{"id":149611,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149611","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300120ee2f246f84679ee83bb1dd0927c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6ea10da310c6467805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:09:09 - 09:19:04","影片長度":"00:09:55","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":595,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:19:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:09:09+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":131,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時9分）謝謝主席，我們請主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，我想最近就是掛號費的問題，雖然我們現在已經把掛號費調整備查制度取消，尊重各醫療院所，在這個區塊因為在短時間內大家都已經要喊漲，可是上漲的幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：個別醫院掛號費的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，所以我們也沒辦法處理。可是這個一下子整個開放之後，造成有一些幅度的高跟低，這個我想我們也要密切注意，我相信所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己實質的醫療狀況去做一些核定，但是我們還是要注意，如果有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的情形，也是要密切去瞭解。"],["李主任委員鎂：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，最近因為我們接到比較多這樣的訊息，所以也跟主委反映一下，我想大家都是為了讓這個醫療體制更好，在整個軌道當中怎麼處理得更安穩、更平穩，然後讓醫病關係更好，大家都能夠得到對自己的照顧，這是我們的重點。但是我們不希望有一些不當的狀況而造成這一波被污名化，有一些被質疑的角度出現，所以這個部分再麻煩主委。","那另外一個區塊就是我們現在要進行修法，對不對？就是我們的公平交易法，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，我發現有兩個可能是目前會比較有爭議性的，就是第二十三條跟第二十四條不當贈品跟營業誹謗的部分，你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉，對不對？然後讓他們回歸到民事責任跟刑事責任。如果發現有不當贈品或營業誹謗的部分，他們就只能直接訴諸於法律途徑，我們公平會是完全無權可管、無法可管，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，贈品是企業它賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的方式之一……"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！可是這個贈品有當與不當，你如果今天連行政責任都把它刪除掉了，你無法可管啊！你今天要去調查，如果民眾跟你檢舉，你就跟他講：歹勢，你去告！真的有夠好，好棒棒喔！我們公平會現在好棒棒喔！公平會現在就是修法把自己的權力、把自己的責任全部都刪除掉，對不對？好，再來看第二十四條，你把營業誹謗這個行政責任也拿掉，也就是說，如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為，那麼你也只能說：歹勢，你去告！告刑事，告民事，把所有的權力交由法官處理，然後公平會都不用管，因為你把這個行政責任刪除掉了，你就可以很直接的講「我無法可管」。好棒棒，我們公平會真的越來越厲害了！就是把自己所有的權限、責任全部交出去，要叫你們負責的，你們不要負責，希望你們修法把自己的權力修得更大的，像那個多層次傳銷，你們不願意，人家要讓你管，你不要管。然後現在你們本來有法可管的，你們說：我要自廢武功、自繳武器，交出去，你們以後在發生問題的時候就說：歹勢，你們自己去告刑事，自己去告民事，是這樣嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：委員，我說明一下，您剛才關心的幾點，一個是贈品、贈獎這個部分，雖然刪除了第二十三條，但是企業如果透過它的市場力量從事不正競爭或是限制競爭行為，我們在前面有第二十條，還是有法可以管，那這一次會刪除就是希望讓企業在決定贈品、贈獎有一個比較自由的方式。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，有法給你們，你們都搞得自己這樣名不正言不順了，然後你跟我講雖然第二十三條刪除，但是還有第二十條，今天原來的條文是規定：「事業不得以不當提供贈品、贈獎之方法，爭取交易之機會。」對不對？這個條文這麼重要，你說要把它刪除掉，但是第二十條還有保留另外一個但書，誰相信啊？誰相信啊？有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了，你跟人家說：歹勢，我可以用第二十條來跟他說。好，我不講第二十三條，我再來講第二十四條，第二十四條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任，對不對？我今天受到誹謗了，我今天受到一些不當的引用，我申請要求公平會要來瞭解，你原本是有的喔！"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明一下，因為誹謗的性質基本上比較像是私權的一個行為，所以在刑法上也是告訴乃論。"],["陳委員亭妃：那當不在私權的部分呢？也就是說，當他今天只是小行為的誹謗，你要用到那麼大的規模在刑事，然後在民事。"],["李主任委員鎂：因為公平交易法規範的是違反競爭秩序，它比較有公益的考量，那營業誹謗在性質上是這個被誹謗者的權利受害，所以即便是在刑法，它也是一個告訴乃論之罪，我們是基於它在性質上比較是私權爭執。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！就是告訴乃論啊！當然就是由本身受到誹謗的人來提出，這是刑事嘛！可是今天我們所講的公平交易是在一個公平競爭的角度，剛剛主委講得非常清楚，我們要求的是公平的競爭行為，對不對？當今天沒有公平的競爭行為，我當然要要求公平會來瞭解啊！那公平會要去瞭解，今天你勉勉強強還有一個這麼小的所謂的調查責任，還有一些些控管的責任，還有一些些因為有行政責任所以可以調查的依據，結果你把這個依據都拿掉了，你連這個都拿掉了，所以未來公平會就無法可管了！只要有任何違反競爭的行為來跟公平會說的時候，你們就說：歹勢，你們自己提告，因為這是刑事跟民事。"],["李主任委員鎂：違反競爭行為在公平法是有規範，但是我們認為誹謗的性質是一個比較傾向於私權的爭執，所以才會從這個行政的處分上把它排除。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，你們現在有法都自廢武功了，都沒有在處理了，更何況你們自己又把它降到完全無法協助我們一般正常營業競爭行為的行政責任。"],["李主任委員鎂：對違反競爭的行為我們一定會嚴處。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分你們用一條卡一條、用一條放一條，你們就把自己的責任完全卸掉。主委，今天在公平交易法的過程當中，公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色，你是主管機關，不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉，如果把行政責任都卸掉，那公平會就可以關門了。"],["主席（陳委員亭妃代）：我們現在請第2位邱議瑩召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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587.96, \"end\": 588.12, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 588.12, \"end\": 588.24, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 588.24, \"end\": 588.26, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 588.26, \"end\": 588.28, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,946 --> 00:00:13,474\n謝謝主席我們請主委來請你主委\n\n2\n00:00:21,206 --> 00:00:48,271\n委員長主委我想最近就是掛號費的問題我想雖然我們現在已經把這樣的一個掛號費然後尊重各醫療院所那在這個區塊因為已經在短時間大家都已經要喊漲可是這個幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制嘛對不對\n\n3\n00:00:50,592 --> 00:01:04,504\n特別醫院的瓜花會的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定對所以我們也沒辦法處理可是這個一下子整個開放之後然後所造成的有一些這個\n\n4\n00:01:07,006 --> 00:01:30,823\n的高跟低這個我想我們也要密切注意說我相信啦所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己的一個所謂實質的醫療狀況去做一些核課跟核定但是呢我們還是要注意如果說有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的一個情形也是要密切去了解\n\n5\n00:01:31,784 --> 00:01:44,858\n主委,我想最近應該我們接到的是比較多這樣的訊息所以也跟主委反映一下我想大家都是為了這個醫療體制更好\n\n6\n00:02:12,461 --> 00:02:21,357\n被質疑的一個角度出現所以這個部分再麻煩諸位那另外一個部分一個區塊就是說我們現在要進行修法\n\n7\n00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:31,986\n主委,我發現有兩個可能是目前大家會比較爭議性的就在23條跟24條一個不當正評跟營業誹謗的部分你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉對不對\n\n8\n00:02:50,265 --> 00:02:50,625\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n9\n00:03:10,172 --> 00:03:36,801\n跟委員說明,贈品是企業他賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的一個方式之一是啊,可是這個贈品是有當與不當你如果今天連行政責任都把它拿除掉了請問,你無法可管啊你今天要去調查,如果民眾跟你檢舉你就跟他講,抱歉你去做\n\n10\n00:03:37,981 --> 00:03:50,349\n我告訴你好棒棒喔我們公平會現在好棒棒喔我們公平會現在就是修法把自己的權利把自己的責任全部都刪除掉對不對好再來看24條營業誹謗之後我們呢就把這個行政責任也拿掉也就是說如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為\n\n11\n00:04:07,594 --> 00:04:36,369\n那麼我也只能說不好意思你去告你去告告刑事告民事然後把所有的權利交由法官處理然後呢我們公平會因為你把這個行政責任把它刪除掉了你就可以很直接講我無法可管好棒棒我們公平會真的越來越厲害了\n\n12\n00:04:37,901 --> 00:04:55,174\n就是把自己所有的權限責任全部交出去希望你們修法把自己權利修得更大的像那個多層次傳銷你們不願意然後現在你們本來有法可管的你們說我\n\n13\n00:05:05,834 --> 00:05:17,525\n要自費武功、自繳武器交出去你們以後發生問題不好意思你們自己去告刑事自己去告民事是這樣嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:19,178 --> 00:05:44,310\n主委委員我説明一下齁那您剛才關心幾點一個贈品贈獎這一部分齁雖然刪除了23條但是企業如果透過它的這個市場力量從事這個不正競爭或是限制競爭行為我們前面第20條還是有法可以管那這一次會刪除是希望讓企業它在決絕這一件這樣主委有法給你們你們都搞得自己這樣\n\n15\n00:05:45,931 --> 00:06:07,446\n民不正言不順了然後你跟我講說我23條刪除但是我20條還有你今天所謂的不當正評事業不得已不當提供正評喔原來的條文喔事業不得已不當提供正評正講的方法爭取交易的機會對不對這個這麼重要\n\n16\n00:06:10,575 --> 00:06:28,739\n你說把它刪除掉但是呢我們20條還有保留另外一個但書誰相信啊誰相信啊有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了你跟人家講說抱歉我可以再用20條來說好我不講23條我再來講24條24條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任\n\n17\n00:06:43,855 --> 00:06:57,506\n那我今天受到誹謗了我今天受到不當的一些引用好我申請要求公平會議要來了解你原本是有的喔\n\n18\n00:06:58,291 --> 00:06:59,792\n因為公平交易法規範的就是一個\n\n19\n00:07:26,021 --> 00:07:32,944\n公平交易法犯的是違反競爭秩序,它比較有公義的考量。那營業毀謗它在性質上是一個被毀謗的人權利的一個受害。所以即便是在刑法它也是一個告訴乃論之罪。我們是建議它的性質上比較是失權爭取。\n\n20\n00:07:48,311 --> 00:08:11,360\n我受到誹謗者我來提出嘛這是形式嘛可是今天我們所講的公平交易在一個公平競爭的角度剛剛主委講得非常清楚我們要求的是公平的競爭行為對不對當今天沒有公平的競爭行為我當然要要求公民會來瞭解啊那公民會瞭解今天在勉勉強強還有這個這麼小的\n\n21\n00:08:15,362 --> 00:08:23,456\n所謂的你還有調查的責任還有一些些控管的責任\n\n22\n00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:46,191\n還有一些些讓他有些行政責任可以調查的這樣的依據結果你把這個依據都拿掉了你連這個都拿掉了所以未來公平會就無法可管了只要任何違反所謂競爭行為來跟我們公平會說的時候你們就說抱歉\n\n23\n00:08:46,832 --> 00:08:48,253\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n24\n00:09:09,454 --> 00:09:09,614\n委員會主席\n\n25\n00:09:32,984 --> 00:09:48,280\n今天公平交易法的過程當中公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色你是主管機關不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉那麼如果把行政責任都卸掉那公平會就可以關門了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11946\t13474\t謝謝主席我們請主委來請你主委\n21206\t48271\t委員長主委我想最近就是掛號費的問題我想雖然我們現在已經把這樣的一個掛號費然後尊重各醫療院所那在這個區塊因為已經在短時間大家都已經要喊漲可是這個幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制嘛 對不對\n50592\t64504\t特別醫院的瓜花會的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定對所以我們也沒辦法處理可是這個一下子整個開放之後然後所造成的有一些這個\n67006\t90823\t的高跟低這個我想我們也要密切注意說我相信啦所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己的一個所謂實質的醫療狀況去做一些核課跟核定但是呢我們還是要注意如果說有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的一個情形也是要密切去了解\n91784\t104858\t主委,我想最近應該我們接到的是比較多這樣的訊息所以也跟主委反映一下我想大家都是為了這個醫療體制更好\n106340\t132381\t議員議員議員\n132461\t141357\t被質疑的一個角度出現所以這個部分再麻煩諸位那另外一個部分一個區塊就是說我們現在要進行修法\n142759\t151986\t主委,我發現有兩個可能是目前大家會比較爭議性的就在23條跟24條一個不當正評跟營業誹謗的部分你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉對不對\n170265\t170625\t委員會主任委員會主任\n190172\t216801\t跟委員說明,贈品是企業他賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的一個方式之一是啊,可是這個贈品是有當與不當你如果今天連行政責任都把它拿除掉了請問,你無法可管啊你今天要去調查,如果民眾跟你檢舉你就跟他講,抱歉你去做\n217981\t230349\t我告訴你好棒棒喔我們公平會現在好棒棒喔我們公平會現在就是修法把自己的權利把自己的責任全部都刪除掉對不對好再來看24條營業誹謗之後我們呢就把這個行政責任也拿掉也就是說如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為\n247594\t276369\t那麼我也只能說不好意思你去告你去告告刑事告民事然後把所有的權利交由法官處理然後呢我們公平會因為你把這個行政責任把它刪除掉了你就可以很直接講我無法可管好棒棒我們公平會真的越來越厲害了\n277901\t295174\t就是把自己所有的權限責任全部交出去希望你們修法把自己權利修得更大的像那個多層次傳銷你們不願意然後現在你們本來有法可管的你們說我\n305834\t317525\t要自費武功、自繳武器交出去你們以後發生問題不好意思你們自己去告刑事自己去告民事是這樣嗎?\n319178\t344310\t主委委員我説明一下齁那您剛才關心幾點一個贈品贈獎這一部分齁雖然刪除了23條但是企業如果透過它的這個市場力量從事這個不正競爭或是限制競爭行為我們前面第20條還是有法可以管那這一次會刪除是希望讓企業它在決絕這一件這樣主委有法給你們你們都搞得自己這樣\n345931\t367446\t民不正言不順了然後你跟我講說我23條刪除但是我20條還有你今天所謂的不當正評事業不得已不當提供正評喔原來的條文喔事業不得已不當提供正評正講的方法爭取交易的機會對不對這個這麼重要\n370575\t388739\t你說把它刪除掉但是呢我們20條還有保留另外一個但書誰相信啊誰相信啊有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了你跟人家講說抱歉我可以再用20條來說好我不講23條我再來講24條24條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任\n403855\t417506\t那我今天受到誹謗了我今天受到不當的一些引用好我申請要求公平會議要來了解你原本是有的喔\n418291\t419792\t因為公平交易法規範的就是一個\n446021\t452944\t公平交易法犯的是違反競爭秩序,它比較有公義的考量。那營業毀謗它在性質上是一個被毀謗的人權利的一個受害。所以即便是在刑法它也是一個告訴乃論之罪。我們是建議它的性質上比較是失權爭取。\n468311\t491360\t我受到誹謗者我來提出嘛這是形式嘛可是今天我們所講的公平交易在一個公平競爭的角度剛剛主委講得非常清楚我們要求的是公平的競爭行為對不對當今天沒有公平的競爭行為我當然要要求公民會來瞭解啊那公民會瞭解今天在勉勉強強還有這個這麼小的\n495362\t503456\t所謂的你還有調查的責任還有一些些控管的責任\n504950\t526191\t還有一些些讓他有些行政責任可以調查的這樣的依據結果你把這個依據都拿掉了你連這個都拿掉了所以未來公平會就無法可管了只要任何違反所謂競爭行為來跟我們公平會說的時候你們就說抱歉\n526832\t528253\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n549454\t549614\t委員會主席\n572984\t588280\t今天公平交易法的過程當中公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色你是主管機關不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉那麼如果把行政責任都卸掉那公平會就可以關門了\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請主委來請你主委\n委員長主委我想最近就是掛號費的問題我想雖然我們現在已經把這樣的一個掛號費然後尊重各醫療院所那在這個區塊因為已經在短時間大家都已經要喊漲可是這個幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制嘛 對不對\n特別醫院的瓜花會的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定對所以我們也沒辦法處理可是這個一下子整個開放之後然後所造成的有一些這個\n的高跟低這個我想我們也要密切注意說我相信啦所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己的一個所謂實質的醫療狀況去做一些核課跟核定但是呢我們還是要注意如果說有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的一個情形也是要密切去了解\n主委,我想最近應該我們接到的是比較多這樣的訊息所以也跟主委反映一下我想大家都是為了這個醫療體制更好\n議員議員議員\n被質疑的一個角度出現所以這個部分再麻煩諸位那另外一個部分一個區塊就是說我們現在要進行修法\n主委,我發現有兩個可能是目前大家會比較爭議性的就在23條跟24條一個不當正評跟營業誹謗的部分你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉對不對\n委員會主任委員會主任\n跟委員說明,贈品是企業他賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的一個方式之一是啊,可是這個贈品是有當與不當你如果今天連行政責任都把它拿除掉了請問,你無法可管啊你今天要去調查,如果民眾跟你檢舉你就跟他講,抱歉你去做\n我告訴你好棒棒喔我們公平會現在好棒棒喔我們公平會現在就是修法把自己的權利把自己的責任全部都刪除掉對不對好再來看24條營業誹謗之後我們呢就把這個行政責任也拿掉也就是說如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為\n那麼我也只能說不好意思你去告你去告告刑事告民事然後把所有的權利交由法官處理然後呢我們公平會因為你把這個行政責任把它刪除掉了你就可以很直接講我無法可管好棒棒我們公平會真的越來越厲害了\n就是把自己所有的權限責任全部交出去希望你們修法把自己權利修得更大的像那個多層次傳銷你們不願意然後現在你們本來有法可管的你們說我\n要自費武功、自繳武器交出去你們以後發生問題不好意思你們自己去告刑事自己去告民事是這樣嗎?\n主委委員我説明一下齁那您剛才關心幾點一個贈品贈獎這一部分齁雖然刪除了23條但是企業如果透過它的這個市場力量從事這個不正競爭或是限制競爭行為我們前面第20條還是有法可以管那這一次會刪除是希望讓企業它在決絕這一件這樣主委有法給你們你們都搞得自己這樣\n民不正言不順了然後你跟我講說我23條刪除但是我20條還有你今天所謂的不當正評事業不得已不當提供正評喔原來的條文喔事業不得已不當提供正評正講的方法爭取交易的機會對不對這個這麼重要\n你說把它刪除掉但是呢我們20條還有保留另外一個但書誰相信啊誰相信啊有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了你跟人家講說抱歉我可以再用20條來說好我不講23條我再來講24條24條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任\n那我今天受到誹謗了我今天受到不當的一些引用好我申請要求公平會議要來了解你原本是有的喔\n因為公平交易法規範的就是一個\n公平交易法犯的是違反競爭秩序,它比較有公義的考量。那營業毀謗它在性質上是一個被毀謗的人權利的一個受害。所以即便是在刑法它也是一個告訴乃論之罪。我們是建議它的性質上比較是失權爭取。\n我受到誹謗者我來提出嘛這是形式嘛可是今天我們所講的公平交易在一個公平競爭的角度剛剛主委講得非常清楚我們要求的是公平的競爭行為對不對當今天沒有公平的競爭行為我當然要要求公民會來瞭解啊那公民會瞭解今天在勉勉強強還有這個這麼小的\n所謂的你還有調查的責任還有一些些控管的責任\n還有一些些讓他有些行政責任可以調查的這樣的依據結果你把這個依據都拿掉了你連這個都拿掉了所以未來公平會就無法可管了只要任何違反所謂競爭行為來跟我們公平會說的時候你們就說抱歉\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n委員會主席\n今天公平交易法的過程當中公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色你是主管機關不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉那麼如果把行政責任都卸掉那公平會就可以關門了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.946 --> 00:13.474\n謝謝主席我們請主委來請你主委\n\n00:21.206 --> 00:48.271\n委員長主委我想最近就是掛號費的問題我想雖然我們現在已經把這樣的一個掛號費然後尊重各醫療院所那在這個區塊因為已經在短時間大家都已經要喊漲可是這個幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制嘛對不對\n\n00:50.592 --> 01:04.504\n特別醫院的瓜花會的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定對所以我們也沒辦法處理可是這個一下子整個開放之後然後所造成的有一些這個\n\n01:07.006 --> 01:30.823\n的高跟低這個我想我們也要密切注意說我相信啦所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己的一個所謂實質的醫療狀況去做一些核課跟核定但是呢我們還是要注意如果說有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的一個情形也是要密切去了解\n\n01:31.784 --> 01:44.858\n主委,我想最近應該我們接到的是比較多這樣的訊息所以也跟主委反映一下我想大家都是為了這個醫療體制更好\n\n02:12.461 --> 02:21.357\n被質疑的一個角度出現所以這個部分再麻煩諸位那另外一個部分一個區塊就是說我們現在要進行修法\n\n02:22.759 --> 02:31.986\n主委,我發現有兩個可能是目前大家會比較爭議性的就在23條跟24條一個不當正評跟營業誹謗的部分你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉對不對\n\n02:50.265 --> 02:50.625\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n03:10.172 --> 03:36.801\n跟委員說明,贈品是企業他賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的一個方式之一是啊,可是這個贈品是有當與不當你如果今天連行政責任都把它拿除掉了請問,你無法可管啊你今天要去調查,如果民眾跟你檢舉你就跟他講,抱歉你去做\n\n03:37.981 --> 03:50.349\n我告訴你好棒棒喔我們公平會現在好棒棒喔我們公平會現在就是修法把自己的權利把自己的責任全部都刪除掉對不對好再來看24條營業誹謗之後我們呢就把這個行政責任也拿掉也就是說如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為\n\n04:07.594 --> 04:36.369\n那麼我也只能說不好意思你去告你去告告刑事告民事然後把所有的權利交由法官處理然後呢我們公平會因為你把這個行政責任把它刪除掉了你就可以很直接講我無法可管好棒棒我們公平會真的越來越厲害了\n\n04:37.901 --> 04:55.174\n就是把自己所有的權限責任全部交出去希望你們修法把自己權利修得更大的像那個多層次傳銷你們不願意然後現在你們本來有法可管的你們說我\n\n05:05.834 --> 05:17.525\n要自費武功、自繳武器交出去你們以後發生問題不好意思你們自己去告刑事自己去告民事是這樣嗎?\n\n05:19.178 --> 05:44.310\n主委委員我説明一下齁那您剛才關心幾點一個贈品贈獎這一部分齁雖然刪除了23條但是企業如果透過它的這個市場力量從事這個不正競爭或是限制競爭行為我們前面第20條還是有法可以管那這一次會刪除是希望讓企業它在決絕這一件這樣主委有法給你們你們都搞得自己這樣\n\n05:45.931 --> 06:07.446\n民不正言不順了然後你跟我講說我23條刪除但是我20條還有你今天所謂的不當正評事業不得已不當提供正評喔原來的條文喔事業不得已不當提供正評正講的方法爭取交易的機會對不對這個這麼重要\n\n06:10.575 --> 06:28.739\n你說把它刪除掉但是呢我們20條還有保留另外一個但書誰相信啊誰相信啊有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了你跟人家講說抱歉我可以再用20條來說好我不講23條我再來講24條24條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任\n\n06:43.855 --> 06:57.506\n那我今天受到誹謗了我今天受到不當的一些引用好我申請要求公平會議要來了解你原本是有的喔\n\n06:58.291 --> 06:59.792\n因為公平交易法規範的就是一個\n\n07:26.021 --> 07:32.944\n公平交易法犯的是違反競爭秩序,它比較有公義的考量。那營業毀謗它在性質上是一個被毀謗的人權利的一個受害。所以即便是在刑法它也是一個告訴乃論之罪。我們是建議它的性質上比較是失權爭取。\n\n07:48.311 --> 08:11.360\n我受到誹謗者我來提出嘛這是形式嘛可是今天我們所講的公平交易在一個公平競爭的角度剛剛主委講得非常清楚我們要求的是公平的競爭行為對不對當今天沒有公平的競爭行為我當然要要求公民會來瞭解啊那公民會瞭解今天在勉勉強強還有這個這麼小的\n\n08:15.362 --> 08:23.456\n所謂的你還有調查的責任還有一些些控管的責任\n\n08:24.950 --> 08:46.191\n還有一些些讓他有些行政責任可以調查的這樣的依據結果你把這個依據都拿掉了你連這個都拿掉了所以未來公平會就無法可管了只要任何違反所謂競爭行為來跟我們公平會說的時候你們就說抱歉\n\n08:46.832 --> 08:48.253\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n09:09.454 --> 09:09.614\n委員會主席\n\n09:32.984 --> 09:48.280\n今天公平交易法的過程當中公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色你是主管機關不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉那麼如果把行政責任都卸掉那公平會就可以關門了\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.946,"end":13.474,"text":"謝謝主席我們請主委來請你主委"},{"start":21.206,"end":48.271,"text":"委員長主委我想最近就是掛號費的問題我想雖然我們現在已經把這樣的一個掛號費然後尊重各醫療院所那在這個區塊因為已經在短時間大家都已經要喊漲可是這個幅度跟比例我們也沒有辦法去控制嘛 對不對"},{"start":50.592,"end":64.504,"text":"特別醫院的瓜花會的高低是由各個醫院院所去決定對所以我們也沒辦法處理可是這個一下子整個開放之後然後所造成的有一些這個"},{"start":67.006,"end":90.823,"text":"的高跟低這個我想我們也要密切注意說我相信啦所有的醫療院所應該都會依照他們自己的一個所謂實質的醫療狀況去做一些核課跟核定但是呢我們還是要注意如果說有一些狀況不在一個所謂正常軌道的一個情形也是要密切去了解"},{"start":91.784,"end":104.858,"text":"主委,我想最近應該我們接到的是比較多這樣的訊息所以也跟主委反映一下我想大家都是為了這個醫療體制更好"},{"start":106.34,"end":132.381,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":132.461,"end":141.357,"text":"被質疑的一個角度出現所以這個部分再麻煩諸位那另外一個部分一個區塊就是說我們現在要進行修法"},{"start":142.759,"end":151.986,"text":"主委,我發現有兩個可能是目前大家會比較爭議性的就在23條跟24條一個不當正評跟營業誹謗的部分你們打算把自己的行政責任全部刪除掉對不對"},{"start":170.265,"end":170.625,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":190.172,"end":216.801,"text":"跟委員說明,贈品是企業他賣東西要用什麼方式來吸引消費者的一個方式之一是啊,可是這個贈品是有當與不當你如果今天連行政責任都把它拿除掉了請問,你無法可管啊你今天要去調查,如果民眾跟你檢舉你就跟他講,抱歉你去做"},{"start":217.981,"end":230.349,"text":"我告訴你好棒棒喔我們公平會現在好棒棒喔我們公平會現在就是修法把自己的權利把自己的責任全部都刪除掉對不對好再來看24條營業誹謗之後我們呢就把這個行政責任也拿掉也就是說如果實質在營業過程我有發現我被誹謗的行為"},{"start":247.594,"end":276.369,"text":"那麼我也只能說不好意思你去告你去告告刑事告民事然後把所有的權利交由法官處理然後呢我們公平會因為你把這個行政責任把它刪除掉了你就可以很直接講我無法可管好棒棒我們公平會真的越來越厲害了"},{"start":277.901,"end":295.174,"text":"就是把自己所有的權限責任全部交出去希望你們修法把自己權利修得更大的像那個多層次傳銷你們不願意然後現在你們本來有法可管的你們說我"},{"start":305.834,"end":317.525,"text":"要自費武功、自繳武器交出去你們以後發生問題不好意思你們自己去告刑事自己去告民事是這樣嗎?"},{"start":319.178,"end":344.31,"text":"主委委員我説明一下齁那您剛才關心幾點一個贈品贈獎這一部分齁雖然刪除了23條但是企業如果透過它的這個市場力量從事這個不正競爭或是限制競爭行為我們前面第20條還是有法可以管那這一次會刪除是希望讓企業它在決絕這一件這樣主委有法給你們你們都搞得自己這樣"},{"start":345.931,"end":367.446,"text":"民不正言不順了然後你跟我講說我23條刪除但是我20條還有你今天所謂的不當正評事業不得已不當提供正評喔原來的條文喔事業不得已不當提供正評正講的方法爭取交易的機會對不對這個這麼重要"},{"start":370.575,"end":388.739,"text":"你說把它刪除掉但是呢我們20條還有保留另外一個但書誰相信啊誰相信啊有權責義務給你們的時候你們都不會用了你跟人家講說抱歉我可以再用20條來說好我不講23條我再來講24條24條就是營業誹謗行為的行政責任"},{"start":403.855,"end":417.506,"text":"那我今天受到誹謗了我今天受到不當的一些引用好我申請要求公平會議要來了解你原本是有的喔"},{"start":418.291,"end":419.792,"text":"因為公平交易法規範的就是一個"},{"start":446.021,"end":452.944,"text":"公平交易法犯的是違反競爭秩序,它比較有公義的考量。那營業毀謗它在性質上是一個被毀謗的人權利的一個受害。所以即便是在刑法它也是一個告訴乃論之罪。我們是建議它的性質上比較是失權爭取。"},{"start":468.311,"end":491.36,"text":"我受到誹謗者我來提出嘛這是形式嘛可是今天我們所講的公平交易在一個公平競爭的角度剛剛主委講得非常清楚我們要求的是公平的競爭行為對不對當今天沒有公平的競爭行為我當然要要求公民會來瞭解啊那公民會瞭解今天在勉勉強強還有這個這麼小的"},{"start":495.362,"end":503.456,"text":"所謂的你還有調查的責任還有一些些控管的責任"},{"start":504.95,"end":526.191,"text":"還有一些些讓他有些行政責任可以調查的這樣的依據結果你把這個依據都拿掉了你連這個都拿掉了所以未來公平會就無法可管了只要任何違反所謂競爭行為來跟我們公平會說的時候你們就說抱歉"},{"start":526.832,"end":528.253,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":549.454,"end":549.614,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":572.984,"end":588.28,"text":"今天公平交易法的過程當中公平會占了一個非常重要的關鍵跟角色你是主管機關不是把所有的行政責任都卸掉那麼如果把行政責任都卸掉那公平會就可以關門了"}]}}}}