{"id":149718,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149718","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3a8d0956074a293814da31ea7a16808f04b328b65eecebe0f8ba9b0039caa7a6ceb055e68315fde05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:02:36 - 11:18:36","影片長度":"00:16:00","會議時間":"2024-03-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議","id":"院會-11-1-4","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4},"date":"2024-03-12","duration":960,"end_time":"2024-03-12T11:18:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-12T11:02:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":669,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時2分）有請院長跟部長，謝謝。"],["主席：再請陳院長跟內政部，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：張委員好，恭喜你當選立委！"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝院長，院長早安。"],["陳院長建仁：早安。"],["張委員雅琳：首先，在開始之前，剛剛李坤城委員也有提到，就是1歲凱凱的遭虐事件，我看了這個事件之後，我覺得有三個疑點，這三個疑點主要是，為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況了，可是卻沒有積極地去通報主管機關？再來第二個，原保母他本來就已經打算要收養，可是為什麼被拒絕？第三個，家長為什麼沒有選擇攜子入獄？是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎？所以這有三大疑點，希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相，看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的，還給家屬一個公道。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝委員的關心。這一個部分，確實我們已經請衛福部來加強跟臺北市政府這邊聯繫，然後來瞭解這整個事件的來龍去脈，希望這件事情不要再發生。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝院長。"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝。"],["張委員雅琳：接下來就是進到我今天想要問的第一個問題，就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情，可以請院長回答嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：國家永續的發展（Sustainable Development Goals，SDGs），實際上是每一個國家都很重要，因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展，還有人權的保護，這都是在整個永續發展、永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。"],["張委員雅琳：對，剛剛院長有提到包括人權的保障。其實我可以這樣說嗎？就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境，院長跟部長能認同嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：完全認同，這是我們政府應該做的，而且也要鼓勵民間一起來參與。"],["張委員雅琳：兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環，兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康，院長您看這個圖，不曉得您知道這是在哪裡嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我不知道，我的孫子都比較大了，所以……"],["張委員雅琳：好，裡面有很多好像可以攀爬、可以玩耍的地方，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對啊，看起來很棒。"],["張委員雅琳：這其實是兒童的職能治療室，國外有非常多的研究都在說明，通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展，可以延緩一些問題的。所以在去年的時候，我們國家有一個統計的數字，就是疫情之後兒童身心發展遲緩的人數達到新高。所以我想大家應該非常瞭解，就是兒童遊戲真的是非常、非常重要，除了是保障一般兒童，還有包含幫助兒童可以更好地避免身心疾患的問題。","再來，我們更功利地來講，從國家經濟來講，世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就倡議，兒童需要透過遊戲去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力，像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力，還有創造力。再來我想再分享一個故事，我們不要那麼功利，我們溫暖一點，過去我在民間訪談非常多的家長，問他們為什麼會想要來公園玩，其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常感動，他說大家都教我們，爸爸一定要陪小孩，可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩，但因為有了特色公園，我才可以帶小孩來這邊玩，一起創造我們之間難忘的回憶。像大仁哥（院長有個大仁哥的稱號）非常的溫暖，所以我也希望我們可以帶著這樣子的溫暖一起來推動我們的兒童遊戲權，一起來努力，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好啊！這個很重要。"],["張委員雅琳：好，因為這也是在法規裡面有相關的規定，接下來我們進入到兒少權法第二十四條有講到合適的遊戲空間，而且強調了兒童跟少年。過去我在民間都是非常積極地跟公務員一起努力，我們希望一起把事情做對、做好。","所以我們來看一下，這一張圖上面粉紅色框框是公園數量正在減少的縣市，我們可以看到總數雖然是成長，可是從彰化或是新竹縣市，其實是以1/2到1/3的數量在減少，我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準，所以他們做了一些拆除的動作。也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["張委員雅琳：我想要問一下，我知道第一階段已經申請結束，現在應該還有3億元，我想要知道現在第二階段申請的狀況如何。"],["陳院長建仁：好，這個我是不是請我們內政部長來回答？"],["林部長右昌：好，謝謝。第二階段剩下3億元，大概是在3月12號到3月13號要進行審查會議，如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關案件，我們會儘速通知地方政府來辦理。"],["張委員雅琳：好，那我想問一下……"],["林部長右昌：不過我跟委員報告一件事情，這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持，這10億元是額外增加的，最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前有一些不符合規定的兒童遊戲場遊具拆掉之後，地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復，所以才有這個案子。"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯，那我想請教院長跟部長，在下一個階段接下來就是有一些要再做審查的部分，可是因為我們剛剛有講到永續有一件很重要的事情，也要面對氣候變遷。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["張委員雅琳：但是院長也可以看到圖片裡小孩在哪裡？"],["陳院長建仁：很熱！"],["張委員雅琳：對，小孩全部躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。"],["陳院長建仁：溜滑梯不能溜了，太熱了。"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯，太熱了！再來看到旁邊那張圖，在同一個時間點，我們的自然素材跟橡膠地墊的溫差達到了12度，所以因為氣候變遷，兒童的遊戲權其實也在受影響。所以我在想，我們在下一個階段裡面，是不是可以因應氣候變遷的關係，再把這些遮蔭設備、自然鋪面、戲水設施做為一個預算核定的標準？"],["陳院長建仁：這個我想應該按照氣候變遷的狀況，還有區域的狀況，來做相關的核定會比較合適。像這裡講的遮蔭設備，或者是自然鋪面以及戲水設施，確實可以做為很好的考量。"],["林部長右昌：我跟院長還有委員做個補充，有關特色公園的指引，遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面，設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入，至於戲水設施，除了必須考慮建置成本之外，其實後續維護跟管理的成本更大，這個會涉及地方政府是不是有財政的能力可以負擔，所以可能不會每一個公園都會設戲水設施。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我再說明一下，這三項不一定全部都需要具備，但是希望整個城市裡面儘量考量溫度的關係，造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響，所以不一定是全部都要。剛剛部長有講到涉及地方的預算，所以下一題就是講預算的問題。現在各縣市政府以六都來說，因為我過去在民間，瞭解六都相對有資源，也知道怎麼做一些維管，可是在非六都的地方，他們的預算非常吃緊，而且相對來說，他們也不知道怎麼維管，所以在這個時候，他們常常就會自己做，拆了之後被罵上報了，他們又覺得很可憐、很無辜。所以我在想我們是不是有可能在中央成立，在下一階段，第二階段結束之後，我們還會有預算持續協助地方？"],["陳院長建仁：好，預算當然會按照實際需要的情形繼續編列，也希望預算編列以後，在執行上能夠很順利地執行，這個我們一定要看，預算編列跟執行要在一起。"],["林部長右昌：這個我來補充一下，其實特色公園有不同的尺度，它也可以在不同的場域，所以經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部。我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了，過去比如說像教育部補助地方改善校園的遊戲場，其實有很多縣市是把特色公園的精神融入。"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯。"],["林部長右昌：而且它不花很多錢，可能用統包的方式，後來發現這樣子的做法之下，可以做得多又做得好又做得快，所以現在已經有這些案例跟經驗分享，這是第一個。第二個，有一些比如說是在鄰里公園，有一些是在體育場或者是運動場，有一些可能尺度更大一點，在所謂的都會公園，它都有不同的單位權管跟負責。"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯。"],["林部長右昌：如果全部都由中央……最重要的執行其實是在地方政府，我們在中央希望有一個培力的團隊，協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府，或者是包括鄉鎮市公所，幫他們做人力的培力。"],["張委員雅琳：好，部長，我瞭解你的意思。預算當然可能會來自於各部會，因為跟它相關的主管機關有差別，但是我希望院長可以全力支持不同的部會都一起推動兒童遊戲權這件事情，在能夠建設的地方我們就儘量建設、支持。再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到，因為尺度的差異非常大，地方縣市有些是非六都的地方，他們其實真的很難瞭解，我們是不是可能有一個中央的主管機關負責？因為我們從現在的組織圖上完全沒有人力可以支援，可是現在全臺灣已經超過400個特色公園，而且有2,000將近3,000個公園都在內政部之下，是不是有一個專責的人或專責的單位協助地方做這件事情？"],["陳院長建仁：專責單位的設定就像剛才講到的，因為不同的部會可能也有不同的職責……"],["張委員雅琳：但是內政部有將近3,000個，至少內政部針對這3,000個主責的縣市，是不是可以做中央的專責單位，帶領大家一起成長？不然變成各縣市做各自的。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告一下，其實並不完全是內政部權管，剛剛提到它可能涉及很多不同的部會，只是大家聽到「公園」兩個字會直覺認為是我們過去的營建署，實際上地方政府在權管的時候，它是分在不同的局處裡面。"],["陳院長建仁：對，所以在地方應該怎麼樣……中央有很重要的一個工作，就是怎麼樣empowerment，讓地方政府知道特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。未來等到他們的能力提升以後，哪一些單位應該負責，我們可以再試著跟他們溝通。"],["張委員雅琳：不然這樣子好不好？我們是不是有可能回去討論一下，到底該由誰當主責的機關來協助大家？不然像非六都的縣市真的非常辛苦，沒有知識，又沒有太多的資源可以支持他，又沒有預算的狀況之下，到底該怎麼把那邊的孩子顧好，這部分我們是不是可以會後再詳細討論一下？"],["林部長右昌：當然可以。"],["張委員雅琳：再來我也在想我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會，因為國際上其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了，自然地景設施像剛剛部長說的，可是現在臺灣各縣市承辦人員知不知道可以這樣做？其實他們是不知道的，那我們是不是可以舉辦國際研討會，把這些新的知識帶進來，讓大家一起成長呢？"],["陳院長建仁：這也是empowerment的一部分。"],["張委員雅琳：對，沒錯，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對，所以這部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦，或者跟政府一起合辦這樣的國際研討會，找最棒的單位來分享。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝院長。","接下來因為我時間有限，我現在講兒童遊戲權的部分，其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話，好像都沒有涵蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權，那他們在哪裡？他們就在手機上面玩，或是在學校讀書，我想院長也非常清楚，我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的，節節上升，兒少使用手機的時間跟他的憂鬱程度又是成正比的，大家可能會想說其實他們也不會想要去遊戲場玩。我給大家看一個影片，這是一個桃園的遊戲場，我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年做很多的挑戰，所以是真的青少年不來，還是我們沒有提供這個空間？我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。世界經濟論壇也提到，如果有足夠的挑戰性，是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率的。我作為一個媽媽，我真的非常在乎這件事情，就是每一個孩子都是家長心頭的寶貝，我們如何去創造空間，讓孩子可以學習跟休憩兼具，所以政府是不是可以補助全臺灣每一個縣市至少有一個青少的遊戲空間呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我想青少年的遊戲場，還有另外的實際上也滿重要的就是青少年的運動、活動場所，至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情，我們要跟地方政府好好的協商，看看怎麼樣……"],["張委員雅琳：大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下。"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告一下，我在地方擔任過首長。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道。"],["林部長右昌：我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的遊戲場，其實縣市政府就可以做，如果縣市長重視的話，像以前基隆那麼窮，我們自己就可以做。"],["張委員雅琳：對。"],["林部長右昌：現在我們在中央，當然可以去就全國做一個整體的規劃，我們來研究，再跟院長報告。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。","最後一個問題就是剛剛李坤城委員也有提到道安的問題，兒少事故居高不下，我想問一下，我們也編列了相關的預算去做這件事情，但是有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善？","最後我想要分享的就是北美國家交通官員協會，他們有提到我們大人知道兒童眼中的街道是什麼樣子的嗎？我們還是以成人本位的方式去改的時候，我們知道兒童視角看到的是什麼嗎？他們做了一個反轉潛望鏡，我很快地讓院長看一下，現在看不到了。"],["陳院長建仁：沒關係，你等一下提供我們相關的資料。"],["主席：謝謝張委員雅琳的質詢，後續有什麼資料要送給行政院，請逕行送交行政院，好嗎？如果要什麼資料就請行政院來答復你。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員雅琳的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，內政組之質詢現在已經詢答完畢，休息5分鐘之後，進行外交及國防組之質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時19分）","繼續開會（11時24分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","麥玉珍","范雲","陳玉珍","謝龍介","吳沛憶","李彥秀","馬文君","李坤城","沈伯洋","張雅琳","吳宗憲","徐巧芯","陳永康","楊曜","陳俊宇","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","劉建國","張嘉郡","陳超明","陳秀寳"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-03-12"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00004","1130601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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{\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 712.936, \"end\": 713.276, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 713.276, \"end\": 713.897, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 713.897, \"end\": 714.197, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 714.197, \"end\": 714.297, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 714.297, \"end\": 714.437, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 714.437, \"end\": 715.417, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 715.417, \"end\": 715.678, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 715.678, \"end\": 715.778, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 715.778, \"end\": 715.898, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 715.898, \"end\": 715.918, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 717.262, \"end\": 717.582, \"text\": \"當然可以。\", 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0.529}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:01,430\n再請陳院長跟內政部\n\n2\n00:00:36,558 --> 00:00:47,764\n市長早安首先在開始之前我想要剛剛李昆城委員也有提到就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件所以我這幾點是因為我看了這個事件之後我覺得有三個疑點\n\n3\n00:00:50,533 --> 00:01:05,740\n這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個\n\n4\n00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:24,890\n家長為什麼他沒有選擇希子路,於是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相,看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的,那還給家屬一個公道這樣子。\n\n5\n00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:52,982\n謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎\n\n6\n00:01:55,390 --> 00:02:24,078\n我想國家的這個永續的發展,這個SustainableGoal實際上是每一個國家都很重要,因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展,還有這個人權的這個保護,這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面,永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。\n\n7\n00:02:25,247 --> 00:02:50,958\n對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:52,540 --> 00:03:15,610\n我不知道,我孫子都比較大了。好,這個沒有覺得裡面有很多好像可以攀爬,可以那個玩耍的地方對不對?好,這其實是兒童的職能治療室。那其實有國外的非常多的研究都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展,可以延緩一些問題的。那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是\n\n9\n00:03:16,730 --> 00:03:30,996\n疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心急患的問題\n\n10\n00:03:33,009 --> 00:03:47,255\n再來這個我們更功利的來講從國家經濟來講世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力還有創造力。\n\n11\n00:03:50,676 --> 00:04:07,030\n再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。\n\n12\n00:04:07,671 --> 00:04:07,971\n好,這個很重要。\n\n13\n00:04:26,698 --> 00:04:51,914\n好,那因為這也是那個在法規裡面也有相關的規定喔那接下來我們就是會進入到因為就是兒少權法第2條裡面有講到是合適的遊戲空間而且強調了這個兒童跟少年喔那過去我在民間其實都是非常積極的跟公務員一起來努力我們希望一起把事情做對做好所以呢我們來看一下齁這一張圖上面那個粉紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實\n\n14\n00:04:54,380 --> 00:05:21,233\n我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何\n\n15\n00:05:25,957 --> 00:05:40,152\n第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會盡速通知地方政府來辦理。\n\n16\n00:05:42,352 --> 00:06:05,809\n我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童油氣廠的油具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子\n\n17\n00:06:06,499 --> 00:06:19,898\n沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱\n\n18\n00:06:22,882 --> 00:06:37,323\n小孩全部躲在那個躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。對,溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。沒錯,太熱了齁。那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。對,所以其實\n\n19\n00:06:37,824 --> 00:06:38,064\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n\n20\n00:06:55,026 --> 00:06:55,866\n我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充。\n\n21\n00:07:19,613 --> 00:07:44,893\n這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施\n\n22\n00:07:46,394 --> 00:08:02,950\n好,我再說明一下,這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備,但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響,所以不一定是全部都要。那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛,所以下一題就是來講預算的問題。\n\n23\n00:08:04,591 --> 00:08:33,706\n那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些圍管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做圍管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方\n\n24\n00:08:35,429 --> 00:08:35,569\n我來補充一下\n\n25\n00:08:55,419 --> 00:09:19,551\n其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢\n\n26\n00:09:20,487 --> 00:09:49,366\n他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那\n\n27\n00:09:50,746 --> 00:10:11,666\n但因為如果全部都是由中央,其實最重要執行是在地方政府。我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的團隊能夠來協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府,或者是包括鄉鎮市工作、市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利。\n\n28\n00:10:13,388 --> 00:10:39,770\n我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有的\n\n29\n00:10:40,350 --> 00:10:40,410\n主席\n\n30\n00:10:54,488 --> 00:11:14,062\n這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個主責的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專責單位呢?帶領大家一起來成長嗎?不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎?\n\n31\n00:11:14,602 --> 00:11:33,790\n其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字,會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。\n\n32\n00:11:35,388 --> 00:11:55,918\n對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。\n\n33\n00:11:57,262 --> 00:11:57,582\n當然可以。\n\n34\n00:12:23,121 --> 00:12:44,922\n那再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地警的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市城辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢\n\n35\n00:12:45,609 --> 00:13:02,199\n這也是Empowerment的一部分,對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。\n\n36\n00:13:03,764 --> 00:13:18,833\n謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩,或是在學校讀書。\n\n37\n00:13:19,773 --> 00:13:37,203\n那我想院長也非常清楚我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的節節上升那他使用手機的時間跟他憂鬱程度就是成正比的那大家可能會想說哎呀其實他們也不會想要去那個遊戲場玩那我給大家看一個影片這是一個桃園的遊戲場我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年\n\n38\n00:13:42,106 --> 00:13:45,691\n我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率。\n\n39\n00:13:58,166 --> 00:13:58,246\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n\n40\n00:14:15,238 --> 00:14:44,128\n我想青少年遊戲的遊戲場還有另外的實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年的這個運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的那至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟在地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣﹖大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下\n\n41\n00:14:44,728 --> 00:15:03,082\n委員我跟你報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長。我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。\n\n42\n00:15:03,682 --> 00:15:12,432\n但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告\n\n43\n00:15:16,724 --> 00:15:39,717\n那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題齁這兒少事故居安不下那居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童\n\n44\n00:15:59,049 --> 00:15:59,776\n謝謝專委員雅琳的諮詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t1430\t再請陳院長跟內政部\n36558\t47764\t市長早安首先在開始之前我想要剛剛李昆城委員也有提到就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件所以我這幾點是因為我看了這個事件之後我覺得有三個疑點\n50533\t65740\t這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個\n67130\t84890\t家長為什麼他沒有選擇希子路,於是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相,看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的,那還給家屬一個公道這樣子。\n86170\t112982\t謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎\n115390\t144078\t我想國家的這個永續的發展,這個Sustainable Goal實際上是每一個國家都很重要,因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展,還有這個人權的這個保護,這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面,永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。\n145247\t170958\t對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎?\n172540\t195610\t我不知道,我孫子都比較大了。好,這個沒有覺得裡面有很多好像可以攀爬,可以那個玩耍的地方對不對?好,這其實是兒童的職能治療室。那其實有國外的非常多的研究都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展,可以延緩一些問題的。那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是\n196730\t210996\t疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心急患的問題\n213009\t227255\t再來這個我們更功利的來講從國家經濟來講世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力還有創造力。\n230676\t247030\t再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。\n247671\t247971\t好,這個很重要。\n266698\t291914\t好,那因為這也是那個在法規裡面也有相關的規定喔那接下來我們就是會進入到因為就是兒少權法第2條裡面有講到是合適的遊戲空間而且強調了這個兒童跟少年喔那過去我在民間其實都是非常積極的跟公務員一起來努力我們希望一起把事情做對做好所以呢我們來看一下齁這一張圖上面那個粉紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實\n294380\t321233\t我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何\n325957\t340152\t第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。 那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會盡速通知地方政府來辦理。\n342352\t365809\t我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童油氣廠的油具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子\n366499\t379898\t沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱\n382882\t397323\t小孩全部躲在那個躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。對,溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。沒錯,太熱了齁。那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。對,所以其實\n397824\t398064\t﹚張雅琳﹚\n415026\t415866\t我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充。\n439613\t464893\t這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施\n466394\t482950\t好,我再說明一下,這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備,但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響,所以不一定是全部都要。那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛,所以下一題就是來講預算的問題。\n484591\t513706\t那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些圍管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做圍管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方\n515429\t515569\t我來補充一下\n535419\t559551\t其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢\n560487\t589366\t他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那\n590746\t611666\t但因為如果全部都是由中央,其實最重要執行是在地方政府。我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的團隊能夠來協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府,或者是包括鄉鎮市工作、市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利。\n613388\t639770\t我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有的\n640350\t640410\t主席\n654488\t674062\t這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個主責的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專責單位呢?帶領大家一起來成長嗎?不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎?\n674602\t693790\t其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字,會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。\n695388\t715918\t對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。\n717262\t717582\t當然可以。\n743121\t764922\t那再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地警的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市城辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢\n765609\t782199\t這也是Empowerment的一部分,對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。\n783764\t798833\t謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩,或是在學校讀書。\n799773\t817203\t那我想院長也非常清楚我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的節節上升那他使用手機的時間跟他憂鬱程度就是成正比的那大家可能會想說哎呀其實他們也不會想要去那個遊戲場玩那我給大家看一個影片這是一個桃園的遊戲場我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年\n822106\t825691\t我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率。\n838166\t838246\t﹚張雅琳﹚\n855238\t884128\t我想青少年遊戲的遊戲場還有另外的實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年的這個運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的那至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟在地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣﹖大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下\n884728\t903082\t委員 我跟你報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長。 我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。 這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。\n903682\t912432\t但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告\n916724\t939717\t那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題齁這兒少事故居安不下那居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童\n959049\t959776\t謝謝專委員雅琳的諮詢。\n","txt":"再請陳院長跟內政部\n市長早安首先在開始之前我想要剛剛李昆城委員也有提到就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件所以我這幾點是因為我看了這個事件之後我覺得有三個疑點\n這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個\n家長為什麼他沒有選擇希子路,於是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相,看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的,那還給家屬一個公道這樣子。\n謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎\n我想國家的這個永續的發展,這個Sustainable Goal實際上是每一個國家都很重要,因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展,還有這個人權的這個保護,這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面,永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。\n對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎?\n我不知道,我孫子都比較大了。好,這個沒有覺得裡面有很多好像可以攀爬,可以那個玩耍的地方對不對?好,這其實是兒童的職能治療室。那其實有國外的非常多的研究都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展,可以延緩一些問題的。那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是\n疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心急患的問題\n再來這個我們更功利的來講從國家經濟來講世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力還有創造力。\n再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。\n好,這個很重要。\n好,那因為這也是那個在法規裡面也有相關的規定喔那接下來我們就是會進入到因為就是兒少權法第2條裡面有講到是合適的遊戲空間而且強調了這個兒童跟少年喔那過去我在民間其實都是非常積極的跟公務員一起來努力我們希望一起把事情做對做好所以呢我們來看一下齁這一張圖上面那個粉紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實\n我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何\n第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。 那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會盡速通知地方政府來辦理。\n我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童油氣廠的油具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子\n沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱\n小孩全部躲在那個躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。對,溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。沒錯,太熱了齁。那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。對,所以其實\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充。\n這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施\n好,我再說明一下,這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備,但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響,所以不一定是全部都要。那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛,所以下一題就是來講預算的問題。\n那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些圍管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做圍管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方\n我來補充一下\n其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢\n他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那\n但因為如果全部都是由中央,其實最重要執行是在地方政府。我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的團隊能夠來協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府,或者是包括鄉鎮市工作、市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利。\n我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有的\n主席\n這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個主責的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專責單位呢?帶領大家一起來成長嗎?不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎?\n其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字,會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。\n對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。\n當然可以。\n那再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地警的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市城辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢\n這也是Empowerment的一部分,對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。\n謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩,或是在學校讀書。\n那我想院長也非常清楚我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的節節上升那他使用手機的時間跟他憂鬱程度就是成正比的那大家可能會想說哎呀其實他們也不會想要去那個遊戲場玩那我給大家看一個影片這是一個桃園的遊戲場我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年\n我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率。\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n我想青少年遊戲的遊戲場還有另外的實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年的這個運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的那至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟在地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣﹖大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下\n委員 我跟你報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長。 我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。 這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。\n但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告\n那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題齁這兒少事故居安不下那居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童\n謝謝專委員雅琳的諮詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:01.430\n再請陳院長跟內政部\n\n00:36.558 --> 00:47.764\n市長早安首先在開始之前我想要剛剛李昆城委員也有提到就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件所以我這幾點是因為我看了這個事件之後我覺得有三個疑點\n\n00:50.533 --> 01:05.740\n這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個\n\n01:07.130 --> 01:24.890\n家長為什麼他沒有選擇希子路,於是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相,看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的,那還給家屬一個公道這樣子。\n\n01:26.170 --> 01:52.982\n謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎\n\n01:55.390 --> 02:24.078\n我想國家的這個永續的發展,這個SustainableGoal實際上是每一個國家都很重要,因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展,還有這個人權的這個保護,這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面,永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。\n\n02:25.247 --> 02:50.958\n對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎?\n\n02:52.540 --> 03:15.610\n我不知道,我孫子都比較大了。好,這個沒有覺得裡面有很多好像可以攀爬,可以那個玩耍的地方對不對?好,這其實是兒童的職能治療室。那其實有國外的非常多的研究都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展,可以延緩一些問題的。那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是\n\n03:16.730 --> 03:30.996\n疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心急患的問題\n\n03:33.009 --> 03:47.255\n再來這個我們更功利的來講從國家經濟來講世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力還有創造力。\n\n03:50.676 --> 04:07.030\n再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。\n\n04:07.671 --> 04:07.971\n好,這個很重要。\n\n04:26.698 --> 04:51.914\n好,那因為這也是那個在法規裡面也有相關的規定喔那接下來我們就是會進入到因為就是兒少權法第2條裡面有講到是合適的遊戲空間而且強調了這個兒童跟少年喔那過去我在民間其實都是非常積極的跟公務員一起來努力我們希望一起把事情做對做好所以呢我們來看一下齁這一張圖上面那個粉紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實\n\n04:54.380 --> 05:21.233\n我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何\n\n05:25.957 --> 05:40.152\n第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會盡速通知地方政府來辦理。\n\n05:42.352 --> 06:05.809\n我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童油氣廠的油具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子\n\n06:06.499 --> 06:19.898\n沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱\n\n06:22.882 --> 06:37.323\n小孩全部躲在那個躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。對,溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。沒錯,太熱了齁。那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。對,所以其實\n\n06:37.824 --> 06:38.064\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n\n06:55.026 --> 06:55.866\n我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充。\n\n07:19.613 --> 07:44.893\n這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施\n\n07:46.394 --> 08:02.950\n好,我再說明一下,這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備,但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響,所以不一定是全部都要。那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛,所以下一題就是來講預算的問題。\n\n08:04.591 --> 08:33.706\n那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些圍管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做圍管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方\n\n08:35.429 --> 08:35.569\n我來補充一下\n\n08:55.419 --> 09:19.551\n其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢\n\n09:20.487 --> 09:49.366\n他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那\n\n09:50.746 --> 10:11.666\n但因為如果全部都是由中央,其實最重要執行是在地方政府。我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的團隊能夠來協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府,或者是包括鄉鎮市工作、市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利。\n\n10:13.388 --> 10:39.770\n我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有的\n\n10:40.350 --> 10:40.410\n主席\n\n10:54.488 --> 11:14.062\n這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個主責的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專責單位呢?帶領大家一起來成長嗎?不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎?\n\n11:14.602 --> 11:33.790\n其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字,會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。\n\n11:35.388 --> 11:55.918\n對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。\n\n11:57.262 --> 11:57.582\n當然可以。\n\n12:23.121 --> 12:44.922\n那再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地警的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市城辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢\n\n12:45.609 --> 13:02.199\n這也是Empowerment的一部分,對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。\n\n13:03.764 --> 13:18.833\n謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩,或是在學校讀書。\n\n13:19.773 --> 13:37.203\n那我想院長也非常清楚我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的節節上升那他使用手機的時間跟他憂鬱程度就是成正比的那大家可能會想說哎呀其實他們也不會想要去那個遊戲場玩那我給大家看一個影片這是一個桃園的遊戲場我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年\n\n13:42.106 --> 13:45.691\n我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率。\n\n13:58.166 --> 13:58.246\n﹚張雅琳﹚\n\n14:15.238 --> 14:44.128\n我想青少年遊戲的遊戲場還有另外的實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年的這個運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的那至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟在地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣﹖大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下\n\n14:44.728 --> 15:03.082\n委員我跟你報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長。我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。\n\n15:03.682 --> 15:12.432\n但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告\n\n15:16.724 --> 15:39.717\n那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題齁這兒少事故居安不下那居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童\n\n15:59.049 --> 15:59.776\n謝謝專委員雅琳的諮詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":1.43,"text":"再請陳院長跟內政部"},{"start":36.558,"end":47.764,"text":"市長早安首先在開始之前我想要剛剛李昆城委員也有提到就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件所以我這幾點是因為我看了這個事件之後我覺得有三個疑點"},{"start":50.533,"end":65.74,"text":"這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個"},{"start":67.13,"end":84.89,"text":"家長為什麼他沒有選擇希子路,於是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相,看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的,那還給家屬一個公道這樣子。"},{"start":86.17,"end":112.982,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎"},{"start":115.39,"end":144.078,"text":"我想國家的這個永續的發展,這個Sustainable Goal實際上是每一個國家都很重要,因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展,還有這個人權的這個保護,這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面,永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的。"},{"start":145.247,"end":170.958,"text":"對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎?"},{"start":172.54,"end":195.61,"text":"我不知道,我孫子都比較大了。好,這個沒有覺得裡面有很多好像可以攀爬,可以那個玩耍的地方對不對?好,這其實是兒童的職能治療室。那其實有國外的非常多的研究都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展,可以延緩一些問題的。那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是"},{"start":196.73,"end":210.996,"text":"疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心急患的問題"},{"start":213.009,"end":227.255,"text":"再來這個我們更功利的來講從國家經濟來講世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力還有創造力。"},{"start":230.676,"end":247.03,"text":"再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。"},{"start":247.671,"end":247.971,"text":"好,這個很重要。"},{"start":266.698,"end":291.914,"text":"好,那因為這也是那個在法規裡面也有相關的規定喔那接下來我們就是會進入到因為就是兒少權法第2條裡面有講到是合適的遊戲空間而且強調了這個兒童跟少年喔那過去我在民間其實都是非常積極的跟公務員一起來努力我們希望一起把事情做對做好所以呢我們來看一下齁這一張圖上面那個粉紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實"},{"start":294.38,"end":321.233,"text":"我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何"},{"start":325.957,"end":340.152,"text":"第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。 那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會盡速通知地方政府來辦理。"},{"start":342.352,"end":365.809,"text":"我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童油氣廠的油具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子"},{"start":366.499,"end":379.898,"text":"沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱"},{"start":382.882,"end":397.323,"text":"小孩全部躲在那個躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。對,溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。沒錯,太熱了齁。那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。對,所以其實"},{"start":397.824,"end":398.064,"text":"﹚張雅琳﹚"},{"start":415.026,"end":415.866,"text":"我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充。"},{"start":439.613,"end":464.893,"text":"這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施"},{"start":466.394,"end":482.95,"text":"好,我再說明一下,這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備,但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童遊戲權受損的影響,所以不一定是全部都要。那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛,所以下一題就是來講預算的問題。"},{"start":484.591,"end":513.706,"text":"那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些圍管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做圍管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方"},{"start":515.429,"end":515.569,"text":"我來補充一下"},{"start":535.419,"end":559.551,"text":"其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢"},{"start":560.487,"end":589.366,"text":"他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那"},{"start":590.746,"end":611.666,"text":"但因為如果全部都是由中央,其實最重要執行是在地方政府。我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的團隊能夠來協助做得比較沒那麼好的地方政府,或者是包括鄉鎮市工作、市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利。"},{"start":613.388,"end":639.77,"text":"我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有的"},{"start":640.35,"end":640.41,"text":"主席"},{"start":654.488,"end":674.062,"text":"這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個主責的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專責單位呢?帶領大家一起來成長嗎?不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎?"},{"start":674.602,"end":693.79,"text":"其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字,會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。"},{"start":695.388,"end":715.918,"text":"對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣。那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。"},{"start":717.262,"end":717.582,"text":"當然可以。"},{"start":743.121,"end":764.922,"text":"那再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地警的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市城辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢"},{"start":765.609,"end":782.199,"text":"這也是Empowerment的一部分,對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。"},{"start":783.764,"end":798.833,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩,或是在學校讀書。"},{"start":799.773,"end":817.203,"text":"那我想院長也非常清楚我們現在兒少自殺率其實是非常非常高的節節上升那他使用手機的時間跟他憂鬱程度就是成正比的那大家可能會想說哎呀其實他們也不會想要去那個遊戲場玩那我給大家看一個影片這是一個桃園的遊戲場我們可以看到裡面有非常多的青少年"},{"start":822.106,"end":825.691,"text":"我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間。那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率。"},{"start":838.166,"end":838.246,"text":"﹚張雅琳﹚"},{"start":855.238,"end":884.128,"text":"我想青少年遊戲的遊戲場還有另外的實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年的這個運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的那至於要補助一縣市一青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟在地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣﹖大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下"},{"start":884.728,"end":903.082,"text":"委員 我跟你報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長。 我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。 這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。"},{"start":903.682,"end":912.432,"text":"但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告"},{"start":916.724,"end":939.717,"text":"那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題齁這兒少事故居安不下那居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童"},{"start":959.049,"end":959.776,"text":"謝謝專委員雅琳的諮詢。"}]}}}}