{"id":149616,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149616","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300a8cf82bfe79bce4fee83bb1dd0927c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6b36baeae8c032c655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"09:30:54 - 09:39:38","影片長度":"00:08:44","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":524,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:39:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:30:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":187,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時31分）謝謝主席，請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：早！最近人民滿苦的，電價要漲，現在連掛號費都要漲了，重要的防線就是公平會，請公平會這防線一定要守住，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我問你比較具體的，今天早上最新的新聞，光是雙北（臺北及新北市）就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲掛號費了，其中新北市170家、臺北市95家。針對這個事情，主委，公平會要查嗎、會查嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會去瞭解這些漲價的情形，因為每一個醫療院所漲價的原因很多，如果是講好要一起漲、要漲多少，這個在公平法絕對不允許。"],["張委員啓楷：就像你剛剛說的，如果要查，依照你們的規定就是有沒有橫向、有沒有區域性，像剛才說桃園那兩間被你們罰，它就有區域性、有橫向聯繫。現在看起來區域性有了，看起來滿多的，是不是去查一下有沒有聯合行為？"],["李主任委員鎂：這我們來瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你們很明確地跟我們的全國民眾講，公平會現在會去瞭解雙北為什麼這麼多醫療院所準備要漲價了。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們會後會去瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：這個防線要守住，我們希望很快有結果，回去馬上就做了，對不對？會後就去查！"],["李主任委員鎂：會，會去瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：會後就去查，OK？"],["李主任委員鎂：會去瞭解這些醫療院所，因為有一些是關係企業，或者科別、地理區域各方面都不太一樣，我們會來瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，謝謝。現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保費會不會一窩蜂，就是社會學跟心理學講的破窗理論，你現在這件事情查不好的話，這兩百多家一漲，全國就漲了，人民真的很苦，一定要守住。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我具體的問你，除了要去查新北跟臺北這個之外，你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動？除了你剛剛講的請衛福部要注意之外，你們有做了什麼事情？"],["李主任委員鎂：第一個就是我們全省各地的地方衛生單位都可以合作，如果在他們所轄的醫療院所有不合理或是異常的情況，我們會有一個緊密的合作機制。我們同仁方面，因為掛號費多少，基本上是透明的，網路上可以查，透過這些機制，我們也可以來瞭解，所以科別、地理區域、是不是關係企業，還有它的漲價情況，這些都是我們會掌握的問題。"],["張委員啓楷：民眾感受最深嘛！所以民眾檢舉的話，你們這邊是不是有一個什麼反托拉斯基金？"],["李主任委員鎂：謝謝委員，我們歡迎檢舉，檢舉獎金很高，只要讓我們啟動調查，最低就從10萬塊起跳，我們會根據檢舉人提供證據的價值，分別有10萬到100萬、10萬到1,000萬，假設被我們查到超過5億以上，獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳，我們的檢舉電話2351-0022，歡迎各界檢舉。"],["張委員啓楷：所以就是民眾現在去看病發現掛號費漲太高或是不合理，可能有聯合漲價的行為，就跟你們檢舉。你說最高的是1,000萬？"],["李主任委員鎂：個別漲價不是我們去規範的……"],["張委員啓楷：對，看有沒有聯合行為嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：但是有聯合行為我們會查。"],["張委員啓楷：可是他只要注意到有問題，他就當吹哨者嘛！民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了。你說最高是1,000萬？"],["李主任委員鎂：就是民眾來檢舉，我們有合理懷疑且啟動調查的話，最低就是10萬塊，最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證，我們分三級，有幫助我們調查的這種證據是10萬到100萬；如果這個證據是間接證據，可以10萬到1,000萬；如果是直接證據，一目瞭然就得到聯合的證據，那就是10萬到2,000萬，會看我們罰鍰的額度來決定獎金的多少。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以現在是全民跟公平會攜手合作，防止不當的漲價，包括最高獎金有30%？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們如果罰到5億以上，最高獎金是20%，可以到1億，就是獎金額度的20%。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，公平會一定要守好這個防線。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：另外一個我要問電價的問題，這個防線也是很重要的。這個案子公平會是不是神助攻？啓楷這段時間一直在提醒，電費要漲之前，好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個，9家民營買電是不是買太貴，以及太陽能發生那麼多弊案，到底裡面有沒有買太貴、弊案怎麼發生？要重新去議價。公平會跟9家民營電廠的官司，現在公平會贏了，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為當時我們是處分9家有聯合的行為，違法聯合這個事實行為法院是認定的，這一部分我們是勝訴，只是我們每一家要罰多少錢，法院認為我們這個罰鍰的認定還有問題，所以針對罰鍰的部分，請我們再斟酌。"],["張委員啓楷：所以等於經過法院長久的訴訟之後，法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠，甚至太陽能的購電公司好好去議價，對不對？現在只是台電要漲價之前，是不是應該好好去談、先去議價？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想台電跟電廠之間也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題，這部分我們不是很清楚，但是針對9家民營電廠在當時、十幾年前聯合起來拒絕跟台電重啟契約的談判，我們是針對這個聯合……"],["張委員啓楷：這9家民營電廠不只是占台電的便宜，他們是占我們人民的便宜，現在人民在反感什麼？現在台電一直虧損，包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素，虧損完之後，漲電價了，人民要付錢，結果民間業者賺了錢。公平會這個助攻非常重要，你們罰了它錢，現在經過長久的訴訟，歷經十幾年，最近定案了，最高行政法院包括憲法法庭都判你們贏，對不對？就是他們有聯合行為，這個已經是確認了，接下來要問的是，你們要罰它多少錢？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為這個案子打了很久的時間，目前還在行政訴訟當中，在罰鍰的部分，法院希望當事人能有一些磋商的機制，目前在訴訟法上進行當中。"],["張委員啓楷：這個案子很重要是因為現在要漲電價了，所以本席今天為什麼要問這麼重要的問題？當初9家民營電廠跟台電說，我的燃煤價格、我的天然氣漲了，所以你要多給我一點錢。可是當台電提出來說，那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候，後來台電讓它那邊漲了，可是它卻食言而肥，它是聯合行為嘛！所以這個對民眾來講是非常重要的，台電應該積極去爭取，現在不是急著漲電價的時候，應該先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底合約要怎麼訂？因為它被你們處分了，如果一年有十億到二十億，十幾年下來有一、兩百億再回到台電，那就不用漲人民的價格了，對不對？你們神助攻，我們現在呼籲台電要去做這件事情，現在你們當務之急，就是好好的跟9家民營電廠弄清楚，它到底要罰多少錢？你們本來是要罰63.2億，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：總共加起來。"],["張委員啓楷：現在改罰60.7億，什麼時候可以確定要罰多少錢？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想這個要看行政法院處理的情形跟進度。"],["張委員啓楷：最新的進度很明確，它有聯合壟斷的行為，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：聯合事實是確定的，但罰鍰到底多少還沒確定。"],["張委員啓楷：只剩罰鍰，那大概多久以內罰鍰可以確認？"],["李主任委員鎂：據我們的瞭解，3月份法院會再開庭，那就看法院審理的速度是怎麼樣。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝公平會的神助攻，這個防線一定要守住，不管是掛號費或是電價，幫人民守住這個防線。謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。","接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:44,907\n最近人民蠻苦的電價要漲現在連掛號費都要漲了那重要的防線就是公平會請公平會這個防線一定要守住好不好我問你比較具體的今天早上通信的新聞雙北光是雙北台北市到新北市就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲\n\n3\n00:01:09,036 --> 00:01:13,540\n公共交易要一起漲,要漲多少?這個在公平法決定不允許。\n\n4\n00:01:28,915 --> 00:01:29,235\n這我們會來瞭解\n\n5\n00:01:48,894 --> 00:02:04,125\n去瞭解這些醫療院所﹖因為有一些是關係企業﹖或者科別﹖地理區域﹖各方面都不太一樣﹖我們會來瞭解那現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保會會會一或方在社會學跟心理講就所謂破窗理論\n\n6\n00:02:05,006 --> 00:02:21,059\n你現在這個事查不好誰?200多家一漲,全國就漲了。人民真的很苦,好不好?一定要鎖住。那我們具體的問你,除了要去查新北跟雙北這個之外,你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動?除了你剛剛講的,請衛福部要注意之外,你們有做了什麼事情?\n\n7\n00:02:21,779 --> 00:02:44,166\n第一個就是說我們全省各地的這個地方的衛生單位都可以合作如果在他們所轄的這些醫療院所有這個不合理的或者是有異常的情況我們會緊密有一個這個合作的機制那當然我們同仁因為掛號費多少基本上是透明的網路上可以查透過這些機制我們也可以來了解所以科別\n\n8\n00:02:47,427 --> 00:02:47,447\n獲得獎項\n\n9\n00:03:03,158 --> 00:03:10,083\n議員,我們歡迎檢舉。檢舉獎金很高,只要讓我們啓動調查,最低就從10萬塊起跳。我們會根據檢舉人提供的證據價值,分別有10萬到100萬,10萬到1000萬。假設被我們查到超過5億以上,獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳我們的檢舉電話23510022,歡迎各界檢舉。\n\n10\n00:03:33,619 --> 00:03:54,538\n所以就是民眾現在在看沒發現國安會漲太高了或者是不合理可能有聯合壟斷這個行為聯合漲價就跟你們檢舉你說最高的是一千萬就是漲價、個別漲價不是我們去規範但是有聯合行為我們會查可是他只要注意到有問題他就當吹哨者嘛對不對民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了你說統管的是一千萬\n\n11\n00:03:55,259 --> 00:03:59,063\n我們這樣,你就嚇唬我們,我記得合理懷疑,啓動調查最低就10萬塊,最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證,我們分3級,有幫助我們調查的這種證據,我們10萬到100萬。\n\n12\n00:04:13,038 --> 00:04:13,898\n所以現在是全民跟\n\n13\n00:04:30,487 --> 00:04:45,811\n公平會七所合作防止這個不當的漲價包括什麼最高的這個獎金有30%我們如果發到5億以上最高獎金可以是20%最高獎金可以到1億就是20%獎金的額度20%另外一個我問電價的問題這個防線也是很重要的\n\n14\n00:04:53,812 --> 00:05:17,850\n這個案子公平會是不是神助攻?齊凱這番聲音是在提醒電費要漲之前好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個九家民營電廠買電是不是買太貴?跟太陽能發生那麼多弊案到底裡面有沒有買太貴?弊案怎麼發生?要重新去議價公平會現在跟九家民營電廠的官司現在公平會贏了是不是?\n\n15\n00:05:18,683 --> 00:05:19,804\n所以等於經過法院包括\n\n16\n00:05:41,279 --> 00:06:00,969\n的訴訟之後,法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠甚至太陽能這些過電公司好好去談溢價對不對?現在只是台電要漲價之前是不是應該好好去談這些溢價?我想台電跟電廠之間的一些也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題這部分我們\n\n17\n00:06:02,971 --> 00:06:28,268\n但是針對九家民營電廠在當時十幾年前他們聯合起來拒絕跟台電這個重啓這個契約的這個談判九家民營電廠他不只是佔台電的便宜他是佔我們人民的便宜現在人民在反感的是什麼現在台電一直虧損就包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素虧損完之後人民要付錢上電價了結果民間的\n\n18\n00:06:29,289 --> 00:06:31,791\n公平委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n19\n00:06:46,601 --> 00:07:12,763\n我們目前是因為這個案子打了這個很久的時間目前還在行政訴訟當中那在這個罰款的部分法院希望當事人能不能有一些磋商的機制那目前在這個訴訟法上在進行當中這個案子很重要是因為現在漲電價了所以本席今天為什麼問這麼重要的一個問題當初九家民營電廠跟\n\n20\n00:07:13,868 --> 00:07:28,925\n台電講說我的燃煤價格我的天然氣漲了所以你要多給我一點錢可是這邊當台電提出來說那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候後來台電讓他這邊漲了可是他食言而悔了他還聯合行為所以這個是對\n\n21\n00:07:30,305 --> 00:07:47,446\n民眾來講是非常重要,台電應該積極去爭取,現在不是急著漲電價,先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底這個合約要怎麼定,如果一年因為他被你們處分這個,一年如果有十億到二十億,十幾年下來有一兩百億再回到台電,那就不用上人民的價格了對不對\n\n22\n00:07:49,871 --> 00:08:13,420\n你們神速攻我們現在呼籲臺電要去做這件事情那現在你們當務之急就是好好跟九家民營店長弄清楚他到底要罰多少錢你們本來是要罰63.21對不對總共加起來那現在改罰60.7什麼時候可以確定到底要罰多少錢我想這個要看這個法院行政法院這個處理的情形跟進度就是最新的進度很明確他有聯合壟斷的行為\n\n23\n00:08:14,821 --> 00:08:14,841\n謝謝張啓楷\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t23864\t蔡委員發言謝謝主席請理事委來請理事委委員早早\n25529\t44907\t最近人民蠻苦的電價要漲現在連掛號費都要漲了那重要的防線就是公平會請公平會這個防線一定要守住好不好我問你比較具體的今天早上通信的新聞雙北光是雙北台北市到新北市就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲\n48660\t68251\t議員議員\n69036\t73540\t公共交易要一起漲,要漲多少?這個在公平法決定不允許。\n88915\t89235\t這我們會來瞭解\n108894\t124125\t去瞭解這些醫療院所﹖因為有一些是關係企業﹖或者科別﹖地理區域﹖各方面都不太一樣﹖我們會來瞭解那現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保會會會一或方在社會學跟心理講就所謂破窗理論\n125006\t141059\t你現在這個事查不好誰?200多家一漲,全國就漲了。人民真的很苦,好不好?一定要鎖住。那我們具體的問你,除了要去查新北跟雙北這個之外,你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動?除了你剛剛講的,請衛福部要注意之外,你們有做了什麼事情?\n141779\t164166\t第一個就是說我們全省各地的這個地方的衛生單位都可以合作如果在他們所轄的這些醫療院所有這個不合理的或者是有異常的情況我們會緊密有一個這個合作的機制那當然我們同仁因為掛號費多少基本上是透明的網路上可以查透過這些機制我們也可以來了解所以科別\n167427\t167447\t獲得獎項\n183158\t190083\t議員,我們歡迎檢舉。檢舉獎金很高,只要讓我們啓動調查,最低就從10萬塊起跳。我們會根據檢舉人提供的證據價值,分別有10萬到100萬,10萬到1000萬。假設被我們查到超過5億以上,獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳我們的檢舉電話23510022,歡迎各界檢舉。\n213619\t234538\t所以就是民眾現在在看沒發現國安會漲太高了或者是不合理可能有聯合壟斷這個行為聯合漲價就跟你們檢舉你說最高的是一千萬就是漲價、個別漲價不是我們去規範但是有聯合行為我們會查可是他只要注意到有問題他就當吹哨者嘛對不對民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了你說統管的是一千萬\n235259\t239063\t我們這樣,你就嚇唬我們,我記得合理懷疑,啓動調查最低就10萬塊,最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證,我們分3級,有幫助我們調查的這種證據,我們10萬到100萬。\n253038\t253898\t所以現在是全民跟\n270487\t285811\t公平會七所合作防止這個不當的漲價包括什麼最高的這個獎金有30%我們如果發到5億以上最高獎金可以是20%最高獎金可以到1億就是20%獎金的額度20%另外一個我問電價的問題這個防線也是很重要的\n293812\t317850\t這個案子公平會是不是神助攻?齊凱這番聲音是在提醒電費要漲之前好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個九家民營電廠買電是不是買太貴?跟太陽能發生那麼多弊案到底裡面有沒有買太貴?弊案怎麼發生?要重新去議價公平會現在跟九家民營電廠的官司現在公平會贏了是不是?\n318683\t319804\t所以等於經過法院包括\n341279\t360969\t的訴訟之後,法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠甚至太陽能這些過電公司好好去談溢價對不對?現在只是台電要漲價之前是不是應該好好去談這些溢價?我想台電跟電廠之間的一些也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題這部分我們\n362971\t388268\t但是針對九家民營電廠在當時十幾年前他們聯合起來拒絕跟台電這個重啓這個契約的這個談判九家民營電廠他不只是佔台電的便宜他是佔我們人民的便宜現在人民在反感的是什麼現在台電一直虧損就包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素虧損完之後人民要付錢上電價了結果民間的\n389289\t391791\t公平委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n406601\t432763\t我們目前是因為這個案子打了這個很久的時間目前還在行政訴訟當中那在這個罰款的部分法院希望當事人能不能有一些磋商的機制那目前在這個訴訟法上在進行當中這個案子很重要是因為現在漲電價了所以本席今天為什麼問這麼重要的一個問題當初九家民營電廠跟\n433868\t448925\t台電講說我的燃煤價格我的天然氣漲了所以你要多給我一點錢可是這邊當台電提出來說那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候後來台電讓他這邊漲了可是他食言而悔了他還聯合行為所以這個是對\n450305\t467446\t民眾來講是非常重要,台電應該積極去爭取,現在不是急著漲電價,先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底這個合約要怎麼定,如果一年因為他被你們處分這個,一年如果有十億到二十億,十幾年下來有一兩百億再回到台電,那就不用上人民的價格了對不對\n469871\t493420\t你們神速攻我們現在呼籲臺電要去做這件事情那現在你們當務之急就是好好跟九家民營店長弄清楚他到底要罰多少錢你們本來是要罰63.21對不對總共加起來那現在改罰60.7什麼時候可以確定到底要罰多少錢我想這個要看這個法院行政法院這個處理的情形跟進度就是最新的進度很明確他有聯合壟斷的行為\n494821\t494841\t謝謝張啓楷\n","txt":"蔡委員發言謝謝主席請理事委來請理事委委員早早\n最近人民蠻苦的電價要漲現在連掛號費都要漲了那重要的防線就是公平會請公平會這個防線一定要守住好不好我問你比較具體的今天早上通信的新聞雙北光是雙北台北市到新北市就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲\n議員議員\n公共交易要一起漲,要漲多少?這個在公平法決定不允許。\n這我們會來瞭解\n去瞭解這些醫療院所﹖因為有一些是關係企業﹖或者科別﹖地理區域﹖各方面都不太一樣﹖我們會來瞭解那現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保會會會一或方在社會學跟心理講就所謂破窗理論\n你現在這個事查不好誰?200多家一漲,全國就漲了。人民真的很苦,好不好?一定要鎖住。那我們具體的問你,除了要去查新北跟雙北這個之外,你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動?除了你剛剛講的,請衛福部要注意之外,你們有做了什麼事情?\n第一個就是說我們全省各地的這個地方的衛生單位都可以合作如果在他們所轄的這些醫療院所有這個不合理的或者是有異常的情況我們會緊密有一個這個合作的機制那當然我們同仁因為掛號費多少基本上是透明的網路上可以查透過這些機制我們也可以來了解所以科別\n獲得獎項\n議員,我們歡迎檢舉。檢舉獎金很高,只要讓我們啓動調查,最低就從10萬塊起跳。我們會根據檢舉人提供的證據價值,分別有10萬到100萬,10萬到1000萬。假設被我們查到超過5億以上,獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳我們的檢舉電話23510022,歡迎各界檢舉。\n所以就是民眾現在在看沒發現國安會漲太高了或者是不合理可能有聯合壟斷這個行為聯合漲價就跟你們檢舉你說最高的是一千萬就是漲價、個別漲價不是我們去規範但是有聯合行為我們會查可是他只要注意到有問題他就當吹哨者嘛對不對民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了你說統管的是一千萬\n我們這樣,你就嚇唬我們,我記得合理懷疑,啓動調查最低就10萬塊,最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證,我們分3級,有幫助我們調查的這種證據,我們10萬到100萬。\n所以現在是全民跟\n公平會七所合作防止這個不當的漲價包括什麼最高的這個獎金有30%我們如果發到5億以上最高獎金可以是20%最高獎金可以到1億就是20%獎金的額度20%另外一個我問電價的問題這個防線也是很重要的\n這個案子公平會是不是神助攻?齊凱這番聲音是在提醒電費要漲之前好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個九家民營電廠買電是不是買太貴?跟太陽能發生那麼多弊案到底裡面有沒有買太貴?弊案怎麼發生?要重新去議價公平會現在跟九家民營電廠的官司現在公平會贏了是不是?\n所以等於經過法院包括\n的訴訟之後,法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠甚至太陽能這些過電公司好好去談溢價對不對?現在只是台電要漲價之前是不是應該好好去談這些溢價?我想台電跟電廠之間的一些也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題這部分我們\n但是針對九家民營電廠在當時十幾年前他們聯合起來拒絕跟台電這個重啓這個契約的這個談判九家民營電廠他不只是佔台電的便宜他是佔我們人民的便宜現在人民在反感的是什麼現在台電一直虧損就包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素虧損完之後人民要付錢上電價了結果民間的\n公平委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n我們目前是因為這個案子打了這個很久的時間目前還在行政訴訟當中那在這個罰款的部分法院希望當事人能不能有一些磋商的機制那目前在這個訴訟法上在進行當中這個案子很重要是因為現在漲電價了所以本席今天為什麼問這麼重要的一個問題當初九家民營電廠跟\n台電講說我的燃煤價格我的天然氣漲了所以你要多給我一點錢可是這邊當台電提出來說那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候後來台電讓他這邊漲了可是他食言而悔了他還聯合行為所以這個是對\n民眾來講是非常重要,台電應該積極去爭取,現在不是急著漲電價,先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底這個合約要怎麼定,如果一年因為他被你們處分這個,一年如果有十億到二十億,十幾年下來有一兩百億再回到台電,那就不用上人民的價格了對不對\n你們神速攻我們現在呼籲臺電要去做這件事情那現在你們當務之急就是好好跟九家民營店長弄清楚他到底要罰多少錢你們本來是要罰63.21對不對總共加起來那現在改罰60.7什麼時候可以確定到底要罰多少錢我想這個要看這個法院行政法院這個處理的情形跟進度就是最新的進度很明確他有聯合壟斷的行為\n謝謝張啓楷\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 --> 00:23.864\n蔡委員發言謝謝主席請理事委來請理事委委員早早\n\n00:25.529 --> 00:44.907\n最近人民蠻苦的電價要漲現在連掛號費都要漲了那重要的防線就是公平會請公平會這個防線一定要守住好不好我問你比較具體的今天早上通信的新聞雙北光是雙北台北市到新北市就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲\n\n01:09.036 --> 01:13.540\n公共交易要一起漲,要漲多少?這個在公平法決定不允許。\n\n01:28.915 --> 01:29.235\n這我們會來瞭解\n\n01:48.894 --> 02:04.125\n去瞭解這些醫療院所﹖因為有一些是關係企業﹖或者科別﹖地理區域﹖各方面都不太一樣﹖我們會來瞭解那現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保會會會一或方在社會學跟心理講就所謂破窗理論\n\n02:05.006 --> 02:21.059\n你現在這個事查不好誰?200多家一漲,全國就漲了。人民真的很苦,好不好?一定要鎖住。那我們具體的問你,除了要去查新北跟雙北這個之外,你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動?除了你剛剛講的,請衛福部要注意之外,你們有做了什麼事情?\n\n02:21.779 --> 02:44.166\n第一個就是說我們全省各地的這個地方的衛生單位都可以合作如果在他們所轄的這些醫療院所有這個不合理的或者是有異常的情況我們會緊密有一個這個合作的機制那當然我們同仁因為掛號費多少基本上是透明的網路上可以查透過這些機制我們也可以來了解所以科別\n\n02:47.427 --> 02:47.447\n獲得獎項\n\n03:03.158 --> 03:10.083\n議員,我們歡迎檢舉。檢舉獎金很高,只要讓我們啓動調查,最低就從10萬塊起跳。我們會根據檢舉人提供的證據價值,分別有10萬到100萬,10萬到1000萬。假設被我們查到超過5億以上,獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳我們的檢舉電話23510022,歡迎各界檢舉。\n\n03:33.619 --> 03:54.538\n所以就是民眾現在在看沒發現國安會漲太高了或者是不合理可能有聯合壟斷這個行為聯合漲價就跟你們檢舉你說最高的是一千萬就是漲價、個別漲價不是我們去規範但是有聯合行為我們會查可是他只要注意到有問題他就當吹哨者嘛對不對民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了你說統管的是一千萬\n\n03:55.259 --> 03:59.063\n我們這樣,你就嚇唬我們,我記得合理懷疑,啓動調查最低就10萬塊,最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證,我們分3級,有幫助我們調查的這種證據,我們10萬到100萬。\n\n04:13.038 --> 04:13.898\n所以現在是全民跟\n\n04:30.487 --> 04:45.811\n公平會七所合作防止這個不當的漲價包括什麼最高的這個獎金有30%我們如果發到5億以上最高獎金可以是20%最高獎金可以到1億就是20%獎金的額度20%另外一個我問電價的問題這個防線也是很重要的\n\n04:53.812 --> 05:17.850\n這個案子公平會是不是神助攻?齊凱這番聲音是在提醒電費要漲之前好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個九家民營電廠買電是不是買太貴?跟太陽能發生那麼多弊案到底裡面有沒有買太貴?弊案怎麼發生?要重新去議價公平會現在跟九家民營電廠的官司現在公平會贏了是不是?\n\n05:18.683 --> 05:19.804\n所以等於經過法院包括\n\n05:41.279 --> 06:00.969\n的訴訟之後,法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠甚至太陽能這些過電公司好好去談溢價對不對?現在只是台電要漲價之前是不是應該好好去談這些溢價?我想台電跟電廠之間的一些也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題這部分我們\n\n06:02.971 --> 06:28.268\n但是針對九家民營電廠在當時十幾年前他們聯合起來拒絕跟台電這個重啓這個契約的這個談判九家民營電廠他不只是佔台電的便宜他是佔我們人民的便宜現在人民在反感的是什麼現在台電一直虧損就包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素虧損完之後人民要付錢上電價了結果民間的\n\n06:29.289 --> 06:31.791\n公平委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n06:46.601 --> 07:12.763\n我們目前是因為這個案子打了這個很久的時間目前還在行政訴訟當中那在這個罰款的部分法院希望當事人能不能有一些磋商的機制那目前在這個訴訟法上在進行當中這個案子很重要是因為現在漲電價了所以本席今天為什麼問這麼重要的一個問題當初九家民營電廠跟\n\n07:13.868 --> 07:28.925\n台電講說我的燃煤價格我的天然氣漲了所以你要多給我一點錢可是這邊當台電提出來說那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候後來台電讓他這邊漲了可是他食言而悔了他還聯合行為所以這個是對\n\n07:30.305 --> 07:47.446\n民眾來講是非常重要,台電應該積極去爭取,現在不是急著漲電價,先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底這個合約要怎麼定,如果一年因為他被你們處分這個,一年如果有十億到二十億,十幾年下來有一兩百億再回到台電,那就不用上人民的價格了對不對\n\n07:49.871 --> 08:13.420\n你們神速攻我們現在呼籲臺電要去做這件事情那現在你們當務之急就是好好跟九家民營店長弄清楚他到底要罰多少錢你們本來是要罰63.21對不對總共加起來那現在改罰60.7什麼時候可以確定到底要罰多少錢我想這個要看這個法院行政法院這個處理的情形跟進度就是最新的進度很明確他有聯合壟斷的行為\n\n08:14.821 --> 08:14.841\n謝謝張啓楷\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.083,"end":23.864,"text":"蔡委員發言謝謝主席請理事委來請理事委委員早早"},{"start":25.529,"end":44.907,"text":"最近人民蠻苦的電價要漲現在連掛號費都要漲了那重要的防線就是公平會請公平會這個防線一定要守住好不好我問你比較具體的今天早上通信的新聞雙北光是雙北台北市到新北市就有265家的醫療院所準備要漲"},{"start":48.66,"end":68.251,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":69.036,"end":73.54,"text":"公共交易要一起漲,要漲多少?這個在公平法決定不允許。"},{"start":88.915,"end":89.235,"text":"這我們會來瞭解"},{"start":108.894,"end":124.125,"text":"去瞭解這些醫療院所﹖因為有一些是關係企業﹖或者科別﹖地理區域﹖各方面都不太一樣﹖我們會來瞭解那現在看起來人民最關心的就是健保會會會一或方在社會學跟心理講就所謂破窗理論"},{"start":125.006,"end":141.059,"text":"你現在這個事查不好誰?200多家一漲,全國就漲了。人民真的很苦,好不好?一定要鎖住。那我們具體的問你,除了要去查新北跟雙北這個之外,你們有沒有什麼很具體的動作、具體的行動?除了你剛剛講的,請衛福部要注意之外,你們有做了什麼事情?"},{"start":141.779,"end":164.166,"text":"第一個就是說我們全省各地的這個地方的衛生單位都可以合作如果在他們所轄的這些醫療院所有這個不合理的或者是有異常的情況我們會緊密有一個這個合作的機制那當然我們同仁因為掛號費多少基本上是透明的網路上可以查透過這些機制我們也可以來了解所以科別"},{"start":167.427,"end":167.447,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":183.158,"end":190.083,"text":"議員,我們歡迎檢舉。檢舉獎金很高,只要讓我們啓動調查,最低就從10萬塊起跳。我們會根據檢舉人提供的證據價值,分別有10萬到100萬,10萬到1000萬。假設被我們查到超過5億以上,獎金可以到1億。我也在這裡跟各位宣傳我們的檢舉電話23510022,歡迎各界檢舉。"},{"start":213.619,"end":234.538,"text":"所以就是民眾現在在看沒發現國安會漲太高了或者是不合理可能有聯合壟斷這個行為聯合漲價就跟你們檢舉你說最高的是一千萬就是漲價、個別漲價不是我們去規範但是有聯合行為我們會查可是他只要注意到有問題他就當吹哨者嘛對不對民眾就可以跟你們檢舉了你說統管的是一千萬"},{"start":235.259,"end":239.063,"text":"我們這樣,你就嚇唬我們,我記得合理懷疑,啓動調查最低就10萬塊,最高可以到1億元。如果他有具體的事證,我們分3級,有幫助我們調查的這種證據,我們10萬到100萬。"},{"start":253.038,"end":253.898,"text":"所以現在是全民跟"},{"start":270.487,"end":285.811,"text":"公平會七所合作防止這個不當的漲價包括什麼最高的這個獎金有30%我們如果發到5億以上最高獎金可以是20%最高獎金可以到1億就是20%獎金的額度20%另外一個我問電價的問題這個防線也是很重要的"},{"start":293.812,"end":317.85,"text":"這個案子公平會是不是神助攻?齊凱這番聲音是在提醒電費要漲之前好好去跟民間的電廠檢討兩個九家民營電廠買電是不是買太貴?跟太陽能發生那麼多弊案到底裡面有沒有買太貴?弊案怎麼發生?要重新去議價公平會現在跟九家民營電廠的官司現在公平會贏了是不是?"},{"start":318.683,"end":319.804,"text":"所以等於經過法院包括"},{"start":341.279,"end":360.969,"text":"的訴訟之後,法院認定台電是可以去跟這些民間電廠甚至太陽能這些過電公司好好去談溢價對不對?現在只是台電要漲價之前是不是應該好好去談這些溢價?我想台電跟電廠之間的一些也許有一些訴訟或是有一些契約的問題這部分我們"},{"start":362.971,"end":388.268,"text":"但是針對九家民營電廠在當時十幾年前他們聯合起來拒絕跟台電這個重啓這個契約的這個談判九家民營電廠他不只是佔台電的便宜他是佔我們人民的便宜現在人民在反感的是什麼現在台電一直虧損就包括這也是造成虧損的一個重要因素虧損完之後人民要付錢上電價了結果民間的"},{"start":389.289,"end":391.791,"text":"公平委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":406.601,"end":432.763,"text":"我們目前是因為這個案子打了這個很久的時間目前還在行政訴訟當中那在這個罰款的部分法院希望當事人能不能有一些磋商的機制那目前在這個訴訟法上在進行當中這個案子很重要是因為現在漲電價了所以本席今天為什麼問這麼重要的一個問題當初九家民營電廠跟"},{"start":433.868,"end":448.925,"text":"台電講說我的燃煤價格我的天然氣漲了所以你要多給我一點錢可是這邊當台電提出來說那你的利息要從8%降到2%的時候後來台電讓他這邊漲了可是他食言而悔了他還聯合行為所以這個是對"},{"start":450.305,"end":467.446,"text":"民眾來講是非常重要,台電應該積極去爭取,現在不是急著漲電價,先去看看跟9家民營電廠到底這個合約要怎麼定,如果一年因為他被你們處分這個,一年如果有十億到二十億,十幾年下來有一兩百億再回到台電,那就不用上人民的價格了對不對"},{"start":469.871,"end":493.42,"text":"你們神速攻我們現在呼籲臺電要去做這件事情那現在你們當務之急就是好好跟九家民營店長弄清楚他到底要罰多少錢你們本來是要罰63.21對不對總共加起來那現在改罰60.7什麼時候可以確定到底要罰多少錢我想這個要看這個法院行政法院這個處理的情形跟進度就是最新的進度很明確他有聯合壟斷的行為"},{"start":494.821,"end":494.841,"text":"謝謝張啓楷"}]}}}}