{"id":149674,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149674","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300ffc5d642e0fa135d7e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6e168438cab24f24f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:12:05 - 11:19:52","影片長度":"00:07:47","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":467,"end_time":"2024-03-11T11:19:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T11:12:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":849,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時12分）謝謝主席，我們想請陳耀祥主委。"],["主席：好，陳主委請。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：主委你好。今天大家都非常關心中天換照案，根據臺北高等行政法院判NCC敗訴的部分，主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表，剛才在質詢過程當中，你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表，那請問你們訂新的要幹嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們不是新的，是都一樣的評分表，沒有新舊的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們時間的順序，一個舊一個新嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：發生的時間晚的就是新，原本是舊，不然怎麼會他們針對這個……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，都一樣。"],["徐委員巧芯：臺北高等行政法院裡面寫得非常清楚……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，我們評分表都一樣。"],["徐委員巧芯：只是你們到現在都一直不承認這件事情，大家可以看到上面寫的就是……這是臺北高等行政法院的判決，不是我個人的見解。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我想要問的是，是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們所有的評分表都一樣的，所以不是只……"],["徐委員巧芯：我們問的是說用所謂舊的評分表，您瞭解我的意思就好，您瞭解我的意思就好。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道，我們是準用。"],["徐委員巧芯：這個評分表，你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表，一百多個案子都這樣。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們說沒有新舊，前後是……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以其他一百多個案子，他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，基本上來講……"],["徐委員巧芯：當初誰決定要用這份評分表的？在政治責任來說，是陳耀祥主委您本人決定……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個沒有政治的問題，這是法律議題。"],["徐委員巧芯：您使用這個評分表，用原本的配分，是你個人決定的嗎？是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個基本上是我們本會共同討論出來的，題目都一樣……"],["徐委員巧芯：共同？7位委員共同討論？在哪一天的開會做出的決議？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛！評分表都一樣……"],["徐委員巧芯：不，誰決定？因為你們有二種版本，誰決定用這種版本的？是您還是其他的委員？具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：法規都一樣嘛！我們當然在討論的過程裡面來講，換照本來就是評分表都一樣的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：誰決定的？我問的問題是這個。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們就是委員合議制啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：你有決定這件事嗎？你有同意這件事嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是合議制，我們大家共同討論，大家同意啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你的意思是說，7位NCC的委員大家共同決議要採取這份評分表，那請問是在哪一次會議上面大家共同決議的？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們在109年11月18日，第938次委員會議就決定了。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，瞭解了。那我們在開庭的過程當中，我們發現一件事情，我們來看一下開庭的筆錄，為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來閱卷？你們一直到了在法院上面的時候，法官問：「本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照，到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間，原告從來沒有閱過卷嗎？」申請了3次閱卷，NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，看他閱卷的理由是什麼，因為閱卷……"],["徐委員巧芯：對方向你申請閱卷，然後你不同意，後來被法官打臉，有沒有這件事情？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上是看閱卷的範圍是什麼，因為我們在訴訟當中嘛！"],["徐委員巧芯：來！那對方當時跟你申請閱卷的理由是什麼？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：跟委員報告，如果在訴訟當中，我們當然是給法院啊！那基本上閱卷他可以到法院去閱卷啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：所以為什麼法官會很訝異說，人家向你閱卷，你竟然不准，一直到了開庭之後，那才准許人家來閱卷，是不是有這回事？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：卷宗本來我們就給法官啊！難道……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以NCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的，等到到了法院之後法官允許，有沒有這個過程？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：要看他閱什麼，有些東西……"],["徐委員巧芯：有沒有這個過程？後來閱卷了沒有？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：閱卷了沒有？應該後來有閱卷了沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：你也掌握不清楚，你竟然問應該？這個案子社會的關注這麼高，你竟然只是應該……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們上次本來就給法官。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以這個過程我再論述一次，就是在當時中天3次向NCC希望能夠閱卷，而NCC不同意，一直到了法院裡面，法官很驚訝的問：「沒有閱過卷嗎？」然後對方說申請了3次，被告都沒有給閱，所以後來法官才給予閱卷，是不是有這回事？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個個案的申請裡面來講，他本來是提起訴訟，我們當然是先把卷給法官嘛！應該是這樣處理沒有錯啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：如果是這樣，法官就不會這麼驚訝了。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，法官怎麼會有驚訝的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：再來我們問一下，NCC願不願意按照未來法院的見解，讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是合議制委員討論的問題，這不是我個人能夠決定的。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以未來會不會討論這個主題？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：未來要看未來的情況去處理啊！這是委員會合議制……"],["徐委員巧芯：那NCC如果敗訴定讞的話，要怎麼把52台還給對方？你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司，你也不一定會贏的情況下，就草草把52台給別人，有沒有評估方案，若最後NCC敗訴，該怎麼樣還給中天？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：52台並不屬於任何所謂的新聞台，這個是頻道，這是所謂系統業者，這是商業機制的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是嘛！他就是認為你不應該撤他的照，那你必須要把52台還給他的過程當中，NCC該怎麼處理？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：他沒有52台的所有權啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：有沒有評估？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個本來就是我們……"],["徐委員巧芯：目前有沒有評估？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有評估的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：如果官司輸掉的話，要怎麼處理？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：輸不輸掉那是到時候最後決定的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以目前NCC完全沒有評估，如果本案定讞的話要如何處理這件事情，是因為你已經要去學校任教了，所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：行政程序有沒有輸、贏，有各種的方法……"],["徐委員巧芯：這是一種非常不負責任的想法……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有不負責任的問題，這是依法行政去處理的問題啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你，還用表決的方式通過……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們表示遺憾嘛！這是一個政治干預個案的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：這是你NCC根本就是政治的手伸進來，我最後問一個問題……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：政治干預個案嘛！"],["徐委員巧芯：請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告？你們有沒有曾經讓羅世宏在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課，建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的作法去做？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是新聞自律的問題，還有倫理委員會的問題，這是內部的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26號請羅世宏到東森新聞去上課，建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上來講，新聞他們要如何自律，都是新聞自己的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：2022年1月26號，羅世宏有沒有到東森去上課？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不曉得委員……"],["徐委員巧芯：為什麼要迴避？主席，為什麼他要迴避我們的問題？我就只是問他……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒有迴避問題，我不曉得羅世宏教授有沒有去上課啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：那是NCC請他去的，有沒有這個會議？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們NCC不會請教授去幫誰上課，沒有這回事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂新聞的多元，所以讓羅世宏當天去東森上課？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有……"],["徐委員巧芯：這是我們有非常確定的，我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們，有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告，一年請媒體寫幾次報告？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，在新聞自由裡面來講，我們是提供他自律的機會。"],["徐委員巧芯：最後一個問題，因為時間的關係，請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視臺跟廣播，請他們寫報告給NCC，統計數據是多少次？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：視個案來決定嘛！"],["徐委員巧芯：一年有幾件？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼？"],["徐委員巧芯：就是你們發函，請他寫報告回復你們，一年有幾件？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這有時候我們要統計數字，這有時候是廣電……"],["徐委員巧芯：你們平常沒有統計是嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為這個部分來講的話，本來就不在我們裁罰……這不是屬於裁罰的部分。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是屬於裁罰的部分，我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況，不知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個是溝通的問題嘛！"],["徐委員巧芯：溝通？我想問你們的是件數？我們想要瞭解的是件數，到底一年有多少件這樣子案子的情況？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個是因為公平原則，我們……"],["徐委員巧芯：請問可不可以提供？請問會後能不能夠提供？這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，可以。"],["徐委員巧芯：每年所發函給媒體，請他回復報告的次數。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員有需求，我們會去統計。"],["徐委員巧芯：麻煩會後提供給我，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝徐巧芯委員的發言。","下一位請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","李昆澤","黃健豪","許智傑","林沛祥","翁曉玲","葉元之","邱若華","林俊憲","傅崐萁","徐富癸","徐巧芯","羅智強","蔡其昌","林德福","魯明哲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","陳俊宇","陳培瑜",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\"start\": 329.1, \"end\": 329.12, \"score\": 0.042}]}, {\"start\": 343.231, \"end\": 352.573, \"text\": \"你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 343.231, \"end\": 343.291, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 343.291, \"end\": 343.311, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 343.311, \"end\": 343.411, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 343.411, \"end\": 343.491, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 343.491, \"end\": 343.611, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 343.611, \"end\": 343.751, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 343.751, \"end\": 343.771, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 343.771, \"end\": 343.871, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 343.871, \"end\": 343.891, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 343.891, \"end\": 343.931, \"score\": 0.416}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 343.931, \"end\": 344.051, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 344.051, \"end\": 344.071, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"森\", \"start\": 344.071, \"end\": 344.191, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 344.191, \"end\": 344.291, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 344.291, \"end\": 344.351, \"score\": 0.483}, {\"word\": \"課\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 344.351, \"end\": 344.471, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"森\", \"start\": 344.471, \"end\": 344.591, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 344.591, \"end\": 344.691, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 344.691, \"end\": 344.811, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 344.811, \"end\": 344.951, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 344.951, \"end\": 345.212, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 345.212, \"end\": 345.312, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 345.312, \"end\": 345.332, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 345.332, \"end\": 345.352, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 345.352, \"end\": 345.472, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 345.472, \"end\": 345.652, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 345.652, \"end\": 345.672, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 345.672, \"end\": 345.912, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 345.912, \"end\": 346.032, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 346.032, \"end\": 346.052, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 346.052, \"end\": 346.072, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 346.072, \"end\": 346.112, \"score\": 0.406}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 346.112, \"end\": 346.312, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 346.312, \"end\": 346.492, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 346.492, \"end\": 346.512, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 346.512, \"end\": 346.652, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 346.652, \"end\": 346.792, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 346.792, \"end\": 346.812, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 346.812, \"end\": 346.952, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 346.952, \"end\": 347.312, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 347.312, \"end\": 347.332, \"score\": 0.364}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 347.332, \"end\": 347.632, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, 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00:00:35,022\n呃謝謝主席我們想請陳耀祥主委好陳主委請你好主委你好今天大家都非常關心這個中天換照案喔那根據呢臺北高等行政法院判案CC敗訴的部分主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表剛才在質詢過程當中呢你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表那請問你們定心得要幹嘛\n\n2\n00:00:35,362 --> 00:00:39,884\n臺北高等行政法院的判決不是我個人的見解所以我想要問的是是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的\n\n3\n00:01:01,896 --> 00:01:21,908\n所以說我們問的是說用所謂的舊的評分表您了解我的意思就好您了解我的意思就好這個評分表你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表一百多個案子都這樣所以其他一百多個案子他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧\n\n4\n00:01:25,109 --> 00:01:49,982\n當初誰決定要用這份評分表的在政治責任來說是陳耀祥主委您本人決定您使用這個評分表用原本的配分是你個人決定的嗎是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的這個基本上就是我們本會都共同討論所以這評分表都一樣七位委員共同討論在哪一天的開會做出的決議我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛\n\n5\n00:01:51,663 --> 00:01:58,808\n誰決定?因為你們有兩種版本,誰決定用這種版本的?是您還是其他的委員?具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的?誰決定的?我問的問題是這個\n\n6\n00:02:07,114 --> 00:02:09,576\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n7\n00:02:29,110 --> 00:02:57,281\n了解了那我們在開庭的過程當中我們發現一件事情來我們來看一下開庭的筆錄為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來越卷啊你們一直到了在法院上面的時候來法官問本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間原告從來沒有越過卷嗎申請了三次越卷NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼\n\n8\n00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,201\n所以為什麼法官會很訝異說人家向你約券你竟然不准一直到了開庭之後那才\n\n9\n00:03:25,131 --> 00:03:28,295\n所以RCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的等到到了法院之後法官允許有沒有這個過程後來越卷了沒有\n\n10\n00:03:41,631 --> 00:04:05,132\n你也掌握不清楚你竟然問應該這個案子社會的關注這麼高你竟然只是應該所以這個過程我再論述一次就是在當時NCC三次中天三次向NCC希望能夠越卷而NCC不同意一直到了法院裡面法官很驚訝的問沒有越過卷嗎然後呢對方說申請了三次被告都沒有給越\n\n11\n00:04:06,113 --> 00:04:31,273\n那所以這個後來法官才給予月券是不是有這回事這個個案的申請裡面來講他本來就提起輸送他月券我們當然是先把券給法官嘛應該是這樣處理沒有錯如果是這樣法官就不會這麼驚訝了再來我們問一下如果按照這個NCC院不願意按照未來法院的見解讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照\n\n12\n00:04:32,134 --> 00:04:53,460\n這是合意制委員討論的問題這不是我個人能夠決定的所以未來會不會討論這個主題如果未來看未來的情況去處理那NCC如果敗訴定業的話要怎麼把52台還給對方你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司你也不一定會贏的情況下就草草把52台給別人有沒有評估方案若最後NCC敗訴今天該怎麼要還給\n\n13\n00:04:56,081 --> 00:04:56,421\n徐巧芯\n\n14\n00:05:14,309 --> 00:05:29,120\n所以目前NCC完全沒有評估如果本案定议宴的話要如何處理這件事情是因為你已經要去學校任教了所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎這是一種非常不負責任的想法所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你還用表決的方式通過這個是這是你NCC根本就是政治的首勝藥最後問一個問題請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告\n\n15\n00:05:43,231 --> 00:05:52,573\n你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?\n\n16\n00:06:08,257 --> 00:06:14,180\n二零二月一月二十六號羅世鴻有沒有到東森去上課為什麼要迴避主席為什麼他要迴避我們的問題我就只是問他那是NCC請他去的有沒有這個會議你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂的新聞的多元所以讓羅世鴻去當天去東森上課\n\n17\n00:06:35,249 --> 00:06:46,117\n這是我們有非常確定的我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告一年請媒體寫幾次報告請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視台跟廣播請他們寫報告給NCC我們統計數據是多少次一年有幾件\n\n18\n00:07:01,428 --> 00:07:20,577\n沒有,那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼就是你們發函請他寫報告回覆你們一年要幾件這個有時候我們要統計數字這有時候是廣電自行會議你們平常沒有統計是嗎因為這個部分來講的話本來就不在我們裁判這不是屬於裁判的部分不是屬於裁判的部分我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況不知道嗎這個是溝通的問題嘛對溝通我想問你們是件數\n\n19\n00:07:24,761 --> 00:07:32,943\n我們想要了解的是建樹到底一年有多少件這樣子的案子的情況請問可不可以提供請問會後能不能夠提供這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來每年所發函給媒體請他回覆報告的資料有麻煩會後提供給我謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7025\t35022\t呃謝謝主席我們想請陳耀祥主委好陳主委請你好主委你好今天大家都非常關心這個中天換照案喔那根據呢臺北高等行政法院判案CC敗訴的部分主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表剛才在質詢過程當中呢你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表那請問你們定心得要幹嘛\n35362\t39884\t臺北高等行政法院的判決不是我個人的見解所以我想要問的是是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的\n61896\t81908\t所以說我們問的是說用所謂的舊的評分表您了解我的意思就好您了解我的意思就好這個評分表你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表一百多個案子都這樣所以其他一百多個案子他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧\n85109\t109982\t當初誰決定要用這份評分表的在政治責任來說是陳耀祥主委您本人決定您使用這個評分表用原本的配分是你個人決定的嗎是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的這個基本上就是我們本會都共同討論所以這評分表都一樣七位委員共同討論在哪一天的開會做出的決議我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛\n111663\t118808\t誰決定?因為你們有兩種版本,誰決定用這種版本的?是您還是其他的委員?具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的?誰決定的?我問的問題是這個\n127114\t129576\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n149110\t177281\t了解了那我們在開庭的過程當中我們發現一件事情來我們來看一下開庭的筆錄為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來越卷啊你們一直到了在法院上面的時候來法官問本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間原告從來沒有越過卷嗎申請了三次越卷NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼\n178080\t181201\t所以為什麼法官會很訝異說人家向你約券你竟然不准一直到了開庭之後那才\n205131\t208295\t所以RCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的等到到了法院之後法官允許有沒有這個過程後來越卷了沒有\n221631\t245132\t你也掌握不清楚你竟然問應該這個案子社會的關注這麼高你竟然只是應該所以這個過程我再論述一次就是在當時NCC三次中天三次向NCC希望能夠越卷而NCC不同意一直到了法院裡面法官很驚訝的問沒有越過卷嗎然後呢對方說申請了三次被告都沒有給越\n246113\t271273\t那所以這個後來法官才給予月券是不是有這回事這個個案的申請裡面來講他本來就提起輸送他月券我們當然是先把券給法官嘛應該是這樣處理沒有錯如果是這樣法官就不會這麼驚訝了再來我們問一下如果按照這個NCC院不願意按照未來法院的見解讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照\n272134\t293460\t這是合意制委員討論的問題這不是我個人能夠決定的所以未來會不會討論這個主題如果未來看未來的情況去處理那NCC如果敗訴定業的話要怎麼把52台還給對方你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司你也不一定會贏的情況下就草草把52台給別人有沒有評估方案若最後NCC敗訴今天該怎麼要還給\n296081\t296421\t徐巧芯\n314309\t329120\t所以目前NCC完全沒有評估如果本案定议宴的話要如何處理這件事情是因為你已經要去學校任教了所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎這是一種非常不負責任的想法所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你還用表決的方式通過這個是這是你NCC根本就是政治的首勝藥最後問一個問題請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告\n343231\t352573\t你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?\n368257\t374180\t二零二月一月二十六號羅世鴻有沒有到東森去上課為什麼要迴避主席為什麼他要迴避我們的問題我就只是問他那是NCC請他去的有沒有這個會議你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂的新聞的多元所以讓羅世鴻去當天去東森上課\n395249\t406117\t這是我們有非常確定的我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告一年請媒體寫幾次報告請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視台跟廣播請他們寫報告給NCC我們統計數據是多少次一年有幾件\n421428\t440577\t沒有,那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼就是你們發函請他寫報告回覆你們一年要幾件這個有時候我們要統計數字這有時候是廣電自行會議你們平常沒有統計是嗎因為這個部分來講的話本來就不在我們裁判這不是屬於裁判的部分不是屬於裁判的部分我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況不知道嗎這個是溝通的問題嘛對溝通我想問你們是件數\n444761\t452943\t我們想要了解的是建樹到底一年有多少件這樣子的案子的情況請問可不可以提供請問會後能不能夠提供這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來每年所發函給媒體請他回覆報告的資料有麻煩會後提供給我謝謝\n","txt":"呃謝謝主席我們想請陳耀祥主委好陳主委請你好主委你好今天大家都非常關心這個中天換照案喔那根據呢臺北高等行政法院判案CC敗訴的部分主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表剛才在質詢過程當中呢你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表那請問你們定心得要幹嘛\n臺北高等行政法院的判決不是我個人的見解所以我想要問的是是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的\n所以說我們問的是說用所謂的舊的評分表您了解我的意思就好您了解我的意思就好這個評分表你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表一百多個案子都這樣所以其他一百多個案子他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧\n當初誰決定要用這份評分表的在政治責任來說是陳耀祥主委您本人決定您使用這個評分表用原本的配分是你個人決定的嗎是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的這個基本上就是我們本會都共同討論所以這評分表都一樣七位委員共同討論在哪一天的開會做出的決議我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛\n誰決定?因為你們有兩種版本,誰決定用這種版本的?是您還是其他的委員?具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的?誰決定的?我問的問題是這個\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n了解了那我們在開庭的過程當中我們發現一件事情來我們來看一下開庭的筆錄為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來越卷啊你們一直到了在法院上面的時候來法官問本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間原告從來沒有越過卷嗎申請了三次越卷NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼\n所以為什麼法官會很訝異說人家向你約券你竟然不准一直到了開庭之後那才\n所以RCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的等到到了法院之後法官允許有沒有這個過程後來越卷了沒有\n你也掌握不清楚你竟然問應該這個案子社會的關注這麼高你竟然只是應該所以這個過程我再論述一次就是在當時NCC三次中天三次向NCC希望能夠越卷而NCC不同意一直到了法院裡面法官很驚訝的問沒有越過卷嗎然後呢對方說申請了三次被告都沒有給越\n那所以這個後來法官才給予月券是不是有這回事這個個案的申請裡面來講他本來就提起輸送他月券我們當然是先把券給法官嘛應該是這樣處理沒有錯如果是這樣法官就不會這麼驚訝了再來我們問一下如果按照這個NCC院不願意按照未來法院的見解讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照\n這是合意制委員討論的問題這不是我個人能夠決定的所以未來會不會討論這個主題如果未來看未來的情況去處理那NCC如果敗訴定業的話要怎麼把52台還給對方你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司你也不一定會贏的情況下就草草把52台給別人有沒有評估方案若最後NCC敗訴今天該怎麼要還給\n徐巧芯\n所以目前NCC完全沒有評估如果本案定议宴的話要如何處理這件事情是因為你已經要去學校任教了所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎這是一種非常不負責任的想法所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你還用表決的方式通過這個是這是你NCC根本就是政治的首勝藥最後問一個問題請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告\n你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?\n二零二月一月二十六號羅世鴻有沒有到東森去上課為什麼要迴避主席為什麼他要迴避我們的問題我就只是問他那是NCC請他去的有沒有這個會議你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂的新聞的多元所以讓羅世鴻去當天去東森上課\n這是我們有非常確定的我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告一年請媒體寫幾次報告請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視台跟廣播請他們寫報告給NCC我們統計數據是多少次一年有幾件\n沒有,那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼就是你們發函請他寫報告回覆你們一年要幾件這個有時候我們要統計數字這有時候是廣電自行會議你們平常沒有統計是嗎因為這個部分來講的話本來就不在我們裁判這不是屬於裁判的部分不是屬於裁判的部分我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況不知道嗎這個是溝通的問題嘛對溝通我想問你們是件數\n我們想要了解的是建樹到底一年有多少件這樣子的案子的情況請問可不可以提供請問會後能不能夠提供這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來每年所發函給媒體請他回覆報告的資料有麻煩會後提供給我謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.025 --> 00:35.022\n呃謝謝主席我們想請陳耀祥主委好陳主委請你好主委你好今天大家都非常關心這個中天換照案喔那根據呢臺北高等行政法院判案CC敗訴的部分主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表剛才在質詢過程當中呢你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表那請問你們定心得要幹嘛\n\n00:35.362 --> 00:39.884\n臺北高等行政法院的判決不是我個人的見解所以我想要問的是是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的\n\n01:01.896 --> 01:21.908\n所以說我們問的是說用所謂的舊的評分表您了解我的意思就好您了解我的意思就好這個評分表你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表一百多個案子都這樣所以其他一百多個案子他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧\n\n01:25.109 --> 01:49.982\n當初誰決定要用這份評分表的在政治責任來說是陳耀祥主委您本人決定您使用這個評分表用原本的配分是你個人決定的嗎是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的這個基本上就是我們本會都共同討論所以這評分表都一樣七位委員共同討論在哪一天的開會做出的決議我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛\n\n01:51.663 --> 01:58.808\n誰決定?因為你們有兩種版本,誰決定用這種版本的?是您還是其他的委員?具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的?誰決定的?我問的問題是這個\n\n02:07.114 --> 02:09.576\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n02:29.110 --> 02:57.281\n了解了那我們在開庭的過程當中我們發現一件事情來我們來看一下開庭的筆錄為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來越卷啊你們一直到了在法院上面的時候來法官問本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間原告從來沒有越過卷嗎申請了三次越卷NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼\n\n02:58.080 --> 03:01.201\n所以為什麼法官會很訝異說人家向你約券你竟然不准一直到了開庭之後那才\n\n03:25.131 --> 03:28.295\n所以RCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的等到到了法院之後法官允許有沒有這個過程後來越卷了沒有\n\n03:41.631 --> 04:05.132\n你也掌握不清楚你竟然問應該這個案子社會的關注這麼高你竟然只是應該所以這個過程我再論述一次就是在當時NCC三次中天三次向NCC希望能夠越卷而NCC不同意一直到了法院裡面法官很驚訝的問沒有越過卷嗎然後呢對方說申請了三次被告都沒有給越\n\n04:06.113 --> 04:31.273\n那所以這個後來法官才給予月券是不是有這回事這個個案的申請裡面來講他本來就提起輸送他月券我們當然是先把券給法官嘛應該是這樣處理沒有錯如果是這樣法官就不會這麼驚訝了再來我們問一下如果按照這個NCC院不願意按照未來法院的見解讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照\n\n04:32.134 --> 04:53.460\n這是合意制委員討論的問題這不是我個人能夠決定的所以未來會不會討論這個主題如果未來看未來的情況去處理那NCC如果敗訴定業的話要怎麼把52台還給對方你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司你也不一定會贏的情況下就草草把52台給別人有沒有評估方案若最後NCC敗訴今天該怎麼要還給\n\n04:56.081 --> 04:56.421\n徐巧芯\n\n05:14.309 --> 05:29.120\n所以目前NCC完全沒有評估如果本案定议宴的話要如何處理這件事情是因為你已經要去學校任教了所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎這是一種非常不負責任的想法所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你還用表決的方式通過這個是這是你NCC根本就是政治的首勝藥最後問一個問題請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告\n\n05:43.231 --> 05:52.573\n你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?\n\n06:08.257 --> 06:14.180\n二零二月一月二十六號羅世鴻有沒有到東森去上課為什麼要迴避主席為什麼他要迴避我們的問題我就只是問他那是NCC請他去的有沒有這個會議你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂的新聞的多元所以讓羅世鴻去當天去東森上課\n\n06:35.249 --> 06:46.117\n這是我們有非常確定的我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告一年請媒體寫幾次報告請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視台跟廣播請他們寫報告給NCC我們統計數據是多少次一年有幾件\n\n07:01.428 --> 07:20.577\n沒有,那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼就是你們發函請他寫報告回覆你們一年要幾件這個有時候我們要統計數字這有時候是廣電自行會議你們平常沒有統計是嗎因為這個部分來講的話本來就不在我們裁判這不是屬於裁判的部分不是屬於裁判的部分我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況不知道嗎這個是溝通的問題嘛對溝通我想問你們是件數\n\n07:24.761 --> 07:32.943\n我們想要了解的是建樹到底一年有多少件這樣子的案子的情況請問可不可以提供請問會後能不能夠提供這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來每年所發函給媒體請他回覆報告的資料有麻煩會後提供給我謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.025,"end":35.022,"text":"呃謝謝主席我們想請陳耀祥主委好陳主委請你好主委你好今天大家都非常關心這個中天換照案喔那根據呢臺北高等行政法院判案CC敗訴的部分主要原因是因為你們當初沒有準用2018年的評分表剛才在質詢過程當中呢你們說有一百多個案子都是用舊的評分表那請問你們定心得要幹嘛"},{"start":35.362,"end":39.884,"text":"臺北高等行政法院的判決不是我個人的見解所以我想要問的是是不是有一百多個案子都是這樣子的"},{"start":61.896,"end":81.908,"text":"所以說我們問的是說用所謂的舊的評分表您了解我的意思就好您了解我的意思就好這個評分表你們當時所使用去評中天的這個評分表一百多個案子都這樣所以其他一百多個案子他們未來也有可能對你們展開行政訴訟對吧"},{"start":85.109,"end":109.982,"text":"當初誰決定要用這份評分表的在政治責任來說是陳耀祥主委您本人決定您使用這個評分表用原本的配分是你個人決定的嗎是哪一位委員決定要這麼做的這個基本上就是我們本會都共同討論所以這評分表都一樣七位委員共同討論在哪一天的開會做出的決議我們本來就有這個內部的評分表嘛"},{"start":111.663,"end":118.808,"text":"誰決定?因為你們有兩種版本,誰決定用這種版本的?是您還是其他的委員?具體討論的時間是什麼時候決定的?誰決定的?我問的問題是這個"},{"start":127.114,"end":129.576,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":149.11,"end":177.281,"text":"了解了那我們在開庭的過程當中我們發現一件事情來我們來看一下開庭的筆錄為什麼NCC要阻擋中天來越卷啊你們一直到了在法院上面的時候來法官問本件從原告109年6月8號申請換照到109年11月18號委員會決議這段期間原告從來沒有越過卷嗎申請了三次越卷NCC當時不同意的理由是什麼"},{"start":178.08,"end":181.201,"text":"所以為什麼法官會很訝異說人家向你約券你竟然不准一直到了開庭之後那才"},{"start":205.131,"end":208.295,"text":"所以RCC當中天來申請的時候是拒絕的等到到了法院之後法官允許有沒有這個過程後來越卷了沒有"},{"start":221.631,"end":245.132,"text":"你也掌握不清楚你竟然問應該這個案子社會的關注這麼高你竟然只是應該所以這個過程我再論述一次就是在當時NCC三次中天三次向NCC希望能夠越卷而NCC不同意一直到了法院裡面法官很驚訝的問沒有越過卷嗎然後呢對方說申請了三次被告都沒有給越"},{"start":246.113,"end":271.273,"text":"那所以這個後來法官才給予月券是不是有這回事這個個案的申請裡面來講他本來就提起輸送他月券我們當然是先把券給法官嘛應該是這樣處理沒有錯如果是這樣法官就不會這麼驚訝了再來我們問一下如果按照這個NCC院不願意按照未來法院的見解讓新任的委員以2018年的評分表重新評斷中天是否能夠換照"},{"start":272.134,"end":293.46,"text":"這是合意制委員討論的問題這不是我個人能夠決定的所以未來會不會討論這個主題如果未來看未來的情況去處理那NCC如果敗訴定業的話要怎麼把52台還給對方你們怎麼知道明知對方還在跟你打官司你也不一定會贏的情況下就草草把52台給別人有沒有評估方案若最後NCC敗訴今天該怎麼要還給"},{"start":296.081,"end":296.421,"text":"徐巧芯"},{"start":314.309,"end":329.12,"text":"所以目前NCC完全沒有評估如果本案定议宴的話要如何處理這件事情是因為你已經要去學校任教了所以你就不想要再管接下來的人要怎麼做了嗎這是一種非常不負責任的想法所以今天才會有這麼多的委員站出來譴責你還用表決的方式通過這個是這是你NCC根本就是政治的首勝藥最後問一個問題請問你們有沒有常常叫媒體去寫報告"},{"start":343.231,"end":352.573,"text":"你們有沒有曾經在讓羅世鴻在2022年的1月26號到東森電視台上課建議東森的政論節目要參考三立的做法去做?我問你的是你們有沒有在2022年的1月26日請羅世鴻到東森新聞去上課建議東森新聞的政論節目要參考三立去做?"},{"start":368.257,"end":374.18,"text":"二零二月一月二十六號羅世鴻有沒有到東森去上課為什麼要迴避主席為什麼他要迴避我們的問題我就只是問他那是NCC請他去的有沒有這個會議你們有沒有請他說要維持所謂的新聞的多元所以讓羅世鴻去當天去東森上課"},{"start":395.249,"end":406.117,"text":"這是我們有非常確定的我會把相關的資訊再提供給你們有很多的媒體都在抱怨你們叫他寫報告一年請媒體寫幾次報告請問你們一年發函多少次給包含電視台跟廣播請他們寫報告給NCC我們統計數據是多少次一年有幾件"},{"start":421.428,"end":440.577,"text":"沒有,那就看委員所謂報告的定義是什麼就是你們發函請他寫報告回覆你們一年要幾件這個有時候我們要統計數字這有時候是廣電自行會議你們平常沒有統計是嗎因為這個部分來講的話本來就不在我們裁判這不是屬於裁判的部分不是屬於裁判的部分我問的是你們一年有幾件這樣子的情況不知道嗎這個是溝通的問題嘛對溝通我想問你們是件數"},{"start":444.761,"end":452.943,"text":"我們想要了解的是建樹到底一年有多少件這樣子的案子的情況請問可不可以提供請問會後能不能夠提供這幾年來陳耀祥您擔任主委以來每年所發函給媒體請他回覆報告的資料有麻煩會後提供給我謝謝"}]}}}}