{"id":149681,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149681","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300b0b3ff7a8f1d3f5aaf4279b9ad9aebfdf8ba9b0039caa7a6e6f0bca3cc8d690d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:28:52 - 11:38:21","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「因應中共兩會召開及年底美國總統大選，就國際及兩岸局勢發展之研析」，併請國防部副部長、海洋委員會海巡署署長列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-4"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":569,"end_time":"2024-03-11T11:38:21+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T11:28:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":710,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時27分）謝謝主席。請國安局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：局長，你是樂觀派的，大家為了國防部長的話，好幾個人都睡不著覺了，你說什麼？到目前沒有情資顯示兩岸有升高？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，沒有看到情資顯示說臺海戰爭一觸即發或是臺海緊張的情勢持續上升。"],["張委員啓楷：我先提供一個公開情資好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，請。"],["張委員啓楷：很有名的學者趙春山，是淡江大學的榮譽教授，他剛從中國大陸回來，他說兩岸隨時可能開戰，如果中國大陸現在打仗，他也不意外。這算不算重要情資？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們的情資會根據各種的情資，包括科技情報、人員情報、各種人員交流情報所彙整的結果，要判斷的就是中共整體的意圖，另外就是判斷他的軍事動作。"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉，我不是插話啦！我說你要不要邀趙春山來聊一下，瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情？"],["蔡局長明彥：各種的意見我們都會很重視。"],["張委員啓楷：現在二比一耶！現在國防部長加趙春山兩個，你自己一票，現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺？"],["蔡局長明彥：就情報機關來講，我們重視的還是情資，這個情資可能包括中共全面的軍事動態，陸、海、空、電戰、火箭軍以及空防系統有沒有相關整備的動作，有的話，一定會有徵候，這是我們情報機關在觀察兩岸情勢有沒有升高相關的判定依據。"],["張委員啓楷：兩岸這個情勢，大家大概觀察兩個很重要的點，一個就是裴洛西來臺訪問之後，看起來臺海那個中線不見了、模糊化了，對不對？最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情，第一個就是你們下令交通部要禁止組團到大陸去……"],["蔡局長明彥：這個我們沒有下令。"],["張委員啓楷：等一下我們好好討論一下，剛才你不是承認說你們一直開會、開了好幾次會嗎？這個等一下我們好好討論好不好？我先把情勢講清楚。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["張委員啓楷：禁止組團到大陸去這件事情這是一個，然後金門碰撞翻船事件到現在都沒有了，這兩個事情如果很具體去看，像我剛剛說的，裴洛西來以後，海峽的中線模糊了，現在你看大陸的船一直過來，金廈禁限制區的海域會不會被中國整個內海化？這會不會也是我們的一個危機？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，中國當然希望做這樣的操作，但我剛剛也有跟其他委員做說明，從2月14號的事件發生之後，以及2月17號中國作出政策宣示之後，中共相關的海事船隻在金廈水域的活動有稍微增加，特別是從2月25號到2月29號，但是從3月以後相關的海事活動又平緩下來，所以我們一直有在注意相關的動態，才會做出那個判斷，我們沒有看到相關的情資顯示緊張的態勢不斷地在升高當中。"],["張委員啓楷：所以局長，你那個情資有點斷斷續續對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：不是斷斷續續，是動態的在觀察。"],["張委員啓楷：你說之前他來了很多，然後現在有點平和，有點平和應該跟最近在開兩會有關係吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：都有關係，都有。"],["張委員啓楷：那應該還要注意開完兩會之後，有沒有再升高、他有沒有再來。現在我們擔心的是，你看他現在來了海警船，連3,000噸級的都來了，他等於是派軍隊來了，對不對？他等於派軍隊來了！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這要注意。"],["張委員啓楷：我們現在是小蝦米撞到大鯨魚，這是一個大的問題。第二個，他如果常常來，尤其兩會之後，他又常常來，金門禁限制區整個海域可能真的會受到影響，你們有沒有做一個比較……你剛剛一直在講，最好的打算，最壞的狀況你要準備。如果大陸一直又來，這部分你們要怎麼去因應？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，所以我們後續的觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示，後續有沒有一些常態化的動作，這個是我們要關注的重點，當然，我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況，這是有必要的。"],["張委員啓楷：局長，我今天特別跑來質詢，是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的時機點，老實講，也是一個最危險的時機點，同不同意？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們要保持高度警戒的一個關鍵的時機點，沒有錯！保持高度警戒。"],["張委員啓楷：你說高度的警戒，那我就要先問，我剛剛講的那兩個重要的事件裡面，國安局做了怎麼樣的建議？你剛才承認說有一直在開會，不管是你去或是派人去，國安單位對這兩個事情，現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸惡意螺旋一直在往上走，國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼？"],["蔡局長明彥：就國安單位來講，我再次強調，對於業管政府機關要不要開放相關團客的規劃，他有他的期程，這個我們尊重，但是就國安局的立場來講，我們會針對中共整體對臺政策以及他對臺灣的各種壓拉的手法做整體的分析，讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握，這是我們的職責。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛，你們綜合評估過了，所以你給其他相關的部會作為一個建議，事實上就我們來看可能不是建議，如果你們沒有點頭的話，我覺得禁團令也不會成啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，這是各部會的討論。"],["張委員啓楷：包括金門這個碰撞翻船的事件，如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見，我相信其他的包括海巡也不會是這樣的動作。"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，國安局是政府團隊的一員，決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度，讓各單位一起來討論。"],["張委員啓楷：你們負責國安，局長，你們非常重要，所以我才要很明確地問，到底在這兩個事件裡面，你們有沒有給了什麼很明確的指令，或者很明確重要的指示？"],["蔡局長明彥：有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考。"],["張委員啓楷：如果因為這兩個事件處理不好，導致整個惡意螺旋往上走，大家第一個想到還是國安局啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們會來注意整體的兩岸情勢。"],["張委員啓楷：國安局跟陸委會啊！所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見，你到目前沒有給我答案喔！"],["蔡局長明彥：內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露，我背負著國家機密情報的等級……"],["張委員啓楷：這是機密嗎？至少要說怎麼處理，這應該是國人要知道的吧？國人睡不睡得著，就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能處理得很好，讓我們睡得著覺啊！但目前看起來就是惡意螺旋一直在往上走，國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望……"],["蔡局長明彥：當然，這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的，怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高，是我們國安單位重中之重的責任。"],["張委員啓楷：局長，我講一個比較重的話，你期待是兩岸和平……"],["蔡局長明彥：當然，每一個人都期待兩岸和平。"],["張委員啓楷：你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來，可是你現在看到的狀況是什麼？國防部長講他睡不著覺了，第二個，你從很實際的狀況去分析，現在確實兩岸是緊繃的，連一個金門的撞船，我們不要講撞船，講碰撞好了，翻船這個事件到現在都沒有了啊，現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情，為什麼要打自己的旅行社？M503現在有因為你國安局做了這個決定，或者說我們整體政府做了這個決定而有改變嗎？有改變嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：我還是說明一下，國防部的部分，他基於他的職責，然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應，這是國防部的權責，我們也尊重邱部長對外的發言以及表述他的心境、心緒，我們都予以尊重。但是就情報單位來講，我們重視的還是要有情資，我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣，而我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資。"],["張委員啓楷：局長，這兩個重要的事件，第一個、你是要抗議他的M503，對不對？現在這個事情有因為我們做了這個動作而改變嗎？沒有，對不對？第二個、你說他們的團不來，這個有改變嗎？也沒有！然後兩岸的惡意螺旋一直往上走，這跟你本來希望兩岸和平降溫，達到的效果是相反的，是不是？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。整體各部會都還是有相關的評估，兩岸的互動是一個動態的過程。老實講，臺海情勢穩定對於各方，包括對岸來講，都是符合他的利益的。我老實跟委員報告，過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管，我們還是有相關的情資。"],["張委員啓楷：局長，我要提醒的是，我看到新聞報導從顧立雄到你，你們國安團隊是留下來的，可能要恭喜你們。可是我剛剛是在提醒，光是最近這兩件重大的事情都沒有達到讓兩岸降溫、可以交流，敵意都是往上走的，可能要再回去好好檢討一下。當初國安局或整個團隊到底為什麼要做這個決定，這到底是一個對的決定，還是不對？如果有問題要檢討，就要趕快去改，好不好？","另外，520之前是一個最敏感，可能也是最危險的時候，國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺？有沒有什麼因應措施？有沒有準備好？"],["蔡局長明彥：就這個部分來講，國安團隊、國安局指導統合協調11個情報單位跟視同情報單位，我們會嚴密地來關注中國大陸內部還有對外的行為動態。第二個、我們也會跟國際的友盟加強相關情資交流，判斷中共的意圖跟可能威脅臺灣的動作。"],["張委員啓楷：局長能不能稍微具體一點點？你看那一天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一擊、回擊的事情。我今天問你更具體一點點，你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張的關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態？萬一有一個擦槍走火，我們怎麼因應？"],["蔡局長明彥：我剛剛也跟其他委員說明過了，對於臺海可能出現的各種劇本，會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本，這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的預應方案。特別是接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟臺灣應處的機制。"],["張委員啓楷：漢光演習會推演這個東西？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，當然。"],["張委員啓楷：所以都是有準備的？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。"],["張委員啓楷：我們有好幾套劇本，包括可能進入準戰爭的狀態或者是有擦撞的時候、擦槍走火，都是在我們準備的範圍之內？"],["蔡局長明彥：當然，所以還要有一些……"],["張委員啓楷：我們做了最好的準備、最壞……"],["蔡局長明彥：除了紙上的作業規劃以外，還要再進入電腦兵棋的推演，再進入到實兵演訓，才能知道有沒有哪些環節可以再強化我們的防衛能力。這部分可以請委員放心。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝局長。我拜託一件事情就是回去檢討一下，為什麼這兩件事情是這樣處理的？處理到目前為止，M503這個問題還是存在的，陸團沒有組團來，然後兩岸整個敵意是上升的，這是第一個。拜託一下、想像一下，不要這個國安團隊留下來了，結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的，認為沒有和平，看起來兩岸還是衝突，惡意螺旋一直在往上走。第二個、520之前各種狀況都有，一定要做好最好的準備，讓我們睡得著，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員。維持和平是我們第一優先的任務，謝謝委員提醒。"],["主席：接下來請吳宗憲委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_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\"start\": 76.33, \"end\": 76.411, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 76.411, \"end\": 76.511, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 76.511, \"end\": 76.671, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 76.671, \"end\": 76.811, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 76.811, \"end\": 77.031, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 77.031, \"end\": 77.171, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 77.171, \"end\": 77.231, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 77.231, \"end\": 77.271, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 77.271, \"end\": 77.391, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.391, \"end\": 77.752, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"裴\", \"start\": 77.752, \"end\": 77.872, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 77.872, \"end\": 78.052, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"曦\", \"start\": 78.052, \"end\": 79.033, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"豪\", \"start\": 79.033, \"end\": 79.053, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 80.333, \"end\": 82.755, \"text\": \"中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 80.333, \"end\": 80.413, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 80.413, \"end\": 80.433, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 80.433, \"end\": 80.493, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 80.493, \"end\": 80.573, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 80.573, \"end\": 80.593, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 80.593, \"end\": 80.613, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 80.613, \"end\": 80.713, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"操\", \"start\": 80.713, \"end\": 80.813, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 80.813, \"end\": 80.853, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 80.853, \"end\": 80.974, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 80.974, \"end\": 81.054, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 81.054, \"end\": 81.254, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 81.254, \"end\": 81.374, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 81.374, \"end\": 81.994, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 81.994, \"end\": 82.034, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 82.034, \"end\": 82.135, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 82.135, \"end\": 82.155, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 82.155, \"end\": 82.195, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 82.195, \"end\": 82.295, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 82.295, \"end\": 82.375, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 82.375, \"end\": 82.395, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 82.395, \"end\": 82.495, \"score\": 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566.751, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 566.751, \"end\": 566.931, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 566.931, \"end\": 567.071, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 567.071, \"end\": 567.091, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,490 --> 00:00:25,426\n抱歉抱歉我不是插話啦我說你要不要邀那個趙春山來聊一下瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情對各種的意見我們都會很重視對現在2比1欸現在國防部長跟趙孫山兩個阿你是一票啦現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺沒有我想就情報機關來講我們重視的還是情資啦以情資啦喔各位委員報告齁這個情資可能包括中共的全面的軍事動態路\n\n2\n00:00:26,687 --> 00:00:30,849\n兩岸這個情勢大家大概觀察兩個很重要一個就是培諾西來台訪問之後看起來台海那個中線不見了\n\n3\n00:00:47,318 --> 00:01:00,375\n對,模糊化了嘛,對不對那最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情第一就是你們下令交通部要禁止那個入客的那個組團組團到大陸去這個我們沒有下令等一下我們好好討論一下剛才你們在想說你們\n\n4\n00:01:01,977 --> 00:01:19,053\n一直開會嗎?開了好幾次會嗎?這等一下我們好好討論好不好?我先把情勢講清楚這兩件事這幾件對不對?禁止這個組團到大陸去然後呢金門這個碰撞這個翻船事件到現在都沒有了這兩個事情如果很具體去看我知道說的裴若曦、賴義豪\n\n5\n00:01:20,333 --> 00:01:22,755\n中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後\n\n6\n00:01:37,688 --> 00:01:38,168\n所以局長你那個情勢有點\n\n7\n00:02:00,951 --> 00:02:20,568\n斷斷續續對不對不是斷斷續續是動態的在觀察之前他來了很多然後現在有點平和有點平和跟最近應該在開兩會有關係吧都有關係對不對對都有那應該還要注意開完兩會之後可能有沒有在升高他再來現在我們擔心的是你看他現在來了海警船連三千噸級的都來了他等於是派軍隊來了嘛\n\n8\n00:02:23,442 --> 00:02:38,135\n對不對?他等於派軍隊來的嘛我們現在這些小蝦米撞到大鯨魚這是一個大的問題第二個他如果常常來尤其兩會之後他又常常來金門那個縣縣建制其實那個整個海域可能就是真的會受到影響你有沒有做一個比較你剛剛一直在講\n\n9\n00:02:38,675 --> 00:02:44,121\n對,所以我們對後續的一個觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示後續有沒有一些常態化的動作這個是我們要關注的重點當然我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況\n\n10\n00:02:58,176 --> 00:03:18,149\n對這是有必要的局長我今天特別跑來質詢是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的一個時機點老蔣也是個最危險的時機點同不同意對我們要保持高度的警戒的一個關鍵的時機點沒有錯保持高度警戒高度的警戒我就要先問阿你之前我剛講那兩個重要的事件裡面\n\n11\n00:03:19,261 --> 00:03:30,006\n國安局做了怎麼樣的一個建議你剛才承認說一直在開會嘛不管是你去或者是派人去國安單位這兩個事情現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸的二一螺旋一直在往上走嘛\n\n12\n00:03:30,954 --> 00:03:58,663\n國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼就國安單位來講我再次強調對於夜館政府機關他對於要不要開放相關的團客的規劃他有他的期程這個我們尊重但是就國安局的立場來講我們會針對中共的整體對台政策以及他對台灣的各種的壓拉的手法也會做整體的分析讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握這是我們的職責你們中和評估過了所以你給了\n\n13\n00:03:59,523 --> 00:04:07,759\n所謂的其他的相關的部位作為一個建議事實上對我們來看可能不是建議啦如果你們沒有點頭的話我這個進團念也不會成啦\n\n14\n00:04:09,058 --> 00:04:32,417\n包括這個金門這個碰撞這個翻船這個事件如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見其他的包括海巡我相信也不會是這樣的動作沒有國安局是政府團隊的議員那決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度讓各單位一起來討論局長你們非常重要所以我才要很明確的問到底在這兩個事件裡面你們沒有給了什麼很明確的指令或者很明確重要的這個指示\n\n15\n00:04:32,697 --> 00:04:42,237\n有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考如果因為這兩個事件處理不好導致整個惡意螺旋往上走大家第一個想到還是國安局啊\n\n16\n00:04:43,618 --> 00:05:06,304\n國安局跟陸委會所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見你到目前沒有給我答案喔對阿那內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露這我背負著國家機密情報的等級這是機密嗎至少就說怎麼處理這應該是國人要知道的啦國人要不要睡得著就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能讓我們處理得很好讓我們睡得著覺阿目前看起來就是二一螺旋一直在往上走阿\n\n17\n00:05:06,864 --> 00:05:26,874\n國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望它繼續...當然當然這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高是我們國安單位重中之重的責任局長我講一個比較重的話好請你期待是兩岸和平當然每一個人都期待兩岸和平你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來對可是你看現在看到的狀況是什麼\n\n18\n00:05:27,853 --> 00:05:54,935\n國防部長講,國防部長講,睡不著覺了。第二個,你從很實際的狀況去分析,現在確實兩岸是緊繃的嘛。連一個金門的撞船,我們不要講撞船啦,碰撞好了,翻船這個事件,到現在都沒有了啊。現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情啊,欸為什麼要打自己的旅行社?M503有因為你做了這個決定,國安局做了這個決定,或者是我們整體政府做了這個決定,M503現在有改變嗎?\n\n19\n00:05:56,429 --> 00:06:22,043\n有改變嗎我還是說明一下那個國防部的部分他基於他的職責然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應這是國防部的權責那我們也尊重邱部長對外的一個發言以及表述他的一個心境心緒這個我們都予以尊重但是就情報單位來講我們重視的還是要有情資我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣那我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資局長\n\n20\n00:06:23,924 --> 00:06:43,911\n這兩個重要的事件,第一個你是在抗議他的M503嘛,對不對?現在這個事情有因為我們做的這個動作有改變嗎?沒有,對不對?第二個,你說他們的團不來,這個有改變嗎?也沒有。然後呢,兩岸的二一樓前一直往上走,這跟你本來希望兩岸的和平降溫,達到的效果是相反的耶。\n\n21\n00:06:45,602 --> 00:07:13,782\n整體各部會都還是有一個相關的評估啦那兩岸的互動他是一個動態的過程那老實講臺海情勢穩定對於各方包括對岸來講都是符合他的利益的老實講我老實跟委員報告過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管這我們還是有相關的情質局長我要提醒的是我看到新聞是說從顧立雄到你你們國安團隊是留下來了可能要恭喜你們可是我剛才提醒了光是最近這兩件重大的事情\n\n22\n00:07:14,687 --> 00:07:20,189\n520之前是一個最敏感可能也是最危險的時候國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺有沒有什麼因應措施有沒有準備好\n\n23\n00:07:39,194 --> 00:08:03,326\n對,就這個部分來講,我們國安團隊,國安局這邊指導統合協調有11個情報單位跟4同情報單位,我們會嚴密的來關注中國大陸內部的還有對外的行為的動態。第二個,我們也會跟國際的友盟來加強相關的情資交流,判斷中共的一個相關的意圖跟可能的威脅台灣的動作。局長,我們能稍微具體一點點,你看那天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一級飛機的這個事情。\n\n24\n00:08:03,846 --> 00:08:31,568\n我今天問你更具體一點點你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張這個關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態說萬一有一個擦槍走火我們怎麼應應?對我剛剛也跟其他委員有說明過啦對於可能台海可能出現了各種的劇本那各種的劇本它會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的一個預應的方案特別接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟台灣應處的機制\n\n25\n00:08:33,029 --> 00:08:34,750\n謝謝局長,我拜託一件事情,就是回去檢討一下為什麼這兩個事情是這樣的一個處理\n\n26\n00:09:02,109 --> 00:09:27,091\n處理到目前為止M503這個問題還是在的陸團他們沒有組團來然後兩岸是整個敵意是上升的這是第一個點拜託一下想像一下不要這個國安團隊留下來了結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的沒有和平然後看起來兩岸還是衝突二一螺旋一直在往上走第二個五二零之前各種狀況都有一定要做好稅要準備讓我們跟稅務長好不好對對好謝委員維承和平是我們第一優先的任務謝委員提醒謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1490\t25426\t抱歉抱歉我不是插話啦我說你要不要邀那個趙春山來聊一下瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情對各種的意見我們都會很重視對現在2比1欸現在國防部長跟趙孫山兩個阿你是一票啦現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺沒有我想就情報機關來講我們重視的還是情資啦以情資啦喔各位委員報告齁這個情資可能包括中共的全面的軍事動態路\n26687\t30849\t兩岸這個情勢大家大概觀察兩個很重要一個就是培諾西來台訪問之後看起來台海那個中線不見了\n47318\t60375\t對,模糊化了嘛,對不對那最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情第一就是你們下令交通部要禁止那個入客的那個組團組團到大陸去這個我們沒有下令等一下我們好好討論一下剛才你們在想說你們\n61977\t79053\t一直開會嗎?開了好幾次會嗎?這等一下我們好好討論好不好?我先把情勢講清楚這兩件事這幾件對不對?禁止這個組團到大陸去然後呢金門這個碰撞這個翻船事件到現在都沒有了這兩個事情如果很具體去看我知道說的裴若曦、賴義豪\n80333\t82755\t中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後\n97688\t98168\t所以局長你那個情勢有點\n120951\t140568\t斷斷續續對不對不是斷斷續續是動態的在觀察之前他來了很多然後現在有點平和有點平和跟最近應該在開兩會有關係吧都有關係對不對對都有那應該還要注意開完兩會之後可能有沒有在升高他再來現在我們擔心的是你看他現在來了海警船連三千噸級的都來了他等於是派軍隊來了嘛\n143442\t158135\t對不對?他等於派軍隊來的嘛我們現在這些小蝦米撞到大鯨魚這是一個大的問題第二個他如果常常來尤其兩會之後他又常常來金門那個縣縣建制其實那個整個海域可能就是真的會受到影響你有沒有做一個比較你剛剛一直在講\n158675\t164121\t對,所以我們對後續的一個觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示後續有沒有一些常態化的動作這個是我們要關注的重點當然我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況\n178176\t198149\t對這是有必要的局長我今天特別跑來質詢是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的一個時機點老蔣也是個最危險的時機點同不同意對我們要保持高度的警戒的一個關鍵的時機點沒有錯保持高度警戒高度的警戒我就要先問阿你之前我剛講那兩個重要的事件裡面\n199261\t210006\t國安局做了怎麼樣的一個建議你剛才承認說一直在開會嘛不管是你去或者是派人去國安單位這兩個事情現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸的二一螺旋一直在往上走嘛\n210954\t238663\t國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼就國安單位來講我再次強調對於夜館政府機關他對於要不要開放相關的團客的規劃他有他的期程這個我們尊重但是就國安局的立場來講我們會針對中共的整體對台政策以及他對台灣的各種的壓拉的手法也會做整體的分析讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握這是我們的職責你們中和評估過了所以你給了\n239523\t247759\t所謂的其他的相關的部位作為一個建議事實上對我們來看可能不是建議啦如果你們沒有點頭的話我這個進團念也不會成啦\n249058\t272417\t包括這個金門這個碰撞這個翻船這個事件如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見其他的包括海巡我相信也不會是這樣的動作沒有國安局是政府團隊的議員那決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度讓各單位一起來討論局長你們非常重要所以我才要很明確的問到底在這兩個事件裡面你們沒有給了什麼很明確的指令或者很明確重要的這個指示\n272697\t282237\t有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考如果因為這兩個事件處理不好導致整個惡意螺旋往上走大家第一個想到還是國安局啊\n283618\t306304\t國安局跟陸委會所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見你到目前沒有給我答案喔對阿那內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露這我背負著國家機密情報的等級這是機密嗎至少就說怎麼處理這應該是國人要知道的啦國人要不要睡得著就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能讓我們處理得很好讓我們睡得著覺阿目前看起來就是二一螺旋一直在往上走阿\n306864\t326874\t國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望它繼續...當然當然這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高是我們國安單位重中之重的責任局長我講一個比較重的話好請你期待是兩岸和平當然每一個人都期待兩岸和平你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來對可是你看現在看到的狀況是什麼\n327853\t354935\t國防部長講,國防部長講,睡不著覺了。第二個,你從很實際的狀況去分析,現在確實兩岸是緊繃的嘛。連一個金門的撞船,我們不要講撞船啦,碰撞好了,翻船這個事件,到現在都沒有了啊。現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情啊,欸為什麼要打自己的旅行社?M503有因為你做了這個決定,國安局做了這個決定,或者是我們整體政府做了這個決定,M503現在有改變嗎?\n356429\t382043\t有改變嗎我還是說明一下那個國防部的部分他基於他的職責然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應這是國防部的權責那我們也尊重邱部長對外的一個發言以及表述他的一個心境心緒這個我們都予以尊重但是就情報單位來講我們重視的還是要有情資我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣那我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資局長\n383924\t403911\t這兩個重要的事件,第一個你是在抗議他的M503嘛,對不對?現在這個事情有因為我們做的這個動作有改變嗎?沒有,對不對?第二個,你說他們的團不來,這個有改變嗎?也沒有。然後呢,兩岸的二一樓前一直往上走,這跟你本來希望兩岸的和平降溫,達到的效果是相反的耶。\n405602\t433782\t整體各部會都還是有一個相關的評估啦那兩岸的互動他是一個動態的過程那老實講臺海情勢穩定對於各方包括對岸來講都是符合他的利益的老實講我老實跟委員報告過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管這我們還是有相關的情質局長我要提醒的是我看到新聞是說從顧立雄到你你們國安團隊是留下來了可能要恭喜你們可是我剛才提醒了光是最近這兩件重大的事情\n434687\t440189\t520之前是一個最敏感可能也是最危險的時候國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺有沒有什麼因應措施有沒有準備好\n459194\t483326\t對,就這個部分來講,我們國安團隊,國安局這邊指導統合協調有11個情報單位跟4同情報單位,我們會嚴密的來關注中國大陸內部的還有對外的行為的動態。第二個,我們也會跟國際的友盟來加強相關的情資交流,判斷中共的一個相關的意圖跟可能的威脅台灣的動作。局長,我們能稍微具體一點點,你看那天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一級飛機的這個事情。\n483846\t511568\t我今天問你更具體一點點你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張這個關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態說萬一有一個擦槍走火我們怎麼應應?對我剛剛也跟其他委員有說明過啦對於可能台海可能出現了各種的劇本那各種的劇本它會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的一個預應的方案特別接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟台灣應處的機制\n513029\t514750\t謝謝局長,我拜託一件事情,就是回去檢討一下為什麼這兩個事情是這樣的一個處理\n542109\t567091\t處理到目前為止M503這個問題還是在的陸團他們沒有組團來然後兩岸是整個敵意是上升的這是第一個點拜託一下想像一下不要這個國安團隊留下來了結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的沒有和平然後看起來兩岸還是衝突二一螺旋一直在往上走第二個五二零之前各種狀況都有一定要做好稅要準備讓我們跟稅務長好不好對對好謝委員維承和平是我們第一優先的任務謝委員提醒謝謝\n","txt":"抱歉抱歉我不是插話啦我說你要不要邀那個趙春山來聊一下瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情對各種的意見我們都會很重視對現在2比1欸現在國防部長跟趙孫山兩個阿你是一票啦現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺沒有我想就情報機關來講我們重視的還是情資啦以情資啦喔各位委員報告齁這個情資可能包括中共的全面的軍事動態路\n兩岸這個情勢大家大概觀察兩個很重要一個就是培諾西來台訪問之後看起來台海那個中線不見了\n對,模糊化了嘛,對不對那最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情第一就是你們下令交通部要禁止那個入客的那個組團組團到大陸去這個我們沒有下令等一下我們好好討論一下剛才你們在想說你們\n一直開會嗎?開了好幾次會嗎?這等一下我們好好討論好不好?我先把情勢講清楚這兩件事這幾件對不對?禁止這個組團到大陸去然後呢金門這個碰撞這個翻船事件到現在都沒有了這兩個事情如果很具體去看我知道說的裴若曦、賴義豪\n中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後\n所以局長你那個情勢有點\n斷斷續續對不對不是斷斷續續是動態的在觀察之前他來了很多然後現在有點平和有點平和跟最近應該在開兩會有關係吧都有關係對不對對都有那應該還要注意開完兩會之後可能有沒有在升高他再來現在我們擔心的是你看他現在來了海警船連三千噸級的都來了他等於是派軍隊來了嘛\n對不對?他等於派軍隊來的嘛我們現在這些小蝦米撞到大鯨魚這是一個大的問題第二個他如果常常來尤其兩會之後他又常常來金門那個縣縣建制其實那個整個海域可能就是真的會受到影響你有沒有做一個比較你剛剛一直在講\n對,所以我們對後續的一個觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示後續有沒有一些常態化的動作這個是我們要關注的重點當然我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況\n對這是有必要的局長我今天特別跑來質詢是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的一個時機點老蔣也是個最危險的時機點同不同意對我們要保持高度的警戒的一個關鍵的時機點沒有錯保持高度警戒高度的警戒我就要先問阿你之前我剛講那兩個重要的事件裡面\n國安局做了怎麼樣的一個建議你剛才承認說一直在開會嘛不管是你去或者是派人去國安單位這兩個事情現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸的二一螺旋一直在往上走嘛\n國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼就國安單位來講我再次強調對於夜館政府機關他對於要不要開放相關的團客的規劃他有他的期程這個我們尊重但是就國安局的立場來講我們會針對中共的整體對台政策以及他對台灣的各種的壓拉的手法也會做整體的分析讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握這是我們的職責你們中和評估過了所以你給了\n所謂的其他的相關的部位作為一個建議事實上對我們來看可能不是建議啦如果你們沒有點頭的話我這個進團念也不會成啦\n包括這個金門這個碰撞這個翻船這個事件如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見其他的包括海巡我相信也不會是這樣的動作沒有國安局是政府團隊的議員那決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度讓各單位一起來討論局長你們非常重要所以我才要很明確的問到底在這兩個事件裡面你們沒有給了什麼很明確的指令或者很明確重要的這個指示\n有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考如果因為這兩個事件處理不好導致整個惡意螺旋往上走大家第一個想到還是國安局啊\n國安局跟陸委會所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見你到目前沒有給我答案喔對阿那內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露這我背負著國家機密情報的等級這是機密嗎至少就說怎麼處理這應該是國人要知道的啦國人要不要睡得著就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能讓我們處理得很好讓我們睡得著覺阿目前看起來就是二一螺旋一直在往上走阿\n國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望它繼續...當然當然這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高是我們國安單位重中之重的責任局長我講一個比較重的話好請你期待是兩岸和平當然每一個人都期待兩岸和平你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來對可是你看現在看到的狀況是什麼\n國防部長講,國防部長講,睡不著覺了。第二個,你從很實際的狀況去分析,現在確實兩岸是緊繃的嘛。連一個金門的撞船,我們不要講撞船啦,碰撞好了,翻船這個事件,到現在都沒有了啊。現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情啊,欸為什麼要打自己的旅行社?M503有因為你做了這個決定,國安局做了這個決定,或者是我們整體政府做了這個決定,M503現在有改變嗎?\n有改變嗎我還是說明一下那個國防部的部分他基於他的職責然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應這是國防部的權責那我們也尊重邱部長對外的一個發言以及表述他的一個心境心緒這個我們都予以尊重但是就情報單位來講我們重視的還是要有情資我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣那我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資局長\n這兩個重要的事件,第一個你是在抗議他的M503嘛,對不對?現在這個事情有因為我們做的這個動作有改變嗎?沒有,對不對?第二個,你說他們的團不來,這個有改變嗎?也沒有。然後呢,兩岸的二一樓前一直往上走,這跟你本來希望兩岸的和平降溫,達到的效果是相反的耶。\n整體各部會都還是有一個相關的評估啦那兩岸的互動他是一個動態的過程那老實講臺海情勢穩定對於各方包括對岸來講都是符合他的利益的老實講我老實跟委員報告過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管這我們還是有相關的情質局長我要提醒的是我看到新聞是說從顧立雄到你你們國安團隊是留下來了可能要恭喜你們可是我剛才提醒了光是最近這兩件重大的事情\n520之前是一個最敏感可能也是最危險的時候國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺有沒有什麼因應措施有沒有準備好\n對,就這個部分來講,我們國安團隊,國安局這邊指導統合協調有11個情報單位跟4同情報單位,我們會嚴密的來關注中國大陸內部的還有對外的行為的動態。第二個,我們也會跟國際的友盟來加強相關的情資交流,判斷中共的一個相關的意圖跟可能的威脅台灣的動作。局長,我們能稍微具體一點點,你看那天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一級飛機的這個事情。\n我今天問你更具體一點點你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張這個關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態說萬一有一個擦槍走火我們怎麼應應?對我剛剛也跟其他委員有說明過啦對於可能台海可能出現了各種的劇本那各種的劇本它會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的一個預應的方案特別接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟台灣應處的機制\n謝謝局長,我拜託一件事情,就是回去檢討一下為什麼這兩個事情是這樣的一個處理\n處理到目前為止M503這個問題還是在的陸團他們沒有組團來然後兩岸是整個敵意是上升的這是第一個點拜託一下想像一下不要這個國安團隊留下來了結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的沒有和平然後看起來兩岸還是衝突二一螺旋一直在往上走第二個五二零之前各種狀況都有一定要做好稅要準備讓我們跟稅務長好不好對對好謝委員維承和平是我們第一優先的任務謝委員提醒謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.490 --> 00:25.426\n抱歉抱歉我不是插話啦我說你要不要邀那個趙春山來聊一下瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情對各種的意見我們都會很重視對現在2比1欸現在國防部長跟趙孫山兩個阿你是一票啦現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺沒有我想就情報機關來講我們重視的還是情資啦以情資啦喔各位委員報告齁這個情資可能包括中共的全面的軍事動態路\n\n00:26.687 --> 00:30.849\n兩岸這個情勢大家大概觀察兩個很重要一個就是培諾西來台訪問之後看起來台海那個中線不見了\n\n00:47.318 --> 01:00.375\n對,模糊化了嘛,對不對那最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情第一就是你們下令交通部要禁止那個入客的那個組團組團到大陸去這個我們沒有下令等一下我們好好討論一下剛才你們在想說你們\n\n01:01.977 --> 01:19.053\n一直開會嗎?開了好幾次會嗎?這等一下我們好好討論好不好?我先把情勢講清楚這兩件事這幾件對不對?禁止這個組團到大陸去然後呢金門這個碰撞這個翻船事件到現在都沒有了這兩個事情如果很具體去看我知道說的裴若曦、賴義豪\n\n01:20.333 --> 01:22.755\n中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後\n\n01:37.688 --> 01:38.168\n所以局長你那個情勢有點\n\n02:00.951 --> 02:20.568\n斷斷續續對不對不是斷斷續續是動態的在觀察之前他來了很多然後現在有點平和有點平和跟最近應該在開兩會有關係吧都有關係對不對對都有那應該還要注意開完兩會之後可能有沒有在升高他再來現在我們擔心的是你看他現在來了海警船連三千噸級的都來了他等於是派軍隊來了嘛\n\n02:23.442 --> 02:38.135\n對不對?他等於派軍隊來的嘛我們現在這些小蝦米撞到大鯨魚這是一個大的問題第二個他如果常常來尤其兩會之後他又常常來金門那個縣縣建制其實那個整個海域可能就是真的會受到影響你有沒有做一個比較你剛剛一直在講\n\n02:38.675 --> 02:44.121\n對,所以我們對後續的一個觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示後續有沒有一些常態化的動作這個是我們要關注的重點當然我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況\n\n02:58.176 --> 03:18.149\n對這是有必要的局長我今天特別跑來質詢是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的一個時機點老蔣也是個最危險的時機點同不同意對我們要保持高度的警戒的一個關鍵的時機點沒有錯保持高度警戒高度的警戒我就要先問阿你之前我剛講那兩個重要的事件裡面\n\n03:19.261 --> 03:30.006\n國安局做了怎麼樣的一個建議你剛才承認說一直在開會嘛不管是你去或者是派人去國安單位這兩個事情現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸的二一螺旋一直在往上走嘛\n\n03:30.954 --> 03:58.663\n國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼就國安單位來講我再次強調對於夜館政府機關他對於要不要開放相關的團客的規劃他有他的期程這個我們尊重但是就國安局的立場來講我們會針對中共的整體對台政策以及他對台灣的各種的壓拉的手法也會做整體的分析讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握這是我們的職責你們中和評估過了所以你給了\n\n03:59.523 --> 04:07.759\n所謂的其他的相關的部位作為一個建議事實上對我們來看可能不是建議啦如果你們沒有點頭的話我這個進團念也不會成啦\n\n04:09.058 --> 04:32.417\n包括這個金門這個碰撞這個翻船這個事件如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見其他的包括海巡我相信也不會是這樣的動作沒有國安局是政府團隊的議員那決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度讓各單位一起來討論局長你們非常重要所以我才要很明確的問到底在這兩個事件裡面你們沒有給了什麼很明確的指令或者很明確重要的這個指示\n\n04:32.697 --> 04:42.237\n有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考如果因為這兩個事件處理不好導致整個惡意螺旋往上走大家第一個想到還是國安局啊\n\n04:43.618 --> 05:06.304\n國安局跟陸委會所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見你到目前沒有給我答案喔對阿那內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露這我背負著國家機密情報的等級這是機密嗎至少就說怎麼處理這應該是國人要知道的啦國人要不要睡得著就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能讓我們處理得很好讓我們睡得著覺阿目前看起來就是二一螺旋一直在往上走阿\n\n05:06.864 --> 05:26.874\n國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望它繼續...當然當然這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高是我們國安單位重中之重的責任局長我講一個比較重的話好請你期待是兩岸和平當然每一個人都期待兩岸和平你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來對可是你看現在看到的狀況是什麼\n\n05:27.853 --> 05:54.935\n國防部長講,國防部長講,睡不著覺了。第二個,你從很實際的狀況去分析,現在確實兩岸是緊繃的嘛。連一個金門的撞船,我們不要講撞船啦,碰撞好了,翻船這個事件,到現在都沒有了啊。現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情啊,欸為什麼要打自己的旅行社?M503有因為你做了這個決定,國安局做了這個決定,或者是我們整體政府做了這個決定,M503現在有改變嗎?\n\n05:56.429 --> 06:22.043\n有改變嗎我還是說明一下那個國防部的部分他基於他的職責然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應這是國防部的權責那我們也尊重邱部長對外的一個發言以及表述他的一個心境心緒這個我們都予以尊重但是就情報單位來講我們重視的還是要有情資我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣那我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資局長\n\n06:23.924 --> 06:43.911\n這兩個重要的事件,第一個你是在抗議他的M503嘛,對不對?現在這個事情有因為我們做的這個動作有改變嗎?沒有,對不對?第二個,你說他們的團不來,這個有改變嗎?也沒有。然後呢,兩岸的二一樓前一直往上走,這跟你本來希望兩岸的和平降溫,達到的效果是相反的耶。\n\n06:45.602 --> 07:13.782\n整體各部會都還是有一個相關的評估啦那兩岸的互動他是一個動態的過程那老實講臺海情勢穩定對於各方包括對岸來講都是符合他的利益的老實講我老實跟委員報告過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管這我們還是有相關的情質局長我要提醒的是我看到新聞是說從顧立雄到你你們國安團隊是留下來了可能要恭喜你們可是我剛才提醒了光是最近這兩件重大的事情\n\n07:14.687 --> 07:20.189\n520之前是一個最敏感可能也是最危險的時候國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺有沒有什麼因應措施有沒有準備好\n\n07:39.194 --> 08:03.326\n對,就這個部分來講,我們國安團隊,國安局這邊指導統合協調有11個情報單位跟4同情報單位,我們會嚴密的來關注中國大陸內部的還有對外的行為的動態。第二個,我們也會跟國際的友盟來加強相關的情資交流,判斷中共的一個相關的意圖跟可能的威脅台灣的動作。局長,我們能稍微具體一點點,你看那天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一級飛機的這個事情。\n\n08:03.846 --> 08:31.568\n我今天問你更具體一點點你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張這個關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態說萬一有一個擦槍走火我們怎麼應應?對我剛剛也跟其他委員有說明過啦對於可能台海可能出現了各種的劇本那各種的劇本它會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的一個預應的方案特別接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟台灣應處的機制\n\n08:33.029 --> 08:34.750\n謝謝局長,我拜託一件事情,就是回去檢討一下為什麼這兩個事情是這樣的一個處理\n\n09:02.109 --> 09:27.091\n處理到目前為止M503這個問題還是在的陸團他們沒有組團來然後兩岸是整個敵意是上升的這是第一個點拜託一下想像一下不要這個國安團隊留下來了結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的沒有和平然後看起來兩岸還是衝突二一螺旋一直在往上走第二個五二零之前各種狀況都有一定要做好稅要準備讓我們跟稅務長好不好對對好謝委員維承和平是我們第一優先的任務謝委員提醒謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.49,"end":25.426,"text":"抱歉抱歉我不是插話啦我說你要不要邀那個趙春山來聊一下瞭解一下他去大陸到底問到什麼事情對各種的意見我們都會很重視對現在2比1欸現在國防部長跟趙孫山兩個阿你是一票啦現在民眾到底能不能好好睡覺沒有我想就情報機關來講我們重視的還是情資啦以情資啦喔各位委員報告齁這個情資可能包括中共的全面的軍事動態路"},{"start":26.687,"end":30.849,"text":"兩岸這個情勢大家大概觀察兩個很重要一個就是培諾西來台訪問之後看起來台海那個中線不見了"},{"start":47.318,"end":60.375,"text":"對,模糊化了嘛,對不對那最近從過年到現在有兩個大的事情第一就是你們下令交通部要禁止那個入客的那個組團組團到大陸去這個我們沒有下令等一下我們好好討論一下剛才你們在想說你們"},{"start":61.977,"end":79.053,"text":"一直開會嗎?開了好幾次會嗎?這等一下我們好好討論好不好?我先把情勢講清楚這兩件事這幾件對不對?禁止這個組團到大陸去然後呢金門這個碰撞這個翻船事件到現在都沒有了這兩個事情如果很具體去看我知道說的裴若曦、賴義豪"},{"start":80.333,"end":82.755,"text":"中國當然有希望做這樣的操作但我剛也有跟其他委員做說明從2月14號的事件發生之後"},{"start":97.688,"end":98.168,"text":"所以局長你那個情勢有點"},{"start":120.951,"end":140.568,"text":"斷斷續續對不對不是斷斷續續是動態的在觀察之前他來了很多然後現在有點平和有點平和跟最近應該在開兩會有關係吧都有關係對不對對都有那應該還要注意開完兩會之後可能有沒有在升高他再來現在我們擔心的是你看他現在來了海警船連三千噸級的都來了他等於是派軍隊來了嘛"},{"start":143.442,"end":158.135,"text":"對不對?他等於派軍隊來的嘛我們現在這些小蝦米撞到大鯨魚這是一個大的問題第二個他如果常常來尤其兩會之後他又常常來金門那個縣縣建制其實那個整個海域可能就是真的會受到影響你有沒有做一個比較你剛剛一直在講"},{"start":158.675,"end":164.121,"text":"對,所以我們對後續的一個觀察重點就在於中共所做的政策宣示後續有沒有一些常態化的動作這個是我們要關注的重點當然我們會做最壞的想定來因應各種可能的狀況"},{"start":178.176,"end":198.149,"text":"對這是有必要的局長我今天特別跑來質詢是因為兩會完之後一直到520是一個最敏感的一個時機點老蔣也是個最危險的時機點同不同意對我們要保持高度的警戒的一個關鍵的時機點沒有錯保持高度警戒高度的警戒我就要先問阿你之前我剛講那兩個重要的事件裡面"},{"start":199.261,"end":210.006,"text":"國安局做了怎麼樣的一個建議你剛才承認說一直在開會嘛不管是你去或者是派人去國安單位這兩個事情現在看起來這兩個事件導致的結果就是兩岸的二一螺旋一直在往上走嘛"},{"start":210.954,"end":238.663,"text":"國安局對這兩個事件當初的建議是什麼就國安單位來講我再次強調對於夜館政府機關他對於要不要開放相關的團客的規劃他有他的期程這個我們尊重但是就國安局的立場來講我們會針對中共的整體對台政策以及他對台灣的各種的壓拉的手法也會做整體的分析讓決策單位在評估的時候可以有一個比較全貌的瞭解跟掌握這是我們的職責你們中和評估過了所以你給了"},{"start":239.523,"end":247.759,"text":"所謂的其他的相關的部位作為一個建議事實上對我們來看可能不是建議啦如果你們沒有點頭的話我這個進團念也不會成啦"},{"start":249.058,"end":272.417,"text":"包括這個金門這個碰撞這個翻船這個事件如果不是國安局有不一樣的意見其他的包括海巡我相信也不會是這樣的動作沒有國安局是政府團隊的議員那決策過程當中會提出我們在國安情報上面的角度讓各單位一起來討論局長你們非常重要所以我才要很明確的問到底在這兩個事件裡面你們沒有給了什麼很明確的指令或者很明確重要的這個指示"},{"start":272.697,"end":282.237,"text":"有提供相關的分析給各單位來做整體的參考如果因為這兩個事件處理不好導致整個惡意螺旋往上走大家第一個想到還是國安局啊"},{"start":283.618,"end":306.304,"text":"國安局跟陸委會所以我要很明確知道國安局給了什麼意見你到目前沒有給我答案喔對阿那內部的開會我們沒有辦法對外揭露這我背負著國家機密情報的等級這是機密嗎至少就說怎麼處理這應該是國人要知道的啦國人要不要睡得著就是在判斷國安局長跟整個國安單位能不能讓我們處理得很好讓我們睡得著覺阿目前看起來就是二一螺旋一直在往上走阿"},{"start":306.864,"end":326.874,"text":"國安局到底希望兩岸關係是平和的還是希望它繼續...當然當然這也是剛剛跟其他委員報告的怎麼樣來防止兩岸的情勢升高是我們國安單位重中之重的責任局長我講一個比較重的話好請你期待是兩岸和平當然每一個人都期待兩岸和平你剛剛講你最大的責任就是兩岸不要打起來對可是你看現在看到的狀況是什麼"},{"start":327.853,"end":354.935,"text":"國防部長講,國防部長講,睡不著覺了。第二個,你從很實際的狀況去分析,現在確實兩岸是緊繃的嘛。連一個金門的撞船,我們不要講撞船啦,碰撞好了,翻船這個事件,到現在都沒有了啊。現在旅行社還有很多人來陳情啊,欸為什麼要打自己的旅行社?M503有因為你做了這個決定,國安局做了這個決定,或者是我們整體政府做了這個決定,M503現在有改變嗎?"},{"start":356.429,"end":382.043,"text":"有改變嗎我還是說明一下那個國防部的部分他基於他的職責然後把相關的情況做最壞的想定跟預應這是國防部的權責那我們也尊重邱部長對外的一個發言以及表述他的一個心境心緒這個我們都予以尊重但是就情報單位來講我們重視的還是要有情資我才能夠跟委員報告現在的狀況是怎麼樣那我跟委員說明的情況就是依照目前的情資局長"},{"start":383.924,"end":403.911,"text":"這兩個重要的事件,第一個你是在抗議他的M503嘛,對不對?現在這個事情有因為我們做的這個動作有改變嗎?沒有,對不對?第二個,你說他們的團不來,這個有改變嗎?也沒有。然後呢,兩岸的二一樓前一直往上走,這跟你本來希望兩岸的和平降溫,達到的效果是相反的耶。"},{"start":405.602,"end":433.782,"text":"整體各部會都還是有一個相關的評估啦那兩岸的互動他是一個動態的過程那老實講臺海情勢穩定對於各方包括對岸來講都是符合他的利益的老實講我老實跟委員報告過程當中我們還是有看到對岸在做一些風險的控管這我們還是有相關的情質局長我要提醒的是我看到新聞是說從顧立雄到你你們國安團隊是留下來了可能要恭喜你們可是我剛才提醒了光是最近這兩件重大的事情"},{"start":434.687,"end":440.189,"text":"520之前是一個最敏感可能也是最危險的時候國安局怎麼確保讓我們睡得著覺有沒有什麼因應措施有沒有準備好"},{"start":459.194,"end":483.326,"text":"對,就這個部分來講,我們國安團隊,國安局這邊指導統合協調有11個情報單位跟4同情報單位,我們會嚴密的來關注中國大陸內部的還有對外的行為的動態。第二個,我們也會跟國際的友盟來加強相關的情資交流,判斷中共的一個相關的意圖跟可能的威脅台灣的動作。局長,我們能稍微具體一點點,你看那天他們在問國防部長都已經講到第一級飛機的這個事情。"},{"start":483.846,"end":511.568,"text":"我今天問你更具體一點點你們有沒有設想過現在兩岸緊張這個關係已經進入到準戰爭的狀態說萬一有一個擦槍走火我們怎麼應應?對我剛剛也跟其他委員有說明過啦對於可能台海可能出現了各種的劇本那各種的劇本它會因為不同的環境跟因素產生不同的劇本這個部分國安團隊跟國防部都有做相關的一個預應的方案特別接下來的漢光演習就是要去推演相關的劇本跟台灣應處的機制"},{"start":513.029,"end":514.75,"text":"謝謝局長,我拜託一件事情,就是回去檢討一下為什麼這兩個事情是這樣的一個處理"},{"start":542.109,"end":567.091,"text":"處理到目前為止M503這個問題還是在的陸團他們沒有組團來然後兩岸是整個敵意是上升的這是第一個點拜託一下想像一下不要這個國安團隊留下來了結果讓人民還是提心吊膽的沒有和平然後看起來兩岸還是衝突二一螺旋一直在往上走第二個五二零之前各種狀況都有一定要做好稅要準備讓我們跟稅務長好不好對對好謝委員維承和平是我們第一優先的任務謝委員提醒謝謝"}]}}}}