{"id":149676,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149676","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf430041a661e6db04c2d4aea18303c979697ef8ba9b0039caa7a658fff7e47292a95a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:10:33 - 11:23:32","影片長度":"00:12:59","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-5"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":779,"end_time":"2024-03-11T11:23:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T11:10:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":910,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時10分）謝謝主席，有請李俊俋秘書長。"],["主席：有請李秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：早安，大家辛苦了。我剛剛聆聽了前一位委員的質詢，真是每天驚句不斷，驚嚇人的驚，翁委員上任到現在，她除了拋出立法院有對於行政院、行政官員的任免權之外，剛剛我又赫然聆聽了她的質詢，她說她想要訂定，也要求監察院是不是針對監察委員的適任與否要來訂定監察委員行為法。翁委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊，她顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大，我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言，也逾越了各個憲政機關權力分立的原則。秘書長，你可不可以再說一下，你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行為法？其實我先說啦，應當請國民黨的委員就立法委員行為法好好去思考，如何精進立法委員的問政專業、問政水平，自己從自己問政的課責、究責以及對自己的強化、提升素質開始。來，秘書長，給你一點時間。"],["李秘書長俊俋：吳委員，這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評，我們都沒有意見，也沒有評論，我就我的職權範圍來報告，我今天是來做立法報告，這是我們職權行使法第七十一條的規定，我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫，至於其他相關的，有關行政院的缺失或是什麼，我只能告訴大家這個案子我們有沒有在查，其他部分我不便表示意見。"],["吳委員思瑤：瞭解，收到，謝謝秘書長的說明。我想我們公民社會非常成熟的公民，在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷，一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張，孰可忍孰不可忍，我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律。","進入我今天的主題，我有兩個主題，我很快速的跟您分享，一個就是我們如何在監察院人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化，另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法，這也畢竟跟人權事項相關。我們依據巴黎原則，我們能夠成立一個獨立的人權機構，而且它具備組織、預算、人事跟運作上的獨立，有明確的管轄權跟充分的權力，更重要的是為人民所近用，也就是我說的人權主流化應當無所不在，所以監察院2020年成立了人權會，而行政院也在2022年提出臺灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫，這都是臺灣的人權邁大步，監察院的同仁、人權會，大家辛苦了。","早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢，針對監察法的修正案，確實當初立法院在審議人權會組織法的時候，作成了決議，希望是以人權專章在監察法入法而不是採行一個作用法，用一個職權行使法的方式。因為現在就是你們即將提出監察法人權專章的關鍵時刻，我要分享我的觀點，如何讓人權主流化能夠灌注在你未來提出的法案。","我想臺灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的，從性別主流化到族群主流化，到文化主流化，我們從組織面都有對應的機構，在法制面都有相關的法規，乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關議題主流化，我想這是一個對的思維，所以我們在性別、在族群，還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭，我們成立了行政院的文化會報，我們讓部部都是文化部，甚至我們也千辛萬苦推出、回應了文化界二、三十年來的倡議，成立了文化基本法，成為我們文化的憲法。本席目前也在各個部會的施政推動青年主流化，進一步要推動青年基本法，目前行政院也在研議當中。","那就是我個人拋出來的意見，不代表這一定是可行的，但我想就教於秘書長，如果為了落實人權主流化，因為我們現在同步在進行監察法的人權專章，如果是用一個人權基本法，有一個憲法高效力的基本法，您認為可行嗎？這只是意見分享。"],["李秘書長俊俋：有兩個部分，對於吳委員所主張議題主流化的部分，我完全贊成，我們應該更積極地來推動各種不同相關議題的主流化。至於是不是一定要定一個人權基本法這件事情，因為憲法裡面最重要的兩個部分，一個是人權的基本保障，一個是國家機關的組成，所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋。如果說人權規範不足的話，其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法，只是現在的修憲門檻太高。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我瞭解，謝謝秘書長的意見分享。我要再澄清，我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法，我只是在拋出這樣的議題，我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會。如何落實人權主流化，非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章，如何能夠在院際之間、在部會之間，能夠真的做到進步人權的思維。"],["李秘書長俊俋：人權專章最重要的是希望讓我們人權會的職權行使有一個依據。"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們希望在這個會期想辦法把它送過來。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我未來會支持，我們進一步再來探究。","人權政策到底誰是領頭羊？這也是我對於人權會組織一直存有很大的疑惑。人權會到底是上位機關，它是整合的機構，還是它本身也承擔了部分的執行？其實人權會1年好像有一億三左右的預算……"],["李秘書長俊俋：一億二。"],["吳委員思瑤：一億二左右。我們現在散列在院際之間，行政院的人權轉型正義處，還有各部會都在做人權工作；總統府有原轉會；中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究，包括轉型正義研究，本席一直在督促他們強化；國史館也在做人權的很多策展、文件的研究；當然，司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的文官跟司法人員，也承擔了相當的責任。但行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚，國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議、報告意見。你們做出來，就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實。所以如果這樣解讀，你們是上位機關囉？"],["李秘書長俊俋：依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定，我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導，也就是說如何讓它推動；實際的執行面，應該是在行政院的人權處。至於這樣的設計到底合不合適，這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過，因為最大的原則是要成立一個……"],["吳委員思瑤：獨立的機構。"],["李秘書長俊俋：獨立於行政機關之外的獨立機關。目前來講，我們現在朝這個方向，所以當時就決定把它放在監察院，是這樣來的。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以這個部分，我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點，至少我、本席、本人此時此刻站在這裡，我雖然是司法及法制委員會的新生，但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮，到底能不能夠到位，我覺得還是可以思考。沒有問題，我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究，但無論如何，監督的成效要出來。","確實在你們組織法裡頭，不外乎是監督、協助、提建議等等這樣子的一個部分。","因為時間有限，我其實這一part是要跟您講，我長期在教育部門、文化部門還有中研院的監督，我過去在教文委員會，我認為人權……這有國際經驗，德國跟波蘭我就不說了。其實，就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭，我擴大了面向，把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外，本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣，所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享。","我認為、我也提醒監察院對於文化部的不義遺址立法，文化遺產體驗教育的深化，教育部門的人權教育向下扎根，乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更focus。我目前看到的，這相對是還沒有做到非常深入好嗎？我提出我對這個部分的觀察，分享給我們監察院的同仁。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝吳委員的建議，我跟吳委員報告一下，我們的中程計畫在去年7月已經出來了。這個部分教育部的國教院已經跟我們合作，未來我們希望這個部分能夠更精進，然後也希望我們能夠確實做好監督的工作。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝您的回答，我會持續來follow這個部分。","最後再給我1分鐘時間就好了。我們需要一部反歧視法，因為要讓臺灣在國際所簽訂的這麼多人權條約國內法化，臺灣需要一部反歧視法，也是落實聯合國SDGs項目當中的減少不平等，人與人之間的不平等要被消弭，國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破。臺灣需要一部反歧視法，更是因為臺灣這段時間，從性別歧視、職業歧視、身障歧視、族群歧視、相關的歧視性言論一再地發生，包括對本席自己所造成的性別歧視的發言。","現在的反歧視法，散列在七部法規，法律欠缺法一致性，所以我借鏡了國際的經驗，加拿大、德國、英國、瑞典，乃至於鄰近國家日本，都有一個專法在進行反歧視法，或者稱之為平等法的一個單一專法，而且它的位階是高的。","最後我拋出這樣的問題，也是我很好奇想提到，因為你們的組織法當中，對於跟人權相關的，不管是修憲、立法、修法都有你們的職責。現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法，內政部在做，我那天也質詢了我們的法務部長，法務部正在研議以一個專法來全方位地進行反歧視法，而法務部平等法裡頭、組織裡頭，監督機關就是國家人權委員會，所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人，但在我心目中，李俊俋就是最棒的法律專家。"],["李秘書長俊俋：不敢。"],["吳委員思瑤：對於行政院人權處、對於法務部、對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時，人權會的意見是如何？"],["李秘書長俊俋：跟吳委員報告，現在我的理解是，行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個立場……"],["吳委員思瑤：它目前是族群為主？"],["李秘書長俊俋：沒有。"],["吳委員思瑤：全方位的嗎？"],["李秘書長俊俋：它現在是由行政院整個全方位……這個部分也有徵詢監察院的意見。"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["李秘書長俊俋：監察院會針對這個部分，提出一個我們監察院的意見，提供給行政院做參考。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以就監察院目前人權會的立場是一個專法，全方位的、所有的歧視面向列為一部專法……"],["李秘書長俊俋：是，已經進行過很多次的討論了。"],["吳委員思瑤：是你們目前支持的，那非常好，跟本席的意見是一致的，那我們後續一起來努力。","謝謝秘書長、謝謝主席多給我時間，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員、謝謝李秘書長。","接下來，有請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員發言，時間5分鐘。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主席、各位委員，有請秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：秘書長好。本席在第9屆、第10屆都有提出反族群歧視法，但是不被接受，我認為臺灣平等的相關法律，兩性平等什麼都有，如果還要族群平等法，我認為臺灣族群基本上還有平等，只不過是要消弭族群的歧視，也就是訂定反族群歧視法，才是正辦，這給你做參考，因為你要提意見。","按照促進轉型正義條例的規定，民國77年是威權統治時期，77年5月15日退輔會主任委員許歷農函復內政部吳伯雄部長，同意將現未利用土地撤銷撥用歸還，而且還承諾今後視安置狀況，再有不需公務利用之土地，當繼續辦理撤銷撥用。這是依法行政，依什麼法呢？第一個，國軍退除役官兵輔導條例，這個條例規定得很清楚，凡為輔導退除役官兵就業所需之土地得依法撥用，退輔會沒有做就業使用，將其出租，自稱為委託經營，其實就是出租，收取利益，違反第一個剛剛講的退輔會條例。","第二個違反國有財產法第三十九條，非公用財產經撥為公用後，有下列情形之一，應該撤銷撥用，第一個，用途廢止，它廢止了，沒有做就業使用。第二個，變更原定用途，出租給民間企業。第三個，擅供收益，它出租給民間企業收取租金，違反了三個條款。在這樣的情形之下，我也請財政部發文了，但是它不理不睬，照理講，按照國有財產法的規定，財政部應該要主動。這邊寫是為了安置基金，安置基金哪是用這個！本來就有另外一個安置基金的用途，管理辦法都有，才不是從這裡，根本就是答非所問！","我現在限縮了，不要那麼大，限縮在原住民族一直都在使用的土地，但是被撥為退輔會之用，事實上，因為早期有在做就業之用，後來沒有了，所以原住民又回來繼續做，像這樣的土地，我們只不過是希望依法行政，但是到現在毫無結果，違反了三個法令。第一個，違反原住民族基本法，因為政府承認原住民族土地的權利，還違反退輔會條例、國有財產法。按照剛才退輔會許歷農主委的函復，今後視安置狀況，若再有不需公務利用之土地定當繼續辦理撤銷撥用，就原住民族而言，這是對我們的承諾，是對原住民的承諾，所以也違反民法。","在這樣的情形之下，我再講一次，威權統治時期許歷農都可以依法廢止撥用，現今民主憲政時期，竟然沒辦法做到。去年3月23日我也質詢過前任秘書長，去年11月8日我也質詢過李秘書長，現在進度到底怎麼樣？"],["李秘書長俊俋：跟委員報告，這個案件已經在去年9月26日由幾位委員立案調查，現在在調查中。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那麼久！那很容易啊！根本不用下鄉。"],["李秘書長俊俋：時間還沒有到。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：只要看公文就知道了。"],["李秘書長俊俋：不能只看公文。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當初怎麼撥用，撥用是做什麼使用，你只要發文給退輔會瞭解現在是做什麼使用，它一定說委託經營，委託經營就錯了、就違法了。"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個部分正在調查中，我不便表示意見。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：但是你可以轉達。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我可以轉達給委員知道。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：轉達這個已經太久了，不用下鄉去看，看公文就可以了，只要請退輔會把實際的情形……"],["李秘書長俊俋：我會把鄭委員今天的意見轉達給我們的調查委員知道。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，總要答復我，到現在沒有答復我。"],["主席：因為時間關係，請李秘書長提供給鄭委員。"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個部分我提供書面給鄭委員。"],["主席：謝謝鄭委員、謝謝李秘書長。接下來有請楊委員瓊瓔發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-5","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","陳俊宇","羅智強","傅崐萁","林思銘","吳宗憲","謝龍介","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 749.498, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 749.498, \"end\": 749.518, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 749.518, \"end\": 749.538, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,414 --> 00:00:04,875\n立法院有對於行政院行政官員的任免權\n\n2\n00:00:32,384 --> 00:00:53,165\n之外剛剛我又赫然聆聽了他的質詢他說他想要定定也要求監察院是不是來針對監察委員的事任與否要來定定監察委員行為法吳委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊\n\n3\n00:00:54,588 --> 00:01:19,154\n他顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言也逾越了各個憲政機關的權力分立的原則秘書長你可不可以再說一下你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行違法其實我先說啦\n\n4\n00:01:20,895 --> 00:01:28,845\n應當請國民黨的委員好好去把立法委員行為法好好去思考如何精進立法委員的問政專業問政水平自己從自己問政的課則\n\n5\n00:01:33,482 --> 00:01:58,068\n就責對自己的強化提升素質開始來秘書長給您一點時間委員這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評我們都沒有意見也沒有評論那我就我的職權範圍我來報告我今天是來做立法報告這是我們職權新司法71條的規定那我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫\n\n6\n00:01:59,148 --> 00:02:01,970\n了解收到謝謝秘書長的說明我想我們非常成熟的公民社會的公民在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷\n\n7\n00:02:20,123 --> 00:02:25,509\n一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張?\n\n8\n00:02:25,509 --> 00:02:35,139\n孰可忍,孰不可忍?我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律喔那進入我今天的主題,我有兩個主題我很快速的跟您分享\n\n9\n00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:49,133\n一個就是我們如何在監察院的人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法這也畢竟跟人權事項相關\n\n10\n00:02:51,375 --> 00:02:51,395\n吳思瑤議員\n\n11\n00:03:11,780 --> 00:03:24,329\n監察院2020年成立的人權會而行政院也在2022年提出台灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫這都是台灣的人權邁大步監察院的同仁人權會大家辛苦了下頁\n\n12\n00:03:25,390 --> 00:03:49,125\n那早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢針對監察法的修正案確實當初立法院在審議我們的人權會組織法的時候做成了決議希望是以人權專章在監察法入法而不是採行一個作用法用一個職權行使法的方式那因為現在就是你們即將提出監察法人權專章的\n\n13\n00:03:51,267 --> 00:03:57,680\n關鍵時刻我提出分享我的觀點如何讓人權主流化能夠貫注在你未來提出來的法案\n\n14\n00:03:59,372 --> 00:04:22,953\n那我想台灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的從性別主流化到族群主流化到文化主流化我們從組織面都有對應的機構在法制面都有相關的法規乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關的議題主流化我想這是一個對的思維\n\n15\n00:04:24,654 --> 00:04:42,497\n那所以我們在性別在族群還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭我們成立了行政院的文化匯報我們讓部部都是文化部甚至我們也千辛萬苦來推出回應了文化界二三十年來的倡議成立了文化基本法\n\n16\n00:04:43,158 --> 00:04:43,198\n：吳思瑤：吳思瑤\n\n17\n00:04:58,035 --> 00:04:58,255\n主席\n\n18\n00:05:15,682 --> 00:05:44,006\n兩個部分對吳委員所主張的議題主流化的部分我完全贊成應該更積極的推動各種不同相關議題的主流化至於說是不是一定要訂一個人權基本法這件事情因為憲法裡面最重要兩個部分一個是人權的基本保障一個是國家機關的組成所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋如果說人權規範不足的話其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法\n\n19\n00:05:46,166 --> 00:06:10,152\n好我了解謝謝秘書長的意見分享我要再澄清我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法我只是在拋出這樣議題我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會如何落實人權主流化那就非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章如何能夠在院計之間在部會之間能夠真的做到這樣的進步人權的思維\n\n20\n00:06:10,592 --> 00:06:11,673\n我未來會來支持我們進一步再來探究下一頁\n\n21\n00:06:26,743 --> 00:06:55,036\n人權政策到底誰是領頭羊這也是我對於人權會的組織我一直存有很大的疑惑人權會到底是上位機關他是整合的機構還是他本身也承擔了部分的執行其實人權會一年好像一億三左右的預算一億二左右那我們現在散列在院紀之間行政院的人權轉型正義處還有各部會都在做人權工作\n\n22\n00:06:55,916 --> 00:07:17,651\n中東部有原轉會：中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究：包括轉型正義研究本期一直在督促他們強化：國師館也在做人權的很多策展文件的研究：那當然司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的：文官跟司法人員他也承擔了相當的責任：\n\n23\n00:07:19,292 --> 00:07:39,573\n但依我們行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議報告意見你們做出來就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實所以如果這樣解讀你們是尚未機關囉\n\n24\n00:07:41,349 --> 00:08:03,107\n依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導就是說如何讓他推動那實際的執行面應該是在行政院的人權處至於這樣的設計到底合不合適這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過因為最大的原則是要成立一個\n\n25\n00:08:03,567 --> 00:08:06,889\n所以這個部分我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點至少我本席本人此時此刻站在這裡我雖然是司法法制委員會的新生但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮到底能不能夠到位\n\n26\n00:08:31,744 --> 00:08:38,166\n我覺得還是可以思考沒有問題我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究但無論如何監督的成效要出來確實在你們組織法裡頭不外乎是監督協助提建議等等這樣子的一個部分好那因為時間有限我其實最怕是要跟您講我長期在教育部門文化部門還有中研院的監督我過去在教文委員會我認為人權來下一頁下一頁\n\n27\n00:09:01,275 --> 00:09:20,995\n在下一頁這有國際經驗德國跟波蘭我就不說了下一頁其實就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭我擴大了面向把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣\n\n28\n00:09:22,196 --> 00:09:44,759\n所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享我認為我也提醒下一頁監察院對於文化部的不易移植立法文化遺產體驗教育的深化教育部門的人權教育向下扎根乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更\n\n29\n00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:45,700\n立法院議員吳思瑤議員\n\n30\n00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,103\n臺灣需要一部反歧視法也是落實聯合國SDGS的項目當中的減少不平等人與人之間的不平等要被消滅國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破\n\n31\n00:10:44,261 --> 00:10:44,821\n所以呢下一頁\n\n32\n00:11:00,966 --> 00:11:24,573\n現在的反歧視法散列在7部法規﹖法律欠缺﹖法一致性﹖好下一頁所以我借盡了國際的經驗加拿大德國英國瑞典乃至於鄰近國家日本都有一個專法在進行反歧視法或者是稱之為平等法的一個單一專法而且它的位階是高的下一頁\n\n33\n00:11:25,453 --> 00:11:42,211\n所以最後一頁等一下一頁我拋出這樣的問題也是我很好奇想提到因為你們的組織法當中對於跟人權相關的不管是修憲立法修法都有你們的職責現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法\n\n34\n00:11:43,348 --> 00:12:06,317\n內政部在做但法務部同時我那天也質詢了我們的這個法務部長法務部正在研議是一個專法來全方位來進行反歧視法而法務部的平等法的這個裡頭組織裡頭監督機關就是國家人權委員會所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人但在我心目中李俊逸就是最棒的法律專家\n\n35\n00:12:08,298 --> 00:12:28,838\n對於行政院人權處對於法務部對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時人權會的意見是如何跟吳委員報告現在我的理解是行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個利益目前是族群\n\n36\n00:12:29,338 --> 00:12:29,538\n謝謝吳委員謝謝李秘書長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3414\t4875\t立法院有對於行政院行政官員的任免權\n32384\t53165\t之外剛剛我又赫然聆聽了他的質詢他說他想要定定也要求監察院是不是來針對監察委員的事任與否要來定定監察委員行為法吳委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊\n54588\t79154\t他顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言也逾越了各個憲政機關的權力分立的原則秘書長你可不可以再說一下你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行違法其實我先說啦\n80895\t88845\t應當請國民黨的委員好好去把立法委員行為法好好去思考如何精進立法委員的問政專業問政水平自己從自己問政的課則\n93482\t118068\t就責對自己的強化提升素質開始來秘書長給您一點時間委員這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評我們都沒有意見也沒有評論那我就我的職權範圍我來報告我今天是來做立法報告這是我們職權新司法71條的規定那我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫\n119148\t121970\t了解收到謝謝秘書長的說明我想我們非常成熟的公民社會的公民在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷\n140123\t145509\t一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張?\n145509\t155139\t孰可忍,孰不可忍?我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律喔那進入我今天的主題,我有兩個主題我很快速的跟您分享\n155800\t169133\t一個就是我們如何在監察院的人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法這也畢竟跟人權事項相關\n171375\t171395\t吳思瑤議員\n191780\t204329\t監察院2020年成立的人權會而行政院也在2022年提出台灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫這都是台灣的人權邁大步監察院的同仁人權會大家辛苦了下頁\n205390\t229125\t那早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢 針對監察法的修正案確實當初立法院在審議 我們的人權會組織法的時候做成了決議希望是以人權專章在監察法入法 而不是採行一個作用法用一個職權行使法的方式那因為現在就是你們即將提出 監察法人權專章的\n231267\t237680\t關鍵時刻我提出分享我的觀點如何讓人權主流化能夠貫注在你未來提出來的法案\n239372\t262953\t那我想台灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的從性別主流化到族群主流化到文化主流化我們從組織面都有對應的機構在法制面都有相關的法規乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關的議題主流化我想這是一個對的思維\n264654\t282497\t那所以我們在性別在族群還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭我們成立了行政院的文化匯報我們讓部部都是文化部甚至我們也千辛萬苦來推出回應了文化界二三十年來的倡議成立了文化基本法\n283158\t283198\t：吳思瑤：吳思瑤\n298035\t298255\t主席\n315682\t344006\t兩個部分對吳委員所主張的議題主流化的部分我完全贊成應該更積極的推動各種不同相關議題的主流化至於說是不是一定要訂一個人權基本法這件事情因為憲法裡面最重要兩個部分一個是人權的基本保障一個是國家機關的組成所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋如果說人權規範不足的話其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法\n346166\t370152\t好我了解謝謝秘書長的意見分享我要再澄清我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法我只是在拋出這樣議題我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會如何落實人權主流化那就非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章如何能夠在院計之間在部會之間能夠真的做到這樣的進步人權的思維\n370592\t371673\t我未來會來支持我們進一步再來探究下一頁\n386743\t415036\t人權政策到底誰是領頭羊這也是我對於人權會的組織我一直存有很大的疑惑人權會到底是上位機關他是整合的機構還是他本身也承擔了部分的執行其實人權會一年好像一億三左右的預算一億二左右那我們現在散列在院紀之間行政院的人權轉型正義處還有各部會都在做人權工作\n415916\t437651\t中東部有原轉會：中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究：包括轉型正義研究本期一直在督促他們強化：國師館也在做人權的很多策展文件的研究：那當然司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的：文官跟司法人員他也承擔了相當的責任：\n439292\t459573\t但依我們行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議報告意見你們做出來就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實所以如果這樣解讀你們是尚未機關囉\n461349\t483107\t依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導就是說如何讓他推動那實際的執行面應該是在行政院的人權處至於這樣的設計到底合不合適這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過因為最大的原則是要成立一個\n483567\t486889\t所以這個部分我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點至少我本席本人此時此刻站在這裡我雖然是司法法制委員會的新生但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮到底能不能夠到位\n511744\t518166\t我覺得還是可以思考沒有問題我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究但無論如何監督的成效要出來確實在你們組織法裡頭不外乎是監督協助提建議等等這樣子的一個部分好那因為時間有限我其實最怕是要跟您講我長期在教育部門文化部門還有中研院的監督我過去在教文委員會我認為人權來下一頁下一頁\n541275\t560995\t在下一頁這有國際經驗德國跟波蘭我就不說了下一頁其實就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭我擴大了面向把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣\n562196\t584759\t所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享我認為我也提醒下一頁監察院對於文化部的不易移植立法文化遺產體驗教育的深化教育部門的人權教育向下扎根乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更\n585520\t585700\t立法院議員吳思瑤議員\n615600\t620103\t臺灣需要一部反歧視法也是落實聯合國SDGS的項目當中的減少不平等人與人之間的不平等要被消滅國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破\n644261\t644821\t所以呢 下一頁\n660966\t684573\t現在的反歧視法散列在7部法規﹖法律欠缺﹖法一致性﹖好下一頁所以我借盡了國際的經驗加拿大德國英國瑞典乃至於鄰近國家日本都有一個專法在進行反歧視法或者是稱之為平等法的一個單一專法而且它的位階是高的下一頁\n685453\t702211\t所以最後一頁 等一下一頁我拋出這樣的問題也是我很好奇想提到因為你們的組織法當中對於跟人權相關的不管是修憲立法修法都有你們的職責現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法\n703348\t726317\t內政部在做但法務部同時我那天也質詢了我們的這個法務部長法務部正在研議是一個專法來全方位來進行反歧視法而法務部的平等法的這個裡頭組織裡頭監督機關就是國家人權委員會所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人但在我心目中李俊逸就是最棒的法律專家\n728298\t748838\t對於行政院人權處對於法務部對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時人權會的意見是如何跟吳委員報告現在我的理解是行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個利益目前是族群\n749338\t749538\t謝謝吳委員 謝謝李秘書長\n","txt":"立法院有對於行政院行政官員的任免權\n之外剛剛我又赫然聆聽了他的質詢他說他想要定定也要求監察院是不是來針對監察委員的事任與否要來定定監察委員行為法吳委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊\n他顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言也逾越了各個憲政機關的權力分立的原則秘書長你可不可以再說一下你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行違法其實我先說啦\n應當請國民黨的委員好好去把立法委員行為法好好去思考如何精進立法委員的問政專業問政水平自己從自己問政的課則\n就責對自己的強化提升素質開始來秘書長給您一點時間委員這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評我們都沒有意見也沒有評論那我就我的職權範圍我來報告我今天是來做立法報告這是我們職權新司法71條的規定那我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫\n了解收到謝謝秘書長的說明我想我們非常成熟的公民社會的公民在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷\n一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張?\n孰可忍,孰不可忍?我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律喔那進入我今天的主題,我有兩個主題我很快速的跟您分享\n一個就是我們如何在監察院的人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法這也畢竟跟人權事項相關\n吳思瑤議員\n監察院2020年成立的人權會而行政院也在2022年提出台灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫這都是台灣的人權邁大步監察院的同仁人權會大家辛苦了下頁\n那早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢 針對監察法的修正案確實當初立法院在審議 我們的人權會組織法的時候做成了決議希望是以人權專章在監察法入法 而不是採行一個作用法用一個職權行使法的方式那因為現在就是你們即將提出 監察法人權專章的\n關鍵時刻我提出分享我的觀點如何讓人權主流化能夠貫注在你未來提出來的法案\n那我想台灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的從性別主流化到族群主流化到文化主流化我們從組織面都有對應的機構在法制面都有相關的法規乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關的議題主流化我想這是一個對的思維\n那所以我們在性別在族群還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭我們成立了行政院的文化匯報我們讓部部都是文化部甚至我們也千辛萬苦來推出回應了文化界二三十年來的倡議成立了文化基本法\n：吳思瑤：吳思瑤\n主席\n兩個部分對吳委員所主張的議題主流化的部分我完全贊成應該更積極的推動各種不同相關議題的主流化至於說是不是一定要訂一個人權基本法這件事情因為憲法裡面最重要兩個部分一個是人權的基本保障一個是國家機關的組成所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋如果說人權規範不足的話其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法\n好我了解謝謝秘書長的意見分享我要再澄清我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法我只是在拋出這樣議題我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會如何落實人權主流化那就非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章如何能夠在院計之間在部會之間能夠真的做到這樣的進步人權的思維\n我未來會來支持我們進一步再來探究下一頁\n人權政策到底誰是領頭羊這也是我對於人權會的組織我一直存有很大的疑惑人權會到底是上位機關他是整合的機構還是他本身也承擔了部分的執行其實人權會一年好像一億三左右的預算一億二左右那我們現在散列在院紀之間行政院的人權轉型正義處還有各部會都在做人權工作\n中東部有原轉會：中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究：包括轉型正義研究本期一直在督促他們強化：國師館也在做人權的很多策展文件的研究：那當然司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的：文官跟司法人員他也承擔了相當的責任：\n但依我們行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議報告意見你們做出來就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實所以如果這樣解讀你們是尚未機關囉\n依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導就是說如何讓他推動那實際的執行面應該是在行政院的人權處至於這樣的設計到底合不合適這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過因為最大的原則是要成立一個\n所以這個部分我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點至少我本席本人此時此刻站在這裡我雖然是司法法制委員會的新生但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮到底能不能夠到位\n我覺得還是可以思考沒有問題我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究但無論如何監督的成效要出來確實在你們組織法裡頭不外乎是監督協助提建議等等這樣子的一個部分好那因為時間有限我其實最怕是要跟您講我長期在教育部門文化部門還有中研院的監督我過去在教文委員會我認為人權來下一頁下一頁\n在下一頁這有國際經驗德國跟波蘭我就不說了下一頁其實就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭我擴大了面向把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣\n所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享我認為我也提醒下一頁監察院對於文化部的不易移植立法文化遺產體驗教育的深化教育部門的人權教育向下扎根乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更\n立法院議員吳思瑤議員\n臺灣需要一部反歧視法也是落實聯合國SDGS的項目當中的減少不平等人與人之間的不平等要被消滅國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破\n所以呢 下一頁\n現在的反歧視法散列在7部法規﹖法律欠缺﹖法一致性﹖好下一頁所以我借盡了國際的經驗加拿大德國英國瑞典乃至於鄰近國家日本都有一個專法在進行反歧視法或者是稱之為平等法的一個單一專法而且它的位階是高的下一頁\n所以最後一頁 等一下一頁我拋出這樣的問題也是我很好奇想提到因為你們的組織法當中對於跟人權相關的不管是修憲立法修法都有你們的職責現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法\n內政部在做但法務部同時我那天也質詢了我們的這個法務部長法務部正在研議是一個專法來全方位來進行反歧視法而法務部的平等法的這個裡頭組織裡頭監督機關就是國家人權委員會所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人但在我心目中李俊逸就是最棒的法律專家\n對於行政院人權處對於法務部對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時人權會的意見是如何跟吳委員報告現在我的理解是行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個利益目前是族群\n謝謝吳委員 謝謝李秘書長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.414 --> 00:04.875\n立法院有對於行政院行政官員的任免權\n\n00:32.384 --> 00:53.165\n之外剛剛我又赫然聆聽了他的質詢他說他想要定定也要求監察院是不是來針對監察委員的事任與否要來定定監察委員行為法吳委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊\n\n00:54.588 --> 01:19.154\n他顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言也逾越了各個憲政機關的權力分立的原則秘書長你可不可以再說一下你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行違法其實我先說啦\n\n01:20.895 --> 01:28.845\n應當請國民黨的委員好好去把立法委員行為法好好去思考如何精進立法委員的問政專業問政水平自己從自己問政的課則\n\n01:33.482 --> 01:58.068\n就責對自己的強化提升素質開始來秘書長給您一點時間委員這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評我們都沒有意見也沒有評論那我就我的職權範圍我來報告我今天是來做立法報告這是我們職權新司法71條的規定那我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫\n\n01:59.148 --> 02:01.970\n了解收到謝謝秘書長的說明我想我們非常成熟的公民社會的公民在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷\n\n02:20.123 --> 02:25.509\n一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張?\n\n02:25.509 --> 02:35.139\n孰可忍,孰不可忍?我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律喔那進入我今天的主題,我有兩個主題我很快速的跟您分享\n\n02:35.800 --> 02:49.133\n一個就是我們如何在監察院的人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法這也畢竟跟人權事項相關\n\n02:51.375 --> 02:51.395\n吳思瑤議員\n\n03:11.780 --> 03:24.329\n監察院2020年成立的人權會而行政院也在2022年提出台灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫這都是台灣的人權邁大步監察院的同仁人權會大家辛苦了下頁\n\n03:25.390 --> 03:49.125\n那早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢針對監察法的修正案確實當初立法院在審議我們的人權會組織法的時候做成了決議希望是以人權專章在監察法入法而不是採行一個作用法用一個職權行使法的方式那因為現在就是你們即將提出監察法人權專章的\n\n03:51.267 --> 03:57.680\n關鍵時刻我提出分享我的觀點如何讓人權主流化能夠貫注在你未來提出來的法案\n\n03:59.372 --> 04:22.953\n那我想台灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的從性別主流化到族群主流化到文化主流化我們從組織面都有對應的機構在法制面都有相關的法規乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關的議題主流化我想這是一個對的思維\n\n04:24.654 --> 04:42.497\n那所以我們在性別在族群還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭我們成立了行政院的文化匯報我們讓部部都是文化部甚至我們也千辛萬苦來推出回應了文化界二三十年來的倡議成立了文化基本法\n\n04:43.158 --> 04:43.198\n：吳思瑤：吳思瑤\n\n04:58.035 --> 04:58.255\n主席\n\n05:15.682 --> 05:44.006\n兩個部分對吳委員所主張的議題主流化的部分我完全贊成應該更積極的推動各種不同相關議題的主流化至於說是不是一定要訂一個人權基本法這件事情因為憲法裡面最重要兩個部分一個是人權的基本保障一個是國家機關的組成所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋如果說人權規範不足的話其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法\n\n05:46.166 --> 06:10.152\n好我了解謝謝秘書長的意見分享我要再澄清我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法我只是在拋出這樣議題我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會如何落實人權主流化那就非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章如何能夠在院計之間在部會之間能夠真的做到這樣的進步人權的思維\n\n06:10.592 --> 06:11.673\n我未來會來支持我們進一步再來探究下一頁\n\n06:26.743 --> 06:55.036\n人權政策到底誰是領頭羊這也是我對於人權會的組織我一直存有很大的疑惑人權會到底是上位機關他是整合的機構還是他本身也承擔了部分的執行其實人權會一年好像一億三左右的預算一億二左右那我們現在散列在院紀之間行政院的人權轉型正義處還有各部會都在做人權工作\n\n06:55.916 --> 07:17.651\n中東部有原轉會：中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究：包括轉型正義研究本期一直在督促他們強化：國師館也在做人權的很多策展文件的研究：那當然司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的：文官跟司法人員他也承擔了相當的責任：\n\n07:19.292 --> 07:39.573\n但依我們行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議報告意見你們做出來就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實所以如果這樣解讀你們是尚未機關囉\n\n07:41.349 --> 08:03.107\n依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導就是說如何讓他推動那實際的執行面應該是在行政院的人權處至於這樣的設計到底合不合適這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過因為最大的原則是要成立一個\n\n08:03.567 --> 08:06.889\n所以這個部分我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點至少我本席本人此時此刻站在這裡我雖然是司法法制委員會的新生但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮到底能不能夠到位\n\n08:31.744 --> 08:38.166\n我覺得還是可以思考沒有問題我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究但無論如何監督的成效要出來確實在你們組織法裡頭不外乎是監督協助提建議等等這樣子的一個部分好那因為時間有限我其實最怕是要跟您講我長期在教育部門文化部門還有中研院的監督我過去在教文委員會我認為人權來下一頁下一頁\n\n09:01.275 --> 09:20.995\n在下一頁這有國際經驗德國跟波蘭我就不說了下一頁其實就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭我擴大了面向把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣\n\n09:22.196 --> 09:44.759\n所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享我認為我也提醒下一頁監察院對於文化部的不易移植立法文化遺產體驗教育的深化教育部門的人權教育向下扎根乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更\n\n09:45.520 --> 09:45.700\n立法院議員吳思瑤議員\n\n10:15.600 --> 10:20.103\n臺灣需要一部反歧視法也是落實聯合國SDGS的項目當中的減少不平等人與人之間的不平等要被消滅國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破\n\n10:44.261 --> 10:44.821\n所以呢下一頁\n\n11:00.966 --> 11:24.573\n現在的反歧視法散列在7部法規﹖法律欠缺﹖法一致性﹖好下一頁所以我借盡了國際的經驗加拿大德國英國瑞典乃至於鄰近國家日本都有一個專法在進行反歧視法或者是稱之為平等法的一個單一專法而且它的位階是高的下一頁\n\n11:25.453 --> 11:42.211\n所以最後一頁等一下一頁我拋出這樣的問題也是我很好奇想提到因為你們的組織法當中對於跟人權相關的不管是修憲立法修法都有你們的職責現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法\n\n11:43.348 --> 12:06.317\n內政部在做但法務部同時我那天也質詢了我們的這個法務部長法務部正在研議是一個專法來全方位來進行反歧視法而法務部的平等法的這個裡頭組織裡頭監督機關就是國家人權委員會所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人但在我心目中李俊逸就是最棒的法律專家\n\n12:08.298 --> 12:28.838\n對於行政院人權處對於法務部對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時人權會的意見是如何跟吳委員報告現在我的理解是行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個利益目前是族群\n\n12:29.338 --> 12:29.538\n謝謝吳委員謝謝李秘書長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.414,"end":4.875,"text":"立法院有對於行政院行政官員的任免權"},{"start":32.384,"end":53.165,"text":"之外剛剛我又赫然聆聽了他的質詢他說他想要定定也要求監察院是不是來針對監察委員的事任與否要來定定監察委員行為法吳委員顯然把自己當作五院的糾察隊"},{"start":54.588,"end":79.154,"text":"他顯然真的把立法委員的權力無上限的擴大我想這樣一個超越憲法的發言也逾越了各個憲政機關的權力分立的原則秘書長你可不可以再說一下你是否同意一個立委可以針對監察委員定行違法其實我先說啦"},{"start":80.895,"end":88.845,"text":"應當請國民黨的委員好好去把立法委員行為法好好去思考如何精進立法委員的問政專業問政水平自己從自己問政的課則"},{"start":93.482,"end":118.068,"text":"就責對自己的強化提升素質開始來秘書長給您一點時間委員這個部分對任何立法委員的發言跟批評我們都沒有意見也沒有評論那我就我的職權範圍我來報告我今天是來做立法報告這是我們職權新司法71條的規定那我希望大家問的也集中在我們報告所提出來的立法計畫"},{"start":119.148,"end":121.97,"text":"了解收到謝謝秘書長的說明我想我們非常成熟的公民社會的公民在聆聽直播的這些朋友們都非常能夠清楚的判斷"},{"start":140.123,"end":145.509,"text":"一個立法委員是否適合提出這樣逾越憲法的主張?"},{"start":145.509,"end":155.139,"text":"孰可忍,孰不可忍?我認為委員之間還是要有所自制跟自律喔那進入我今天的主題,我有兩個主題我很快速的跟您分享"},{"start":155.8,"end":169.133,"text":"一個就是我們如何在監察院的人權會的架構之下來推動全方位的人權主流化另外一個就是我個人在研議跟推動中的反歧視法或是平等法的立法這也畢竟跟人權事項相關"},{"start":171.375,"end":171.395,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":191.78,"end":204.329,"text":"監察院2020年成立的人權會而行政院也在2022年提出台灣的第一本國家人權行動計畫這都是台灣的人權邁大步監察院的同仁人權會大家辛苦了下頁"},{"start":205.39,"end":229.125,"text":"那早上您回答了很多委員的垂詢 針對監察法的修正案確實當初立法院在審議 我們的人權會組織法的時候做成了決議希望是以人權專章在監察法入法 而不是採行一個作用法用一個職權行使法的方式那因為現在就是你們即將提出 監察法人權專章的"},{"start":231.267,"end":237.68,"text":"關鍵時刻我提出分享我的觀點如何讓人權主流化能夠貫注在你未來提出來的法案"},{"start":239.372,"end":262.953,"text":"那我想台灣對於議題主流化是非常有經驗的從性別主流化到族群主流化到文化主流化我們從組織面都有對應的機構在法制面都有相關的法規乃至於政策面可以去落實一個不論誰執政都可以可長可久的相關的議題主流化我想這是一個對的思維"},{"start":264.654,"end":282.497,"text":"那所以我們在性別在族群還有本人投入很多的文化主流化裡頭我們成立了行政院的文化匯報我們讓部部都是文化部甚至我們也千辛萬苦來推出回應了文化界二三十年來的倡議成立了文化基本法"},{"start":283.158,"end":283.198,"text":"：吳思瑤：吳思瑤"},{"start":298.035,"end":298.255,"text":"主席"},{"start":315.682,"end":344.006,"text":"兩個部分對吳委員所主張的議題主流化的部分我完全贊成應該更積極的推動各種不同相關議題的主流化至於說是不是一定要訂一個人權基本法這件事情因為憲法裡面最重要兩個部分一個是人權的基本保障一個是國家機關的組成所以這兩個部分應該就可以涵蓋如果說人權規範不足的話其實朝修憲的方向也是一個方法"},{"start":346.166,"end":370.152,"text":"好我了解謝謝秘書長的意見分享我要再澄清我不是我個人就主張要有人權基本法我只是在拋出這樣議題我珍惜今天可以跟您對話的機會如何落實人權主流化那就非常期待未來我們提出來的人權專章如何能夠在院計之間在部會之間能夠真的做到這樣的進步人權的思維"},{"start":370.592,"end":371.673,"text":"我未來會來支持我們進一步再來探究下一頁"},{"start":386.743,"end":415.036,"text":"人權政策到底誰是領頭羊這也是我對於人權會的組織我一直存有很大的疑惑人權會到底是上位機關他是整合的機構還是他本身也承擔了部分的執行其實人權會一年好像一億三左右的預算一億二左右那我們現在散列在院紀之間行政院的人權轉型正義處還有各部會都在做人權工作"},{"start":415.916,"end":437.651,"text":"中東部有原轉會：中研院也在做人權相關的學術研究：包括轉型正義研究本期一直在督促他們強化：國師館也在做人權的很多策展文件的研究：那當然司法院跟考試院基於培育具有人權思維的：文官跟司法人員他也承擔了相當的責任："},{"start":439.292,"end":459.573,"text":"但依我們行政院的國家人權行動計畫裡頭寫得很清楚國家人權委員會對行政部門所做成的人權事項有相關建議報告意見你們做出來就是監察院的人權委員會做出來的各部會都要遵守落實所以如果這樣解讀你們是尚未機關囉"},{"start":461.349,"end":483.107,"text":"依照現在人權委員會組織法的規定我們主要進行的部分是監督跟指導就是說如何讓他推動那實際的執行面應該是在行政院的人權處至於這樣的設計到底合不合適這其實過去在國家人權委員會成立的時候就討論過因為最大的原則是要成立一個"},{"start":483.567,"end":486.889,"text":"所以這個部分我覺得還是要把組織定位再思考清楚一點至少我本席本人此時此刻站在這裡我雖然是司法法制委員會的新生但我一直對於這樣的定位本身職能的發揮到底能不能夠到位"},{"start":511.744,"end":518.166,"text":"我覺得還是可以思考沒有問題我們後續還有很長遠的機會可以來探究但無論如何監督的成效要出來確實在你們組織法裡頭不外乎是監督協助提建議等等這樣子的一個部分好那因為時間有限我其實最怕是要跟您講我長期在教育部門文化部門還有中研院的監督我過去在教文委員會我認為人權來下一頁下一頁"},{"start":541.275,"end":560.995,"text":"在下一頁這有國際經驗德國跟波蘭我就不說了下一頁其實就本席在促轉條例的修法裡頭我擴大了面向把過去的促轉基金能夠用在長照社福之外本席最focus的其實是要強化人權教育跟文化推廣"},{"start":562.196,"end":584.759,"text":"所以我下面沒有時間來跟您分享我認為我也提醒下一頁監察院對於文化部的不易移植立法文化遺產體驗教育的深化教育部門的人權教育向下扎根乃至於中研院的鼓勵轉型正義跟人權學術研究的監督跟協助要更"},{"start":585.52,"end":585.7,"text":"立法院議員吳思瑤議員"},{"start":615.6,"end":620.103,"text":"臺灣需要一部反歧視法也是落實聯合國SDGS的項目當中的減少不平等人與人之間的不平等要被消滅國與國之間的不平等更應當被打破"},{"start":644.261,"end":644.821,"text":"所以呢 下一頁"},{"start":660.966,"end":684.573,"text":"現在的反歧視法散列在7部法規﹖法律欠缺﹖法一致性﹖好下一頁所以我借盡了國際的經驗加拿大德國英國瑞典乃至於鄰近國家日本都有一個專法在進行反歧視法或者是稱之為平等法的一個單一專法而且它的位階是高的下一頁"},{"start":685.453,"end":702.211,"text":"所以最後一頁 等一下一頁我拋出這樣的問題也是我很好奇想提到因為你們的組織法當中對於跟人權相關的不管是修憲立法修法都有你們的職責現在內政部在研議一個以族群反歧視為主的平等法"},{"start":703.348,"end":726.317,"text":"內政部在做但法務部同時我那天也質詢了我們的這個法務部長法務部正在研議是一個專法來全方位來進行反歧視法而法務部的平等法的這個裡頭組織裡頭監督機關就是國家人權委員會所以我想就法學專業您雖然不是法律人但在我心目中李俊逸就是最棒的法律專家"},{"start":728.298,"end":748.838,"text":"對於行政院人權處對於法務部對於內政部同步在針對歧視相關的法規在進行研議的同時人權會的意見是如何跟吳委員報告現在我的理解是行政院有在推動這個反歧視法或稱為平等法的一個利益目前是族群"},{"start":749.338,"end":749.538,"text":"謝謝吳委員 謝謝李秘書長"}]}}}}