{"id":149704,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149704","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300fa7743ba70977bfb7e24220554cbe99af8ba9b0039caa7a6f8ee8e183dec96ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"12:42:32 - 12:50:46","影片長度":"00:08:14","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員陳耀祥就「廣電事業申設換照審查程序暨執行狀況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-3"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":494,"end_time":"2024-03-11T12:50:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T12:42:32+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1664,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時42分）謝謝主席，請陳主委。"],["主席：主委請。"],["張委員啓楷：主委你好。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名的開明派學者，可是你看，現在準備要回學校了，那麼多人在罵你。再當70天，可以好好把握一下。","我先提一個最重要的案子，好不好？對你來講，可能是現在心裡最大的痛吧！就是鏡電視這個申設案，大家一直都在傳，很多的傳聞是檢舉歷歷哦！說政治黑手進去嘛！那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他字案的瀆職罪被告，對不對？我先問你一下……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，他字案很容易，你剪個報告就會被……"],["張委員啓楷：檢方，對，所以我要問你嘛！北檢約談你了沒有？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：約談是沒有，但是有調查證物，有調查相關的證據。"],["張委員啓楷：調查中，調查到什麼程度？沒有約談，有問過你……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有。"],["張委員啓楷：要了資料嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：人的部分沒有約談，但是物的部分有調查證據，就是說相關的證據，我們的一些流程什麼，相關的這些證物它有調查。"],["張委員啓楷：所以已經在調查中嘛？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對，調查中。"],["張委員啓楷：那你這邊回應它的，解釋清楚了嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們的程序就是這樣子，我們相關的資料就是這樣處理，我們把這些審查過程的相關資料給檢察官。"],["張委員啓楷：其實為什麼要告你瀆職罪？就是說政治黑手伸進來，結果你在立法院……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：歹勢，我不知道……"],["張委員啓楷：歹勢，我講一下。你在立法院也承認你跟洪耀福碰了面，然後三董一監，大家也有意見，現在就是說指證歷歷很多事情……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是，我是說洪耀福我本人是認識。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，讓我說完，你等一下可以講，沒有問題。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：我是說證據那麼多，所以人家去檢舉，北檢才會把你列為被告嘛！是不是這樣？我的意思是說，指證歷歷的同時，你剛剛說你有回應了一些資料，對不對？你要說服我，還有說服全國民眾，說你是沒有問題的啊！是不是這樣？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！為什麼到目前為止還是他字案？如果真的有問題來講，早就改成偵字案了，所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題，並沒有任何剛才委員所講的弊端存在裡面。"],["張委員啓楷：是不是弊端，現在還在查就對了？已經有調了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個就是尊重檢調單位的調查，我們把相關資料給它。"],["張委員啓楷：還在調資料就對了？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個問題，可能也是你心裡的痛吧！我們蘇貞昌前院長直接講啊！說你最聽話啊！NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話？這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大的傷害，你都沒有抗議嗎？你都沒有抗議？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那是新聞報導裡面所寫的，我怎麼向院長抗議呢？因為那是新聞報導所寫，我可以拿新聞報導向院長抗議說是這樣的講法，我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說明嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：主委，今天給你機會，你對著全國的民眾講，這個事情是假的，不是真的，蘇院長講的是假的。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：蘇院長來講，從來沒有跟我講過任何像媒體報導的話語，也沒有講所謂的最聽話也好，或是命令我做什麼事情也好，沒有！我是依照我自己相關的法定程序跟職權去做事情。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，你覺得你有聽蘇院長的話嗎？大家就講政治……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這不是聽蘇院長的話。"],["張委員啓楷：你最聽話，政治黑手伸進來，你到底……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有，我們表示沒有辦法接受這樣的說法，就是說我們一個案子進來，它到底符不符合要申設的條件，這個不是只有我的部分，這個是經過好幾個程序，甚至於有相關的聽證或公聽的這些程序去處理的，我一個人沒辦法指揮這麼多人，說你一定要給它，不可能啦！"],["張委員啓楷：對啦！主委，歹勢，時間有限。我再請教你，有一個案子是三立入股中嘉案，對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是。"],["張委員啓楷：這個案子看起來也是很明確，你自己都承認嘛！對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：三立的大股東……"],["張委員啓楷：可是你的處理，我現在問一下，你的處理方式，你後來只有罰了這個系統業者1,440萬嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["張委員啓楷：你不覺得太輕了嗎？會不會太輕？這樣會不會有阻嚇的作用或者警惕的作用？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為法律上我們是裁處這個系統業者，因為什麼？我們現在的有線電視法裡面，對於其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講，法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定，我們現在為什麼廣電三法要修改？就是說以往我們都認為頻道沒有用到公家資源，沒有用到稀有、稀缺資源，所以自由嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，現在有兩個問題，第一個就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰得太輕，這是一個問題。第二個，當然我同意你剛才說的，你現在要罰三立罰不到，是法有問題。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！"],["張委員啓楷：可是人民會講不合理啊！一個是合不合理的問題，第二個是法，你現在還有70天嘛！本席會很明確地提出廣電三法的修法，包括你剛剛講的，因為現在法律不完整嘛！可是馬上提，包括有線電視，我們透過衛廣法的修法很清楚地明定，第一個，它的財務是要公開透明的；第二個，只要是持股5%以上的最終受益人，他本身就是要披露，有義務要公開披露的，包括接受政府的補助，本身都是要透明的。本席馬上就會提出這個法，你現在還有70天，你今天能不能允諾，做一個補破網的動作？1個月內，NCC這邊也提出一個修法，把它補起來。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們修法是有，跟委員報告，這個大方向基本上，我個人啦！我個人都是支持，但是問題是4月份馬上就要提名委員，我現在剩1個多月，你叫我1個月提出這麼重大的事情來。"],["張委員啓楷：當然是你下臺之前要做這件事情，這對你的名聲也好啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道、我知道，修法我們大概……"],["張委員啓楷：而且是補破網，你回去可以跟你的學生、跟全臺灣的民眾講，你去做了補破網的事情啊！因為這個不合理，沒有罰三立嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我知道，這個有……"],["張委員啓楷：如果是法的問題，趕快去把它補起來啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我當然儘快去處理，因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了，這個東西應該可以做。"],["張委員啓楷：我知道，所以你儘快是多久？你能不能給我一個答案？1個月太趕，1個半月？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為法案我們提出來，還要公聽，還有各界的意見，你說我1個月……"],["張委員啓楷：在你下臺之前，你回臺北大學之前，這個法案不能提？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情，我們是希望把這個東西訂好，像委員這個方向我們也是贊成，但是要把它訂好，比如說到底是哪些人要公開、公開到什麼範圍，這個是大家都可以討論的問題。"],["張委員啓楷：就剛剛那三個原則啊！很簡單啊！財務公開透明……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果說5%以上，如果說以最終受益人……"],["張委員啓楷：持股5%以上有義務要申報啊！公開透明啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果以我個人來講，我是支持。"],["張委員啓楷：接受政府補助的，這三個對你來講……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對、對、對，我支持啊！但是問題是……"],["張委員啓楷：你支持，這麼簡單的東西！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是啦！委員……"],["張委員啓楷：這個有很困難嗎？我的版本都已經擬好啦！我們最近就會提啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：立法，我們都是……"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉，主委，你能不能給我一個允諾？你下臺之前，你離開回臺北大學之前，廣電三法這個修法一定提出來，可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：草案……"],["張委員啓楷：還有70天耶！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這樣好不好？草案我們會提出來跟各界討論，這樣可以嗎？我們把草案提出來。我要送到立法院，我要……"],["張委員啓楷：你們之前就在討論了，你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚地提案啊！提到行政院去啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是，委員，我們立法，我提案要經過行政院，行政院再提送，哪有可能……"],["張委員啓楷：對啦！我是說至少在你離開回臺北大學之前，這70天，至少你的案子出門到行政院，可以嗎？來得及嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我希望可以朝這個方向去做。"],["張委員啓楷：要努力啦！要努力，這是為你好，為了我們臺灣好，要做啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好啦！但是我不敢向你承諾。"],["張委員啓楷：你要承諾。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：現在行政院也在看守階段嘛！到520就要就職，在那時候我也才剩一個多月而已，當然我是希望……"],["張委員啓楷：你還有70天啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，我希望可以朝這個方向去處理，但是我不敢跟你承諾說我離開以前，這個東西有沒有辦法送到行政院去，我希望是朝這個方向去走。"],["張委員啓楷：朝這個方向，那儘量在……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：儘量在我要離開前，看這個草案能不能出去。"],["張委員啓楷：這樣還是沒有那個……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有啦！因為……"],["張委員啓楷：你這樣會不會讓全民失望？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有、沒有，不是失望，我是遵照制度。"],["張委員啓楷：你回去在教學生時，學生問你說你還有時間，為什麼這個事情明明該做的不做呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，4月底新的委員如果產生，他8月1日就職，我再趁他還沒8月1日就職前，把一個法案丟出去，這個不是對於未來的……"],["張委員啓楷：不會啊！這個是很好的法案啊！這不是只有你認為好，我認為好，全民都認為好的啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是制度問題。"],["張委員啓楷：而且最最重要的，你認為現在沒辦法去罰三立，你覺得道理上也說不過去，你認為是法的問題，那補破網你要做啊！怎麼不做呢？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有、有、有，我們要做啊！只是沒有跟你說確定的時間。"],["張委員啓楷：要做就趕快做啊！"],["主席：主委，你儘量朝這個方向去走，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，OK，我就儘量朝這個方向去走。"],["張委員啓楷：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：時間到了，謝謝張啓楷委員的發言。","下一位請吳春城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":142,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-3","speakers":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00:00:15,640\n謝謝主席。請陳志偉。主委請。\n\n2\n00:00:25,726 --> 00:00:45,835\n大家好今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名開明派的學者可是你看現在準備要回學校了那麼多人在罵你還等70天可以好好把握一下我先提一個最重要的案子好不好對你來講可能是心裡現在最大的痛吧\n\n3\n00:00:47,028 --> 00:01:03,281\n就是靜電室的這個申設案一直大家都在傳說很多的傳聞是檢舉立例喔說政治黑手進去嘛那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他治案的這個賭職罪的被告對不對我先問你一下北檢約談你了沒有\n\n4\n00:01:08,956 --> 00:01:12,659\n對,調查中。到底你這邊回應他的解釋清楚了嗎?我們就是程序就是這樣子我們相關的資料就這樣處理我們把這些相關我們審查過程的資料就給那個檢察官啊\n\n5\n00:01:38,338 --> 00:02:04,697\n其實為什麼要告你賭職罪?就是說政治黑手所生進來結果你一直在煩惱你也承認說你跟洪耀虎碰了面啊然後煽動一間大家也有意見現在就說指證利率很多事情你等一下可以講沒有問題我是說證據那麼多所以人家去檢舉北檢才會把你列為被告是不是這樣我的意思就是說指證利率的同時你剛剛說你也回應了一些資料嘛對不對\n\n6\n00:02:05,498 --> 00:02:30,781\n你要說服我還有說服全國民眾說你是沒有問題的啊是不是這樣對啊阿他為什麼到目前為止還是他治案嗎如果真的有問題來講早是改成政治案的所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題並沒有任何剛才委員所講的這些所謂的弊端存在裡面是不是弊端現在還在查就對了已經有調了尊重檢調單位的調查要再調資料就對了那第一個問題可能也是你心裡的痛吧\n\n7\n00:02:31,542 --> 00:02:54,735\n我們首先請前院長直接講說你最聽話NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大傷害你都沒有抗議嗎?你都沒有抗議?那個新聞報告報導裡面所寫的我怎麼跟院長抗議呢?因為那是新聞報告所寫的我可以拿新聞報告跟院長抗議說是這樣講法我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說法主委你對著全國的民眾講這個事情是假的不是真的是院長假的是假的\n\n8\n00:02:55,115 --> 00:03:09,605\n蘇院長來講從來沒有跟我講過任何相關像媒體報導的話語也沒有想這種這個我們說最聽話也要或是命令我做什麼事情也要沒有我是依照我這個相關的法定程序跟事業去做這個事情所以你覺得你有聽蘇院長的威武\n\n9\n00:03:10,225 --> 00:03:11,586\n有一個案子就是三立入股這個宗家案對不對\n\n10\n00:03:40,868 --> 00:03:53,985\n這個案子看起來也是很明確你自己都承認嘛對不對可是你的處理我先問問一下你的處理方式你後來只有罰了這個系統業者一千四百四十萬嘛現在你不覺得太輕了嗎會太輕嗎因為我就是想我們才處這個系統業者因為為什麼\n\n11\n00:03:59,391 --> 00:04:18,523\n現在有限電視法裡面對這些所謂的其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定是不是我們現在有些我們現在為什麼廣電商法要修改就是說像以往我們都認為這個頻道沒有用到公家資源沒有用到說稀有、稀有、稀有、剩稀有現在兩個問題第一就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰的太輕這是一個問題嘛那第二東西我同意你剛才說的\n\n12\n00:04:24,887 --> 00:04:40,820\n你現在罰3例罰不到跟法有問題可是人民會講啊沒合理啊一個是合不合理的問題第二個法你現在還有70天嘛本席會很明確的提出來廣電三法的修法包括你剛剛講的因為現在法例不完整嘛可是馬上提包括\n\n13\n00:04:41,857 --> 00:04:43,018\n我們修法是有的\n\n14\n00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:34,919\n委員報告了齁這個大方向基本上我個人啦我個人都是支持嘛但是問題是說現在兩名市委我們要提委的我現在剩郭博威我你叫我一郭博威提出這麼重大的事情來你當年是你入台之前要做這個事情啊這對你的名聲也好啊而且是補破網你今天可以讓你核心啊跟全台灣的民眾講你去做了補破網的事情啊委員這個不合理沒有法審理嘛那如果是法的問題趕快去把它補起來啊\n\n15\n00:05:35,619 --> 00:06:04,337\n這個我當然盡快去處理因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了這個東西應該在...我知道所以你趕快下去你能不能給我一個答案這位小瓜瓜博貴我如果我提出來要再公聽各界的意見你說我...你回台北大學之前這個法媒體我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情我們是希望把這個東西訂好像委員這個方向我們也是贊成但是要把它訂好比如說你到底是哪些人要公開公開什麼範圍這個大家都可以討論的問題就當那三個原則啊很簡單啊\n\n16\n00:06:05,477 --> 00:06:27,062\n如果說不該透明是我發了以上有義務要申報啊不該透明啊接受政府補助的這三個對你來講你支持啊這麼簡單的東西這個有很困難嗎我的版本都已經擬好了啊我們最近就會提啦欸抱歉你不要給我一個引誘你下台之前你離開啦回台北大學之前廣電三法這個修法一定提出來可以嗎\n\n17\n00:06:30,484 --> 00:06:52,756\n法案我們會提出來跟各界討論,這樣可以嗎?我們把法案提出來,我會送到台灣你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚的提到行政院去啊我們立法結果我提案要經過行政院,行政院再提到報科我告訴你,你離開回台北大集市這70天送到至少你的案子出門到行政院可以嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:54,887 --> 00:07:02,353\n我希望可以朝這個方向去做我希望可以朝這個方向去處理但是我不敢承諾過我離開以前這個東西有沒有辦法送到立法院行政院去了我希望朝這個方向去做\n\n19\n00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:50,028\n朝這個方向那盡量在盡量在我可以我要離開前可以看這個草案能不能出去了這樣還是沒有沒有那個因為你這樣會不會讓全民全民全民失望沒有沒有不是失望我只是准教這一套你回去你看你還想要幹還想要問你說你你還要有時間你想要這個事情明明該做的不做呢報告委員市委在市委在新的委員如果要產生他8月1號就職我在趁他還沒8月1號就職把一個法案丟出去這個不是這很好的法案啊對\n\n20\n00:07:51,088 --> 00:07:51,268\n謝謝張啓楷委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4950\t15640\t謝謝主席。請陳志偉。主委請。\n25726\t45835\t大家好今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名開明派的學者可是你看現在準備要回學校了那麼多人在罵你還等70天可以好好把握一下我先提一個最重要的案子好不好對你來講可能是心裡現在最大的痛吧\n47028\t63281\t就是靜電室的這個申設案一直大家都在傳說很多的傳聞是檢舉立例喔說政治黑手進去嘛那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他治案的這個賭職罪的被告對不對我先問你一下北檢約談你了沒有\n68956\t72659\t對,調查中。到底你這邊回應他的解釋清楚了嗎?我們就是程序就是這樣子我們相關的資料就這樣處理我們把這些相關我們審查過程的資料就給那個檢察官啊\n98338\t124697\t其實為什麼要告你賭職罪?就是說政治黑手所生進來結果你一直在煩惱你也承認說你跟洪耀虎碰了面啊然後煽動一間大家也有意見現在就說指證利率很多事情你等一下可以講沒有問題我是說證據那麼多所以人家去檢舉北檢才會把你列為被告是不是這樣我的意思就是說指證利率的同時你剛剛說你也回應了一些資料嘛對不對\n125498\t150781\t你要說服我還有說服全國民眾說你是沒有問題的啊是不是這樣對啊阿他為什麼到目前為止還是他治案嗎如果真的有問題來講早是改成政治案的所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題並沒有任何剛才委員所講的這些所謂的弊端存在裡面是不是弊端現在還在查就對了已經有調了尊重檢調單位的調查要再調資料就對了那第一個問題可能也是你心裡的痛吧\n151542\t174735\t我們首先請前院長直接講說你最聽話NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大傷害你都沒有抗議嗎?你都沒有抗議?那個新聞報告報導裡面所寫的我怎麼跟院長抗議呢?因為那是新聞報告所寫的我可以拿新聞報告跟院長抗議說是這樣講法我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說法主委你對著全國的民眾講這個事情是假的不是真的是院長假的是假的\n175115\t189605\t蘇院長來講從來沒有跟我講過任何相關像媒體報導的話語也沒有想這種這個我們說最聽話也要或是命令我做什麼事情也要沒有我是依照我這個相關的法定程序跟事業去做這個事情所以你覺得你有聽蘇院長的威武\n190225\t191586\t有一個案子就是三立入股這個宗家案 對不對\n220868\t233985\t這個案子看起來也是很明確你自己都承認嘛對不對可是你的處理我先問問一下你的處理方式你後來只有罰了這個系統業者一千四百四十萬嘛現在你不覺得太輕了嗎會太輕嗎因為我就是想我們才處這個系統業者因為為什麼\n239391\t258523\t現在有限電視法裡面對這些所謂的其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定是不是我們現在有些我們現在為什麼廣電商法要修改就是說像以往我們都認為這個頻道沒有用到公家資源沒有用到說稀有、稀有、稀有、剩稀有現在兩個問題第一就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰的太輕這是一個問題嘛那第二東西我同意你剛才說的\n264887\t280820\t你現在罰3例罰不到跟法有問題可是人民會講啊沒合理啊一個是合不合理的問題第二個法你現在還有70天嘛本席會很明確的提出來廣電三法的修法包括你剛剛講的因為現在法例不完整嘛可是馬上提包括\n281857\t283018\t我們修法是有的\n311760\t334919\t委員報告了齁 這個大方向基本上我個人啦我個人都是支持嘛但是問題是說現在兩名市委我們要提委的我現在剩郭博威我你叫我一郭博威提出這麼重大的事情來你當年是你入台之前要做這個事情啊這對你的名聲也好啊而且是補破網你今天可以讓你核心啊跟全台灣的民眾講你去做了補破網的事情啊委員這個不合理沒有法審理嘛那如果是法的問題趕快去把它補起來啊\n335619\t364337\t這個我當然盡快去處理因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了這個東西應該在...我知道所以你趕快下去你能不能給我一個答案這位小瓜 瓜博貴我如果我提出來要再公聽各界的意見你說我...你回台北大學之前這個法媒體我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情我們是希望把這個東西訂好像委員這個方向我們也是贊成但是要把它訂好比如說你到底是哪些人要公開公開什麼範圍這個大家都可以討論的問題就當那三個原則啊很簡單啊\n365477\t387062\t如果說不該透明是我發了以上有義務要申報啊不該透明啊接受政府補助的這三個對你來講你支持啊這麼簡單的東西這個有很困難嗎我的版本都已經擬好了啊我們最近就會提啦欸抱歉你不要給我一個引誘你下台之前你離開啦回台北大學之前廣電三法這個修法一定提出來可以嗎\n390484\t412756\t法案我們會提出來跟各界討論,這樣可以嗎?我們把法案提出來,我會送到台灣你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚的提到行政院去啊我們立法結果我提案要經過行政院,行政院再提到報科我告訴你,你離開回台北大集市這70天送到至少你的案子出門到行政院可以嗎?\n414887\t422353\t我希望可以朝這個方向去做我希望可以朝這個方向去處理但是我不敢承諾過我離開以前這個東西有沒有辦法送到立法院行政院去了我希望朝這個方向去做\n441840\t470028\t朝這個方向那盡量在盡量在我可以我要離開前可以看這個草案能不能出去了這樣還是沒有沒有那個因為你這樣會不會讓全民全民全民失望沒有沒有不是失望我只是准教這一套你回去你看你還想要幹還想要問你說你你還要有時間你想要這個事情明明該做的不做呢報告委員市委在市委在新的委員如果要產生他8月1號就職我在趁他還沒8月1號就職把一個法案丟出去這個不是這很好的法案啊對\n471088\t471268\t謝謝張啓楷委員的發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席。請陳志偉。主委請。\n大家好今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名開明派的學者可是你看現在準備要回學校了那麼多人在罵你還等70天可以好好把握一下我先提一個最重要的案子好不好對你來講可能是心裡現在最大的痛吧\n就是靜電室的這個申設案一直大家都在傳說很多的傳聞是檢舉立例喔說政治黑手進去嘛那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他治案的這個賭職罪的被告對不對我先問你一下北檢約談你了沒有\n對,調查中。到底你這邊回應他的解釋清楚了嗎?我們就是程序就是這樣子我們相關的資料就這樣處理我們把這些相關我們審查過程的資料就給那個檢察官啊\n其實為什麼要告你賭職罪?就是說政治黑手所生進來結果你一直在煩惱你也承認說你跟洪耀虎碰了面啊然後煽動一間大家也有意見現在就說指證利率很多事情你等一下可以講沒有問題我是說證據那麼多所以人家去檢舉北檢才會把你列為被告是不是這樣我的意思就是說指證利率的同時你剛剛說你也回應了一些資料嘛對不對\n你要說服我還有說服全國民眾說你是沒有問題的啊是不是這樣對啊阿他為什麼到目前為止還是他治案嗎如果真的有問題來講早是改成政治案的所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題並沒有任何剛才委員所講的這些所謂的弊端存在裡面是不是弊端現在還在查就對了已經有調了尊重檢調單位的調查要再調資料就對了那第一個問題可能也是你心裡的痛吧\n我們首先請前院長直接講說你最聽話NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大傷害你都沒有抗議嗎?你都沒有抗議?那個新聞報告報導裡面所寫的我怎麼跟院長抗議呢?因為那是新聞報告所寫的我可以拿新聞報告跟院長抗議說是這樣講法我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說法主委你對著全國的民眾講這個事情是假的不是真的是院長假的是假的\n蘇院長來講從來沒有跟我講過任何相關像媒體報導的話語也沒有想這種這個我們說最聽話也要或是命令我做什麼事情也要沒有我是依照我這個相關的法定程序跟事業去做這個事情所以你覺得你有聽蘇院長的威武\n有一個案子就是三立入股這個宗家案 對不對\n這個案子看起來也是很明確你自己都承認嘛對不對可是你的處理我先問問一下你的處理方式你後來只有罰了這個系統業者一千四百四十萬嘛現在你不覺得太輕了嗎會太輕嗎因為我就是想我們才處這個系統業者因為為什麼\n現在有限電視法裡面對這些所謂的其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定是不是我們現在有些我們現在為什麼廣電商法要修改就是說像以往我們都認為這個頻道沒有用到公家資源沒有用到說稀有、稀有、稀有、剩稀有現在兩個問題第一就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰的太輕這是一個問題嘛那第二東西我同意你剛才說的\n你現在罰3例罰不到跟法有問題可是人民會講啊沒合理啊一個是合不合理的問題第二個法你現在還有70天嘛本席會很明確的提出來廣電三法的修法包括你剛剛講的因為現在法例不完整嘛可是馬上提包括\n我們修法是有的\n委員報告了齁 這個大方向基本上我個人啦我個人都是支持嘛但是問題是說現在兩名市委我們要提委的我現在剩郭博威我你叫我一郭博威提出這麼重大的事情來你當年是你入台之前要做這個事情啊這對你的名聲也好啊而且是補破網你今天可以讓你核心啊跟全台灣的民眾講你去做了補破網的事情啊委員這個不合理沒有法審理嘛那如果是法的問題趕快去把它補起來啊\n這個我當然盡快去處理因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了這個東西應該在...我知道所以你趕快下去你能不能給我一個答案這位小瓜 瓜博貴我如果我提出來要再公聽各界的意見你說我...你回台北大學之前這個法媒體我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情我們是希望把這個東西訂好像委員這個方向我們也是贊成但是要把它訂好比如說你到底是哪些人要公開公開什麼範圍這個大家都可以討論的問題就當那三個原則啊很簡單啊\n如果說不該透明是我發了以上有義務要申報啊不該透明啊接受政府補助的這三個對你來講你支持啊這麼簡單的東西這個有很困難嗎我的版本都已經擬好了啊我們最近就會提啦欸抱歉你不要給我一個引誘你下台之前你離開啦回台北大學之前廣電三法這個修法一定提出來可以嗎\n法案我們會提出來跟各界討論,這樣可以嗎?我們把法案提出來,我會送到台灣你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚的提到行政院去啊我們立法結果我提案要經過行政院,行政院再提到報科我告訴你,你離開回台北大集市這70天送到至少你的案子出門到行政院可以嗎?\n我希望可以朝這個方向去做我希望可以朝這個方向去處理但是我不敢承諾過我離開以前這個東西有沒有辦法送到立法院行政院去了我希望朝這個方向去做\n朝這個方向那盡量在盡量在我可以我要離開前可以看這個草案能不能出去了這樣還是沒有沒有那個因為你這樣會不會讓全民全民全民失望沒有沒有不是失望我只是准教這一套你回去你看你還想要幹還想要問你說你你還要有時間你想要這個事情明明該做的不做呢報告委員市委在市委在新的委員如果要產生他8月1號就職我在趁他還沒8月1號就職把一個法案丟出去這個不是這很好的法案啊對\n謝謝張啓楷委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.950 --> 00:15.640\n謝謝主席。請陳志偉。主委請。\n\n00:25.726 --> 00:45.835\n大家好今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名開明派的學者可是你看現在準備要回學校了那麼多人在罵你還等70天可以好好把握一下我先提一個最重要的案子好不好對你來講可能是心裡現在最大的痛吧\n\n00:47.028 --> 01:03.281\n就是靜電室的這個申設案一直大家都在傳說很多的傳聞是檢舉立例喔說政治黑手進去嘛那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他治案的這個賭職罪的被告對不對我先問你一下北檢約談你了沒有\n\n01:08.956 --> 01:12.659\n對,調查中。到底你這邊回應他的解釋清楚了嗎?我們就是程序就是這樣子我們相關的資料就這樣處理我們把這些相關我們審查過程的資料就給那個檢察官啊\n\n01:38.338 --> 02:04.697\n其實為什麼要告你賭職罪?就是說政治黑手所生進來結果你一直在煩惱你也承認說你跟洪耀虎碰了面啊然後煽動一間大家也有意見現在就說指證利率很多事情你等一下可以講沒有問題我是說證據那麼多所以人家去檢舉北檢才會把你列為被告是不是這樣我的意思就是說指證利率的同時你剛剛說你也回應了一些資料嘛對不對\n\n02:05.498 --> 02:30.781\n你要說服我還有說服全國民眾說你是沒有問題的啊是不是這樣對啊阿他為什麼到目前為止還是他治案嗎如果真的有問題來講早是改成政治案的所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題並沒有任何剛才委員所講的這些所謂的弊端存在裡面是不是弊端現在還在查就對了已經有調了尊重檢調單位的調查要再調資料就對了那第一個問題可能也是你心裡的痛吧\n\n02:31.542 --> 02:54.735\n我們首先請前院長直接講說你最聽話NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大傷害你都沒有抗議嗎?你都沒有抗議?那個新聞報告報導裡面所寫的我怎麼跟院長抗議呢?因為那是新聞報告所寫的我可以拿新聞報告跟院長抗議說是這樣講法我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說法主委你對著全國的民眾講這個事情是假的不是真的是院長假的是假的\n\n02:55.115 --> 03:09.605\n蘇院長來講從來沒有跟我講過任何相關像媒體報導的話語也沒有想這種這個我們說最聽話也要或是命令我做什麼事情也要沒有我是依照我這個相關的法定程序跟事業去做這個事情所以你覺得你有聽蘇院長的威武\n\n03:10.225 --> 03:11.586\n有一個案子就是三立入股這個宗家案對不對\n\n03:40.868 --> 03:53.985\n這個案子看起來也是很明確你自己都承認嘛對不對可是你的處理我先問問一下你的處理方式你後來只有罰了這個系統業者一千四百四十萬嘛現在你不覺得太輕了嗎會太輕嗎因為我就是想我們才處這個系統業者因為為什麼\n\n03:59.391 --> 04:18.523\n現在有限電視法裡面對這些所謂的其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定是不是我們現在有些我們現在為什麼廣電商法要修改就是說像以往我們都認為這個頻道沒有用到公家資源沒有用到說稀有、稀有、稀有、剩稀有現在兩個問題第一就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰的太輕這是一個問題嘛那第二東西我同意你剛才說的\n\n04:24.887 --> 04:40.820\n你現在罰3例罰不到跟法有問題可是人民會講啊沒合理啊一個是合不合理的問題第二個法你現在還有70天嘛本席會很明確的提出來廣電三法的修法包括你剛剛講的因為現在法例不完整嘛可是馬上提包括\n\n04:41.857 --> 04:43.018\n我們修法是有的\n\n05:11.760 --> 05:34.919\n委員報告了齁這個大方向基本上我個人啦我個人都是支持嘛但是問題是說現在兩名市委我們要提委的我現在剩郭博威我你叫我一郭博威提出這麼重大的事情來你當年是你入台之前要做這個事情啊這對你的名聲也好啊而且是補破網你今天可以讓你核心啊跟全台灣的民眾講你去做了補破網的事情啊委員這個不合理沒有法審理嘛那如果是法的問題趕快去把它補起來啊\n\n05:35.619 --> 06:04.337\n這個我當然盡快去處理因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了這個東西應該在...我知道所以你趕快下去你能不能給我一個答案這位小瓜瓜博貴我如果我提出來要再公聽各界的意見你說我...你回台北大學之前這個法媒體我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情我們是希望把這個東西訂好像委員這個方向我們也是贊成但是要把它訂好比如說你到底是哪些人要公開公開什麼範圍這個大家都可以討論的問題就當那三個原則啊很簡單啊\n\n06:05.477 --> 06:27.062\n如果說不該透明是我發了以上有義務要申報啊不該透明啊接受政府補助的這三個對你來講你支持啊這麼簡單的東西這個有很困難嗎我的版本都已經擬好了啊我們最近就會提啦欸抱歉你不要給我一個引誘你下台之前你離開啦回台北大學之前廣電三法這個修法一定提出來可以嗎\n\n06:30.484 --> 06:52.756\n法案我們會提出來跟各界討論,這樣可以嗎?我們把法案提出來,我會送到台灣你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚的提到行政院去啊我們立法結果我提案要經過行政院,行政院再提到報科我告訴你,你離開回台北大集市這70天送到至少你的案子出門到行政院可以嗎?\n\n06:54.887 --> 07:02.353\n我希望可以朝這個方向去做我希望可以朝這個方向去處理但是我不敢承諾過我離開以前這個東西有沒有辦法送到立法院行政院去了我希望朝這個方向去做\n\n07:21.840 --> 07:50.028\n朝這個方向那盡量在盡量在我可以我要離開前可以看這個草案能不能出去了這樣還是沒有沒有那個因為你這樣會不會讓全民全民全民失望沒有沒有不是失望我只是准教這一套你回去你看你還想要幹還想要問你說你你還要有時間你想要這個事情明明該做的不做呢報告委員市委在市委在新的委員如果要產生他8月1號就職我在趁他還沒8月1號就職把一個法案丟出去這個不是這很好的法案啊對\n\n07:51.088 --> 07:51.268\n謝謝張啓楷委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.95,"end":15.64,"text":"謝謝主席。請陳志偉。主委請。"},{"start":25.726,"end":45.835,"text":"大家好今天好多委員都在提說你以前是一個很有名開明派的學者可是你看現在準備要回學校了那麼多人在罵你還等70天可以好好把握一下我先提一個最重要的案子好不好對你來講可能是心裡現在最大的痛吧"},{"start":47.028,"end":63.281,"text":"就是靜電室的這個申設案一直大家都在傳說很多的傳聞是檢舉立例喔說政治黑手進去嘛那你這個痛是連北檢都已經把你列為他治案的這個賭職罪的被告對不對我先問你一下北檢約談你了沒有"},{"start":68.956,"end":72.659,"text":"對,調查中。到底你這邊回應他的解釋清楚了嗎?我們就是程序就是這樣子我們相關的資料就這樣處理我們把這些相關我們審查過程的資料就給那個檢察官啊"},{"start":98.338,"end":124.697,"text":"其實為什麼要告你賭職罪?就是說政治黑手所生進來結果你一直在煩惱你也承認說你跟洪耀虎碰了面啊然後煽動一間大家也有意見現在就說指證利率很多事情你等一下可以講沒有問題我是說證據那麼多所以人家去檢舉北檢才會把你列為被告是不是這樣我的意思就是說指證利率的同時你剛剛說你也回應了一些資料嘛對不對"},{"start":125.498,"end":150.781,"text":"你要說服我還有說服全國民眾說你是沒有問題的啊是不是這樣對啊阿他為什麼到目前為止還是他治案嗎如果真的有問題來講早是改成政治案的所以我們的資料完全是依法去處理相關的問題並沒有任何剛才委員所講的這些所謂的弊端存在裡面是不是弊端現在還在查就對了已經有調了尊重檢調單位的調查要再調資料就對了那第一個問題可能也是你心裡的痛吧"},{"start":151.542,"end":174.735,"text":"我們首先請前院長直接講說你最聽話NCC的主委怎麼可以聽話這對NCC的獨立性、中立性是很大傷害你都沒有抗議嗎?你都沒有抗議?那個新聞報告報導裡面所寫的我怎麼跟院長抗議呢?因為那是新聞報告所寫的我可以拿新聞報告跟院長抗議說是這樣講法我沒有辦法跟院長這樣說法主委你對著全國的民眾講這個事情是假的不是真的是院長假的是假的"},{"start":175.115,"end":189.605,"text":"蘇院長來講從來沒有跟我講過任何相關像媒體報導的話語也沒有想這種這個我們說最聽話也要或是命令我做什麼事情也要沒有我是依照我這個相關的法定程序跟事業去做這個事情所以你覺得你有聽蘇院長的威武"},{"start":190.225,"end":191.586,"text":"有一個案子就是三立入股這個宗家案 對不對"},{"start":220.868,"end":233.985,"text":"這個案子看起來也是很明確你自己都承認嘛對不對可是你的處理我先問問一下你的處理方式你後來只有罰了這個系統業者一千四百四十萬嘛現在你不覺得太輕了嗎會太輕嗎因為我就是想我們才處這個系統業者因為為什麼"},{"start":239.391,"end":258.523,"text":"現在有限電視法裡面對這些所謂的其他的大股東去投資這個部分來講法律上並沒有相關的處罰規定是不是我們現在有些我們現在為什麼廣電商法要修改就是說像以往我們都認為這個頻道沒有用到公家資源沒有用到說稀有、稀有、稀有、剩稀有現在兩個問題第一就是你不覺得12家系統業者罰的太輕這是一個問題嘛那第二東西我同意你剛才說的"},{"start":264.887,"end":280.82,"text":"你現在罰3例罰不到跟法有問題可是人民會講啊沒合理啊一個是合不合理的問題第二個法你現在還有70天嘛本席會很明確的提出來廣電三法的修法包括你剛剛講的因為現在法例不完整嘛可是馬上提包括"},{"start":281.857,"end":283.018,"text":"我們修法是有的"},{"start":311.76,"end":334.919,"text":"委員報告了齁 這個大方向基本上我個人啦我個人都是支持嘛但是問題是說現在兩名市委我們要提委的我現在剩郭博威我你叫我一郭博威提出這麼重大的事情來你當年是你入台之前要做這個事情啊這對你的名聲也好啊而且是補破網你今天可以讓你核心啊跟全台灣的民眾講你去做了補破網的事情啊委員這個不合理沒有法審理嘛那如果是法的問題趕快去把它補起來啊"},{"start":335.619,"end":364.337,"text":"這個我當然盡快去處理因為本來我們在討論就討論很久了這個東西應該在...我知道所以你趕快下去你能不能給我一個答案這位小瓜 瓜博貴我如果我提出來要再公聽各界的意見你說我...你回台北大學之前這個法媒體我們NCC本來就是一個延續性的事情我們是希望把這個東西訂好像委員這個方向我們也是贊成但是要把它訂好比如說你到底是哪些人要公開公開什麼範圍這個大家都可以討論的問題就當那三個原則啊很簡單啊"},{"start":365.477,"end":387.062,"text":"如果說不該透明是我發了以上有義務要申報啊不該透明啊接受政府補助的這三個對你來講你支持啊這麼簡單的東西這個有很困難嗎我的版本都已經擬好了啊我們最近就會提啦欸抱歉你不要給我一個引誘你下台之前你離開啦回台北大學之前廣電三法這個修法一定提出來可以嗎"},{"start":390.484,"end":412.756,"text":"法案我們會提出來跟各界討論,這樣可以嗎?我們把法案提出來,我會送到台灣你現在就是把案子很清清楚楚的提到行政院去啊我們立法結果我提案要經過行政院,行政院再提到報科我告訴你,你離開回台北大集市這70天送到至少你的案子出門到行政院可以嗎?"},{"start":414.887,"end":422.353,"text":"我希望可以朝這個方向去做我希望可以朝這個方向去處理但是我不敢承諾過我離開以前這個東西有沒有辦法送到立法院行政院去了我希望朝這個方向去做"},{"start":441.84,"end":470.028,"text":"朝這個方向那盡量在盡量在我可以我要離開前可以看這個草案能不能出去了這樣還是沒有沒有那個因為你這樣會不會讓全民全民全民失望沒有沒有不是失望我只是准教這一套你回去你看你還想要幹還想要問你說你你還要有時間你想要這個事情明明該做的不做呢報告委員市委在市委在新的委員如果要產生他8月1號就職我在趁他還沒8月1號就職把一個法案丟出去這個不是這很好的法案啊對"},{"start":471.088,"end":471.268,"text":"謝謝張啓楷委員的發言"}]}}}}