{"id":149623,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149623","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf43000c5e06d25fd3b9eeaf4279b9ad9aebfdf8ba9b0039caa7a6f6c8e88a0e872c475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"09:40:30 - 09:54:54","影片長度":"00:14:24","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「因應中共兩會召開及年底美國總統大選，就國際及兩岸局勢發展之研析」，併請國防部副部長、海洋委員會海巡署署長列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-4"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":864,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:54:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:40:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":120,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（9時40分）謝謝主席。我們有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。徐委員好！"],["徐委員巧芯：局長好！我印象中，2024年的選舉有傳出不少的影片和錄音檔，當時大家都不斷地在問，到底是Deepfake（深偽），還是被駭客入侵了？我今天就想要請問，關於後續的調查結果，我們所掌握的有相關於國安的情報部分是怎麼樣的。","首先我們先看一下，第1位是鄭文燦副院長，去年10月的時候在司法及法制委員會，那時候國安局也在，就有委員提供相關所有的影片給調查局及國安局去瞭解是否為變造，但是到現在都還沒有一個結果，我想要請問一下國安局，我們有沒有去瞭解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機？涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳？"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員提到這個問題，這個案子因為引起社會非常高度的關注，所以在發生之後我們也有稍微瞭解一下相關的狀況，不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法警察機關，特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中，所以目前的調查進度我不便說明，但是對於委員在關注的，有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關訊息散播的管道及來源，這個我們有去瞭解……"],["徐委員巧芯：是，請問。"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分我們所瞭解到的是當時那個IP的位址是位在中國大陸的上海，由這個IP的位址來進行這種源頭的散布，這個部分我們倒是有掌握，所以相關資訊也有提供給檢調單位參考。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以您的意思是這個鄭文燦副院長的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查……"],["蔡局長明彥：對，是。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是我們從國安情報上來說，它的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做散播。那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳是否有涉及所謂的境外介選的問題？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這也是我們關切的重點，我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片出來，不管他影片的真偽，就他散布的時間點以及他特別鎖定希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講，我們不能夠排除有中國希望介選的動作在裡面。"],["徐委員巧芯：那您認為在國安方面的資訊，我們的情報調查，除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外，就是有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外，國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分，我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理？"],["蔡局長明彥：目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布，假如有的話，以我們相關的技術和系統，都可以在第一時間來掌握。"],["徐委員巧芯：好。第2個部分問到的是我們過去在外交及國防委員會的委員也是召委羅致政，比較嚴重的我覺得倒不是影片的問題，而是立委們都有質疑國安有沒有去調查蔡總統被錄音的問題，那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情，國安局就我們的國安情資所蒐集的瞭解情況是如何呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：也是跟委員報告一下，這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理，所以相關影片或錄音檔真偽的辨識，我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判比較正確。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前，國安局不啟動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他機密外流問題的調查嗎？還是我們有同步進行？"],["蔡局長明彥：假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關資訊的話，我們會提供給檢調這方面。"],["徐委員巧芯：他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：目前應該還沒有，目前還沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以不曉得目前偵辦的情況如何……"],["蔡局長明彥：對，而且我們也不適合去說明那個偵辦的事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，因為我們非常擔心如果羅致政委員的錄音檔為真，包含的是他做為外交及國防委員會的召委，他平常和包含我們很多三軍將士、包含國安局長（您），還有很多人，都有對話的過程，當中如果有錄音，如果是從他的手機外流出去的，恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音，局長，您同意嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的猜測，因為它已經在偵辦過程當中，我還是會建議由司法警察機關來……"],["徐委員巧芯：但是司法檢調的部分只會針對比方這個錄音是否為真去做辨識，可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公布出來的部分，我們先假定這個東西是真的，它外流出去了，但它怎麼外流的，是否是被駭客入侵的，如果是被駭客入侵的，他有沒有去掌握所有的，可能包含我的手機，包含我們馬委員的手機、沈委員的手機，有沒有我們外交及國防委員會委員的手機被駭客入侵的問題？這一點司法檢調不會調查，這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的，請問我們國安局這段時間以來對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：基本上，我們不會對國內政治人物做相關政治的偵防或資安的偵防，但是假如貴院的委員有這方面疑慮的話，國安局很願意提供相關的專業知識或提供必要的協助。"],["徐委員巧芯：最起碼應該針對羅致政委員的這個部分要去做更詳盡的調查，因為他過去是外交及國防委員會的召委，跟你、跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話，假設這個為真，而不是他個人主動外流，是被其他人所竊取，我們就會合理地推斷還有其他相當多國防、國安機密的內容是外流的，他們或許基於其他的理由沒有讓它在網路上面曝光，但是我們國安單位是不是要去掌握到底有多少的情資外流，我們到底有沒有做這些動作呢？從2024大選到現在。"],["蔡局長明彥：我想尊重委員的推論，有各種可能的狀況，正如委員剛剛所假設的，這是你自己的一個推論（speculation），各種可能性都有，包括可能是不是手機遭駭……"],["徐委員巧芯：但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性都要去提前地防範嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們今天不能如果今天流出了蔡總統的，調查蔡總統的；明天如果流出局長的，調查局長的；後天流出國防部長的，調查國防部長的，如果我們知道它外洩是來自於他錄音的手機，有這樣子的可能性，我們是否在情資上面的布線就應該要更完整地來做相關的調查？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全，我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員通訊的狀況……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是去偵查委員的手機，而是從各方面去瞭解是否有特定的駭客……"],["蔡局長明彥：瞭解。"],["徐委員巧芯：或是境外的勢力要用這樣子的勢力去竊取包含外交及國防委員會的機密，然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳，這和你去調查委員的手機是兩回事，手機的調查是檢調的事情，不關你的事，但有沒有其他的國安情資已經外洩？那絕對是你的職權，是吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這部分中共端有可能透過各種的滲透手法，包括資通訊各方面的侵害……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我們是想問，針對這個委員的部分現在調查得如何？從2024年的選舉過程到現在，有做過任何的處置嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：只要相關的案例發生之後……"],["徐委員巧芯：就以羅委員的部分，我們等一下還會問其他的人。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，就相關案例……"],["徐委員巧芯：這個部分沒有，對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，相關案例的部分就是由檢調來釐清相關的狀況。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以國安局並沒有去做……"],["蔡局長明彥：以國安局的狀況來講，我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種資通安全的侵害，這是我們最高度關注的。"],["徐委員巧芯：瞭解，再跟您確認一次，針對羅致政委員的部分，我們就單純送到檢調，國安局沒有做其他任何的處置，對吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們剛剛也有講到這部分我們在溯源。"],["徐委員巧芯：瞭解，沒問題，我們再問下一位，這個跟手機已經沒有關係了。這是當時資深的外交及國防委員趙天麟委員，因為他的緋聞對象是1位大陸籍女子，當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮，當事人當下聲稱他願意接受國安調查，請問這方面的調查結果如何？有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉？"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛委員提到的這些案子都已經送到司法機關進行偵辦。"],["徐委員巧芯：這個沒有啊！這跟司法沒有關係，這是他個人的私德問題。"],["蔡局長明彥：有，他個人也是把這案子移送到檢調機關。"],["徐委員巧芯：但問題是他說願意接受國安調查，司法的部分歸司法、國安的部分歸國安，所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面，我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，國安局是情報機關，我們並不是司法警察機關，所以我們的情報主要是聚焦在中共有沒有相關的滲透手法。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是司法檢察機關做的也不是所謂的國安調查，所以我們要問的是這名女子是否在國安調查中被認定是刻意接近外交及國防的委員來竊取機密？我是針對這個部分，跟司法檢調無關的。"],["蔡局長明彥：還是有關，因為司法檢調有針對這個問題來行文詢問……"],["徐委員巧芯：問你們了嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，有問了。"],["徐委員巧芯：那怎麼樣呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們在回答司法檢調的過程……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以在這個案子上你們有啟動相關的調查？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們有把相關的資訊提供給檢調單位。"],["徐委員巧芯：我可不可以換一句話問？在趙天麟案所調查的這名大陸籍女子，他是否涉及境外勢力影響臺灣選舉？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感，因為是在選舉期間，另外我剛才也跟委員提到了，這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關黨政人士，所以在時間上還有在特定對象上，就我們國安單位來講，我們不能排除有中共介選的動作……"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，所以你們在趙天麟案上不能排除這個事件有中國大陸介選的問題嘛？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，各種可能都有，我們會協助檢調釐清案情。"],["徐委員巧芯：另外，最近立法院上上下下接到很多恐嚇信，包含韓國瑜院長、江啟臣副院長、多名立法院的藍綠立委，請問目前的掌握、評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個案子事實上是刑事局的一個專案調查，因為不是單一個案，這幾年有非常多的案件出現，所掌握的狀況……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們針對近期發生的這件事情就好了。"],["蔡局長明彥：目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示是境外的陸籍人士在進行這種郵件恐嚇。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是目前對臺灣的政壇沒有所謂的國安影響？單純就是大陸比較偏網路的這方面，是嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇對象主要是桃園國際機場占最大量，另外是總統府、警政署的署長信箱，接下來就是各委員相關的民意信箱。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，瞭解。因為時間的關係，我還有一個小問題想請教你，最近金廈海域的事件，大家都非常關心國安層次對該事件的掌握，我想問第一時間在金廈海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，第一時間我記得是在2月14號中午大概一點多的時間，我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情資，第一時間我所知道的是海巡弟兄很辛苦地動員各式船艦跟人員進行搜救，因為4名船員中有1名一直沒找到，後來發現船長被壓在船的底下，這部分幾乎整個下午都在做搜救作業，所以我們國安單位都有掌握相關的資訊給……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們要問的是掌握之後有沒有讓蔡總統清楚明白整個過程？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，都有進行必要的通報。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問當時向蔡總統報告的時候，是不是使用海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告？有沒有這件事情？主席，不好意思！因為海巡也在，是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下？"],["主席：請副署長。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們海巡單位的弟兄第一時間有很清楚地把整個過程都寫出來，請問我們是否有將該份報告上呈給總統參考？"],["張副署長忠龍：跟委員報告，我們呈上去的這個報告，我不曉得到底有沒有整個給蔡總統，但是我們有往上……"],["徐委員巧芯：是否有這份報告？包含管制長、海域執行官等人、巡防組勤務指揮科，他們是否有做相關的報告？在第一時間提供出來。"],["張副署長忠龍：我們案情的摘要部分會往上送。"],["徐委員巧芯：有往上送？"],["張副署長忠龍：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：請問一下國安局長這邊所掌握的、第一時間海巡提供的，是不是就把他們的報告呈交給蔡總統？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們收到相關的意外事件都會把最新的資訊通報到各單位，都會有。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為兩位都在，海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的報告，再給大家看一下，報告之後也拿這個報告呈交給蔡總統，讓他做國情相關的評估，是嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：我說明一下，就國安局來講，我們收到的資訊來自各部會，可能不只海巡，還有其他單位，所以是綜合的分析。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有，我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統？海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考？"],["張副署長忠龍：報告委員，我們往上呈的報告是摘要報告，所以……"],["徐委員巧芯：摘要報告？所以這份可能沒有看？你們沒有往上送這一份完整的，是嗎？上面有誰收過呢？署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告，你們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統，是更簡要的報告，是嗎？"],["張副署長忠龍：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：OK，所以總統不知道你們在第一時間寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆，瞭解了！因為時間的關係，我們就先這樣。"],["蔡局長明彥：相關的情勢我們都彙整給政府決策參考。"],["徐委員巧芯：是，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況，但我們都有整體的分析，謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-4","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","徐巧芯","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","李坤城","陳冠廷","邱志偉","賴士葆","張啓楷","吳宗憲","陳永康","林憶君","王定宇","黃仁","王鴻薇","洪申翰"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131001_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「因應中共兩會召開及年底美國總統大選，就國際及兩岸局勢發\n展之研析」，併請國防部副部長、海洋委員會海巡署署長列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131001_00012"}},"transcript":{"id":"149623","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149623","tool":"pyannote","id":"149623-pyannote"},"job_id":"dZXt6pdzn6H56P9M","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 36.713, \"end\": 36.893, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 36.893, \"end\": 37.073, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 37.073, \"end\": 37.293, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 37.293, \"end\": 37.514, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 37.514, \"end\": 37.714, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 37.714, \"end\": 37.854, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 37.854, \"end\": 38.414, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 38.414, \"end\": 38.514, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 38.514, \"end\": 38.654, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 38.654, \"end\": 38.935, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 38.935, \"end\": 40.235, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", 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\"謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 72.903, \"end\": 73.103, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 73.103, \"end\": 73.203, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 73.203, \"end\": 75.624, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 75.624, \"end\": 75.884, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 75.884, \"end\": 76.104, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 76.104, \"end\": 76.384, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 76.384, \"end\": 76.564, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 76.564, \"end\": 76.744, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 76.744, \"end\": 77.045, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, 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\"那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 152.319, \"end\": 152.479, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 152.479, \"end\": 152.699, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 152.699, \"end\": 152.919, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 152.919, \"end\": 153.159, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 153.159, \"end\": 153.64, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 153.64, \"end\": 153.88, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 153.88, \"end\": 154.06, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 154.06, \"end\": 154.2, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 154.2, \"end\": 154.66, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 154.66, \"end\": 154.94, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 715.666, \"end\": 715.867, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 715.867, \"end\": 716.447, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 716.447, \"end\": 716.827, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 716.827, \"end\": 717.128, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 717.128, \"end\": 717.408, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"弟\", \"start\": 717.408, \"end\": 717.588, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"兄\", \"start\": 717.588, \"end\": 717.888, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 717.888, \"end\": 717.968, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 717.968, \"end\": 717.988, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 717.988, \"end\": 718.008, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 718.008, \"end\": 718.048, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 718.048, \"end\": 718.089, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 751.078, \"end\": 751.559, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 751.559, \"end\": 751.799, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 751.799, \"end\": 752.099, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 752.099, \"end\": 752.279, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 752.279, \"end\": 752.299, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 755.135, \"end\": 778.238, \"text\": \"公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 755.135, \"end\": 755.296, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 755.296, \"end\": 755.656, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 755.656, \"end\": 756.397, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 756.397, \"end\": 756.897, 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00:00:56,505\n首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造\n\n4\n00:00:57,546 --> 00:01:11,682\n那但是到現在都還沒有一個結果那我想要請問一下國安局我們有沒有去了解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳\n\n5\n00:01:12,903 --> 00:01:38,372\n謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解\n\n6\n00:01:39,132 --> 00:02:01,160\n這部分我們所了解到的是當時的一個IP的位置是位在中國大陸的上海由這個IP的位置來進行這種源頭的散佈這部分我們倒是有掌握所以相關資訊一定要提供給檢調單位參考您的意思是說這個鄭文燦副院長他的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查\n\n7\n00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:31,799\n但是我們從國安情報上來說呢他的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做一個散播那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳他是否有涉及所謂的境外借選的問題對這也是我們關切的重點我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片的出來那不管他的影片的真偽就他散布的一個時間點那以及他特別鎖定的希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講我們不能夠排除有中國希望借選的一個動作在裡面\n\n8\n00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:50,566\n那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理\n\n9\n00:02:52,226 --> 00:03:08,185\n目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布那假如有的話以我們的相關的技術跟系統都可以在第一時間來掌握好那第二個部分問到的是我們過去在國防外交的委員也是昭緯羅智政\n\n10\n00:03:08,706 --> 00:03:27,488\n那比較嚴重的呢我覺得不是影片的問題而是立委們都有質疑就國安有沒有去調查這個蔡總統被錄音的問題那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情國安局就我們的國安情資所收集的了解情況是如何的\n\n11\n00:03:27,948 --> 00:03:51,957\n對,是跟委員報告一下這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理所以相關的一個影片或錄音檔他的真偽的辨識我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前國安局不起動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他的機密外流的問題的調查嗎還是我們有同步進行\n\n12\n00:03:52,777 --> 00:04:12,918\n對,假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關的資訊的話,我們會提供給...他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎?目前應該還沒有,目前應該還沒有所以不曉得現在目前偵辦的情況如何?對,而且我們也不想去說明那個偵辦的事情因為我們非常的擔心,就是說如果這個羅志正委員他的錄音檔為真\n\n13\n00:04:14,099 --> 00:04:32,374\n那包含是平常他作為國防外交委員會的州委他平常跟包含我們很多三軍統帥包含國安局長您還有很多人都有對話的過程當中如果有錄音如果是從他的手機外流出去的那恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音局長您同意嗎\n\n14\n00:04:35,424 --> 00:05:02,598\n對我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的一個猜測那因為他已經在偵辦過程當中我還是會建議由司法檢查機關但是司法檢調的部分他只會針對說這個比方說這個錄音是否為真他去做一個辨識可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公佈出來的部分我們假定我們假先假定這個東西是真的那他外流出去了但他怎麼外流的他是否是被駭客入侵的\n\n15\n00:05:02,978 --> 00:05:25,114\n如果是被駭客入侵的．他有沒有去掌握所有的．包含我們現在可能包含我的手機．包含我們馬委員的手機．沈委員的手機．有沒有我們國防外交委員會的手機．被駭客入侵的問題．這一點司法檢調不會調查．這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的．請問我們國安局這一段時間起來．對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣\n\n16\n00:05:25,914 --> 00:05:42,230\n對,基本上我們不會對國內的政治人物做相關的政治的偵訪或資安的偵訪啦但是假如貴院的委員有這方面的疑慮的話那國安局很願意提供相關的專業的知識或提供必要的協助最起碼應該針對羅志正委員的這個部分要去做這更詳細的調查\n\n17\n00:05:43,311 --> 00:06:00,297\n因為他過去是國防外交的召委跟你跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話假設這個為真而不是他個人主動外流是被其他人所竊取那我們就會合理的推斷還有其他相當多跟國防、國安機密的內容是外流的\n\n18\n00:06:00,717 --> 00:06:02,458\n但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性我們都要去提前的防範嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:30,530 --> 00:06:51,763\n我們今天不能說如果今天流出了蔡總統的調查蔡總統的明天如果流出局長的調查局長的後天流出國防部長的調查國防部長的如果我們知道他外線是來自他錄音的手機有這樣子的可能性我們是否在情資上面的佈線就應該要更完整的來做相關的調查\n\n20\n00:06:52,523 --> 00:07:19,562\n對,我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全啦我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員的通訊的狀況不是去偵查委員的手機而是從各方面去了解是否有特定的駭客或是境外的勢力有要用他的這樣子的一個勢力去竊取包含是國防外交委員會的機密然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳\n\n21\n00:07:20,422 --> 00:07:44,541\n這跟委員的手機你去調查他的手機是兩回事手機的調查那是檢調的事情那不關你的事但是有沒有其他國安的情資已經外洩那絕對是您的職權是吧對在這部分對於中共端的他有可能透過各種的一個滲透的手法包括資通訊各方所以我們是想要問針對這個委員的部分我們現在調查的如何我們從2024年的選舉過程到現在有做過任何的處置嗎\n\n22\n00:07:48,864 --> 00:08:13,475\n只要相關的一個案例發生之後就以這個羅委員的部分我們等一下還會問其他的人對就相關案例的部分就是有檢調來釐清相關方法所以國安局都沒有去做對就國安局的狀況來講我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種的知通安全的侵害再跟你確認一次就是針對羅智政委員的這個部分我們就單純的送到檢調國安局沒有做其他任何的處置對吧\n\n23\n00:08:14,455 --> 00:08:40,906\n對,我們剛剛也有在講,我們在溯源沒問題沒問題,我們再問下一位那這個跟手機已經沒有關係了這是當時我們資深的國防外交委員趙天麟委員因為他的緋聞對象是一位大陸局的女子當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮當事人當下聲稱說他願意接受國安調查那請問這方面我們的調查結果如何有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉\n\n24\n00:08:42,006 --> 00:09:04,593\n這些案子剛剛講的委員提到的案子都已經送到了司法這個沒有啊這個跟司法沒有關係這是他個人的私德的問題他個人也是把這個案子有移送到檢調局但是問題是他說他願意接受的是國安調查他當時不是司法的部分歸司法國安的部分歸國安所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動\n\n25\n00:09:06,393 --> 00:09:25,547\n國安局是情報機關,我們並不是司法檢查機關所以我們要問的是這名女子她是否在我們的國安調查當中認定是刻意的來接近國防外交的委員來竊取機密是針對這個部分,跟司法檢調無關的\n\n26\n00:09:26,608 --> 00:09:27,328\n是否涉及境外勢力影響台灣選舉\n\n27\n00:09:52,376 --> 00:10:16,524\n這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感因為確實是在選舉的期間那另外我剛才跟委員提到了這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關的黨政人士所以在時間上還有在特定對象上就我們國安單位來講我們不能夠排除有中共借選的問題所以你們在趙天麟案上面不能夠排除他們這個事件是有中國大陸這個借選的問題嗎對各種可能都有我們會協助檢調來釐清案情\n\n28\n00:10:20,145 --> 00:10:42,560\n最近立法院上上下下接到很多的恐嚇信包含是韓國瑜院長包含是江啟臣副院長我們立法院的多名藍綠的立委請問目前掌握評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮對這個案子事實上他針對刑事局的一個專案調查因為不是單一個案這幾年有非常多的這個案件出現\n\n29\n00:10:43,240 --> 00:11:12,040\n我們就針對近期發生的這件事情就好了目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示的是境外的入籍人士在進行這一種國安授課但是目前是沒有對臺灣的政壇有所謂的國安影響的單純就是比如說大陸的他是比較偏網路上面的這方面對,他有跟我們說明一下他現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇的對象大概有包括到主要的是桃園國際機場占最大量另外是總統府\n\n30\n00:11:12,941 --> 00:11:34,560\n另外是警政署的署長信箱那接下來就是各個委員的相關的民意信箱因為時間的關係我還有一個小問題想要來請教你就是說最近金下海域的事件大家都非常關心我們大概國安層次對該事件的掌握我想要問在第一時間金下海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統\n\n31\n00:11:35,857 --> 00:11:53,685\n有在第一時間我記得是發生在2月14號的下午中午大概一點多的時間那我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情質第一時間我所知道的是海巡的弟兄很辛苦的動員各式的船艦跟人員來進行搜救因為原來四名船員當中有一名一直沒有找到\n\n32\n00:11:54,065 --> 00:11:58,129\n那請問我們在當時向蔡總統報告的時候是不是使用了我們海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告\n\n33\n00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:32,299\n我們海巡也在是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下就是說我們海巡單位第一時間其實弟兄是有很清楚的把整個資訊過程都寫出來的請問我們是否是將該份報告上呈給總統參考\n\n34\n00:12:35,135 --> 00:12:58,238\n公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送\n\n35\n00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:18,815\n所以這份我們可能就是國安局長這邊請問一下我們所掌握的第一時間海巡提供的是不是就是把他們的報告送成交給蔡總統我們收到相關的意外事件都會把相關的最新的資訊報告海巡所以是不是我們兩位都在嗎就是海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的\n\n36\n00:13:21,317 --> 00:13:40,965\n再給大家看一下很詳細的報告報告之後就拿這個報告然後我們也呈交給蔡總統讓他做國情相關的評估我們說到資訊來自各部會可能不只海巡還有其他單位沒有我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統就海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考\n\n37\n00:13:43,099 --> 00:13:53,315\n我們是摘要報告往上送摘要報告所以這份可能沒有看你們沒有往上送這一份完整的是嗎\n\n38\n00:13:54,372 --> 00:14:19,668\n上面有誰收過呢?署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告我們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統是更簡要的報告是嗎?是所以總統不知道最後一分鐘總統不知道你們在第一時間裡面寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆了解了那因為時間的關係相關情節我們都會整給政府決定單考\n\n39\n00:14:20,770 --> 00:14:23,729\n海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況但我們都有整體的分析\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1431\t3074\t謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長\n13035\t35833\t局長好我印象中2024年的選舉有傳出不少的影片跟錄音檔那當時大家都不斷的在問說到底是DeFake身為還是他被駭客入侵了那我今天就想要請問關於後續的調查結果我們所掌握的有相關於國安的情報部分是怎麼樣的\n36713\t56505\t首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造\n57546\t71682\t那但是到現在都還沒有一個結果那我想要請問一下國安局我們有沒有去了解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳\n72903\t98372\t謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解\n99132\t121160\t這部分我們所了解到的是當時的一個IP的位置是位在中國大陸的上海由這個IP的位置來進行這種源頭的散佈這部分我們倒是有掌握所以相關資訊一定要提供給檢調單位參考您的意思是說這個鄭文燦副院長他的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查\n122520\t151799\t但是我們從國安情報上來說呢他的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做一個散播那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳他是否有涉及所謂的境外借選的問題對這也是我們關切的重點我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片的出來那不管他的影片的真偽就他散布的一個時間點那以及他特別鎖定的希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講我們不能夠排除有中國希望借選的一個動作在裡面\n152319\t170566\t那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理\n172226\t188185\t目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布那假如有的話以我們的相關的技術跟系統都可以在第一時間來掌握好那第二個部分問到的是我們過去在國防外交的委員也是昭緯羅智政\n188706\t207488\t那比較嚴重的呢我覺得不是影片的問題而是立委們都有質疑就國安有沒有去調查這個蔡總統被錄音的問題那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情國安局就我們的國安情資所收集的了解情況是如何的\n207948\t231957\t對,是跟委員報告一下這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理所以相關的一個影片或錄音檔他的真偽的辨識我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前國安局不起動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他的機密外流的問題的調查嗎還是我們有同步進行\n232777\t252918\t對,假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關的資訊的話,我們會提供給...他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎?目前應該還沒有,目前應該還沒有所以不曉得現在目前偵辦的情況如何?對,而且我們也不想去說明那個偵辦的事情因為我們非常的擔心,就是說如果這個羅志正委員他的錄音檔為真\n254099\t272374\t那包含是平常他作為國防外交委員會的州委他平常跟包含我們很多三軍統帥包含國安局長您還有很多人都有對話的過程當中如果有錄音如果是從他的手機外流出去的那恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音局長您同意嗎\n275424\t302598\t對我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的一個猜測那因為他已經在偵辦過程當中我還是會建議由司法檢查機關但是司法檢調的部分他只會針對說這個比方說這個錄音是否為真他去做一個辨識可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公佈出來的部分我們假定我們假先假定這個東西是真的那他外流出去了但他怎麼外流的他是否是被駭客入侵的\n302978\t325114\t如果是被駭客入侵的．他有沒有去掌握所有的．包含我們現在可能包含我的手機．包含我們馬委員的手機．沈委員的手機．有沒有我們國防外交委員會的手機．被駭客入侵的問題．這一點司法檢調不會調查．這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的．請問我們國安局這一段時間起來．對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣\n325914\t342230\t對,基本上我們不會對國內的政治人物做相關的政治的偵訪或資安的偵訪啦但是假如貴院的委員有這方面的疑慮的話那國安局很願意提供相關的專業的知識或提供必要的協助最起碼應該針對羅志正委員的這個部分要去做這更詳細的調查\n343311\t360297\t因為他過去是國防外交的召委跟你跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話假設這個為真而不是他個人主動外流是被其他人所竊取那我們就會合理的推斷還有其他相當多跟國防、國安機密的內容是外流的\n360717\t362458\t但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性我們都要去提前的防範嗎?\n390530\t411763\t我們今天不能說如果今天流出了蔡總統的調查蔡總統的明天如果流出局長的調查局長的後天流出國防部長的調查國防部長的如果我們知道他外線是來自他錄音的手機有這樣子的可能性我們是否在情資上面的佈線就應該要更完整的來做相關的調查\n412523\t439562\t對,我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全啦我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員的通訊的狀況不是去偵查委員的手機而是從各方面去了解是否有特定的駭客或是境外的勢力有要用他的這樣子的一個勢力去竊取包含是國防外交委員會的機密然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳\n440422\t464541\t這跟委員的手機你去調查他的手機是兩回事手機的調查那是檢調的事情那不關你的事但是有沒有其他國安的情資已經外洩那絕對是您的職權是吧對在這部分對於中共端的他有可能透過各種的一個滲透的手法包括資通訊各方所以我們是想要問針對這個委員的部分我們現在調查的如何我們從2024年的選舉過程到現在有做過任何的處置嗎\n468864\t493475\t只要相關的一個案例發生之後就以這個羅委員的部分我們等一下還會問其他的人對就相關案例的部分就是有檢調來釐清相關方法所以國安局都沒有去做對就國安局的狀況來講我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種的知通安全的侵害再跟你確認一次就是針對羅智政委員的這個部分我們就單純的送到檢調國安局沒有做其他任何的處置對吧\n494455\t520906\t對,我們剛剛也有在講,我們在溯源沒問題沒問題,我們再問下一位那這個跟手機已經沒有關係了這是當時我們資深的國防外交委員趙天麟委員因為他的緋聞對象是一位大陸局的女子當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮當事人當下聲稱說他願意接受國安調查那請問這方面我們的調查結果如何有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉\n522006\t544593\t這些案子剛剛講的委員提到的案子都已經送到了司法這個沒有啊 這個跟司法沒有關係這是他個人的私德的問題他個人也是把這個案子有移送到檢調局但是問題是他說他願意接受的是國安調查他當時不是司法的部分歸司法國安的部分歸國安所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動\n546393\t565547\t國安局是情報機關,我們並不是司法檢查機關所以我們要問的是這名女子她是否在我們的國安調查當中認定是刻意的來接近國防外交的委員來竊取機密是針對這個部分,跟司法檢調無關的\n566608\t567328\t是否涉及境外勢力影響台灣選舉\n592376\t616524\t這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感因為確實是在選舉的期間那另外我剛才跟委員提到了這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關的黨政人士所以在時間上還有在特定對象上就我們國安單位來講我們不能夠排除有中共借選的問題所以你們在趙天麟案上面不能夠排除他們這個事件是有中國大陸這個借選的問題嗎對各種可能都有我們會協助檢調來釐清案情\n620145\t642560\t最近立法院上上下下接到很多的恐嚇信包含是韓國瑜院長包含是江啟臣副院長我們立法院的多名藍綠的立委請問目前掌握評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮對這個案子事實上他針對刑事局的一個專案調查因為不是單一個案這幾年有非常多的這個案件出現\n643240\t672040\t我們就針對近期發生的這件事情就好了目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示的是境外的入籍人士在進行這一種國安授課但是目前是沒有對臺灣的政壇有所謂的國安影響的單純就是比如說大陸的他是比較偏網路上面的這方面對,他有跟我們說明一下他現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇的對象大概有包括到主要的是桃園國際機場占最大量另外是總統府\n672941\t694560\t另外是警政署的署長信箱那接下來就是各個委員的相關的民意信箱因為時間的關係我還有一個小問題想要來請教你就是說最近金下海域的事件大家都非常關心我們大概國安層次對該事件的掌握我想要問在第一時間金下海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統\n695857\t713685\t有在第一時間我記得是發生在2月14號的下午中午大概一點多的時間那我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情質第一時間我所知道的是海巡的弟兄很辛苦的動員各式的船艦跟人員來進行搜救因為原來四名船員當中有一名一直沒有找到\n714065\t718129\t那請問我們在當時向蔡總統報告的時候是不是使用了我們海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告\n737670\t752299\t我們海巡也在是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下就是說我們海巡單位第一時間其實弟兄是有很清楚的把整個資訊過程都寫出來的請問我們是否是將該份報告上呈給總統參考\n755135\t778238\t公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送\n779679\t798815\t所以這份我們可能就是國安局長這邊請問一下我們所掌握的第一時間海巡提供的是不是就是把他們的報告送成交給蔡總統我們收到相關的意外事件都會把相關的最新的資訊報告海巡所以是不是我們兩位都在嗎就是海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的\n801317\t820965\t再給大家看一下很詳細的報告報告之後就拿這個報告然後我們也呈交給蔡總統讓他做國情相關的評估我們說到資訊來自各部會可能不只海巡還有其他單位沒有我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統就海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考\n823099\t833315\t我們是摘要報告往上送摘要報告所以這份可能沒有看你們沒有往上送這一份完整的是嗎\n834372\t859668\t上面有誰收過呢?署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告我們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統是更簡要的報告是嗎?是所以總統不知道最後一分鐘總統不知道你們在第一時間裡面寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆了解了那因為時間的關係相關情節我們都會整給政府決定單考\n860770\t863729\t海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況但我們都有整體的分析\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長\n局長好我印象中2024年的選舉有傳出不少的影片跟錄音檔那當時大家都不斷的在問說到底是DeFake身為還是他被駭客入侵了那我今天就想要請問關於後續的調查結果我們所掌握的有相關於國安的情報部分是怎麼樣的\n首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造\n那但是到現在都還沒有一個結果那我想要請問一下國安局我們有沒有去了解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳\n謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解\n這部分我們所了解到的是當時的一個IP的位置是位在中國大陸的上海由這個IP的位置來進行這種源頭的散佈這部分我們倒是有掌握所以相關資訊一定要提供給檢調單位參考您的意思是說這個鄭文燦副院長他的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查\n但是我們從國安情報上來說呢他的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做一個散播那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳他是否有涉及所謂的境外借選的問題對這也是我們關切的重點我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片的出來那不管他的影片的真偽就他散布的一個時間點那以及他特別鎖定的希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講我們不能夠排除有中國希望借選的一個動作在裡面\n那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理\n目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布那假如有的話以我們的相關的技術跟系統都可以在第一時間來掌握好那第二個部分問到的是我們過去在國防外交的委員也是昭緯羅智政\n那比較嚴重的呢我覺得不是影片的問題而是立委們都有質疑就國安有沒有去調查這個蔡總統被錄音的問題那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情國安局就我們的國安情資所收集的了解情況是如何的\n對,是跟委員報告一下這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理所以相關的一個影片或錄音檔他的真偽的辨識我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前國安局不起動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他的機密外流的問題的調查嗎還是我們有同步進行\n對,假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關的資訊的話,我們會提供給...他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎?目前應該還沒有,目前應該還沒有所以不曉得現在目前偵辦的情況如何?對,而且我們也不想去說明那個偵辦的事情因為我們非常的擔心,就是說如果這個羅志正委員他的錄音檔為真\n那包含是平常他作為國防外交委員會的州委他平常跟包含我們很多三軍統帥包含國安局長您還有很多人都有對話的過程當中如果有錄音如果是從他的手機外流出去的那恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音局長您同意嗎\n對我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的一個猜測那因為他已經在偵辦過程當中我還是會建議由司法檢查機關但是司法檢調的部分他只會針對說這個比方說這個錄音是否為真他去做一個辨識可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公佈出來的部分我們假定我們假先假定這個東西是真的那他外流出去了但他怎麼外流的他是否是被駭客入侵的\n如果是被駭客入侵的．他有沒有去掌握所有的．包含我們現在可能包含我的手機．包含我們馬委員的手機．沈委員的手機．有沒有我們國防外交委員會的手機．被駭客入侵的問題．這一點司法檢調不會調查．這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的．請問我們國安局這一段時間起來．對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣\n對,基本上我們不會對國內的政治人物做相關的政治的偵訪或資安的偵訪啦但是假如貴院的委員有這方面的疑慮的話那國安局很願意提供相關的專業的知識或提供必要的協助最起碼應該針對羅志正委員的這個部分要去做這更詳細的調查\n因為他過去是國防外交的召委跟你跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話假設這個為真而不是他個人主動外流是被其他人所竊取那我們就會合理的推斷還有其他相當多跟國防、國安機密的內容是外流的\n但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性我們都要去提前的防範嗎?\n我們今天不能說如果今天流出了蔡總統的調查蔡總統的明天如果流出局長的調查局長的後天流出國防部長的調查國防部長的如果我們知道他外線是來自他錄音的手機有這樣子的可能性我們是否在情資上面的佈線就應該要更完整的來做相關的調查\n對,我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全啦我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員的通訊的狀況不是去偵查委員的手機而是從各方面去了解是否有特定的駭客或是境外的勢力有要用他的這樣子的一個勢力去竊取包含是國防外交委員會的機密然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳\n這跟委員的手機你去調查他的手機是兩回事手機的調查那是檢調的事情那不關你的事但是有沒有其他國安的情資已經外洩那絕對是您的職權是吧對在這部分對於中共端的他有可能透過各種的一個滲透的手法包括資通訊各方所以我們是想要問針對這個委員的部分我們現在調查的如何我們從2024年的選舉過程到現在有做過任何的處置嗎\n只要相關的一個案例發生之後就以這個羅委員的部分我們等一下還會問其他的人對就相關案例的部分就是有檢調來釐清相關方法所以國安局都沒有去做對就國安局的狀況來講我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種的知通安全的侵害再跟你確認一次就是針對羅智政委員的這個部分我們就單純的送到檢調國安局沒有做其他任何的處置對吧\n對,我們剛剛也有在講,我們在溯源沒問題沒問題,我們再問下一位那這個跟手機已經沒有關係了這是當時我們資深的國防外交委員趙天麟委員因為他的緋聞對象是一位大陸局的女子當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮當事人當下聲稱說他願意接受國安調查那請問這方面我們的調查結果如何有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉\n這些案子剛剛講的委員提到的案子都已經送到了司法這個沒有啊 這個跟司法沒有關係這是他個人的私德的問題他個人也是把這個案子有移送到檢調局但是問題是他說他願意接受的是國安調查他當時不是司法的部分歸司法國安的部分歸國安所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動\n國安局是情報機關,我們並不是司法檢查機關所以我們要問的是這名女子她是否在我們的國安調查當中認定是刻意的來接近國防外交的委員來竊取機密是針對這個部分,跟司法檢調無關的\n是否涉及境外勢力影響台灣選舉\n這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感因為確實是在選舉的期間那另外我剛才跟委員提到了這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關的黨政人士所以在時間上還有在特定對象上就我們國安單位來講我們不能夠排除有中共借選的問題所以你們在趙天麟案上面不能夠排除他們這個事件是有中國大陸這個借選的問題嗎對各種可能都有我們會協助檢調來釐清案情\n最近立法院上上下下接到很多的恐嚇信包含是韓國瑜院長包含是江啟臣副院長我們立法院的多名藍綠的立委請問目前掌握評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮對這個案子事實上他針對刑事局的一個專案調查因為不是單一個案這幾年有非常多的這個案件出現\n我們就針對近期發生的這件事情就好了目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示的是境外的入籍人士在進行這一種國安授課但是目前是沒有對臺灣的政壇有所謂的國安影響的單純就是比如說大陸的他是比較偏網路上面的這方面對,他有跟我們說明一下他現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇的對象大概有包括到主要的是桃園國際機場占最大量另外是總統府\n另外是警政署的署長信箱那接下來就是各個委員的相關的民意信箱因為時間的關係我還有一個小問題想要來請教你就是說最近金下海域的事件大家都非常關心我們大概國安層次對該事件的掌握我想要問在第一時間金下海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統\n有在第一時間我記得是發生在2月14號的下午中午大概一點多的時間那我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情質第一時間我所知道的是海巡的弟兄很辛苦的動員各式的船艦跟人員來進行搜救因為原來四名船員當中有一名一直沒有找到\n那請問我們在當時向蔡總統報告的時候是不是使用了我們海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告\n我們海巡也在是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下就是說我們海巡單位第一時間其實弟兄是有很清楚的把整個資訊過程都寫出來的請問我們是否是將該份報告上呈給總統參考\n公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送\n所以這份我們可能就是國安局長這邊請問一下我們所掌握的第一時間海巡提供的是不是就是把他們的報告送成交給蔡總統我們收到相關的意外事件都會把相關的最新的資訊報告海巡所以是不是我們兩位都在嗎就是海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的\n再給大家看一下很詳細的報告報告之後就拿這個報告然後我們也呈交給蔡總統讓他做國情相關的評估我們說到資訊來自各部會可能不只海巡還有其他單位沒有我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統就海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考\n我們是摘要報告往上送摘要報告所以這份可能沒有看你們沒有往上送這一份完整的是嗎\n上面有誰收過呢?署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告我們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統是更簡要的報告是嗎?是所以總統不知道最後一分鐘總統不知道你們在第一時間裡面寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆了解了那因為時間的關係相關情節我們都會整給政府決定單考\n海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況但我們都有整體的分析\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.431 --> 00:03.074\n謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長\n\n00:13.035 --> 00:35.833\n局長好我印象中2024年的選舉有傳出不少的影片跟錄音檔那當時大家都不斷的在問說到底是DeFake身為還是他被駭客入侵了那我今天就想要請問關於後續的調查結果我們所掌握的有相關於國安的情報部分是怎麼樣的\n\n00:36.713 --> 00:56.505\n首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造\n\n00:57.546 --> 01:11.682\n那但是到現在都還沒有一個結果那我想要請問一下國安局我們有沒有去了解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳\n\n01:12.903 --> 01:38.372\n謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解\n\n01:39.132 --> 02:01.160\n這部分我們所了解到的是當時的一個IP的位置是位在中國大陸的上海由這個IP的位置來進行這種源頭的散佈這部分我們倒是有掌握所以相關資訊一定要提供給檢調單位參考您的意思是說這個鄭文燦副院長他的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查\n\n02:02.520 --> 02:31.799\n但是我們從國安情報上來說呢他的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做一個散播那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳他是否有涉及所謂的境外借選的問題對這也是我們關切的重點我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片的出來那不管他的影片的真偽就他散布的一個時間點那以及他特別鎖定的希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講我們不能夠排除有中國希望借選的一個動作在裡面\n\n02:32.319 --> 02:50.566\n那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理\n\n02:52.226 --> 03:08.185\n目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布那假如有的話以我們的相關的技術跟系統都可以在第一時間來掌握好那第二個部分問到的是我們過去在國防外交的委員也是昭緯羅智政\n\n03:08.706 --> 03:27.488\n那比較嚴重的呢我覺得不是影片的問題而是立委們都有質疑就國安有沒有去調查這個蔡總統被錄音的問題那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情國安局就我們的國安情資所收集的了解情況是如何的\n\n03:27.948 --> 03:51.957\n對,是跟委員報告一下這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理所以相關的一個影片或錄音檔他的真偽的辨識我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前國安局不起動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他的機密外流的問題的調查嗎還是我們有同步進行\n\n03:52.777 --> 04:12.918\n對,假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關的資訊的話,我們會提供給...他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎?目前應該還沒有,目前應該還沒有所以不曉得現在目前偵辦的情況如何?對,而且我們也不想去說明那個偵辦的事情因為我們非常的擔心,就是說如果這個羅志正委員他的錄音檔為真\n\n04:14.099 --> 04:32.374\n那包含是平常他作為國防外交委員會的州委他平常跟包含我們很多三軍統帥包含國安局長您還有很多人都有對話的過程當中如果有錄音如果是從他的手機外流出去的那恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音局長您同意嗎\n\n04:35.424 --> 05:02.598\n對我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的一個猜測那因為他已經在偵辦過程當中我還是會建議由司法檢查機關但是司法檢調的部分他只會針對說這個比方說這個錄音是否為真他去做一個辨識可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公佈出來的部分我們假定我們假先假定這個東西是真的那他外流出去了但他怎麼外流的他是否是被駭客入侵的\n\n05:02.978 --> 05:25.114\n如果是被駭客入侵的．他有沒有去掌握所有的．包含我們現在可能包含我的手機．包含我們馬委員的手機．沈委員的手機．有沒有我們國防外交委員會的手機．被駭客入侵的問題．這一點司法檢調不會調查．這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的．請問我們國安局這一段時間起來．對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣\n\n05:25.914 --> 05:42.230\n對,基本上我們不會對國內的政治人物做相關的政治的偵訪或資安的偵訪啦但是假如貴院的委員有這方面的疑慮的話那國安局很願意提供相關的專業的知識或提供必要的協助最起碼應該針對羅志正委員的這個部分要去做這更詳細的調查\n\n05:43.311 --> 06:00.297\n因為他過去是國防外交的召委跟你跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話假設這個為真而不是他個人主動外流是被其他人所竊取那我們就會合理的推斷還有其他相當多跟國防、國安機密的內容是外流的\n\n06:00.717 --> 06:02.458\n但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性我們都要去提前的防範嗎?\n\n06:30.530 --> 06:51.763\n我們今天不能說如果今天流出了蔡總統的調查蔡總統的明天如果流出局長的調查局長的後天流出國防部長的調查國防部長的如果我們知道他外線是來自他錄音的手機有這樣子的可能性我們是否在情資上面的佈線就應該要更完整的來做相關的調查\n\n06:52.523 --> 07:19.562\n對,我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全啦我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員的通訊的狀況不是去偵查委員的手機而是從各方面去了解是否有特定的駭客或是境外的勢力有要用他的這樣子的一個勢力去竊取包含是國防外交委員會的機密然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳\n\n07:20.422 --> 07:44.541\n這跟委員的手機你去調查他的手機是兩回事手機的調查那是檢調的事情那不關你的事但是有沒有其他國安的情資已經外洩那絕對是您的職權是吧對在這部分對於中共端的他有可能透過各種的一個滲透的手法包括資通訊各方所以我們是想要問針對這個委員的部分我們現在調查的如何我們從2024年的選舉過程到現在有做過任何的處置嗎\n\n07:48.864 --> 08:13.475\n只要相關的一個案例發生之後就以這個羅委員的部分我們等一下還會問其他的人對就相關案例的部分就是有檢調來釐清相關方法所以國安局都沒有去做對就國安局的狀況來講我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種的知通安全的侵害再跟你確認一次就是針對羅智政委員的這個部分我們就單純的送到檢調國安局沒有做其他任何的處置對吧\n\n08:14.455 --> 08:40.906\n對,我們剛剛也有在講,我們在溯源沒問題沒問題,我們再問下一位那這個跟手機已經沒有關係了這是當時我們資深的國防外交委員趙天麟委員因為他的緋聞對象是一位大陸局的女子當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮當事人當下聲稱說他願意接受國安調查那請問這方面我們的調查結果如何有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉\n\n08:42.006 --> 09:04.593\n這些案子剛剛講的委員提到的案子都已經送到了司法這個沒有啊這個跟司法沒有關係這是他個人的私德的問題他個人也是把這個案子有移送到檢調局但是問題是他說他願意接受的是國安調查他當時不是司法的部分歸司法國安的部分歸國安所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動\n\n09:06.393 --> 09:25.547\n國安局是情報機關,我們並不是司法檢查機關所以我們要問的是這名女子她是否在我們的國安調查當中認定是刻意的來接近國防外交的委員來竊取機密是針對這個部分,跟司法檢調無關的\n\n09:26.608 --> 09:27.328\n是否涉及境外勢力影響台灣選舉\n\n09:52.376 --> 10:16.524\n這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感因為確實是在選舉的期間那另外我剛才跟委員提到了這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關的黨政人士所以在時間上還有在特定對象上就我們國安單位來講我們不能夠排除有中共借選的問題所以你們在趙天麟案上面不能夠排除他們這個事件是有中國大陸這個借選的問題嗎對各種可能都有我們會協助檢調來釐清案情\n\n10:20.145 --> 10:42.560\n最近立法院上上下下接到很多的恐嚇信包含是韓國瑜院長包含是江啟臣副院長我們立法院的多名藍綠的立委請問目前掌握評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮對這個案子事實上他針對刑事局的一個專案調查因為不是單一個案這幾年有非常多的這個案件出現\n\n10:43.240 --> 11:12.040\n我們就針對近期發生的這件事情就好了目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示的是境外的入籍人士在進行這一種國安授課但是目前是沒有對臺灣的政壇有所謂的國安影響的單純就是比如說大陸的他是比較偏網路上面的這方面對,他有跟我們說明一下他現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇的對象大概有包括到主要的是桃園國際機場占最大量另外是總統府\n\n11:12.941 --> 11:34.560\n另外是警政署的署長信箱那接下來就是各個委員的相關的民意信箱因為時間的關係我還有一個小問題想要來請教你就是說最近金下海域的事件大家都非常關心我們大概國安層次對該事件的掌握我想要問在第一時間金下海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統\n\n11:35.857 --> 11:53.685\n有在第一時間我記得是發生在2月14號的下午中午大概一點多的時間那我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情質第一時間我所知道的是海巡的弟兄很辛苦的動員各式的船艦跟人員來進行搜救因為原來四名船員當中有一名一直沒有找到\n\n11:54.065 --> 11:58.129\n那請問我們在當時向蔡總統報告的時候是不是使用了我們海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告\n\n12:17.670 --> 12:32.299\n我們海巡也在是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下就是說我們海巡單位第一時間其實弟兄是有很清楚的把整個資訊過程都寫出來的請問我們是否是將該份報告上呈給總統參考\n\n12:35.135 --> 12:58.238\n公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送\n\n12:59.679 --> 13:18.815\n所以這份我們可能就是國安局長這邊請問一下我們所掌握的第一時間海巡提供的是不是就是把他們的報告送成交給蔡總統我們收到相關的意外事件都會把相關的最新的資訊報告海巡所以是不是我們兩位都在嗎就是海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的\n\n13:21.317 --> 13:40.965\n再給大家看一下很詳細的報告報告之後就拿這個報告然後我們也呈交給蔡總統讓他做國情相關的評估我們說到資訊來自各部會可能不只海巡還有其他單位沒有我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統就海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考\n\n13:43.099 --> 13:53.315\n我們是摘要報告往上送摘要報告所以這份可能沒有看你們沒有往上送這一份完整的是嗎\n\n13:54.372 --> 14:19.668\n上面有誰收過呢?署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告我們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統是更簡要的報告是嗎?是所以總統不知道最後一分鐘總統不知道你們在第一時間裡面寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆了解了那因為時間的關係相關情節我們都會整給政府決定單考\n\n14:20.770 --> 14:23.729\n海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況但我們都有整體的分析\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.431,"end":3.074,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請蔡局長"},{"start":13.035,"end":35.833,"text":"局長好我印象中2024年的選舉有傳出不少的影片跟錄音檔那當時大家都不斷的在問說到底是DeFake身為還是他被駭客入侵了那我今天就想要請問關於後續的調查結果我們所掌握的有相關於國安的情報部分是怎麼樣的"},{"start":36.713,"end":56.505,"text":"首先我們先看一下第一位是這個鄭文燦副院長那先前呢就有委員在去年10月的時候在當時在司法法制委員會那時候國安局也在那他就拿了這個相關所有的影片那提供給調查局跟國安局去了解是否為變造"},{"start":57.546,"end":71.682,"text":"那但是到現在都還沒有一個結果那我想要請問一下國安局我們有沒有去了解外流影片者的來源以及他的動機涉及國安情報的部分有沒有掌握其他類似的影片在外流傳"},{"start":72.903,"end":98.372,"text":"謝委員提到這個問題這案子因為引起社會非常高度的幫助所以在發生之後我們也有稍微了解一下相關的一個狀況不過這個案子的調查因為已經移送到司法檢察機關特別是檢調已經立案在偵辦當中所以目前的調查進度我不便說明但是對於委員在關注的有沒有從國安的角度來看到他相關的一個訊息散播的一個管道跟來源這個我們要去了解"},{"start":99.132,"end":121.16,"text":"這部分我們所了解到的是當時的一個IP的位置是位在中國大陸的上海由這個IP的位置來進行這種源頭的散佈這部分我們倒是有掌握所以相關資訊一定要提供給檢調單位參考您的意思是說這個鄭文燦副院長他的影片是真的是假的目前在司法檢調進行調查"},{"start":122.52,"end":151.799,"text":"但是我們從國安情報上來說呢他的來源是從中國大陸的上海在做一個散播那請問您認為這個影片在外流傳他是否有涉及所謂的境外借選的問題對這也是我們關切的重點我們認為在大選的期間有這些影片的出來那不管他的影片的真偽就他散布的一個時間點那以及他特別鎖定的希望透過這個影片打擊的對象來講我們不能夠排除有中國希望借選的一個動作在裡面"},{"start":152.319,"end":170.566,"text":"那您認為就是說在國安方面的資訊我們情報調查除了目前所揭露的相關影片以外就說有在媒體上面所揭露的影片以外國安單位是否有掌握其他的情資是關於鄭文燦副院長其餘的影片在外流傳的部分我們有沒有去做相對應的國安處理"},{"start":172.226,"end":188.185,"text":"目前還沒有看到其他的影片在網路上散布那假如有的話以我們的相關的技術跟系統都可以在第一時間來掌握好那第二個部分問到的是我們過去在國防外交的委員也是昭緯羅智政"},{"start":188.706,"end":207.488,"text":"那比較嚴重的呢我覺得不是影片的問題而是立委們都有質疑就國安有沒有去調查這個蔡總統被錄音的問題那請問在於蔡總統是否有被錄音這件事情國安局就我們的國安情資所收集的了解情況是如何的"},{"start":207.948,"end":231.957,"text":"對,是跟委員報告一下這個案子在第一時間就移送到調查局來處理所以相關的一個影片或錄音檔他的真偽的辨識我們認為還是要由司法警察機關來做裁判所以我們在司法檢調出來結果之前國安局不起動對於是否蔡總統錄音有國安其他的機密外流的問題的調查嗎還是我們有同步進行"},{"start":232.777,"end":252.918,"text":"對,假如檢調方面有來文希望我們國安局提供相關的資訊的話,我們會提供給...他們有向你們提供相關資訊嗎?目前應該還沒有,目前應該還沒有所以不曉得現在目前偵辦的情況如何?對,而且我們也不想去說明那個偵辦的事情因為我們非常的擔心,就是說如果這個羅志正委員他的錄音檔為真"},{"start":254.099,"end":272.374,"text":"那包含是平常他作為國防外交委員會的州委他平常跟包含我們很多三軍統帥包含國安局長您還有很多人都有對話的過程當中如果有錄音如果是從他的手機外流出去的那恐怕不只有蔡總統的談話被錄音局長您同意嗎"},{"start":275.424,"end":302.598,"text":"對我想對於各種可能性的推測我們尊重委員的一個猜測那因為他已經在偵辦過程當中我還是會建議由司法檢查機關但是司法檢調的部分他只會針對說這個比方說這個錄音是否為真他去做一個辨識可是我們今天擔心的是沒有被公佈出來的部分我們假定我們假先假定這個東西是真的那他外流出去了但他怎麼外流的他是否是被駭客入侵的"},{"start":302.978,"end":325.114,"text":"如果是被駭客入侵的．他有沒有去掌握所有的．包含我們現在可能包含我的手機．包含我們馬委員的手機．沈委員的手機．有沒有我們國防外交委員會的手機．被駭客入侵的問題．這一點司法檢調不會調查．這一點是國安單位應該要掌握的．請問我們國安局這一段時間起來．對於這些情資的處理做得怎麼樣"},{"start":325.914,"end":342.23,"text":"對,基本上我們不會對國內的政治人物做相關的政治的偵訪或資安的偵訪啦但是假如貴院的委員有這方面的疑慮的話那國安局很願意提供相關的專業的知識或提供必要的協助最起碼應該針對羅志正委員的這個部分要去做這更詳細的調查"},{"start":343.311,"end":360.297,"text":"因為他過去是國防外交的召委跟你跟在座的各位過去都有很多私下的談話假設這個為真而不是他個人主動外流是被其他人所竊取那我們就會合理的推斷還有其他相當多跟國防、國安機密的內容是外流的"},{"start":360.717,"end":362.458,"text":"但是我們國安單位不就是針對各種可能性我們都要去提前的防範嗎?"},{"start":390.53,"end":411.763,"text":"我們今天不能說如果今天流出了蔡總統的調查蔡總統的明天如果流出局長的調查局長的後天流出國防部長的調查國防部長的如果我們知道他外線是來自他錄音的手機有這樣子的可能性我們是否在情資上面的佈線就應該要更完整的來做相關的調查"},{"start":412.523,"end":439.562,"text":"對,我們會重視的還是在於資通訊的安全啦我剛剛有在跟委員報告的是我們不會去偵查委員的通訊的狀況不是去偵查委員的手機而是從各方面去了解是否有特定的駭客或是境外的勢力有要用他的這樣子的一個勢力去竊取包含是國防外交委員會的機密然後相關的機密是否已經在外流傳"},{"start":440.422,"end":464.541,"text":"這跟委員的手機你去調查他的手機是兩回事手機的調查那是檢調的事情那不關你的事但是有沒有其他國安的情資已經外洩那絕對是您的職權是吧對在這部分對於中共端的他有可能透過各種的一個滲透的手法包括資通訊各方所以我們是想要問針對這個委員的部分我們現在調查的如何我們從2024年的選舉過程到現在有做過任何的處置嗎"},{"start":468.864,"end":493.475,"text":"只要相關的一個案例發生之後就以這個羅委員的部分我們等一下還會問其他的人對就相關案例的部分就是有檢調來釐清相關方法所以國安局都沒有去做對就國安局的狀況來講我們會注意中共對於我們國內各種的知通安全的侵害再跟你確認一次就是針對羅智政委員的這個部分我們就單純的送到檢調國安局沒有做其他任何的處置對吧"},{"start":494.455,"end":520.906,"text":"對,我們剛剛也有在講,我們在溯源沒問題沒問題,我們再問下一位那這個跟手機已經沒有關係了這是當時我們資深的國防外交委員趙天麟委員因為他的緋聞對象是一位大陸局的女子當時就有非常多的立法委員詢問有沒有涉及國安疑慮當事人當下聲稱說他願意接受國安調查那請問這方面我們的調查結果如何有沒有涉入所謂的境外勢力介入選舉"},{"start":522.006,"end":544.593,"text":"這些案子剛剛講的委員提到的案子都已經送到了司法這個沒有啊 這個跟司法沒有關係這是他個人的私德的問題他個人也是把這個案子有移送到檢調局但是問題是他說他願意接受的是國安調查他當時不是司法的部分歸司法國安的部分歸國安所以我想請問在趙天麟案上面我們國安單位有沒有做相對應的啟動"},{"start":546.393,"end":565.547,"text":"國安局是情報機關,我們並不是司法檢查機關所以我們要問的是這名女子她是否在我們的國安調查當中認定是刻意的來接近國防外交的委員來竊取機密是針對這個部分,跟司法檢調無關的"},{"start":566.608,"end":567.328,"text":"是否涉及境外勢力影響台灣選舉"},{"start":592.376,"end":616.524,"text":"這個訊息出來的時間點確實是比較敏感因為確實是在選舉的期間那另外我剛才跟委員提到了這些影片所暴露的對象幾乎都是特定政黨的相關的黨政人士所以在時間上還有在特定對象上就我們國安單位來講我們不能夠排除有中共借選的問題所以你們在趙天麟案上面不能夠排除他們這個事件是有中國大陸這個借選的問題嗎對各種可能都有我們會協助檢調來釐清案情"},{"start":620.145,"end":642.56,"text":"最近立法院上上下下接到很多的恐嚇信包含是韓國瑜院長包含是江啟臣副院長我們立法院的多名藍綠的立委請問目前掌握評估有沒有國安相關的疑慮對這個案子事實上他針對刑事局的一個專案調查因為不是單一個案這幾年有非常多的這個案件出現"},{"start":643.24,"end":672.04,"text":"我們就針對近期發生的這件事情就好了目前刑事局所掌握的資訊顯示的是境外的入籍人士在進行這一種國安授課但是目前是沒有對臺灣的政壇有所謂的國安影響的單純就是比如說大陸的他是比較偏網路上面的這方面對,他有跟我們說明一下他現在透過這種網路郵件的恐嚇的對象大概有包括到主要的是桃園國際機場占最大量另外是總統府"},{"start":672.941,"end":694.56,"text":"另外是警政署的署長信箱那接下來就是各個委員的相關的民意信箱因為時間的關係我還有一個小問題想要來請教你就是說最近金下海域的事件大家都非常關心我們大概國安層次對該事件的掌握我想要問在第一時間金下海域發生這樣狀況的時候有沒有通知蔡英文總統"},{"start":695.857,"end":713.685,"text":"有在第一時間我記得是發生在2月14號的下午中午大概一點多的時間那我們在第一時間就有掌握相關的情質第一時間我所知道的是海巡的弟兄很辛苦的動員各式的船艦跟人員來進行搜救因為原來四名船員當中有一名一直沒有找到"},{"start":714.065,"end":718.129,"text":"那請問我們在當時向蔡總統報告的時候是不是使用了我們海巡弟兄第一時間所提出來的報告"},{"start":737.67,"end":752.299,"text":"我們海巡也在是否可以請他們也上來稍微說明一下就是說我們海巡單位第一時間其實弟兄是有很清楚的把整個資訊過程都寫出來的請問我們是否是將該份報告上呈給總統參考"},{"start":755.135,"end":778.238,"text":"公務委員報告我們上去的這個報告我不曉得那個到底有沒有整個給蔡總統但是我沒有但是是否有這份報告包含是管制長黃志誠海域執行官吳俊雄等人巡防組勤務指揮科他們是否有做相關的報告提供出來的時間我們那個案情的摘要部分會往上送"},{"start":779.679,"end":798.815,"text":"所以這份我們可能就是國安局長這邊請問一下我們所掌握的第一時間海巡提供的是不是就是把他們的報告送成交給蔡總統我們收到相關的意外事件都會把相關的最新的資訊報告海巡所以是不是我們兩位都在嗎就是海巡弟兄第一時間寫了很詳盡的"},{"start":801.317,"end":820.965,"text":"再給大家看一下很詳細的報告報告之後就拿這個報告然後我們也呈交給蔡總統讓他做國情相關的評估我們說到資訊來自各部會可能不只海巡還有其他單位沒有我只是想問這一份有沒有提供給蔡總統就海巡弟兄第一時間所做的相關報告有沒有提供給蔡總統做參考"},{"start":823.099,"end":833.315,"text":"我們是摘要報告往上送摘要報告所以這份可能沒有看你們沒有往上送這一份完整的是嗎"},{"start":834.372,"end":859.668,"text":"上面有誰收過呢?署長、許副署長、張副署長、主任秘書、巡防組組長、督察組組長都有收到這份報告我們不是上呈這份報告給蔡總統是更簡要的報告是嗎?是所以總統不知道最後一分鐘總統不知道你們在第一時間裡面寫的就是雙方船隻是因碰撞而導致翻覆了解了那因為時間的關係相關情節我們都會整給政府決定單考"},{"start":860.77,"end":863.729,"text":"海巡的部分我們不知道運作狀況但我們都有整體的分析"}]}}}}