{"id":149641,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149641","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300579d24902cb650497e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6a44382e63844f4285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"09:44:15 - 09:52:53","影片長度":"00:08:38","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":518,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:52:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:44:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":353,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（9時44分）謝謝召委，一樣請陳主委。"],["主席：陳主委請。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員早。"],["黃委員健豪：主委早。主委，先前一份媒體的報導跟專訪裡面，主委提到自己是待退弟兄，所以講話比較大聲，但是我要提醒一下，主委，你當過兵嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["黃委員健豪：對於待退弟兄是提醒5個字：老兵八字輕。最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任，但是該做的事情還是要做。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是，謝謝委員指教。"],["黃委員健豪：上週陳建仁院長在答復羅智強委員質詢的時候講說，他也認為新聞臺不應該由政府來關閉。我們要提到，其實這幾年大概最關注的就是中天新聞臺被NCC換照審查不過，當然它就關閉了，我想北高行也作出了相關的判決，當初也判決要撤銷這個處分。我想問一下，NCC對於北高行作為撤銷處分，你有什麼看法？你有什麼檢討？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們在上訴當中，而且我們認為法官對於我們評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚，所以我們上訴到最高行政法院。"],["黃委員健豪：我想根據北高行的判決書裡面，法院在判決這個事情的時候都是依據你們NCC提供的標準，所以我們今天想問的是，為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異、認知差距這麼大？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這就是準用的問題，跟委員報告一下，法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍、有沒有管制裁量的問題，我們認為這個是管制的……"],["黃委員健豪：主委，這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因，因為你看你今天講得出你們的理論基礎，但是我們看到那份簡報裡面，我們想問的是就執行狀況跟業務報告，你們是依據什麼去上訴？你們是依據什麼樣的理論再去跟北高行上訴一次？為什麼今天我們要講這件事情，因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢，NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司，當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由，包含剛剛委員也講到了，NCC組織法第一條就在保障言論自由……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告，相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣，不是只針對中天新聞臺，包括中天自己的中文台都是一樣的換照標準。"],["黃委員健豪：我同意啊！你說都是同樣標準，沒錯啊！但就同樣的標準，偏偏就有一家電視臺被關了嘛……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是有相關程序去處理……"],["黃委員健豪：同樣地法院也不認同這樣的標準。所以我今天要講的是，今天你要上訴的話……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果不認同這樣的標準，那一百多個案子都不予換照，我看這整個市場就天下大亂了！"],["黃委員健豪：那就是要問你們的標準在哪裡嘛！為什麼同樣的標準……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：就是同樣的標準嘛！"],["黃委員健豪：同樣標準？法院也不認同你今天這個標準！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們上訴……"],["黃委員健豪：你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見，因為你是行政機關，你要做這樣的裁量，但是你今天要提出上訴的時候，你要對立法院來說明你用什麼標準，我們今天要看到的是內容，為什麼你還會去提上訴？我想你是法學專家啦，如果你今天是做法官的話，我也不確定你會怎麼判決，但今天的判決，除了這個換照案你在第一審的時候被撤銷裁決之外，其他有9個案子，我想你們也有勝，但是通常都是中天新聞勝……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有！沒有！"],["黃委員健豪：所以才有所謂的15連敗的問題！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有15連敗的問題，我們目前已經勝訴，包括確定的就已經14個案件，中天才勝訴2個案件，而且……"],["黃委員健豪：那這些案件現在有的一審也勝啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告……"],["黃委員健豪：現在一審也勝啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告一下，基本上來講，中天換照不是只有裁罰這個部分，其實最嚴重的是大股東介入整個新聞台，讓新聞台的內控……"],["黃委員健豪：如果你要講大股東介入新聞台，還有另外的案子啦，我想待會其他委員也會講，但是我今天先針對這個法院判決，我想瞭解……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這是一個重要的議題啦！"],["黃委員健豪：我想瞭解NCC的態度，就像我剛剛提到的，主委，我要提醒，老兵八字輕，你今天竟然還是堅持要上訴，當然我們也只能尊重，但是我們要求你到底憑什麼、要依據什麼來說你要上訴？這個部分我要講的是，因為今天你上訴的時候並不是花你陳主委的錢，你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：中天也不是我的案子啊，中天是整個國家的案子，這是我們NCC……"],["黃委員健豪：對啊，是國家的案子，所以你應該受我們監督，今天才要求你要提報告出來嘛！今天為什麼不讓你上台報告，今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意，就是因為你的內容裡面完全沒有提到社會關注的幾個案子，不管是中天也好，不管是中嘉案也好，不管是三立新聞也好，鏡電視也好，在那份報告裡面完全都沒有，所以才急著進入詢答。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對於委員會的要求，我們會補充……"],["黃委員健豪：所以我們才要求你下一次還是要提一份完整的書面報告！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，OK！"],["黃委員健豪：主委，我再問你一件事情，當然這個東西是個猜想，你想想看，我們常講言論自由應該是要保障百分之百言論自由啊，你覺得如果今天鄭南榕在世的話，他還會去關中天電視台嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有真正百分之百的言論自由，如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇的言論怎麼會是言論自由呢？"],["黃委員健豪：這違法嘛！這當然不是言論自由啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊，所以說……"],["黃委員健豪：你侵犯了人身安全，當然不是言論自由啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以言論自由要在合法的範圍內……"],["黃委員健豪：但言論自由，今天電台要怎麼樣殺人放火？你把這個不同言論、不同立場的電視台視為跟殺人放火一樣，你確定這是你要講的話嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有！跟委員報告，為什麼要事實查證跟公平原則，尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁罰的問題，就是說……"],["黃委員健豪：你的事實查證……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個事實查證會跟這個有關係……"],["黃委員健豪：來，主委，至少以這個個案來講，你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院判決否定了，就像我們剛剛提到的，如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁罰電視台的話，那我這樣講……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是！"],["黃委員健豪：如果今天像林右昌講那個事情，林右昌講錯話，這麼多電視台報導，如果今天我具名檢舉，難道你就要裁罰電視台嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有！我們是依照法定程序處理的，有人具名檢舉，我們都是依照相同的標準、相同的程序去處理這個案子，到時候罰不罰是有判斷的問題，所以我們有諮詢委員會，有所謂的……"],["黃委員健豪：你的判斷標準是什麼？是不是事實嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：事實，所以是認定的問題嘛！到法院也是一樣的……"],["黃委員健豪：那我就問你啊，林右昌講的那個是事實嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這我不曉得啊！因為基本上來講……"],["黃委員健豪：林右昌就承認他錯啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我也沒有承認他錯，這個要調查嘛，是不是事實這個就是要調查的問題。"],["黃委員健豪：所以他講了之後，他自己承認錯誤，如果今天有人檢舉，把他第一時間講到的言論送到NCC裡面，你會認定他是事實還是不是事實？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我不曉得，這要由我們諮詢會去做認定，這個不是我認定……"],["黃委員健豪：所以今天以中天這個案子為例，在他的這些過程裡面，事實認定不認定是由誰認定？是由你們NCC認定還是由法院來認定？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員會來認定，然後我們還有所謂的外審……"],["黃委員健豪：那又回到我剛剛最一開始問的問題，在法院的判決裡面，NCC的很多裁決其實是敗訴的，所以我才想瞭解NCC對於這個敗訴的看法，那你們說還是要繼續上訴，所以我們再次的要求，今天這個話題到先到這邊，我的要求是既然你們NCC說要上訴，請問你上訴的原因是什麼，你應該要提供說明給本會的所有委員。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們會說明，這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分。"],["黃委員健豪：你就沒有說明嘛！所以才要求你要說明嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況，因為這可能不是個案，因為個案進行當中的部分……"],["黃委員健豪：我想NCC跟媒體互動是第一線的主管機關……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：在合法的範圍內跟委員說明清楚……"],["黃委員健豪：你應該很清楚當代社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大案子，你們自己常常看、每天看媒體的報導，應該很清楚，大家都幫你整理好了，哪些大案子是社會所關注的，我們本來也期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到，但是很可惜沒有。所以主委，我想待會所有的委員都會講……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們等一下會……"],["黃委員健豪：來，中天一定有這個案子嘛，中嘉的案子一定也是有嘛，鏡電視一定也有嘛，還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嘛……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：中嘉沒有申設換照的議題啦！中嘉不是申設換照的議題，如果說鏡電視，那是申設的問題沒有錯……"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那還有很多的議題，包括我們……"],["黃委員健豪：還有……系統台的問題，這個今天我沒辦法跟你花時間討論，因為剩下的時間不多，所以我要求你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的作法，你們想要怎麼做，送來這邊審，我們立法院同不同意，大家願不願意接受這樣的說法。因為你有你的主張這沒問題，但是我們也有我們的主張，這叫做言論自由，你們有你們的主張，但是立法院的委員們不一定同意你的這個主張，雖然你要卸任了，但是程序是延續下去的，我們還是希望能夠有這個標準，能讓大家依循的標準，不是說今天這個主委覺得這樣子或委員會覺得這樣子，好像……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我們是依法處理的。"],["黃委員健豪：標準就不一致了，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員的發言。","主委，國父孫中山先生歷經10次失敗後成功了，你們打官司輸了15次還繼續打啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們輸10次而已。"],["主席：你們還要打啊？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們還會繼續努力。"],["主席：那你們失敗的原因是什麼？我也不知道欸！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們會再做說明，但是這個就是一些比較法律專業的東西，如果委員有需要瞭解，我們會補充，謝謝。"],["主席：你們就投降吧，15次了，還要訴訟費費用，你錢很多是嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦！"],["主席：明年審預算，我把你的訴訟費全部都砍掉，你們自己出錢喔！哪有這樣搞的！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦，報告委員，我們沒有說那個，反正我們所編的相關訴訟費用就是這樣啦。"],["主席：黃委員剛才講了，你不要亂登嘛，盧秀燕委員根本沒有賣那麼多地，你寫那麼多地，你們要有一點舉證責任嘛，是不是？新聞有一點責任啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有、有、有，我們……"],["主席：你不要照登啊，那講誰跟誰通姦你也把他登上去啊，沒有這回事，你亂寫……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以要事實查證嘛！"],["主席：誰貪污，沒有貪污，你還寫上去，亂寫，你要有舉證的責任嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：當然、當然。"],["主席：好不好，你們注意一下，你們的新聞沒那麼自由欸！好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有啦，我們臺灣的新聞自由……"],["主席：別人在那邊登的話，你就搞死人家，你自己都沒事喔！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有，不是這樣子啦。"],["主席：好不好？好，你請坐。","下一位請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","吳春城","陳昭姿","黃國昌","麥玉珍","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","廖先翔","陳素月"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家通訊\n傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"149641","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149641","tool":"pyannote","id":"149641-pyannote"},"job_id":"ZVPpTbKY1eM6MeQO","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,449 --> 00:00:10,497\n我們目前有收到臨時提案,10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案,謝謝好,請繼續好,謝謝張偉,一樣我們請陳主委陳主委請館長\n\n2\n00:00:20,302 --> 00:00:36,240\n主委早主委先前的一份這個媒體的報導跟專訪裡面主委提到說這個自己是代退弟兄所以講話比較大聲但是我要提醒一下主委你當過兵嗎這個代退弟兄但是提醒五個字老兵八字親\n\n3\n00:00:37,909 --> 00:01:05,675\n這個最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任但是該做的事情還是要做上週的時候這個我想陳建元院長在答覆這個羅志強委員資訊的時候講說他也認為這個新聞台不應該由政府來關閉那我們要提到其實這個這幾天大家最關注的就是這個中天新聞台被這個NCC這個換照審查不過那當然他就關閉了嘛那我想這個北高興也做出了相關的判決當初也判決說要撤銷這個處分\n\n4\n00:01:07,455 --> 00:01:30,006\n那我想問一下我們NCC對於北高型作為這個作為這個撤銷處分你有什麼看法你有什麼檢討我們這個在上訴當中而且我們認為法官對於我們這個評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚所以我們上訴最高行政法院我想根據北高型的判決書裡面法院在判決這個事情的時候他都是依據你們NCC提供的標準\n\n5\n00:01:30,726 --> 00:01:51,378\n所以我們今天就想問的是說為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異認知這麼大這個就是說準用的問題我想我也跟委員報告一下法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍這個有沒有管制財產的問題對這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因因為你看你現在講得出你的理論基礎但是我們看到那一份簡報裡面\n\n6\n00:01:52,759 --> 00:01:54,761\n為什麼今天我們要講這個事情因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢啊NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由這個是剛剛我們包含說剛剛委員也講到了NCC第一條\n\n7\n00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:45,457\n相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣不是只針對中天新聞台包括自己中天的中文台都是一樣的換照標準我同意啊你是說同樣標準沒錯啊但就同樣標準偏偏就有一台電台被關了嘛那法院其實同樣的法院也不認同這樣的標準所以我今天要講就是說今天你要上訴的話一百多個案子都被不被換照我看這個整個市場就天下大亂了那就是要問你們的標準哪裡嗎為什麼同樣的標準同樣標準法院也不認同你今天這個標準\n\n8\n00:02:46,317 --> 00:03:06,158\n所以我今天要求是說你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見因為你是這個行政機關你要做這樣的裁量但是你今天要提出上訴的時候你要對立法院來說明你用什麼要標準我們今天要的看到是內容為什麼你還要提上訴我想你是法學專家啦這個如果你今天是做法官的話我也不確定你會怎麼判決\n\n9\n00:03:06,758 --> 00:03:23,631\n但今天的判決至少除了這個換照案你被第一審的時候你被撤銷裁決之外其他有九個案子我想沒有勝但是通常都是這個中天新聞來勝所以才有所謂的十五連敗的問題沒有十五連敗的問題我們目前已經勝訴報告要確定已經14個案件中天才勝訴兩個案件\n\n10\n00:03:29,155 --> 00:03:52,888\n那這些案件現在有的議審也剩啊?現在議審也剩啊?跟委員報告一下基本上來講中間換照不是只有裁法這個部分它其實最嚴重是大股東介入整個新聞台讓新聞台的內控如果你要講大股東介入新聞台還有另外案子我想待會其他委員會講但是我們今天先針對這個法院判決我想了解ACEC的這個態度就像我們剛剛提到的主委我要提醒啦老兵八字清啦\n\n11\n00:03:53,528 --> 00:04:21,050\n這個你今天竟然還是要堅持要上訴那當然我們也只能尊重但是我們要求你到底憑什麼要依據什麼來要求你要上訴那這個部分因為我要講今天你上訴的時候的經費並不是花你陳主委的錢啦你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢中天也不是我的案子啦中天是整個國家的案子這是我們NCC所以你不是應該受我們監督今天才要求說你要提報告出來嗎今天為什麼不讓你上來報告今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意\n\n12\n00:04:21,670 --> 00:04:47,689\n就是你的內容裡面完全沒有聽到社會關注的幾個不管是中天也好不管是中加也好不管是三立的議題目也好今天事也好在那份報告裡面完全都沒有所以才急著進去詢答所以我們才要求說你下一次還是要提份完整的書面報告那主委我再問你一件事情當然這個東西是個猜想你想想看如果今天我們常常講言論自由我們應該保障百分之百的言論自由\n\n13\n00:04:48,610 --> 00:05:09,212\n如果你覺得今天鄭楠榮在事的話他還會去關從電視台嗎沒有真正的百分之百的言論自由如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇這種言論怎麼會是言論自由呢這違法嘛這當然不是言論自由啊你侵害了人身安全當然不是言論自由啊但言論自由今天電視台要怎麼樣殺人放火你把你把這個不同言論不同立場的電視台\n\n14\n00:05:09,953 --> 00:05:32,206\n市委跟殺人放火一樣你確定這是你要講的話嗎所以說為什麼要事實查證跟公平委員尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁法的問題你的事實查證來主委按照至少以這個個案來講你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院來判決否定了而且如果就像我們剛剛提到的如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁法電視台的話\n\n15\n00:05:34,907 --> 00:05:36,028\n你的判斷標準是什麼?是不是事實嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:21,341 --> 00:06:22,422\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n17\n00:06:41,798 --> 00:06:43,460\n這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分\n\n18\n00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:28,281\n你就沒有說明嗎?所以才要求你要說明嗎?因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況：因為這個可能不是個案因為這個個案進行當中的部分在法律法的範圍的人也說明清楚應該也很清楚說當代這個社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大的案子你們自己常常在看每天在看媒體的報導應該也很清楚大家都幫你整理好了\n\n19\n00:07:29,002 --> 00:07:44,515\n哪些大案子是這個社會所關注的那我們也本來期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到但是很可惜沒有所以說我想主委我想待會大家所有的委員會講來中天一定是這個案子嘛中加案子一定也是有一定有嘛\n\n20\n00:07:44,795 --> 00:08:14,031\n禁電是一定也有嗎?還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嗎?中間還沒有申設換照的議題啦中間還不是申設換照的議題如果說禁電是那是申設的問題沒有那還有很多的議題同一個事情啊系統牌的問題啊這個今天我沒有辦法跟你花時間討論了因為剩下時間不多所以我是要求說你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的做法你們想要怎麼做那送來這邊審我們立法院同不同意嗎大家願不願意接受這樣的說法嘛因為你有你的主張沒問題但是我們也有我們的主張這叫言論自由\n\n21\n00:08:14,511 --> 00:08:14,671\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t10497\t我們目前有收到臨時提案,10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案,謝謝好,請繼續好,謝謝張偉,一樣我們請陳主委陳主委請館長\n20302\t36240\t主委早 主委先前的一份這個媒體的報導跟專訪裡面主委提到說這個自己是代退弟兄所以講話比較大聲但是我要提醒一下主委你當過兵嗎這個代退弟兄但是提醒五個字老兵八字親\n37909\t65675\t這個最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任但是該做的事情還是要做上週的時候這個我想陳建元院長在答覆這個羅志強委員資訊的時候講說他也認為這個新聞台不應該由政府來關閉那我們要提到其實這個這幾天大家最關注的就是這個中天新聞台被這個NCC這個換照審查不過那當然他就關閉了嘛那我想這個北高興也做出了相關的判決當初也判決說要撤銷這個處分\n67455\t90006\t那我想問一下我們NCC對於北高型作為這個作為這個撤銷處分你有什麼看法你有什麼檢討我們這個在上訴當中而且我們認為法官對於我們這個評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚所以我們上訴最高行政法院我想根據北高型的判決書裡面法院在判決這個事情的時候他都是依據你們NCC提供的標準\n90726\t111378\t所以我們今天就想問的是說為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異認知這麼大這個就是說準用的問題我想我也跟委員報告一下法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍這個有沒有管制財產的問題對 這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因因為你看你現在講得出你的理論基礎但是我們看到那一份簡報裡面\n112759\t114761\t為什麼今天我們要講這個事情因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢啊NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由這個是剛剛我們包含說剛剛委員也講到了NCC第一條\n137440\t165457\t相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣不是只針對中天新聞台包括自己中天的中文台都是一樣的換照標準我同意啊你是說同樣標準沒錯啊但就同樣標準偏偏就有一台電台被關了嘛那法院其實同樣的法院也不認同這樣的標準所以我今天要講就是說今天你要上訴的話一百多個案子都被不被換照我看這個整個市場就天下大亂了那就是要問你們的標準哪裡嗎為什麼同樣的標準同樣標準法院也不認同你今天這個標準\n166317\t186158\t所以我今天要求是說你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見因為你是這個行政機關你要做這樣的裁量但是你今天要提出上訴的時候你要對立法院來說明你用什麼要標準我們今天要的看到是內容為什麼你還要提上訴我想你是法學專家啦這個如果你今天是做法官的話我也不確定你會怎麼判決\n186758\t203631\t但今天的判決至少除了這個換照案你被第一審的時候你被撤銷裁決之外其他有九個案子我想沒有勝但是通常都是這個中天新聞來勝所以才有所謂的十五連敗的問題沒有十五連敗的問題我們目前已經勝訴報告要確定已經14個案件中天才勝訴兩個案件\n209155\t232888\t那這些案件現在有的議審也剩啊?現在議審也剩啊?跟委員報告一下基本上來講中間換照不是只有裁法這個部分它其實最嚴重是大股東介入整個新聞台讓新聞台的內控如果你要講大股東介入新聞台還有另外案子我想待會其他委員會講但是我們今天先針對這個法院判決我想了解ACEC的這個態度就像我們剛剛提到的主委我要提醒啦老兵八字清啦\n233528\t261050\t這個你今天竟然還是要堅持要上訴那當然我們也只能尊重但是我們要求你到底憑什麼要依據什麼來要求你要上訴那這個部分因為我要講今天你上訴的時候的經費並不是花你陳主委的錢啦你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢中天也不是我的案子啦中天是整個國家的案子這是我們NCC所以你不是應該受我們監督今天才要求說你要提報告出來嗎今天為什麼不讓你上來報告今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意\n261670\t287689\t就是你的內容裡面 完全沒有聽到社會關注的幾個不管是中天也好 不管是中加也好 不管是三立的議題目也好 今天事也好在那份報告裡面 完全都沒有所以才急著進去詢答 所以我們才要求說你下一次還是要提份 完整的書面報告那主委我再問你一件事情當然這個東西是個猜想你想想看 如果今天我們常常講言論自由 我們應該保障百分之百的言論自由\n288610\t309212\t如果你覺得今天鄭楠榮在事的話他還會去關從電視台嗎沒有真正的百分之百的言論自由如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇這種言論怎麼會是言論自由呢這違法嘛這當然不是言論自由啊你侵害了人身安全當然不是言論自由啊但言論自由今天電視台要怎麼樣殺人放火你把你把這個不同言論不同立場的電視台\n309953\t332206\t市委跟殺人放火一樣你確定這是你要講的話嗎所以說為什麼要事實查證跟公平委員尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁法的問題你的事實查證來主委按照至少以這個個案來講你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院來判決否定了而且如果就像我們剛剛提到的如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁法電視台的話\n334907\t336028\t你的判斷標準是什麼?是不是事實嗎?\n358131\t381101\t〔廣東話〕\n381341\t382422\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n401798\t403460\t這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分\n426520\t448281\t你就沒有說明嗎?所以才要求你要說明嗎?因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況：因為這個可能不是個案因為這個個案進行當中的部分在法律法的範圍的人也說明清楚應該也很清楚說當代這個社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大的案子你們自己常常在看每天在看媒體的報導應該也很清楚大家都幫你整理好了\n449002\t464515\t哪些大案子是這個社會所關注的那我們也本來期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到但是很可惜沒有所以說我想主委我想待會大家所有的委員會講來中天一定是這個案子嘛中加案子一定也是有一定有嘛\n464795\t494031\t禁電是一定也有嗎?還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嗎?中間還沒有申設換照的議題啦中間還不是申設換照的議題如果說禁電是那是申設的問題沒有那還有很多的議題同一個事情啊系統牌的問題啊這個今天我沒有辦法跟你花時間討論了因為剩下時間不多所以我是要求說你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的做法你們想要怎麼做那送來這邊審我們立法院同不同意嗎大家願不願意接受這樣的說法嘛因為你有你的主張沒問題但是我們也有我們的主張這叫言論自由\n494511\t494671\t謝謝黃健豪委員\n","txt":"我們目前有收到臨時提案,10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案,謝謝好,請繼續好,謝謝張偉,一樣我們請陳主委陳主委請館長\n主委早 主委先前的一份這個媒體的報導跟專訪裡面主委提到說這個自己是代退弟兄所以講話比較大聲但是我要提醒一下主委你當過兵嗎這個代退弟兄但是提醒五個字老兵八字親\n這個最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任但是該做的事情還是要做上週的時候這個我想陳建元院長在答覆這個羅志強委員資訊的時候講說他也認為這個新聞台不應該由政府來關閉那我們要提到其實這個這幾天大家最關注的就是這個中天新聞台被這個NCC這個換照審查不過那當然他就關閉了嘛那我想這個北高興也做出了相關的判決當初也判決說要撤銷這個處分\n那我想問一下我們NCC對於北高型作為這個作為這個撤銷處分你有什麼看法你有什麼檢討我們這個在上訴當中而且我們認為法官對於我們這個評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚所以我們上訴最高行政法院我想根據北高型的判決書裡面法院在判決這個事情的時候他都是依據你們NCC提供的標準\n所以我們今天就想問的是說為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異認知這麼大這個就是說準用的問題我想我也跟委員報告一下法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍這個有沒有管制財產的問題對 這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因因為你看你現在講得出你的理論基礎但是我們看到那一份簡報裡面\n為什麼今天我們要講這個事情因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢啊NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由這個是剛剛我們包含說剛剛委員也講到了NCC第一條\n相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣不是只針對中天新聞台包括自己中天的中文台都是一樣的換照標準我同意啊你是說同樣標準沒錯啊但就同樣標準偏偏就有一台電台被關了嘛那法院其實同樣的法院也不認同這樣的標準所以我今天要講就是說今天你要上訴的話一百多個案子都被不被換照我看這個整個市場就天下大亂了那就是要問你們的標準哪裡嗎為什麼同樣的標準同樣標準法院也不認同你今天這個標準\n所以我今天要求是說你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見因為你是這個行政機關你要做這樣的裁量但是你今天要提出上訴的時候你要對立法院來說明你用什麼要標準我們今天要的看到是內容為什麼你還要提上訴我想你是法學專家啦這個如果你今天是做法官的話我也不確定你會怎麼判決\n但今天的判決至少除了這個換照案你被第一審的時候你被撤銷裁決之外其他有九個案子我想沒有勝但是通常都是這個中天新聞來勝所以才有所謂的十五連敗的問題沒有十五連敗的問題我們目前已經勝訴報告要確定已經14個案件中天才勝訴兩個案件\n那這些案件現在有的議審也剩啊?現在議審也剩啊?跟委員報告一下基本上來講中間換照不是只有裁法這個部分它其實最嚴重是大股東介入整個新聞台讓新聞台的內控如果你要講大股東介入新聞台還有另外案子我想待會其他委員會講但是我們今天先針對這個法院判決我想了解ACEC的這個態度就像我們剛剛提到的主委我要提醒啦老兵八字清啦\n這個你今天竟然還是要堅持要上訴那當然我們也只能尊重但是我們要求你到底憑什麼要依據什麼來要求你要上訴那這個部分因為我要講今天你上訴的時候的經費並不是花你陳主委的錢啦你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢中天也不是我的案子啦中天是整個國家的案子這是我們NCC所以你不是應該受我們監督今天才要求說你要提報告出來嗎今天為什麼不讓你上來報告今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意\n就是你的內容裡面 完全沒有聽到社會關注的幾個不管是中天也好 不管是中加也好 不管是三立的議題目也好 今天事也好在那份報告裡面 完全都沒有所以才急著進去詢答 所以我們才要求說你下一次還是要提份 完整的書面報告那主委我再問你一件事情當然這個東西是個猜想你想想看 如果今天我們常常講言論自由 我們應該保障百分之百的言論自由\n如果你覺得今天鄭楠榮在事的話他還會去關從電視台嗎沒有真正的百分之百的言論自由如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇這種言論怎麼會是言論自由呢這違法嘛這當然不是言論自由啊你侵害了人身安全當然不是言論自由啊但言論自由今天電視台要怎麼樣殺人放火你把你把這個不同言論不同立場的電視台\n市委跟殺人放火一樣你確定這是你要講的話嗎所以說為什麼要事實查證跟公平委員尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁法的問題你的事實查證來主委按照至少以這個個案來講你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院來判決否定了而且如果就像我們剛剛提到的如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁法電視台的話\n你的判斷標準是什麼?是不是事實嗎?\n〔廣東話〕\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分\n你就沒有說明嗎?所以才要求你要說明嗎?因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況：因為這個可能不是個案因為這個個案進行當中的部分在法律法的範圍的人也說明清楚應該也很清楚說當代這個社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大的案子你們自己常常在看每天在看媒體的報導應該也很清楚大家都幫你整理好了\n哪些大案子是這個社會所關注的那我們也本來期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到但是很可惜沒有所以說我想主委我想待會大家所有的委員會講來中天一定是這個案子嘛中加案子一定也是有一定有嘛\n禁電是一定也有嗎?還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嗎?中間還沒有申設換照的議題啦中間還不是申設換照的議題如果說禁電是那是申設的問題沒有那還有很多的議題同一個事情啊系統牌的問題啊這個今天我沒有辦法跟你花時間討論了因為剩下時間不多所以我是要求說你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的做法你們想要怎麼做那送來這邊審我們立法院同不同意嗎大家願不願意接受這樣的說法嘛因為你有你的主張沒問題但是我們也有我們的主張這叫言論自由\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:10.497\n我們目前有收到臨時提案,10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案,謝謝好,請繼續好,謝謝張偉,一樣我們請陳主委陳主委請館長\n\n00:20.302 --> 00:36.240\n主委早主委先前的一份這個媒體的報導跟專訪裡面主委提到說這個自己是代退弟兄所以講話比較大聲但是我要提醒一下主委你當過兵嗎這個代退弟兄但是提醒五個字老兵八字親\n\n00:37.909 --> 01:05.675\n這個最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任但是該做的事情還是要做上週的時候這個我想陳建元院長在答覆這個羅志強委員資訊的時候講說他也認為這個新聞台不應該由政府來關閉那我們要提到其實這個這幾天大家最關注的就是這個中天新聞台被這個NCC這個換照審查不過那當然他就關閉了嘛那我想這個北高興也做出了相關的判決當初也判決說要撤銷這個處分\n\n01:07.455 --> 01:30.006\n那我想問一下我們NCC對於北高型作為這個作為這個撤銷處分你有什麼看法你有什麼檢討我們這個在上訴當中而且我們認為法官對於我們這個評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚所以我們上訴最高行政法院我想根據北高型的判決書裡面法院在判決這個事情的時候他都是依據你們NCC提供的標準\n\n01:30.726 --> 01:51.378\n所以我們今天就想問的是說為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異認知這麼大這個就是說準用的問題我想我也跟委員報告一下法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍這個有沒有管制財產的問題對這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因因為你看你現在講得出你的理論基礎但是我們看到那一份簡報裡面\n\n01:52.759 --> 01:54.761\n為什麼今天我們要講這個事情因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢啊NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由這個是剛剛我們包含說剛剛委員也講到了NCC第一條\n\n02:17.440 --> 02:45.457\n相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣不是只針對中天新聞台包括自己中天的中文台都是一樣的換照標準我同意啊你是說同樣標準沒錯啊但就同樣標準偏偏就有一台電台被關了嘛那法院其實同樣的法院也不認同這樣的標準所以我今天要講就是說今天你要上訴的話一百多個案子都被不被換照我看這個整個市場就天下大亂了那就是要問你們的標準哪裡嗎為什麼同樣的標準同樣標準法院也不認同你今天這個標準\n\n02:46.317 --> 03:06.158\n所以我今天要求是說你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見因為你是這個行政機關你要做這樣的裁量但是你今天要提出上訴的時候你要對立法院來說明你用什麼要標準我們今天要的看到是內容為什麼你還要提上訴我想你是法學專家啦這個如果你今天是做法官的話我也不確定你會怎麼判決\n\n03:06.758 --> 03:23.631\n但今天的判決至少除了這個換照案你被第一審的時候你被撤銷裁決之外其他有九個案子我想沒有勝但是通常都是這個中天新聞來勝所以才有所謂的十五連敗的問題沒有十五連敗的問題我們目前已經勝訴報告要確定已經14個案件中天才勝訴兩個案件\n\n03:29.155 --> 03:52.888\n那這些案件現在有的議審也剩啊?現在議審也剩啊?跟委員報告一下基本上來講中間換照不是只有裁法這個部分它其實最嚴重是大股東介入整個新聞台讓新聞台的內控如果你要講大股東介入新聞台還有另外案子我想待會其他委員會講但是我們今天先針對這個法院判決我想了解ACEC的這個態度就像我們剛剛提到的主委我要提醒啦老兵八字清啦\n\n03:53.528 --> 04:21.050\n這個你今天竟然還是要堅持要上訴那當然我們也只能尊重但是我們要求你到底憑什麼要依據什麼來要求你要上訴那這個部分因為我要講今天你上訴的時候的經費並不是花你陳主委的錢啦你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢中天也不是我的案子啦中天是整個國家的案子這是我們NCC所以你不是應該受我們監督今天才要求說你要提報告出來嗎今天為什麼不讓你上來報告今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意\n\n04:21.670 --> 04:47.689\n就是你的內容裡面完全沒有聽到社會關注的幾個不管是中天也好不管是中加也好不管是三立的議題目也好今天事也好在那份報告裡面完全都沒有所以才急著進去詢答所以我們才要求說你下一次還是要提份完整的書面報告那主委我再問你一件事情當然這個東西是個猜想你想想看如果今天我們常常講言論自由我們應該保障百分之百的言論自由\n\n04:48.610 --> 05:09.212\n如果你覺得今天鄭楠榮在事的話他還會去關從電視台嗎沒有真正的百分之百的言論自由如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇這種言論怎麼會是言論自由呢這違法嘛這當然不是言論自由啊你侵害了人身安全當然不是言論自由啊但言論自由今天電視台要怎麼樣殺人放火你把你把這個不同言論不同立場的電視台\n\n05:09.953 --> 05:32.206\n市委跟殺人放火一樣你確定這是你要講的話嗎所以說為什麼要事實查證跟公平委員尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁法的問題你的事實查證來主委按照至少以這個個案來講你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院來判決否定了而且如果就像我們剛剛提到的如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁法電視台的話\n\n05:34.907 --> 05:36.028\n你的判斷標準是什麼?是不是事實嗎?\n\n06:21.341 --> 06:22.422\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n06:41.798 --> 06:43.460\n這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分\n\n07:06.520 --> 07:28.281\n你就沒有說明嗎?所以才要求你要說明嗎?因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況：因為這個可能不是個案因為這個個案進行當中的部分在法律法的範圍的人也說明清楚應該也很清楚說當代這個社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大的案子你們自己常常在看每天在看媒體的報導應該也很清楚大家都幫你整理好了\n\n07:29.002 --> 07:44.515\n哪些大案子是這個社會所關注的那我們也本來期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到但是很可惜沒有所以說我想主委我想待會大家所有的委員會講來中天一定是這個案子嘛中加案子一定也是有一定有嘛\n\n07:44.795 --> 08:14.031\n禁電是一定也有嗎?還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嗎?中間還沒有申設換照的議題啦中間還不是申設換照的議題如果說禁電是那是申設的問題沒有那還有很多的議題同一個事情啊系統牌的問題啊這個今天我沒有辦法跟你花時間討論了因為剩下時間不多所以我是要求說你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的做法你們想要怎麼做那送來這邊審我們立法院同不同意嗎大家願不願意接受這樣的說法嘛因為你有你的主張沒問題但是我們也有我們的主張這叫言論自由\n\n08:14.511 --> 08:14.671\n謝謝黃健豪委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":10.497,"text":"我們目前有收到臨時提案,10點半休息以後來處理臨時提案,謝謝好,請繼續好,謝謝張偉,一樣我們請陳主委陳主委請館長"},{"start":20.302,"end":36.24,"text":"主委早 主委先前的一份這個媒體的報導跟專訪裡面主委提到說這個自己是代退弟兄所以講話比較大聲但是我要提醒一下主委你當過兵嗎這個代退弟兄但是提醒五個字老兵八字親"},{"start":37.909,"end":65.675,"text":"這個最後這個階段雖然你即將要卸任但是該做的事情還是要做上週的時候這個我想陳建元院長在答覆這個羅志強委員資訊的時候講說他也認為這個新聞台不應該由政府來關閉那我們要提到其實這個這幾天大家最關注的就是這個中天新聞台被這個NCC這個換照審查不過那當然他就關閉了嘛那我想這個北高興也做出了相關的判決當初也判決說要撤銷這個處分"},{"start":67.455,"end":90.006,"text":"那我想問一下我們NCC對於北高型作為這個作為這個撤銷處分你有什麼看法你有什麼檢討我們這個在上訴當中而且我們認為法官對於我們這個評分的標準並沒有掌握得清楚所以我們上訴最高行政法院我想根據北高型的判決書裡面法院在判決這個事情的時候他都是依據你們NCC提供的標準"},{"start":90.726,"end":111.378,"text":"所以我們今天就想問的是說為什麼法院的標準跟你NCC的標準有差異認知這麼大這個就是說準用的問題我想我也跟委員報告一下法律上所謂準用到底是準用到什麼範圍這個有沒有管制財產的問題對 這就是我們今天為什麼不想讓你報告的原因因為你看你現在講得出你的理論基礎但是我們看到那一份簡報裡面"},{"start":112.759,"end":114.761,"text":"為什麼今天我們要講這個事情因為你今天用的都是人民納稅錢啊NCC編列了這麼多預算打官司當初成立NCC是希望你們保障言論自由這個是剛剛我們包含說剛剛委員也講到了NCC第一條"},{"start":137.44,"end":165.457,"text":"相同的標準是一百多個案子都是這樣不是只針對中天新聞台包括自己中天的中文台都是一樣的換照標準我同意啊你是說同樣標準沒錯啊但就同樣標準偏偏就有一台電台被關了嘛那法院其實同樣的法院也不認同這樣的標準所以我今天要講就是說今天你要上訴的話一百多個案子都被不被換照我看這個整個市場就天下大亂了那就是要問你們的標準哪裡嗎為什麼同樣的標準同樣標準法院也不認同你今天這個標準"},{"start":166.317,"end":186.158,"text":"所以我今天要求是說你今天你要提上訴我們也不能有什麼意見因為你是這個行政機關你要做這樣的裁量但是你今天要提出上訴的時候你要對立法院來說明你用什麼要標準我們今天要的看到是內容為什麼你還要提上訴我想你是法學專家啦這個如果你今天是做法官的話我也不確定你會怎麼判決"},{"start":186.758,"end":203.631,"text":"但今天的判決至少除了這個換照案你被第一審的時候你被撤銷裁決之外其他有九個案子我想沒有勝但是通常都是這個中天新聞來勝所以才有所謂的十五連敗的問題沒有十五連敗的問題我們目前已經勝訴報告要確定已經14個案件中天才勝訴兩個案件"},{"start":209.155,"end":232.888,"text":"那這些案件現在有的議審也剩啊?現在議審也剩啊?跟委員報告一下基本上來講中間換照不是只有裁法這個部分它其實最嚴重是大股東介入整個新聞台讓新聞台的內控如果你要講大股東介入新聞台還有另外案子我想待會其他委員會講但是我們今天先針對這個法院判決我想了解ACEC的這個態度就像我們剛剛提到的主委我要提醒啦老兵八字清啦"},{"start":233.528,"end":261.05,"text":"這個你今天竟然還是要堅持要上訴那當然我們也只能尊重但是我們要求你到底憑什麼要依據什麼來要求你要上訴那這個部分因為我要講今天你上訴的時候的經費並不是花你陳主委的錢啦你今天上訴的經費是花NCC編列的人民納稅錢中天也不是我的案子啦中天是整個國家的案子這是我們NCC所以你不是應該受我們監督今天才要求說你要提報告出來嗎今天為什麼不讓你上來報告今天為什麼大家對你的報告不滿意"},{"start":261.67,"end":287.689,"text":"就是你的內容裡面 完全沒有聽到社會關注的幾個不管是中天也好 不管是中加也好 不管是三立的議題目也好 今天事也好在那份報告裡面 完全都沒有所以才急著進去詢答 所以我們才要求說你下一次還是要提份 完整的書面報告那主委我再問你一件事情當然這個東西是個猜想你想想看 如果今天我們常常講言論自由 我們應該保障百分之百的言論自由"},{"start":288.61,"end":309.212,"text":"如果你覺得今天鄭楠榮在事的話他還會去關從電視台嗎沒有真正的百分之百的言論自由如果你說殺人放火這種恐嚇這種言論怎麼會是言論自由呢這違法嘛這當然不是言論自由啊你侵害了人身安全當然不是言論自由啊但言論自由今天電視台要怎麼樣殺人放火你把你把這個不同言論不同立場的電視台"},{"start":309.953,"end":332.206,"text":"市委跟殺人放火一樣你確定這是你要講的話嗎所以說為什麼要事實查證跟公平委員尤其事實查證部分為什麼會有裁法的問題你的事實查證來主委按照至少以這個個案來講你的事實查證很多到後面都被法院來判決否定了而且如果就像我們剛剛提到的如果今天任何一個人在電視台講話你就要去裁法電視台的話"},{"start":334.907,"end":336.028,"text":"你的判斷標準是什麼?是不是事實嗎?"},{"start":358.131,"end":381.101,"text":"〔廣東話〕"},{"start":381.341,"end":382.422,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":401.798,"end":403.46,"text":"這個本來就是我們應該要說明的部分"},{"start":426.52,"end":448.281,"text":"你就沒有說明嗎?所以才要求你要說明嗎?因為今天的專題報告要寫到什麼執行狀況：因為這個可能不是個案因為這個個案進行當中的部分在法律法的範圍的人也說明清楚應該也很清楚說當代這個社會上大家關心的議題是哪些重大的案子你們自己常常在看每天在看媒體的報導應該也很清楚大家都幫你整理好了"},{"start":449.002,"end":464.515,"text":"哪些大案子是這個社會所關注的那我們也本來期待在今天的報告裡面能夠看到但是很可惜沒有所以說我想主委我想待會大家所有的委員會講來中天一定是這個案子嘛中加案子一定也是有一定有嘛"},{"start":464.795,"end":494.031,"text":"禁電是一定也有嗎?還有三立新聞的事情一定也有嗎?中間還沒有申設換照的議題啦中間還不是申設換照的議題如果說禁電是那是申設的問題沒有那還有很多的議題同一個事情啊系統牌的問題啊這個今天我沒有辦法跟你花時間討論了因為剩下時間不多所以我是要求說你們在這個報告裡面應該具體的提出真正的做法你們想要怎麼做那送來這邊審我們立法院同不同意嗎大家願不願意接受這樣的說法嘛因為你有你的主張沒問題但是我們也有我們的主張這叫言論自由"},{"start":494.511,"end":494.671,"text":"謝謝黃健豪委員"}]}}}}