{"id":149683,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149683","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300b97b8deea1198e1daea18303c979697ef8ba9b0039caa7a6f4d63c271f6545ab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:30:17 - 11:38:40","影片長度":"00:08:23","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-5"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":503,"end_time":"2024-03-11T11:38:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T11:30:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":978,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時30分）邀請秘書長。"],["主席：有請李秘書長。"],["李秘書長俊俋：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：秘書長，你應該是很有power，所以擔任秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為，本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題，本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡也提到已有監察委員申請自動調查。食安辦在上個禮拜五的行政院記者會也表示，蘇丹紅和咖啡、茶的致癌風險是同等級，呼籲民眾不要太緊張，這個說法等於讓外界、民眾炸鍋。蘇丹紅所造成的食安風暴，到底有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心？民眾現在非常焦慮。請教秘書長，目前主管機關對於食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了？民眾尤其是我們這些媽媽都認為到哪裡吃都不放心，甚至摻了辣椒我都會緊張。在這樣的情況之下，報告如果出來對國人的食品安全、消費環境當然會有很重大的影響，所以本席要請教監察院的後續作為到底是什麼？因為這已經嚴重影響到所有民眾，新聞媒體每一天都在報，而且連環爆，甚至地點，甚至整個都有脈動，在媒體上面也披露這麼清楚，我們的監察院到底可以怎麼協助民眾安心？你們要有所作為。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝楊委員，跟楊委員報告，蘇丹紅的案子目前已經立案調查，至於前面有關食安的部分，我剛剛已經說明過了，其實有關食安的部分，我們查過食品，也查過食品安全會報、查過食安五環，這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論，報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請行政院積極改善當中，但是監察院是獨立機關、單位，也是整個政府最高的督導、監督單位，如果只有請行政院……"],["李秘書長俊俋：我們只查違法失職，所以有些部分我們的委員認為要求行政院改善，行政院改善還要提到監察院報告，目前我們還在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：他們多久會提來？"],["李秘書長俊俋：要看各個案子，各個案子不一樣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮。"],["李秘書長俊俋：我知道。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：他們多久會提來？它如果不提，你有什麼作為呢？"],["李秘書長俊俋：這個要看委員的調查內容，這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是因為如此，所以我們來討論，根據監察院統計2023年核派調查的案件共317件，自動調查包括這一件……"],["李秘書長俊俋：這件是2024年。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我是指自動調查，像這次的蘇丹紅事件是監察委員自動調查。"],["李秘書長俊俋：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：類似像這樣的樣態，你們去年自動調查了195件，委員會決議要調查的是110件，院派調查的是12件。在這樣情況之下，如果扣除正、副院長，其餘我們還有27位的監委，對這些案件一個人是調查不到一案。當然監察院提出彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的基礎是必要的，也授予此權責。秘書長，但是我們看到像剛剛已經引起民眾廣泛性的疑慮，到現在這麼久，只能請行政院來改善之，也不知道有沒有約束力，什麼時候它要提回來？後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導？所以有人質疑我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢？是不是跟考試院一樣，必須要減少人數。當然本席也不希望因為數量去影響整個組織，本席希望是符合人民所需要的，監察院是人民最高的監督單位，應該是有牙齒的老虎，而不是只有改善之，這樣子對人民是不公平的，所以本席要請教，你要怎麼樣去提升績效？"],["李秘書長俊俋：是。我跟楊委員報告，我剛剛已經說明很清楚了，我們不能以案件數來看。如果要用案件數來看，其實我們有彈劾、糾舉、糾正跟調查報告，還有函請各機關改善，函請各機關改善之後，我們甚至可以利用質問，就是回來再報告相關的情形，然後看質問滿不滿意，不滿意的話，我們還可以進行後續的動作，這個是第一個部分。第二個部分，剛剛提到監察委員人數的減少，監察委員的人數是寫在憲法裡面，考試院是寫在考試院組織法裡面，所以它的層次不同；過去修考試院組織法是用考試院組織法來修，所以人數可以下降，監察院恐怕要修憲。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：您是秘書長，外界有這個質疑，表示他認為成效是不彰的、是有所疑慮的，所以我們要提出來，至於是哪一種方式，總是有方法，只是人民所需要的是真正能夠監督。誠如你剛才說的，到目前為止，監察院扮演這個角色超過90年，但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎，如你剛才說的，即使通過彈劾案，那要發動制裁的權限，到最後是沒有懲戒權，同時要不要制裁、制裁的內容到底是如何，監察院可以決定嗎？接下來我們還要問，即使對行政部門、機關所通過的糾正案，你能夠請他們要注意、要改善。所以本席希望的是當你們依照目前的權限在做，人民似乎認為是不足的，不足的有兩個地方，也就是你們的權力不夠；第二個，最重要，在整個過程當中，你可以如何調整腳步，這是本席今天跟你討論、我們必須要瞭解的。"],["李秘書長俊俋：謝謝楊委員，我很快跟楊委員說明一下。"],["主席：謝謝，請簡短回答，時間到了。"],["李秘書長俊俋：懲戒權的權力是在司法院的懲戒法院，不在監察院，我們彈劾以後還要送……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，所以本席告訴你，當你這個沒有、那個也沒有，難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒的老虎！"],["李秘書長俊俋：憲法的設計是如此，我們只能依照憲法的設計來處理，這是憲法賦予監察院針對公務員的違法失職來處理，至於違法失職我們查出來以後，包括彈劾，我們仍然要送懲戒法院，由懲戒法院來決定其懲戒的方式。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然。對整個流程本席也要求你們去討論，因為人民對於你們的授權……"],["李秘書長俊俋：涉及修憲的部分要立法院討論，我們沒有辦法，我們沒有這種職權。"],["主席：好，謝謝。因為時間的關係，是不是謝謝楊委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個結論，人民所需要的是能有效能，當整個效能產生不出來的時候，對整個制度結構也必須去討論，才能夠真正得到民眾所需，本席也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎，人民有疑慮，我們國家任何一個機關當然要好好地去檢討，讓我們的民眾能夠沒有疑慮、安定生活，對不對？"],["主席：好，謝謝楊委員的結論、謝謝李秘書長。","接下來有請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","有請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","有請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","有請高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在。","有請蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會，謝謝大家。","散會（11時39分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-5","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","陳俊宇","羅智強","傅崐萁","林思銘","吳宗憲","謝龍介","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,178 --> 00:00:34,878\n秘書長你應該是很有power所以當然秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為所以本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題那本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡頭也提出了已有監察委員申請自動調查\n\n2\n00:00:38,581 --> 00:00:59,716\n實安辦在上個禮拜五行政院記者會也表示蘇丹紅跟咖啡跟茶的致癌風險是同等級呼籲民眾不要太緊張這個說法讓外界讓民眾等於是炸鍋蘇丹紅所造成的實安風暴到底\n\n3\n00:01:00,416 --> 00:01:24,342\n有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心民眾現在非常的焦慮非常的焦慮所以請教秘書長目前對於主管機關對食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了民眾尤其我們這些媽媽說我到哪裡吃我都不放心我真的是摻了一個這個辣椒我都會緊張在這樣的情況之下\n\n4\n00:01:27,123 --> 00:01:48,091\n報告如果出來對這個國安的國人的這個食品安全呢他消費環境他當然會有很重大的一個影響所以本期要請教監察院你的後續作為到底是什麼呢因為這已經嚴重的影響到整個民眾新聞媒體每一天都在報而且連環報\n\n5\n00:01:49,611 --> 00:01:50,371\n蘇丹紅案已立案調查\n\n6\n00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:26,470\n那至於說前面的有關食安的部分我剛才已經說明過了其實有關食安的部分我們查過食品、查過食品安全匯報、查過食安五環這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論那報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中\n\n7\n00:02:27,554 --> 00:02:27,934\n他們多久會提來?\n\n8\n00:02:53,290 --> 00:03:07,541\n因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮耶你知道那他們多久會提來他如果不提呢你有什麼作為呢這個要看委員的調查的內容這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中\n\n9\n00:03:09,212 --> 00:03:13,654\n就是因為如此所以我們來討論根據監察院統計2023年合派調查的案件總共317件那你自動調查包括這一件這件是2024年\n\n10\n00:03:25,498 --> 00:03:28,259\n委員會決議的要調查的110案件你院派調查是12件在這樣情況之下如果扣除政府院長扣除政府院長那其餘我們還有27位的監委\n\n11\n00:03:54,645 --> 00:04:20,481\n那一個人這些案件那是調查不到一案那監察院提出的彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的這個基礎這是必要的也授予這個權責但是我們看到秘書長像如果剛剛已經引起民眾﹐廣泛性的疑慮這麼久到現在那麼我們只有\n\n12\n00:04:22,041 --> 00:04:43,828\n請行政院來改善之那也不知有沒有約束什麼時候他要提回來我們的後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導所以有人質疑喔那我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢是不是跟考試院一樣必須要減少人數當然本席也不希望因為數量\n\n13\n00:04:51,735 --> 00:04:59,884\n監察院是人民最高的監督單位應該是有牙齒的老虎而不是只有改善之\n\n14\n00:05:01,065 --> 00:05:25,280\n這樣子對人民是不公平的是不公平的喔所以本需要請教你要怎麼樣去提升這些的績效是我跟楊委員報告齁我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們不能以案件數來看那如果要用案件數來看其實我們有彈劾糾舉糾正跟調查報告齁還有含情各機關改善含情各機關改善之後我們甚至可以用質問就是\n\n15\n00:05:25,660 --> 00:05:25,820\n怎麼這個方式\n\n16\n00:05:53,371 --> 00:06:13,597\n您是秘書長外界有這個質疑表示他認為成效是不彰的是有所疑慮的所以我們要提出來至於哪一種方式總是有方法只是我們人民所需要的是真正能夠監督就陳如你剛才說的我們監察院到目前為止扮演這個角色超過90年\n\n17\n00:06:15,077 --> 00:06:34,908\n但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎你剛才說的我們即使通過彈劾案那你要發動的制裁的權限你到最後是沒有懲戒權那同時要不要制裁制裁的內容到底是如何監察院你可以決定嗎那接下來我們還要問\n\n18\n00:06:36,349 --> 00:06:37,430\n本席今天跟你討論我們必須要了解的\n\n19\n00:07:06,329 --> 00:07:09,194\n懲戒權的權利是在司法院的懲戒法院不在監察院當然所以本席告訴你你這個也沒有那個沒有難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒\n\n20\n00:07:21,411 --> 00:07:23,633\n所以在整個流程本席也要求你們去討論因為人民對於你們的授權\n\n21\n00:07:44,572 --> 00:08:10,001\n這集修憲的部分要立法院討論我們沒有辦法因為在人民所需要一個結論人民所需要的是能夠有效能那整個效能產生不出的時候在整個制度結構裡頭也必須去討論才能夠真正得到民眾所需我本身也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎那人民有疑慮\n\n22\n00:08:11,294 --> 00:08:11,414\n李秘書長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3524\t12858\t楊瓊瓔\n14178\t34878\t秘書長你應該是很有power所以當然秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為所以本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題那本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡頭也提出了已有監察委員申請自動調查\n38581\t59716\t實安辦在上個禮拜五行政院記者會也表示蘇丹紅跟咖啡跟茶的致癌風險是同等級呼籲民眾不要太緊張這個說法讓外界讓民眾等於是炸鍋蘇丹紅所造成的實安風暴到底\n60416\t84342\t有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心民眾現在非常的焦慮非常的焦慮所以請教秘書長目前對於主管機關對食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了民眾尤其我們這些媽媽說我到哪裡吃我都不放心我真的是摻了一個這個辣椒我都會緊張在這樣的情況之下\n87123\t108091\t報告如果出來對這個國安的國人的這個食品安全呢他消費環境他當然會有很重大的一個影響所以本期要請教監察院你的後續作為到底是什麼呢因為這已經嚴重的影響到整個民眾新聞媒體每一天都在報而且連環報\n109611\t110371\t蘇丹紅案已立案調查\n130720\t146470\t那至於說前面的有關食安的部分我剛才已經說明過了其實有關食安的部分我們查過食品、查過食品安全匯報、查過食安五環這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論那報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中\n147554\t147934\t他們多久會提來?\n173290\t187541\t因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮耶你知道那他們多久會提來他如果不提呢你有什麼作為呢這個要看委員的調查的內容這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中\n189212\t193654\t就是因為如此所以我們來討論根據監察院統計2023年合派調查的案件總共317件那你自動調查包括這一件這件是2024年\n205498\t208259\t委員會決議的要調查的110案件你院派調查是12件在這樣情況之下如果扣除政府院長扣除政府院長那其餘我們還有27位的監委\n234645\t260481\t那一個人這些案件那是調查不到一案那監察院提出的彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的這個基礎這是必要的也授予這個權責但是我們看到秘書長像如果剛剛已經引起民眾﹐廣泛性的疑慮這麼久到現在那麼我們只有\n262041\t283828\t請行政院來改善之那也不知有沒有約束什麼時候他要提回來我們的後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導所以有人質疑喔那我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢是不是跟考試院一樣必須要減少人數當然本席也不希望因為數量\n291735\t299884\t監察院是人民最高的監督單位應該是有牙齒的老虎而不是只有改善之\n301065\t325280\t這樣子對人民是不公平的是不公平的喔所以本需要請教你要怎麼樣去提升這些的績效是我跟楊委員報告齁我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們不能以案件數來看那如果要用案件數來看其實我們有彈劾糾舉糾正跟調查報告齁還有含情各機關改善含情各機關改善之後我們甚至可以用質問就是\n325660\t325820\t怎麼這個方式\n353371\t373597\t您是秘書長外界有這個質疑表示他認為成效是不彰的是有所疑慮的所以我們要提出來至於哪一種方式總是有方法只是我們人民所需要的是真正能夠監督就陳如你剛才說的我們監察院到目前為止扮演這個角色超過90年\n375077\t394908\t但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎你剛才說的我們即使通過彈劾案那你要發動的制裁的權限你到最後是沒有懲戒權那同時要不要制裁制裁的內容到底是如何監察院你可以決定嗎那接下來我們還要問\n396349\t397430\t本席今天跟你討論我們必須要了解的\n426329\t429194\t懲戒權的權利是在司法院的懲戒法院不在監察院當然所以本席告訴你你這個也沒有那個沒有難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒\n441411\t443633\t所以在整個流程本席也要求你們去討論因為人民對於你們的授權\n464572\t490001\t這集修憲的部分要立法院討論我們沒有辦法因為在人民所需要一個結論人民所需要的是能夠有效能那整個效能產生不出的時候在整個制度結構裡頭也必須去討論才能夠真正得到民眾所需我本身也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎那人民有疑慮\n491294\t491414\t李秘書長\n","txt":"楊瓊瓔\n秘書長你應該是很有power所以當然秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為所以本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題那本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡頭也提出了已有監察委員申請自動調查\n實安辦在上個禮拜五行政院記者會也表示蘇丹紅跟咖啡跟茶的致癌風險是同等級呼籲民眾不要太緊張這個說法讓外界讓民眾等於是炸鍋蘇丹紅所造成的實安風暴到底\n有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心民眾現在非常的焦慮非常的焦慮所以請教秘書長目前對於主管機關對食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了民眾尤其我們這些媽媽說我到哪裡吃我都不放心我真的是摻了一個這個辣椒我都會緊張在這樣的情況之下\n報告如果出來對這個國安的國人的這個食品安全呢他消費環境他當然會有很重大的一個影響所以本期要請教監察院你的後續作為到底是什麼呢因為這已經嚴重的影響到整個民眾新聞媒體每一天都在報而且連環報\n蘇丹紅案已立案調查\n那至於說前面的有關食安的部分我剛才已經說明過了其實有關食安的部分我們查過食品、查過食品安全匯報、查過食安五環這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論那報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中\n他們多久會提來?\n因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮耶你知道那他們多久會提來他如果不提呢你有什麼作為呢這個要看委員的調查的內容這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中\n就是因為如此所以我們來討論根據監察院統計2023年合派調查的案件總共317件那你自動調查包括這一件這件是2024年\n委員會決議的要調查的110案件你院派調查是12件在這樣情況之下如果扣除政府院長扣除政府院長那其餘我們還有27位的監委\n那一個人這些案件那是調查不到一案那監察院提出的彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的這個基礎這是必要的也授予這個權責但是我們看到秘書長像如果剛剛已經引起民眾﹐廣泛性的疑慮這麼久到現在那麼我們只有\n請行政院來改善之那也不知有沒有約束什麼時候他要提回來我們的後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導所以有人質疑喔那我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢是不是跟考試院一樣必須要減少人數當然本席也不希望因為數量\n監察院是人民最高的監督單位應該是有牙齒的老虎而不是只有改善之\n這樣子對人民是不公平的是不公平的喔所以本需要請教你要怎麼樣去提升這些的績效是我跟楊委員報告齁我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們不能以案件數來看那如果要用案件數來看其實我們有彈劾糾舉糾正跟調查報告齁還有含情各機關改善含情各機關改善之後我們甚至可以用質問就是\n怎麼這個方式\n您是秘書長外界有這個質疑表示他認為成效是不彰的是有所疑慮的所以我們要提出來至於哪一種方式總是有方法只是我們人民所需要的是真正能夠監督就陳如你剛才說的我們監察院到目前為止扮演這個角色超過90年\n但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎你剛才說的我們即使通過彈劾案那你要發動的制裁的權限你到最後是沒有懲戒權那同時要不要制裁制裁的內容到底是如何監察院你可以決定嗎那接下來我們還要問\n本席今天跟你討論我們必須要了解的\n懲戒權的權利是在司法院的懲戒法院不在監察院當然所以本席告訴你你這個也沒有那個沒有難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒\n所以在整個流程本席也要求你們去討論因為人民對於你們的授權\n這集修憲的部分要立法院討論我們沒有辦法因為在人民所需要一個結論人民所需要的是能夠有效能那整個效能產生不出的時候在整個制度結構裡頭也必須去討論才能夠真正得到民眾所需我本身也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎那人民有疑慮\n李秘書長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.178 --> 00:34.878\n秘書長你應該是很有power所以當然秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為所以本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題那本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡頭也提出了已有監察委員申請自動調查\n\n00:38.581 --> 00:59.716\n實安辦在上個禮拜五行政院記者會也表示蘇丹紅跟咖啡跟茶的致癌風險是同等級呼籲民眾不要太緊張這個說法讓外界讓民眾等於是炸鍋蘇丹紅所造成的實安風暴到底\n\n01:00.416 --> 01:24.342\n有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心民眾現在非常的焦慮非常的焦慮所以請教秘書長目前對於主管機關對食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了民眾尤其我們這些媽媽說我到哪裡吃我都不放心我真的是摻了一個這個辣椒我都會緊張在這樣的情況之下\n\n01:27.123 --> 01:48.091\n報告如果出來對這個國安的國人的這個食品安全呢他消費環境他當然會有很重大的一個影響所以本期要請教監察院你的後續作為到底是什麼呢因為這已經嚴重的影響到整個民眾新聞媒體每一天都在報而且連環報\n\n01:49.611 --> 01:50.371\n蘇丹紅案已立案調查\n\n02:10.720 --> 02:26.470\n那至於說前面的有關食安的部分我剛才已經說明過了其實有關食安的部分我們查過食品、查過食品安全匯報、查過食安五環這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論那報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中\n\n02:27.554 --> 02:27.934\n他們多久會提來?\n\n02:53.290 --> 03:07.541\n因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮耶你知道那他們多久會提來他如果不提呢你有什麼作為呢這個要看委員的調查的內容這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中\n\n03:09.212 --> 03:13.654\n就是因為如此所以我們來討論根據監察院統計2023年合派調查的案件總共317件那你自動調查包括這一件這件是2024年\n\n03:25.498 --> 03:28.259\n委員會決議的要調查的110案件你院派調查是12件在這樣情況之下如果扣除政府院長扣除政府院長那其餘我們還有27位的監委\n\n03:54.645 --> 04:20.481\n那一個人這些案件那是調查不到一案那監察院提出的彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的這個基礎這是必要的也授予這個權責但是我們看到秘書長像如果剛剛已經引起民眾﹐廣泛性的疑慮這麼久到現在那麼我們只有\n\n04:22.041 --> 04:43.828\n請行政院來改善之那也不知有沒有約束什麼時候他要提回來我們的後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導所以有人質疑喔那我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢是不是跟考試院一樣必須要減少人數當然本席也不希望因為數量\n\n04:51.735 --> 04:59.884\n監察院是人民最高的監督單位應該是有牙齒的老虎而不是只有改善之\n\n05:01.065 --> 05:25.280\n這樣子對人民是不公平的是不公平的喔所以本需要請教你要怎麼樣去提升這些的績效是我跟楊委員報告齁我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們不能以案件數來看那如果要用案件數來看其實我們有彈劾糾舉糾正跟調查報告齁還有含情各機關改善含情各機關改善之後我們甚至可以用質問就是\n\n05:25.660 --> 05:25.820\n怎麼這個方式\n\n05:53.371 --> 06:13.597\n您是秘書長外界有這個質疑表示他認為成效是不彰的是有所疑慮的所以我們要提出來至於哪一種方式總是有方法只是我們人民所需要的是真正能夠監督就陳如你剛才說的我們監察院到目前為止扮演這個角色超過90年\n\n06:15.077 --> 06:34.908\n但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎你剛才說的我們即使通過彈劾案那你要發動的制裁的權限你到最後是沒有懲戒權那同時要不要制裁制裁的內容到底是如何監察院你可以決定嗎那接下來我們還要問\n\n06:36.349 --> 06:37.430\n本席今天跟你討論我們必須要了解的\n\n07:06.329 --> 07:09.194\n懲戒權的權利是在司法院的懲戒法院不在監察院當然所以本席告訴你你這個也沒有那個沒有難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒\n\n07:21.411 --> 07:23.633\n所以在整個流程本席也要求你們去討論因為人民對於你們的授權\n\n07:44.572 --> 08:10.001\n這集修憲的部分要立法院討論我們沒有辦法因為在人民所需要一個結論人民所需要的是能夠有效能那整個效能產生不出的時候在整個制度結構裡頭也必須去討論才能夠真正得到民眾所需我本身也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎那人民有疑慮\n\n08:11.294 --> 08:11.414\n李秘書長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.524,"end":12.858,"text":"楊瓊瓔"},{"start":14.178,"end":34.878,"text":"秘書長你應該是很有power所以當然秘書長可能可以領軍有一些作為所以本席要跟你討論目前最夯的蘇丹紅辣椒原料的食安問題那本席看到在監察院的新聞稿裡頭也提出了已有監察委員申請自動調查"},{"start":38.581,"end":59.716,"text":"實安辦在上個禮拜五行政院記者會也表示蘇丹紅跟咖啡跟茶的致癌風險是同等級呼籲民眾不要太緊張這個說法讓外界讓民眾等於是炸鍋蘇丹紅所造成的實安風暴到底"},{"start":60.416,"end":84.342,"text":"有什麼可以讓民眾吃得安心民眾現在非常的焦慮非常的焦慮所以請教秘書長目前對於主管機關對食品業者的監督控管機制是不是真的失靈了民眾尤其我們這些媽媽說我到哪裡吃我都不放心我真的是摻了一個這個辣椒我都會緊張在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":87.123,"end":108.091,"text":"報告如果出來對這個國安的國人的這個食品安全呢他消費環境他當然會有很重大的一個影響所以本期要請教監察院你的後續作為到底是什麼呢因為這已經嚴重的影響到整個民眾新聞媒體每一天都在報而且連環報"},{"start":109.611,"end":110.371,"text":"蘇丹紅案已立案調查"},{"start":130.72,"end":146.47,"text":"那至於說前面的有關食安的部分我剛才已經說明過了其實有關食安的部分我們查過食品、查過食品安全匯報、查過食安五環這些都有相關的規定跟報告的結論那報告的結論都請行政院在積極改善當中"},{"start":147.554,"end":147.934,"text":"他們多久會提來?"},{"start":173.29,"end":187.541,"text":"因為現在所有的民眾都還是很疑慮耶你知道那他們多久會提來他如果不提呢你有什麼作為呢這個要看委員的調查的內容這些都會列為委員的調查內容之中"},{"start":189.212,"end":193.654,"text":"就是因為如此所以我們來討論根據監察院統計2023年合派調查的案件總共317件那你自動調查包括這一件這件是2024年"},{"start":205.498,"end":208.259,"text":"委員會決議的要調查的110案件你院派調查是12件在這樣情況之下如果扣除政府院長扣除政府院長那其餘我們還有27位的監委"},{"start":234.645,"end":260.481,"text":"那一個人這些案件那是調查不到一案那監察院提出的彈劾、糾舉、糾正案的這個基礎這是必要的也授予這個權責但是我們看到秘書長像如果剛剛已經引起民眾﹐廣泛性的疑慮這麼久到現在那麼我們只有"},{"start":262.041,"end":283.828,"text":"請行政院來改善之那也不知有沒有約束什麼時候他要提回來我們的後續究竟要怎麼樣去督導所以有人質疑喔那我們要這麼多監委幹什麼呢是不是跟考試院一樣必須要減少人數當然本席也不希望因為數量"},{"start":291.735,"end":299.884,"text":"監察院是人民最高的監督單位應該是有牙齒的老虎而不是只有改善之"},{"start":301.065,"end":325.28,"text":"這樣子對人民是不公平的是不公平的喔所以本需要請教你要怎麼樣去提升這些的績效是我跟楊委員報告齁我剛剛已經說明很清楚了我們不能以案件數來看那如果要用案件數來看其實我們有彈劾糾舉糾正跟調查報告齁還有含情各機關改善含情各機關改善之後我們甚至可以用質問就是"},{"start":325.66,"end":325.82,"text":"怎麼這個方式"},{"start":353.371,"end":373.597,"text":"您是秘書長外界有這個質疑表示他認為成效是不彰的是有所疑慮的所以我們要提出來至於哪一種方式總是有方法只是我們人民所需要的是真正能夠監督就陳如你剛才說的我們監察院到目前為止扮演這個角色超過90年"},{"start":375.077,"end":394.908,"text":"但是有人質疑是沒有牙齒的老虎你剛才說的我們即使通過彈劾案那你要發動的制裁的權限你到最後是沒有懲戒權那同時要不要制裁制裁的內容到底是如何監察院你可以決定嗎那接下來我們還要問"},{"start":396.349,"end":397.43,"text":"本席今天跟你討論我們必須要了解的"},{"start":426.329,"end":429.194,"text":"懲戒權的權利是在司法院的懲戒法院不在監察院當然所以本席告訴你你這個也沒有那個沒有難怪人家說你是沒有牙齒"},{"start":441.411,"end":443.633,"text":"所以在整個流程本席也要求你們去討論因為人民對於你們的授權"},{"start":464.572,"end":490.001,"text":"這集修憲的部分要立法院討論我們沒有辦法因為在人民所需要一個結論人民所需要的是能夠有效能那整個效能產生不出的時候在整個制度結構裡頭也必須去討論才能夠真正得到民眾所需我本身也不希望讓人家說監察院是一個沒有牙齒的老虎那人民有疑慮"},{"start":491.294,"end":491.414,"text":"李秘書長"}]}}}}