{"id":149730,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149730","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3a8d0956074a29384af17454a0b58cd504b328b65eecebe0f8ba9b0039caa7a63b92ca8a14ff0d395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"16:26:20 - 16:41:48","影片長度":"00:15:28","會議時間":"2024-03-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議","id":"院會-11-1-4","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":4},"date":"2024-03-12","duration":928,"end_time":"2024-03-12T16:41:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-12T16:26:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":602,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（16時26分）謝謝主席，麻煩請陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：馬委員午安。"],["馬委員文君：院長午安，今天第二次見面。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！"],["馬委員文君：剛好排到經濟的部分，在這裡我還是要請教院長，我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的。就這個部分，我想先請教農民農保的問題，因為農保現在很多條件在限縮，當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題，要打擊假農民或者像這樣子的條件，我們是支持的，可是不要因為這樣，讓很多真正的農民或者過去曾經在農業付出的這些農民受到傷害。我舉幾個例子，可能包括現在其實都在發生當中，也請部長可以去重視這一塊。在此也先謝謝部長，因為前兩天我接到地方的陳情，大概就是有機肥料的部分本來是補助2塊，後來在去年2加2補助到4塊，原來可能快要停掉了，但因為考量到我們農民在這一段時間成本不斷增加，包括人力成本造成的負擔，所以又同意至少到這些預算使用完為止。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我們今天已經有發文。"],["馬委員文君：對，所以在這裡也非常感謝。可是我們還是要討論我們農保條件的限縮，像現在有很多以前可以保農保的，種樹現在不可以是不是？"],["陳代理部長駿季：種樹基本上它本身是所謂的景觀樹木那個部分，所以我們在種樹的部分是有一些條件的。"],["馬委員文君：哪一些是有條件的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：像一般林農的部分他是可以的，但是有一些像一般的園藝景觀公司，他是公司的型態去種，然後他所僱用的人其實他只是在……"],["馬委員文君：桂花是算什麼？是景觀還是……"],["陳代理部長駿季：哪一個？"],["馬委員文君：桂花。"],["陳院長建仁：桂花要看它……"],["陳代理部長駿季：他本身若是在做景觀的，他僱的人……現在就是說以公司型態僱的人……"],["馬委員文君：不是，我是說他本身就是在種樹，你有公司當然不是啊！他一定本身是農民他參與……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對……"],["馬委員文君：他是種樹，因為有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼，比如說肉桂，肉桂是景觀還是可用的？因為肉桂有藥用還有食用嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我瞭解，對。"],["馬委員文君：所以就這個部分……"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個部分我們會去檢討。"],["馬委員文君：至少你們未來要釐清……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["馬委員文君：可是在過去大家已經投保的，比如說過去歷任政府對於農民種樹的部分，其實他認為是農民，他已經繳了二、三十年的農保，你今天突然說不行，把他過去的全部取消掉，這是不合理的。政府至少要有誠信原則，如果你在未來覺得這有一些是不適宜的，那你訂落日條款，你過去已經同意人家的，人家已經付了那麼久的農保，他以前都繳農保，過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險，結果政府說停就停，這是非常不合理的，而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益，部長是不是可以就這個部分去考量？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我基本上同意您的說法，就是我們在做修改的時候，針對之前已經投保農保部分的落日條款，我們會做一些排除，我們會更嚴謹地去思考，因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的，絕對不會輕易地……"],["馬委員文君：好，因為現在已經發生，它已經把人家停掉了，所以就這個部分，我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關農會可以去……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們會來處理。"],["馬委員文君：對，可以去討論，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["馬委員文君：因為以後我們如果要去做條件的把關，我覺得那都可以，可是你讓投保的人自己很清楚地知道，過去他已經繳了那麼多了，沒有理由說停就停。他現在如果年紀已經六、七十歲，他要去保別的保險是不可能了，所以他這樣的基本保障，政府應該要去確保他的權益，這個部分部長會同意嘛？"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個我們會來做比較詳細的討論。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。就這個落日條款的部分如果可以同意，我們現在還要請教的是，現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整？"],["陳代理部長駿季：基本上我們的休耕政策，其實一個好的土地的品質維護，絕對不要去連作，連作的話會讓土壤的土質不好，所以我們有一些休耕，但是也不能連續休耕，因為連續休耕也不好。所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種，這是我們農業部所推動的方向。"],["馬委員文君：部長，就這個部分，我們好像在去年、還是今年才稍微又做了調整，以前好像是4年選1次可以休耕，現在好像2年就1次，這個會造成什麼樣的影響？就是其實現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的……"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["馬委員文君：所以一旦要休耕，他也不能擺著統統不動，他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助，所以要領這個補助的時候，他必須要除一次草，還要翻土，這些都要花錢請人家做，因為不可能是農民自己做，現在不可能用人工，所以這是一次的費用；可是當他還要再次種植的時候，他又要再花一次，等於他比過去休耕的政策要多花一次的費用，請部長回去責成相關的單位再去研究這個部分，因為我有聽到非常多的農民講這樣子……"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["馬委員文君：而且包括在幫他們翻耕的這些人，都覺得賺這個錢很不好意思。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我想跟委員說明，這可能有點誤解，剛才說2年1個休耕，那是針對我們的稻作4選3，因為2年有4期作，4期作可以種3期的水稻，我們可以收公糧，1期可以做休耕，這個跟其他的休耕政策是並行的，所以這個可能有點誤解，不過我想這個部分我們會更精準地跟農民做宣導，然後做必要的調整。"],["馬委員文君：部長，我想可能不是宣導，他們很清楚，因為成本都是他們在付，就像剛剛講的，這是針對水稻的部分，其實水稻過去我們政策有調整，所以我相信部長知道這個意思……"],["陳代理部長駿季：知道。"],["馬委員文君：所以對他們來說，他們就是多了一次的成本，可是剛剛聽到前面兩位委員提到的，就是我們提高公糧收購的價格好像又沒有辦法做到，因為剛剛說到他為什麼可以有休耕補助？是因為如果符合我們的休耕方式、調整成這樣的方式，我們才願意跟他們以公糧來收購。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["馬委員文君：所以他們也是要配合，可是對他們來說，成本就是增加，在統統沒有調整他們的價格的情況之下，又增加他們的成本，尤其像現在為什麼我們會有2加2的肥料補助？為什麼我們會有其他的相關補助？就是因為我們看到近幾年不管是人力、物料、各方面都在調漲的情況之下，會增加農民的成本。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["馬委員文君：然後你又沒有增加他公糧收購的價格，你現在又增加他這樣子的成本，其實對他們就是一個負擔，所以就這個部分請部長下去再研議看看，因為有很多的農民都提到這個部分，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["馬委員文君：主要對農民來說，如果這個金額不是很多，或者他們可以做這樣子，但是等到他們都不種的時候，我們的糧食是有問題的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["馬委員文君：我們現在看起來是以面積看，可是我們臺灣面臨最大的問題是我們的農業人口是老化的，如果這些到時候乾脆統統不要做了，我們會有問題。所以這個部分在兼顧各方面的考量，我想我們農業部其實還是可以做全盤的規劃。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我們在確保農民收益的整體規劃裡面，我們會一併把剛才講的這些水旱田輪作的部分，包括休耕的部分，我們會一併來檢討。"],["馬委員文君：好，這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["馬委員文君：希望可以不要再對農民增加負擔的情況之下，應該要把我們的政策落實照顧到農民是最好的。既然你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格時，至少不要增加他的負擔。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝。另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總處的資料顯示，現在外食的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%，這是高於長期的平均漲幅。綜合統計處分析調漲的原因，其分析的理由當然是近三年外食費有三波的上漲，第一個當然就是疫情，在110年的時候，在111年因為俄烏戰爭，黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭漲了，接下來就是112年，因為缺蛋，蛋價調高以後，對於我們所有的飲食習慣，蛋的用量非常高，所以也帶動所有外食這些漲幅。下個月又要漲電價，勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅。所以剛剛在討論的時候，我們辦公室的同仁他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個學校問卷調查，原來他們的餐費一餐可能50塊，現在有三個方案，60塊或者兩個55塊的，要看家長同不同意，是勢必要漲了，漲幅其實也是10%、20%，只是大家怎麼選擇，如果你挑55塊的，大概就是一個月牛奶沒得喝或者是麵包沒得吃；如果60塊的，就是維持原來的，可是它就是漲了10塊。","在這些所有的，不管在生活、在外食、在各方方面面其實都會漲價的情況之下，我們所有的政策推動難道一定是在這個節點嗎？因為像我們看到很多現在政府在推動新政策的時候，通常應該要把通膨的因素也要考量進去，現在通膨的情況非常的嚴重，過去電價也調高了兩次，如果連2018年已經調了三次，從3%到後面這兩年又調了19.4%，其實如果下個月又要調漲，再加上通膨、再加上很多的這些因素，其實造成很多的漲價，人民是不是可以負擔得起？接下來，其實你不只漲這些，還有包括我們的高鐵、還有包括我們的客運、還有包括我們的掛號費，現在像掛號費或餐食，這個都是省不掉的，你生病就一定要看醫生，你在外面工作，小孩子等等其實就是要吃，這些同時都漲的情況之下，對人民會造成多大的負擔，這個部分是不是可以做一個通盤的考量？在怎麼樣的情況之下，可以讓人民在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上，他要面臨的這些，還包括薪資其實漲得很少，甚至實質是負成長，就這些方面，我們有什麼樣更深刻的考量嗎？讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多。","再加上過去這幾個月，因為我們之前有做了適時的調漲，就是很多人被開罰單，早上我也提過，所有的都在花錢，這個到底可以怎麼做？讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈、剝奪感這麼這麼深，因為大家都講股市漲到兩萬點，可是那個是一枝獨秀，只有台積電跟少數幾支股票，80%的股民其實是賠錢，甚至好的傳產也是跌的，所以就這個部分，我們不希望只看到那個數據，而沒有去感受到所有人民自己深切的生活上面臨的困難，這個部分是不是請院長可以說明一下？"],["陳院長建仁：好，談到這個電價的調整，確實，剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價就從8.4%調到11%，剛好在COVID-19期間，也是在俄烏戰爭以後，全世界在燃料大量增加的這一段期間，調整的幅度都是在50%、60%，甚至有 double，加倍在做的。我們也就是為了要使物價不會因為電價的調整而有太多的波動，所以我們才壓抑了這兩次的電價調整，沒有調整到所謂的Full scale，所以這一次的電價調整，我們也會按照您的建議，會考慮到民生用電，會考慮到工業用電，而且工業用電還會考慮到這是在成長中的產業，還是還沒有完全恢復的產業，來做很細緻的調整。","電價的調整本來就是審議委員會的責任，我們會把這一些考量的因素，包括你剛才講的這些因素，也讓審議委員會來參考，這個部分經濟部實際上也是很謹慎的，我們比誰都還關心物價會上漲的部分，確實是這樣。"],["馬委員文君：就這個部分，因為時間的關係，我剛剛特別提到的，其實大家不是反對，覺得你的電價都不可以漲，而是因為我們選擇的時間點，而且現在很多東西一起漲，人民受不受得了，才是我們政府所有相關的部門應該要去考量，而且應該要去規劃、重視的，這個部分我們還是希望再有全盤的規劃，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們會做通盤考量。"],["主席：謝謝馬委員文君的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝陳院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下決定：下次會議繼續進行經濟組之質詢。現在散會，謝謝。","散會（16時42分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","麥玉珍","范雲","陳玉珍","謝龍介","吳沛憶","李彥秀","馬文君","李坤城","沈伯洋","張雅琳","吳宗憲","徐巧芯","陳永康","楊曜","陳俊宇","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","劉建國","張嘉郡","陳超明","陳秀寳"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2024-03-12"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00004","1130601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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\"end\": 925.876, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 925.876, \"end\": 926.537, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 926.537, \"end\": 926.718, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 926.718, \"end\": 926.858, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 926.858, \"end\": 926.878, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:02,532\n議員長,麻煩請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。議員長午安。今天又第二次見面。\n\n2\n00:00:14,658 --> 00:00:41,094\n剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分\n\n3\n00:00:42,495 --> 00:00:42,615\n我舉幾個例子\n\n4\n00:01:01,149 --> 00:01:01,449\n﹚馬文君\n\n5\n00:01:20,327 --> 00:01:20,647\n﹚馬文君\n\n6\n00:01:39,924 --> 00:01:45,605\n我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是?縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的\n\n7\n00:02:04,943 --> 00:02:07,084\n哪一些是有條件?桂花是算什麼?是景觀還是桂花?\n\n8\n00:02:25,402 --> 00:02:50,599\n他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的\n\n9\n00:02:50,959 --> 00:03:11,584\n因為肉桂也可以,它有藥用還有食用。我了解。對,所以就這個部分至少如果你們未來要釐清,可是在過去大家已經投保的,比如說過去所有政府我們歷任,我們在政府對於農保就是農民種樹的部分,其實它是認為是農民。\n\n10\n00:03:13,504 --> 00:03:38,789\n他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把它取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。\n\n11\n00:03:39,569 --> 00:03:46,793\n這是非常不合理的而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。這個部分部長是不是可以決定這個部分是好的?\n\n12\n00:03:46,793 --> 00:03:54,238\n我想我基本上同意您的說法就是說我們在做修改的時候針對之前已經保農保的部分\n\n13\n00:03:54,938 --> 00:04:10,536\n我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考,因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長,因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關團會可以去討論好不好?\n\n14\n00:04:13,499 --> 00:04:13,799\n我們會來做一個比較詳細的討論。\n\n15\n00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:47,620\n那就這個部分,落字條款的部分如果可以同意,我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整?\n\n16\n00:04:49,384 --> 00:05:13,166\n基本上我們的休耕政策因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護他絕對不要去連作連作的話會讓土壤的土質所以我們有一些休耕但是也不能連續休耕因為連續休耕也不好所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向\n\n17\n00:05:13,919 --> 00:05:29,020\n部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整他以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分現在好像兩年就一次\n\n18\n00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:52,017\n這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土\n\n19\n00:05:52,897 --> 00:06:14,173\n這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做雖然不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些\n\n20\n00:06:15,174 --> 00:06:18,818\n對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。\n\n21\n00:06:35,174 --> 00:06:38,576\n部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思嘛。\n\n22\n00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:24,470\n所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購\n\n23\n00:07:25,171 --> 00:07:25,311\n﹚馬文君\n\n24\n00:07:51,578 --> 00:07:51,678\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n25\n00:08:15,196 --> 00:08:15,236\n馬文君\n\n26\n00:08:45,516 --> 00:09:04,397\n這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝\n\n27\n00:09:05,959 --> 00:09:22,601\n那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅\n\n28\n00:09:23,522 --> 00:09:44,288\n那綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了\n\n29\n00:09:46,309 --> 00:10:08,842\n那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁\n\n30\n00:10:13,024 --> 00:10:32,129\n他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇\n\n31\n00:10:34,770 --> 00:10:34,910\n﹚馬文君\n\n32\n00:11:04,941 --> 00:11:18,981\n像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重\n\n33\n00:11:20,102 --> 00:11:46,318\n現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個\n\n34\n00:11:47,199 --> 00:11:47,419\n﹚馬文君\n\n35\n00:12:02,075 --> 00:12:02,255\n﹚馬文君\n\n36\n00:12:17,648 --> 00:12:33,819\n在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的\n\n37\n00:12:35,020 --> 00:12:49,657\n更深刻的考量嗎?讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。\n\n38\n00:12:50,498 --> 00:13:06,144\n那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢\n\n39\n00:13:08,525 --> 00:13:11,147\n談到這個電價的調整,確實啦,你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價呢,\n\n40\n00:13:34,653 --> 00:13:34,933\n﹚馬文君\n\n41\n00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:53,499\n﹚馬文君\n\n42\n00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:32,400\n您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在比較還沒有完全恢復的產業來做很細緻的調整那電價的調整本來就是審議委員會\n\n43\n00:14:33,601 --> 00:14:33,841\n﹚馬文君\n\n44\n00:14:47,617 --> 00:14:47,917\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n45\n00:15:19,599 --> 00:15:26,878\n謝謝馬文君的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t2532\t議員長,麻煩請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。議員長午安。今天又第二次見面。\n14658\t41094\t剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分\n42495\t42615\t我舉幾個例子\n61149\t61449\t﹚馬文君\n80327\t80647\t﹚馬文君\n99924\t105605\t我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是?縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的\n124943\t127084\t哪一些是有條件?桂花是算什麼?是景觀還是桂花?\n145402\t170599\t他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的\n170959\t191584\t因為肉桂也可以,它有藥用還有食用。 我了解。對,所以就這個部分至少如果你們未來要釐清,可是在過去大家已經投保的,比如說過去所有政府我們歷任,我們在政府對於農保就是農民種樹的部分,其實它是認為是農民。\n193504\t218789\t他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把它取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。\n219569\t226793\t這是非常不合理的而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。 這個部分部長是不是可以決定這個部分是好的?\n226793\t234238\t我想我基本上同意您的說法就是說我們在做修改的時候針對之前已經保農保的部分\n234938\t250536\t我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考,因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長,因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關團會可以去討論好不好?\n253499\t253799\t我們會來做一個比較詳細的討論。\n278760\t287620\t那就這個部分,落字條款的部分如果可以同意,我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整?\n289384\t313166\t基本上我們的休耕政策因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護他絕對不要去連作連作的話會讓土壤的土質所以我們有一些休耕但是也不能連續休耕因為連續休耕也不好所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向\n313919\t329020\t部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整他以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分現在好像兩年就一次\n329940\t352017\t這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土\n352897\t374173\t這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做雖然不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些\n375174\t378818\t對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。\n395174\t398576\t部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思嘛。\n423050\t444470\t所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購\n445171\t445311\t﹚馬文君\n471578\t471678\t﹚馬文君﹚\n495196\t495236\t馬文君\n525516\t544397\t這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝\n545959\t562601\t那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅\n563522\t584288\t那綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了\n586309\t608842\t那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁\n613024\t632129\t他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇\n634770\t634910\t﹚馬文君\n664941\t678981\t像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重\n680102\t706318\t現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個\n707199\t707419\t﹚馬文君\n722075\t722255\t﹚馬文君\n737648\t753819\t在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的\n755020\t769657\t更深刻的考量嗎?讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。\n770498\t786144\t那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢\n788525\t791147\t談到這個電價的調整,確實啦,你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價呢,\n814653\t814933\t﹚馬文君\n833399\t833499\t﹚馬文君\n853550\t872400\t您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在比較還沒有完全恢復的產業來做很細緻的調整那電價的調整本來就是審議委員會\n873601\t873841\t﹚馬文君\n887617\t887917\t﹚馬文君﹚\n919599\t926878\t謝謝馬文君的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。\n","txt":"議員長,麻煩請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。議員長午安。今天又第二次見面。\n剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分\n我舉幾個例子\n﹚馬文君\n﹚馬文君\n我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是?縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的\n哪一些是有條件?桂花是算什麼?是景觀還是桂花?\n他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的\n因為肉桂也可以,它有藥用還有食用。 我了解。對,所以就這個部分至少如果你們未來要釐清,可是在過去大家已經投保的,比如說過去所有政府我們歷任,我們在政府對於農保就是農民種樹的部分,其實它是認為是農民。\n他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把它取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。\n這是非常不合理的而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。 這個部分部長是不是可以決定這個部分是好的?\n我想我基本上同意您的說法就是說我們在做修改的時候針對之前已經保農保的部分\n我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考,因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長,因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關團會可以去討論好不好?\n我們會來做一個比較詳細的討論。\n那就這個部分,落字條款的部分如果可以同意,我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整?\n基本上我們的休耕政策因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護他絕對不要去連作連作的話會讓土壤的土質所以我們有一些休耕但是也不能連續休耕因為連續休耕也不好所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向\n部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整他以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分現在好像兩年就一次\n這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土\n這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做雖然不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些\n對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。\n部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思嘛。\n所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購\n﹚馬文君\n﹚馬文君﹚\n馬文君\n這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝\n那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅\n那綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了\n那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁\n他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇\n﹚馬文君\n像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重\n現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個\n﹚馬文君\n﹚馬文君\n在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的\n更深刻的考量嗎?讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。\n那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢\n談到這個電價的調整,確實啦,你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價呢,\n﹚馬文君\n﹚馬文君\n您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在比較還沒有完全恢復的產業來做很細緻的調整那電價的調整本來就是審議委員會\n﹚馬文君\n﹚馬文君﹚\n謝謝馬文君的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:02.532\n議員長,麻煩請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。議員長午安。今天又第二次見面。\n\n00:14.658 --> 00:41.094\n剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分\n\n00:42.495 --> 00:42.615\n我舉幾個例子\n\n01:01.149 --> 01:01.449\n﹚馬文君\n\n01:20.327 --> 01:20.647\n﹚馬文君\n\n01:39.924 --> 01:45.605\n我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是?縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的\n\n02:04.943 --> 02:07.084\n哪一些是有條件?桂花是算什麼?是景觀還是桂花?\n\n02:25.402 --> 02:50.599\n他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的\n\n02:50.959 --> 03:11.584\n因為肉桂也可以,它有藥用還有食用。我了解。對,所以就這個部分至少如果你們未來要釐清,可是在過去大家已經投保的,比如說過去所有政府我們歷任,我們在政府對於農保就是農民種樹的部分,其實它是認為是農民。\n\n03:13.504 --> 03:38.789\n他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把它取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。\n\n03:39.569 --> 03:46.793\n這是非常不合理的而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。這個部分部長是不是可以決定這個部分是好的?\n\n03:46.793 --> 03:54.238\n我想我基本上同意您的說法就是說我們在做修改的時候針對之前已經保農保的部分\n\n03:54.938 --> 04:10.536\n我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考,因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長,因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關團會可以去討論好不好?\n\n04:13.499 --> 04:13.799\n我們會來做一個比較詳細的討論。\n\n04:38.760 --> 04:47.620\n那就這個部分,落字條款的部分如果可以同意,我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整?\n\n04:49.384 --> 05:13.166\n基本上我們的休耕政策因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護他絕對不要去連作連作的話會讓土壤的土質所以我們有一些休耕但是也不能連續休耕因為連續休耕也不好所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向\n\n05:13.919 --> 05:29.020\n部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整他以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分現在好像兩年就一次\n\n05:29.940 --> 05:52.017\n這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土\n\n05:52.897 --> 06:14.173\n這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做雖然不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些\n\n06:15.174 --> 06:18.818\n對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。\n\n06:35.174 --> 06:38.576\n部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思嘛。\n\n07:03.050 --> 07:24.470\n所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購\n\n07:25.171 --> 07:25.311\n﹚馬文君\n\n07:51.578 --> 07:51.678\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n08:15.196 --> 08:15.236\n馬文君\n\n08:45.516 --> 09:04.397\n這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝\n\n09:05.959 --> 09:22.601\n那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅\n\n09:23.522 --> 09:44.288\n那綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了\n\n09:46.309 --> 10:08.842\n那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁\n\n10:13.024 --> 10:32.129\n他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇\n\n10:34.770 --> 10:34.910\n﹚馬文君\n\n11:04.941 --> 11:18.981\n像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重\n\n11:20.102 --> 11:46.318\n現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個\n\n11:47.199 --> 11:47.419\n﹚馬文君\n\n12:02.075 --> 12:02.255\n﹚馬文君\n\n12:17.648 --> 12:33.819\n在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的\n\n12:35.020 --> 12:49.657\n更深刻的考量嗎?讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。\n\n12:50.498 --> 13:06.144\n那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢\n\n13:08.525 --> 13:11.147\n談到這個電價的調整,確實啦,你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價呢,\n\n13:34.653 --> 13:34.933\n﹚馬文君\n\n13:53.399 --> 13:53.499\n﹚馬文君\n\n14:13.550 --> 14:32.400\n您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在比較還沒有完全恢復的產業來做很細緻的調整那電價的調整本來就是審議委員會\n\n14:33.601 --> 14:33.841\n﹚馬文君\n\n14:47.617 --> 14:47.917\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n15:19.599 --> 15:26.878\n謝謝馬文君的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":2.532,"text":"議員長,麻煩請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。議員長午安。今天又第二次見面。"},{"start":14.658,"end":41.094,"text":"剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分"},{"start":42.495,"end":42.615,"text":"我舉幾個例子"},{"start":61.149,"end":61.449,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":80.327,"end":80.647,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":99.924,"end":105.605,"text":"我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是?縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的"},{"start":124.943,"end":127.084,"text":"哪一些是有條件?桂花是算什麼?是景觀還是桂花?"},{"start":145.402,"end":170.599,"text":"他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的"},{"start":170.959,"end":191.584,"text":"因為肉桂也可以,它有藥用還有食用。 我了解。對,所以就這個部分至少如果你們未來要釐清,可是在過去大家已經投保的,比如說過去所有政府我們歷任,我們在政府對於農保就是農民種樹的部分,其實它是認為是農民。"},{"start":193.504,"end":218.789,"text":"他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把它取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。"},{"start":219.569,"end":226.793,"text":"這是非常不合理的而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。 這個部分部長是不是可以決定這個部分是好的?"},{"start":226.793,"end":234.238,"text":"我想我基本上同意您的說法就是說我們在做修改的時候針對之前已經保農保的部分"},{"start":234.938,"end":250.536,"text":"我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考,因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長,因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關團會可以去討論好不好?"},{"start":253.499,"end":253.799,"text":"我們會來做一個比較詳細的討論。"},{"start":278.76,"end":287.62,"text":" 那就這個部分,落字條款的部分如果可以同意,我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整?"},{"start":289.384,"end":313.166,"text":"基本上我們的休耕政策因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護他絕對不要去連作連作的話會讓土壤的土質所以我們有一些休耕但是也不能連續休耕因為連續休耕也不好所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向"},{"start":313.919,"end":329.02,"text":"部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整他以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分現在好像兩年就一次"},{"start":329.94,"end":352.017,"text":"這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土"},{"start":352.897,"end":374.173,"text":"這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做雖然不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些"},{"start":375.174,"end":378.818,"text":"對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。"},{"start":395.174,"end":398.576,"text":"部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思嘛。"},{"start":423.05,"end":444.47,"text":"所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購"},{"start":445.171,"end":445.311,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":471.578,"end":471.678,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":495.196,"end":495.236,"text":"馬文君"},{"start":525.516,"end":544.397,"text":"這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝"},{"start":545.959,"end":562.601,"text":"那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅"},{"start":563.522,"end":584.288,"text":"那綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃小玉這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了"},{"start":586.309,"end":608.842,"text":"那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁"},{"start":613.024,"end":632.129,"text":"他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇"},{"start":634.77,"end":634.91,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":664.941,"end":678.981,"text":"像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重"},{"start":680.102,"end":706.318,"text":"現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個"},{"start":707.199,"end":707.419,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":722.075,"end":722.255,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":737.648,"end":753.819,"text":"在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的"},{"start":755.02,"end":769.657,"text":"更深刻的考量嗎?讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。"},{"start":770.498,"end":786.144,"text":"那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢"},{"start":788.525,"end":791.147,"text":"談到這個電價的調整,確實啦,你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價呢,"},{"start":814.653,"end":814.933,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":833.399,"end":833.499,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":853.55,"end":872.4,"text":"您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在比較還沒有完全恢復的產業來做很細緻的調整那電價的調整本來就是審議委員會"},{"start":873.601,"end":873.841,"text":"﹚馬文君"},{"start":887.617,"end":887.917,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":919.599,"end":926.878,"text":"謝謝馬文君的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。"}]}}}}