{"id":149753,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149753","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b69030fa7c6744b04e785b77cff0621b76d91f8ba9b0039caa7a6086e5678e26938075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:58:03 - 10:09:49","影片長度":"00:11:46","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":706,"end_time":"2024-03-13T10:09:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T09:58:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":484,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時58分）主席，有請陳審計長跟朱主計長。"],["主席：請陳審計長及朱主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：我先請問陳審計長。審計長，最近臺中市政府左手賣土地，右手又降稅，之前在109年的時候調降公告地價20.06%，本席粗估了一下，1年的稅收至少少收了17億多，這8年至少少收136億啦！然後又說沒有錢，所以它要賣土地，今年又賣了86億，如果再加上之前的話，總共已經賣出了超過1,750億的土地！這裡頭有一個問題，審計長，你有沒有去想一想，這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎？難道沒有其他的方式嗎？譬如聯合開發，或地上權等等，你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府處分土地的一些作為，或者瞭解它的比例、有沒有帶動周邊土地的一個炒作的可能？審計長請說。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解。"],["郭委員國文：多多少少都在瞭解，但到底多還是少啊？多多少少都在瞭解！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：監察院也成立了，整個把這個土地的收入……"],["郭委員國文：你是審計部啊，你跟我扯到監察院，我現在問你啊！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：他要我的資料啊！"],["郭委員國文：你到底有沒有統計啊？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：這個部分我們在歸納啊！"],["郭委員國文：你歸納？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：嗯。"],["郭委員國文：我問你，你才會歸納，那你平常都沒有在歸納嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：……監察院要我們……"],["郭委員國文：我就問你嘛，你手頭上3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式、比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響，有沒有？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：這個部分沒有。"],["郭委員國文：沒有？對啊！就是沒有嘛！所以多多少少……"],["陳審計長瑞敏：就是都個案，剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性，謝謝，我會……"],["郭委員國文：對，站在審計部的高位當中，你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地，是不是有圖利特定對象的嫌疑，甚或帶動地方的土地炒作的可能。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們會做，因為委員今天的質詢……"],["郭委員國文：臺中市政府做了一個非常錯誤的範例，該收的稅金不收，要去當好人，然後結果最後就販售土地，搞不好A土地跟B土地，賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格，你有沒有去思考這個問題？審計長，你怎麼處理這些問題？接著你有沒有可能，好，你都沒有做統計的話，那本席要求你，你看是要做這3年來或5年來，地方政府處理土地的坪數、方式及金額到底造成什麼樣的社會影響，可不可以做一份報告給本席？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：可以，委員的建議非常的好。"],["郭委員國文：然後呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：就做啊！"],["郭委員國文：多久啊？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：這個因為是全面性的，你給我一點時間。"],["郭委員國文：1個月可以不可以？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：1個月太短。"],["郭委員國文：什麼太少？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：太少了！因為現在我的人都在外面查帳。"],["郭委員國文：那一個半月、一個半月，一個半月可以嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：差不多要……"],["郭委員國文：好，一個半月。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：要6月底，6月底啦！"],["郭委員國文：太久了吧！6月底，現在3月，你跟我扯6月底。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為要解決一個事情，我們還是要深入。"],["郭委員國文：2個月，然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來，好不好？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：好，那就6月底……"],["郭委員國文：你要有一些行政作為喔！我等著喔，我眼睛要擦亮一點等著看你有什麼行政作為喔！","換主計長，審計長請回。"],["主席：審計長請回座。"],["郭委員國文：主計長，剛剛也有委員在問有關於前瞻第5期的部分，本席問你，會不會編？"],["朱主計長澤民：目前並沒有說不編。"],["郭委員國文：目前並沒有說不編，目前也沒有說要編。"],["朱主計長澤民：按照正常應該是要編，因為……"],["郭委員國文：正常應該要編？"],["朱主計長澤民：因為那個前瞻的條例就已經規定是8,400億，分期編列。"],["郭委員國文：對，8,400億，我們還有700億嘛，到明年的8月還有700億嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：對，704億。"],["郭委員國文：對，還有大概704億嘛，然後聽說是不是因為顧慮520的狀況，所以現在還沒有拍板定案。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！這個跟選舉……"],["郭委員國文：沒有？本來就應該要編了嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：我們是例行性的，那個各部會提出他們的需求……"],["郭委員國文：好，例行性的8個項目都要編啦，但是本席要提醒你一個部分，過往因為地方的財政問題、配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果，變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算，你有沒有做過這種統計？"],["朱主計長澤民：有關各縣市的分配，我們可以提供一份資料給委員。"],["郭委員國文：我跟你講，不用，本席大概稍微有瞭解了，過往我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡啦，但事實上就結果來說，其實只有北高平衡，南北哪有平衡！臺南在前瞻計畫的軌道運輸才拿到1億多而已，拜託喔！"],["朱主計長澤民：我也不會對臺南特別不好……"],["郭委員國文：特別不好！但就結果來說就不好啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：因為我是臺南人啦，對不對？"],["郭委員國文：對啊，你也知道，那你還敢說你臺南人，你是白河人，我怎麼會不知道你是白河人，問題是……"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，白河水庫我也給了20億。"],["郭委員國文：問題是你應該稍微再公平一點嘛，總共來說的話，軌道運輸才拿到1億多！"],["朱主計長澤民：白河水庫也給了20億啊！"],["郭委員國文：我是說你在第5期的部分有沒有思考一下，前面4期分配多的叫他們不要再來要了，可不可以啊？留一些給別人嘛！對不對？要達到真正的南北平衡嘛，有沒有可能？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那我也希望臺南市所提出來的計畫能夠完整一點，能夠受到中央各主管部會的同意。"],["郭委員國文：對，待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲。"],["朱主計長澤民：好、好、好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：對啊，就是這些問題嘛，你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛，不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛，你要考量一下誰拿的比較多、誰拿的比較少，前瞻計畫8,400億都集中在少部分縣市，哪有這種道理，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的，尊重委員。"],["郭委員國文：這是前瞻的目的嗎？主計長，麻煩你注意一下，可不可以？"],["朱主計長澤民：是這樣，應該。"],["郭委員國文：還有啦，還有很多問題要跟你請教。"],["朱主計長澤民：不敢。"],["郭委員國文：有關於CPI的部分，不要說你跟央行比較啦，就跟您個人之前的預估，2022年的時候你預估2023年是1.86%，但2023年實際值是2.5%，所以誤差值大概是25%。民生CPI今年2月是降到3.26%，但是月購CPI還是一樣上升到4%，那你預估今年是1.64%，但是我要跟您提醒的是，目前相關的國際情勢並沒有改變，戰爭如果持續進行，預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下，民生的CPI似乎也應該公布一下，讓大家會比較瞭解，這是第一點。第二個部分，影響這個CPI的部分，我們過去有一些作為，包括刪營業稅、關稅等等免稅的方式，到3月底「黃小玉」等等就已經要到期了，可是我所瞭解到的是，好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會，就你瞭解的狀況如何？"],["朱主計長澤民：有啦，都有定期開會。"],["郭委員國文：什麼時候開會？"],["朱主計長澤民：都有定期開會……"],["郭委員國文：定期開會，可是到現在3月底已經要到期了耶！"],["朱主計長澤民：下禮拜開會。"],["郭委員國文：下禮拜？什麼時候？"],["朱主計長澤民：下禮拜，20號。"],["郭委員國文：20號，那您的主張怎麼樣？你覺得這個免稅……"],["朱主計長澤民：那個我們要去看經濟部的報告以及……"],["郭委員國文：你會不會希望「黃小玉」免關稅的部分持續進行？"],["朱主計長澤民：……財政部的情況，那個召集人是鄭副院長，我想他會做一個……"],["郭委員國文：我知道、我知道，我的問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字，你會不會建議說為了避免CPI繼續攀升，相關的一些免稅作為應該持續？"],["朱主計長澤民：對啦，那個大家可以討論，然後鄭副院長會做出恰當的裁示。"],["郭委員國文：數字你最瞭解了，我在問你的態度嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦，我的態度沒那麼重要，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：你的態度很關鍵啦，主計長，這時候你又變得不重要了，整個趨勢你最瞭解啊，我是希望你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下，政府該作為的應該要持續啦，我這樣建議您啦。"],["朱主計長澤民：是的，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：好，另外一個部分，同樣也是CPI的部分，你今年開始有公布所謂的高齡CPI嘛……"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["郭委員國文：高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付，特別是高齡項目部分所編列的預算，我看到是高達1兆1,357億。我請問你一下，你這1兆1,357億的部分是按照CPI的部分，還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的？"],["朱主計長澤民：這個是按照一般的CPI，不過我要跟委員報告，如果高齡CPI按照各國的話，有時候會下降，像油價高漲的時候……"],["郭委員國文：我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊？"],["朱主計長澤民：這個可以考慮。"],["郭委員國文：可以啊，因為你就是要給付嘛，你給付的精神就是要照顧人民、照顧高齡嘛。"],["朱主計長澤民：不過跟委員報告，我們只是提這些指數出來，因為您這個圖裡面講的老農津貼、國民年金、公保給付等等，都有各自的主管機關，也有各自的法令，我不能夠……"],["郭委員國文：你要交給個別主管機關認定，但是預算編列是在你的手上啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，我沒有那麼大權力啦，我不能用預算編列去管人家的政策啦！"],["郭委員國文：沒有，我算過啦，其實依照老農津貼的話，老農津貼是可以增加的，我有算過啦，你自己私底下再算一下。"],["朱主計長澤民：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：我建議你針對這個部分能不能從高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考，可以跟各部會討論一下，可不可以？"],["朱主計長澤民：是的。"],["郭委員國文：好，接下來要談的是實質薪資連續4年下降，連續4年耶！"],["朱主計長澤民：應該沒有4年啦，我可以跟委員報告……"],["郭委員國文：我算起來是連續4年下降耶！"],["朱主計長澤民：我們在這個是……"],["郭委員國文：我算一算，從最近的名目薪資再到CPI算起來，實質薪資一樣持續下滑。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，我們最近8年的實質薪資增加532元，相對前一個8年……"],["郭委員國文：最近8年加532元，你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：相對前一個8年只有增加82元。"],["郭委員國文：沒有啊，你這個數字跟我的數字差很多，我們會後可能要好好討論一下！"],["朱主計長澤民：我會把這些……"],["郭委員國文：8年只增加532元，你還講那麼大聲！"],["朱主計長澤民：可是上一個8年實質、實質……"],["郭委員國文：什麼上一個8年，我跟你算最近4年，你跟我算8年！而且你如果從所謂的……"],["朱主計長澤民：對不起，那個是平均每年啦！"],["郭委員國文：如果從月購CPI來算的話，實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬耶！"],["朱主計長澤民：不、不，不是，我講錯了，那個是平均每年五百三十幾塊啦！"],["郭委員國文：平均每年增加五百三十幾塊？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，532元是平均每年。"],["郭委員國文：好，我們會後來核算數字啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：我們會把資料準備給委員。"],["郭委員國文：即便你每年增加五百三十幾塊，還是非常的稀少好不好！"],["朱主計長澤民：不是啦，相對前一個8年只有八十幾塊……"],["郭委員國文：相對前面的8年，好啦，你要比前面8年，但我在比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位質詢請賴惠員委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-3","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","陳玉珍","王世堅","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 520.475, \"end\": 520.655, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 520.655, \"end\": 520.775, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 520.775, \"end\": 520.935, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 520.935, \"end\": 521.275, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 521.275, \"end\": 521.396, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 521.396, \"end\": 521.416, \"score\": 0.009}]}, {\"start\": 522.136, \"end\": 540.125, \"text\": \"高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 522.136, \"end\": 522.276, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 522.276, \"end\": 522.456, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 522.456, \"end\": 522.616, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 522.616, \"end\": 522.976, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 522.976, \"end\": 523.657, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"鍵\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 523.657, \"end\": 523.797, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 523.797, \"end\": 524.157, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 524.157, \"end\": 524.317, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 524.317, \"end\": 524.597, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 524.597, \"end\": 524.757, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 524.757, \"end\": 525.278, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 525.278, \"end\": 525.478, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 525.478, \"end\": 525.638, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 525.638, \"end\": 525.778, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 525.778, \"end\": 525.938, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 525.938, \"end\": 526.378, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 536.623, \"end\": 536.903, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 536.903, \"end\": 537.143, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 537.143, \"end\": 537.303, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 537.303, \"end\": 537.543, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 537.543, \"end\": 537.804, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 537.804, \"end\": 537.964, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 537.964, \"end\": 538.104, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 538.104, \"end\": 538.504, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 538.504, \"end\": 538.664, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 538.664, \"end\": 538.904, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 538.904, \"end\": 539.024, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 539.024, \"end\": 539.204, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 539.204, \"end\": 539.344, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 539.344, \"end\": 539.464, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 539.464, \"end\": 539.624, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 539.624, \"end\": 539.705, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 539.705, \"end\": 539.905, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 539.905, \"end\": 540.025, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 540.025, \"end\": 540.085, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 540.085, \"end\": 540.105, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 540.105, \"end\": 540.125, \"score\": 0.819}]}, {\"start\": 541.265, \"end\": 553.033, \"text\": \"這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 541.265, \"end\": 541.445, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 541.445, \"end\": 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\"因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 558.978, \"end\": 559.238, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 559.238, \"end\": 559.338, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 559.338, \"end\": 559.478, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 559.478, \"end\": 559.578, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 559.578, \"end\": 560.159, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 560.159, \"end\": 560.339, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 560.339, \"end\": 560.74, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 560.74, \"end\": 560.98, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 560.98, \"end\": 561.46, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 561.46, \"end\": 561.58, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 561.58, \"end\": 561.681, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 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\"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 570.029, \"end\": 570.049, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 574.073, \"end\": 598.568, \"text\": \"他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 574.073, \"end\": 574.273, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 574.273, \"end\": 574.513, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 574.513, \"end\": 574.773, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 574.773, \"end\": 574.994, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 574.994, \"end\": 575.214, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 575.214, \"end\": 575.374, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 575.374, \"end\": 576.054, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 576.054, \"end\": 576.194, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 576.194, \"end\": 576.414, 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 689.464, \"end\": 689.484, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"!\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,889 --> 00:00:02,570\n主席有請陳審計長跟朱主計長陳審計長還有朱主計長我先問朱主計長沈議長委員長\n\n2\n00:00:17,615 --> 00:00:44,524\n我先問審計長最近台中市政府左手賣土地右手又降稅之前他在109年的時候降了公告地價20.06%本期給他出估一下一年的稅收至少少收了17億多這8年至少少收136億然後又說沒有錢所以說他要賣土地今年又賣了86億\n\n3\n00:00:46,184 --> 00:01:02,289\n如果再加上之前的話他總共已經賣出1750億超過的土地啊這一頭有一個問題啊省議長你有沒有去想一想啊這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎\n\n4\n00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:19,304\n難道沒有其他的方式嗎?比如講聯合開發啦或地商權啦等等你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府這處分土地的一些作為或者是了解他的比例或者帶動了周邊有沒有土地的一個炒作的可能?主席沈議長請說\n\n5\n00:01:21,367 --> 00:01:48,507\n這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解多多少少都在瞭解我看到底多還是少啊多多少少的瞭解監察院他們的誠意整個把這個土地都收住了你要審計部啊你要跟我扯到監察院我現在問你看你到底有沒有統計啊這個部分我們在歸納啊歸納我有問你你才會歸納那你平常都沒有在歸納\n\n6\n00:01:51,018 --> 00:02:07,337\n我就問你嘛你手上有沒有3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響有沒有這個部分沒有沒有對啊就是沒有嘛所以多多少少\n\n7\n00:02:08,672 --> 00:02:32,853\n就是都夠按剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性對謝謝我會站在審計部的高位當中你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地是不是有土地特定對象的一個嫌疑或帶動地方的這個土地的炒作的可能我們會做因為委員的台中市政府做一個非常錯誤的範例\n\n8\n00:02:35,081 --> 00:02:44,315\n該收的稅金他不收他要當好人然後結果就會販售土地搞不好A土地B土地賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格你有沒有去思考這個問題\n\n9\n00:02:46,636 --> 00:03:12,717\n所以,市長,那你怎麼處理這些問題?這接著你有沒有可能,好,你都沒有做統計的話,那本席要求你啊,你看要做這3年來或5年來地方政府處理土地的這個坪數,還有方式,還有金額,到底是造成什麼樣的社會影響,可不可以做一份報告給本席?可以,這個委員的建議非常的好。然後呢?就做啊。啊,多久啊?\n\n10\n00:03:14,926 --> 00:03:36,676\n這個因為是前面性的你給我一點時間一個月可以不可以一個月什麼太少一個半月一個半月一個半月可以不差不多要六月底六月底啦太久了吧六月底現在三月你先給我六月底我們還是要深入兩個月然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來好不好\n\n11\n00:03:38,256 --> 00:03:40,677\n有關於前三、五期的部分本期問你會不會編?\n\n12\n00:03:59,252 --> 00:04:14,705\n目前並沒有說不編目前並沒有說不編目前也沒有說要編那應該按照正常的是要編正常應該要編因為那個前瞻的那個條例就已經講說是8400億對8400億我們還有700億嘛到明年的8月還有700億對704億對還有這個704億嘛然後聽說是不是孤立什麼520的狀況\n\n13\n00:04:23,972 --> 00:04:49,298\n所以說到現在還沒有排版定案沒有啦這個本來就應該要編了嘛例行性的八個項目都要編啦但是本席要提醒你一個部分喔是的過往因為地方的這個財政問題配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算你有沒有做過這種統計\n\n14\n00:04:50,958 --> 00:05:11,958\n呃我們在那個構縣市的那個分配我們有我們可以移分資料給委員我跟你講不用本期大概稍後會了解了過我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡但事實上呢就結果來說呢其實只有北高平衡南北哪有平衡台南的前瞻計畫軌道運輸都拿了一鍋而已也拜託的我也不會\n\n15\n00:05:13,219 --> 00:05:34,332\n對於臺南特別那個特別不好因為我就是臺南人啊我就是臺南人啊對不對對啊你也知道啦你還敢說你臺南人是白人我不知道你白人問題是你也先給我批討一下嘛總共來說的話軌道運輸才拿到一億多我是說你第5期的部分有沒有思考一下前面四期分配很多叫他們不要再來要了可不可以啊對啊\n\n16\n00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,962\n對,你待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲了\n\n17\n00:05:54,551 --> 00:06:23,846\n對阿就是這個問題嘛你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛你要考量一下誰拿的比較多誰拿的比較少然後前章計畫8400億都集中在少部分縣市的然後這種道理對不對是不是前章的這個目的嗎那個主席長麻煩你注意一下可不可以是這樣應該還有啦還有很多問題要跟你請教齁不敢這個有關於這個CPI的部分齁是的\n\n18\n00:06:25,148 --> 00:06:31,193\n不要說你跟央行比較啦我就跟你個人這個之前的預估2022年的時候你預估2023年的時候是1.86那2023年實際值是2.5%所以誤差值大概是25%\n\n19\n00:06:42,503 --> 00:07:05,315\n那明升的CPI今年是降到這個二月的降到3.26但是月購的CPI還是一樣上升到4那你今年預估是今年1.64但是我要跟您提醒的是說目前的這個相關的這個外國際的情勢並沒有改變戰爭如果持續進行\n\n20\n00:07:07,156 --> 00:07:32,649\n預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下民生的CPI是不是也應該公布一下讓大家會比較了解是第一啦第二個部分呢影響這個CPI的部分我們過去有一些作為包括三營業稅關稅等等的一個免稅的方式到3月底黃曉玉等等就已經要到期了可是我了解的部分好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會就了解狀況如何什麼時候開會\n\n21\n00:07:36,031 --> 00:07:53,902\n都有定期開會可是到現在3月底就要到期了餒下禮拜開會下禮拜什麼時候下禮拜20號20號那您的主張怎麼樣你覺得這個免稅那個是我們去看那個是他那個那你會不會希望這個王小玉這個免關稅的部分其實持續進行那個趙吉仁是\n\n22\n00:08:00,046 --> 00:08:23,444\n政府院長我想說他會做一個我問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字你會不會建議說為了避免這些CPI繼續攀升那相關的一些免稅的作為應該持續大家可以討論然後政府院長會做出沒有數字你最了解啦我在問你的態度嘛沒有啦我的態度沒那麼重要的謝謝你的態度很關鍵啦主席主席主席你都變得不重要了\n\n23\n00:08:24,204 --> 00:08:41,416\n那個整個趨勢你最了解啊我是希望說你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下政府該作為應該持續啦是的我這樣建議您啦謝謝好另外一個部分同樣的也是CPI的部分您今年開始有這個公布所謂的高廉CPI嘛是的\n\n24\n00:08:42,136 --> 00:09:00,125\n高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的\n\n25\n00:09:01,265 --> 00:09:13,033\n這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊\n\n26\n00:09:18,978 --> 00:09:30,049\n因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付\n\n27\n00:09:34,073 --> 00:09:58,568\n他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以\n\n28\n00:09:59,989 --> 00:10:07,003\n是的好那接下來齁那個主委長這實質的薪資齁年續4年下降欸年續4年欸\n\n29\n00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:37,823\n應該沒有4年了我可以跟那個委員報告一下那個我們在這個是我算一算齁這個從最近的這個這個明目薪資再算一下CPI再算起來齁實質薪資齁一樣持續下降我們最近8年啦他的實質薪資增加532億元相對前一個8年最近8年加532億元你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎相對前一個8年只有增加82億只有增加82億\n\n30\n00:10:38,763 --> 00:10:39,984\n平均每年啦平均每年\n\n31\n00:10:59,264 --> 00:11:28,604\n我這個月購CPI來算的話他實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬欸不是不是我講錯了那個是平均每年530幾塊啦平均每年不是百年平均每年增加530幾塊對530平均每年我們會後來核斷數字啦即便你每年增加530幾塊還是非常的稀少好不好相對前面的8年只有80幾塊的相對前面的8年好了你要比前面的8年我再比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦\n\n32\n00:11:29,464 --> 00:11:29,484\n謝謝!好謝謝!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n889\t2570\t主席有請陳審計長跟朱主計長陳審計長還有朱主計長我先問朱主計長沈議長委員長\n17615\t44524\t我先問審計長最近台中市政府左手賣土地右手又降稅之前他在109年的時候降了公告地價20.06%本期給他出估一下一年的稅收至少少收了17億多這8年至少少收136億然後又說沒有錢所以說他要賣土地今年又賣了86億\n46184\t62289\t如果再加上之前的話他總共已經賣出1750億超過的土地啊這一頭有一個問題啊 省議長你有沒有去想一想啊 這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎\n63670\t79304\t難道沒有其他的方式嗎?比如講聯合開發啦或地商權啦等等你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府這處分土地的一些作為或者是了解他的比例或者帶動了周邊有沒有土地的一個炒作的可能?主席 沈議長請說\n81367\t108507\t這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解多多少少都在瞭解我看到底多還是少啊多多少少的瞭解監察院他們的誠意整個把這個土地都收住了你要審計部啊你要跟我扯到監察院我現在問你看你到底有沒有統計啊這個部分我們在歸納啊歸納我有問你你才會歸納那你平常都沒有在歸納\n111018\t127337\t我就問你嘛你手上有沒有3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響有沒有這個部分沒有沒有對啊就是沒有嘛所以多多少少\n128672\t152853\t就是都夠按剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性對謝謝我會站在審計部的高位當中你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地是不是有土地特定對象的一個嫌疑或帶動地方的這個土地的炒作的可能我們會做因為委員的台中市政府做一個非常錯誤的範例\n155081\t164315\t該收的稅金他不收他要當好人然後結果就會販售土地搞不好A土地B土地賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格你有沒有去思考這個問題\n166636\t192717\t所以,市長,那你怎麼處理這些問題?這接著你有沒有可能,好,你都沒有做統計的話,那本席要求你啊,你看要做這3年來或5年來地方政府處理土地的這個坪數,還有方式,還有金額,到底是造成什麼樣的社會影響,可不可以做一份報告給本席?可以,這個委員的建議非常的好。然後呢?就做啊。啊,多久啊?\n194926\t216676\t這個因為是前面性的你給我一點時間一個月可以不可以一個月什麼太少一個半月一個半月一個半月可以不差不多要六月底六月底啦太久了吧六月底現在三月你先給我六月底我們還是要深入兩個月然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來好不好\n218256\t220677\t有關於前三、五期的部分本期問你會不會編?\n239252\t254705\t目前並沒有說不編目前並沒有說不編目前也沒有說要編那應該按照正常的是要編正常應該要編因為那個前瞻的那個條例就已經講說是8400億對8400億我們還有700億嘛到明年的8月還有700億對704億對還有這個704億嘛然後聽說是不是孤立什麼520的狀況\n263972\t289298\t所以說到現在還沒有排版定案沒有啦 這個本來就應該要編了嘛例行性的八個項目都要編啦但是本席要提醒你一個部分喔 是的過往因為地方的這個財政問題配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算你有沒有做過這種統計\n290958\t311958\t呃我們在那個構縣市的那個分配我們有我們可以移分資料給委員我跟你講不用本期大概稍後會了解了過我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡但事實上呢就結果來說呢其實只有北高平衡南北哪有平衡台南的前瞻計畫軌道運輸都拿了一鍋而已也拜託的我也不會\n313219\t334332\t對於臺南特別那個 特別不好 因為我就是臺南人啊 我就是臺南人啊 對不對對啊 你也知道啦 你還敢說你臺南人是白人 我不知道你白人 問題是 你也先給我批討一下嘛 總共來說的話 軌道運輸才拿到一億多 我是說你第5期的部分有沒有思考一下 前面四期分配很多 叫他們不要再來要了可不可以啊 對啊\n337520\t339962\t對,你待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲了\n354551\t383846\t對阿就是這個問題嘛你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛你要考量一下誰拿的比較多誰拿的比較少然後前章計畫8400億都集中在少部分縣市的然後這種道理對不對是不是前章的這個目的嗎那個主席長麻煩你注意一下可不可以是這樣應該還有啦還有很多問題要跟你請教齁不敢這個有關於這個CPI的部分齁是的\n385148\t391193\t不要說你跟央行比較啦我就跟你個人這個之前的預估2022年的時候你預估2023年的時候是1.86那2023年實際值是2.5%所以誤差值大概是25%\n402503\t425315\t那明升的CPI今年是降到這個二月的降到3.26但是月購的CPI還是一樣上升到4那你今年預估是今年1.64但是我要跟您提醒的是說目前的這個相關的這個外國際的情勢並沒有改變戰爭如果持續進行\n427156\t452649\t預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下民生的CPI是不是也應該公布一下讓大家會比較了解是第一啦第二個部分呢影響這個CPI的部分我們過去有一些作為包括三營業稅關稅等等的一個免稅的方式到3月底黃曉玉等等就已經要到期了可是我了解的部分好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會就了解狀況如何什麼時候開會\n456031\t473902\t都有定期開會可是到現在3月底就要到期了餒下禮拜開會下禮拜什麼時候下禮拜20號20號那您的主張怎麼樣你覺得這個免稅那個是我們去看那個是他那個那你會不會希望這個王小玉這個免關稅的部分其實持續進行那個趙吉仁是\n480046\t503444\t政府院長我想說他會做一個我問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字你會不會建議說為了避免這些CPI繼續攀升那相關的一些免稅的作為應該持續大家可以討論然後政府院長會做出沒有數字你最了解啦我在問你的態度嘛沒有啦我的態度沒那麼重要的謝謝你的態度很關鍵啦主席主席主席你都變得不重要了\n504204\t521416\t那個整個趨勢你最了解啊我是希望說你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下政府該作為應該持續啦是的我這樣建議您啦謝謝好另外一個部分同樣的也是CPI的部分您今年開始有這個公布所謂的高廉CPI嘛是的\n522136\t540125\t高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的\n541265\t553033\t這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊\n558978\t570049\t因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付\n574073\t598568\t他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以\n599989\t607003\t是的好那接下來齁那個主委長這實質的薪資齁年續4年下降欸年續4年欸\n611250\t637823\t應該沒有4年了我可以跟那個委員報告一下那個我們在這個是我算一算齁這個從最近的這個這個明目薪資再算一下CPI再算起來齁實質薪資齁一樣持續下降我們最近8年啦他的實質薪資增加532億元相對前一個8年最近8年加532億元你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎相對前一個8年只有增加82億只有增加82億\n638763\t639984\t平均每年啦 平均每年\n659264\t688604\t我這個月購CPI來算的話他實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬欸不是不是我講錯了那個是平均每年530幾塊啦平均每年不是百年平均每年增加530幾塊對530平均每年我們會後來核斷數字啦即便你每年增加530幾塊還是非常的稀少好不好相對前面的8年只有80幾塊的相對前面的8年好了你要比前面的8年我再比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦\n689464\t689484\t謝謝!好謝謝!\n","txt":"主席有請陳審計長跟朱主計長陳審計長還有朱主計長我先問朱主計長沈議長委員長\n我先問審計長最近台中市政府左手賣土地右手又降稅之前他在109年的時候降了公告地價20.06%本期給他出估一下一年的稅收至少少收了17億多這8年至少少收136億然後又說沒有錢所以說他要賣土地今年又賣了86億\n如果再加上之前的話他總共已經賣出1750億超過的土地啊這一頭有一個問題啊 省議長你有沒有去想一想啊 這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎\n難道沒有其他的方式嗎?比如講聯合開發啦或地商權啦等等你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府這處分土地的一些作為或者是了解他的比例或者帶動了周邊有沒有土地的一個炒作的可能?主席 沈議長請說\n這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解多多少少都在瞭解我看到底多還是少啊多多少少的瞭解監察院他們的誠意整個把這個土地都收住了你要審計部啊你要跟我扯到監察院我現在問你看你到底有沒有統計啊這個部分我們在歸納啊歸納我有問你你才會歸納那你平常都沒有在歸納\n我就問你嘛你手上有沒有3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響有沒有這個部分沒有沒有對啊就是沒有嘛所以多多少少\n就是都夠按剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性對謝謝我會站在審計部的高位當中你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地是不是有土地特定對象的一個嫌疑或帶動地方的這個土地的炒作的可能我們會做因為委員的台中市政府做一個非常錯誤的範例\n該收的稅金他不收他要當好人然後結果就會販售土地搞不好A土地B土地賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格你有沒有去思考這個問題\n所以,市長,那你怎麼處理這些問題?這接著你有沒有可能,好,你都沒有做統計的話,那本席要求你啊,你看要做這3年來或5年來地方政府處理土地的這個坪數,還有方式,還有金額,到底是造成什麼樣的社會影響,可不可以做一份報告給本席?可以,這個委員的建議非常的好。然後呢?就做啊。啊,多久啊?\n這個因為是前面性的你給我一點時間一個月可以不可以一個月什麼太少一個半月一個半月一個半月可以不差不多要六月底六月底啦太久了吧六月底現在三月你先給我六月底我們還是要深入兩個月然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來好不好\n有關於前三、五期的部分本期問你會不會編?\n目前並沒有說不編目前並沒有說不編目前也沒有說要編那應該按照正常的是要編正常應該要編因為那個前瞻的那個條例就已經講說是8400億對8400億我們還有700億嘛到明年的8月還有700億對704億對還有這個704億嘛然後聽說是不是孤立什麼520的狀況\n所以說到現在還沒有排版定案沒有啦 這個本來就應該要編了嘛例行性的八個項目都要編啦但是本席要提醒你一個部分喔 是的過往因為地方的這個財政問題配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算你有沒有做過這種統計\n呃我們在那個構縣市的那個分配我們有我們可以移分資料給委員我跟你講不用本期大概稍後會了解了過我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡但事實上呢就結果來說呢其實只有北高平衡南北哪有平衡台南的前瞻計畫軌道運輸都拿了一鍋而已也拜託的我也不會\n對於臺南特別那個 特別不好 因為我就是臺南人啊 我就是臺南人啊 對不對對啊 你也知道啦 你還敢說你臺南人是白人 我不知道你白人 問題是 你也先給我批討一下嘛 總共來說的話 軌道運輸才拿到一億多 我是說你第5期的部分有沒有思考一下 前面四期分配很多 叫他們不要再來要了可不可以啊 對啊\n對,你待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲了\n對阿就是這個問題嘛你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛你要考量一下誰拿的比較多誰拿的比較少然後前章計畫8400億都集中在少部分縣市的然後這種道理對不對是不是前章的這個目的嗎那個主席長麻煩你注意一下可不可以是這樣應該還有啦還有很多問題要跟你請教齁不敢這個有關於這個CPI的部分齁是的\n不要說你跟央行比較啦我就跟你個人這個之前的預估2022年的時候你預估2023年的時候是1.86那2023年實際值是2.5%所以誤差值大概是25%\n那明升的CPI今年是降到這個二月的降到3.26但是月購的CPI還是一樣上升到4那你今年預估是今年1.64但是我要跟您提醒的是說目前的這個相關的這個外國際的情勢並沒有改變戰爭如果持續進行\n預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下民生的CPI是不是也應該公布一下讓大家會比較了解是第一啦第二個部分呢影響這個CPI的部分我們過去有一些作為包括三營業稅關稅等等的一個免稅的方式到3月底黃曉玉等等就已經要到期了可是我了解的部分好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會就了解狀況如何什麼時候開會\n都有定期開會可是到現在3月底就要到期了餒下禮拜開會下禮拜什麼時候下禮拜20號20號那您的主張怎麼樣你覺得這個免稅那個是我們去看那個是他那個那你會不會希望這個王小玉這個免關稅的部分其實持續進行那個趙吉仁是\n政府院長我想說他會做一個我問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字你會不會建議說為了避免這些CPI繼續攀升那相關的一些免稅的作為應該持續大家可以討論然後政府院長會做出沒有數字你最了解啦我在問你的態度嘛沒有啦我的態度沒那麼重要的謝謝你的態度很關鍵啦主席主席主席你都變得不重要了\n那個整個趨勢你最了解啊我是希望說你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下政府該作為應該持續啦是的我這樣建議您啦謝謝好另外一個部分同樣的也是CPI的部分您今年開始有這個公布所謂的高廉CPI嘛是的\n高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的\n這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊\n因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付\n他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以\n是的好那接下來齁那個主委長這實質的薪資齁年續4年下降欸年續4年欸\n應該沒有4年了我可以跟那個委員報告一下那個我們在這個是我算一算齁這個從最近的這個這個明目薪資再算一下CPI再算起來齁實質薪資齁一樣持續下降我們最近8年啦他的實質薪資增加532億元相對前一個8年最近8年加532億元你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎相對前一個8年只有增加82億只有增加82億\n平均每年啦 平均每年\n我這個月購CPI來算的話他實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬欸不是不是我講錯了那個是平均每年530幾塊啦平均每年不是百年平均每年增加530幾塊對530平均每年我們會後來核斷數字啦即便你每年增加530幾塊還是非常的稀少好不好相對前面的8年只有80幾塊的相對前面的8年好了你要比前面的8年我再比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦\n謝謝!好謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.889 --> 00:02.570\n主席有請陳審計長跟朱主計長陳審計長還有朱主計長我先問朱主計長沈議長委員長\n\n00:17.615 --> 00:44.524\n我先問審計長最近台中市政府左手賣土地右手又降稅之前他在109年的時候降了公告地價20.06%本期給他出估一下一年的稅收至少少收了17億多這8年至少少收136億然後又說沒有錢所以說他要賣土地今年又賣了86億\n\n00:46.184 --> 01:02.289\n如果再加上之前的話他總共已經賣出1750億超過的土地啊這一頭有一個問題啊省議長你有沒有去想一想啊這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎\n\n01:03.670 --> 01:19.304\n難道沒有其他的方式嗎?比如講聯合開發啦或地商權啦等等你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府這處分土地的一些作為或者是了解他的比例或者帶動了周邊有沒有土地的一個炒作的可能?主席沈議長請說\n\n01:21.367 --> 01:48.507\n這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解多多少少都在瞭解我看到底多還是少啊多多少少的瞭解監察院他們的誠意整個把這個土地都收住了你要審計部啊你要跟我扯到監察院我現在問你看你到底有沒有統計啊這個部分我們在歸納啊歸納我有問你你才會歸納那你平常都沒有在歸納\n\n01:51.018 --> 02:07.337\n我就問你嘛你手上有沒有3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響有沒有這個部分沒有沒有對啊就是沒有嘛所以多多少少\n\n02:08.672 --> 02:32.853\n就是都夠按剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性對謝謝我會站在審計部的高位當中你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地是不是有土地特定對象的一個嫌疑或帶動地方的這個土地的炒作的可能我們會做因為委員的台中市政府做一個非常錯誤的範例\n\n02:35.081 --> 02:44.315\n該收的稅金他不收他要當好人然後結果就會販售土地搞不好A土地B土地賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格你有沒有去思考這個問題\n\n02:46.636 --> 03:12.717\n所以,市長,那你怎麼處理這些問題?這接著你有沒有可能,好,你都沒有做統計的話,那本席要求你啊,你看要做這3年來或5年來地方政府處理土地的這個坪數,還有方式,還有金額,到底是造成什麼樣的社會影響,可不可以做一份報告給本席?可以,這個委員的建議非常的好。然後呢?就做啊。啊,多久啊?\n\n03:14.926 --> 03:36.676\n這個因為是前面性的你給我一點時間一個月可以不可以一個月什麼太少一個半月一個半月一個半月可以不差不多要六月底六月底啦太久了吧六月底現在三月你先給我六月底我們還是要深入兩個月然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來好不好\n\n03:38.256 --> 03:40.677\n有關於前三、五期的部分本期問你會不會編?\n\n03:59.252 --> 04:14.705\n目前並沒有說不編目前並沒有說不編目前也沒有說要編那應該按照正常的是要編正常應該要編因為那個前瞻的那個條例就已經講說是8400億對8400億我們還有700億嘛到明年的8月還有700億對704億對還有這個704億嘛然後聽說是不是孤立什麼520的狀況\n\n04:23.972 --> 04:49.298\n所以說到現在還沒有排版定案沒有啦這個本來就應該要編了嘛例行性的八個項目都要編啦但是本席要提醒你一個部分喔是的過往因為地方的這個財政問題配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算你有沒有做過這種統計\n\n04:50.958 --> 05:11.958\n呃我們在那個構縣市的那個分配我們有我們可以移分資料給委員我跟你講不用本期大概稍後會了解了過我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡但事實上呢就結果來說呢其實只有北高平衡南北哪有平衡台南的前瞻計畫軌道運輸都拿了一鍋而已也拜託的我也不會\n\n05:13.219 --> 05:34.332\n對於臺南特別那個特別不好因為我就是臺南人啊我就是臺南人啊對不對對啊你也知道啦你還敢說你臺南人是白人我不知道你白人問題是你也先給我批討一下嘛總共來說的話軌道運輸才拿到一億多我是說你第5期的部分有沒有思考一下前面四期分配很多叫他們不要再來要了可不可以啊對啊\n\n05:37.520 --> 05:39.962\n對,你待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲了\n\n05:54.551 --> 06:23.846\n對阿就是這個問題嘛你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛你要考量一下誰拿的比較多誰拿的比較少然後前章計畫8400億都集中在少部分縣市的然後這種道理對不對是不是前章的這個目的嗎那個主席長麻煩你注意一下可不可以是這樣應該還有啦還有很多問題要跟你請教齁不敢這個有關於這個CPI的部分齁是的\n\n06:25.148 --> 06:31.193\n不要說你跟央行比較啦我就跟你個人這個之前的預估2022年的時候你預估2023年的時候是1.86那2023年實際值是2.5%所以誤差值大概是25%\n\n06:42.503 --> 07:05.315\n那明升的CPI今年是降到這個二月的降到3.26但是月購的CPI還是一樣上升到4那你今年預估是今年1.64但是我要跟您提醒的是說目前的這個相關的這個外國際的情勢並沒有改變戰爭如果持續進行\n\n07:07.156 --> 07:32.649\n預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下民生的CPI是不是也應該公布一下讓大家會比較了解是第一啦第二個部分呢影響這個CPI的部分我們過去有一些作為包括三營業稅關稅等等的一個免稅的方式到3月底黃曉玉等等就已經要到期了可是我了解的部分好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會就了解狀況如何什麼時候開會\n\n07:36.031 --> 07:53.902\n都有定期開會可是到現在3月底就要到期了餒下禮拜開會下禮拜什麼時候下禮拜20號20號那您的主張怎麼樣你覺得這個免稅那個是我們去看那個是他那個那你會不會希望這個王小玉這個免關稅的部分其實持續進行那個趙吉仁是\n\n08:00.046 --> 08:23.444\n政府院長我想說他會做一個我問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字你會不會建議說為了避免這些CPI繼續攀升那相關的一些免稅的作為應該持續大家可以討論然後政府院長會做出沒有數字你最了解啦我在問你的態度嘛沒有啦我的態度沒那麼重要的謝謝你的態度很關鍵啦主席主席主席你都變得不重要了\n\n08:24.204 --> 08:41.416\n那個整個趨勢你最了解啊我是希望說你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下政府該作為應該持續啦是的我這樣建議您啦謝謝好另外一個部分同樣的也是CPI的部分您今年開始有這個公布所謂的高廉CPI嘛是的\n\n08:42.136 --> 09:00.125\n高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的\n\n09:01.265 --> 09:13.033\n這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊\n\n09:18.978 --> 09:30.049\n因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付\n\n09:34.073 --> 09:58.568\n他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以\n\n09:59.989 --> 10:07.003\n是的好那接下來齁那個主委長這實質的薪資齁年續4年下降欸年續4年欸\n\n10:11.250 --> 10:37.823\n應該沒有4年了我可以跟那個委員報告一下那個我們在這個是我算一算齁這個從最近的這個這個明目薪資再算一下CPI再算起來齁實質薪資齁一樣持續下降我們最近8年啦他的實質薪資增加532億元相對前一個8年最近8年加532億元你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎相對前一個8年只有增加82億只有增加82億\n\n10:38.763 --> 10:39.984\n平均每年啦平均每年\n\n10:59.264 --> 11:28.604\n我這個月購CPI來算的話他實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬欸不是不是我講錯了那個是平均每年530幾塊啦平均每年不是百年平均每年增加530幾塊對530平均每年我們會後來核斷數字啦即便你每年增加530幾塊還是非常的稀少好不好相對前面的8年只有80幾塊的相對前面的8年好了你要比前面的8年我再比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦\n\n11:29.464 --> 11:29.484\n謝謝!好謝謝!\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.889,"end":2.57,"text":"主席有請陳審計長跟朱主計長陳審計長還有朱主計長我先問朱主計長沈議長委員長"},{"start":17.615,"end":44.524,"text":"我先問審計長最近台中市政府左手賣土地右手又降稅之前他在109年的時候降了公告地價20.06%本期給他出估一下一年的稅收至少少收了17億多這8年至少少收136億然後又說沒有錢所以說他要賣土地今年又賣了86億"},{"start":46.184,"end":62.289,"text":"如果再加上之前的話他總共已經賣出1750億超過的土地啊這一頭有一個問題啊 省議長你有沒有去想一想啊 這個土地的處分方式難道只有販售而已嗎"},{"start":63.67,"end":79.304,"text":"難道沒有其他的方式嗎?比如講聯合開發啦或地商權啦等等你有沒有去約束過這些地方政府這處分土地的一些作為或者是了解他的比例或者帶動了周邊有沒有土地的一個炒作的可能?主席 沈議長請說"},{"start":81.367,"end":108.507,"text":"這個部分我們多多少少都在瞭解多多少少都在瞭解我看到底多還是少啊多多少少的瞭解監察院他們的誠意整個把這個土地都收住了你要審計部啊你要跟我扯到監察院我現在問你看你到底有沒有統計啊這個部分我們在歸納啊歸納我有問你你才會歸納那你平常都沒有在歸納"},{"start":111.018,"end":127.337,"text":"我就問你嘛你手上有沒有3年以來地方政府出售土地的方式比例、坪數、價格對社會所造成的影響有沒有這個部分沒有沒有對啊就是沒有嘛所以多多少少"},{"start":128.672,"end":152.853,"text":"就是都夠按剛剛委員提醒我要有整體性對謝謝我會站在審計部的高位當中你要去思考這樣的土地處理方式只有單一的販售土地是不是有土地特定對象的一個嫌疑或帶動地方的這個土地的炒作的可能我們會做因為委員的台中市政府做一個非常錯誤的範例"},{"start":155.081,"end":164.315,"text":"該收的稅金他不收他要當好人然後結果就會販售土地搞不好A土地B土地賣了A土地帶動了B土地的價格你有沒有去思考這個問題"},{"start":166.636,"end":192.717,"text":"所以,市長,那你怎麼處理這些問題?這接著你有沒有可能,好,你都沒有做統計的話,那本席要求你啊,你看要做這3年來或5年來地方政府處理土地的這個坪數,還有方式,還有金額,到底是造成什麼樣的社會影響,可不可以做一份報告給本席?可以,這個委員的建議非常的好。然後呢?就做啊。啊,多久啊?"},{"start":194.926,"end":216.676,"text":"這個因為是前面性的你給我一點時間一個月可以不可以一個月什麼太少一個半月一個半月一個半月可以不差不多要六月底六月底啦太久了吧六月底現在三月你先給我六月底我們還是要深入兩個月然後連同改善的方式也都幫我處理出來好不好"},{"start":218.256,"end":220.677,"text":"有關於前三、五期的部分本期問你會不會編?"},{"start":239.252,"end":254.705,"text":"目前並沒有說不編目前並沒有說不編目前也沒有說要編那應該按照正常的是要編正常應該要編因為那個前瞻的那個條例就已經講說是8400億對8400億我們還有700億嘛到明年的8月還有700億對704億對還有這個704億嘛然後聽說是不是孤立什麼520的狀況"},{"start":263.972,"end":289.298,"text":"所以說到現在還沒有排版定案沒有啦 這個本來就應該要編了嘛例行性的八個項目都要編啦但是本席要提醒你一個部分喔 是的過往因為地方的這個財政問題配合款的問題或諸多計畫提出的問題的結果變成有特定的縣市別拿到比較多的前瞻預算你有沒有做過這種統計"},{"start":290.958,"end":311.958,"text":"呃我們在那個構縣市的那個分配我們有我們可以移分資料給委員我跟你講不用本期大概稍後會了解了過我們一直強調所謂的南北平衡但事實上呢就結果來說呢其實只有北高平衡南北哪有平衡台南的前瞻計畫軌道運輸都拿了一鍋而已也拜託的我也不會"},{"start":313.219,"end":334.332,"text":"對於臺南特別那個 特別不好 因為我就是臺南人啊 我就是臺南人啊 對不對對啊 你也知道啦 你還敢說你臺南人是白人 我不知道你白人 問題是 你也先給我批討一下嘛 總共來說的話 軌道運輸才拿到一億多 我是說你第5期的部分有沒有思考一下 前面四期分配很多 叫他們不要再來要了可不可以啊 對啊"},{"start":337.52,"end":339.962,"text":"對,你待會會後你就可以打電話給黃偉哲了"},{"start":354.551,"end":383.846,"text":"對阿就是這個問題嘛你要考慮到一個區域平衡發展嘛不是誰來申請你就送給他嘛你要考量一下誰拿的比較多誰拿的比較少然後前章計畫8400億都集中在少部分縣市的然後這種道理對不對是不是前章的這個目的嗎那個主席長麻煩你注意一下可不可以是這樣應該還有啦還有很多問題要跟你請教齁不敢這個有關於這個CPI的部分齁是的"},{"start":385.148,"end":391.193,"text":"不要說你跟央行比較啦我就跟你個人這個之前的預估2022年的時候你預估2023年的時候是1.86那2023年實際值是2.5%所以誤差值大概是25%"},{"start":402.503,"end":425.315,"text":"那明升的CPI今年是降到這個二月的降到3.26但是月購的CPI還是一樣上升到4那你今年預估是今年1.64但是我要跟您提醒的是說目前的這個相關的這個外國際的情勢並沒有改變戰爭如果持續進行"},{"start":427.156,"end":452.649,"text":"預計這種CPI還是會持續發生的情況底下民生的CPI是不是也應該公布一下讓大家會比較了解是第一啦第二個部分呢影響這個CPI的部分我們過去有一些作為包括三營業稅關稅等等的一個免稅的方式到3月底黃曉玉等等就已經要到期了可是我了解的部分好像到現在為止穩定物價小組都還沒有開會就了解狀況如何什麼時候開會"},{"start":456.031,"end":473.902,"text":"都有定期開會可是到現在3月底就要到期了餒下禮拜開會下禮拜什麼時候下禮拜20號20號那您的主張怎麼樣你覺得這個免稅那個是我們去看那個是他那個那你會不會希望這個王小玉這個免關稅的部分其實持續進行那個趙吉仁是"},{"start":480.046,"end":503.444,"text":"政府院長我想說他會做一個我問題是說你看到這些CPI的數字你會不會建議說為了避免這些CPI繼續攀升那相關的一些免稅的作為應該持續大家可以討論然後政府院長會做出沒有數字你最了解啦我在問你的態度嘛沒有啦我的態度沒那麼重要的謝謝你的態度很關鍵啦主席主席主席你都變得不重要了"},{"start":504.204,"end":521.416,"text":"那個整個趨勢你最了解啊我是希望說你要考量到CPI持續攀升的狀況底下政府該作為應該持續啦是的我這樣建議您啦謝謝好另外一個部分同樣的也是CPI的部分您今年開始有這個公布所謂的高廉CPI嘛是的"},{"start":522.136,"end":540.125,"text":"高齡CPI最關鍵的其實是有關於社會給付特別是高齡項目的部分所編列的預算我看到高達一兆1357億我請問你一下你這一兆1357億的部分是按照CPI的這個部分還是用高齡CPI的部分來編列的"},{"start":541.265,"end":553.033,"text":"這個是按照一般的CPI不過我要跟那個委員報告如果高齡CPI按照過國的話他有時候會下降他有時候會下降像油價高漲的時候那我們可不可以訂一個擇優處理啊"},{"start":558.978,"end":570.049,"text":"因為你就是要給付嘛你給付就是要照顧人民照顧高齡嘛不過各位委員報告我們只是提這些指示出來因為這個您剛才講的您這個圖案裡面的圖裡面講老農國民年輕官保給付"},{"start":574.073,"end":598.568,"text":"他有各自的主管機關他有各自的法令你要交給他個別主管機關在那邊但是預算編列是在你的手上啊我沒有那麼大權力啦我不能去預算編列政府人家政策啦其實依照老人津貼的話那個老農津貼的話他是可以增加的啦我有算過啦你自己私底下再算一下啦我建議說你這個部分能不能從一個高齡CPI的部分來做一個思考可以跟各部會來討論一下可不可以"},{"start":599.989,"end":607.003,"text":"是的好那接下來齁那個主委長這實質的薪資齁年續4年下降欸年續4年欸"},{"start":611.25,"end":637.823,"text":"應該沒有4年了我可以跟那個委員報告一下那個我們在這個是我算一算齁這個從最近的這個這個明目薪資再算一下CPI再算起來齁實質薪資齁一樣持續下降我們最近8年啦他的實質薪資增加532億元相對前一個8年最近8年加532億元你覺得這是很驕傲的數字嗎相對前一個8年只有增加82億只有增加82億"},{"start":638.763,"end":639.984,"text":"平均每年啦 平均每年"},{"start":659.264,"end":688.604,"text":"我這個月購CPI來算的話他實質薪資搞不好還跌破4萬欸不是不是我講錯了那個是平均每年530幾塊啦平均每年不是百年平均每年增加530幾塊對530平均每年我們會後來核斷數字啦即便你每年增加530幾塊還是非常的稀少好不好相對前面的8年只有80幾塊的相對前面的8年好了你要比前面的8年我再比現在實質的感受跟生活上的所需啦"},{"start":689.464,"end":689.484,"text":"謝謝!好謝謝!"}]}}}}