；還有前陣子所發生的金廈水域事件，家屬是哭著回去，然後陸方的代表也說後果自負，這麼一連串的事情，可是我們的蔡總統除了接近外賓之外，目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話、也一直神隱。我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後，蔡總統、還有你、還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：有，我們府院一向都有很密切的在討論。"],["柯委員志恩：那蔡總統講什麼？"],["陳院長建仁：實際上我們很重要的就是，對於兩岸的溝通還要繼續來加強，那金廈水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署合法執法的過程。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝院長，最主要原因是因為蔡總統……沒關係，管主委還有邱主委，我目前為止還不需要，有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺，謝謝。我現在是跟院長做對話，因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話，我只好透過你來做一個傳話！"],["陳院長建仁：好，謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：這個部分來說，顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來，我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死、每天是驚心膽跳，然後都睡不著。"],["陳院長建仁：我想不要誤解他的意思。"],["柯委員志恩：我瞭解，但是他是很擔心，這個態度是對的，因為他擔心萬一擦槍走火的話很多後果不堪設想，但是卻有一些的部長不斷在說我們的蔡總統好棒棒，然後他是全世界最辛苦、最難做的一個外交部長，所以部長我的重點是，每個閣員都不一樣，邱部長，沒有問題請你回座，我還是跟院長來做一個對話，謝謝大家，非常謝謝。","我只是要強調到目前為止，距離520還有74天的時間，很多人都已經做好不同的心態，我想請問院長，因為你是蔡總統的第一任副總統，你同時也是最後一任的行政院長，下臺的身影要漂亮，你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼？你又要交什麼給我們的新任總統？"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答了嗎？我想很重要的是，蔡總統執政這8年以來，不管是國際的國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展、防疫的成果上，確實是全世界都有目共睹，那不是我自己講的，因為按照國際評比的結果，不管是經濟自由、民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中……"],["柯委員志恩：所以院長你認為你這是可以交給……"],["陳院長建仁：所以我現在想要很快地回答，因為民進黨政府是繼續執政，而且蔡總統交棒給賴副總統，實際上在這4年來他們也有很好的密切溝通，所以發展一個富國利民的政策一定會持續來進行。"],["柯委員志恩：我剛剛特別問到，因為我們要很具體的一個回應，到底留給新的賴總統會是什麼？我們先來問一下，請問過去蔡總統這樣子執政的8年當中，我們執行了幾項死刑？你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統？"],["陳院長建仁：我印象中大概有執行過2次。"],["柯委員志恩：你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想目前沒有這樣的規劃，而且很多的這些死刑犯您比我還清楚，現在都在等待大法官的釋憲。"],["柯委員志恩：院長，這就是問題所在，我剛剛特別提到你要留什麼？為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲作出答辯？而且未來不管在7月或在9月，大法官做完釋憲之後，不管如何，你留給新的賴總統卻是一個非常大的難題，這已經都是三審定讞了，這些死刑犯都不想死，可是被害人也不想死，這是司法正義，但是你們卻不斷地配合一些民間團體，他們不斷地透過釋憲、再審等等之類的，我想請問難道這些三審定讞的、你們認為這些法官都是亂判嗎？我們臺灣的民意有八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的，我的重點在這裡，為什麼留下這些攤子給我們的新任總統？你送給他38個死刑犯。"],["陳院長建仁：我想每一個人對於死刑的看法不一樣，對於人權的保障也是很重要，而這件事情大法官要什麼時候來做釋憲是由大法官自己來做決定，在司法獨立的情況下，我們完全尊重憲法法庭開庭的時間。"],["柯委員志恩：時間點的問題，而且我要特別強調……"],["陳院長建仁：我們尊重……"],["柯委員志恩：如果廢死是民進黨的一張神主牌，我覺得就勇敢地把它說出來，不要以拖待變，然後把廢死的一些配套好好的完整提出來，否則我說過你留給新政府是什麼？第一個，你留給他的就是38位死刑犯，這是第一個；第二個，我們再來看一下，能源的政策是非常多人……我們的法務部長可以先請回去，等一下還有機會。我們的能源政策我還是要特別強調一下，留給我們的新政府是什麼？我想請問院長，上面所提出的這些法案，包括他們的子法，到底已經出我們各部會了沒有？"],["陳院長建仁：相關的子法各部會都有認真在訂定，有些子法已經公布，有些還在進行當中，應該是這樣。"],["柯委員志恩：所以520之前有辦法把這些修正的法案包括子法全部送到立法院來嗎？以示負責嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：這個我要再盤點一下，因為你問到子法這個太細了，請部長回答……"],["王部長美花：經濟部再生能源管理條例的子法我們最近就會趕快確定……"],["柯委員志恩：所以在520之前，我剛剛所條列的這些項目當中，到底有多少項可以送到立法院來做審議？這是一個對於你能源政策負責的表現。"],["王部長美花：子法的部分是到立法院來做備案，子法的部分我們最近……最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分……"],["柯委員志恩：是，我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案，我要告訴大家，在520之前這些法案不送進來，但是我們卻急著要來做電價的調漲，我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下，目前來說，我們當然知道台電即使在2023年虧損我們補了500億，但是它還是預估有1,985億的虧損，而且今年預估可能還會再繼續虧損一千多億，是不是這樣子？"],["陳院長建仁：是，原因就是因為國際燃料價格上漲嘛！如果你講到所謂的綠電，它占我們現在所有發電的比例不高，所以如果我們要看電價的高低，實際上要看現在占大部分的燃氣跟燃煤部分……"],["柯委員志恩：有、有、有，來、來，院長，我們馬上就有台電的財報，馬上就可以來做一些檢討了，而且我覺得院長你不斷地強調很多的部分，大家問到為什麼會虧損，你特別提到了俄烏戰爭，我要提醒院長，去年7月的時候俄烏戰爭已經開打了，不過你在同樣的地方告訴我們可能預估不會漲價，這是你去年7月所特別提到的。","我們來看看台電的財報好了，購入的電價當中，的確有院長所提到的越來越貴了，而且我們再看下一頁，所購入的電力當中，你會發現我們所購入的部分，風力發電6.7、地熱6.32，然後太陽能光電是4.88，我們所購入的當中，的確這些綠電真的是比較貴，但是比較便宜的都是屬於比較便宜的。","所以我要問的部分是，你看看我們要達到這個配比，不好意思，2025我們所預定的50%、30%、20%已經確定是跳票了，因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到。但是我們再來看看數據，我們要如何達到這樣的配比？即使已經跳票的2026來說的話，我們的再生能源還要增加11%，然後燃煤要降低4%。我只想請問，以這樣的配比來看的話，以購入電力的價格來看，我們所購入的都是比較貴的能源，所以漲價會不會是一種常態？到底要彌補多少才有辦法彌補台電的虧損？"],["王部長美花：兩個部分，再生能源會增加，但是再生能源已經越來越多是直接賣給民間，並不是由台電來躉購，特別是離岸風電的部分，2025年完成的全部都是賣給民間，至於太陽光電部分，現在也都陸續轉賣給民間，因為這個是民間的企業，非常有需要綠電。"],["柯委員志恩：好，沒關係，既然談到民間企業，我們就繼續來討論台電的虧損問題。我們來看一下，如果台電的虧損問題，我想請問一下，因為我跟台電要資料，他們說這是機密，我不曉得機密在哪裡？我想請問院長，你知不知道有關於我們要提到的離岸風電問題，目前中油投資40億，然後台電是67億，合起來超過一百多億，目前已經受到行政院同意，這是事實吧？要投資這些離岸風電的問題，我們討論多久？"],["王部長美花：這個是由經濟部來決定，目前還在走程序，原則上我們會同意它來投資。"],["柯委員志恩：那好了，同意的話，很多相關的官員還指出投資風場內部的投資報酬率（IRR）是非常穩定的，這也是一個事實吧？你所得到的訊息也是事實吧？如果是這麼樣穩定的話，為什麼我們還要大費周章地拉八大行庫去做信用擔保呢？"],["王部長美花：這個一定需要，不是只有臺灣……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["王部長美花：所有國家在風場建置部分，一定都會需要貸款的部分。"],["柯委員志恩：好，如果要來做這樣一個擔保的話，我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼必要性喔！其實院長，我在第九任就擔任立法委員，我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了，在示範風場得標的時候我就質疑，為什麼我們花了250億，用的是日立末代的風機？我還特別問到如何保證未來20年當中它可以確保無誤。結果現在風場蓋完了，我們來檢視一下它到底得到一個什麼樣的結果，好不好？我們來檢視一下結果。我要告訴院長，因為我們都談到科學，目前國外認為風機的可用率都是到97%才需要來下注投標，這才是需要來做保證的，97%是國外、歐洲所有的部分都這樣。可是目前為止，我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄，只有56%耶！各位，在過去兩年當中，只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些標準，大部分的時間我們風機的可用率是非常低的，在這麼低的狀況之下，我只能說這是一個事實，我們從來沒有達過97%這樣的一個風機的可用率，為什麼我們是獨步全球的低？代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。"],["陳院長建仁：不是這樣。"],["王部長美花：委員的這個數據我回去確認，但是我的理解應該跟委員的理解是有落差的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["王部長美花：應該不是這樣子。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，我的理解是，97%是國外的一個訊息，但是過去2年，過去24個月當中，的確沒有達到這樣的標準，而且你說到民間的用電，我必須要提醒一下，在我們的風電裡面，在第3期當中，不管是來自於哪一個國家，德國的萊茵再生能源宣布要退出臺灣，還有我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率，更不要講丹麥最大的 DONG Energy他們也是在做很大的評估，所以我只能說很多國際的部分是紛紛退出，而我們卻要投資得這麼大，這個是我們要特別提到的。"],["王部長美花：不是，有的有換，也有新增，然後有一些沒有進來，所以你講的日商，有一個日商確實是退出，但是有另外一個日商加進來，所以這個在不同的國家，對不同的風場，它本來就會評估。"],["柯委員志恩：我要求台電做出這樣的一個資料，而且趁著這個時間點，請院長責成他們在1個月之內給我相關的資料，可以讓我們有多一點的瞭解，因為我們必須要搞清楚這些源頭。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["柯委員志恩：因為這是能源最大的一個問題，我不希望一個大的錢坑要我們這些八大行庫一起去跳火坑，這是我質詢最大的一個重點，可以嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有問題，我們可以提供給委員，讓委員瞭解。"],["柯委員志恩：因為這個能源的問題牽涉到未來我們的電價，這都是環環相扣的，所以我也不希望能源的這些問題留給我們的新任總統，讓他有一大堆的爛攤子。"],["王部長美花：委員講得中油、台電的這個投資案，未來都是賣給民間的，不是給台電躉購，都不是。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["柯委員志恩：我沒有，我沒有說它是給台電躉購，你誤會我的意思。"],["陳院長建仁：這是民間的。"],["柯委員志恩：都是在民間，我只是強調這樣的投資，當外商紛紛已經畫上一個問號的時候，我們這樣的投資到底有沒有它的正確度？"],["陳院長建仁：外商沒有畫問號。"],["柯委員志恩：這是你們要審慎評估的。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["柯委員志恩：請院長在最後的74天當中，也必須要好好地去做。"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答一下嗎？"],["柯委員志恩：可以。"],["陳院長建仁：這個是外商的投資，而且外商現在對於這個風電發電很有信心，所以他們現在也可以百分之百的賣給民間，所以在這個部分，你那個97%的風機可用率，計算的標準是什麼？確實是像部長講的，我們需要去研究看看。"],["柯委員志恩：97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，是定義，科學定義。"],["柯委員志恩：可以，我們就好好地用科學論述。"],["陳院長建仁：對、對、對。"],["柯委員志恩：但是我要的資料沒有要到，所以院長，趁這個時間幫我要到資料去做……"],["陳院長建仁：好，所以我們定義清楚。"],["王部長美花：沒有問題，我們把這個資料給委員。"],["柯委員志恩：這才是一個我們真正互相答辯的方式，很好！在這個部分裡面，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：因為電費問題是大家非常重視的。接下來我們來問一下很多人關心的詐騙問題。院長，你有沒有看過，你曾經要送很多人書欸？你知道你的臉也有被放在詐騙集團的文案當中嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！確實，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：對，不過你的運氣滿好的，你都還沒有發現之前，我們刑事警察局已經幫你把它移除了，幫你打詐了，可是……"],["陳院長建仁：我想刑事警察局對於任何社會關注的人士，在碰到這個情況時第一時點上就會讓它下架，但是我們在打詐的工作上確實還需要再繼續加強的，因為最近全世界詐騙的技術翻陳出新。"],["柯委員志恩：是啊！"],["陳院長建仁：其實我們打詐有滿不錯的成果……"],["柯委員志恩：院長，沒關係，你打詐有很多成果，但是我們還是要發現問題，我們來看看到底要怎麼樣解決。我昨天在立法院就接到一個詐騙電話，他說我的電費沒有繳，要來拆我的電表。在立法院接到這個電話，你相信嗎？而且我問了所有立法院的助理，每個人都接過類似的詐騙電話。我們來審視一下，你看，我相信政府有決心要來打詐，但是到底成效怎麼樣？你看，蔡總統成立了「打擊詐欺犯罪中心」，蘇院長也成立了「打詐國家隊」，然後你成立了「打詐辦公室」，真的每個人都想打詐，金額是越花越多，然後打詐的技術卻越來越高超，這真的是「仙拼仙」耶！所以打詐的成效到底如何？你說有成效，我們來檢視一下。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["柯委員志恩：院長，我還是提醒一下，你認為很有成效，你會提出數據，但是人民的感受不是這個樣子，你看你花了這麼多錢，我現在幫你整理一下，打詐的人力就是不足，你看165專線被打爆，你們提到的，我們就以兩個層次來看，檢察機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了671人，這我幫你算出來了，而且打詐中心的165專線，說實在的，配備45個人，1年接到43萬通的電話，平均每天大概是1,184通，而且每人平均接了快100通的電話，這個人力……","我們再看下面一個，你花了這麼多的錢，比過去更多的錢，但是你放在人力的部分只占百分之六點多，大部分都放在設備跟儀器，但是我們需要聽到有人親自在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦，可是你卻把整個的配比放在這個地方，這難道不是打詐不利滿大的一個因素嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想如果沒有很好的設備，要打詐更困難，那……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有很好的人，你也沒辦法第一時間來讓我們知道該怎麼辦啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對，但是人力跟設備要同時精進，而不是說我進了很多人力，沒有設備……"],["柯委員志恩：你的人力只有六點多耶！院長，你的人力配比只有這麼多耶！"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，你現在看的是經費的占比嘛！"],["柯委員志恩：當然啦！"],["陳院長建仁：所以是經費的占比，很多的這些軟體，像最近……我舉一個例子，「Linbay好油」那一個例子就是因為我們有很好的軟體、很好的設備，才能夠追蹤……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦！院長，你不要再談「Linbay好油」，我只是告訴你……"],["陳院長建仁：我只是舉一個例子啦！你不要那麼敏感。"],["柯委員志恩：好，院長，你就舉這個例子，但是我只是強調這一個重點，就是你人力的配比，包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上千通的電話，你已經爆掉了，165的人員已經爆掉了，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["柯委員志恩：還有，院長，因為時間……"],["陳院長建仁：我同意你啦！就是說當我們有好的設備，我們的人力需要進用、加強，然後讓科技執法能夠進行，這個我們雙方來努力，如果人力不足，我們當然會來補充啊！"],["柯委員志恩：那什麼時候來補足？現在內政部長和法務部長都在，你人力什麼時候補足？"],["蔡部長清祥：跟委員說明，我們檢察人力需要檢察官助理，行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人，今年還要撥150人，所以我們在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴，做好打詐的工作。"],["柯委員志恩：你的檢察官助理、你的檢察單位裡面，其實對你們是有非常多的怨言，基層還是有一些批評喔！"],["蔡部長清祥：不是，非常肯定我們現在增加了檢察官助理，成果非常好。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，我還是提醒一下，真的為你們好，不要每天說你們成果很好，當你成果很好的時候……"],["蔡部長清祥：我是說檢察官助理來幫助很大。"],["柯委員志恩：檢察官助理的部分，他們同樣沒有辦法代替檢察官，他們只是在行政業務上面……"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["柯委員志恩：畢竟他們還不是，所以他們只能在行政業務上面去做一些擔待。"],["蔡部長清祥：那就可以分擔很多檢察官的工作。"],["柯委員志恩：是，問題是檢察官做得再好，人民還是覺得我們目前打詐非常的不力，而且有非常多的意見，這個要跟院長好好的反映一下。你所帶領的這些團隊，你或許告訴我你做得很好，但是我們有太多的社會案件，人都抓回來了，你們還把他當作大內宣，結果呢？一個一個又被放走！還被人家取笑說根本就是拿了免費機票跟吃麵線……"],["蔡部長清祥：不是這樣……"],["柯委員志恩：當然是這樣！這不是我講的……"],["蔡部長清祥：因為他是一個通緝犯，我們當然一定要引渡回來。"],["柯委員志恩：不只一個！"],["蔡部長清祥：現在還在偵辦當中。"],["柯委員志恩：是，問題是你不能否認很多時候抓回來的人，又被法院的法官一一把他給放掉了，所以院長，你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們來溝通。"],["柯委員志恩：檢警辛苦的這樣抓人回來，結果全部都被……"],["陳院長建仁：我們尊重司法獨立啦！"],["柯委員志恩：什麼司法獨立！這……"],["陳院長建仁：不用急，我們會跟司法院溝通，然後好好的跟它協調，但是我們絕對希望詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰，能夠有嚇阻的作用。"],["柯委員志恩：院長，你們有非常多的案例，這些都是讓人民覺得非常的有感。"],["陳院長建仁：對，但是我們要尊重司法獨立。"],["柯委員志恩：我當然知道你要尊重，但是你要把問題解決是最重要的。"],["陳院長建仁：對，所以我們會協調溝通。"],["柯委員志恩：對啊！所以要好好跟司法院協調，不要檢警在那邊抓人，然後法官在放人，雖然今年是龍年，但是不要那麼多恐龍法官，好不好？院長，這很重要啦！"],["陳院長建仁：這個我們同意，我們也會努力來……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦！那你說以打詐來說的話……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我要幫司法院講一下，司法院最近也很努力的……"],["柯委員志恩：大家都很努力，但是人民都沒什麼感覺，所以你看，我剛剛問你要留給我們新總統的是什麼？真的，詐騙的黑數也很多，你們所提出來詐騙的金額88億，還有很多的黑數。我還是強調……"],["陳院長建仁：我們在去年，不法犯罪所得就查到41億，而且攔阻詐騙已經攔阻了76億，所以116億的錢因為有打詐的努力，所以才使得116億能夠保住，當然我們還要繼續努力……"],["柯委員志恩：你有保住一些錢，但是你讓民眾失去更多錢。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有啊！你剛才講的是80億嘛！"],["柯委員志恩：那個還有黑數，還只是我現在看到的、查出來的資料，院長你不能否認還是有些黑數。"],["陳院長建仁：我想黑數……"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告一下，現在黑數比以前降低很多，特別是我們165專線設了之後，因為案件進來……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林部長右昌：過去可能就像COVID-19一樣……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數，你如何告訴我黑數降低很多？黑數就是看不到的數字，看不到數字，你怎麼把它降低，怎麼改變很多？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，跟委員報告，就像COVID-19一樣，過去可能確診，他不報，可是因為現在有充分的管道像165，他不只可以報案，現在還可以讓我們變成一個大數據。所以現在165的專線，像你剛剛在講通數增加，但是通數增加對我們處理打詐的事情有幫助，因為這樣才可以在最短的時間裡面，拿最新的這種犯罪手法去跟民眾宣導。"],["柯委員志恩：我剛剛已經特別提到了，我知道你們都有在努力，但是很顯然這樣的成效……，連我昨天都還繼續接到詐騙電話，要拆立法院的電表，真是把我給嚇到了，所以這已經不是一個個案。"],["林部長右昌：是，跟委員報告，因為它是無差別的攻擊……"],["柯委員志恩：是。"],["林部長右昌：所以現在用AI、用科技的方式。"],["柯委員志恩：我只是要告訴你，這些部分人民都會感受得到，所以不要舉白旗，把詐騙的事情又留給我們的新總統，我現在都幫我們賴總統在講話，好不好？那我們繼續看看這個成效……"],["陳院長建仁：我們沒有舉白旗啦！我們很努力！"],["柯委員志恩：我們現在繼續看看成效嘛！你看包括這個部分，我們行政院也提出了這樣子的打擊辦公室，但是你看看所有的部分，包括你剛剛看到了，整個組織有內政部、有NCC，還有金管，還有包括法務，我真的沒有看到……"],["陳院長建仁：有，有數位部。"],["柯委員志恩：有，有數位部，有！它是放在NCC下面的組織，你去看，它放在NCC下面，我還幫……你來看一下，院長，你不要這樣很無奈的微笑，我告訴你，我都是用科學數據來告訴你。你看數位發展部的任務是配合NCC，放在它的下面。它做了哪些事情？幫電商上課、督促業者做這個檢測，還有包括做一些鼓勵還是上課，這不是我們數位部的一個標準。部長上來了！"],["唐部長鳳：我可以回答嗎？好，我們不只有協助NCC，我們也有協助金管會，特別是在阻詐跟堵詐這兩件事，資訊流跟金流上，我們都全力配合。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，他們把這個條文裡面4個大的部會都放在前面，你是附屬在NCC下面，難道不會覺得委屈嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：還有一個……"],["柯委員志恩：你是數位部卻沒有辦法在打詐裡面發揮一定的能力，把你放在NCC下面，難道不會讓你倍感委屈嗎？我都替你委屈了。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我們整個圖，你不要用這個圖看啦！這個圖是識詐、阻詐、堵詐跟懲詐，有不同的主責單位，我們數位部實際上跟這4個部分都有重要的關聯，識詐、阻詐、堵詐跟懲詐，都有幫助啦！"],["柯委員志恩：我知道啊！數位部目前就是放在堵詐的部分，現在剛好唐部長自己上來了，我說實在的，當初你上任的時候，大家認為你是IT的一個天才，現在大家對你4,000萬的出國旅費等等有意見，似乎把你認為是我們打詐當中最大的一個戰犯，而你剛好上來了。我先問你，院長，他昨天在交通委員會被質詢，似乎被認為在打詐的團體當中，唐鳳是一個最需要負責的第一號戰犯，你怎麼樣看待？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得這一個打詐的過程當中，剛才我講過，就是內政部、通傳會、金管會、數位部、法務部……"],["柯委員志恩：我只問唐鳳昨天一路下來，似乎已經從一個大家認為最大的、亮眼的明星，現在淪為打詐不力最大的一個戰犯，你怎麼來看待這件事情？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得沒有任何的戰犯，打詐有很多很多努力的團隊……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你認為我們唐部長很好，做得還不錯，數位部做得不錯囉？"],["陳院長建仁：每一個部長，每一個部會的首長都做得不錯！"],["柯委員志恩：喔！那你的條件真的比我們這些民間的委員寬容非常的多！"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得要看看哪一個item、哪一個項目，當然有一些、某一個特定的工作上，需要再改進、再精進，這個有，但是他們整體的努力，為民服務這樣的用心，我都給他們很大的肯定，感謝他們能夠使臺灣……"],["柯委員志恩：哇賽！所以你覺得數位部……"],["陳院長建仁：福國利民，然後股票可以漲到2萬點，還有經濟很好……"],["柯委員志恩：欸！院長，你留下什麼？股票漲到2萬點，很多時候你會發現……股民到底有多少？大家平均的財富有多少？股票2萬點，你要看數字背後到底是什麼，你會不會造成更大的貧富差距？"],["陳院長建仁：那你不喜歡嗎？"],["柯委員志恩：所以院長，這個數字的背後……"],["陳院長建仁：你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點？"],["柯委員志恩：我喜歡股票漲到2萬點，但是不能因為這樣就表示你的政績，這背後代表什麼？有很多其他的國家股票漲很多，但你會發現這個股票漲很多的狀況之下，不是每個股民都可以受惠，反而是讓貧富差距、相對剝奪感更增加。我今天不跟你談論股票，只討論打詐的問題，不要跟我扯太多。","唐部長，經過昨天這樣一連串的質詢，你認為數位部要不要為打詐負起全權的責任？似乎目前都把責任放在你身上。"],["唐部長鳳：跟委員報告，客觀的來講，我們主責的部分包含電商和之前分期付款、解除詐騙等等，但是最近5個月已經都沒出現在165的高風險賣場，我們主責的遊戲點數案件也大幅下降，我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面登錄，這些都是在我們主責的範圍內提供幫助，當然大家期望我做更多關於網路上面的廣告平台業等等，這我們也願意來主責。"],["柯委員志恩：對，大家期望你更多，但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了，你目前只剩下74天的時間，在剩下的時間內，你是否可以在新任總統上任之前，讓我們在場的每一個人能夠看得出打詐更好的成效？否則你們剛才所條列的每一個事項，對民眾來說，其實感受度還是非常的低。"],["唐部長鳳：我想在投資廣告上，大家不希望看到的是同一個人可以冒名好幾個名人，這部分已經一讀送交委員會，是電子簽章法要解決的問題，所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案。"],["柯委員志恩：電子簽章法我沒有問題。院長，最後給你的時間當中，我還是認為，剩下74天時間可以做的事情非常多。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我會做到最後一天。"],["柯委員志恩：我剛剛所條列出來，包括死刑犯、釋憲部分，這個時間點本席是有意見的。","第二個，有關我剛才要求的電價、台電的虧損，還有購入電力、風場的部分，也請你能夠呈現給我。","還有最重要的是，人民認為應該要在打詐層面做好的工作，不要一天到晚告訴我做得多好、多好，你們說很多地方已經下架，但關於人民被詐騙，我剛剛已經特別提出來了，詐騙的筆數很高、黑數更高，所以大家都在比賽技術層面。如果人民沒感覺，我們的溫度沒有被感受到，你再多數字對我們來說也是你們自己大內宣的數據，不是嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對，所以我也一再強調，我們現在整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國利民的工作，在5月20日可以跟下一任內閣無縫交接，把現在8年所做的好成績繼續發揚光大，能夠使臺灣更加堅韌、更加溫暖。"],["柯委員志恩：唉，院長我最後一句話，真的！下台的身影要漂亮，或許你519可以瀟灑轉身，揮揮衣袖不帶雲彩，但是我真的對於520要上台的賴總統是不是可以微笑上台存疑，畢竟有這麼多的事情要他去處理……"],["陳院長建仁：你不用擔心，我們會好好的溝通、無縫接軌。"],["柯委員志恩：我個人還是抱著相當懷疑的態度。"],["陳院長建仁：那是你的見解。"],["柯委員志恩：剩下的74天，我只能告訴你帶的團隊，請你們好好繃緊神經……"],["陳院長建仁：我們會繃緊神經，一向如此。"],["柯委員志恩：我們每個人都會好好的看，我剛剛所提到的那些法案，520之前應該已經出門上路了，好不好？這才是本席對你最大的期許。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們會無縫接軌……"],["主席：謝謝柯委員志恩的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第49號陳瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-08"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1130601_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"149602","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149602","tool":"pyannote","id":"149602-pyannote"},"job_id":"AlhVgbQCiaeA5XVk","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 1294.292, \"end\": 1296.814, \"text\": \"我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1294.292, \"end\": 1294.332, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1294.332, \"end\": 1294.412, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1294.412, \"end\": 1294.572, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1294.572, \"end\": 1294.692, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1294.692, \"end\": 1294.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1294.712, \"end\": 1294.732, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1294.732, \"end\": 1294.752, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1294.752, \"end\": 1294.792, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 1294.792, \"end\": 1294.953, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 1294.953, \"end\": 1295.073, \"score\": 0.833}, 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\"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1811.191, \"end\": 1811.391, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 1811.391, \"end\": 1811.471, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1811.471, \"end\": 1811.491, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"穎\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1811.491, \"end\": 1811.511, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,875 --> 00:00:23,864\n好,我們謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請我們的陳院長。好,再請陳院長備詢。會員早安。恭喜你當選立委,而且祝你婦女節快樂。\n\n2\n00:00:25,661 --> 00:00:45,362\n謝謝院長我想今天在所有立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過也很快樂但是還是要提醒我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友他們不管在薪資不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的這是非常重要的讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善\n\n3\n00:00:45,762 --> 00:01:14,742\n是,那我想院長我們這蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺的一發不可收拾還有前者所發生的禁獄事件家屬是哭著回去然後路方的代表也說後果自負這麼一連串的事情可是我們的蔡總統他除了接見外賓之外目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話也一直神隱我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後蔡總統還有你還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎\n\n4\n00:01:15,683 --> 00:01:39,155\n有。我們一向府院都有很密切的討論。那蔡總統講什麼?實際上我們很重要的就是對於這一個兩岸的溝通要繼續來加強。那這個金下水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署的這個合法執法的過程。謝謝。那個院長最主要的原因是因為蔡總統沒關係那個\n\n5\n00:01:40,936 --> 00:02:08,578\n關主委我現在目前為止還有邱主委目前為止還不需要有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺謝謝好我現在就跟院長做因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話我只好透過你來做一個傳話這個部分來說的話那顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死每天是驚心膽跳的然後都睡不著我想不要誤解他的意思我了解但是他是很擔心這個態度是對的因為他擔心\n\n6\n00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:10,119\n謝謝大家,非常謝謝。\n\n7\n00:02:34,218 --> 00:02:57,515\n然後呢我只是要強調目前為止我們G520還有74天的時間很多的這個人都已經做好不同的一個心態我想請問院長因為你是我們蔡總統的第一任副總統你同時也是最後一任的行政院長下台的身影要漂亮你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼你又會交什麼給我們的新任總統我想\n\n8\n00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:06,147\n我可以回答了嗎?我想很重要的就是說在蔡總統執政這8年以來不管在國際的這個\n\n9\n00:03:09,051 --> 00:03:29,993\n國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展防疫的成果上確實是全世界都有目共睹那不是我自己講的因為如果按照國際評比的這個結果不管是經濟自由民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中所以院長你認為你就是交給﹖所以我現在想要\n\n10\n00:03:30,433 --> 00:03:34,356\n在這四年來他們也有很好的密切溝通所以我想這個持續來發展一個復國黎民的政策一定會持續來進行\n\n11\n00:03:51,829 --> 00:04:17,601\n我剛特別問到因為我們要很具體的一個回應到底留給我們的這個新的賴總統會是什麼我們先來問一下請問過去蔡總統這樣子的執行的八年當中我們執行的幾項死刑你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統我印象中是大概有執行過兩項兩次你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎我想這個目前\n\n12\n00:04:19,735 --> 00:04:47,705\n沒有這樣的規劃而且很多的這些死刑案您比我還清楚嘛現在都在等待這一個大法官的釋憲院長這就是問題所在我剛特別提到你要留給什麼為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲做出答辯而且在未來不管在7月或在9月大法官做完釋憲之後呢其實不管如何你留給了我們的\n\n13\n00:05:08,424 --> 00:05:12,989\n我想請問,難道這些深省敵人你們是認為這些法官都是亂判嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:12,989 --> 00:05:24,820\n我們台灣的民意是八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的。我的重點在就是為什麼留下這些的攤子給我們的新任總統,你送了他38個死刑犯給他。\n\n15\n00:05:25,794 --> 00:05:30,215\n時間點的問題而且我要特別強調如果Face是民進黨的一張神主牌我覺得就勇敢的把它說出來\n\n16\n00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:56,221\n我還是要特別強調一下\n\n17\n00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:37,149\n那留給我們的新政府是什麼?我想請問院長上面所提出的這些的法案包括他們的執法到底已經出了我們各部會了沒有?相關的執法各部會都有認真在訂定那有些的執法已經公佈有些還在進行當中應該是這樣\n\n18\n00:06:38,257 --> 00:06:44,462\n所以是520之前有辦法把這些的修正的法案包括執法全部送到我們立法院來嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:44,462 --> 00:07:00,757\n這可以以事負責嗎?這個我要再盤點一下因為你問到執法這個太細了。經濟部的那個災生人員管理條例的執法我們最近就會趕快確定。所以你們在520之前我剛剛所條例的這些的項目當中到底有多少項可以送到我們立法院來做審?\n\n20\n00:07:01,417 --> 00:07:27,354\n這是一個對於你能源政策負責的一個表現喔?執法的部分是到立法院來做備案。那執法的部分我們最近最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分。是,我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案。那我要告訴大家就是說在520之前這些法案不送進來但是我們卻急著要來做電價的漲調。我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下。\n\n21\n00:07:28,775 --> 00:07:32,717\n目前來說我們當然知道這個臺電我們即使是在2023年虧損我們補了500億但是呢他還是預估有1985億的虧損而且今年預估可能還會再繼續還要再虧損1000多億是不是這樣子\n\n22\n00:07:45,584 --> 00:08:03,236\n是,原因就是因為這個國際燃料價格上漲嘛,那如果你講到所謂的綠電,它在我們所有現在發電的比例不高,那所以呢如果我們要看電價的高低呢,實際上要看現在佔大部分的燃氣跟燃煤的比例。\n\n23\n00:08:03,416 --> 00:08:27,989\n有有有來來我們院長我們馬上的這馬上就有臺電的這個財報來了我們馬上就可以來做一些檢討了而且我覺得院長你不但的強調很多的部分大家問他為什麼會虧損你特別提到的惡霧戰爭我要提醒院長去年7月的時候惡霧戰爭已經開打了不過你在同樣的地方你告訴我們可能預估不會漲價這是你去年7月所特別提到的那我們來看看我們臺電的這個財報好了這個購入的這個所謂的電價裡面當中的確院長你所提到的\n\n24\n00:08:55,470 --> 00:09:20,954\n你看看我們要達到這個配比不好意思2025我們所預定的50、30、20已經確定是跳票了因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到但是我們再來看看數據你看我們要如何達到這樣的配比即使已經跳票的2026來說的話我們的再生能源還要增加11%然後呢我們的燃煤要降低4我只想請問以這樣的配比來看的話以購入電力的價格來去看\n\n25\n00:09:47,029 --> 00:09:47,149\n您看﹖\n\n26\n00:10:06,209 --> 00:10:28,141\n如果臺電的虧損問題我想請問一下因為我這跟臺電要資料他們說這是機密我不曉得機密在哪裡那目前為止我想請問院長你知不知道有關於我們要提到的這個離岸封店的這個問題目前中油投資40億然後臺電是67億超過何幾才差不多100多億然後目前已經受到這個行政院同意這是事實吧\n\n27\n00:10:29,431 --> 00:10:51,563\n關於投資我們這些離岸風電的問題,我們討論…這個是經濟部這邊來決定,那目前還在走程序,那原則上我們會同意他來投資。那好了,那同意的話,那很多的相關的官員還指出來,我們投資風場內部的投資報酬力,就是IRR是非常穩定的,這也是一個事實吧,你所得到的訊息也是事實吧。那如果是這麼樣的穩定的話,那為什麼?\n\n28\n00:10:54,184 --> 00:11:00,466\n我們還要拉這個八大行會做信用擔保呢?\n\n29\n00:11:00,466 --> 00:11:20,673\n這個一定需要,這個不是只有臺灣,所有國家封廠的建制的部分,他一定都會需要這個臺灣的部分。那如果說需要來做這樣的一個擔保的話,那我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼一個必要性。其實院長,我在第9任就擔任立法院委員,我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了,在這個示範封\n\n30\n00:11:20,913 --> 00:11:21,774\n我告訴院長因為我們都談到科學。\n\n31\n00:11:43,092 --> 00:12:09,922\n目前國外認為認為風機的可用率多到97%你才需要來下注投標這才是需要來做的保證的97%這是國外歐洲所有的部分都這樣可是我們現在目前為止的我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄只有56%各位我們在過去兩年當中只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些的標準大部分的時間來說我們風機的可用率是非常低的\n\n32\n00:12:10,622 --> 00:12:33,302\n這麼低的狀況之下,我只能說這是一個事實。我們二十層從來沒有達過97%的這樣的一個風機的可用率。然後為什麼我們是獨步全球的低,代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。委員的這個數據我回去確認,但是我的理解應該跟我的理解是有落差的,應該不是這樣子。\n\n33\n00:12:33,902 --> 00:13:00,618\n沒有我的理解97%是國外的一個訊息但是過去兩年過去24個月當中的確沒有達到這麼樣的標準而且你說民間的一個用電我必須要提醒一下在我們的這個我們的這個風電裡面第三期當中不管是來自於不同的國家德國的德國的萊茵再生能源他要宣布退出臺灣還有呢我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率\n\n34\n00:13:01,298 --> 00:13:29,623\n還有更不要去講了丹麥最大的DonEnergy他們也是在做很大的一個評估所以呢我只能說很多國的這個部分是紛紛退出而我們確實要如此的來投資這麼大這個是我們要特別提到的有競爭然後有一些沒有進來所以你講的日商日商有一個日商他確實退出但是另外一個日商加進來所以這個在不同的國家他對不同的風場\n\n35\n00:13:31,084 --> 00:13:48,238\n我請求,我要求臺電做出這樣子的一個資料,而且趁著這個時間點,請院長可以責成他們在一個月之內給我相關的資料,可以讓我們多一點了解。因為我們必須要搞清楚這些的源頭,因為這是一個能源最大的一個問題。我不希望一個大的錢坑要...\n\n36\n00:13:49,349 --> 00:14:14,677\n要我們的這些八大行戶來一起跳火坑這是我質詢最大的一個重點沒有問題我們可以提供給委員讓委員了解因為這個能源的問題是牽涉到未來我們電價這都是完全環環相扣的所以我也不希望這個能源的這些的問題留給我們的新任的總統還有一大堆的爛牌子不過這一個如果委員講中油台電這個投資案未來都是賣給民間的不是給台電賺夠都不是\n\n37\n00:14:14,957 --> 00:14:15,917\n我可以回答一下嗎?\n\n38\n00:14:15,917 --> 00:14:16,078\n可以\n\n39\n00:14:36,047 --> 00:14:37,128\n97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候?\n\n40\n00:15:02,205 --> 00:15:25,557\n可以,我們就好好地用科學論述,但是我要的資料沒有要到,所以院長趁這個時間幫我要到資料來去做。這個才是一個真正的我們來互相做一個打變。好,很好,在這個部分裡面,謝謝。我們接下來,下面一個,因為電費問題是大家非常重視的,下面一個我們來問一下,還是很多人關心的,這個詐騙的問題。哎,院長,你有沒有看過,你曾經要送出很多人的書誒?\n\n41\n00:15:27,379 --> 00:15:41,234\n您說你的臉也是被放上我們這個詐騙集團當中。對啊,確實。對,不過你的運氣蠻好的,你都還沒有發生之前,我們刑事警察局已經幫你把他移除了,幫你打詐了。沒有,我想刑事警察局對於任何\n\n42\n00:15:59,256 --> 00:16:01,477\n我相信政府有決心要來打仗但是到底成效怎麼樣\n\n43\n00:16:28,810 --> 00:16:35,397\n蔡總統打擊詐欺的犯罪中心蘇院長也成立了打詐國家隊你成立了打詐辦公室\n\n44\n00:16:39,440 --> 00:17:06,884\n真的每個人都想打仗金額是越花越多然後打仗的技術就越來越高超這真的是生病生的所以到底這個打仗的成效到底如何你說有成效我們來解釋一下院長我還是提醒一下你認為說很有成效但是你要問你會提出數據但是人民的感受不是這個樣子喔你看你花了這麼多錢我現在幫你來整理一下打仗的人力就是不足嘛你看到嗎165的專線的基本是被打爆\n\n45\n00:17:07,825 --> 00:17:22,622\n你們提到我們兩個層次來看,檢查的機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了670億就把你算得出來,而且打造中心的165,說實在的這個配備45個人而且一年接到43萬\n\n46\n00:17:25,064 --> 00:17:53,149\n的電話平均每天大概是1184通而且每人平均接的快100通的電話。這個人力我們再看下面一個這個你花了這麼多的錢比過去更多的錢但是你放在這個所謂的人力的部分裡面只佔6點多大部分都放在設備跟儀器但是我們需要聽到親自的人在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦可是你卻把整個的\n\n47\n00:17:53,649 --> 00:17:54,389\n您現在看的是這一個\n\n48\n00:18:17,657 --> 00:18:18,217\n我只是舉一個例子,你不要那麼敏感。\n\n49\n00:18:34,904 --> 00:19:03,518\n好那院長你就提這個例子但是我只是強調這一個重點就是你人類的配人力的配比包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上前鋒的電話你已經爆掉165的人員已經爆掉了好不好還有還有院長我同意你啦我同意你就是說當我們有好的設備那我們的人力需要來禁用然後呢來加強然後讓用科技執法能夠來進行這個我們雙方來努力如果人力不足我們當然會來補充\n\n50\n00:19:04,679 --> 00:19:27,939\n那什麼時候來補足?現在內政部長或法務部長都在你人力什麼時候補足?跟委員說明我們檢查人力需要檢察官助理那行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人今年還要撥150人所以我們會在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴來做好打詐的工作你的檢察官助理你的檢察單位裡面其實對你們是有非常多的\n\n51\n00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:41,886\n不是,非常肯定,我們現在有增加的檢察官助理,成果非常好。檢察官助理的部分他們同樣沒有代替檢察官,他們只是在行政業務上面,畢竟他們還不是,所以他們只能在行政業務上面做一些擔擔。\n\n52\n00:19:57,833 --> 00:19:58,914\n因為他是一個通緝犯,我們當然一定要引渡回來。\n\n53\n00:20:27,616 --> 00:20:40,070\n現在還在偵辦當中所以問題是你不能否認很多時候你抓回的人的時候被你們法院又法官一一把他給放掉了所以院長你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下好我們來溝通但是我們尊重司法獨立啦我們會來跟法院不用\n\n54\n00:20:46,858 --> 00:21:00,206\n不用急,我們會來跟司法院溝通,然後好好的跟他來協調。但是呢,我們絕對希望這一個詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰,讓他能夠有後續的作用。對,但是我們要尊重司法獨立。對,所以我們會協調溝通。\n\n55\n00:21:08,951 --> 00:21:09,792\n我剛問你說要留下給我們這個新的總統是什麼?\n\n56\n00:21:09,792 --> 00:21:09,872\n真的\n\n57\n00:21:34,292 --> 00:21:36,814\n我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的\n\n58\n00:22:16,456 --> 00:22:35,948\n我想跟委員報告一下現在黑數比以前降低很多特別是我們165專線設了之後因為案件進來過去可能就像COVID-19一樣部長所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數你怎麼可以告訴我如何告訴我黑數是降低很多黑數就是看不到的數字啦那看不到數字你怎麼把它降低怎麼改變很多\n\n59\n00:22:36,348 --> 00:23:00,165\n委員跟你報告因為就像COVID-19一樣過去可能確診他不報可是因為現在有充分的管道165的話他不只是可以這個報案他現在還可以這個這個我們變成是一個大數據所以現在165的專線像你剛剛在講這個通宿增加但是通宿增加對我們處理打炸的事情是有幫助因為才可以在最短的時間裡面把最新的這種\n\n60\n00:23:00,905 --> 00:23:16,003\n我剛才特別提到我知道你們都有在努力但是很顯然這樣一個成效連我昨天都還繼續接到這個詐騙電話要拆我拆立法院的電錶真的把我給嚇到了所以這已經不是一個個案因為他是無差別的攻擊\n\n61\n00:23:16,544 --> 00:23:18,165\n我們沒有舉白旗了。我們很努力。\n\n62\n00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:36,400\n有數位部,有。\n\n63\n00:23:51,883 --> 00:24:19,903\n有有數位部有他是放在NCC之下面放在NCC下面的組織你去看他放在NCC下面我還幫院長你來看一下院長你不要這樣很無奈的微笑我告訴你我都是用科學數據來告訴你你看他是放在數位發展不是放在這個任務是配合NCC的組織條例下面他做了哪些事情幫電商上課督促業者做這個檢測還有包括這些這個做些鼓勵還是上課這不是我們數位部的一個標準\n\n64\n00:24:21,604 --> 00:24:48,844\n部長上來了是可以回答嗎我們不只有協助NCC我們有協助金管會特別是在組詐跟賭詐這兩件事資訊流跟金流上我們都全力來配合部長你他們把這個條文裡面四個大的部會都放在前面你是附屬在NCC下面的那不會覺得委屈嗎你那不會覺得大家因為你是數位部沒有辦法在打仗裡面發揮一個所謂一定能力把你放在NCC下面讓你被感委屈嗎我都替你委屈了\n\n65\n00:24:49,544 --> 00:25:07,135\n委員我們這個整個的那個圖啊你不要用這個圖看啦這個圖是市詐、主詐、賭詐跟懲詐有不同的主責的單位但是我們數位部實際上是跟這四個部分都有重要的情形都有幫助\n\n66\n00:25:07,575 --> 00:25:08,535\n事詐、賭詐、主詐、懲詐都有關事務。\n\n67\n00:25:28,041 --> 00:25:42,714\n市府把你認為是我們打炸當中的是最大的一個戰犯你剛好上來了我先問你院長你對這件事情在他昨天在交通部被質詢市府認為在打炸的團體當中唐鳳是一個最需要被負責的第一號戰犯你怎麼樣看待我覺得\n\n68\n00:25:43,234 --> 00:25:44,434\n我每一個部長、每一個部會的所長都做得不錯。\n\n69\n00:26:10,499 --> 00:26:33,670\n那你的條件真的比我們這些民進黨委員來的寬容非常的多我覺得要看看哪一個item哪一個項目當然有一些某一個特定的工作上需要再改進再精進有但是整體他們的努力為民服務的這樣的一個用心我想我給他們都有很大的肯定感謝他們\n\n70\n00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:35,451\n你不喜歡嗎?你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點?\n\n71\n00:27:26,474 --> 00:27:55,086\n各位委員報告我們主責的部分包含電商客觀的來講之前這個分期付款解除詐騙等等但是最近5個月已經都沒有出現在165的高風險賣場客觀的來說我們主責的遊戲點數也大幅下降這個案件我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面的來登錄所以我想這些都是在我們主責的範圍裡面我們來幫助當然我想大家期望我做更多了就是網路上面的廣告平台業等等那這個我們也願意來主責\n\n72\n00:27:55,731 --> 00:28:21,389\n對大家期望你更多但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了所以你目前只剩下74天的時間了所以在這目前剩下的時間你是否該給我們的新任總統上任之前可以讓我們在場的所有每一個人可以給我們新任總統上任之前給我們一個更好的一個打仗看得出最大一個成效的部分否則你們剛剛所調整的每一個事項對民眾來說的話其實感受度還是非常的低的\n\n73\n00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:50,525\n其實我想在投資廣告上面大家所不希望看到的是同樣一個人他可以冒名稱好幾個名人那這個部分就是我們已經送到現在已經一讀交交委會的電子簽章法要解決的問題所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案電子簽章我沒有問題所以院長最後給你的一個時間當中我還是認為剩下74天的時間可以做的事情非常的多所以我剛剛所調列出來的包括在死刑犯部分的在事件的這個部分裡面這個時間點本席是有意見的第二個\n\n74\n00:28:50,985 --> 00:29:19,134\n有關於我剛所要求的在這個電子價臺電裡面的虧損還有你所購入電力還有風潮的部分也請你能夠呈現去給我還有最重要的是人民認為應該要來在打造層面當中應該做好的這樣的一個工作不要一天到晚都告訴我做的有多好多好你說很多地方已經下架但是人民的被詐騙我剛才特別提出來了詐騙的比數很高黑數更高所以大家都是在比賽技術的層面如果人民沒有敢\n\n75\n00:29:27,241 --> 00:29:49,678\n對,所以我也一再的強調,我們現在的整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國立民的工作,然後在5月20能夠跟下一任的內閣能夠無縫的交接,然後把現在8年所做的這樣的一個好的成績能夠再繼續發揚光大,然後更能夠使得台灣更加的堅韌,更加的溫暖。\n\n76\n00:29:49,838 --> 00:29:50,699\n你不用擔心,我們都會好好的來溝通,還有無縫接軌。\n\n77\n00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:11,511\n謝謝柯委員之恩的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第49號陳穎委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9875\t23864\t好,我們謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請我們的陳院長。好,再請陳院長備詢。會員早安。恭喜你當選立委,而且祝你婦女節快樂。\n25661\t45362\t謝謝院長我想今天在所有立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過也很快樂但是還是要提醒我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友他們不管在薪資不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的這是非常重要的讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善\n45762\t74742\t是,那我想院長我們這蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺的一發不可收拾還有前者所發生的禁獄事件家屬是哭著回去然後路方的代表也說後果自負這麼一連串的事情可是我們的蔡總統他除了接見外賓之外目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話也一直神隱我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後蔡總統還有你還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎\n75683\t99155\t有。我們一向府院都有很密切的討論。那蔡總統講什麼?實際上我們很重要的就是對於這一個兩岸的溝通要繼續來加強。那這個金下水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署的這個合法執法的過程。謝謝。那個院長最主要的原因是因為蔡總統沒關係那個\n100936\t128578\t關主委我現在目前為止還有邱主委目前為止還不需要有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺謝謝好我現在就跟院長做因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話我只好透過你來做一個傳話這個部分來說的話那顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死每天是驚心膽跳的然後都睡不著我想不要誤解他的意思我了解但是他是很擔心這個態度是對的因為他擔心\n129699\t130119\t謝謝大家,非常謝謝。\n154218\t177515\t然後呢我只是要強調目前為止我們G520還有74天的時間很多的這個人都已經做好不同的一個心態我想請問院長因為你是我們蔡總統的第一任副總統你同時也是最後一任的行政院長下台的身影要漂亮你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼你又會交什麼給我們的新任總統我想\n180199\t186147\t我可以回答了嗎?我想很重要的就是說在蔡總統執政這8年以來不管在國際的這個\n189051\t209993\t國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展防疫的成果上確實是全世界都有目共睹那不是我自己講的因為如果按照國際評比的這個結果不管是經濟自由民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中所以院長你認為你就是交給﹖所以我現在想要\n210433\t214356\t在這四年來他們也有很好的密切溝通所以我想這個持續來發展一個復國黎民的政策一定會持續來進行\n231829\t257601\t我剛特別問到因為我們要很具體的一個回應到底留給我們的這個新的賴總統會是什麼我們先來問一下請問過去蔡總統這樣子的執行的八年當中我們執行的幾項死刑你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統我印象中是大概有執行過兩項兩次你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎我想這個目前\n259735\t287705\t沒有這樣的規劃而且很多的這些死刑案您比我還清楚嘛現在都在等待這一個大法官的釋憲院長這就是問題所在我剛特別提到你要留給什麼為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲做出答辯而且在未來不管在7月或在9月大法官做完釋憲之後呢其實不管如何你留給了我們的\n288285\t308404\t﹗\n308424\t312989\t我想請問,難道這些深省敵人你們是認為這些法官都是亂判嗎?\n312989\t324820\t我們台灣的民意是八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的。 我的重點在就是為什麼留下這些的攤子給我們的新任總統,你送了他38個死刑犯給他。\n325794\t330215\t時間點的問題而且我要特別強調如果Face是民進黨的一張神主牌我覺得就勇敢的把它說出來\n355680\t356221\t我還是要特別強調一下\n378280\t397149\t那留給我們的新政府是什麼?我想請問院長上面所提出的這些的法案包括他們的執法到底已經出了我們各部會了沒有?相關的執法各部會都有認真在訂定那有些的執法已經公佈有些還在進行當中應該是這樣\n398257\t404462\t所以是520之前有辦法把這些的修正的法案包括執法全部送到我們立法院來嗎?\n404462\t420757\t這可以以事負責嗎?這個我要再盤點一下因為你問到執法這個太細了。經濟部的那個災生人員管理條例的執法我們最近就會趕快確定。所以你們在520之前我剛剛所條例的這些的項目當中到底有多少項可以送到我們立法院來做審?\n421417\t447354\t這是一個對於你能源政策負責的一個表現喔?執法的部分是到立法院來做備案。那執法的部分我們最近最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分。是,我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案。那我要告訴大家就是說在520之前這些法案不送進來但是我們卻急著要來做電價的漲調。我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下。\n448775\t452717\t目前來說我們當然知道這個臺電我們即使是在2023年虧損我們補了500億但是呢他還是預估有1985億的虧損而且今年預估可能還會再繼續還要再虧損1000多億是不是這樣子\n465584\t483236\t是,原因就是因為這個國際燃料價格上漲嘛,那如果你講到所謂的綠電,它在我們所有現在發電的比例不高,那所以呢如果我們要看電價的高低呢,實際上要看現在佔大部分的燃氣跟燃煤的比例。\n483416\t507989\t有有有來來我們院長我們馬上的這馬上就有臺電的這個財報來了我們馬上就可以來做一些檢討了而且我覺得院長你不但的強調很多的部分大家問他為什麼會虧損你特別提到的惡霧戰爭我要提醒院長去年7月的時候惡霧戰爭已經開打了不過你在同樣的地方你告訴我們可能預估不會漲價這是你去年7月所特別提到的那我們來看看我們臺電的這個財報好了這個購入的這個所謂的電價裡面當中的確院長你所提到的\n513012\t535350\t﹏﹏\n535470\t560954\t你看看我們要達到這個配比不好意思2025我們所預定的50、30、20已經確定是跳票了因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到但是我們再來看看數據你看我們要如何達到這樣的配比即使已經跳票的2026來說的話我們的再生能源還要增加11%然後呢我們的燃煤要降低4我只想請問以這樣的配比來看的話以購入電力的價格來去看\n564155\t586869\t﹗\n587029\t587149\t您看﹖\n606209\t628141\t如果臺電的虧損問題我想請問一下因為我這跟臺電要資料他們說這是機密我不曉得機密在哪裡那目前為止我想請問院長你知不知道有關於我們要提到的這個離岸封店的這個問題目前中油投資40億然後臺電是67億超過何幾才差不多100多億然後目前已經受到這個行政院同意這是事實吧\n629431\t651563\t關於投資我們這些離岸風電的問題,我們討論…這個是經濟部這邊來決定,那目前還在走程序,那原則上我們會同意他來投資。那好了,那同意的話,那很多的相關的官員還指出來,我們投資風場內部的投資報酬力,就是IRR是非常穩定的,這也是一個事實吧,你所得到的訊息也是事實吧。那如果是這麼樣的穩定的話,那為什麼?\n654184\t660466\t我們還要拉這個八大行會做信用擔保呢?\n660466\t680673\t這個一定需要,這個不是只有臺灣,所有國家封廠的建制的部分,他一定都會需要這個臺灣的部分。 那如果說需要來做這樣的一個擔保的話,那我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼一個必要性。其實院長,我在第9任就擔任立法院委員,我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了,在這個示範封\n680913\t681774\t我告訴院長因為我們都談到科學。\n703092\t729922\t目前國外認為認為風機的可用率多到97%你才需要來下注投標這才是需要來做的保證的97%這是國外歐洲所有的部分都這樣可是我們現在目前為止的我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄只有56%各位我們在過去兩年當中只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些的標準大部分的時間來說我們風機的可用率是非常低的\n730622\t753302\t這麼低的狀況之下,我只能說這是一個事實。我們二十層從來沒有達過97%的這樣的一個風機的可用率。然後為什麼我們是獨步全球的低,代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。委員的這個數據我回去確認,但是我的理解應該跟我的理解是有落差的,應該不是這樣子。\n753902\t780618\t沒有我的理解97%是國外的一個訊息但是過去兩年過去24個月當中的確沒有達到這麼樣的標準而且你說民間的一個用電我必須要提醒一下在我們的這個我們的這個風電裡面第三期當中不管是來自於不同的國家德國的德國的萊茵再生能源他要宣布退出臺灣還有呢我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率\n781298\t809623\t還有更不要去講了丹麥最大的Don Energy他們也是在做很大的一個評估所以呢我只能說很多國的這個部分是紛紛退出而我們確實要如此的來投資這麼大這個是我們要特別提到的有競爭然後有一些沒有進來所以你講的日商日商有一個日商他確實退出但是另外一個日商加進來所以這個在不同的國家他對不同的風場\n811084\t828238\t我請求,我要求臺電做出這樣子的一個資料,而且趁著這個時間點,請院長可以責成他們在一個月之內給我相關的資料,可以讓我們多一點了解。因為我們必須要搞清楚這些的源頭,因為這是一個能源最大的一個問題。我不希望一個大的錢坑要...\n829349\t854677\t要我們的這些八大行戶來一起跳火坑這是我質詢最大的一個重點沒有問題我們可以提供給委員讓委員了解因為這個能源的問題是牽涉到未來我們電價這都是完全環環相扣的所以我也不希望這個能源的這些的問題留給我們的新任的總統還有一大堆的爛牌子不過這一個如果委員講中油台電這個投資案未來都是賣給民間的不是給台電賺夠都不是\n854957\t855917\t我可以回答一下嗎?\n855917\t856078\t可以\n876047\t877128\t97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候?\n902205\t925557\t可以,我們就好好地用科學論述,但是我要的資料沒有要到,所以院長趁這個時間幫我要到資料來去做。 這個才是一個真正的我們來互相做一個打變。 好,很好,在這個部分裡面,謝謝。我們接下來,下面一個,因為電費問題是大家非常重視的,下面一個我們來問一下,還是很多人關心的,這個詐騙的問題。 哎,院長,你有沒有看過,你曾經要送出很多人的書誒?\n927379\t941234\t您說你的臉也是被放上我們這個詐騙集團當中。 對啊,確實。對,不過你的運氣蠻好的,你都還沒有發生之前,我們刑事警察局已經幫你把他移除了,幫你打詐了。沒有,我想刑事警察局對於任何\n941715\t959036\t﹏﹏\n959256\t961477\t我相信政府有決心要來打仗但是到底成效怎麼樣\n988810\t995397\t蔡總統打擊詐欺的犯罪中心蘇院長也成立了打詐國家隊你成立了打詐辦公室\n999440\t1026884\t真的每個人都想打仗金額是越花越多然後打仗的技術就越來越高超這真的是生病生的所以到底這個打仗的成效到底如何你說有成效我們來解釋一下院長我還是提醒一下你認為說很有成效但是你要問你會提出數據但是人民的感受不是這個樣子喔你看你花了這麼多錢我現在幫你來整理一下打仗的人力就是不足嘛你看到嗎165的專線的基本是被打爆\n1027825\t1042622\t你們提到我們兩個層次來看,檢查的機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了670億就把你算得出來,而且打造中心的165,說實在的這個配備45個人而且一年接到43萬\n1045064\t1073149\t的電話平均每天大概是1184通而且每人平均接的快100通的電話。 這個人力我們再看下面一個這個你花了這麼多的錢比過去更多的錢但是你放在這個所謂的人力的部分裡面只佔6點多大部分都放在設備跟儀器但是我們需要聽到親自的人在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦可是你卻把整個的\n1073649\t1074389\t您現在看的是這一個\n1097657\t1098217\t我只是舉一個例子,你不要那麼敏感。\n1114904\t1143518\t好那院長你就提這個例子但是我只是強調這一個重點就是你人類的配人力的配比包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上前鋒的電話你已經爆掉165的人員已經爆掉了好不好還有還有院長我同意你啦我同意你就是說當我們有好的設備那我們的人力需要來禁用然後呢來加強然後讓用科技執法能夠來進行這個我們雙方來努力如果人力不足我們當然會來補充\n1144679\t1167939\t那什麼時候來補足?現在內政部長或法務部長都在你人力什麼時候補足?跟委員說明我們檢查人力需要檢察官助理那行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人今年還要撥150人所以我們會在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴來做好打詐的工作你的檢察官助理你的檢察單位裡面其實對你們是有非常多的\n1169300\t1181886\t不是,非常肯定,我們現在有增加的檢察官助理,成果非常好。檢察官助理的部分他們同樣沒有代替檢察官,他們只是在行政業務上面,畢竟他們還不是,所以他們只能在行政業務上面做一些擔擔。\n1197833\t1198914\t因為他是一個通緝犯,我們當然一定要引渡回來。\n1227616\t1240070\t現在還在偵辦當中所以問題是你不能否認很多時候你抓回的人的時候被你們法院又法官一一把他給放掉了所以院長你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下好我們來溝通但是我們尊重司法獨立啦我們會來跟法院不用\n1246858\t1260206\t不用急,我們會來跟司法院溝通,然後好好的跟他來協調。但是呢,我們絕對希望這一個詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰,讓他能夠有後續的作用。對,但是我們要尊重司法獨立。對,所以我們會協調溝通。\n1268951\t1269792\t我剛問你說要留下給我們這個新的總統是什麼?\n1269792\t1269872\t真的\n1294292\t1296814\t我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的\n1313968\t1335776\t議員﹗\n1336456\t1355948\t我想跟委員報告一下現在黑數比以前降低很多特別是我們165專線設了之後因為案件進來過去可能就像COVID-19一樣部長所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數你怎麼可以告訴我如何告訴我黑數是降低很多黑數就是看不到的數字啦那看不到數字你怎麼把它降低怎麼改變很多\n1356348\t1380165\t委員跟你報告因為就像COVID-19一樣過去可能確診他不報可是因為現在有充分的管道165的話他不只是可以這個報案他現在還可以這個這個我們變成是一個大數據所以現在165的專線像你剛剛在講這個通宿增加但是通宿增加對我們處理打炸的事情是有幫助因為才可以在最短的時間裡面把最新的這種\n1380905\t1396003\t我剛才特別提到我知道你們都有在努力但是很顯然這樣一個成效連我昨天都還繼續接到這個詐騙電話要拆我拆立法院的電錶真的把我給嚇到了所以這已經不是一個個案因為他是無差別的攻擊\n1396544\t1398165\t我們沒有舉白旗了。 我們很努力。\n1416220\t1416400\t有數位部,有。\n1431883\t1459903\t有有數位部有他是放在NCC之下面放在NCC下面的組織你去看他放在NCC下面我還幫院長你來看一下院長你不要這樣很無奈的微笑我告訴你我都是用科學數據來告訴你你看他是放在數位發展不是放在這個任務是配合NCC的組織條例下面他做了哪些事情幫電商上課督促業者做這個檢測還有包括這些這個做些鼓勵還是上課這不是我們數位部的一個標準\n1461604\t1488844\t部長上來了是可以回答嗎我們不只有協助NCC我們有協助金管會特別是在組詐跟賭詐這兩件事資訊流跟金流上我們都全力來配合部長你他們把這個條文裡面四個大的部會都放在前面你是附屬在NCC下面的那不會覺得委屈嗎你那不會覺得大家因為你是數位部沒有辦法在打仗裡面發揮一個所謂一定能力把你放在NCC下面讓你被感委屈嗎我都替你委屈了\n1489544\t1507135\t委員我們這個整個的那個圖啊你不要用這個圖看啦這個圖是市詐、主詐、賭詐跟懲詐有不同的主責的單位但是我們數位部實際上是跟這四個部分都有重要的情形都有幫助\n1507575\t1508535\t事詐、賭詐、主詐、懲詐都有關事務。\n1528041\t1542714\t市府把你認為是我們打炸當中的是最大的一個戰犯你剛好上來了我先問你 院長你對這件事情在他昨天在交通部被質詢市府認為在打炸的團體當中唐鳳是一個最需要被負責的第一號戰犯你怎麼樣看待我覺得\n1543234\t1544434\t我每一個部長、每一個部會的所長都做得不錯。\n1570499\t1593670\t那你的條件真的比我們這些民進黨委員來的寬容非常的多我覺得要看看哪一個item哪一個項目當然有一些某一個特定的工作上需要再改進再精進有但是整體他們的努力為民服務的這樣的一個用心我想我給他們都有很大的肯定感謝他們\n1594230\t1595451\t你不喜歡嗎?你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點?\n1620742\t1646374\t﹗﹗﹗﹗\n1646474\t1675086\t各位委員報告我們主責的部分包含電商客觀的來講之前這個分期付款解除詐騙等等但是最近5個月已經都沒有出現在165的高風險賣場客觀的來說我們主責的遊戲點數也大幅下降這個案件我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面的來登錄所以我想這些都是在我們主責的範圍裡面我們來幫助當然我想大家期望我做更多了就是網路上面的廣告平台業等等那這個我們也願意來主責\n1675731\t1701389\t對大家期望你更多但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了所以你目前只剩下74天的時間了所以在這目前剩下的時間你是否該給我們的新任總統上任之前可以讓我們在場的所有每一個人可以給我們新任總統上任之前給我們一個更好的一個打仗看得出最大一個成效的部分否則你們剛剛所調整的每一個事項對民眾來說的話其實感受度還是非常的低的\n1702116\t1730525\t其實我想在投資廣告上面大家所不希望看到的是同樣一個人他可以冒名稱好幾個名人那這個部分就是我們已經送到現在已經一讀交交委會的電子簽章法要解決的問題所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案電子簽章我沒有問題所以院長最後給你的一個時間當中我還是認為剩下74天的時間可以做的事情非常的多所以我剛剛所調列出來的包括在死刑犯部分的在事件的這個部分裡面這個時間點本席是有意見的第二個\n1730985\t1759134\t有關於我剛所要求的在這個電子價臺電裡面的虧損還有你所購入電力還有風潮的部分也請你能夠呈現去給我還有最重要的是人民認為應該要來在打造層面當中應該做好的這樣的一個工作不要一天到晚都告訴我做的有多好多好你說很多地方已經下架但是人民的被詐騙我剛才特別提出來了詐騙的比數很高黑數更高所以大家都是在比賽技術的層面如果人民沒有敢\n1759394\t1766613\t﹗\n1767241\t1789678\t對,所以我也一再的強調,我們現在的整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國立民的工作,然後在5月20能夠跟下一任的內閣能夠無縫的交接,然後把現在8年所做的這樣的一個好的成績能夠再繼續發揚光大,然後更能夠使得台灣更加的堅韌,更加的溫暖。\n1789838\t1790699\t你不用擔心,我們都會好好的來溝通,還有無縫接軌。\n1810370\t1811511\t謝謝柯委員之恩的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第49號陳穎委員質詢\n","txt":"好,我們謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請我們的陳院長。好,再請陳院長備詢。會員早安。恭喜你當選立委,而且祝你婦女節快樂。\n謝謝院長我想今天在所有立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過也很快樂但是還是要提醒我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友他們不管在薪資不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的這是非常重要的讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善\n是,那我想院長我們這蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺的一發不可收拾還有前者所發生的禁獄事件家屬是哭著回去然後路方的代表也說後果自負這麼一連串的事情可是我們的蔡總統他除了接見外賓之外目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話也一直神隱我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後蔡總統還有你還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎\n有。我們一向府院都有很密切的討論。那蔡總統講什麼?實際上我們很重要的就是對於這一個兩岸的溝通要繼續來加強。那這個金下水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署的這個合法執法的過程。謝謝。那個院長最主要的原因是因為蔡總統沒關係那個\n關主委我現在目前為止還有邱主委目前為止還不需要有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺謝謝好我現在就跟院長做因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話我只好透過你來做一個傳話這個部分來說的話那顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死每天是驚心膽跳的然後都睡不著我想不要誤解他的意思我了解但是他是很擔心這個態度是對的因為他擔心\n謝謝大家,非常謝謝。\n然後呢我只是要強調目前為止我們G520還有74天的時間很多的這個人都已經做好不同的一個心態我想請問院長因為你是我們蔡總統的第一任副總統你同時也是最後一任的行政院長下台的身影要漂亮你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼你又會交什麼給我們的新任總統我想\n我可以回答了嗎?我想很重要的就是說在蔡總統執政這8年以來不管在國際的這個\n國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展防疫的成果上確實是全世界都有目共睹那不是我自己講的因為如果按照國際評比的這個結果不管是經濟自由民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中所以院長你認為你就是交給﹖所以我現在想要\n在這四年來他們也有很好的密切溝通所以我想這個持續來發展一個復國黎民的政策一定會持續來進行\n我剛特別問到因為我們要很具體的一個回應到底留給我們的這個新的賴總統會是什麼我們先來問一下請問過去蔡總統這樣子的執行的八年當中我們執行的幾項死刑你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統我印象中是大概有執行過兩項兩次你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎我想這個目前\n沒有這樣的規劃而且很多的這些死刑案您比我還清楚嘛現在都在等待這一個大法官的釋憲院長這就是問題所在我剛特別提到你要留給什麼為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲做出答辯而且在未來不管在7月或在9月大法官做完釋憲之後呢其實不管如何你留給了我們的\n﹗\n我想請問,難道這些深省敵人你們是認為這些法官都是亂判嗎?\n我們台灣的民意是八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的。 我的重點在就是為什麼留下這些的攤子給我們的新任總統,你送了他38個死刑犯給他。\n時間點的問題而且我要特別強調如果Face是民進黨的一張神主牌我覺得就勇敢的把它說出來\n我還是要特別強調一下\n那留給我們的新政府是什麼?我想請問院長上面所提出的這些的法案包括他們的執法到底已經出了我們各部會了沒有?相關的執法各部會都有認真在訂定那有些的執法已經公佈有些還在進行當中應該是這樣\n所以是520之前有辦法把這些的修正的法案包括執法全部送到我們立法院來嗎?\n這可以以事負責嗎?這個我要再盤點一下因為你問到執法這個太細了。經濟部的那個災生人員管理條例的執法我們最近就會趕快確定。所以你們在520之前我剛剛所條例的這些的項目當中到底有多少項可以送到我們立法院來做審?\n這是一個對於你能源政策負責的一個表現喔?執法的部分是到立法院來做備案。那執法的部分我們最近最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分。是,我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案。那我要告訴大家就是說在520之前這些法案不送進來但是我們卻急著要來做電價的漲調。我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下。\n目前來說我們當然知道這個臺電我們即使是在2023年虧損我們補了500億但是呢他還是預估有1985億的虧損而且今年預估可能還會再繼續還要再虧損1000多億是不是這樣子\n是,原因就是因為這個國際燃料價格上漲嘛,那如果你講到所謂的綠電,它在我們所有現在發電的比例不高,那所以呢如果我們要看電價的高低呢,實際上要看現在佔大部分的燃氣跟燃煤的比例。\n有有有來來我們院長我們馬上的這馬上就有臺電的這個財報來了我們馬上就可以來做一些檢討了而且我覺得院長你不但的強調很多的部分大家問他為什麼會虧損你特別提到的惡霧戰爭我要提醒院長去年7月的時候惡霧戰爭已經開打了不過你在同樣的地方你告訴我們可能預估不會漲價這是你去年7月所特別提到的那我們來看看我們臺電的這個財報好了這個購入的這個所謂的電價裡面當中的確院長你所提到的\n﹏﹏\n你看看我們要達到這個配比不好意思2025我們所預定的50、30、20已經確定是跳票了因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到但是我們再來看看數據你看我們要如何達到這樣的配比即使已經跳票的2026來說的話我們的再生能源還要增加11%然後呢我們的燃煤要降低4我只想請問以這樣的配比來看的話以購入電力的價格來去看\n﹗\n您看﹖\n如果臺電的虧損問題我想請問一下因為我這跟臺電要資料他們說這是機密我不曉得機密在哪裡那目前為止我想請問院長你知不知道有關於我們要提到的這個離岸封店的這個問題目前中油投資40億然後臺電是67億超過何幾才差不多100多億然後目前已經受到這個行政院同意這是事實吧\n關於投資我們這些離岸風電的問題,我們討論…這個是經濟部這邊來決定,那目前還在走程序,那原則上我們會同意他來投資。那好了,那同意的話,那很多的相關的官員還指出來,我們投資風場內部的投資報酬力,就是IRR是非常穩定的,這也是一個事實吧,你所得到的訊息也是事實吧。那如果是這麼樣的穩定的話,那為什麼?\n我們還要拉這個八大行會做信用擔保呢?\n這個一定需要,這個不是只有臺灣,所有國家封廠的建制的部分,他一定都會需要這個臺灣的部分。 那如果說需要來做這樣的一個擔保的話,那我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼一個必要性。其實院長,我在第9任就擔任立法院委員,我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了,在這個示範封\n我告訴院長因為我們都談到科學。\n目前國外認為認為風機的可用率多到97%你才需要來下注投標這才是需要來做的保證的97%這是國外歐洲所有的部分都這樣可是我們現在目前為止的我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄只有56%各位我們在過去兩年當中只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些的標準大部分的時間來說我們風機的可用率是非常低的\n這麼低的狀況之下,我只能說這是一個事實。我們二十層從來沒有達過97%的這樣的一個風機的可用率。然後為什麼我們是獨步全球的低,代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。委員的這個數據我回去確認,但是我的理解應該跟我的理解是有落差的,應該不是這樣子。\n沒有我的理解97%是國外的一個訊息但是過去兩年過去24個月當中的確沒有達到這麼樣的標準而且你說民間的一個用電我必須要提醒一下在我們的這個我們的這個風電裡面第三期當中不管是來自於不同的國家德國的德國的萊茵再生能源他要宣布退出臺灣還有呢我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率\n還有更不要去講了丹麥最大的Don Energy他們也是在做很大的一個評估所以呢我只能說很多國的這個部分是紛紛退出而我們確實要如此的來投資這麼大這個是我們要特別提到的有競爭然後有一些沒有進來所以你講的日商日商有一個日商他確實退出但是另外一個日商加進來所以這個在不同的國家他對不同的風場\n我請求,我要求臺電做出這樣子的一個資料,而且趁著這個時間點,請院長可以責成他們在一個月之內給我相關的資料,可以讓我們多一點了解。因為我們必須要搞清楚這些的源頭,因為這是一個能源最大的一個問題。我不希望一個大的錢坑要...\n要我們的這些八大行戶來一起跳火坑這是我質詢最大的一個重點沒有問題我們可以提供給委員讓委員了解因為這個能源的問題是牽涉到未來我們電價這都是完全環環相扣的所以我也不希望這個能源的這些的問題留給我們的新任的總統還有一大堆的爛牌子不過這一個如果委員講中油台電這個投資案未來都是賣給民間的不是給台電賺夠都不是\n我可以回答一下嗎?\n可以\n97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候?\n可以,我們就好好地用科學論述,但是我要的資料沒有要到,所以院長趁這個時間幫我要到資料來去做。 這個才是一個真正的我們來互相做一個打變。 好,很好,在這個部分裡面,謝謝。我們接下來,下面一個,因為電費問題是大家非常重視的,下面一個我們來問一下,還是很多人關心的,這個詐騙的問題。 哎,院長,你有沒有看過,你曾經要送出很多人的書誒?\n您說你的臉也是被放上我們這個詐騙集團當中。 對啊,確實。對,不過你的運氣蠻好的,你都還沒有發生之前,我們刑事警察局已經幫你把他移除了,幫你打詐了。沒有,我想刑事警察局對於任何\n﹏﹏\n我相信政府有決心要來打仗但是到底成效怎麼樣\n蔡總統打擊詐欺的犯罪中心蘇院長也成立了打詐國家隊你成立了打詐辦公室\n真的每個人都想打仗金額是越花越多然後打仗的技術就越來越高超這真的是生病生的所以到底這個打仗的成效到底如何你說有成效我們來解釋一下院長我還是提醒一下你認為說很有成效但是你要問你會提出數據但是人民的感受不是這個樣子喔你看你花了這麼多錢我現在幫你來整理一下打仗的人力就是不足嘛你看到嗎165的專線的基本是被打爆\n你們提到我們兩個層次來看,檢查的機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了670億就把你算得出來,而且打造中心的165,說實在的這個配備45個人而且一年接到43萬\n的電話平均每天大概是1184通而且每人平均接的快100通的電話。 這個人力我們再看下面一個這個你花了這麼多的錢比過去更多的錢但是你放在這個所謂的人力的部分裡面只佔6點多大部分都放在設備跟儀器但是我們需要聽到親自的人在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦可是你卻把整個的\n您現在看的是這一個\n我只是舉一個例子,你不要那麼敏感。\n好那院長你就提這個例子但是我只是強調這一個重點就是你人類的配人力的配比包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上前鋒的電話你已經爆掉165的人員已經爆掉了好不好還有還有院長我同意你啦我同意你就是說當我們有好的設備那我們的人力需要來禁用然後呢來加強然後讓用科技執法能夠來進行這個我們雙方來努力如果人力不足我們當然會來補充\n那什麼時候來補足?現在內政部長或法務部長都在你人力什麼時候補足?跟委員說明我們檢查人力需要檢察官助理那行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人今年還要撥150人所以我們會在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴來做好打詐的工作你的檢察官助理你的檢察單位裡面其實對你們是有非常多的\n不是,非常肯定,我們現在有增加的檢察官助理,成果非常好。檢察官助理的部分他們同樣沒有代替檢察官,他們只是在行政業務上面,畢竟他們還不是,所以他們只能在行政業務上面做一些擔擔。\n因為他是一個通緝犯,我們當然一定要引渡回來。\n現在還在偵辦當中所以問題是你不能否認很多時候你抓回的人的時候被你們法院又法官一一把他給放掉了所以院長你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下好我們來溝通但是我們尊重司法獨立啦我們會來跟法院不用\n不用急,我們會來跟司法院溝通,然後好好的跟他來協調。但是呢,我們絕對希望這一個詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰,讓他能夠有後續的作用。對,但是我們要尊重司法獨立。對,所以我們會協調溝通。\n我剛問你說要留下給我們這個新的總統是什麼?\n真的\n我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的\n議員﹗\n我想跟委員報告一下現在黑數比以前降低很多特別是我們165專線設了之後因為案件進來過去可能就像COVID-19一樣部長所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數你怎麼可以告訴我如何告訴我黑數是降低很多黑數就是看不到的數字啦那看不到數字你怎麼把它降低怎麼改變很多\n委員跟你報告因為就像COVID-19一樣過去可能確診他不報可是因為現在有充分的管道165的話他不只是可以這個報案他現在還可以這個這個我們變成是一個大數據所以現在165的專線像你剛剛在講這個通宿增加但是通宿增加對我們處理打炸的事情是有幫助因為才可以在最短的時間裡面把最新的這種\n我剛才特別提到我知道你們都有在努力但是很顯然這樣一個成效連我昨天都還繼續接到這個詐騙電話要拆我拆立法院的電錶真的把我給嚇到了所以這已經不是一個個案因為他是無差別的攻擊\n我們沒有舉白旗了。 我們很努力。\n有數位部,有。\n有有數位部有他是放在NCC之下面放在NCC下面的組織你去看他放在NCC下面我還幫院長你來看一下院長你不要這樣很無奈的微笑我告訴你我都是用科學數據來告訴你你看他是放在數位發展不是放在這個任務是配合NCC的組織條例下面他做了哪些事情幫電商上課督促業者做這個檢測還有包括這些這個做些鼓勵還是上課這不是我們數位部的一個標準\n部長上來了是可以回答嗎我們不只有協助NCC我們有協助金管會特別是在組詐跟賭詐這兩件事資訊流跟金流上我們都全力來配合部長你他們把這個條文裡面四個大的部會都放在前面你是附屬在NCC下面的那不會覺得委屈嗎你那不會覺得大家因為你是數位部沒有辦法在打仗裡面發揮一個所謂一定能力把你放在NCC下面讓你被感委屈嗎我都替你委屈了\n委員我們這個整個的那個圖啊你不要用這個圖看啦這個圖是市詐、主詐、賭詐跟懲詐有不同的主責的單位但是我們數位部實際上是跟這四個部分都有重要的情形都有幫助\n事詐、賭詐、主詐、懲詐都有關事務。\n市府把你認為是我們打炸當中的是最大的一個戰犯你剛好上來了我先問你 院長你對這件事情在他昨天在交通部被質詢市府認為在打炸的團體當中唐鳳是一個最需要被負責的第一號戰犯你怎麼樣看待我覺得\n我每一個部長、每一個部會的所長都做得不錯。\n那你的條件真的比我們這些民進黨委員來的寬容非常的多我覺得要看看哪一個item哪一個項目當然有一些某一個特定的工作上需要再改進再精進有但是整體他們的努力為民服務的這樣的一個用心我想我給他們都有很大的肯定感謝他們\n你不喜歡嗎?你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點?\n﹗﹗﹗﹗\n各位委員報告我們主責的部分包含電商客觀的來講之前這個分期付款解除詐騙等等但是最近5個月已經都沒有出現在165的高風險賣場客觀的來說我們主責的遊戲點數也大幅下降這個案件我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面的來登錄所以我想這些都是在我們主責的範圍裡面我們來幫助當然我想大家期望我做更多了就是網路上面的廣告平台業等等那這個我們也願意來主責\n對大家期望你更多但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了所以你目前只剩下74天的時間了所以在這目前剩下的時間你是否該給我們的新任總統上任之前可以讓我們在場的所有每一個人可以給我們新任總統上任之前給我們一個更好的一個打仗看得出最大一個成效的部分否則你們剛剛所調整的每一個事項對民眾來說的話其實感受度還是非常的低的\n其實我想在投資廣告上面大家所不希望看到的是同樣一個人他可以冒名稱好幾個名人那這個部分就是我們已經送到現在已經一讀交交委會的電子簽章法要解決的問題所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案電子簽章我沒有問題所以院長最後給你的一個時間當中我還是認為剩下74天的時間可以做的事情非常的多所以我剛剛所調列出來的包括在死刑犯部分的在事件的這個部分裡面這個時間點本席是有意見的第二個\n有關於我剛所要求的在這個電子價臺電裡面的虧損還有你所購入電力還有風潮的部分也請你能夠呈現去給我還有最重要的是人民認為應該要來在打造層面當中應該做好的這樣的一個工作不要一天到晚都告訴我做的有多好多好你說很多地方已經下架但是人民的被詐騙我剛才特別提出來了詐騙的比數很高黑數更高所以大家都是在比賽技術的層面如果人民沒有敢\n﹗\n對,所以我也一再的強調,我們現在的整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國立民的工作,然後在5月20能夠跟下一任的內閣能夠無縫的交接,然後把現在8年所做的這樣的一個好的成績能夠再繼續發揚光大,然後更能夠使得台灣更加的堅韌,更加的溫暖。\n你不用擔心,我們都會好好的來溝通,還有無縫接軌。\n謝謝柯委員之恩的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第49號陳穎委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.875 --> 00:23.864\n好,我們謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請我們的陳院長。好,再請陳院長備詢。會員早安。恭喜你當選立委,而且祝你婦女節快樂。\n\n00:25.661 --> 00:45.362\n謝謝院長我想今天在所有立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過也很快樂但是還是要提醒我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友他們不管在薪資不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的這是非常重要的讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善\n\n00:45.762 --> 01:14.742\n是,那我想院長我們這蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺的一發不可收拾還有前者所發生的禁獄事件家屬是哭著回去然後路方的代表也說後果自負這麼一連串的事情可是我們的蔡總統他除了接見外賓之外目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話也一直神隱我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後蔡總統還有你還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎\n\n01:15.683 --> 01:39.155\n有。我們一向府院都有很密切的討論。那蔡總統講什麼?實際上我們很重要的就是對於這一個兩岸的溝通要繼續來加強。那這個金下水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署的這個合法執法的過程。謝謝。那個院長最主要的原因是因為蔡總統沒關係那個\n\n01:40.936 --> 02:08.578\n關主委我現在目前為止還有邱主委目前為止還不需要有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺謝謝好我現在就跟院長做因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話我只好透過你來做一個傳話這個部分來說的話那顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死每天是驚心膽跳的然後都睡不著我想不要誤解他的意思我了解但是他是很擔心這個態度是對的因為他擔心\n\n02:09.699 --> 02:10.119\n謝謝大家,非常謝謝。\n\n02:34.218 --> 02:57.515\n然後呢我只是要強調目前為止我們G520還有74天的時間很多的這個人都已經做好不同的一個心態我想請問院長因為你是我們蔡總統的第一任副總統你同時也是最後一任的行政院長下台的身影要漂亮你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼你又會交什麼給我們的新任總統我想\n\n03:00.199 --> 03:06.147\n我可以回答了嗎?我想很重要的就是說在蔡總統執政這8年以來不管在國際的這個\n\n03:09.051 --> 03:29.993\n國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展防疫的成果上確實是全世界都有目共睹那不是我自己講的因為如果按照國際評比的這個結果不管是經濟自由民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中所以院長你認為你就是交給﹖所以我現在想要\n\n03:30.433 --> 03:34.356\n在這四年來他們也有很好的密切溝通所以我想這個持續來發展一個復國黎民的政策一定會持續來進行\n\n03:51.829 --> 04:17.601\n我剛特別問到因為我們要很具體的一個回應到底留給我們的這個新的賴總統會是什麼我們先來問一下請問過去蔡總統這樣子的執行的八年當中我們執行的幾項死刑你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統我印象中是大概有執行過兩項兩次你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎我想這個目前\n\n04:19.735 --> 04:47.705\n沒有這樣的規劃而且很多的這些死刑案您比我還清楚嘛現在都在等待這一個大法官的釋憲院長這就是問題所在我剛特別提到你要留給什麼為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲做出答辯而且在未來不管在7月或在9月大法官做完釋憲之後呢其實不管如何你留給了我們的\n\n05:08.424 --> 05:12.989\n我想請問,難道這些深省敵人你們是認為這些法官都是亂判嗎?\n\n05:12.989 --> 05:24.820\n我們台灣的民意是八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的。我的重點在就是為什麼留下這些的攤子給我們的新任總統,你送了他38個死刑犯給他。\n\n05:25.794 --> 05:30.215\n時間點的問題而且我要特別強調如果Face是民進黨的一張神主牌我覺得就勇敢的把它說出來\n\n05:55.680 --> 05:56.221\n我還是要特別強調一下\n\n06:18.280 --> 06:37.149\n那留給我們的新政府是什麼?我想請問院長上面所提出的這些的法案包括他們的執法到底已經出了我們各部會了沒有?相關的執法各部會都有認真在訂定那有些的執法已經公佈有些還在進行當中應該是這樣\n\n06:38.257 --> 06:44.462\n所以是520之前有辦法把這些的修正的法案包括執法全部送到我們立法院來嗎?\n\n06:44.462 --> 07:00.757\n這可以以事負責嗎?這個我要再盤點一下因為你問到執法這個太細了。經濟部的那個災生人員管理條例的執法我們最近就會趕快確定。所以你們在520之前我剛剛所條例的這些的項目當中到底有多少項可以送到我們立法院來做審?\n\n07:01.417 --> 07:27.354\n這是一個對於你能源政策負責的一個表現喔?執法的部分是到立法院來做備案。那執法的部分我們最近最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分。是,我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案。那我要告訴大家就是說在520之前這些法案不送進來但是我們卻急著要來做電價的漲調。我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下。\n\n07:28.775 --> 07:32.717\n目前來說我們當然知道這個臺電我們即使是在2023年虧損我們補了500億但是呢他還是預估有1985億的虧損而且今年預估可能還會再繼續還要再虧損1000多億是不是這樣子\n\n07:45.584 --> 08:03.236\n是,原因就是因為這個國際燃料價格上漲嘛,那如果你講到所謂的綠電,它在我們所有現在發電的比例不高,那所以呢如果我們要看電價的高低呢,實際上要看現在佔大部分的燃氣跟燃煤的比例。\n\n08:03.416 --> 08:27.989\n有有有來來我們院長我們馬上的這馬上就有臺電的這個財報來了我們馬上就可以來做一些檢討了而且我覺得院長你不但的強調很多的部分大家問他為什麼會虧損你特別提到的惡霧戰爭我要提醒院長去年7月的時候惡霧戰爭已經開打了不過你在同樣的地方你告訴我們可能預估不會漲價這是你去年7月所特別提到的那我們來看看我們臺電的這個財報好了這個購入的這個所謂的電價裡面當中的確院長你所提到的\n\n08:55.470 --> 09:20.954\n你看看我們要達到這個配比不好意思2025我們所預定的50、30、20已經確定是跳票了因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到但是我們再來看看數據你看我們要如何達到這樣的配比即使已經跳票的2026來說的話我們的再生能源還要增加11%然後呢我們的燃煤要降低4我只想請問以這樣的配比來看的話以購入電力的價格來去看\n\n09:47.029 --> 09:47.149\n您看﹖\n\n10:06.209 --> 10:28.141\n如果臺電的虧損問題我想請問一下因為我這跟臺電要資料他們說這是機密我不曉得機密在哪裡那目前為止我想請問院長你知不知道有關於我們要提到的這個離岸封店的這個問題目前中油投資40億然後臺電是67億超過何幾才差不多100多億然後目前已經受到這個行政院同意這是事實吧\n\n10:29.431 --> 10:51.563\n關於投資我們這些離岸風電的問題,我們討論…這個是經濟部這邊來決定,那目前還在走程序,那原則上我們會同意他來投資。那好了,那同意的話,那很多的相關的官員還指出來,我們投資風場內部的投資報酬力,就是IRR是非常穩定的,這也是一個事實吧,你所得到的訊息也是事實吧。那如果是這麼樣的穩定的話,那為什麼?\n\n10:54.184 --> 11:00.466\n我們還要拉這個八大行會做信用擔保呢?\n\n11:00.466 --> 11:20.673\n這個一定需要,這個不是只有臺灣,所有國家封廠的建制的部分,他一定都會需要這個臺灣的部分。那如果說需要來做這樣的一個擔保的話,那我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼一個必要性。其實院長,我在第9任就擔任立法院委員,我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了,在這個示範封\n\n11:20.913 --> 11:21.774\n我告訴院長因為我們都談到科學。\n\n11:43.092 --> 12:09.922\n目前國外認為認為風機的可用率多到97%你才需要來下注投標這才是需要來做的保證的97%這是國外歐洲所有的部分都這樣可是我們現在目前為止的我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄只有56%各位我們在過去兩年當中只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些的標準大部分的時間來說我們風機的可用率是非常低的\n\n12:10.622 --> 12:33.302\n這麼低的狀況之下,我只能說這是一個事實。我們二十層從來沒有達過97%的這樣的一個風機的可用率。然後為什麼我們是獨步全球的低,代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。委員的這個數據我回去確認,但是我的理解應該跟我的理解是有落差的,應該不是這樣子。\n\n12:33.902 --> 13:00.618\n沒有我的理解97%是國外的一個訊息但是過去兩年過去24個月當中的確沒有達到這麼樣的標準而且你說民間的一個用電我必須要提醒一下在我們的這個我們的這個風電裡面第三期當中不管是來自於不同的國家德國的德國的萊茵再生能源他要宣布退出臺灣還有呢我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率\n\n13:01.298 --> 13:29.623\n還有更不要去講了丹麥最大的DonEnergy他們也是在做很大的一個評估所以呢我只能說很多國的這個部分是紛紛退出而我們確實要如此的來投資這麼大這個是我們要特別提到的有競爭然後有一些沒有進來所以你講的日商日商有一個日商他確實退出但是另外一個日商加進來所以這個在不同的國家他對不同的風場\n\n13:31.084 --> 13:48.238\n我請求,我要求臺電做出這樣子的一個資料,而且趁著這個時間點,請院長可以責成他們在一個月之內給我相關的資料,可以讓我們多一點了解。因為我們必須要搞清楚這些的源頭,因為這是一個能源最大的一個問題。我不希望一個大的錢坑要...\n\n13:49.349 --> 14:14.677\n要我們的這些八大行戶來一起跳火坑這是我質詢最大的一個重點沒有問題我們可以提供給委員讓委員了解因為這個能源的問題是牽涉到未來我們電價這都是完全環環相扣的所以我也不希望這個能源的這些的問題留給我們的新任的總統還有一大堆的爛牌子不過這一個如果委員講中油台電這個投資案未來都是賣給民間的不是給台電賺夠都不是\n\n14:14.957 --> 14:15.917\n我可以回答一下嗎?\n\n14:15.917 --> 14:16.078\n可以\n\n14:36.047 --> 14:37.128\n97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候?\n\n15:02.205 --> 15:25.557\n可以,我們就好好地用科學論述,但是我要的資料沒有要到,所以院長趁這個時間幫我要到資料來去做。這個才是一個真正的我們來互相做一個打變。好,很好,在這個部分裡面,謝謝。我們接下來,下面一個,因為電費問題是大家非常重視的,下面一個我們來問一下,還是很多人關心的,這個詐騙的問題。哎,院長,你有沒有看過,你曾經要送出很多人的書誒?\n\n15:27.379 --> 15:41.234\n您說你的臉也是被放上我們這個詐騙集團當中。對啊,確實。對,不過你的運氣蠻好的,你都還沒有發生之前,我們刑事警察局已經幫你把他移除了,幫你打詐了。沒有,我想刑事警察局對於任何\n\n15:59.256 --> 16:01.477\n我相信政府有決心要來打仗但是到底成效怎麼樣\n\n16:28.810 --> 16:35.397\n蔡總統打擊詐欺的犯罪中心蘇院長也成立了打詐國家隊你成立了打詐辦公室\n\n16:39.440 --> 17:06.884\n真的每個人都想打仗金額是越花越多然後打仗的技術就越來越高超這真的是生病生的所以到底這個打仗的成效到底如何你說有成效我們來解釋一下院長我還是提醒一下你認為說很有成效但是你要問你會提出數據但是人民的感受不是這個樣子喔你看你花了這麼多錢我現在幫你來整理一下打仗的人力就是不足嘛你看到嗎165的專線的基本是被打爆\n\n17:07.825 --> 17:22.622\n你們提到我們兩個層次來看,檢查的機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了670億就把你算得出來,而且打造中心的165,說實在的這個配備45個人而且一年接到43萬\n\n17:25.064 --> 17:53.149\n的電話平均每天大概是1184通而且每人平均接的快100通的電話。這個人力我們再看下面一個這個你花了這麼多的錢比過去更多的錢但是你放在這個所謂的人力的部分裡面只佔6點多大部分都放在設備跟儀器但是我們需要聽到親自的人在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦可是你卻把整個的\n\n17:53.649 --> 17:54.389\n您現在看的是這一個\n\n18:17.657 --> 18:18.217\n我只是舉一個例子,你不要那麼敏感。\n\n18:34.904 --> 19:03.518\n好那院長你就提這個例子但是我只是強調這一個重點就是你人類的配人力的配比包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上前鋒的電話你已經爆掉165的人員已經爆掉了好不好還有還有院長我同意你啦我同意你就是說當我們有好的設備那我們的人力需要來禁用然後呢來加強然後讓用科技執法能夠來進行這個我們雙方來努力如果人力不足我們當然會來補充\n\n19:04.679 --> 19:27.939\n那什麼時候來補足?現在內政部長或法務部長都在你人力什麼時候補足?跟委員說明我們檢查人力需要檢察官助理那行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人今年還要撥150人所以我們會在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴來做好打詐的工作你的檢察官助理你的檢察單位裡面其實對你們是有非常多的\n\n19:29.300 --> 19:41.886\n不是,非常肯定,我們現在有增加的檢察官助理,成果非常好。檢察官助理的部分他們同樣沒有代替檢察官,他們只是在行政業務上面,畢竟他們還不是,所以他們只能在行政業務上面做一些擔擔。\n\n19:57.833 --> 19:58.914\n因為他是一個通緝犯,我們當然一定要引渡回來。\n\n20:27.616 --> 20:40.070\n現在還在偵辦當中所以問題是你不能否認很多時候你抓回的人的時候被你們法院又法官一一把他給放掉了所以院長你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下好我們來溝通但是我們尊重司法獨立啦我們會來跟法院不用\n\n20:46.858 --> 21:00.206\n不用急,我們會來跟司法院溝通,然後好好的跟他來協調。但是呢,我們絕對希望這一個詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰,讓他能夠有後續的作用。對,但是我們要尊重司法獨立。對,所以我們會協調溝通。\n\n21:08.951 --> 21:09.792\n我剛問你說要留下給我們這個新的總統是什麼?\n\n21:09.792 --> 21:09.872\n真的\n\n21:34.292 --> 21:36.814\n我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的\n\n22:16.456 --> 22:35.948\n我想跟委員報告一下現在黑數比以前降低很多特別是我們165專線設了之後因為案件進來過去可能就像COVID-19一樣部長所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數你怎麼可以告訴我如何告訴我黑數是降低很多黑數就是看不到的數字啦那看不到數字你怎麼把它降低怎麼改變很多\n\n22:36.348 --> 23:00.165\n委員跟你報告因為就像COVID-19一樣過去可能確診他不報可是因為現在有充分的管道165的話他不只是可以這個報案他現在還可以這個這個我們變成是一個大數據所以現在165的專線像你剛剛在講這個通宿增加但是通宿增加對我們處理打炸的事情是有幫助因為才可以在最短的時間裡面把最新的這種\n\n23:00.905 --> 23:16.003\n我剛才特別提到我知道你們都有在努力但是很顯然這樣一個成效連我昨天都還繼續接到這個詐騙電話要拆我拆立法院的電錶真的把我給嚇到了所以這已經不是一個個案因為他是無差別的攻擊\n\n23:16.544 --> 23:18.165\n我們沒有舉白旗了。我們很努力。\n\n23:36.220 --> 23:36.400\n有數位部,有。\n\n23:51.883 --> 24:19.903\n有有數位部有他是放在NCC之下面放在NCC下面的組織你去看他放在NCC下面我還幫院長你來看一下院長你不要這樣很無奈的微笑我告訴你我都是用科學數據來告訴你你看他是放在數位發展不是放在這個任務是配合NCC的組織條例下面他做了哪些事情幫電商上課督促業者做這個檢測還有包括這些這個做些鼓勵還是上課這不是我們數位部的一個標準\n\n24:21.604 --> 24:48.844\n部長上來了是可以回答嗎我們不只有協助NCC我們有協助金管會特別是在組詐跟賭詐這兩件事資訊流跟金流上我們都全力來配合部長你他們把這個條文裡面四個大的部會都放在前面你是附屬在NCC下面的那不會覺得委屈嗎你那不會覺得大家因為你是數位部沒有辦法在打仗裡面發揮一個所謂一定能力把你放在NCC下面讓你被感委屈嗎我都替你委屈了\n\n24:49.544 --> 25:07.135\n委員我們這個整個的那個圖啊你不要用這個圖看啦這個圖是市詐、主詐、賭詐跟懲詐有不同的主責的單位但是我們數位部實際上是跟這四個部分都有重要的情形都有幫助\n\n25:07.575 --> 25:08.535\n事詐、賭詐、主詐、懲詐都有關事務。\n\n25:28.041 --> 25:42.714\n市府把你認為是我們打炸當中的是最大的一個戰犯你剛好上來了我先問你院長你對這件事情在他昨天在交通部被質詢市府認為在打炸的團體當中唐鳳是一個最需要被負責的第一號戰犯你怎麼樣看待我覺得\n\n25:43.234 --> 25:44.434\n我每一個部長、每一個部會的所長都做得不錯。\n\n26:10.499 --> 26:33.670\n那你的條件真的比我們這些民進黨委員來的寬容非常的多我覺得要看看哪一個item哪一個項目當然有一些某一個特定的工作上需要再改進再精進有但是整體他們的努力為民服務的這樣的一個用心我想我給他們都有很大的肯定感謝他們\n\n26:34.230 --> 26:35.451\n你不喜歡嗎?你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點?\n\n27:26.474 --> 27:55.086\n各位委員報告我們主責的部分包含電商客觀的來講之前這個分期付款解除詐騙等等但是最近5個月已經都沒有出現在165的高風險賣場客觀的來說我們主責的遊戲點數也大幅下降這個案件我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面的來登錄所以我想這些都是在我們主責的範圍裡面我們來幫助當然我想大家期望我做更多了就是網路上面的廣告平台業等等那這個我們也願意來主責\n\n27:55.731 --> 28:21.389\n對大家期望你更多但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了所以你目前只剩下74天的時間了所以在這目前剩下的時間你是否該給我們的新任總統上任之前可以讓我們在場的所有每一個人可以給我們新任總統上任之前給我們一個更好的一個打仗看得出最大一個成效的部分否則你們剛剛所調整的每一個事項對民眾來說的話其實感受度還是非常的低的\n\n28:22.116 --> 28:50.525\n其實我想在投資廣告上面大家所不希望看到的是同樣一個人他可以冒名稱好幾個名人那這個部分就是我們已經送到現在已經一讀交交委會的電子簽章法要解決的問題所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案電子簽章我沒有問題所以院長最後給你的一個時間當中我還是認為剩下74天的時間可以做的事情非常的多所以我剛剛所調列出來的包括在死刑犯部分的在事件的這個部分裡面這個時間點本席是有意見的第二個\n\n28:50.985 --> 29:19.134\n有關於我剛所要求的在這個電子價臺電裡面的虧損還有你所購入電力還有風潮的部分也請你能夠呈現去給我還有最重要的是人民認為應該要來在打造層面當中應該做好的這樣的一個工作不要一天到晚都告訴我做的有多好多好你說很多地方已經下架但是人民的被詐騙我剛才特別提出來了詐騙的比數很高黑數更高所以大家都是在比賽技術的層面如果人民沒有敢\n\n29:27.241 --> 29:49.678\n對,所以我也一再的強調,我們現在的整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國立民的工作,然後在5月20能夠跟下一任的內閣能夠無縫的交接,然後把現在8年所做的這樣的一個好的成績能夠再繼續發揚光大,然後更能夠使得台灣更加的堅韌,更加的溫暖。\n\n29:49.838 --> 29:50.699\n你不用擔心,我們都會好好的來溝通,還有無縫接軌。\n\n30:10.370 --> 30:11.511\n謝謝柯委員之恩的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第49號陳穎委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.875,"end":23.864,"text":"好,我們謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請我們的陳院長。好,再請陳院長備詢。會員早安。恭喜你當選立委,而且祝你婦女節快樂。"},{"start":25.661,"end":45.362,"text":"謝謝院長我想今天在所有立法院裡面的女性都應該已經被祝福過也很快樂但是還是要提醒我們還有很多廣大的婦女勞工朋友他們不管在薪資不管在勞動時數上面是需要我們政府共同來協助他們的這是非常重要的讓婦女的工作條件還有工作環境都能夠改善"},{"start":45.762,"end":74.742,"text":"是,那我想院長我們這蘇丹紅的事件可以說是蔓延全臺的一發不可收拾還有前者所發生的禁獄事件家屬是哭著回去然後路方的代表也說後果自負這麼一連串的事情可是我們的蔡總統他除了接見外賓之外目前為止我們都沒有看到他跟社會對話也一直神隱我想請問3月5號談判破裂之後蔡總統還有你還有國安的高層有彼此對這一連串的事情做過一些討論嗎"},{"start":75.683,"end":99.155,"text":"有。我們一向府院都有很密切的討論。那蔡總統講什麼?實際上我們很重要的就是對於這一個兩岸的溝通要繼續來加強。那這個金下水域這個事件我們當然要來支持我們海巡署的這個合法執法的過程。謝謝。那個院長最主要的原因是因為蔡總統沒關係那個"},{"start":100.936,"end":128.578,"text":"關主委我現在目前為止還有邱主委目前為止還不需要有需要你們的話我會請你們上臺謝謝好我現在就跟院長做因為蔡總統都不跟我們對話我只好透過你來做一個傳話這個部分來說的話那顯然到目前為止整個事件看起來我只看到我們的國防部長每天就是嚇得要死每天是驚心膽跳的然後都睡不著我想不要誤解他的意思我了解但是他是很擔心這個態度是對的因為他擔心"},{"start":129.699,"end":130.119,"text":"謝謝大家,非常謝謝。"},{"start":154.218,"end":177.515,"text":"然後呢我只是要強調目前為止我們G520還有74天的時間很多的這個人都已經做好不同的一個心態我想請問院長因為你是我們蔡總統的第一任副總統你同時也是最後一任的行政院長下台的身影要漂亮你覺得你為蔡總統留下什麼你又會交什麼給我們的新任總統我想"},{"start":180.199,"end":186.147,"text":"我可以回答了嗎?我想很重要的就是說在蔡總統執政這8年以來不管在國際的這個"},{"start":189.051,"end":209.993,"text":"國防外交或者是相關的經濟發展防疫的成果上確實是全世界都有目共睹那不是我自己講的因為如果按照國際評比的這個結果不管是經濟自由民主指數或者是青年指數都是在進步當中所以院長你認為你就是交給﹖所以我現在想要"},{"start":210.433,"end":214.356,"text":"在這四年來他們也有很好的密切溝通所以我想這個持續來發展一個復國黎民的政策一定會持續來進行"},{"start":231.829,"end":257.601,"text":"我剛特別問到因為我們要很具體的一個回應到底留給我們的這個新的賴總統會是什麼我們先來問一下請問過去蔡總統這樣子的執行的八年當中我們執行的幾項死刑你準備把多少死刑犯交給我們的新任總統我印象中是大概有執行過兩項兩次你在520之前還會再執行死刑嗎我想這個目前"},{"start":259.735,"end":287.705,"text":"沒有這樣的規劃而且很多的這些死刑案您比我還清楚嘛現在都在等待這一個大法官的釋憲院長這就是問題所在我剛特別提到你要留給什麼為什麼執政8年卻要在4月23號才對於大法官的釋憲做出答辯而且在未來不管在7月或在9月大法官做完釋憲之後呢其實不管如何你留給了我們的"},{"start":288.285,"end":308.404,"text":"﹗"},{"start":308.424,"end":312.989,"text":"我想請問,難道這些深省敵人你們是認為這些法官都是亂判嗎?"},{"start":312.989,"end":324.82,"text":"我們台灣的民意是八成八是認為支持還要執行死刑的。 我的重點在就是為什麼留下這些的攤子給我們的新任總統,你送了他38個死刑犯給他。"},{"start":325.794,"end":330.215,"text":"時間點的問題而且我要特別強調如果Face是民進黨的一張神主牌我覺得就勇敢的把它說出來"},{"start":355.68,"end":356.221,"text":"我還是要特別強調一下"},{"start":378.28,"end":397.149,"text":"那留給我們的新政府是什麼?我想請問院長上面所提出的這些的法案包括他們的執法到底已經出了我們各部會了沒有?相關的執法各部會都有認真在訂定那有些的執法已經公佈有些還在進行當中應該是這樣"},{"start":398.257,"end":404.462,"text":"所以是520之前有辦法把這些的修正的法案包括執法全部送到我們立法院來嗎?"},{"start":404.462,"end":420.757,"text":"這可以以事負責嗎?這個我要再盤點一下因為你問到執法這個太細了。經濟部的那個災生人員管理條例的執法我們最近就會趕快確定。所以你們在520之前我剛剛所條例的這些的項目當中到底有多少項可以送到我們立法院來做審?"},{"start":421.417,"end":447.354,"text":"這是一個對於你能源政策負責的一個表現喔?執法的部分是到立法院來做備案。那執法的部分我們最近最主要是屋頂太陽光電的部分。是,我們非常關心有關於碳費收費的這些草案。那我要告訴大家就是說在520之前這些法案不送進來但是我們卻急著要來做電價的漲調。我覺得這部分是全民非常關切的。我先請問一下。"},{"start":448.775,"end":452.717,"text":"目前來說我們當然知道這個臺電我們即使是在2023年虧損我們補了500億但是呢他還是預估有1985億的虧損而且今年預估可能還會再繼續還要再虧損1000多億是不是這樣子"},{"start":465.584,"end":483.236,"text":"是,原因就是因為這個國際燃料價格上漲嘛,那如果你講到所謂的綠電,它在我們所有現在發電的比例不高,那所以呢如果我們要看電價的高低呢,實際上要看現在佔大部分的燃氣跟燃煤的比例。"},{"start":483.416,"end":507.989,"text":"有有有來來我們院長我們馬上的這馬上就有臺電的這個財報來了我們馬上就可以來做一些檢討了而且我覺得院長你不但的強調很多的部分大家問他為什麼會虧損你特別提到的惡霧戰爭我要提醒院長去年7月的時候惡霧戰爭已經開打了不過你在同樣的地方你告訴我們可能預估不會漲價這是你去年7月所特別提到的那我們來看看我們臺電的這個財報好了這個購入的這個所謂的電價裡面當中的確院長你所提到的"},{"start":513.012,"end":535.35,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":535.47,"end":560.954,"text":"你看看我們要達到這個配比不好意思2025我們所預定的50、30、20已經確定是跳票了因為我們的部長已經說2026年才有機會達到但是我們再來看看數據你看我們要如何達到這樣的配比即使已經跳票的2026來說的話我們的再生能源還要增加11%然後呢我們的燃煤要降低4我只想請問以這樣的配比來看的話以購入電力的價格來去看"},{"start":564.155,"end":586.869,"text":"﹗"},{"start":587.029,"end":587.149,"text":"您看﹖"},{"start":606.209,"end":628.141,"text":"如果臺電的虧損問題我想請問一下因為我這跟臺電要資料他們說這是機密我不曉得機密在哪裡那目前為止我想請問院長你知不知道有關於我們要提到的這個離岸封店的這個問題目前中油投資40億然後臺電是67億超過何幾才差不多100多億然後目前已經受到這個行政院同意這是事實吧"},{"start":629.431,"end":651.563,"text":"關於投資我們這些離岸風電的問題,我們討論…這個是經濟部這邊來決定,那目前還在走程序,那原則上我們會同意他來投資。那好了,那同意的話,那很多的相關的官員還指出來,我們投資風場內部的投資報酬力,就是IRR是非常穩定的,這也是一個事實吧,你所得到的訊息也是事實吧。那如果是這麼樣的穩定的話,那為什麼?"},{"start":654.184,"end":660.466,"text":"我們還要拉這個八大行會做信用擔保呢?"},{"start":660.466,"end":680.673,"text":"這個一定需要,這個不是只有臺灣,所有國家封廠的建制的部分,他一定都會需要這個臺灣的部分。 那如果說需要來做這樣的一個擔保的話,那我們來看看這個投資到底有沒有什麼一個必要性。其實院長,我在第9任就擔任立法院委員,我在2018年的時候就特別提出來了,在這個示範封"},{"start":680.913,"end":681.774,"text":"我告訴院長因為我們都談到科學。"},{"start":703.092,"end":729.922,"text":"目前國外認為認為風機的可用率多到97%你才需要來下注投標這才是需要來做的保證的97%這是國外歐洲所有的部分都這樣可是我們現在目前為止的我不曉得為什麼都創新紀錄只有56%各位我們在過去兩年當中只有兩個月的時候才達到所謂的一些的標準大部分的時間來說我們風機的可用率是非常低的"},{"start":730.622,"end":753.302,"text":"這麼低的狀況之下,我只能說這是一個事實。我們二十層從來沒有達過97%的這樣的一個風機的可用率。然後為什麼我們是獨步全球的低,代表政府花了很多錢蓋了一堆不太能用的風機。委員的這個數據我回去確認,但是我的理解應該跟我的理解是有落差的,應該不是這樣子。"},{"start":753.902,"end":780.618,"text":"沒有我的理解97%是國外的一個訊息但是過去兩年過去24個月當中的確沒有達到這麼樣的標準而且你說民間的一個用電我必須要提醒一下在我們的這個我們的這個風電裡面第三期當中不管是來自於不同的國家德國的德國的萊茵再生能源他要宣布退出臺灣還有呢我們的日商也評估不符合他們公司的投資報酬率"},{"start":781.298,"end":809.623,"text":"還有更不要去講了丹麥最大的Don Energy他們也是在做很大的一個評估所以呢我只能說很多國的這個部分是紛紛退出而我們確實要如此的來投資這麼大這個是我們要特別提到的有競爭然後有一些沒有進來所以你講的日商日商有一個日商他確實退出但是另外一個日商加進來所以這個在不同的國家他對不同的風場"},{"start":811.084,"end":828.238,"text":"我請求,我要求臺電做出這樣子的一個資料,而且趁著這個時間點,請院長可以責成他們在一個月之內給我相關的資料,可以讓我們多一點了解。因為我們必須要搞清楚這些的源頭,因為這是一個能源最大的一個問題。我不希望一個大的錢坑要..."},{"start":829.349,"end":854.677,"text":"要我們的這些八大行戶來一起跳火坑這是我質詢最大的一個重點沒有問題我們可以提供給委員讓委員了解因為這個能源的問題是牽涉到未來我們電價這都是完全環環相扣的所以我也不希望這個能源的這些的問題留給我們的新任的總統還有一大堆的爛牌子不過這一個如果委員講中油台電這個投資案未來都是賣給民間的不是給台電賺夠都不是"},{"start":854.957,"end":855.917,"text":"我可以回答一下嗎?"},{"start":855.917,"end":856.078,"text":"可以"},{"start":876.047,"end":877.128,"text":"97%是國外認為他們在任何要投資的時候?"},{"start":902.205,"end":925.557,"text":"可以,我們就好好地用科學論述,但是我要的資料沒有要到,所以院長趁這個時間幫我要到資料來去做。 這個才是一個真正的我們來互相做一個打變。 好,很好,在這個部分裡面,謝謝。我們接下來,下面一個,因為電費問題是大家非常重視的,下面一個我們來問一下,還是很多人關心的,這個詐騙的問題。 哎,院長,你有沒有看過,你曾經要送出很多人的書誒?"},{"start":927.379,"end":941.234,"text":"您說你的臉也是被放上我們這個詐騙集團當中。 對啊,確實。對,不過你的運氣蠻好的,你都還沒有發生之前,我們刑事警察局已經幫你把他移除了,幫你打詐了。沒有,我想刑事警察局對於任何"},{"start":941.715,"end":959.036,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":959.256,"end":961.477,"text":"我相信政府有決心要來打仗但是到底成效怎麼樣"},{"start":988.81,"end":995.397,"text":"蔡總統打擊詐欺的犯罪中心蘇院長也成立了打詐國家隊你成立了打詐辦公室"},{"start":999.44,"end":1026.884,"text":"真的每個人都想打仗金額是越花越多然後打仗的技術就越來越高超這真的是生病生的所以到底這個打仗的成效到底如何你說有成效我們來解釋一下院長我還是提醒一下你認為說很有成效但是你要問你會提出數據但是人民的感受不是這個樣子喔你看你花了這麼多錢我現在幫你來整理一下打仗的人力就是不足嘛你看到嗎165的專線的基本是被打爆"},{"start":1027.825,"end":1042.622,"text":"你們提到我們兩個層次來看,檢查的機關的人力目前為止還欠缺了670億就把你算得出來,而且打造中心的165,說實在的這個配備45個人而且一年接到43萬"},{"start":1045.064,"end":1073.149,"text":"的電話平均每天大概是1184通而且每人平均接的快100通的電話。 這個人力我們再看下面一個這個你花了這麼多的錢比過去更多的錢但是你放在這個所謂的人力的部分裡面只佔6點多大部分都放在設備跟儀器但是我們需要聽到親自的人在第一時間告訴我該怎麼辦可是你卻把整個的"},{"start":1073.649,"end":1074.389,"text":"您現在看的是這一個"},{"start":1097.657,"end":1098.217,"text":"我只是舉一個例子,你不要那麼敏感。"},{"start":1114.904,"end":1143.518,"text":"好那院長你就提這個例子但是我只是強調這一個重點就是你人類的配人力的配比包括我剛剛所提到的一個人每天要接到上前鋒的電話你已經爆掉165的人員已經爆掉了好不好還有還有院長我同意你啦我同意你就是說當我們有好的設備那我們的人力需要來禁用然後呢來加強然後讓用科技執法能夠來進行這個我們雙方來努力如果人力不足我們當然會來補充"},{"start":1144.679,"end":1167.939,"text":"那什麼時候來補足?現在內政部長或法務部長都在你人力什麼時候補足?跟委員說明我們檢查人力需要檢察官助理那行政院去年已經給我們撥了100人今年還要撥150人所以我們會在人力的補充上能夠全力以赴來做好打詐的工作你的檢察官助理你的檢察單位裡面其實對你們是有非常多的"},{"start":1169.3,"end":1181.886,"text":"不是,非常肯定,我們現在有增加的檢察官助理,成果非常好。檢察官助理的部分他們同樣沒有代替檢察官,他們只是在行政業務上面,畢竟他們還不是,所以他們只能在行政業務上面做一些擔擔。"},{"start":1197.833,"end":1198.914,"text":"因為他是一個通緝犯,我們當然一定要引渡回來。"},{"start":1227.616,"end":1240.07,"text":"現在還在偵辦當中所以問題是你不能否認很多時候你抓回的人的時候被你們法院又法官一一把他給放掉了所以院長你可不可以跟司法院好好的溝通一下好我們來溝通但是我們尊重司法獨立啦我們會來跟法院不用"},{"start":1246.858,"end":1260.206,"text":"不用急,我們會來跟司法院溝通,然後好好的跟他來協調。但是呢,我們絕對希望這一個詐騙犯應該要得到應有的懲罰,讓他能夠有後續的作用。對,但是我們要尊重司法獨立。對,所以我們會協調溝通。"},{"start":1268.951,"end":1269.792,"text":"我剛問你說要留下給我們這個新的總統是什麼?"},{"start":1269.792,"end":1269.872,"text":"真的"},{"start":1294.292,"end":1296.814,"text":"我們在去年齁因為這一個不法犯罪所得就查到了41億而且呢攔阻詐騙的已經有攔阻了76億齁所以就116億的"},{"start":1313.968,"end":1335.776,"text":"議員﹗"},{"start":1336.456,"end":1355.948,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下現在黑數比以前降低很多特別是我們165專線設了之後因為案件進來過去可能就像COVID-19一樣部長所謂的黑數就是查不到叫黑數你怎麼可以告訴我如何告訴我黑數是降低很多黑數就是看不到的數字啦那看不到數字你怎麼把它降低怎麼改變很多"},{"start":1356.348,"end":1380.165,"text":"委員跟你報告因為就像COVID-19一樣過去可能確診他不報可是因為現在有充分的管道165的話他不只是可以這個報案他現在還可以這個這個我們變成是一個大數據所以現在165的專線像你剛剛在講這個通宿增加但是通宿增加對我們處理打炸的事情是有幫助因為才可以在最短的時間裡面把最新的這種"},{"start":1380.905,"end":1396.003,"text":"我剛才特別提到我知道你們都有在努力但是很顯然這樣一個成效連我昨天都還繼續接到這個詐騙電話要拆我拆立法院的電錶真的把我給嚇到了所以這已經不是一個個案因為他是無差別的攻擊"},{"start":1396.544,"end":1398.165,"text":"我們沒有舉白旗了。 我們很努力。"},{"start":1416.22,"end":1416.4,"text":"有數位部,有。"},{"start":1431.883,"end":1459.903,"text":"有有數位部有他是放在NCC之下面放在NCC下面的組織你去看他放在NCC下面我還幫院長你來看一下院長你不要這樣很無奈的微笑我告訴你我都是用科學數據來告訴你你看他是放在數位發展不是放在這個任務是配合NCC的組織條例下面他做了哪些事情幫電商上課督促業者做這個檢測還有包括這些這個做些鼓勵還是上課這不是我們數位部的一個標準"},{"start":1461.604,"end":1488.844,"text":"部長上來了是可以回答嗎我們不只有協助NCC我們有協助金管會特別是在組詐跟賭詐這兩件事資訊流跟金流上我們都全力來配合部長你他們把這個條文裡面四個大的部會都放在前面你是附屬在NCC下面的那不會覺得委屈嗎你那不會覺得大家因為你是數位部沒有辦法在打仗裡面發揮一個所謂一定能力把你放在NCC下面讓你被感委屈嗎我都替你委屈了"},{"start":1489.544,"end":1507.135,"text":"委員我們這個整個的那個圖啊你不要用這個圖看啦這個圖是市詐、主詐、賭詐跟懲詐有不同的主責的單位但是我們數位部實際上是跟這四個部分都有重要的情形都有幫助"},{"start":1507.575,"end":1508.535,"text":"事詐、賭詐、主詐、懲詐都有關事務。"},{"start":1528.041,"end":1542.714,"text":"市府把你認為是我們打炸當中的是最大的一個戰犯你剛好上來了我先問你 院長你對這件事情在他昨天在交通部被質詢市府認為在打炸的團體當中唐鳳是一個最需要被負責的第一號戰犯你怎麼樣看待我覺得"},{"start":1543.234,"end":1544.434,"text":"我每一個部長、每一個部會的所長都做得不錯。"},{"start":1570.499,"end":1593.67,"text":"那你的條件真的比我們這些民進黨委員來的寬容非常的多我覺得要看看哪一個item哪一個項目當然有一些某一個特定的工作上需要再改進再精進有但是整體他們的努力為民服務的這樣的一個用心我想我給他們都有很大的肯定感謝他們"},{"start":1594.23,"end":1595.451,"text":"你不喜歡嗎?你不喜歡股票漲到2萬點?"},{"start":1620.742,"end":1646.374,"text":"﹗﹗﹗﹗"},{"start":1646.474,"end":1675.086,"text":"各位委員報告我們主責的部分包含電商客觀的來講之前這個分期付款解除詐騙等等但是最近5個月已經都沒有出現在165的高風險賣場客觀的來說我們主責的遊戲點數也大幅下降這個案件我們主責第三方支付現在已經全面的來登錄所以我想這些都是在我們主責的範圍裡面我們來幫助當然我想大家期望我做更多了就是網路上面的廣告平台業等等那這個我們也願意來主責"},{"start":1675.731,"end":1701.389,"text":"對大家期望你更多但是大家也給你這麼久的時間了所以你目前只剩下74天的時間了所以在這目前剩下的時間你是否該給我們的新任總統上任之前可以讓我們在場的所有每一個人可以給我們新任總統上任之前給我們一個更好的一個打仗看得出最大一個成效的部分否則你們剛剛所調整的每一個事項對民眾來說的話其實感受度還是非常的低的"},{"start":1702.116,"end":1730.525,"text":"其實我想在投資廣告上面大家所不希望看到的是同樣一個人他可以冒名稱好幾個名人那這個部分就是我們已經送到現在已經一讀交交委會的電子簽章法要解決的問題所以也很希望大院能夠支持我們這個法案電子簽章我沒有問題所以院長最後給你的一個時間當中我還是認為剩下74天的時間可以做的事情非常的多所以我剛剛所調列出來的包括在死刑犯部分的在事件的這個部分裡面這個時間點本席是有意見的第二個"},{"start":1730.985,"end":1759.134,"text":"有關於我剛所要求的在這個電子價臺電裡面的虧損還有你所購入電力還有風潮的部分也請你能夠呈現去給我還有最重要的是人民認為應該要來在打造層面當中應該做好的這樣的一個工作不要一天到晚都告訴我做的有多好多好你說很多地方已經下架但是人民的被詐騙我剛才特別提出來了詐騙的比數很高黑數更高所以大家都是在比賽技術的層面如果人民沒有敢"},{"start":1759.394,"end":1766.613,"text":"﹗"},{"start":1767.241,"end":1789.678,"text":"對,所以我也一再的強調,我們現在的整個內閣會繼續戰戰兢兢的做好福國立民的工作,然後在5月20能夠跟下一任的內閣能夠無縫的交接,然後把現在8年所做的這樣的一個好的成績能夠再繼續發揚光大,然後更能夠使得台灣更加的堅韌,更加的溫暖。"},{"start":1789.838,"end":1790.699,"text":"你不用擔心,我們都會好好的來溝通,還有無縫接軌。"},{"start":1810.37,"end":1811.511,"text":"謝謝柯委員之恩的質詢謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第49號陳穎委員質詢"}]}}}}