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10:34:54","影片長度":"00:09:19","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-5"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":559,"end_time":"2024-03-11T10:34:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T10:25:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":465,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時25分）謝謝召委，我們有請我們的李主委。"],["主席：好，有請主委。"],["高金委員素梅：主委早安。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：1月13日總統、副總統的選舉已經落幕了，選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會，你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關原住民投票疏失的狀況，然而主委您知道嗎？是真的很順利嗎？還是我們中選會選擇性的沒有看到？為什麼？為什麼？","我要在這邊提幾個我看到的、我們族人跟我陳情的狀況，有不發，還有漏發、錯發原民選票的新聞，而且是一而再，再而三喔！第一個狀況是漏給族人立法委員選票，我們有總統、副總統，還有政黨選票，但是並沒有給他原住民的選票，因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問，所以他投了前面幾張選票，而對原住民最重要、他自己身分的原住民選票並沒有投進去，因為沒有給他選票。第二個是漏給族人立委的選票，經過現場抗議之後，選務人員把他應該要有的選票從底下拿出來。你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果是有個案……"],["高金委員素梅：你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果有個案的話，我們都會請該地的選委會來進行調查，目前……"],["高金委員素梅：好啦，按照選務的規定，上述這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦！為什麼你知道嗎？主委。因為投票所無法錄音錄影，然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據去申訴，因此你這邊不會有這樣的消息。但是8年來這種狀況比比皆是，尤其是這一次，我們辦公室接到現場非常多族人的反映，然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案，請他們趕快去處理這個問題。所以主委你知道嗎？在你們的工作人員手冊裡面其實是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的，可是在歷次投票當中，還是有族人跟我們求救，表示你們中選會並沒有真正在選務上去落實這個事情啊！我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉、歧視原住民，但是這裡面的確有疏失，對吧？主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：的確，過去曾經有若干個案被檢舉……"],["高金委員素梅：不只過去，這一次我辦公室就收到非常多。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們如果有這方面的訊息……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有「如果」，確實就有！你們要怎麼處理？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們也都會要求地方……"],["高金委員素梅：怎麼要求？"],["李主任委員進勇：要求地方調查跟檢討……"],["高金委員素梅：怎麼檢討？"],["李主任委員進勇：每次在我們工作檢討會的時候……"],["高金委員素梅：怎麼檢討？請你告訴我，落實一下好不好？怎麼檢討？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別要求，在相關作業規範的部分都有明確的……"],["高金委員素梅：我現在請問您，給您1分鐘的時間，說明你們要怎麼樣來落實。平地原住民跟山地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的選務人員也許會有疏忽，但是第一點我們要特別澄清的是，他不會有所謂歧視的問題。"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，所以我不願意用「歧視」這2個字，所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實，而且這也沒有政黨的問題，所以我現在告訴你，請你告訴我要怎麼落實！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的作業規範已經訂了，也加強訓練了宣導了，如果還有……"],["高金委員素梅：主委，你知不知道各個縣市只要是原住民的地區，都有原住民局處？"],["李主任委員進勇：嗯。"],["高金委員素梅：您知道嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：你不知道？"],["李主任委員進勇：地方政府有。"],["高金委員素梅：有原民局處嘛！這是法律規定的嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：第二個，在我們教育體系裡面也有原民中心，而不管是原民局處或者是原民中心，尤其是原民中心，都是我們學校的老師或主任去兼任相關的工作，因為各地方選務往往敏感度提高，你們能不能讓這些人參與選務工作？可以嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們擴大宣導。"],["高金委員素梅：這是我非常建議你們的部分，而且也是可以具體落實的，可以嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：好的，我們謝謝委員的指教。"],["高金委員素梅：你們已經好多年都沒解決這個問題了，現在本席已經提供你們具體落實的方式，請在1個月內提供你們的改善措施，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：好的，謝謝。"],["高金委員素梅：接下來，原住民還有2個問題沒有辦法解決，一直以來你們也不重視，第一個是秘密投票，103年就有立委針對這個事情提出質疑，你們也說中選會對於原住民投票隱私權向來是高度重視的，結果呢？過了17年，在上一屆（2020年）的立委選舉當中，全臺灣山地原住民的投票所有1萬557間，其中選舉人3人以下的有4,166間，占39.5%，投票率為零的有926間，占22.2%，你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎？在3人以下的投票所投票，選舉人覺得自己會被迫亮票，所以有926間投票率為零，因為選舉人覺得自己會被人家看到自己的投票取向而不願意去投票。所以有這麼多山地原住民族人和平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而使他們的投票權被剝奪，你覺得這個部分該不該解決、處理？"],["李主任委員進勇：投票秘密當然是非常重要的一個選舉要件，我們也努力希望能夠消弭這樣的情況……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有努力啊！到現在還沒有改變啊！","我們看一下數據，2020年總統、副總統選舉的投票率是74.9%，而山地原住民的投票率是68.6%，比總統、副總統投票率低了6.3%，平地原住民投票率是62.3%，比總統、副總統投票率低了12.6%。再看一下這次（2024年）的投票率，總統、副總統選舉的投票率是71.86%，山地原住民的投票率是64.32%，比總統、副總統投票率低了7.54%，平地原住民投票率是58.25%，比總統、副總統投票率低了13.61%。你看到了嗎？不管是山地原住民或平地原住民，我們的投票率都那麼低耶！主委，17年來都沒有改變這個問題耶！第一個是秘密投票的問題，第二個是投票率低的問題。請問要怎麼解決、處理？"],["李主任委員進勇：我跟委員報告，要維持、保障投票秘密，在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服，我們……"],["高金委員素梅：怎麼處理？不要一直告訴我「技術上」，17年來都一直在技術性地解決，你們到底有沒有誠意要處理、解決呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：我跟委員報告我們做的兩個重點，第一個重點是，因為這牽涉到原住民本身的意願我們要予以尊重，我們不能夠強制來變更……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道你會這麼回答我，主委，我在這邊提醒您，你們這是非常消極的作為！"],["李主任委員進勇：第二個……"],["高金委員素梅：中選會就必須來處理、解決問題，這是身為一個公務人員、政府應該做的事情好不好？","這個問題也請在1個月之內提出解決方案給我。"],["李主任委員進勇：沒問題，我們所做的努力啦！"],["高金委員素梅：你們沒有努力！對不起！"],["李主任委員進勇：有！"],["高金委員素梅：另外，我們看到110年中選會包含主委共6名委員上任的時候，針對不在籍投票，你們多數是採正面的看法，這些公報上都有記錄，你們是採正面的看法，只是策略上你們希望逐步施行，是不是這樣子？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我告訴您，我反對逐步施行！以臺灣數位科技廠商的能耐，2年之內的時間就可以做到全面實施，所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題和回應立法院了！當然，我們也已經提案了。","最後提醒您要在1個月內告訴我怎麼解決的部分，第一，中選會就選務再教育，包含應發未發、應發而錯發或漏發原住民選票的情形，請在1個月之內提出有效的做法；第二，針對秘密投票和原住民投票率非常低落的問題，提出它的問題點和有效解決方案。請在1個月內給我提出這2份報告，如果您願意的話，我也歡迎您到本辦公室來，我們好好地做交流，不能一直以來都對原住民的投票權益、投票率低落和秘密投票的問題，以及我們所說的選務不落實的問題都不予解決、放任它繼續發生。好不好？主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：好。我們有做努力，也會依限提出我們的報告。"],["高金委員素梅：好，1個月之內，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金素梅召委和中選會主委，請主委一個月到召委辦公室提出報告。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會提出報告。"],["主席：好，謝謝，召委，可以吧？"],["高金委員素梅：還有解決方案，不是只有報告，要有如何解決……"],["主席：好。","請下一位丁學忠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-5","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","黃建賓","王美惠","徐欣瑩","黃捷","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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\"所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 104.705, \"end\": 104.905, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 104.905, \"end\": 105.106, \"score\": 0.611}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 105.106, \"end\": 105.426, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 105.426, \"end\": 106.067, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 106.067, \"end\": 106.327, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 106.327, \"end\": 106.527, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 106.527, \"end\": 106.968, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 106.968, \"end\": 107.208, \"score\": 0.603}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 107.208, \"end\": 107.548, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 107.548, \"end\": 107.648, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"消\", 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{\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 531.123, \"end\": 531.384, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 531.384, \"end\": 531.944, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 531.944, \"end\": 532.124, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 532.124, \"end\": 532.444, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 532.444, \"end\": 532.705, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 532.705, \"end\": 532.945, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 532.945, \"end\": 533.145, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 533.145, \"end\": 533.345, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 533.345, \"end\": 533.825, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 533.825, \"end\": 534.386, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 534.386, \"end\": 534.566, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 534.566, \"end\": 534.766, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"票\", 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\"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 538.468, \"end\": 538.648, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 538.648, \"end\": 539.849, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 539.849, \"end\": 539.989, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 539.989, \"end\": 540.33, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 540.33, \"end\": 540.35, \"score\": 0.502}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 541.17, \"end\": 541.19, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 541.19, \"end\": 541.411, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 541.411, \"end\": 541.591, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"梅\", \"start\": 541.591, \"end\": 541.671, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 541.671, \"end\": 541.771, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 541.771, \"end\": 541.791, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,099 --> 00:00:26,553\n主委早安1月13號總統副總統跟立法委員的選舉已經落幕了選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關於原住民投票疏失的狀況然而主委您知道嗎是真的那麼順利嗎還是我們中選會你們選擇性的沒有看到為什麼\n\n2\n00:00:29,255 --> 00:00:50,885\n我在這邊再提幾個我看到的狀況我們族人跟我的澄清有不發還有漏發錯發原名選票的新聞而且是一而再再而三喔第一個狀況族人漏給立法委員選票因此呢我們有總統的有政黨的選票但是他並沒有給他原住民的選票\n\n3\n00:00:51,425 --> 00:01:18,488\n然後因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問所以他投了前面幾張的選票而原住民最重要他自己的身份的原住民選票並沒有投進去因為沒有給他選票第二個是族人漏給了立委的選票經過現場抗議之後我們的選舉人從底下拿出了他應該要有的選票拿出來你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失\n\n4\n00:01:20,469 --> 00:01:42,984\n你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況如果有個案的話我們都會進行調查都會請該地的選委會來進行調查按照選務的規定你們上面這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦因為為什麼你知道嗎主委是因為投票所無法錄音錄影然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據申訴\n\n5\n00:01:44,705 --> 00:02:03,486\n所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題\n\n6\n00:02:05,948 --> 00:02:32,663\n所以主委你知道嗎在你們工作人員手冊裡面其實你們是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的可是呢在歷次的投票當中還是有族人跟我們求救啊表示你們中選會並沒有真正的在選務上面去落實這個事情啊我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉歧視原住民但是這裡面的確有疏失對吧主委\n\n7\n00:02:33,643 --> 00:02:49,071\n的確過去曾經有若干的個案被檢舉不只過去這一次我辦公室就收到了非常多的我們如果有這方面的訊息沒有如果確實有你們要怎麼處理對我們也都會要求地方檢查跟檢討怎麼檢討那每次在我們的工作的怎麼檢討請你告訴我落實一下好不好\n\n8\n00:02:57,976 --> 00:03:00,639\n我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別的要求在相關的這個作業規範那你要怎麼來我現在請問您給你一分鐘的時間你要怎麼樣來落實1地原住民跟3地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的對不對\n\n9\n00:03:13,554 --> 00:03:25,006\n我們的選務人員也許會有束縛但是第一點我們要特別澄清的他不會有所謂歧視的問題我知道我說我不願意用歧視這兩個字所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實而且他也沒有政黨的問題所以我現在告訴你請你告訴我要怎麼落實我們的這個作業的規範已經定了\n\n10\n00:03:33,975 --> 00:04:02,574\n加強訓練、宣導：您知不知道在各個地方在各個縣市裡面都有只要是原住民的地區都有原住民局處你知道嗎?你不知道?有原民局處這是法律規定的第二個在我們的教育體系裡面也有原民中心不管是原民局處或是原民中心尤其是原民中心都是我們學校的\n\n11\n00:04:03,114 --> 00:04:03,234\n謝謝委員的指教\n\n12\n00:04:23,933 --> 00:04:49,164\n你們已經好多年沒有解決這個問題了我一個月之內幫我請提供我剛剛也提供了你具體落實的方式所以一個月告訴我提供你們應該要改善的措施好不好接著再來就是原住民還有兩個問題沒有辦法解決一直以來你們也不重視第一個就是秘密投票103年的時候立委針對這個事情就質疑了而你們的中選會也說\n\n13\n00:04:51,198 --> 00:05:03,232\n對於原住民投票隱私權你們向來是高度重視的結果呢過了17年再上一屆看一下2020年的立委選舉我們全台灣3地原住民的投票所有10557個\n\n14\n00:05:07,637 --> 00:05:15,646\n然後在這個當中有3個人之內的投票所有4166間佔了39.5%然後有29間投票率是0的佔了22.2%你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎第一個3個人之內的他會被覺得他會被迫亮票\n\n15\n00:05:32,043 --> 00:05:48,077\n926間是零的因為他不願意去投票因為他也覺得他會被人家看到他投票的取向所以就是說有這麼多我們的山地原住民的族人跟平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而讓他們剝奪了投票的權利你覺得這該不該解決處理\n\n16\n00:05:50,539 --> 00:06:02,973\n當然這個投票秘密是非常重要的一個選舉的要件那我們也努力的希望能夠消弭這樣子的情況沒有努力啊到現在還沒有改變啊我們看一下數據2020年總統投票率是74.9%而3D原住民的投票率68.6%比總統低了6.3%\n\n17\n00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:14,104\n平地原住民投票率62.3%比總統投票率低了12.6%再來看一下這次2024的投票率總統的投票率是71.86%3地原住民投票率是60.32%比總統投票率低了7.54%\n\n18\n00:06:27,975 --> 00:06:52,534\n平地原住民投票率58.25%比總統的投票率低的是13.61%你看到了嗎不管是山地平地我們的投票率都那麼低欸主委17年來都沒有改變這個問題第一個是秘密投票的問題第二個是投票率低的問題請問要怎麼解決處理我跟委員報告這個就是要維持要保障這個投票秘密在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服\n\n19\n00:06:54,235 --> 00:06:54,636\n主席主席\n\n20\n00:07:11,398 --> 00:07:31,484\n我知道你會這麼回答我主委我在這邊提醒你你們這是非常消極的作為中選會就必須要來處理解決任務這是身為一個公務人員政府應該做的事情好不好接著下來這個問題一個月之內也提你們的這個解決方案給我另外另外另外另外另外你們沒有努力對不起\n\n21\n00:07:34,245 --> 00:07:54,614\n我們看到110年包含主委有6名中選會的委員你們上任的時候針對不在籍投票你們多數是採正面的看法看一下這個都有公報上被記錄的你們是採正面的看法只是策略上你們希望是要主播施行是不是這樣子是的\n\n22\n00:07:55,354 --> 00:08:09,611\n我告訴你我反對逐步施行台灣數位科技的廠商的能耐兩年之內的時間他可以做到全面的來實施所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題來回應立法院的當然我們也會已經提案了\n\n23\n00:08:14,256 --> 00:08:14,817\n一個月之內提出有效的做法\n\n24\n00:08:35,773 --> 00:09:00,350\n提出他的問題點提出他有效的解決方案一個月之內給我提出這兩份報告如果您願意的話我也歡迎您到本辦公室來我們好好做交流不能夠一直以來對於原住民的投票權益還有投票低落的情形還有秘密投票的問題以及我們說選務不落實的問題\n\n25\n00:09:01,170 --> 00:09:01,791\n高金素梅主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2099\t26553\t主委早安1月13號總統副總統跟立法委員的選舉已經落幕了選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關於原住民投票疏失的狀況然而主委您知道嗎是真的那麼順利嗎還是我們中選會你們選擇性的沒有看到為什麼\n29255\t50885\t我在這邊再提幾個我看到的狀況我們族人跟我的澄清有不發還有漏發錯發原名選票的新聞而且是一而再再而三喔第一個狀況族人漏給立法委員選票因此呢我們有總統的有政黨的選票但是他並沒有給他原住民的選票\n51425\t78488\t然後因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問所以他投了前面幾張的選票而原住民最重要他自己的身份的原住民選票並沒有投進去因為沒有給他選票第二個是族人漏給了立委的選票經過現場抗議之後我們的選舉人從底下拿出了他應該要有的選票拿出來你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失\n80469\t102984\t你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況如果有個案的話我們都會進行調查都會請該地的選委會來進行調查按照選務的規定你們上面這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦因為為什麼你知道嗎主委是因為投票所無法錄音錄影然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據申訴\n104705\t123486\t所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題\n125948\t152663\t所以主委你知道嗎在你們工作人員手冊裡面其實你們是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的可是呢在歷次的投票當中還是有族人跟我們求救啊表示你們中選會並沒有真正的在選務上面去落實這個事情啊我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉歧視原住民但是這裡面的確有疏失對吧主委\n153643\t169071\t的確過去曾經有若干的個案被檢舉不只過去這一次我辦公室就收到了非常多的我們如果有這方面的訊息沒有如果確實有你們要怎麼處理對我們也都會要求地方檢查跟檢討怎麼檢討那每次在我們的工作的怎麼檢討請你告訴我落實一下好不好\n177976\t180639\t我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別的要求在相關的這個作業規範那你要怎麼來我現在請問您給你一分鐘的時間你要怎麼樣來落實1地原住民跟3地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的對不對\n193554\t205006\t我們的選務人員也許會有束縛但是第一點我們要特別澄清的他不會有所謂歧視的問題我知道我說我不願意用歧視這兩個字所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實而且他也沒有政黨的問題所以我現在告訴你請你告訴我要怎麼落實我們的這個作業的規範已經定了\n213975\t242574\t加強訓練、宣導：您知不知道在各個地方在各個縣市裡面都有只要是原住民的地區都有原住民局處你知道嗎?你不知道?有原民局處這是法律規定的第二個在我們的教育體系裡面也有原民中心不管是原民局處或是原民中心尤其是原民中心都是我們學校的\n243114\t243234\t謝謝委員的指教\n263933\t289164\t你們已經好多年沒有解決這個問題了我一個月之內幫我請提供我剛剛也提供了你具體落實的方式所以一個月告訴我提供你們應該要改善的措施好不好接著再來就是原住民還有兩個問題沒有辦法解決一直以來你們也不重視第一個就是秘密投票103年的時候立委針對這個事情就質疑了而你們的中選會也說\n291198\t303232\t對於原住民投票隱私權你們向來是高度重視的結果呢 過了17年再上一屆看一下2020年的立委選舉我們全台灣3地原住民的投票所有10557個\n307637\t315646\t然後在這個當中有3個人之內的投票所有4166間 佔了39.5%然後有29間投票率是0的 佔了22.2%你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎 第一個3個人之內的他會被覺得他會被迫亮票\n332043\t348077\t926間是零的因為他不願意去投票因為他也覺得他會被人家看到他投票的取向所以就是說有這麼多我們的山地原住民的族人跟平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而讓他們剝奪了投票的權利你覺得這該不該解決處理\n350539\t362973\t當然這個投票秘密是非常重要的一個選舉的要件那我們也努力的希望能夠消弭這樣子的情況沒有努力啊 到現在還沒有改變啊我們看一下數據2020年總統投票率是74.9%而3D原住民的投票率68.6%比總統低了6.3%\n370521\t374104\t平地原住民投票率62.3%比總統投票率低了12.6%再來看一下這次2024的投票率總統的投票率是71.86%3地原住民投票率是60.32%比總統投票率低了7.54%\n387975\t412534\t平地原住民投票率58.25%比總統的投票率低的是13.61%你看到了嗎不管是山地平地我們的投票率都那麼低欸 主委17年來都沒有改變這個問題第一個是秘密投票的問題第二個是投票率低的問題請問要怎麼解決處理我跟委員報告這個就是要維持要保障這個投票秘密在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服\n414235\t414636\t主席主席\n431398\t451484\t我知道你會這麼回答我主委我在這邊提醒你你們這是非常消極的作為中選會就必須要來處理解決任務這是身為一個公務人員政府應該做的事情好不好接著下來這個問題一個月之內也提你們的這個解決方案給我另外另外另外另外另外你們沒有努力對不起\n454245\t474614\t我們看到110年包含主委有6名中選會的委員你們上任的時候針對不在籍投票你們多數是採正面的看法看一下這個都有公報上被記錄的你們是採正面的看法只是策略上你們希望是要主播施行是不是這樣子是的\n475354\t489611\t我告訴你我反對逐步施行台灣數位科技的廠商的能耐兩年之內的時間他可以做到全面的來實施所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題來回應立法院的當然我們也會已經提案了\n494256\t494817\t一個月之內提出有效的做法\n515773\t540350\t提出他的問題點提出他有效的解決方案一個月之內給我提出這兩份報告如果您願意的話我也歡迎您到本辦公室來我們好好做交流不能夠一直以來對於原住民的投票權益還有投票低落的情形還有秘密投票的問題以及我們說選務不落實的問題\n541170\t541791\t高金素梅主委\n","txt":"主委早安1月13號總統副總統跟立法委員的選舉已經落幕了選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關於原住民投票疏失的狀況然而主委您知道嗎是真的那麼順利嗎還是我們中選會你們選擇性的沒有看到為什麼\n我在這邊再提幾個我看到的狀況我們族人跟我的澄清有不發還有漏發錯發原名選票的新聞而且是一而再再而三喔第一個狀況族人漏給立法委員選票因此呢我們有總統的有政黨的選票但是他並沒有給他原住民的選票\n然後因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問所以他投了前面幾張的選票而原住民最重要他自己的身份的原住民選票並沒有投進去因為沒有給他選票第二個是族人漏給了立委的選票經過現場抗議之後我們的選舉人從底下拿出了他應該要有的選票拿出來你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失\n你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況如果有個案的話我們都會進行調查都會請該地的選委會來進行調查按照選務的規定你們上面這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦因為為什麼你知道嗎主委是因為投票所無法錄音錄影然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據申訴\n所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題\n所以主委你知道嗎在你們工作人員手冊裡面其實你們是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的可是呢在歷次的投票當中還是有族人跟我們求救啊表示你們中選會並沒有真正的在選務上面去落實這個事情啊我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉歧視原住民但是這裡面的確有疏失對吧主委\n的確過去曾經有若干的個案被檢舉不只過去這一次我辦公室就收到了非常多的我們如果有這方面的訊息沒有如果確實有你們要怎麼處理對我們也都會要求地方檢查跟檢討怎麼檢討那每次在我們的工作的怎麼檢討請你告訴我落實一下好不好\n我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別的要求在相關的這個作業規範那你要怎麼來我現在請問您給你一分鐘的時間你要怎麼樣來落實1地原住民跟3地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的對不對\n我們的選務人員也許會有束縛但是第一點我們要特別澄清的他不會有所謂歧視的問題我知道我說我不願意用歧視這兩個字所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實而且他也沒有政黨的問題所以我現在告訴你請你告訴我要怎麼落實我們的這個作業的規範已經定了\n加強訓練、宣導：您知不知道在各個地方在各個縣市裡面都有只要是原住民的地區都有原住民局處你知道嗎?你不知道?有原民局處這是法律規定的第二個在我們的教育體系裡面也有原民中心不管是原民局處或是原民中心尤其是原民中心都是我們學校的\n謝謝委員的指教\n你們已經好多年沒有解決這個問題了我一個月之內幫我請提供我剛剛也提供了你具體落實的方式所以一個月告訴我提供你們應該要改善的措施好不好接著再來就是原住民還有兩個問題沒有辦法解決一直以來你們也不重視第一個就是秘密投票103年的時候立委針對這個事情就質疑了而你們的中選會也說\n對於原住民投票隱私權你們向來是高度重視的結果呢 過了17年再上一屆看一下2020年的立委選舉我們全台灣3地原住民的投票所有10557個\n然後在這個當中有3個人之內的投票所有4166間 佔了39.5%然後有29間投票率是0的 佔了22.2%你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎 第一個3個人之內的他會被覺得他會被迫亮票\n926間是零的因為他不願意去投票因為他也覺得他會被人家看到他投票的取向所以就是說有這麼多我們的山地原住民的族人跟平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而讓他們剝奪了投票的權利你覺得這該不該解決處理\n當然這個投票秘密是非常重要的一個選舉的要件那我們也努力的希望能夠消弭這樣子的情況沒有努力啊 到現在還沒有改變啊我們看一下數據2020年總統投票率是74.9%而3D原住民的投票率68.6%比總統低了6.3%\n平地原住民投票率62.3%比總統投票率低了12.6%再來看一下這次2024的投票率總統的投票率是71.86%3地原住民投票率是60.32%比總統投票率低了7.54%\n平地原住民投票率58.25%比總統的投票率低的是13.61%你看到了嗎不管是山地平地我們的投票率都那麼低欸 主委17年來都沒有改變這個問題第一個是秘密投票的問題第二個是投票率低的問題請問要怎麼解決處理我跟委員報告這個就是要維持要保障這個投票秘密在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服\n主席主席\n我知道你會這麼回答我主委我在這邊提醒你你們這是非常消極的作為中選會就必須要來處理解決任務這是身為一個公務人員政府應該做的事情好不好接著下來這個問題一個月之內也提你們的這個解決方案給我另外另外另外另外另外你們沒有努力對不起\n我們看到110年包含主委有6名中選會的委員你們上任的時候針對不在籍投票你們多數是採正面的看法看一下這個都有公報上被記錄的你們是採正面的看法只是策略上你們希望是要主播施行是不是這樣子是的\n我告訴你我反對逐步施行台灣數位科技的廠商的能耐兩年之內的時間他可以做到全面的來實施所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題來回應立法院的當然我們也會已經提案了\n一個月之內提出有效的做法\n提出他的問題點提出他有效的解決方案一個月之內給我提出這兩份報告如果您願意的話我也歡迎您到本辦公室來我們好好做交流不能夠一直以來對於原住民的投票權益還有投票低落的情形還有秘密投票的問題以及我們說選務不落實的問題\n高金素梅主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.099 --> 00:26.553\n主委早安1月13號總統副總統跟立法委員的選舉已經落幕了選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關於原住民投票疏失的狀況然而主委您知道嗎是真的那麼順利嗎還是我們中選會你們選擇性的沒有看到為什麼\n\n00:29.255 --> 00:50.885\n我在這邊再提幾個我看到的狀況我們族人跟我的澄清有不發還有漏發錯發原名選票的新聞而且是一而再再而三喔第一個狀況族人漏給立法委員選票因此呢我們有總統的有政黨的選票但是他並沒有給他原住民的選票\n\n00:51.425 --> 01:18.488\n然後因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問所以他投了前面幾張的選票而原住民最重要他自己的身份的原住民選票並沒有投進去因為沒有給他選票第二個是族人漏給了立委的選票經過現場抗議之後我們的選舉人從底下拿出了他應該要有的選票拿出來你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失\n\n01:20.469 --> 01:42.984\n你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況如果有個案的話我們都會進行調查都會請該地的選委會來進行調查按照選務的規定你們上面這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦因為為什麼你知道嗎主委是因為投票所無法錄音錄影然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據申訴\n\n01:44.705 --> 02:03.486\n所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題\n\n02:05.948 --> 02:32.663\n所以主委你知道嗎在你們工作人員手冊裡面其實你們是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的可是呢在歷次的投票當中還是有族人跟我們求救啊表示你們中選會並沒有真正的在選務上面去落實這個事情啊我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉歧視原住民但是這裡面的確有疏失對吧主委\n\n02:33.643 --> 02:49.071\n的確過去曾經有若干的個案被檢舉不只過去這一次我辦公室就收到了非常多的我們如果有這方面的訊息沒有如果確實有你們要怎麼處理對我們也都會要求地方檢查跟檢討怎麼檢討那每次在我們的工作的怎麼檢討請你告訴我落實一下好不好\n\n02:57.976 --> 03:00.639\n我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別的要求在相關的這個作業規範那你要怎麼來我現在請問您給你一分鐘的時間你要怎麼樣來落實1地原住民跟3地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的對不對\n\n03:13.554 --> 03:25.006\n我們的選務人員也許會有束縛但是第一點我們要特別澄清的他不會有所謂歧視的問題我知道我說我不願意用歧視這兩個字所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實而且他也沒有政黨的問題所以我現在告訴你請你告訴我要怎麼落實我們的這個作業的規範已經定了\n\n03:33.975 --> 04:02.574\n加強訓練、宣導：您知不知道在各個地方在各個縣市裡面都有只要是原住民的地區都有原住民局處你知道嗎?你不知道?有原民局處這是法律規定的第二個在我們的教育體系裡面也有原民中心不管是原民局處或是原民中心尤其是原民中心都是我們學校的\n\n04:03.114 --> 04:03.234\n謝謝委員的指教\n\n04:23.933 --> 04:49.164\n你們已經好多年沒有解決這個問題了我一個月之內幫我請提供我剛剛也提供了你具體落實的方式所以一個月告訴我提供你們應該要改善的措施好不好接著再來就是原住民還有兩個問題沒有辦法解決一直以來你們也不重視第一個就是秘密投票103年的時候立委針對這個事情就質疑了而你們的中選會也說\n\n04:51.198 --> 05:03.232\n對於原住民投票隱私權你們向來是高度重視的結果呢過了17年再上一屆看一下2020年的立委選舉我們全台灣3地原住民的投票所有10557個\n\n05:07.637 --> 05:15.646\n然後在這個當中有3個人之內的投票所有4166間佔了39.5%然後有29間投票率是0的佔了22.2%你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎第一個3個人之內的他會被覺得他會被迫亮票\n\n05:32.043 --> 05:48.077\n926間是零的因為他不願意去投票因為他也覺得他會被人家看到他投票的取向所以就是說有這麼多我們的山地原住民的族人跟平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而讓他們剝奪了投票的權利你覺得這該不該解決處理\n\n05:50.539 --> 06:02.973\n當然這個投票秘密是非常重要的一個選舉的要件那我們也努力的希望能夠消弭這樣子的情況沒有努力啊到現在還沒有改變啊我們看一下數據2020年總統投票率是74.9%而3D原住民的投票率68.6%比總統低了6.3%\n\n06:10.521 --> 06:14.104\n平地原住民投票率62.3%比總統投票率低了12.6%再來看一下這次2024的投票率總統的投票率是71.86%3地原住民投票率是60.32%比總統投票率低了7.54%\n\n06:27.975 --> 06:52.534\n平地原住民投票率58.25%比總統的投票率低的是13.61%你看到了嗎不管是山地平地我們的投票率都那麼低欸主委17年來都沒有改變這個問題第一個是秘密投票的問題第二個是投票率低的問題請問要怎麼解決處理我跟委員報告這個就是要維持要保障這個投票秘密在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服\n\n06:54.235 --> 06:54.636\n主席主席\n\n07:11.398 --> 07:31.484\n我知道你會這麼回答我主委我在這邊提醒你你們這是非常消極的作為中選會就必須要來處理解決任務這是身為一個公務人員政府應該做的事情好不好接著下來這個問題一個月之內也提你們的這個解決方案給我另外另外另外另外另外你們沒有努力對不起\n\n07:34.245 --> 07:54.614\n我們看到110年包含主委有6名中選會的委員你們上任的時候針對不在籍投票你們多數是採正面的看法看一下這個都有公報上被記錄的你們是採正面的看法只是策略上你們希望是要主播施行是不是這樣子是的\n\n07:55.354 --> 08:09.611\n我告訴你我反對逐步施行台灣數位科技的廠商的能耐兩年之內的時間他可以做到全面的來實施所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題來回應立法院的當然我們也會已經提案了\n\n08:14.256 --> 08:14.817\n一個月之內提出有效的做法\n\n08:35.773 --> 09:00.350\n提出他的問題點提出他有效的解決方案一個月之內給我提出這兩份報告如果您願意的話我也歡迎您到本辦公室來我們好好做交流不能夠一直以來對於原住民的投票權益還有投票低落的情形還有秘密投票的問題以及我們說選務不落實的問題\n\n09:01.170 --> 09:01.791\n高金素梅主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.099,"end":26.553,"text":"主委早安1月13號總統副總統跟立法委員的選舉已經落幕了選舉之後我們辦公室有請教貴委員會你們說這次各地方的選委會沒有提報有關於原住民投票疏失的狀況然而主委您知道嗎是真的那麼順利嗎還是我們中選會你們選擇性的沒有看到為什麼"},{"start":29.255,"end":50.885,"text":"我在這邊再提幾個我看到的狀況我們族人跟我的澄清有不發還有漏發錯發原名選票的新聞而且是一而再再而三喔第一個狀況族人漏給立法委員選票因此呢我們有總統的有政黨的選票但是他並沒有給他原住民的選票"},{"start":51.425,"end":78.488,"text":"然後因為有些族人可能自己也礙於不敢問所以他投了前面幾張的選票而原住民最重要他自己的身份的原住民選票並沒有投進去因為沒有給他選票第二個是族人漏給了立委的選票經過現場抗議之後我們的選舉人從底下拿出了他應該要有的選票拿出來你認為這樣的行為有沒有疏失"},{"start":80.469,"end":102.984,"text":"你們有沒有接到這樣的狀況如果有個案的話我們都會進行調查都會請該地的選委會來進行調查按照選務的規定你們上面這樣的狀況是不會被列入統計的啦因為為什麼你知道嗎主委是因為投票所無法錄音錄影然後族人也沒有辦法用自己的手機錄下證據申訴"},{"start":104.705,"end":123.486,"text":"所以因此不會有你這邊不會有這樣的消息但是呢這種八年來這種狀況比比皆是尤其是這一次我們辦公室接到了現場非常多族人給我們反應然後還需要我們辦公室的助理打電話到地方去跟警察報案趕快來處理這個問題"},{"start":125.948,"end":152.663,"text":"所以主委你知道嗎在你們工作人員手冊裡面其實你們是有把這些狀況列入注意事項的可是呢在歷次的投票當中還是有族人跟我們求救啊表示你們中選會並沒有真正的在選務上面去落實這個事情啊我當然不願意認為大家是歧視原住民的選舉歧視原住民但是這裡面的確有疏失對吧主委"},{"start":153.643,"end":169.071,"text":"的確過去曾經有若干的個案被檢舉不只過去這一次我辦公室就收到了非常多的我們如果有這方面的訊息沒有如果確實有你們要怎麼處理對我們也都會要求地方檢查跟檢討怎麼檢討那每次在我們的工作的怎麼檢討請你告訴我落實一下好不好"},{"start":177.976,"end":180.639,"text":"我們在工作人員講習的部分都有特別的要求在相關的這個作業規範那你要怎麼來我現在請問您給你一分鐘的時間你要怎麼樣來落實1地原住民跟3地原住民選票顏色是不一樣的對不對"},{"start":193.554,"end":205.006,"text":"我們的選務人員也許會有束縛但是第一點我們要特別澄清的他不會有所謂歧視的問題我知道我說我不願意用歧視這兩個字所以你們的選務工作並沒有落實而且他也沒有政黨的問題所以我現在告訴你請你告訴我要怎麼落實我們的這個作業的規範已經定了"},{"start":213.975,"end":242.574,"text":"加強訓練、宣導：您知不知道在各個地方在各個縣市裡面都有只要是原住民的地區都有原住民局處你知道嗎?你不知道?有原民局處這是法律規定的第二個在我們的教育體系裡面也有原民中心不管是原民局處或是原民中心尤其是原民中心都是我們學校的"},{"start":243.114,"end":243.234,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":263.933,"end":289.164,"text":"你們已經好多年沒有解決這個問題了我一個月之內幫我請提供我剛剛也提供了你具體落實的方式所以一個月告訴我提供你們應該要改善的措施好不好接著再來就是原住民還有兩個問題沒有辦法解決一直以來你們也不重視第一個就是秘密投票103年的時候立委針對這個事情就質疑了而你們的中選會也說"},{"start":291.198,"end":303.232,"text":"對於原住民投票隱私權你們向來是高度重視的結果呢 過了17年再上一屆看一下2020年的立委選舉我們全台灣3地原住民的投票所有10557個"},{"start":307.637,"end":315.646,"text":"然後在這個當中有3個人之內的投票所有4166間 佔了39.5%然後有29間投票率是0的 佔了22.2%你知道為什麼會這麼低嗎 第一個3個人之內的他會被覺得他會被迫亮票"},{"start":332.043,"end":348.077,"text":"926間是零的因為他不願意去投票因為他也覺得他會被人家看到他投票的取向所以就是說有這麼多我們的山地原住民的族人跟平地原住民族人因為制度沒有做好而讓他們剝奪了投票的權利你覺得這該不該解決處理"},{"start":350.539,"end":362.973,"text":"當然這個投票秘密是非常重要的一個選舉的要件那我們也努力的希望能夠消弭這樣子的情況沒有努力啊 到現在還沒有改變啊我們看一下數據2020年總統投票率是74.9%而3D原住民的投票率68.6%比總統低了6.3%"},{"start":370.521,"end":374.104,"text":"平地原住民投票率62.3%比總統投票率低了12.6%再來看一下這次2024的投票率總統的投票率是71.86%3地原住民投票率是60.32%比總統投票率低了7.54%"},{"start":387.975,"end":412.534,"text":"平地原住民投票率58.25%比總統的投票率低的是13.61%你看到了嗎不管是山地平地我們的投票率都那麼低欸 主委17年來都沒有改變這個問題第一個是秘密投票的問題第二個是投票率低的問題請問要怎麼解決處理我跟委員報告這個就是要維持要保障這個投票秘密在原住民的部分的確是有一些技術上的問題要克服"},{"start":414.235,"end":414.636,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":431.398,"end":451.484,"text":"我知道你會這麼回答我主委我在這邊提醒你你們這是非常消極的作為中選會就必須要來處理解決任務這是身為一個公務人員政府應該做的事情好不好接著下來這個問題一個月之內也提你們的這個解決方案給我另外另外另外另外另外你們沒有努力對不起"},{"start":454.245,"end":474.614,"text":"我們看到110年包含主委有6名中選會的委員你們上任的時候針對不在籍投票你們多數是採正面的看法看一下這個都有公報上被記錄的你們是採正面的看法只是策略上你們希望是要主播施行是不是這樣子是的"},{"start":475.354,"end":489.611,"text":"我告訴你我反對逐步施行台灣數位科技的廠商的能耐兩年之內的時間他可以做到全面的來實施所以不要再用逐步的腳步來解決這個問題來回應立法院的當然我們也會已經提案了"},{"start":494.256,"end":494.817,"text":"一個月之內提出有效的做法"},{"start":515.773,"end":540.35,"text":"提出他的問題點提出他有效的解決方案一個月之內給我提出這兩份報告如果您願意的話我也歡迎您到本辦公室來我們好好做交流不能夠一直以來對於原住民的投票權益還有投票低落的情形還有秘密投票的問題以及我們說選務不落實的問題"},{"start":541.17,"end":541.791,"text":"高金素梅主委"}]}}}}