{"id":149615,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149615","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300bf81bbeadaece2a2ee83bb1dd0927c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6ddaafb66827a691f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"09:19:20 - 09:30:11","影片長度":"00:10:51","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":651,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:30:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:19:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":158,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時19分）謝謝主席，我是不是請一下公平會？"],["主席：我們請主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委早。主委，我剛剛看了一下您的業務報告，裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處聯合漲價的案子，有一個是處分怡仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子，我不知道這個案子的處理過程，跟我們現在在談衛福部取消了掛號費的上限，讓醫療院所可以自行決定他們的掛號費漲幅是多少……可不可以請教一下公平會？你們一開始就馬上出來講說你們會密切注意這件事情，你們會密切注意是不是有聯合漲價的行為，要去查處，甚至要去開罰。我想請教，現在醫療院所普遍來講，不管是薪資成本、行政成本，所有的費用全部是上漲，所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情。衛福部也從善如流，取消了掛號費的上限，所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價。公平會馬上就跳出來說，我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價。我不知道這個定義，就是大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價認知上面，比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立醫療院所都漲價的話，這個算不算聯合漲價？這跟你們過去裁處怡仁醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同？主委，請你簡要說明。"],["李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員，我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結，談好要怎麼去定這個價格。如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的成本、人事各方面市場機制的考量，自己定掛號費，這是沒有問題的，可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼定這個價格。去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院，就是兩家院所彼此有聯繫，講好要怎麼漲，這是我們處罰的一個做法。"],["邱委員議瑩：講好要怎麼漲，其實某一個角度上來看，如果說大家覺得我就不要漲太高，比如說有一家漲到了2,000塊，像那種特別門診漲到2,000元，一家漲1,500元，變成削價的搶價，我覺得現在很多私立的這些醫療院所可能也都會去看一下市場機制，可能這些工會會有一個譜，就是說可以適度的調漲，但是不要調漲太多。如果是這樣的想法，會不會演變成公平會認知叫做聯合漲價？我覺得這個就有待商榷。當然你們的查處量能這件事情我覺得也是值得懷疑，到底你的查處量能會在哪裡？你對於醫療的這一些行為，醫療端所需花費的成本跟漲價合不合理的認知，我不曉得公平會的瞭解程度會到哪裡，是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告，還是您現在要簡要說明？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，會給委員一個資料，最主要我們在查的不是它漲得合不合理，因為漲得合不合理就是如委員所說的，它去看市場的狀況、自己院所的成本、進藥等各方面的成本，所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你們在意的是，是不是幾個醫療院所大家講好了，一起漲個50塊、漲了100塊，這個就叫聯合漲價了？"],["李主任委員鎂：這樣是不行的，所以我們會看它是不是同一個科別、它的地理區域、它是不是關係企業，對整個情況會做一個瞭解，通盤判斷。"],["邱委員議瑩：像這一些查處的方式，比如說哪一些會觸法，我覺得可能你們要去說明一下，可能有一些地方的工會或者是有一些比較友好的私立的診所，大家可能會覺得我們就來談好一個價格，不要漲得太多，不要彼此削價競爭，這個有可能就會觸法。我覺得像這個部分你們應該要去給這些醫療院所做一些善意的提醒，因為有些醫生可能對這一方面的法令並不那麼清楚。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們在上個禮拜已經發文給衛福部，請它發函給所有的醫療院所注意公平交易法的這些規定。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，另外，我們其實一直在談這些直銷，這個大概您有看到，大概是上個月的新聞，雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷，月入80萬，公務人員能不能去做直銷？當然是不行。那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷，我看你們也很難查，也很難管，這個大概是因為太強出頭了，所以被查出來。順著這個，我也去買了一瓶「活樂代」茶，這個現在聽說他們已經下架了，講是講買不到原物料，但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料，曾經有一個女子三餐狂喝，喝到中風，這個大概也不在你們查察的範圍之內。我現在要講是，其實這些直銷的產品常常都是我們講了一樣、檢舉了一家，你們才開始去查，所以這麼多家的直銷公司，到底它賣的產品合不合格、它的營業行為合不合法，其實你們很難查得到，你們很難管。","我再來講一個，這一家叫「元真健康」，這一家你知道嗎？這一家元真健康現在的問題是什麼？現在還沒有說它的產品有很大的問題，但是它入會的方式有很大的問題，它是有一點類似像民間互助會的型態，你只要加入，我抽多少錢，然後你要跟多少會，你跟了這個會之後，你要買公司指定塞給你的保健食品。所以你看這個截圖，有一個女生說，很誇張，我今天又得標110會，一個會是5,000塊，他一天又得標110會，這算下來是多少？然後利息是400到700，甚至他每一個會要交1,220的服務費給公司，這比高利貸還好賺啦！主委，像這樣的公司有沒有問題？像這樣的公司該不該查？像這樣的直銷公司有多少？公平會掌握的進度到哪裡，掌握的程度到哪裡？"],["李主任委員鎂：我跟委員說明，像這家元真公司我們有到它的公司去查，它的說詞是說它租給168公司去做以會養會的事情。事實上，傳銷事業對於它的傳銷商的行為也要有嚴格的一個管控機制，如果它對於它的傳銷商沒有好好約束，讓這個傳銷商從事跟我們報備的內容不一樣的話，我們是可以處罰的。"],["邱委員議瑩：元真公司到底是不是傳銷商？"],["李主任委員鎂：元真是傳銷，所以我們……"],["邱委員議瑩：那168公司又是什麼？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們去現場看，168公司是跟元真公司租那個辦公室，所以它跟元真公司是同一個地址，所以我們已經……"],["邱委員議瑩：它跟元真公司租那個辦公室，那它的負責人是不是同一個人？"],["李主任委員鎂：不一樣，都不一樣。"],["邱委員議瑩：那這些加入元真公司直銷的人，是不是直接就被所謂的168要求要去入會？這一點你們有沒有去查？"],["李主任委員鎂：它是入會可以送元真的食品，這一部分的實情，內部是不是進一步透過一個第三方公司去從事違反傳銷的這些行為，我們已經立案調查。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個看起來就像是啊！入會就送元真的食品，那入元真跟入168相不相同？168去哪裡拿到元真的食品，元真的這些食品合不合法？入168要不要去賣元真的食品、元真健康的東西？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個我們現在都調查中，也傳喚約詢……"],["邱委員議瑩：我相信你們在調查中，主委，我要跟您談的是，我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西，直銷的業者這麼多家，當然我相信也有一些好的，看起來不好的容易被點出來，但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家，所以這一些直銷公司到底你們掌握到他們合法、正派經營的程度到哪裡？我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展，所以每一次我們都在這裡問，每次就拿一個產品來問你，然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法，比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的，看它的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因，可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒，這個也很奇怪，這個都告訴你說喝了促進代謝、增強免疫力、強健體魄，我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪，然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆，所以公務人員就直接去加入了直銷，1個月月入80萬，比他上班還好賺，因為出事情了，所以你們才會開始去查。所以我要講的是，其實公平會應該要更積極主動一點，這一件事情、這個論點我每一個會期都跟您提，可是我們每一次都看不到公平會真的積極主動在哪裡？"],["李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員指教，如果涉及到療效或食品，我們跟衛福部也會有很緊密的聯繫，該當請他們進一步查處的，我們也都有充分的合作。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。不好意思，我跟召委借一點點時間。召委講的這件事情就是我們一直在講的，多層次傳銷，大家都願意讓你管，你們就是不願意管，我們要求法要設得更完整，讓你們有武器去直接做這樣的認定，但你們不願意，我就覺得好奇怪，到底你們公平會是發生什麼事了？所有的立委都站在你們這邊，結果你們自己要自廢武功，也不願意尋找武器，這才是最好笑的。"],["主席（邱委員議瑩）：謝謝。接下來請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:43,857\n委員長主委早主委這個剛剛看了一下您的業務報告裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處這個聯合漲價的案子有一個是處分宜仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子那我不知道這個案子的處理過程跟我們現在在談\n\n3\n00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:49,542\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n4\n00:01:07,219 --> 00:01:30,791\n然後要去查處甚至要去開罰我想請教現在大家醫療院所大家普遍來講就是說所有的不管是薪資成本行政成本所有的費用全部是上漲所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情衛福部也從善如流所以取消了掛號費的上限所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價\n\n5\n00:01:32,552 --> 00:01:51,175\n那衛福部馬上就跳出來說我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價我不知道這個定義就大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價你的認知上面比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立的這些醫療院所都漲價的話這個算不算聯合漲價這跟你們過去採儲醫院醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同\n\n6\n00:01:59,477 --> 00:02:18,491\n主委請剪掉說明謝謝委員我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結談好要怎麼去訂這個價格如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的這個成本人士各方面的這個市場機制的考量自己訂這個掛號費這是沒有問題的可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼訂這個價格那去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院他就是\n\n7\n00:02:28,678 --> 00:02:30,039\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n8\n00:02:43,993 --> 00:02:44,013\n委員會議員\n\n9\n00:02:59,972 --> 00:03:00,092\n市場機制市場機制\n\n10\n00:03:15,871 --> 00:03:15,971\n委員會主席\n\n11\n00:03:36,266 --> 00:03:57,557\n的了解程度會到哪裡?是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告還是您現在要請要說?會給委員一個資料那最主要我們在查的不是說他帳的合不合理因為帳的合不合理就是如委員所說的他去看市場的狀況自己院所的成本競要各方面的成本所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格\n\n12\n00:04:46,064 --> 00:04:50,306\n主委,另外我們其實一直在談這些直銷這個大概您有看到大概是上個月的新聞雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷月入80萬\n\n13\n00:05:08,172 --> 00:05:21,295\n公務人員能不能去做直銷當然是不行那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷我看你們也很難查也很難管那這個大概是因為太強出頭了所以被查出來\n\n14\n00:05:23,030 --> 00:05:40,973\n我也順著這個我也去買了一瓶這個叫做什麼活樂帶這個茶這個呢現在聽說他們已經下架了因為買講是講買不到原物料啦但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料啦曾經有一個女子呢三餐狂喝喝到中風\n\n15\n00:05:42,554 --> 00:06:07,743\n那這個呢大概也不在你們查查的範圍之內我現在講就是說其實這一些直銷的產品常常都是我們講的一樣檢舉了一家你們才開始去查所以這麼多家的直銷公司到底他賣的產品合不合格他的營業行為合不合法其實你們很難查得到你們很難管我再來講一個\n\n16\n00:06:10,291 --> 00:06:37,418\n這一家叫元珍健康這一家你知道嗎這一家元珍健康現在的問題是什麼現在還沒有說他的產品有很大的問題但是他入會的方式有很大的問題他是有一點類似像民間互助會的形態你只要加入我抽多少錢然後呢你要跟多少會你跟了這個會之後呢你要\n\n17\n00:06:39,331 --> 00:07:04,824\n買公司指定塞給你的保健食品所以你看到這個截圖有一個女生說很誇張我今天要得標110會一個會是5000塊他一天要得標110會這算下來是多少然後呢利息是400到700甚至他每一個會要交1200二的服務費給公司\n\n18\n00:07:08,553 --> 00:07:35,940\n這比高利貸還好賺啊?主委,像這樣的公司有沒有問題?像這樣的公司該不該查?像這樣的直銷公司有多少?公平會的掌握進度到哪裡?掌握的程度到哪裡?來,主委我跟委員說明,像這個緣真公司這家我們有到他的公司去查,他其實他的說辭是說他租給那個168公司去做這個\n\n19\n00:07:37,841 --> 00:07:38,481\n那168公司又是什麼?\n\n20\n00:08:20,814 --> 00:08:41,563\n直接就被所謂的這個什麼168要求要去入會這一點你們有沒有去查?他是入會可以送原真的食品那這部分實情進一步內部是不是透過一個第三方公司去從事違反這個傳銷的這些行為我們已經立案調查這個看起來就像是啊入會就送\n\n21\n00:08:42,603 --> 00:08:42,843\n我相信你們在調查中\n\n22\n00:09:06,997 --> 00:09:31,573\n所以我要跟您談就是說我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西齁直銷但是直銷的業者這麼多家當然我相信也有一些好的啦看起來不好的容易被點出來但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家所以這一些直銷公司到底我們掌握到他們合法正派經營的程度到哪裡\n\n23\n00:09:32,914 --> 00:09:57,376\n我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展所以每一次我們都在這裡問然後每一次就拿一個產品來問你然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的他說有微量的看他的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒這個也很奇怪\n\n24\n00:09:58,357 --> 00:10:16,962\n好,那這個喝了呢都告訴你說促進代謝啦、增強免疫力啦、這個強健體魄啦我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪,然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆所以公務人員呢就直接去加入了直銷一個月月入80萬,比他上班還好賺\n\n25\n00:10:20,515 --> 00:10:20,755\n謝謝委員指教\n\n26\n00:10:47,258 --> 00:10:49,006\n謝謝不好意思我跟趙偉借一點點時間\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n450\t2733\t請第二位發言,邱議瑩召委發言。\n21260\t43857\t委員長 主委早 主委這個剛剛看了一下您的業務報告 裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處 這個聯合漲價的案子 有一個是處分宜仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子 那我不知道這個案子的處理過程跟我們現在在談\n46039\t49542\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n67219\t90791\t然後要去查處甚至要去開罰我想請教現在大家醫療院所大家普遍來講就是說所有的不管是薪資成本行政成本所有的費用全部是上漲所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情衛福部也從善如流所以取消了掛號費的上限所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價\n92552\t111175\t那衛福部馬上就跳出來說我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價我不知道這個定義就大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價你的認知上面比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立的這些醫療院所都漲價的話這個算不算聯合漲價這跟你們過去採儲醫院醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同\n119477\t138491\t主委請剪掉說明謝謝委員我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結談好要怎麼去訂這個價格如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的這個成本人士各方面的這個市場機制的考量自己訂這個掛號費這是沒有問題的可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼訂這個價格那去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院他就是\n148678\t150039\t委員會主任委員會主任\n163993\t164013\t委員會議員\n179972\t180092\t市場機制市場機制\n195871\t195971\t委員會主席\n216266\t237557\t的了解程度會到哪裡?是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告還是您現在要請要說?會給委員一個資料那最主要我們在查的不是說他帳的合不合理因為帳的合不合理就是如委員所說的他去看市場的狀況自己院所的成本競要各方面的成本所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格\n238558\t257005\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n257005\t285964\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n286064\t290306\t主委,另外我們其實一直在談這些直銷這個大概您有看到大概是上個月的新聞雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷月入80萬\n308172\t321295\t公務人員能不能去做直銷當然是不行那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷我看你們也很難查也很難管那這個大概是因為太強出頭了所以被查出來\n323030\t340973\t我也順著這個我也去買了一瓶這個叫做什麼活樂帶這個茶這個呢現在聽說他們已經下架了因為買講是講買不到原物料啦但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料啦曾經有一個女子呢三餐狂喝喝到中風\n342554\t367743\t那這個呢大概也不在你們查查的範圍之內我現在講就是說其實這一些直銷的產品常常都是我們講的一樣檢舉了一家你們才開始去查所以這麼多家的直銷公司到底他賣的產品合不合格他的營業行為合不合法其實你們很難查得到你們很難管我再來講一個\n370291\t397418\t這一家叫元珍健康這一家你知道嗎這一家元珍健康現在的問題是什麼現在還沒有說他的產品有很大的問題但是他入會的方式有很大的問題他是有一點類似像民間互助會的形態你只要加入我抽多少錢然後呢你要跟多少會你跟了這個會之後呢你要\n399331\t424824\t買公司指定塞給你的保健食品所以你看到這個截圖有一個女生說很誇張我今天要得標110會一個會是5000塊他一天要得標110會這算下來是多少然後呢利息是400到700甚至他每一個會要交1200二的服務費給公司\n428553\t455940\t這比高利貸還好賺啊?主委,像這樣的公司有沒有問題?像這樣的公司該不該查?像這樣的直銷公司有多少?公平會的掌握進度到哪裡?掌握的程度到哪裡?來,主委我跟委員說明,像這個緣真公司這家我們有到他的公司去查,他其實他的說辭是說他租給那個168公司去做這個\n457841\t458481\t那168公司又是什麼?\n482039\t500674\t議員議員議員\n500814\t521563\t直接就被所謂的這個什麼168要求要去入會這一點你們有沒有去查?他是入會可以送原真的食品那這部分實情進一步內部是不是透過一個第三方公司去從事違反這個傳銷的這些行為我們已經立案調查這個看起來就像是啊入會就送\n522603\t522843\t我相信你們在調查中\n546997\t571573\t所以我要跟您談就是說我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西齁直銷但是直銷的業者這麼多家當然我相信也有一些好的啦看起來不好的容易被點出來但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家所以這一些直銷公司到底我們掌握到他們合法正派經營的程度到哪裡\n572914\t597376\t我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展所以每一次我們都在這裡問然後每一次就拿一個產品來問你然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的他說有微量的看他的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒這個也很奇怪\n598357\t616962\t好,那這個喝了呢都告訴你說促進代謝啦、增強免疫力啦、這個強健體魄啦我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪,然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆所以公務人員呢就直接去加入了直銷一個月月入80萬,比他上班還好賺\n620515\t620755\t謝謝委員指教\n647258\t649006\t謝謝 不好意思我跟趙偉借一點點時間\n","txt":"請第二位發言,邱議瑩召委發言。\n委員長 主委早 主委這個剛剛看了一下您的業務報告 裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處 這個聯合漲價的案子 有一個是處分宜仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子 那我不知道這個案子的處理過程跟我們現在在談\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n然後要去查處甚至要去開罰我想請教現在大家醫療院所大家普遍來講就是說所有的不管是薪資成本行政成本所有的費用全部是上漲所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情衛福部也從善如流所以取消了掛號費的上限所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價\n那衛福部馬上就跳出來說我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價我不知道這個定義就大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價你的認知上面比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立的這些醫療院所都漲價的話這個算不算聯合漲價這跟你們過去採儲醫院醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同\n主委請剪掉說明謝謝委員我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結談好要怎麼去訂這個價格如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的這個成本人士各方面的這個市場機制的考量自己訂這個掛號費這是沒有問題的可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼訂這個價格那去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院他就是\n委員會主任委員會主任\n委員會議員\n市場機制市場機制\n委員會主席\n的了解程度會到哪裡?是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告還是您現在要請要說?會給委員一個資料那最主要我們在查的不是說他帳的合不合理因為帳的合不合理就是如委員所說的他去看市場的狀況自己院所的成本競要各方面的成本所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n主委,另外我們其實一直在談這些直銷這個大概您有看到大概是上個月的新聞雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷月入80萬\n公務人員能不能去做直銷當然是不行那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷我看你們也很難查也很難管那這個大概是因為太強出頭了所以被查出來\n我也順著這個我也去買了一瓶這個叫做什麼活樂帶這個茶這個呢現在聽說他們已經下架了因為買講是講買不到原物料啦但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料啦曾經有一個女子呢三餐狂喝喝到中風\n那這個呢大概也不在你們查查的範圍之內我現在講就是說其實這一些直銷的產品常常都是我們講的一樣檢舉了一家你們才開始去查所以這麼多家的直銷公司到底他賣的產品合不合格他的營業行為合不合法其實你們很難查得到你們很難管我再來講一個\n這一家叫元珍健康這一家你知道嗎這一家元珍健康現在的問題是什麼現在還沒有說他的產品有很大的問題但是他入會的方式有很大的問題他是有一點類似像民間互助會的形態你只要加入我抽多少錢然後呢你要跟多少會你跟了這個會之後呢你要\n買公司指定塞給你的保健食品所以你看到這個截圖有一個女生說很誇張我今天要得標110會一個會是5000塊他一天要得標110會這算下來是多少然後呢利息是400到700甚至他每一個會要交1200二的服務費給公司\n這比高利貸還好賺啊?主委,像這樣的公司有沒有問題?像這樣的公司該不該查?像這樣的直銷公司有多少?公平會的掌握進度到哪裡?掌握的程度到哪裡?來,主委我跟委員說明,像這個緣真公司這家我們有到他的公司去查,他其實他的說辭是說他租給那個168公司去做這個\n那168公司又是什麼?\n議員議員議員\n直接就被所謂的這個什麼168要求要去入會這一點你們有沒有去查?他是入會可以送原真的食品那這部分實情進一步內部是不是透過一個第三方公司去從事違反這個傳銷的這些行為我們已經立案調查這個看起來就像是啊入會就送\n我相信你們在調查中\n所以我要跟您談就是說我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西齁直銷但是直銷的業者這麼多家當然我相信也有一些好的啦看起來不好的容易被點出來但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家所以這一些直銷公司到底我們掌握到他們合法正派經營的程度到哪裡\n我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展所以每一次我們都在這裡問然後每一次就拿一個產品來問你然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的他說有微量的看他的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒這個也很奇怪\n好,那這個喝了呢都告訴你說促進代謝啦、增強免疫力啦、這個強健體魄啦我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪,然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆所以公務人員呢就直接去加入了直銷一個月月入80萬,比他上班還好賺\n謝謝委員指教\n謝謝 不好意思我跟趙偉借一點點時間\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.450 --> 00:02.733\n請第二位發言,邱議瑩召委發言。\n\n00:21.260 --> 00:43.857\n委員長主委早主委這個剛剛看了一下您的業務報告裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處這個聯合漲價的案子有一個是處分宜仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子那我不知道這個案子的處理過程跟我們現在在談\n\n00:46.039 --> 00:49.542\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n01:07.219 --> 01:30.791\n然後要去查處甚至要去開罰我想請教現在大家醫療院所大家普遍來講就是說所有的不管是薪資成本行政成本所有的費用全部是上漲所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情衛福部也從善如流所以取消了掛號費的上限所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價\n\n01:32.552 --> 01:51.175\n那衛福部馬上就跳出來說我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價我不知道這個定義就大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價你的認知上面比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立的這些醫療院所都漲價的話這個算不算聯合漲價這跟你們過去採儲醫院醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同\n\n01:59.477 --> 02:18.491\n主委請剪掉說明謝謝委員我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結談好要怎麼去訂這個價格如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的這個成本人士各方面的這個市場機制的考量自己訂這個掛號費這是沒有問題的可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼訂這個價格那去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院他就是\n\n02:28.678 --> 02:30.039\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n02:43.993 --> 02:44.013\n委員會議員\n\n02:59.972 --> 03:00.092\n市場機制市場機制\n\n03:15.871 --> 03:15.971\n委員會主席\n\n03:36.266 --> 03:57.557\n的了解程度會到哪裡?是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告還是您現在要請要說?會給委員一個資料那最主要我們在查的不是說他帳的合不合理因為帳的合不合理就是如委員所說的他去看市場的狀況自己院所的成本競要各方面的成本所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格\n\n04:46.064 --> 04:50.306\n主委,另外我們其實一直在談這些直銷這個大概您有看到大概是上個月的新聞雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷月入80萬\n\n05:08.172 --> 05:21.295\n公務人員能不能去做直銷當然是不行那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷我看你們也很難查也很難管那這個大概是因為太強出頭了所以被查出來\n\n05:23.030 --> 05:40.973\n我也順著這個我也去買了一瓶這個叫做什麼活樂帶這個茶這個呢現在聽說他們已經下架了因為買講是講買不到原物料啦但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料啦曾經有一個女子呢三餐狂喝喝到中風\n\n05:42.554 --> 06:07.743\n那這個呢大概也不在你們查查的範圍之內我現在講就是說其實這一些直銷的產品常常都是我們講的一樣檢舉了一家你們才開始去查所以這麼多家的直銷公司到底他賣的產品合不合格他的營業行為合不合法其實你們很難查得到你們很難管我再來講一個\n\n06:10.291 --> 06:37.418\n這一家叫元珍健康這一家你知道嗎這一家元珍健康現在的問題是什麼現在還沒有說他的產品有很大的問題但是他入會的方式有很大的問題他是有一點類似像民間互助會的形態你只要加入我抽多少錢然後呢你要跟多少會你跟了這個會之後呢你要\n\n06:39.331 --> 07:04.824\n買公司指定塞給你的保健食品所以你看到這個截圖有一個女生說很誇張我今天要得標110會一個會是5000塊他一天要得標110會這算下來是多少然後呢利息是400到700甚至他每一個會要交1200二的服務費給公司\n\n07:08.553 --> 07:35.940\n這比高利貸還好賺啊?主委,像這樣的公司有沒有問題?像這樣的公司該不該查?像這樣的直銷公司有多少?公平會的掌握進度到哪裡?掌握的程度到哪裡?來,主委我跟委員說明,像這個緣真公司這家我們有到他的公司去查,他其實他的說辭是說他租給那個168公司去做這個\n\n07:37.841 --> 07:38.481\n那168公司又是什麼?\n\n08:20.814 --> 08:41.563\n直接就被所謂的這個什麼168要求要去入會這一點你們有沒有去查?他是入會可以送原真的食品那這部分實情進一步內部是不是透過一個第三方公司去從事違反這個傳銷的這些行為我們已經立案調查這個看起來就像是啊入會就送\n\n08:42.603 --> 08:42.843\n我相信你們在調查中\n\n09:06.997 --> 09:31.573\n所以我要跟您談就是說我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西齁直銷但是直銷的業者這麼多家當然我相信也有一些好的啦看起來不好的容易被點出來但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家所以這一些直銷公司到底我們掌握到他們合法正派經營的程度到哪裡\n\n09:32.914 --> 09:57.376\n我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展所以每一次我們都在這裡問然後每一次就拿一個產品來問你然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的他說有微量的看他的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒這個也很奇怪\n\n09:58.357 --> 10:16.962\n好,那這個喝了呢都告訴你說促進代謝啦、增強免疫力啦、這個強健體魄啦我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪,然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆所以公務人員呢就直接去加入了直銷一個月月入80萬,比他上班還好賺\n\n10:20.515 --> 10:20.755\n謝謝委員指教\n\n10:47.258 --> 10:49.006\n謝謝不好意思我跟趙偉借一點點時間\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.45,"end":2.733,"text":"請第二位發言,邱議瑩召委發言。"},{"start":21.26,"end":43.857,"text":"委員長 主委早 主委這個剛剛看了一下您的業務報告 裡頭其實有一項你們過去查處 這個聯合漲價的案子 有一個是處分宜仁綜合醫院跟天成醫院合意共同調漲掛號費的案子 那我不知道這個案子的處理過程跟我們現在在談"},{"start":46.039,"end":49.542,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":67.219,"end":90.791,"text":"然後要去查處甚至要去開罰我想請教現在大家醫療院所大家普遍來講就是說所有的不管是薪資成本行政成本所有的費用全部是上漲所以希望能夠取消掛號費的上限這件事情衛福部也從善如流所以取消了掛號費的上限所以很多的醫療院所大概已經在醞釀要漲價"},{"start":92.552,"end":111.175,"text":"那衛福部馬上就跳出來說我要來看看你們是不是有聯合漲價我不知道這個定義就大家醞釀漲價跟你所謂的聯合漲價你的認知上面比如說現在如果大概六成以上的私立的這些醫療院所都漲價的話這個算不算聯合漲價這跟你們過去採儲醫院醫院跟天成醫院有什麼不同"},{"start":119.477,"end":138.491,"text":"主委請剪掉說明謝謝委員我們查的聯合漲價是指院所之間橫向勾結談好要怎麼去訂這個價格如果是個別的醫療院所根據自己的這個成本人士各方面的這個市場機制的考量自己訂這個掛號費這是沒有問題的可是不能聯合在一起講好要怎麼訂這個價格那去年我們處罰桃園這兩家醫院他就是"},{"start":148.678,"end":150.039,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":163.993,"end":164.013,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":179.972,"end":180.092,"text":"市場機制市場機制"},{"start":195.871,"end":195.971,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":216.266,"end":237.557,"text":"的了解程度會到哪裡?是不是會後能夠請主委您再給我一份詳細的報告還是您現在要請要說?會給委員一個資料那最主要我們在查的不是說他帳的合不合理因為帳的合不合理就是如委員所說的他去看市場的狀況自己院所的成本競要各方面的成本所以我們觀察的是有沒有聯合一起談價格"},{"start":238.558,"end":257.005,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":257.005,"end":285.964,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":286.064,"end":290.306,"text":"主委,另外我們其實一直在談這些直銷這個大概您有看到大概是上個月的新聞雲林的政風處有一個女科員做直銷月入80萬"},{"start":308.172,"end":321.295,"text":"公務人員能不能去做直銷當然是不行那到底有多少公務人員私下去做直銷我看你們也很難查也很難管那這個大概是因為太強出頭了所以被查出來"},{"start":323.03,"end":340.973,"text":"我也順著這個我也去買了一瓶這個叫做什麼活樂帶這個茶這個呢現在聽說他們已經下架了因為買講是講買不到原物料啦但我不知道是不是真的買不到原物料啦曾經有一個女子呢三餐狂喝喝到中風"},{"start":342.554,"end":367.743,"text":"那這個呢大概也不在你們查查的範圍之內我現在講就是說其實這一些直銷的產品常常都是我們講的一樣檢舉了一家你們才開始去查所以這麼多家的直銷公司到底他賣的產品合不合格他的營業行為合不合法其實你們很難查得到你們很難管我再來講一個"},{"start":370.291,"end":397.418,"text":"這一家叫元珍健康這一家你知道嗎這一家元珍健康現在的問題是什麼現在還沒有說他的產品有很大的問題但是他入會的方式有很大的問題他是有一點類似像民間互助會的形態你只要加入我抽多少錢然後呢你要跟多少會你跟了這個會之後呢你要"},{"start":399.331,"end":424.824,"text":"買公司指定塞給你的保健食品所以你看到這個截圖有一個女生說很誇張我今天要得標110會一個會是5000塊他一天要得標110會這算下來是多少然後呢利息是400到700甚至他每一個會要交1200二的服務費給公司"},{"start":428.553,"end":455.94,"text":"這比高利貸還好賺啊?主委,像這樣的公司有沒有問題?像這樣的公司該不該查?像這樣的直銷公司有多少?公平會的掌握進度到哪裡?掌握的程度到哪裡?來,主委我跟委員說明,像這個緣真公司這家我們有到他的公司去查,他其實他的說辭是說他租給那個168公司去做這個"},{"start":457.841,"end":458.481,"text":"那168公司又是什麼?"},{"start":482.039,"end":500.674,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":500.814,"end":521.563,"text":"直接就被所謂的這個什麼168要求要去入會這一點你們有沒有去查?他是入會可以送原真的食品那這部分實情進一步內部是不是透過一個第三方公司去從事違反這個傳銷的這些行為我們已經立案調查這個看起來就像是啊入會就送"},{"start":522.603,"end":522.843,"text":"我相信你們在調查中"},{"start":546.997,"end":571.573,"text":"所以我要跟您談就是說我們每一次都在講這些直銷的東西齁直銷但是直銷的業者這麼多家當然我相信也有一些好的啦看起來不好的容易被點出來但是你們其實就是人家點一家你們查一家所以這一些直銷公司到底我們掌握到他們合法正派經營的程度到哪裡"},{"start":572.914,"end":597.376,"text":"我到目前為止其實都看不出來公平會在這一方面的進展所以每一次我們都在這裡問然後每一次就拿一個產品來問你然後你們就會開始去查這家公司到底合不合法比如說這個叫什麼紫茶的他說有微量的看他的成品上面其實也沒有咖啡因可是會讓人家喝到咖啡因中毒這個也很奇怪"},{"start":598.357,"end":616.962,"text":"好,那這個喝了呢都告訴你說促進代謝啦、增強免疫力啦、這個強健體魄啦我就覺得這種東西是非常非常的奇怪,然後這個產品這家公司賣了一大堆所以公務人員呢就直接去加入了直銷一個月月入80萬,比他上班還好賺"},{"start":620.515,"end":620.755,"text":"謝謝委員指教"},{"start":647.258,"end":649.006,"text":"謝謝 不好意思我跟趙偉借一點點時間"}]}}}}