{"id":149640,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149640","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300f2bfd53a396ae66a7e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a680da92c86ab9bf975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"09:36:54 - 09:44:05","影片長度":"00:07:11","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":431,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:44:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:36:54+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":239,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（9時37分）麻煩請陳耀祥主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，陳主委請。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝主委。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：我想先問一下，因為今天衛星廣播電視公會有提出了一些訴求，包括要落實媒體自主、還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規，我想問一下主委，你的態度是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：目前廣電三法在我們內部討論當中，有修法的版本，所以這個對衛星……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候送到我們院會？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：可能要等到下會期吧，因為4月底的時候就要提新的4個委員。"],["葉委員元之：主委，大家都知道科技日新月異，我想你當NCC主委應該非常清楚為什麼廣電三法要趕快修，就是因為數位匯流。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["葉委員元之：以數位匯流來講，現在你對電視的管制已經跟不上時代了，作為一個主委，我知道主委你也快退休了，不要有待退老兵的那種態度……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有……"],["葉委員元之：該做就要做，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們都在做當中。"],["葉委員元之：因為你也講不出一個時程。我今天就針對衛星公會提出的幾件事情跟你討論一下。NCC組織法第一條第一句話是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：組織法第一條第一句話？"],["葉委員元之：對，你不知道？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：就是黨政軍、媒體自主、保障言論……"],["葉委員元之：我是說第一句話，第一句話叫「落實憲法保障之言論自由」，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：保障言論自由。"],["葉委員元之：言論自由是擺在第一個，就是最重要，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["葉委員元之：什麼叫言論自由？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：言論自由就是人民有講話的自由。"],["葉委員元之：人民有講話的自由，包括他可以在很多平臺上講話，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是呀。"],["葉委員元之：所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他，甚至不讓他有講話的權利，對吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有莫須有的問題。"],["葉委員元之：沒有莫須有的問題，但不能隨便就管制他，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們在法律授權範圍內。"],["葉委員元之：我想請教一下，無線廣播電視臺在國外一般管制的理論基礎是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上叫稀有資源的使用。"],["葉委員元之：稀有資源，謝謝。稀有資源在1969年FCC的紅獅案已經被判是不合時宜了，你知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是FCC的問題。"],["葉委員元之：因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛！我們NCC為什麼會學FCC？那是因為我們認為過去的行政院新聞局兼具行政院的化妝師，有可能會球員兼裁判，所以才成立了NCC，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["葉委員元之：所以它是從FCC來的。FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了，為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上來講，頻道稀有的部分是在無線的部分，有線的如果是一般的衛星頻道……"],["葉委員元之：對，太好了！一般我們認為對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格，因為它有用到頻譜。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["葉委員元之：有線是一個商業機制、自己拉線，如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制，因為不稀有了，為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視管制成這樣？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：頻譜的稀有性還是存在的，就是這麼多頻譜……"],["葉委員元之：但是它不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個當然有不同的看法，這是不同看法……"],["葉委員元之：我其實也不是要跟你討論無線電視，因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視，衛星電視大部分都是在有線電視上架，有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道，現在最多可以到幾個頻道？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：大概三百多個頻道。"],["葉委員元之：科技日新月異，可能不只，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["葉委員元之：所以到五、六百個頻道都有可能，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果頻道數過多的話都有可能。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！所以基本上在這樣頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下，我個人認為你用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了。特別是如果再用一些先射箭再畫靶的方式去關一家電視臺，我認為是非常不恰當……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，這沒有牽涉先射箭再畫靶的問題。"],["葉委員元之：我接下來就跟你討論這家電視臺。當初主委你關中天電視臺的記者會我也看了，你開宗明義講的就是因為它受到檢舉非常多，還有就是它被裁罰很多，對不對？違規了25件。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：還有內控機制失靈。"],["葉委員元之：內控機制失靈是後面，你之前講的是違規比較多，對吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：違規也很多。"],["葉委員元之：第一個，檢舉的部分，我個人認為非常不合理，今天如果我要讓一家電視臺關閉的話，我動員人家去檢舉那家電視臺，就成為你NCC關臺的標準吔！第二，你所謂的裁罰25件，剛剛委員也問了，15件NCC已經敗訴了！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有15件敗訴……"],["葉委員元之：15件已經敗訴！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，中天只贏2件，我們是14件勝訴或確定……"],["葉委員元之：我是說訴訟當中的敗訴……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：還有10件……"],["葉委員元之：你有上訴我知道……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：只有10件而已喔！"],["葉委員元之：你有上訴我知道……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有……"],["葉委員元之：不管10件、15件，你都是很多嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有……"],["葉委員元之：你都是很多嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有很多，你一直……說到上訴……"],["葉委員元之：那你的標準根本很不一樣欸！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，我都是……"],["葉委員元之：這都是民脂民膏欸！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個是訴訟法的問題，要跟委員講清楚……"],["葉委員元之：主委，我就跟你討論其中一件，好不好？請問一下，有1件是這樣，有一個名嘴叫謝寒冰，他評論農委會失職、陳吉仲是最差的主委，因為針對九孔的價格，農委會居然用市價來講產地價，你知道嗎？你知道這個事嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個是有沒有落實事實查證的問題？"],["葉委員元之：當然有啊！法院認為有啊……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是你的……"],["葉委員元之：重點是那個是名嘴講的話，你怎麼會去罰電視臺呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，製播新聞……"],["葉委員元之：我想請教你，林右昌你認識吧？內政部部長你認識吧？你朋友吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：認識，當然認識。"],["葉委員元之：林右昌曾經公開指控盧秀燕，說盧秀燕是賣地王，因為盧秀燕在5年賣了37.5萬的地，對吧？結果實際上是5萬。林右昌你不罰他，你去罰報導林右昌說這句話的電視臺，合理嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，我們沒有任何的檢舉案說林右昌……"],["葉委員元之：所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們當然依法去處理啊！"],["葉委員元之：就要罰那個報導林右昌的電視臺喔？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我們是有法定程序的問題，人家檢舉，我們依法定程序處理。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，主委，所以你的意思是說，如果有人檢舉，你要去罰報導林右昌的電視臺嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我是說依法去處理。"],["葉委員元之：不是，你是先射箭再畫靶嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒有先射箭再畫靶……"],["葉委員元之：另外，有一個農民說文旦丟到曾文溪200萬噸，結果是他口誤了，應該是200萬斤，然後你罰它，你說什麼？也是因為沒有事實查證，是吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個是事實查證的問題。"],["葉委員元之：2分鐘就更正了啦！2分鐘就更正了啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，我們的法定程序上有很多，事實上……"],["葉委員元之：主委，如果隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個報導的電視臺，我們覺得太可怕了，誰沒有口誤過啊！賴清德口誤過，賴清德把賴品妤講成賴百妤欸！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是，委員，你剛剛講柚子那個案子，我們是勝訴確定喔！"],["葉委員元之：他把下架吳斯懷說成下架吳思瑤，誰沒有口誤過……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個不是只有口誤的問題……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，主委，我剛剛問你的其實非常清楚，我非常清楚，第一……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：你要看內容脈絡的問題……"],["葉委員元之：我時間也到了，不要占用人家時間太久。第一，現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了；第二，網路時代，所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路，實際上現在很多網路的影響力跟衛星電視相比都差不多了啦……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們是在執行大院的法律……"],["葉委員元之：第三，現在你如果可以用關臺的方式來箝制言論自由、你射箭再畫靶、沒有標準的話……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有關臺的問題。"],["葉委員元之：臺灣就沒有言論自由，這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們是落實貴院的換照制度啦！"],["葉委員元之：我希望主委你還有3個月的時間，我的主張是要廢除NCC換照的權力……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是法律修法的問題……"],["葉委員元之：你不能夠關一家新聞臺，這真的是箝制到新聞自由，謝謝！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是法律修法的問題，沒有言論自由的問題。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","下一位請黃健豪委員發言。本席先宣告，我們目前有收到臨時提案，大概10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案，謝謝。請繼續。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","吳春城","陳昭姿","黃國昌","麥玉珍","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","廖先翔","陳素月"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊\n傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"149640","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149640","tool":"pyannote","id":"149640-pyannote"},"job_id":"yATQLqHCN8obPamM","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"start\": 412.511, \"end\": 412.631, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 412.631, \"end\": 412.651, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 412.651, \"end\": 412.771, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 412.771, \"end\": 413.111, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 413.111, \"end\": 413.131, \"score\": 0.42}, {\"word\": \"葉\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 414.872, \"end\": 414.972, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 414.972, \"end\": 414.992, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,163 --> 00:00:32,909\n麻煩請陳耀祥主委好謝謝陳主委請謝謝主委好我想先問一下因為今天那個衛星廣播電公會有提出的一些訴求包括要落實媒體自主還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規我想問一下主委你的態度是什麼我們現在目前廣電商法也內部在討論當中有那個修法的版本所以這個對衛星公會什麼時候會送到我們院會\n\n2\n00:00:33,979 --> 00:00:49,114\n那可能要等到下會期吧因為我們這個4月底4月底的時候就要提新的4個名額那個主委因為大家都知道這個科技日新月異我想你當NC主委應該也非常清楚為什麼廣電三法趕快修就是因為數位匯流嘛\n\n3\n00:00:49,654 --> 00:01:11,204\n那所以慧柳現在你對於電視的管制已經跟不上時代了啦所以要做一個組我會知道你也快退休了不要有帶退老兵的那種態度該做就要做好不好對因為你也講不出一個時程那我今天就針對衛星公會他幾件事情我想跟你討論一下NCC組織法的第一條第一句話是什麼\n\n4\n00:01:12,781 --> 00:01:39,669\n組織法第一條議題就是我們在黨政軍啊媒體制度發動第一句話叫落實憲法言論自由啦好不好言論自由是本來第一個就是最重要嘛對不對那什麼叫言論自由言論自由就是人民有講話的自由啊人民有講話的自由嘛包括他可以在很多平台上講話嘛對不對那所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他甚至不讓他有講話的權利對吧沒有莫須有的問題\n\n5\n00:01:40,830 --> 00:02:01,250\n但不能隨便就管制他嗎對吧我講請教一下無線廣播電視台我們一般管制的理論基礎是什麼在國外在基本上叫稀有資源的稀有資源謝謝稀有資源在FCC在69年的一個紅屍案已經被判是不可思議的你知道嗎\n\n6\n00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:24,311\n那是FCC的問題因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛那我們NCC為什麼會選FCC那是因為我們認為說過去的行政院新聞局他兼具行政院的化妝師有可能會求人兼裁判嘛所以才成立了NCC對不對所以他是從FCC來的那FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持\n\n7\n00:02:25,598 --> 00:02:46,528\n沒有基本上來講他頻道稀有那個部分是在無線的部分有線的那個如果說一般衛星平台那這太好了齁一般我們是認為說對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格嘛因為他有用到頻譜嘛那有線是一個商業機制自己拉線嘛那如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制因為不稀有了\n\n8\n00:02:47,108 --> 00:02:55,375\n那為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視的管制怎麼樣但是他不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嗎那我現在我其實不是要跟你討論無線電視啦因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視衛星電視是大部分都是在有線電視上架嘛那現在有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道嘛那現在最多可以到幾個頻道\n\n9\n00:03:11,309 --> 00:03:38,528\n有大概300多個頻道喔300多個嘛那科技日新月異可能不止嘛對不對所以有可能大概五六百個頻道都可能嘛你如果頻道數過多的話都可能那所以基本上在這樣子頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下我個人認為你現在用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了特別是特別是如果說再用一些先設建再劃把的方式去關一家電視台我認為是非常不恰當沒有沒有\n\n10\n00:03:39,408 --> 00:04:04,654\n那我接下來就跟你討論這家電視台嘛我剛才電視台嘛當初主委你關中天電視台的記者會我也看了啦你開宗明義講的就是因為他受到檢舉非常多還有就是他被裁罰很多對不對違規了25件嘛還有內控機制失明內控機制後面啦你之前講的是你之前講的是違規比較多嘛對吧違規也很多第一個喔檢舉的部分我個人認為非常不合理啦\n\n11\n00:04:05,014 --> 00:04:20,226\n今天如果說我要讓一家電視台關閉的話我動員人家去檢舉那家電視台就成為你NCC關台的一個標準欸第二你所謂的裁罰25件剛剛委員也問了啊15件NCC已經敗訴了欸沒有15件敗訴15件已經敗訴沒有沒有沒有中天只贏兩件我們是14件勝訴\n\n12\n00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:42,742\n我是說訴訟當中的訴訟當中的敗訴你有上訴我知道你有上訴我知道10件15件你都是很多嘛你都是很多嘛那你的標準根本很不一樣欸這都是名子名高欸主委主委我都跟你討論其中一件好不好\n\n13\n00:04:43,542 --> 00:05:03,000\n請問一下有一件是這樣的有一個民主叫謝寒冰他評論說農委會失職陳吉仲是最差的主委因為針對九孔的價格農委會居然用市價來講產地價你知道嗎知道這是嗎這有沒有落實事實查證的問題當然有啊法院認為有啊重點是說那是民主講的話嘛你怎麼會去罰電視台呢\n\n14\n00:05:06,863 --> 00:05:12,127\n林宥昌曾經公開去指控盧秀燕說盧秀燕賣帝王因為盧秀燕在五年的時候賣了37.5萬的帝對吧結果實際上是5萬那林宥昌你不罰他然後你去罰報導林宥昌這句話的電視台合理嗎所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情你就要罰報導林宥昌的電視台喔\n\n15\n00:05:33,104 --> 00:05:33,985\n兩分鐘就更正了啦\n\n16\n00:05:57,948 --> 00:06:23,358\n兩分鐘就更正了啦主委你如果說隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個電視台我們這太可怕了誰沒有口誤過啊賴清德也口誤過啊賴清德把賴品瑜講成賴柏宇欸你剛才講又拿到他說我們是勝訴確定他說下架無私謠下架無私謠誰沒有口誤過我跟你講主委我剛剛講他的看點心非常清楚非常清楚第一因為我時間有點到不要佔我時間太久第一\n\n17\n00:06:25,559 --> 00:06:53,131\n現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了第二網路時代所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路啦實際上現在很多網路的影響力比衛星電視沒有說都差不多了啦然後第三現在你如果說可以用關台的方式來前置言論自由你先設建再發法沒有標準的話台灣就沒有言論自由這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由我們是落實對院都換照制度你還有三個月\n\n18\n00:06:54,872 --> 00:06:54,992\n葉元之\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5163\t32909\t麻煩請陳耀祥主委好謝謝陳主委請謝謝主委好我想先問一下因為今天那個衛星廣播電公會有提出的一些訴求包括要落實媒體自主還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規我想問一下主委你的態度是什麼我們現在目前廣電商法也內部在討論當中有那個修法的版本所以這個對衛星公會什麼時候會送到我們院會\n33979\t49114\t那可能要等到下會期吧因為我們這個4月底4月底的時候就要提新的4個名額那個主委因為大家都知道這個科技日新月異我想你當NC主委應該也非常清楚為什麼廣電三法趕快修就是因為數位匯流嘛\n49654\t71204\t那所以慧柳現在你對於電視的管制已經跟不上時代了啦所以要做一個組我會知道你也快退休了不要有帶退老兵的那種態度該做就要做好不好對因為你也講不出一個時程那我今天就針對衛星公會他幾件事情我想跟你討論一下NCC組織法的第一條第一句話是什麼\n72781\t99669\t組織法第一條議題就是我們在黨政軍啊媒體制度發動第一句話叫落實憲法言論自由啦好不好言論自由是本來第一個就是最重要嘛對不對那什麼叫言論自由言論自由就是人民有講話的自由啊人民有講話的自由嘛包括他可以在很多平台上講話嘛對不對那所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他甚至不讓他有講話的權利對吧沒有莫須有的問題\n100830\t121250\t但不能隨便就管制他嗎對吧我講請教一下無線廣播電視台我們一般管制的理論基礎是什麼在國外在基本上叫稀有資源的稀有資源謝謝稀有資源在FCC在69年的一個紅屍案已經被判是不可思議的你知道嗎\n121710\t144311\t那是FCC的問題因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛那我們NCC為什麼會選FCC那是因為我們認為說過去的行政院新聞局他兼具行政院的化妝師有可能會求人兼裁判嘛所以才成立了NCC對不對所以他是從FCC來的那FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持\n145598\t166528\t沒有 基本上來講他頻道稀有那個部分是在無線的部分有線的那個如果說一般衛星平台那這太好了齁一般我們是認為說對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格嘛因為他有用到頻譜嘛那有線是一個商業機制自己拉線嘛那如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制因為不稀有了\n167108\t175375\t那為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視的管制怎麼樣但是他不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嗎那我現在我其實不是要跟你討論無線電視啦因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視衛星電視是大部分都是在有線電視上架嘛那現在有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道嘛那現在最多可以到幾個頻道\n191309\t218528\t有大概300多個頻道喔300多個嘛那科技日新月異可能不止嘛對不對所以有可能大概五六百個頻道都可能嘛你如果頻道數過多的話都可能那所以基本上在這樣子頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下我個人認為你現在用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了特別是特別是如果說再用一些先設建再劃把的方式去關一家電視台我認為是非常不恰當沒有沒有\n219408\t244654\t那我接下來就跟你討論這家電視台嘛我剛才電視台嘛當初主委你關中天電視台的記者會我也看了啦你開宗明義講的就是因為他受到檢舉非常多還有就是他被裁罰很多對不對違規了25件嘛還有內控機制失明內控機制後面啦你之前講的是你之前講的是違規比較多嘛對吧違規也很多第一個喔檢舉的部分我個人認為非常不合理啦\n245014\t260226\t今天如果說我要讓一家電視台關閉的話我動員人家去檢舉那家電視台就成為你NCC關台的一個標準欸第二你所謂的裁罰25件剛剛委員也問了啊15件NCC已經敗訴了欸沒有15件敗訴15件已經敗訴沒有沒有沒有中天只贏兩件我們是14件勝訴\n264830\t282742\t我是說訴訟當中的訴訟當中的敗訴你有上訴我知道你有上訴我知道10件15件你都是很多嘛你都是很多嘛那你的標準根本很不一樣欸這都是名子名高欸主委主委我都跟你討論其中一件好不好\n283542\t303000\t請問一下有一件是這樣的有一個民主叫謝寒冰他評論說農委會失職陳吉仲是最差的主委因為針對九孔的價格農委會居然用市價來講產地價你知道嗎知道這是嗎這有沒有落實事實查證的問題當然有啊法院認為有啊重點是說那是民主講的話嘛你怎麼會去罰電視台呢\n306863\t312127\t林宥昌曾經公開去指控盧秀燕說盧秀燕賣帝王因為盧秀燕在五年的時候賣了37.5萬的帝對吧結果實際上是5萬那林宥昌你不罰他然後你去罰報導林宥昌這句話的電視台合理嗎所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情你就要罰報導林宥昌的電視台喔\n333104\t333985\t兩分鐘就更正了啦\n357948\t383358\t兩分鐘就更正了啦主委你如果說隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個電視台我們這太可怕了誰沒有口誤過啊賴清德也口誤過啊賴清德把賴品瑜講成賴柏宇欸你剛才講又拿到他說我們是勝訴確定他說下架無私謠下架無私謠誰沒有口誤過我跟你講主委我剛剛講他的看點心非常清楚非常清楚第一因為我時間有點到不要佔我時間太久第一\n385559\t413131\t現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了第二網路時代所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路啦實際上現在很多網路的影響力比衛星電視沒有說都差不多了啦然後第三現在你如果說可以用關台的方式來前置言論自由你先設建再發法沒有標準的話台灣就沒有言論自由這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由我們是落實對院都換照制度你還有三個月\n414872\t414992\t葉元之\n","txt":"麻煩請陳耀祥主委好謝謝陳主委請謝謝主委好我想先問一下因為今天那個衛星廣播電公會有提出的一些訴求包括要落實媒體自主還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規我想問一下主委你的態度是什麼我們現在目前廣電商法也內部在討論當中有那個修法的版本所以這個對衛星公會什麼時候會送到我們院會\n那可能要等到下會期吧因為我們這個4月底4月底的時候就要提新的4個名額那個主委因為大家都知道這個科技日新月異我想你當NC主委應該也非常清楚為什麼廣電三法趕快修就是因為數位匯流嘛\n那所以慧柳現在你對於電視的管制已經跟不上時代了啦所以要做一個組我會知道你也快退休了不要有帶退老兵的那種態度該做就要做好不好對因為你也講不出一個時程那我今天就針對衛星公會他幾件事情我想跟你討論一下NCC組織法的第一條第一句話是什麼\n組織法第一條議題就是我們在黨政軍啊媒體制度發動第一句話叫落實憲法言論自由啦好不好言論自由是本來第一個就是最重要嘛對不對那什麼叫言論自由言論自由就是人民有講話的自由啊人民有講話的自由嘛包括他可以在很多平台上講話嘛對不對那所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他甚至不讓他有講話的權利對吧沒有莫須有的問題\n但不能隨便就管制他嗎對吧我講請教一下無線廣播電視台我們一般管制的理論基礎是什麼在國外在基本上叫稀有資源的稀有資源謝謝稀有資源在FCC在69年的一個紅屍案已經被判是不可思議的你知道嗎\n那是FCC的問題因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛那我們NCC為什麼會選FCC那是因為我們認為說過去的行政院新聞局他兼具行政院的化妝師有可能會求人兼裁判嘛所以才成立了NCC對不對所以他是從FCC來的那FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持\n沒有 基本上來講他頻道稀有那個部分是在無線的部分有線的那個如果說一般衛星平台那這太好了齁一般我們是認為說對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格嘛因為他有用到頻譜嘛那有線是一個商業機制自己拉線嘛那如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制因為不稀有了\n那為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視的管制怎麼樣但是他不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嗎那我現在我其實不是要跟你討論無線電視啦因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視衛星電視是大部分都是在有線電視上架嘛那現在有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道嘛那現在最多可以到幾個頻道\n有大概300多個頻道喔300多個嘛那科技日新月異可能不止嘛對不對所以有可能大概五六百個頻道都可能嘛你如果頻道數過多的話都可能那所以基本上在這樣子頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下我個人認為你現在用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了特別是特別是如果說再用一些先設建再劃把的方式去關一家電視台我認為是非常不恰當沒有沒有\n那我接下來就跟你討論這家電視台嘛我剛才電視台嘛當初主委你關中天電視台的記者會我也看了啦你開宗明義講的就是因為他受到檢舉非常多還有就是他被裁罰很多對不對違規了25件嘛還有內控機制失明內控機制後面啦你之前講的是你之前講的是違規比較多嘛對吧違規也很多第一個喔檢舉的部分我個人認為非常不合理啦\n今天如果說我要讓一家電視台關閉的話我動員人家去檢舉那家電視台就成為你NCC關台的一個標準欸第二你所謂的裁罰25件剛剛委員也問了啊15件NCC已經敗訴了欸沒有15件敗訴15件已經敗訴沒有沒有沒有中天只贏兩件我們是14件勝訴\n我是說訴訟當中的訴訟當中的敗訴你有上訴我知道你有上訴我知道10件15件你都是很多嘛你都是很多嘛那你的標準根本很不一樣欸這都是名子名高欸主委主委我都跟你討論其中一件好不好\n請問一下有一件是這樣的有一個民主叫謝寒冰他評論說農委會失職陳吉仲是最差的主委因為針對九孔的價格農委會居然用市價來講產地價你知道嗎知道這是嗎這有沒有落實事實查證的問題當然有啊法院認為有啊重點是說那是民主講的話嘛你怎麼會去罰電視台呢\n林宥昌曾經公開去指控盧秀燕說盧秀燕賣帝王因為盧秀燕在五年的時候賣了37.5萬的帝對吧結果實際上是5萬那林宥昌你不罰他然後你去罰報導林宥昌這句話的電視台合理嗎所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情你就要罰報導林宥昌的電視台喔\n兩分鐘就更正了啦\n兩分鐘就更正了啦主委你如果說隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個電視台我們這太可怕了誰沒有口誤過啊賴清德也口誤過啊賴清德把賴品瑜講成賴柏宇欸你剛才講又拿到他說我們是勝訴確定他說下架無私謠下架無私謠誰沒有口誤過我跟你講主委我剛剛講他的看點心非常清楚非常清楚第一因為我時間有點到不要佔我時間太久第一\n現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了第二網路時代所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路啦實際上現在很多網路的影響力比衛星電視沒有說都差不多了啦然後第三現在你如果說可以用關台的方式來前置言論自由你先設建再發法沒有標準的話台灣就沒有言論自由這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由我們是落實對院都換照制度你還有三個月\n葉元之\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.163 --> 00:32.909\n麻煩請陳耀祥主委好謝謝陳主委請謝謝主委好我想先問一下因為今天那個衛星廣播電公會有提出的一些訴求包括要落實媒體自主還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規我想問一下主委你的態度是什麼我們現在目前廣電商法也內部在討論當中有那個修法的版本所以這個對衛星公會什麼時候會送到我們院會\n\n00:33.979 --> 00:49.114\n那可能要等到下會期吧因為我們這個4月底4月底的時候就要提新的4個名額那個主委因為大家都知道這個科技日新月異我想你當NC主委應該也非常清楚為什麼廣電三法趕快修就是因為數位匯流嘛\n\n00:49.654 --> 01:11.204\n那所以慧柳現在你對於電視的管制已經跟不上時代了啦所以要做一個組我會知道你也快退休了不要有帶退老兵的那種態度該做就要做好不好對因為你也講不出一個時程那我今天就針對衛星公會他幾件事情我想跟你討論一下NCC組織法的第一條第一句話是什麼\n\n01:12.781 --> 01:39.669\n組織法第一條議題就是我們在黨政軍啊媒體制度發動第一句話叫落實憲法言論自由啦好不好言論自由是本來第一個就是最重要嘛對不對那什麼叫言論自由言論自由就是人民有講話的自由啊人民有講話的自由嘛包括他可以在很多平台上講話嘛對不對那所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他甚至不讓他有講話的權利對吧沒有莫須有的問題\n\n01:40.830 --> 02:01.250\n但不能隨便就管制他嗎對吧我講請教一下無線廣播電視台我們一般管制的理論基礎是什麼在國外在基本上叫稀有資源的稀有資源謝謝稀有資源在FCC在69年的一個紅屍案已經被判是不可思議的你知道嗎\n\n02:01.710 --> 02:24.311\n那是FCC的問題因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛那我們NCC為什麼會選FCC那是因為我們認為說過去的行政院新聞局他兼具行政院的化妝師有可能會求人兼裁判嘛所以才成立了NCC對不對所以他是從FCC來的那FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持\n\n02:25.598 --> 02:46.528\n沒有基本上來講他頻道稀有那個部分是在無線的部分有線的那個如果說一般衛星平台那這太好了齁一般我們是認為說對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格嘛因為他有用到頻譜嘛那有線是一個商業機制自己拉線嘛那如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制因為不稀有了\n\n02:47.108 --> 02:55.375\n那為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視的管制怎麼樣但是他不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嗎那我現在我其實不是要跟你討論無線電視啦因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視衛星電視是大部分都是在有線電視上架嘛那現在有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道嘛那現在最多可以到幾個頻道\n\n03:11.309 --> 03:38.528\n有大概300多個頻道喔300多個嘛那科技日新月異可能不止嘛對不對所以有可能大概五六百個頻道都可能嘛你如果頻道數過多的話都可能那所以基本上在這樣子頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下我個人認為你現在用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了特別是特別是如果說再用一些先設建再劃把的方式去關一家電視台我認為是非常不恰當沒有沒有\n\n03:39.408 --> 04:04.654\n那我接下來就跟你討論這家電視台嘛我剛才電視台嘛當初主委你關中天電視台的記者會我也看了啦你開宗明義講的就是因為他受到檢舉非常多還有就是他被裁罰很多對不對違規了25件嘛還有內控機制失明內控機制後面啦你之前講的是你之前講的是違規比較多嘛對吧違規也很多第一個喔檢舉的部分我個人認為非常不合理啦\n\n04:05.014 --> 04:20.226\n今天如果說我要讓一家電視台關閉的話我動員人家去檢舉那家電視台就成為你NCC關台的一個標準欸第二你所謂的裁罰25件剛剛委員也問了啊15件NCC已經敗訴了欸沒有15件敗訴15件已經敗訴沒有沒有沒有中天只贏兩件我們是14件勝訴\n\n04:24.830 --> 04:42.742\n我是說訴訟當中的訴訟當中的敗訴你有上訴我知道你有上訴我知道10件15件你都是很多嘛你都是很多嘛那你的標準根本很不一樣欸這都是名子名高欸主委主委我都跟你討論其中一件好不好\n\n04:43.542 --> 05:03.000\n請問一下有一件是這樣的有一個民主叫謝寒冰他評論說農委會失職陳吉仲是最差的主委因為針對九孔的價格農委會居然用市價來講產地價你知道嗎知道這是嗎這有沒有落實事實查證的問題當然有啊法院認為有啊重點是說那是民主講的話嘛你怎麼會去罰電視台呢\n\n05:06.863 --> 05:12.127\n林宥昌曾經公開去指控盧秀燕說盧秀燕賣帝王因為盧秀燕在五年的時候賣了37.5萬的帝對吧結果實際上是5萬那林宥昌你不罰他然後你去罰報導林宥昌這句話的電視台合理嗎所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情你就要罰報導林宥昌的電視台喔\n\n05:33.104 --> 05:33.985\n兩分鐘就更正了啦\n\n05:57.948 --> 06:23.358\n兩分鐘就更正了啦主委你如果說隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個電視台我們這太可怕了誰沒有口誤過啊賴清德也口誤過啊賴清德把賴品瑜講成賴柏宇欸你剛才講又拿到他說我們是勝訴確定他說下架無私謠下架無私謠誰沒有口誤過我跟你講主委我剛剛講他的看點心非常清楚非常清楚第一因為我時間有點到不要佔我時間太久第一\n\n06:25.559 --> 06:53.131\n現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了第二網路時代所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路啦實際上現在很多網路的影響力比衛星電視沒有說都差不多了啦然後第三現在你如果說可以用關台的方式來前置言論自由你先設建再發法沒有標準的話台灣就沒有言論自由這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由我們是落實對院都換照制度你還有三個月\n\n06:54.872 --> 06:54.992\n葉元之\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.163,"end":32.909,"text":"麻煩請陳耀祥主委好謝謝陳主委請謝謝主委好我想先問一下因為今天那個衛星廣播電公會有提出的一些訴求包括要落實媒體自主還有要修正一些不合時宜的廣電法規我想問一下主委你的態度是什麼我們現在目前廣電商法也內部在討論當中有那個修法的版本所以這個對衛星公會什麼時候會送到我們院會"},{"start":33.979,"end":49.114,"text":"那可能要等到下會期吧因為我們這個4月底4月底的時候就要提新的4個名額那個主委因為大家都知道這個科技日新月異我想你當NC主委應該也非常清楚為什麼廣電三法趕快修就是因為數位匯流嘛"},{"start":49.654,"end":71.204,"text":"那所以慧柳現在你對於電視的管制已經跟不上時代了啦所以要做一個組我會知道你也快退休了不要有帶退老兵的那種態度該做就要做好不好對因為你也講不出一個時程那我今天就針對衛星公會他幾件事情我想跟你討論一下NCC組織法的第一條第一句話是什麼"},{"start":72.781,"end":99.669,"text":"組織法第一條議題就是我們在黨政軍啊媒體制度發動第一句話叫落實憲法言論自由啦好不好言論自由是本來第一個就是最重要嘛對不對那什麼叫言論自由言論自由就是人民有講話的自由啊人民有講話的自由嘛包括他可以在很多平台上講話嘛對不對那所以你不能夠用莫須有的罪名去規範他甚至不讓他有講話的權利對吧沒有莫須有的問題"},{"start":100.83,"end":121.25,"text":"但不能隨便就管制他嗎對吧我講請教一下無線廣播電視台我們一般管制的理論基礎是什麼在國外在基本上叫稀有資源的稀有資源謝謝稀有資源在FCC在69年的一個紅屍案已經被判是不可思議的你知道嗎"},{"start":121.71,"end":144.311,"text":"那是FCC的問題因為NCC就是根據FCC來的嘛那我們NCC為什麼會選FCC那是因為我們認為說過去的行政院新聞局他兼具行政院的化妝師有可能會求人兼裁判嘛所以才成立了NCC對不對所以他是從FCC來的那FCC現在都已經認為頻道稀有已經過時了為什麼我們NCC還要這樣堅持"},{"start":145.598,"end":166.528,"text":"沒有 基本上來講他頻道稀有那個部分是在無線的部分有線的那個如果說一般衛星平台那這太好了齁一般我們是認為說對於無線的管制要比有線嚴格嘛因為他有用到頻譜嘛那有線是一個商業機制自己拉線嘛那如果FCC都已經認為無線頻譜現在不需要管制因為不稀有了"},{"start":167.108,"end":175.375,"text":"那為什麼我們現在還要對於無線電視跟有線電視的管制怎麼樣但是他不是以這個為理論基礎去管制嗎那我現在我其實不是要跟你討論無線電視啦因為剛剛我們講的是衛星電視衛星電視是大部分都是在有線電視上架嘛那現在有線電視以前在數位科技不發達的時候是100個頻道嘛那現在最多可以到幾個頻道"},{"start":191.309,"end":218.528,"text":"有大概300多個頻道喔300多個嘛那科技日新月異可能不止嘛對不對所以有可能大概五六百個頻道都可能嘛你如果頻道數過多的話都可能那所以基本上在這樣子頻道稀有已經不存在的情況之下我個人認為你現在用現行的廣電法規去管那些頻道已經不合時宜了特別是特別是如果說再用一些先設建再劃把的方式去關一家電視台我認為是非常不恰當沒有沒有"},{"start":219.408,"end":244.654,"text":"那我接下來就跟你討論這家電視台嘛我剛才電視台嘛當初主委你關中天電視台的記者會我也看了啦你開宗明義講的就是因為他受到檢舉非常多還有就是他被裁罰很多對不對違規了25件嘛還有內控機制失明內控機制後面啦你之前講的是你之前講的是違規比較多嘛對吧違規也很多第一個喔檢舉的部分我個人認為非常不合理啦"},{"start":245.014,"end":260.226,"text":"今天如果說我要讓一家電視台關閉的話我動員人家去檢舉那家電視台就成為你NCC關台的一個標準欸第二你所謂的裁罰25件剛剛委員也問了啊15件NCC已經敗訴了欸沒有15件敗訴15件已經敗訴沒有沒有沒有中天只贏兩件我們是14件勝訴"},{"start":264.83,"end":282.742,"text":"我是說訴訟當中的訴訟當中的敗訴你有上訴我知道你有上訴我知道10件15件你都是很多嘛你都是很多嘛那你的標準根本很不一樣欸這都是名子名高欸主委主委我都跟你討論其中一件好不好"},{"start":283.542,"end":303,"text":"請問一下有一件是這樣的有一個民主叫謝寒冰他評論說農委會失職陳吉仲是最差的主委因為針對九孔的價格農委會居然用市價來講產地價你知道嗎知道這是嗎這有沒有落實事實查證的問題當然有啊法院認為有啊重點是說那是民主講的話嘛你怎麼會去罰電視台呢"},{"start":306.863,"end":312.127,"text":"林宥昌曾經公開去指控盧秀燕說盧秀燕賣帝王因為盧秀燕在五年的時候賣了37.5萬的帝對吧結果實際上是5萬那林宥昌你不罰他然後你去罰報導林宥昌這句話的電視台合理嗎所以只要有人去檢舉這件事情你就要罰報導林宥昌的電視台喔"},{"start":333.104,"end":333.985,"text":"兩分鐘就更正了啦"},{"start":357.948,"end":383.358,"text":"兩分鐘就更正了啦主委你如果說隨便一個人口誤就要罰那個電視台我們這太可怕了誰沒有口誤過啊賴清德也口誤過啊賴清德把賴品瑜講成賴柏宇欸你剛才講又拿到他說我們是勝訴確定他說下架無私謠下架無私謠誰沒有口誤過我跟你講主委我剛剛講他的看點心非常清楚非常清楚第一因為我時間有點到不要佔我時間太久第一"},{"start":385.559,"end":413.131,"text":"現在你們管制媒體的理論基礎已經不在了第二網路時代所有的人都可以透過電視去接網路啦實際上現在很多網路的影響力比衛星電視沒有說都差不多了啦然後第三現在你如果說可以用關台的方式來前置言論自由你先設建再發法沒有標準的話台灣就沒有言論自由這已經違反你NCC組織法第一條保障人民言論自由我們是落實對院都換照制度你還有三個月"},{"start":414.872,"end":414.992,"text":"葉元之"}]}}}}