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09:29:51","影片長度":"00:09:06","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-5"},"date":"2024-03-11","duration":546,"end_time":"2024-03-11T09:29:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-11T09:20:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":110,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時20分）麻煩請主委。"],["主席：好，請主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員早。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，我看到報導有說，我們全國性公投電子連署系統，預計4月10號要上線測試，這有確定嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的，這已經過本會第599次委員會議決議，4月10號要正式的上線。"],["張委員宏陸：是正式上線還是測試？"],["李主任委員進勇：正式上線，但是在上線的初期，我們會根據數位部給我們的建議，還是提供給民眾他們來做測試，時間可能就是到4月下旬之前，還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下，我們會提供給民眾來做測試。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦！所以要說清楚啦！你4月10號上線之後，你還是有一段時間要測試啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：有，那是供民眾來做，其實在之前，我們內部的測試都已經完成了。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道你是內部的測試完成，而你4月10號上線之後，還是有一段時間是供民眾測試的。"],["李主任委員進勇：對，4月底之前。"],["張委員宏陸：那不是正式的，不是我就可以連署了嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：也沒有案子。"],["張委員宏陸：當然是沒有嘛！所以還是測試的性質嘛！我覺得這點要講清楚，要讓民眾知道。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：不然你4月10號上線，到時候說不行什麼的，我覺得這個要講清楚啦！上線跟測試，像很多的飯店也是要試營運啊！你這個部分我覺得訊息要清楚，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：其實我們原來的用詞是試營運，為了避免誤會，所以我們還是讓公民、一般的民眾他們有這個測試的機會。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦！我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事，但是要跟大家講你測試的期間，要供大家測試是有多久的時間，我覺得要把它一次講清楚啊！這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：你可以去網路上看，有的人其實是搞不清楚的，以為4月10號就可以用了。"],["李主任委員進勇：不過，這個測試我們是有特別注意到，就是不能夠跟已成案的公投案，不能互相衝突到。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，我要說的是，你們這個東西都很好，但是講得不清楚。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會有正式記者會對外再來公布。"],["張委員宏陸：會有正式記者會再對外公布。"],["李主任委員進勇：是，在上線之前。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得要講清楚。"],["李主任委員進勇：會的。"],["張委員宏陸：因為你們這個會讓人家誤解啦！","之前資安處有講了25項缺失，請問都解決了、都不會有問題了？"],["李主任委員進勇：都已經改善完成了。"],["張委員宏陸：都完全沒有問題了？"],["李主任委員進勇：都改善完成了，資安的風險也已經修復了。"],["張委員宏陸：好。總之，到時候你的記者會要說清楚。"],["李主任委員進勇：會，謝謝委員。"],["張委員宏陸：這是第一個。另外一個，我一直在跟你們說，無障礙投票在每次投票都會出現問題，這次還是有啊！我不知道主委你知不知道，這還是有發生，你看看，有的還要人家爬樓梯的、有階梯要上去的，然後我們的選務人員在那邊幫忙抬輪椅什麼的，讓他們可以上去，還是有這種情況發生，我不知道主委有沒有掌握到？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%、94%以上，有部分的檢核雖然有一些缺失的部分，但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足，這個原則上都沒有問題，可能有一、兩個單獨極少數個案，那就必須要用人力、用人工的方式來做協助，譬如說剛剛委員所提的，輪椅要用抬的，也許極少數的案例是會有的。"],["張委員宏陸：我跟主委說，選前我就一直提醒你們這一點，我現在很清楚告訴你，板橋埔墘國小101教室第1385號投開票所設置在階梯上面，坐輪椅的怎麼上去？雖然在1樓，但要爬階梯上去……"],["李主任委員進勇：階梯都必須要有斜坡的輔助措施……"],["張委員宏陸：所以就是要選務人員去抬！"],["李主任委員進勇：是，這個都有要求，也都有規範。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道都有要求，都有規範，但選務是地方政府在第一線主辦……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會再盯、再要求。"],["張委員宏陸：他們也會報上來跟你們講，但他們報上來你們也是看資料而已，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：我們沒有那麼多人力，也沒有辦法一個一個去看，所以選前我就一直強調，不能這樣剝奪身心障礙人士投票的方便性與權利！"],["李主任委員進勇：報告委員，我們可能要另外要求，除了以工作人員的服務來補足之外，也要特別要求在選擇投開票所時，應該要注意無障礙設施是否能夠完成。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，你說的都是道理，大家都知道，問題是沒有落實執行！講比較不好聽一點，如果地方政府故意不要讓投票率高的話，就故意找這些，對不對？沒有落實，而且這是我們一再強調的。我覺得下次選舉，不管什麼選舉，這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百避免，對不對？否則照這樣做你也沒有獎懲，最後還不是每個人都一樣記功嘉獎，對不對？地方選委會也會自己記功嘉獎，不是嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個都有考評。"],["張委員宏陸：考評？你也不是第一線，對不對？所以就變成考評不公，對不對？我覺得這點要加強，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：好，我們會再注意。"],["張委員宏陸：另外，我們一直在講選務人員的訓練什麼的，你們都說做得很好，對不對？像這次總統立委選舉就有投開票所出錯，不知道是故意的還是疏失，我個人認為選務人員不會故意，現在大家素質都很高，而且幾乎都是公務人員在做，不會有這種事情。但是我覺得受訓並沒有落實，因為報錯票，把甲報成乙，來回差了200多票！如果不是當場有人發現、有人制止，就這樣蓋上去了！這是百分之百發生的，對不對？之前我一直跟你們講，這些訓練要很精實，結果還是一樣！下一次選舉，你們對選務人員的訓練真的要再加強。"],["李主任委員進勇：是的，謝謝委員。的確有些個案是因為選務工作人員的疏失而造成一些瑕疵，加強訓練是我們應該要做的。但最重要的就是，這樣的情形現場都有複核機制，一關、兩關、三關，如委員說的報票，投開票所的報票，都經過三道複核程序，所以當場就會被發現，不會影響到選舉結果……"],["張委員宏陸：我說的這個案子是三道程序都已經完成了，是旁邊看開票的人說亂寫記錯，還要硬蓋、硬送上去？人家當場提出抗議他才改的！"],["李主任委員進勇：這個案我們會再進行瞭解。"],["張委員宏陸：這是百分之百的，而且有很多人證，就在新北，對不對？很多東西你們要去加強！我知道中選會不是直接辦理機構，選務畢竟是地方辦的，但這些應該要避免，不可以再發生了！"],["李主任委員進勇：是我們會再落實並進一步加強訓練。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：主委，針對電子連署系統，你剛才講4月10日，但很多民眾真的都不曉得，也不清楚。所以有關電子連署，你要開記者會很明確表達這是測試，讓民眾來熟悉，這點很重要。"],["李主任委員進勇：在上線之後會開放給民眾在4月底以前進行測試，也許有一些意見會回饋給我們……"],["主席：因為你開記者會的話就要很清楚地去描述。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝召委的提醒。"],["主席：請我們第2位牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-5","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","黃建賓","王美惠","徐欣瑩","黃捷","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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\"新\", \"start\": 524.376, \"end\": 524.616, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 524.616, \"end\": 524.636, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 526.613, \"end\": 526.633, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:09,419\n發言台好好謝謝好我們請主委好請主委\n\n2\n00:00:18,137 --> 00:00:29,148\n委員長主委我看到有報導有說我們這個全國性公投電子連署系統預計4月10號要上線測試這是有確定嗎是的這經過本會的599次的委員會議已經決議那4月10號要正式的上線\n\n3\n00:00:41,194 --> 00:01:05,901\n是正式上線還是測試正式上線但是在上線的初期我們會根據數位部給我們建議還是提供給民眾他們來做測試那時間可能就是到4月下旬之前4月下旬之前還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下我們會提供給民眾來做測試\n\n4\n00:01:07,592 --> 00:01:14,957\n對啦所以要說清楚啦你4月10號上線之後你還是有一段時間是要測試啊那是公民中其實在之前我們內部的測試都已經完成了我知道你是內部的測試完成但你4月10號上線之後還是有一段時間是公民中測試的嘛不是正式我就可以連署了嘛也沒有案子當然是沒有嘛所以還是測試的性質嘛所以我覺得這點要講清楚喔\n\n5\n00:01:37,350 --> 00:02:02,119\n要讓民眾知道喔不然你4月10號上線了那我到時候說不行什麼的我覺得這個要講清楚啦上線跟測試你很多的人家飯店也要試營運阿你這個我覺得訊息要清楚啦好不好其實我們原來的用詞是試營運阿是為了避免誤會所以我們就是說還是讓公民一般的民眾阿他們有這個測試的機會\n\n6\n00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:23,635\n對的我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事但是要跟大家講你的測試的期間要供大家測試是有多久的時間我覺得要把一次講清楚啊我覺得這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解啊對的你可以去網路上看啊有的人其實搞不清楚欸以為4月10號就可以用了欸\n\n7\n00:02:25,445 --> 00:02:40,330\n不過這個測試我們有特別注意到就是不能夠跟以呈案的這個公投案不能稍微點一下我知道啦我說的是你們這個都很好但是講的不清楚啦我們會有正式的記者會會對外再公佈\n\n8\n00:02:41,752 --> 00:03:05,736\n我會正式記者會在對外公佈在上線之前我覺得要講清楚因為你們這個會讓人家誤解那現在之前這個資安處有講25項缺失都解決了都已經改善完成都完全沒有問題都改善完成這個資安的風險也已經修復都已經修復了\n\n9\n00:03:09,761 --> 00:03:31,372\n那你們齁這個到時候我覺得你記者會要說清楚啦會會謝謝委員這是一個另外一個齁我一直在跟你們說啊齁這個啊無障礙投票啊齁這個啊每次投票都會出現問題啦是這次還是有啊對不對我不知道主委你知不知道啦齁還是有啊\n\n10\n00:03:34,110 --> 00:03:34,891\n我們的無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%以上93、94以上\n\n11\n00:03:57,173 --> 00:04:24,651\n那有部分這個檢核雖然有這個缺失的部分但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足這個原則上都沒有問題可能有一兩個單獨的極少數的個案那就必須要用人力用人工的方式來做協助比如說我不知道有沒有比如剛剛委員所提的說你那個輪椅還必須要用抬的也許極少數的案例是會有的\n\n12\n00:04:25,672 --> 00:04:44,752\n我跟主委說齁在選前我就一直提醒你們這個我現在跟你講得很清楚啊在板橋浦泉國小101教室啊第1385投票開鎖欸他設置在階梯上面啊那你說坐輪椅的怎麼上去他雖然在一樓啊\n\n13\n00:04:46,441 --> 00:04:56,590\n這個階梯應該都必須要有那個這個斜坡的所以就是有就要選務人員去抬啊是是這個我們會加這個都有要求都有規範齁\n\n14\n00:04:58,657 --> 00:05:23,202\n我知道這個處委都有要求都有規範但這個選務是地方政府第一線是他們在辦的嘛他們也是報上來跟你們講嘛那他們報上來你們也是看資料而已啊對不對我們沒有那麼多的人力我們也沒有辦法說一個一個去看但我選前我就一直強調\n\n15\n00:05:24,722 --> 00:05:46,690\n這不能這樣子啊你剝奪了身心障礙人的投票的方便性跟權利報告委員這個可能就是我們另外要求除了工作人員的服務來補足之外我們要特別要求你在選擇投開票所的時候就應該要注意到他這些無障礙的這個是否能夠來完成主委\n\n16\n00:05:47,610 --> 00:06:15,288\n你說的都是道理大家都知道沒有落實執行我講句比較不好聽一點的我如果地方政府我故意不要讓投票率高我就故意找這些對不對你沒有落實這個我們一再強調我覺得這一個下次的選舉不管什麼選舉我覺得這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百的避免對不對\n\n17\n00:06:16,969 --> 00:06:23,242\n阿不然你照這樣你也是沒有講成阿你到最後你還不是每個人都一樣技功嘉獎\n\n18\n00:06:24,637 --> 00:06:48,414\n對不對地方選委會他也自己就技功嘉獎啊不是嗎這個都有考評啦沒有沒有考評你也不是第一線啊對不對對不對所以我變成考評不公啊對不對這個我覺得要加強啦好不好好我們會再注意另外啦我們都一直在講選務人員的訓練啊什麼的你們都說有做得很好嘛對不對齁\n\n19\n00:06:51,178 --> 00:07:15,342\n像這次的總統立委選舉就投靠一票所連票不知道是故意的還是疏失我個人認為所有的選務人員不會去故意啦現在大家數值都很高而且幾乎都公務人員在做了不會有這種事情但是我覺得受訓就是這個沒有落實啦\n\n20\n00:07:16,563 --> 00:07:30,420\n這個票是給人家報錯欸假報成疑欸來回差了兩百多票欸那如果不是當場有人制止有人發現有人制止欸就這樣蓋上去了欸這個是百分之百發生的欸\n\n21\n00:07:35,688 --> 00:07:48,998\n對不對所以我覺得這些你們我之前一直跟你們講這些訓練都要很精實結果勒還是一樣我覺得這個真的你們在下一次的選舉真的這個選務人員的訓練要再加強\n\n22\n00:07:53,720 --> 00:08:19,150\n的確是有些個案的確因為是選務工作人員的疏失而造成了一些瑕疵那我們加強訓練這應該是要做的但是最重要的就是說像這樣的情形在現場都有複合的機制一關兩關三關你說這個報票這個投開票所的這個報告票都經過三道的複合的程序所以當場就會被發現\n\n23\n00:08:20,951 --> 00:08:44,636\n不會去影響到選舉的結果但是我說的這個案子是你們的三道符的程序都已經完成了是人家在那邊看開票所的人說你這個亂寫記錯你還要應該印送上去是當場人家提出抗議他才改的這個案我們會再進行了解這個是百分之百的這個有很多人證就在新北\n\n24\n00:08:46,613 --> 00:08:46,633\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t9419\t發言台好好謝謝好我們請主委好請主委\n18137\t29148\t委員長主委我看到有報導有說我們這個全國性公投電子連署系統預計4月10號要上線測試這是有確定嗎是的這經過本會的599次的委員會議已經決議那4月10號要正式的上線\n41194\t65901\t是正式上線還是測試正式上線但是在上線的初期我們會根據數位部給我們建議還是提供給民眾他們來做測試那時間可能就是到4月下旬之前4月下旬之前還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下我們會提供給民眾來做測試\n67592\t74957\t對啦所以要說清楚啦你4月10號上線之後你還是有一段時間是要測試啊那是公民中其實在之前我們內部的測試都已經完成了我知道你是內部的測試完成但你4月10號上線之後還是有一段時間是公民中測試的嘛不是正式我就可以連署了嘛也沒有案子當然是沒有嘛所以還是測試的性質嘛所以我覺得這點要講清楚喔\n97350\t122119\t要讓民眾知道喔不然你4月10號上線了那我到時候說不行什麼的我覺得這個要講清楚啦上線跟測試你很多的人家飯店也要試營運阿你這個我覺得訊息要清楚啦好不好其實我們原來的用詞是試營運阿是為了避免誤會所以我們就是說還是讓公民一般的民眾阿他們有這個測試的機會\n123880\t143635\t對的我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事但是要跟大家講你的測試的期間要供大家測試是有多久的時間我覺得要把一次講清楚啊我覺得這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解啊對的你可以去網路上看啊有的人其實搞不清楚欸以為4月10號就可以用了欸\n145445\t160330\t不過這個測試我們有特別注意到就是不能夠跟以呈案的這個公投案不能稍微點一下我知道啦我說的是你們這個都很好但是講的不清楚啦我們會有正式的記者會會對外再公佈\n161752\t185736\t我會正式記者會在對外公佈在上線之前我覺得要講清楚因為你們這個會讓人家誤解那現在之前這個資安處有講25項缺失都解決了都已經改善完成都完全沒有問題都改善完成這個資安的風險也已經修復都已經修復了\n189761\t211372\t那你們齁這個到時候我覺得你記者會要說清楚啦會會謝謝委員這是一個另外一個齁我一直在跟你們說啊齁這個啊無障礙投票啊齁這個啊每次投票都會出現問題啦是這次還是有啊對不對我不知道主委你知不知道啦齁還是有啊\n214110\t214891\t我們的無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%以上93、94以上\n237173\t264651\t那有部分這個檢核雖然有這個缺失的部分但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足這個原則上都沒有問題可能有一兩個單獨的極少數的個案那就必須要用人力用人工的方式來做協助比如說我不知道有沒有比如剛剛委員所提的說你那個輪椅還必須要用抬的也許極少數的案例是會有的\n265672\t284752\t我跟主委說齁在選前我就一直提醒你們這個我現在跟你講得很清楚啊在板橋浦泉國小101教室啊第1385投票開鎖欸他設置在階梯上面啊那你說坐輪椅的怎麼上去他雖然在一樓啊\n286441\t296590\t這個階梯應該都必須要有那個這個斜坡的所以就是有就要選務人員去抬啊是是這個我們會加這個都有要求都有規範齁\n298657\t323202\t我知道這個處委都有要求都有規範但這個選務是地方政府第一線是他們在辦的嘛他們也是報上來跟你們講嘛那他們報上來你們也是看資料而已啊對不對我們沒有那麼多的人力我們也沒有辦法說一個一個去看但我選前我就一直強調\n324722\t346690\t這不能這樣子啊你剝奪了身心障礙人的投票的方便性跟權利報告委員這個可能就是我們另外要求除了工作人員的服務來補足之外我們要特別要求你在選擇投開票所的時候就應該要注意到他這些無障礙的這個是否能夠來完成主委\n347610\t375288\t你說的都是道理大家都知道沒有落實執行我講句比較不好聽一點的我如果地方政府我故意不要讓投票率高我就故意找這些對不對你沒有落實這個我們一再強調我覺得這一個下次的選舉不管什麼選舉我覺得這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百的避免對不對\n376969\t383242\t阿不然你照這樣你也是沒有講成阿你到最後你還不是每個人都一樣技功嘉獎\n384637\t408414\t對不對地方選委會他也自己就技功嘉獎啊不是嗎這個都有考評啦沒有沒有考評你也不是第一線啊對不對對不對所以我變成考評不公啊對不對這個我覺得要加強啦好不好好我們會再注意另外啦我們都一直在講選務人員的訓練啊什麼的你們都說有做得很好嘛對不對齁\n411178\t435342\t像這次的總統立委選舉就投靠一票所連票不知道是故意的還是疏失我個人認為所有的選務人員不會去故意啦現在大家數值都很高而且幾乎都公務人員在做了不會有這種事情但是我覺得受訓就是這個沒有落實啦\n436563\t450420\t這個票是給人家報錯欸假報成疑欸來回差了兩百多票欸那如果不是當場有人制止有人發現有人制止欸就這樣蓋上去了欸這個是百分之百發生的欸\n455688\t468998\t對不對所以我覺得這些你們我之前一直跟你們講這些訓練都要很精實結果勒還是一樣我覺得這個真的你們在下一次的選舉真的這個選務人員的訓練要再加強\n473720\t499150\t的確是有些個案的確因為是選務工作人員的疏失而造成了一些瑕疵那我們加強訓練這應該是要做的但是最重要的就是說像這樣的情形在現場都有複合的機制一關兩關三關你說這個報票這個投開票所的這個報告票都經過三道的複合的程序所以當場就會被發現\n500951\t524636\t不會去影響到選舉的結果但是我說的這個案子是你們的三道符的程序都已經完成了是人家在那邊看開票所的人說你這個亂寫記錯你還要應該印送上去是當場人家提出抗議他才改的這個案我們會再進行了解這個是百分之百的這個有很多人證就在新北\n526613\t526633\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"發言台好好謝謝好我們請主委好請主委\n委員長主委我看到有報導有說我們這個全國性公投電子連署系統預計4月10號要上線測試這是有確定嗎是的這經過本會的599次的委員會議已經決議那4月10號要正式的上線\n是正式上線還是測試正式上線但是在上線的初期我們會根據數位部給我們建議還是提供給民眾他們來做測試那時間可能就是到4月下旬之前4月下旬之前還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下我們會提供給民眾來做測試\n對啦所以要說清楚啦你4月10號上線之後你還是有一段時間是要測試啊那是公民中其實在之前我們內部的測試都已經完成了我知道你是內部的測試完成但你4月10號上線之後還是有一段時間是公民中測試的嘛不是正式我就可以連署了嘛也沒有案子當然是沒有嘛所以還是測試的性質嘛所以我覺得這點要講清楚喔\n要讓民眾知道喔不然你4月10號上線了那我到時候說不行什麼的我覺得這個要講清楚啦上線跟測試你很多的人家飯店也要試營運阿你這個我覺得訊息要清楚啦好不好其實我們原來的用詞是試營運阿是為了避免誤會所以我們就是說還是讓公民一般的民眾阿他們有這個測試的機會\n對的我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事但是要跟大家講你的測試的期間要供大家測試是有多久的時間我覺得要把一次講清楚啊我覺得這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解啊對的你可以去網路上看啊有的人其實搞不清楚欸以為4月10號就可以用了欸\n不過這個測試我們有特別注意到就是不能夠跟以呈案的這個公投案不能稍微點一下我知道啦我說的是你們這個都很好但是講的不清楚啦我們會有正式的記者會會對外再公佈\n我會正式記者會在對外公佈在上線之前我覺得要講清楚因為你們這個會讓人家誤解那現在之前這個資安處有講25項缺失都解決了都已經改善完成都完全沒有問題都改善完成這個資安的風險也已經修復都已經修復了\n那你們齁這個到時候我覺得你記者會要說清楚啦會會謝謝委員這是一個另外一個齁我一直在跟你們說啊齁這個啊無障礙投票啊齁這個啊每次投票都會出現問題啦是這次還是有啊對不對我不知道主委你知不知道啦齁還是有啊\n我們的無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%以上93、94以上\n那有部分這個檢核雖然有這個缺失的部分但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足這個原則上都沒有問題可能有一兩個單獨的極少數的個案那就必須要用人力用人工的方式來做協助比如說我不知道有沒有比如剛剛委員所提的說你那個輪椅還必須要用抬的也許極少數的案例是會有的\n我跟主委說齁在選前我就一直提醒你們這個我現在跟你講得很清楚啊在板橋浦泉國小101教室啊第1385投票開鎖欸他設置在階梯上面啊那你說坐輪椅的怎麼上去他雖然在一樓啊\n這個階梯應該都必須要有那個這個斜坡的所以就是有就要選務人員去抬啊是是這個我們會加這個都有要求都有規範齁\n我知道這個處委都有要求都有規範但這個選務是地方政府第一線是他們在辦的嘛他們也是報上來跟你們講嘛那他們報上來你們也是看資料而已啊對不對我們沒有那麼多的人力我們也沒有辦法說一個一個去看但我選前我就一直強調\n這不能這樣子啊你剝奪了身心障礙人的投票的方便性跟權利報告委員這個可能就是我們另外要求除了工作人員的服務來補足之外我們要特別要求你在選擇投開票所的時候就應該要注意到他這些無障礙的這個是否能夠來完成主委\n你說的都是道理大家都知道沒有落實執行我講句比較不好聽一點的我如果地方政府我故意不要讓投票率高我就故意找這些對不對你沒有落實這個我們一再強調我覺得這一個下次的選舉不管什麼選舉我覺得這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百的避免對不對\n阿不然你照這樣你也是沒有講成阿你到最後你還不是每個人都一樣技功嘉獎\n對不對地方選委會他也自己就技功嘉獎啊不是嗎這個都有考評啦沒有沒有考評你也不是第一線啊對不對對不對所以我變成考評不公啊對不對這個我覺得要加強啦好不好好我們會再注意另外啦我們都一直在講選務人員的訓練啊什麼的你們都說有做得很好嘛對不對齁\n像這次的總統立委選舉就投靠一票所連票不知道是故意的還是疏失我個人認為所有的選務人員不會去故意啦現在大家數值都很高而且幾乎都公務人員在做了不會有這種事情但是我覺得受訓就是這個沒有落實啦\n這個票是給人家報錯欸假報成疑欸來回差了兩百多票欸那如果不是當場有人制止有人發現有人制止欸就這樣蓋上去了欸這個是百分之百發生的欸\n對不對所以我覺得這些你們我之前一直跟你們講這些訓練都要很精實結果勒還是一樣我覺得這個真的你們在下一次的選舉真的這個選務人員的訓練要再加強\n的確是有些個案的確因為是選務工作人員的疏失而造成了一些瑕疵那我們加強訓練這應該是要做的但是最重要的就是說像這樣的情形在現場都有複合的機制一關兩關三關你說這個報票這個投開票所的這個報告票都經過三道的複合的程序所以當場就會被發現\n不會去影響到選舉的結果但是我說的這個案子是你們的三道符的程序都已經完成了是人家在那邊看開票所的人說你這個亂寫記錯你還要應該印送上去是當場人家提出抗議他才改的這個案我們會再進行了解這個是百分之百的這個有很多人證就在新北\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:09.419\n發言台好好謝謝好我們請主委好請主委\n\n00:18.137 --> 00:29.148\n委員長主委我看到有報導有說我們這個全國性公投電子連署系統預計4月10號要上線測試這是有確定嗎是的這經過本會的599次的委員會議已經決議那4月10號要正式的上線\n\n00:41.194 --> 01:05.901\n是正式上線還是測試正式上線但是在上線的初期我們會根據數位部給我們建議還是提供給民眾他們來做測試那時間可能就是到4月下旬之前4月下旬之前還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下我們會提供給民眾來做測試\n\n01:07.592 --> 01:14.957\n對啦所以要說清楚啦你4月10號上線之後你還是有一段時間是要測試啊那是公民中其實在之前我們內部的測試都已經完成了我知道你是內部的測試完成但你4月10號上線之後還是有一段時間是公民中測試的嘛不是正式我就可以連署了嘛也沒有案子當然是沒有嘛所以還是測試的性質嘛所以我覺得這點要講清楚喔\n\n01:37.350 --> 02:02.119\n要讓民眾知道喔不然你4月10號上線了那我到時候說不行什麼的我覺得這個要講清楚啦上線跟測試你很多的人家飯店也要試營運阿你這個我覺得訊息要清楚啦好不好其實我們原來的用詞是試營運阿是為了避免誤會所以我們就是說還是讓公民一般的民眾阿他們有這個測試的機會\n\n02:03.880 --> 02:23.635\n對的我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事但是要跟大家講你的測試的期間要供大家測試是有多久的時間我覺得要把一次講清楚啊我覺得這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解啊對的你可以去網路上看啊有的人其實搞不清楚欸以為4月10號就可以用了欸\n\n02:25.445 --> 02:40.330\n不過這個測試我們有特別注意到就是不能夠跟以呈案的這個公投案不能稍微點一下我知道啦我說的是你們這個都很好但是講的不清楚啦我們會有正式的記者會會對外再公佈\n\n02:41.752 --> 03:05.736\n我會正式記者會在對外公佈在上線之前我覺得要講清楚因為你們這個會讓人家誤解那現在之前這個資安處有講25項缺失都解決了都已經改善完成都完全沒有問題都改善完成這個資安的風險也已經修復都已經修復了\n\n03:09.761 --> 03:31.372\n那你們齁這個到時候我覺得你記者會要說清楚啦會會謝謝委員這是一個另外一個齁我一直在跟你們說啊齁這個啊無障礙投票啊齁這個啊每次投票都會出現問題啦是這次還是有啊對不對我不知道主委你知不知道啦齁還是有啊\n\n03:34.110 --> 03:34.891\n我們的無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%以上93、94以上\n\n03:57.173 --> 04:24.651\n那有部分這個檢核雖然有這個缺失的部分但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足這個原則上都沒有問題可能有一兩個單獨的極少數的個案那就必須要用人力用人工的方式來做協助比如說我不知道有沒有比如剛剛委員所提的說你那個輪椅還必須要用抬的也許極少數的案例是會有的\n\n04:25.672 --> 04:44.752\n我跟主委說齁在選前我就一直提醒你們這個我現在跟你講得很清楚啊在板橋浦泉國小101教室啊第1385投票開鎖欸他設置在階梯上面啊那你說坐輪椅的怎麼上去他雖然在一樓啊\n\n04:46.441 --> 04:56.590\n這個階梯應該都必須要有那個這個斜坡的所以就是有就要選務人員去抬啊是是這個我們會加這個都有要求都有規範齁\n\n04:58.657 --> 05:23.202\n我知道這個處委都有要求都有規範但這個選務是地方政府第一線是他們在辦的嘛他們也是報上來跟你們講嘛那他們報上來你們也是看資料而已啊對不對我們沒有那麼多的人力我們也沒有辦法說一個一個去看但我選前我就一直強調\n\n05:24.722 --> 05:46.690\n這不能這樣子啊你剝奪了身心障礙人的投票的方便性跟權利報告委員這個可能就是我們另外要求除了工作人員的服務來補足之外我們要特別要求你在選擇投開票所的時候就應該要注意到他這些無障礙的這個是否能夠來完成主委\n\n05:47.610 --> 06:15.288\n你說的都是道理大家都知道沒有落實執行我講句比較不好聽一點的我如果地方政府我故意不要讓投票率高我就故意找這些對不對你沒有落實這個我們一再強調我覺得這一個下次的選舉不管什麼選舉我覺得這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百的避免對不對\n\n06:16.969 --> 06:23.242\n阿不然你照這樣你也是沒有講成阿你到最後你還不是每個人都一樣技功嘉獎\n\n06:24.637 --> 06:48.414\n對不對地方選委會他也自己就技功嘉獎啊不是嗎這個都有考評啦沒有沒有考評你也不是第一線啊對不對對不對所以我變成考評不公啊對不對這個我覺得要加強啦好不好好我們會再注意另外啦我們都一直在講選務人員的訓練啊什麼的你們都說有做得很好嘛對不對齁\n\n06:51.178 --> 07:15.342\n像這次的總統立委選舉就投靠一票所連票不知道是故意的還是疏失我個人認為所有的選務人員不會去故意啦現在大家數值都很高而且幾乎都公務人員在做了不會有這種事情但是我覺得受訓就是這個沒有落實啦\n\n07:16.563 --> 07:30.420\n這個票是給人家報錯欸假報成疑欸來回差了兩百多票欸那如果不是當場有人制止有人發現有人制止欸就這樣蓋上去了欸這個是百分之百發生的欸\n\n07:35.688 --> 07:48.998\n對不對所以我覺得這些你們我之前一直跟你們講這些訓練都要很精實結果勒還是一樣我覺得這個真的你們在下一次的選舉真的這個選務人員的訓練要再加強\n\n07:53.720 --> 08:19.150\n的確是有些個案的確因為是選務工作人員的疏失而造成了一些瑕疵那我們加強訓練這應該是要做的但是最重要的就是說像這樣的情形在現場都有複合的機制一關兩關三關你說這個報票這個投開票所的這個報告票都經過三道的複合的程序所以當場就會被發現\n\n08:20.951 --> 08:44.636\n不會去影響到選舉的結果但是我說的這個案子是你們的三道符的程序都已經完成了是人家在那邊看開票所的人說你這個亂寫記錯你還要應該印送上去是當場人家提出抗議他才改的這個案我們會再進行了解這個是百分之百的這個有很多人證就在新北\n\n08:46.613 --> 08:46.633\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":9.419,"text":"發言台好好謝謝好我們請主委好請主委"},{"start":18.137,"end":29.148,"text":"委員長主委我看到有報導有說我們這個全國性公投電子連署系統預計4月10號要上線測試這是有確定嗎是的這經過本會的599次的委員會議已經決議那4月10號要正式的上線"},{"start":41.194,"end":65.901,"text":"是正式上線還是測試正式上線但是在上線的初期我們會根據數位部給我們建議還是提供給民眾他們來做測試那時間可能就是到4月下旬之前4月下旬之前還不會有公投成案開始要連署的情況之下我們會提供給民眾來做測試"},{"start":67.592,"end":74.957,"text":"對啦所以要說清楚啦你4月10號上線之後你還是有一段時間是要測試啊那是公民中其實在之前我們內部的測試都已經完成了我知道你是內部的測試完成但你4月10號上線之後還是有一段時間是公民中測試的嘛不是正式我就可以連署了嘛也沒有案子當然是沒有嘛所以還是測試的性質嘛所以我覺得這點要講清楚喔"},{"start":97.35,"end":122.119,"text":"要讓民眾知道喔不然你4月10號上線了那我到時候說不行什麼的我覺得這個要講清楚啦上線跟測試你很多的人家飯店也要試營運阿你這個我覺得訊息要清楚啦好不好其實我們原來的用詞是試營運阿是為了避免誤會所以我們就是說還是讓公民一般的民眾阿他們有這個測試的機會"},{"start":123.88,"end":143.635,"text":"對的我覺得4月10號上線是一件好事但是要跟大家講你的測試的期間要供大家測試是有多久的時間我覺得要把一次講清楚啊我覺得這樣子才不會讓民眾誤解啊對的你可以去網路上看啊有的人其實搞不清楚欸以為4月10號就可以用了欸"},{"start":145.445,"end":160.33,"text":"不過這個測試我們有特別注意到就是不能夠跟以呈案的這個公投案不能稍微點一下我知道啦我說的是你們這個都很好但是講的不清楚啦我們會有正式的記者會會對外再公佈"},{"start":161.752,"end":185.736,"text":"我會正式記者會在對外公佈在上線之前我覺得要講清楚因為你們這個會讓人家誤解那現在之前這個資安處有講25項缺失都解決了都已經改善完成都完全沒有問題都改善完成這個資安的風險也已經修復都已經修復了"},{"start":189.761,"end":211.372,"text":"那你們齁這個到時候我覺得你記者會要說清楚啦會會謝謝委員這是一個另外一個齁我一直在跟你們說啊齁這個啊無障礙投票啊齁這個啊每次投票都會出現問題啦是這次還是有啊對不對我不知道主委你知不知道啦齁還是有啊"},{"start":214.11,"end":214.891,"text":"我們的無障礙的檢核合格率大概都達到93%以上93、94以上"},{"start":237.173,"end":264.651,"text":"那有部分這個檢核雖然有這個缺失的部分但是都用輔助設施的方式來予以補足這個原則上都沒有問題可能有一兩個單獨的極少數的個案那就必須要用人力用人工的方式來做協助比如說我不知道有沒有比如剛剛委員所提的說你那個輪椅還必須要用抬的也許極少數的案例是會有的"},{"start":265.672,"end":284.752,"text":"我跟主委說齁在選前我就一直提醒你們這個我現在跟你講得很清楚啊在板橋浦泉國小101教室啊第1385投票開鎖欸他設置在階梯上面啊那你說坐輪椅的怎麼上去他雖然在一樓啊"},{"start":286.441,"end":296.59,"text":"這個階梯應該都必須要有那個這個斜坡的所以就是有就要選務人員去抬啊是是這個我們會加這個都有要求都有規範齁"},{"start":298.657,"end":323.202,"text":"我知道這個處委都有要求都有規範但這個選務是地方政府第一線是他們在辦的嘛他們也是報上來跟你們講嘛那他們報上來你們也是看資料而已啊對不對我們沒有那麼多的人力我們也沒有辦法說一個一個去看但我選前我就一直強調"},{"start":324.722,"end":346.69,"text":"這不能這樣子啊你剝奪了身心障礙人的投票的方便性跟權利報告委員這個可能就是我們另外要求除了工作人員的服務來補足之外我們要特別要求你在選擇投開票所的時候就應該要注意到他這些無障礙的這個是否能夠來完成主委"},{"start":347.61,"end":375.288,"text":"你說的都是道理大家都知道沒有落實執行我講句比較不好聽一點的我如果地方政府我故意不要讓投票率高我就故意找這些對不對你沒有落實這個我們一再強調我覺得這一個下次的選舉不管什麼選舉我覺得這一點我們要能夠做到百分之百的避免對不對"},{"start":376.969,"end":383.242,"text":"阿不然你照這樣你也是沒有講成阿你到最後你還不是每個人都一樣技功嘉獎"},{"start":384.637,"end":408.414,"text":"對不對地方選委會他也自己就技功嘉獎啊不是嗎這個都有考評啦沒有沒有考評你也不是第一線啊對不對對不對所以我變成考評不公啊對不對這個我覺得要加強啦好不好好我們會再注意另外啦我們都一直在講選務人員的訓練啊什麼的你們都說有做得很好嘛對不對齁"},{"start":411.178,"end":435.342,"text":"像這次的總統立委選舉就投靠一票所連票不知道是故意的還是疏失我個人認為所有的選務人員不會去故意啦現在大家數值都很高而且幾乎都公務人員在做了不會有這種事情但是我覺得受訓就是這個沒有落實啦"},{"start":436.563,"end":450.42,"text":"這個票是給人家報錯欸假報成疑欸來回差了兩百多票欸那如果不是當場有人制止有人發現有人制止欸就這樣蓋上去了欸這個是百分之百發生的欸"},{"start":455.688,"end":468.998,"text":"對不對所以我覺得這些你們我之前一直跟你們講這些訓練都要很精實結果勒還是一樣我覺得這個真的你們在下一次的選舉真的這個選務人員的訓練要再加強"},{"start":473.72,"end":499.15,"text":"的確是有些個案的確因為是選務工作人員的疏失而造成了一些瑕疵那我們加強訓練這應該是要做的但是最重要的就是說像這樣的情形在現場都有複合的機制一關兩關三關你說這個報票這個投開票所的這個報告票都經過三道的複合的程序所以當場就會被發現"},{"start":500.951,"end":524.636,"text":"不會去影響到選舉的結果但是我說的這個案子是你們的三道符的程序都已經完成了是人家在那邊看開票所的人說你這個亂寫記錯你還要應該印送上去是當場人家提出抗議他才改的這個案我們會再進行了解這個是百分之百的這個有很多人證就在新北"},{"start":526.613,"end":526.633,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}}}