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capacity，它的產能過剩的問題，其實在未來兩、三年會越來越明顯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的生產廠家而言，他們認為在這一種我們電價還有這些相關的關稅談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下，讓他們在臺灣生產變成非常非常嚴峻的問題，這也會造成失業率的問題等等。"],["王部長美花：這個部分兩個面向，一個就是說事實上臺灣有一個非常綿密的供應鏈，所以在臺灣的好處有臺灣的優點，另外一方面就是電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢，所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對中小企業低碳化、智慧化的部分，讓它節省相關的支出，而且坦白講，國際客戶也好或者它的供應鏈也都會看它有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳工作，所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業，委員如果有需要，我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有，其實我有看到我們的PPI跟CPI指數，每一次電價上漲，你看電價如果調整的時候，PPI就是生產物價指數，製造端的生產成本就增加嘛！所以造成整個兩個都是雙漲的情況，代表了我們只要漲電價，它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者身上，所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的，民生電價的部分，如果你已經漲工業電價，其實就會影響到民生的消費者指數了，未來如果再漲民生電價，等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價，全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升。"],["王部長美花：這個部分我們確實像上一次、兩次，我們就有一些經驗，讓這個對國內物價的部分的衝擊怎麼樣可以降到最小等等。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是前面兩次都沒有民生嘛！對不對？"],["王部長美花：其實小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分，確實都有依用電量的大小做不同的規劃，這個就是在過去的兩次漲價裡面不斷地在優化的相關機制。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是我必須要告訴部長，從歷史的數字看來，只要工業的電價漲，對於物價指數就會造成連動性的，這是連動性，從PPI跟CPI來看就是連動性的漲幅，所以你必須要看。再來就是3月15號聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是？這個也會影響到製造業者，是不是？"],["王部長美花：相關的碳費審議環境部會開始來召開……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道，可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注，是不是？"],["王部長美花：我們會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們目前掌握的情況是如何？"],["王部長美花：因為第一次好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開，之前我們其實也有跟產業界做非常多的溝通，我們也會把產業界的意見反映給環境部。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果現在電價也漲，然後未來馬上又開徵碳費的情況下，對於製造端會產生什麼樣的影響？今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%，我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率？"],["王部長美花：所以相關的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會影響，對不對？現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢，但是在這種雙重的影響下，漲電價然後開徵碳費，會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響，經濟部的評估是怎麼樣？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員提醒，所以在經濟部的電價部分，我們才會一直爭取政府的補貼做最優先，相關的影響、產業的通膨、PPI等等，我們也會非常審慎，不過確實臺灣電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多，甚至我們看到韓電，它在去年底已經轉虧為盈了，韓電漲了84%等等，所以對於臺灣來講，我們確實是更為謹慎來調漲相關的電價，當然我們最希望是政府可以比較多的補貼。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔代）：謝謝，我們再請張啓楷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:32,834\n現在目前這個相關的工作小組正在相關的討論當中是執掌工業大戶然後像那個半導體業者應該這樣講就是說我們這幾天也讓大家知道對於台電的這個財務的虧損確實是蠻大的\n\n3\n00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:58,001\n所以我們第一個優先來爭取政府的補貼第二個對電價調整的話也都會像以前一樣來細緻考量不同的產業別還有住宅小商家跟產業的部分做不同的情形來做相關的討論\n\n4\n00:01:14,767 --> 00:01:29,326\n我們知道對於傳產業者他們也有一些意見就是說其實我們看到從去年就是說從今年初我們的那個就是ECFA的十二項實話的終止以後\n\n5\n00:01:30,868 --> 00:01:30,888\n韓國瑜議員\n\n6\n00:01:48,339 --> 00:02:03,534\n因為很多國外的買家跟他們要求就是你也知道就所謂的臺灣家他希望在臺灣以外的東南亞再設置新的生產的基地那對於\n\n7\n00:02:04,655 --> 00:02:06,877\n對於台灣的經濟當然我們知道說經濟部現在你規劃的是我們朝向高職化的但是在這個銜接的過程當中其實我們還是有非常多調節上面的問題是不是\n\n8\n00:02:30,771 --> 00:02:34,152\n謝謝委員那確實有幾個不同的面向那包括比如說石化業好了那我們其實這個在這個去年開始就跟石化業非常密集來討論石化業確實怎麼樣升級轉型以及做國際的分散佈局那所以我們今年會特別石化業剛才我也提到連結這個機械甚至紡織一起來打新興市場那這個政府確實每個禮拜\n\n9\n00:02:58,297 --> 00:02:58,317\n韓國瑜議員\n\n10\n00:03:23,383 --> 00:03:26,866\n面對現在的國際情形臺灣的強項那怎麼樣做更好的一個爭取戰其實都一定會要趕快加速特別是有幾個產業中國其實有一點這個overcapacity他的產能過剩的問題其實在未來的兩三年會越來越明顯\n\n11\n00:03:43,058 --> 00:04:07,951\n但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的這些生產的廠家而言他們認為說就是說在這種我們電價還有這些相關的就是關稅的談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下讓他們在台灣生產變成非常嚴峻的問題那這也會造成失業率的問題等等的\n\n12\n00:04:08,251 --> 00:04:09,992\n當然這個部分兩個面向一個就是說事實上台灣是有一個非常綿密的供應鏈所以在台灣的好處有台灣的優點那另外一方面就是說電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢\n\n13\n00:04:24,961 --> 00:04:52,378\n所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對這個中小企業他低碳化智慧化的部分來讓他節省相關的支出而且坦白講那個國際客戶也好或者他的供應鏈也都會看他有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳的工作那所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業那委員如果有需要我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流\n\n14\n00:04:53,138 --> 00:05:18,672\n還有其實我有看到那個我們的PPI跟CPI的指數那每一次的電價上漲的你看電價如果調整的時候PPI就是生產物價指數那就是製造端所就是說它的生產成本就增加那所以造成就是整個兩個都是雙漲的情況那代表了我們只要漲電價它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者的身上\n\n15\n00:05:19,252 --> 00:05:46,050\n所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的民生電價的部分如果你已經漲工業電價其實就會影響到民生的這個就是消費者的指數了那未來如果再漲民生電價那就是等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價那全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升\n\n16\n00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:47,471\n但是前面兩次都沒有名聲,對不對?\n\n17\n00:06:01,787 --> 00:06:26,215\n小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分確實都有做不同的你用電量的大小做不同的一個規劃那這個就是在過去的兩次的漲價裡面不斷的在優化這個相關的一個機制可是我必須要告訴部長從這個歷史的數字看來只要你就是工業的電價漲\n\n18\n00:06:27,495 --> 00:06:49,106\n那對於就是物價指數就會造成聯動性的這是聯動性從PPI跟CPI來看就是聯動性的這樣子的長幅所以你必須要看再來就是3月15日聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是那這個也會影響到\n\n19\n00:06:50,487 --> 00:06:59,173\n制造業者是不是相關的碳費的審議這邊是環境部會開始來召開我知道可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注我們會我們其實目前掌握情況是如何的因為第一次下個好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開那之前我們其實也有跟產業界有做非常多的溝通我們也會把產業界的這些意見也有反映給這個環境部\n\n20\n00:07:19,426 --> 00:07:32,335\n如果現在電價也漲然後未來馬上又開偵探費的情況下那對於製造端會產生什麼樣影響那今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%那我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率啊\n\n21\n00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:45,202\n所以這個相關的會不會影響啊對不對我們現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢但是在這種雙重的影響下漲電價然後開徵碳費會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響那經濟部的評估是怎麼樣謝謝委員提醒那所以在經濟部的電價部分那所以我們才會一直來爭取政府的補貼做最優先\n\n22\n00:08:09,292 --> 00:08:11,873\n那那個相關的這個影響產業的通膨PPI等等我們也會非常審慎那不過就是說確實臺灣的這個電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多那甚至我們看到韓電他在去年底已經變成轉虧為盈了他甚至都還那他就是韓電漲了84%等等那所以對臺灣來講我們確實是更為謹慎\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12016\t22725\t謝謝主席。我想要請王部長。請王部長。到底現在電價是要漲多少?\n27852\t32834\t現在目前這個相關的工作小組正在相關的討論當中是執掌工業大戶然後像那個半導體業者應該這樣講就是說我們這幾天也讓大家知道對於台電的這個財務的虧損確實是蠻大的\n55820\t58001\t所以我們第一個優先來爭取政府的補貼第二個對電價調整的話也都會像以前一樣來細緻考量不同的產業別還有住宅小商家跟產業的部分做不同的情形來做相關的討論\n74767\t89326\t我們知道對於傳產業者他們也有一些意見就是說其實我們看到從去年就是說從今年初我們的那個就是ECFA的十二項實話的終止以後\n90868\t90888\t韓國瑜議員\n108339\t123534\t因為很多國外的買家跟他們要求就是你也知道就所謂的臺灣家他希望在臺灣以外的東南亞再設置新的生產的基地那對於\n124655\t126877\t對於台灣的經濟當然我們知道說經濟部現在你規劃的是我們朝向高職化的但是在這個銜接的過程當中其實我們還是有非常多調節上面的問題是不是\n150771\t154152\t謝謝委員那確實有幾個不同的面向那包括比如說石化業好了那我們其實這個在這個去年開始就跟石化業非常密集來討論石化業確實怎麼樣升級轉型以及做國際的分散佈局那所以我們今年會特別石化業剛才我也提到連結這個機械甚至紡織一起來打新興市場那這個政府確實每個禮拜\n178297\t178317\t韓國瑜議員\n203383\t206866\t面對現在的國際情形臺灣的強項那怎麼樣做更好的一個爭取戰其實都一定會要趕快加速特別是有幾個產業中國其實有一點這個over capacity他的產能過剩的問題其實在未來的兩三年會越來越明顯\n223058\t247951\t但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的這些生產的廠家而言他們認為說就是說在這種我們電價還有這些相關的就是關稅的談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下讓他們在台灣生產變成非常嚴峻的問題那這也會造成失業率的問題等等的\n248251\t249992\t當然這個部分兩個面向一個就是說事實上台灣是有一個非常綿密的供應鏈所以在台灣的好處有台灣的優點那另外一方面就是說電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢\n264961\t292378\t所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對這個中小企業他低碳化智慧化的部分來讓他節省相關的支出而且坦白講那個國際客戶也好或者他的供應鏈也都會看他有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳的工作那所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業那委員如果有需要我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流\n293138\t318672\t還有其實我有看到那個我們的PPI跟CPI的指數那每一次的電價上漲的你看電價如果調整的時候PPI就是生產物價指數那就是製造端所就是說它的生產成本就增加那所以造成就是整個兩個都是雙漲的情況那代表了我們只要漲電價它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者的身上\n319252\t346050\t所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的民生電價的部分如果你已經漲工業電價其實就會影響到民生的這個就是消費者的指數了那未來如果再漲民生電價那就是等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價那全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升\n346950\t347471\t但是前面兩次都沒有名聲,對不對?\n361787\t386215\t小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分確實都有做不同的你用電量的大小做不同的一個規劃那這個就是在過去的兩次的漲價裡面不斷的在優化這個相關的一個機制可是我必須要告訴部長從這個歷史的數字看來只要你就是工業的電價漲\n387495\t409106\t那對於就是物價指數就會造成聯動性的這是聯動性從PPI跟CPI來看就是聯動性的這樣子的長幅所以你必須要看再來就是3月15日聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是那這個也會影響到\n410487\t419173\t制造業者是不是相關的碳費的審議這邊是環境部會開始來召開我知道可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注我們會我們其實目前掌握情況是如何的因為第一次下個好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開那之前我們其實也有跟產業界有做非常多的溝通我們也會把產業界的這些意見也有反映給這個環境部\n439426\t452335\t如果現在電價也漲然後未來馬上又開偵探費的情況下那對於製造端會產生什麼樣影響那今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%那我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率啊\n459660\t465202\t所以這個相關的會不會影響啊對不對我們現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢但是在這種雙重的影響下漲電價然後開徵碳費會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響那經濟部的評估是怎麼樣謝謝委員提醒那所以在經濟部的電價部分那所以我們才會一直來爭取政府的補貼做最優先\n489292\t491873\t那那個相關的這個影響產業的通膨PPI等等我們也會非常審慎那不過就是說確實臺灣的這個電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多那甚至我們看到韓電他在去年底已經變成轉虧為盈了他甚至都還那他就是韓電漲了84%等等那所以對臺灣來講我們確實是更為謹慎\n517739\t526067\t﹚\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我想要請王部長。請王部長。到底現在電價是要漲多少?\n現在目前這個相關的工作小組正在相關的討論當中是執掌工業大戶然後像那個半導體業者應該這樣講就是說我們這幾天也讓大家知道對於台電的這個財務的虧損確實是蠻大的\n所以我們第一個優先來爭取政府的補貼第二個對電價調整的話也都會像以前一樣來細緻考量不同的產業別還有住宅小商家跟產業的部分做不同的情形來做相關的討論\n我們知道對於傳產業者他們也有一些意見就是說其實我們看到從去年就是說從今年初我們的那個就是ECFA的十二項實話的終止以後\n韓國瑜議員\n因為很多國外的買家跟他們要求就是你也知道就所謂的臺灣家他希望在臺灣以外的東南亞再設置新的生產的基地那對於\n對於台灣的經濟當然我們知道說經濟部現在你規劃的是我們朝向高職化的但是在這個銜接的過程當中其實我們還是有非常多調節上面的問題是不是\n謝謝委員那確實有幾個不同的面向那包括比如說石化業好了那我們其實這個在這個去年開始就跟石化業非常密集來討論石化業確實怎麼樣升級轉型以及做國際的分散佈局那所以我們今年會特別石化業剛才我也提到連結這個機械甚至紡織一起來打新興市場那這個政府確實每個禮拜\n韓國瑜議員\n面對現在的國際情形臺灣的強項那怎麼樣做更好的一個爭取戰其實都一定會要趕快加速特別是有幾個產業中國其實有一點這個over capacity他的產能過剩的問題其實在未來的兩三年會越來越明顯\n但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的這些生產的廠家而言他們認為說就是說在這種我們電價還有這些相關的就是關稅的談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下讓他們在台灣生產變成非常嚴峻的問題那這也會造成失業率的問題等等的\n當然這個部分兩個面向一個就是說事實上台灣是有一個非常綿密的供應鏈所以在台灣的好處有台灣的優點那另外一方面就是說電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢\n所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對這個中小企業他低碳化智慧化的部分來讓他節省相關的支出而且坦白講那個國際客戶也好或者他的供應鏈也都會看他有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳的工作那所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業那委員如果有需要我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流\n還有其實我有看到那個我們的PPI跟CPI的指數那每一次的電價上漲的你看電價如果調整的時候PPI就是生產物價指數那就是製造端所就是說它的生產成本就增加那所以造成就是整個兩個都是雙漲的情況那代表了我們只要漲電價它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者的身上\n所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的民生電價的部分如果你已經漲工業電價其實就會影響到民生的這個就是消費者的指數了那未來如果再漲民生電價那就是等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價那全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升\n但是前面兩次都沒有名聲,對不對?\n小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分確實都有做不同的你用電量的大小做不同的一個規劃那這個就是在過去的兩次的漲價裡面不斷的在優化這個相關的一個機制可是我必須要告訴部長從這個歷史的數字看來只要你就是工業的電價漲\n那對於就是物價指數就會造成聯動性的這是聯動性從PPI跟CPI來看就是聯動性的這樣子的長幅所以你必須要看再來就是3月15日聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是那這個也會影響到\n制造業者是不是相關的碳費的審議這邊是環境部會開始來召開我知道可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注我們會我們其實目前掌握情況是如何的因為第一次下個好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開那之前我們其實也有跟產業界有做非常多的溝通我們也會把產業界的這些意見也有反映給這個環境部\n如果現在電價也漲然後未來馬上又開偵探費的情況下那對於製造端會產生什麼樣影響那今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%那我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率啊\n所以這個相關的會不會影響啊對不對我們現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢但是在這種雙重的影響下漲電價然後開徵碳費會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響那經濟部的評估是怎麼樣謝謝委員提醒那所以在經濟部的電價部分那所以我們才會一直來爭取政府的補貼做最優先\n那那個相關的這個影響產業的通膨PPI等等我們也會非常審慎那不過就是說確實臺灣的這個電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多那甚至我們看到韓電他在去年底已經變成轉虧為盈了他甚至都還那他就是韓電漲了84%等等那所以對臺灣來講我們確實是更為謹慎\n﹚\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.016 --> 00:22.725\n謝謝主席。我想要請王部長。請王部長。到底現在電價是要漲多少?\n\n00:27.852 --> 00:32.834\n現在目前這個相關的工作小組正在相關的討論當中是執掌工業大戶然後像那個半導體業者應該這樣講就是說我們這幾天也讓大家知道對於台電的這個財務的虧損確實是蠻大的\n\n00:55.820 --> 00:58.001\n所以我們第一個優先來爭取政府的補貼第二個對電價調整的話也都會像以前一樣來細緻考量不同的產業別還有住宅小商家跟產業的部分做不同的情形來做相關的討論\n\n01:14.767 --> 01:29.326\n我們知道對於傳產業者他們也有一些意見就是說其實我們看到從去年就是說從今年初我們的那個就是ECFA的十二項實話的終止以後\n\n01:30.868 --> 01:30.888\n韓國瑜議員\n\n01:48.339 --> 02:03.534\n因為很多國外的買家跟他們要求就是你也知道就所謂的臺灣家他希望在臺灣以外的東南亞再設置新的生產的基地那對於\n\n02:04.655 --> 02:06.877\n對於台灣的經濟當然我們知道說經濟部現在你規劃的是我們朝向高職化的但是在這個銜接的過程當中其實我們還是有非常多調節上面的問題是不是\n\n02:30.771 --> 02:34.152\n謝謝委員那確實有幾個不同的面向那包括比如說石化業好了那我們其實這個在這個去年開始就跟石化業非常密集來討論石化業確實怎麼樣升級轉型以及做國際的分散佈局那所以我們今年會特別石化業剛才我也提到連結這個機械甚至紡織一起來打新興市場那這個政府確實每個禮拜\n\n02:58.297 --> 02:58.317\n韓國瑜議員\n\n03:23.383 --> 03:26.866\n面對現在的國際情形臺灣的強項那怎麼樣做更好的一個爭取戰其實都一定會要趕快加速特別是有幾個產業中國其實有一點這個overcapacity他的產能過剩的問題其實在未來的兩三年會越來越明顯\n\n03:43.058 --> 04:07.951\n但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的這些生產的廠家而言他們認為說就是說在這種我們電價還有這些相關的就是關稅的談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下讓他們在台灣生產變成非常嚴峻的問題那這也會造成失業率的問題等等的\n\n04:08.251 --> 04:09.992\n當然這個部分兩個面向一個就是說事實上台灣是有一個非常綿密的供應鏈所以在台灣的好處有台灣的優點那另外一方面就是說電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢\n\n04:24.961 --> 04:52.378\n所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對這個中小企業他低碳化智慧化的部分來讓他節省相關的支出而且坦白講那個國際客戶也好或者他的供應鏈也都會看他有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳的工作那所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業那委員如果有需要我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流\n\n04:53.138 --> 05:18.672\n還有其實我有看到那個我們的PPI跟CPI的指數那每一次的電價上漲的你看電價如果調整的時候PPI就是生產物價指數那就是製造端所就是說它的生產成本就增加那所以造成就是整個兩個都是雙漲的情況那代表了我們只要漲電價它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者的身上\n\n05:19.252 --> 05:46.050\n所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的民生電價的部分如果你已經漲工業電價其實就會影響到民生的這個就是消費者的指數了那未來如果再漲民生電價那就是等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價那全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升\n\n05:46.950 --> 05:47.471\n但是前面兩次都沒有名聲,對不對?\n\n06:01.787 --> 06:26.215\n小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分確實都有做不同的你用電量的大小做不同的一個規劃那這個就是在過去的兩次的漲價裡面不斷的在優化這個相關的一個機制可是我必須要告訴部長從這個歷史的數字看來只要你就是工業的電價漲\n\n06:27.495 --> 06:49.106\n那對於就是物價指數就會造成聯動性的這是聯動性從PPI跟CPI來看就是聯動性的這樣子的長幅所以你必須要看再來就是3月15日聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是那這個也會影響到\n\n06:50.487 --> 06:59.173\n制造業者是不是相關的碳費的審議這邊是環境部會開始來召開我知道可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注我們會我們其實目前掌握情況是如何的因為第一次下個好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開那之前我們其實也有跟產業界有做非常多的溝通我們也會把產業界的這些意見也有反映給這個環境部\n\n07:19.426 --> 07:32.335\n如果現在電價也漲然後未來馬上又開偵探費的情況下那對於製造端會產生什麼樣影響那今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%那我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率啊\n\n07:39.660 --> 07:45.202\n所以這個相關的會不會影響啊對不對我們現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢但是在這種雙重的影響下漲電價然後開徵碳費會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響那經濟部的評估是怎麼樣謝謝委員提醒那所以在經濟部的電價部分那所以我們才會一直來爭取政府的補貼做最優先\n\n08:09.292 --> 08:11.873\n那那個相關的這個影響產業的通膨PPI等等我們也會非常審慎那不過就是說確實臺灣的這個電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多那甚至我們看到韓電他在去年底已經變成轉虧為盈了他甚至都還那他就是韓電漲了84%等等那所以對臺灣來講我們確實是更為謹慎\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.016,"end":22.725,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請王部長。請王部長。到底現在電價是要漲多少?"},{"start":27.852,"end":32.834,"text":"現在目前這個相關的工作小組正在相關的討論當中是執掌工業大戶然後像那個半導體業者應該這樣講就是說我們這幾天也讓大家知道對於台電的這個財務的虧損確實是蠻大的"},{"start":55.82,"end":58.001,"text":"所以我們第一個優先來爭取政府的補貼第二個對電價調整的話也都會像以前一樣來細緻考量不同的產業別還有住宅小商家跟產業的部分做不同的情形來做相關的討論"},{"start":74.767,"end":89.326,"text":"我們知道對於傳產業者他們也有一些意見就是說其實我們看到從去年就是說從今年初我們的那個就是ECFA的十二項實話的終止以後"},{"start":90.868,"end":90.888,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":108.339,"end":123.534,"text":"因為很多國外的買家跟他們要求就是你也知道就所謂的臺灣家他希望在臺灣以外的東南亞再設置新的生產的基地那對於"},{"start":124.655,"end":126.877,"text":"對於台灣的經濟當然我們知道說經濟部現在你規劃的是我們朝向高職化的但是在這個銜接的過程當中其實我們還是有非常多調節上面的問題是不是"},{"start":150.771,"end":154.152,"text":"謝謝委員那確實有幾個不同的面向那包括比如說石化業好了那我們其實這個在這個去年開始就跟石化業非常密集來討論石化業確實怎麼樣升級轉型以及做國際的分散佈局那所以我們今年會特別石化業剛才我也提到連結這個機械甚至紡織一起來打新興市場那這個政府確實每個禮拜"},{"start":178.297,"end":178.317,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":203.383,"end":206.866,"text":"面對現在的國際情形臺灣的強項那怎麼樣做更好的一個爭取戰其實都一定會要趕快加速特別是有幾個產業中國其實有一點這個over capacity他的產能過剩的問題其實在未來的兩三年會越來越明顯"},{"start":223.058,"end":247.951,"text":"但是其實對於這些中小企業或者是外銷為主的這些生產的廠家而言他們認為說就是說在這種我們電價還有這些相關的就是關稅的談判都沒有辦法有突破的情況下讓他們在台灣生產變成非常嚴峻的問題那這也會造成失業率的問題等等的"},{"start":248.251,"end":249.992,"text":"當然這個部分兩個面向一個就是說事實上台灣是有一個非常綿密的供應鏈所以在台灣的好處有台灣的優點那另外一方面就是說電價的部分或者節電的部分或者減碳本來就是個國際大趨勢"},{"start":264.961,"end":292.378,"text":"所以政府願意花比較多的資源來對這個中小企業他低碳化智慧化的部分來讓他節省相關的支出而且坦白講那個國際客戶也好或者他的供應鏈也都會看他有沒有做好這些ESG的減碳的工作那所以這個部分我們一定會去協助中小企業那委員如果有需要我們也其實都非常樂意到各個中小企業的聚落去跟他們做一個交流"},{"start":293.138,"end":318.672,"text":"還有其實我有看到那個我們的PPI跟CPI的指數那每一次的電價上漲的你看電價如果調整的時候PPI就是生產物價指數那就是製造端所就是說它的生產成本就增加那所以造成就是整個兩個都是雙漲的情況那代表了我們只要漲電價它就會轉嫁到所有的消費者的身上"},{"start":319.252,"end":346.05,"text":"所以這也就是為什麼大家在跟部長說的民生電價的部分如果你已經漲工業電價其實就會影響到民生的這個就是消費者的指數了那未來如果再漲民生電價那就是等於對他們來講就是雙重漲價那全部都會讓所有的民眾認為他們的痛苦指數有可能就會攀升"},{"start":346.95,"end":347.471,"text":"但是前面兩次都沒有名聲,對不對?"},{"start":361.787,"end":386.215,"text":"小商家的部分或者民生用電的部分確實都有做不同的你用電量的大小做不同的一個規劃那這個就是在過去的兩次的漲價裡面不斷的在優化這個相關的一個機制可是我必須要告訴部長從這個歷史的數字看來只要你就是工業的電價漲"},{"start":387.495,"end":409.106,"text":"那對於就是物價指數就會造成聯動性的這是聯動性從PPI跟CPI來看就是聯動性的這樣子的長幅所以你必須要看再來就是3月15日聽說我們的碳費審議委員會也要登場了是不是那這個也會影響到"},{"start":410.487,"end":419.173,"text":"制造業者是不是相關的碳費的審議這邊是環境部會開始來召開我知道可是你們經濟部一定要密切關注我們會我們其實目前掌握情況是如何的因為第一次下個好像是這個禮拜五才開始召開那之前我們其實也有跟產業界有做非常多的溝通我們也會把產業界的這些意見也有反映給這個環境部"},{"start":439.426,"end":452.335,"text":"如果現在電價也漲然後未來馬上又開偵探費的情況下那對於製造端會產生什麼樣影響那今年主計處還調高我們的經濟成長率是3.43%那我們有沒有辦法維持這麼高的經濟成長率啊"},{"start":459.66,"end":465.202,"text":"所以這個相關的會不會影響啊對不對我們現在看起來好像我們的接單很順暢但是在這種雙重的影響下漲電價然後開徵碳費會不會對於我們的製造業以及我們的景氣預估有相關的影響那經濟部的評估是怎麼樣謝謝委員提醒那所以在經濟部的電價部分那所以我們才會一直來爭取政府的補貼做最優先"},{"start":489.292,"end":491.873,"text":"那那個相關的這個影響產業的通膨PPI等等我們也會非常審慎那不過就是說確實臺灣的這個電價的漲其實都比其他國家緩非常多那甚至我們看到韓電他在去年底已經變成轉虧為盈了他甚至都還那他就是韓電漲了84%等等那所以對臺灣來講我們確實是更為謹慎"},{"start":517.739,"end":526.067,"text":"﹚"}]}}}}