{"id":149767,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149767","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b69038c87fe7cdc1df2133ee337926754d043f8ba9b0039caa7a638ccd65fb7a125885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"10:29:33 - 10:42:48","影片長度":"00:13:15","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-6"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":795,"end_time":"2024-03-13T10:42:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T10:29:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":864,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請秘書長。"],["主席：請劉秘書長。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長早。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員早安。"],["林委員思銘：是，秘書長，我先就教一下，前幾天臺北市社會局發生了一位女科員涉嫌販毒的事件，依據媒體在3月7號的揭露，這個女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後，以20萬元交保候傳，北市社會局也在事發隔日召開考績委員會，要求女科員出席陳述申辯，不過這位女科員缺席考績會，臺北市社會局表示，因為當事人沒有出席考績會，沒有完成所謂的陳述及申辯程序，所以會再通知當事人，預計7天內（含例假日）再開考績會，目前將現有關鍵證據依照公務員服務法、公務員懲戒法及相關規範移付懲戒，並先行停止其職務，而依公務人員俸給法的規定，停職期間仍可領取半薪，這是臺北市政府的新聞稿。","我想就教秘書長，您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職處分卻仍可以領取半薪、半俸，這樣合理嗎？符合我們社會的觀感及以及人民的法律情感嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是，我跟委員報告，這部分其實涉及首長對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用，這個是不是請周部長來說明？"],["林委員思銘：好，請部長回答。"],["周部長志宏：目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定，在判決確定之前用停職給半薪是為維持他基本的生活，給他適當的保障，在還沒有判刑確定之前，基本上還是要推定無罪，這時候直接剝奪他所有的俸給，可能會影響到他的生活，這部分我們當然認為目前是還算可以。"],["林委員思銘：不是，您剛才的論述是基於無罪推定原則保障他的基本生活，所以給他半俸，但我想這樣子，每個案子都不一樣，像這種販毒的案子，公務人員涉及販毒還可以領半薪啊！我想這對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受，大家觀感非常差，這個已經造成我們公務人員聲譽很大的影響，這種人因為他還沒有判刑確定，或者因此還沒有判決，受到停止職務、停職仍可以領半薪，那我先問你，以你個人的觀感，你認為這個合理嗎？"],["周部長志宏：當然觀感上……"],["林委員思銘：先不講法律啦，你個人的感受？"],["周部長志宏：是不好啦！"],["林委員思銘：是，所以你的觀感也不好嘛，對不對？既然銓敘部也感覺觀感不好，這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性？"],["周部長志宏：不過這要看他的服務機關的選擇，因為目前是「得」發給半俸，不是「應」。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["周部長志宏：跟教師法的教師停聘不太一樣，所以還是看他服務機關的處理。"],["林委員思銘：其實部長我跟你講，我跟你分享一下，有學者建議，我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則，但是不是依照俸給法保留得支給半薪本俸的彈性空間，是否仍有它的必要性？你現在講的「得」是授權行政機關本身來做決定，但是把這種事情全部授權行政機關，而不去在法制面上做修正，這會造成行政機關在運用上會有很大的疑慮，給首長太大的權力了，所以學者也建議應該慎重設計相關的要件來符合法律的設計。這部分我今天有一個提案，要求考試院就這個部分能夠在3個月提出一個修正建議的必要，去研析是否有修正的必要性，就相關的要件是不是做制度的修改。"],["周部長志宏：針對委員的意見，我們來做研議。"],["林委員思銘：我給你3個月的時間。"],["周部長志宏：謝謝。"],["林委員思銘：第二個，剛才大家一直關心的，有關於我們高普考報名人數的問題，113年的高普考昨天已經開始報考了，請問秘書長，你對於今年考試報名的人數樂觀嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我覺得有一個部分可以期待，因為今年高普考大規模減科，是實施減少考科的第一屆，昨天開始報名了，已經有1萬人。"],["林委員思銘：是。"],["劉秘書長建忻：我們再來觀察今年的效果。"],["林委員思銘：所以你是樂觀有信心的啦！"],["劉秘書長建忻：應該這樣講，我覺得考生不來考有一個很大的問題，考試本身對年輕人求職來說是一個障礙啦！不是考試本身是障礙，應該說考試的方法裡面可能不要讓大家負擔過高的成本，所以我們今年普遍推動減科的政策。"],["林委員思銘：所以你也思考怎麼樣讓考生能夠回流啦！"],["劉秘書長建忻：對。"],["林委員思銘：從5年內來看的話，我們高考報考人數在2019年是四萬五千多人，到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人，一直在下降。秘書長剛才回答我們幾位委員有關於公務人員報考人數下滑的原因，部長也有回答，第一個是少子化的原因，另外是因為外部競爭的關係，還有第三個是因為待遇的問題。但是我觀察到一個面向，現在在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高，以新北市為例，新北市在2022年的離職數是298人，但是調往中央、往中央跑的人數高達166人，我們看到這個面向，因為很多人不願意在原來的地方待，希望到中央單位去，導致地方政府的人員，常常很多人的心不在地方政府，他一直想往上爬，為什麼會造成這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的原因？"],["劉秘書長建忻：中央機關職等比較高，我想優秀的公務員追逐升遷，這個也很自然。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長也提到問題的核心，地方政府的職等比較低，一樣的職務、一樣工作，但是到中央做一樣的工作，他的職等會比較高，所以你有沒有思索，如何讓地方政府人員的職等能夠跟中央職等的落差不要有太大的落差，要如何調整，有沒有思考過？"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟委員報告，其實我們這幾年在地方的某一些職等上面，如果實務上有需求，銓敘部的考量都會比較放寬，考試院也都支持，儘量讓地方能夠有留才的工具，比如說以新北來講，過去區長的職等就一律平等，但是我們把人口比較多的區長再特別拉出來，讓他職等能夠再提高，因為有的區長管轄人口已經超過某些小的縣市。"],["林委員思銘：秘書長，我想不限於區長這個職等而已，當然我們樂觀其成，基層的公務人員願意到中央來服務，如果他表現好的話，但是我想地方政府還是需要留才，你剛也提到……"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個我同意。"],["林委員思銘：如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定，離職率不要升高，心一直不在原單位，如何的留住他們的心，當然我們一直在跟你討論的就是有關職等的問題，所以我建議，我們是不是就地方政府人員職等，如何提升他們的職等以克服存在已久的職等落差問題，這方面是不是可以在1個月內提出書面報告給我？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我們把目前已經處理完的跟正在討論中的來跟委員做說明。"],["林委員思銘：好，我再請教剛剛一直提到的數位治理、數位職能的問題，考試院保訓會也有一個e等公務園學習平臺嘛！本席在意的是數位落差的問題，雖然有這個學習平臺，也就是資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較新進的公務人員是有差異的，這個您贊成嗎？秘書長。"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["林委員思銘：是嘛，有這樣的差異嘛！針對這個問題，我們有解決方案了沒有？目前在原公務機關有一些資深的公務人員，他們的數位治理能力跟新進的人員有落差，你要如何來培訓他們？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個在職訓練的部分其實是比較屬於人事行政總處的訓練業務，不過其實我想各機關都會重視這個問題，像我們考試院自己內部也都會一直在開辦課程，譬如說AI絕對是未來革命性的工具，是在工作上一個很大的變革，所以我們也有各種的課程來提升大家對這方面的認識跟能力。"],["林委員思銘：是，秘書長，我想我們都很重視數位治理的問題，剛才謝龍介委員也針對數位部他們資通人員的考用問題來就教於您，剛才你也有回答一個重點，就是我們有修正公務人員高考三級考試，在113年我們就會針對資通安全類科開始來考用。前幾天我有問人事總長，關於我們行政院各機關、各部會的資安長，目前都是由非專業的副首長來兼任，所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要。我想請教秘書長，對這個部分你未來要如何來精進我們剛剛一直提到的這些政府機關資深人員的數位職能及數位治理能力，尤其是資安長？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是，資安長為什麼現在都是由高階的副首長來兼任，最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關、各單位，但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚，對資深的同仁，我想我們一定要強化訓練的課程。"],["林委員思銘：這個我瞭解，秘書長，我回到我剛剛的建議，我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決、協助公務員工作條件上的各項需求，尤其現在面對我們資安方面數位治理能力的問題，你看資安長這麼重要的一個職務卻是由外行的副首長來兼任，他可以說根本本身沒有數位這樣的職能，結果卻可以當資安長，所以如何協助他們來精進他們的數位職能，這一點請我們考試院、保訓會來研議，好不好？"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒問題。"],["林委員思銘：好，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝林委員，謝謝秘書長。","主席在這邊做一個宣告，就是預定在翁委員質詢後休息5分鐘，但是因為傅總召在場，我們就等翁委員質詢完或11點再看後續的情況。","接下來我們請翁委員曉玲質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-6","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","陳俊宇","謝龍介","林思銘","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 238.493, \"end\": 239.154, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 239.154, \"end\": 239.614, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 239.614, \"end\": 239.774, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 239.774, \"end\": 239.974, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 239.974, \"end\": 240.235, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 240.235, \"end\": 240.455, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 240.455, \"end\": 240.735, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 240.735, \"end\": 240.975, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 240.975, \"end\": 241.215, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 241.215, \"end\": 241.576, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 241.576, \"end\": 242.877, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 265.795, \"end\": 266.075, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 266.075, \"end\": 266.355, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 266.355, \"end\": 266.555, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 266.555, \"end\": 266.675, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 266.675, \"end\": 266.875, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 266.875, \"end\": 267.135, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 267.135, \"end\": 267.416, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 267.416, \"end\": 267.736, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 267.736, \"end\": 268.556, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 268.556, \"end\": 270.097, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 270.097, \"end\": 270.317, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 270.317, \"end\": 270.517, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 270.517, \"end\": 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302.438, \"end\": 302.679, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 302.679, \"end\": 302.759, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 302.759, \"end\": 302.959, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 302.959, \"end\": 303.379, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 303.379, \"end\": 303.539, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 303.539, \"end\": 303.859, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 303.859, \"end\": 303.98, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 303.98, \"end\": 304.24, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 304.24, \"end\": 304.44, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 304.44, \"end\": 304.56, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 304.56, \"end\": 304.66, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 304.66, \"end\": 304.7, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 304.7, \"end\": 304.94, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 304.94, \"end\": 305.12, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 305.12, \"end\": 305.26, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 305.26, \"end\": 305.36, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 305.36, \"end\": 305.561, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 305.561, \"end\": 305.801, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 305.801, \"end\": 305.821, \"score\": 0.994}]}, {\"start\": 308.562, \"end\": 309.823, \"text\": \"請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 308.562, \"end\": 308.662, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 308.662, \"end\": 308.802, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 308.802, \"end\": 308.902, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 308.902, \"end\": 309.062, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 309.062, \"end\": 309.302, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 309.302, \"end\": 309.602, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 309.602, \"end\": 309.723, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 309.723, \"end\": 309.803, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 309.803, \"end\": 309.823, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 335.216, \"end\": 342.101, \"text\": \"我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 335.216, \"end\": 335.316, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 335.316, \"end\": 335.476, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 335.476, \"end\": 335.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 335.576, \"end\": 335.736, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 335.736, \"end\": 335.836, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 335.836, \"end\": 335.977, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 335.977, \"end\": 336.097, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 336.097, \"end\": 336.237, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 336.237, \"end\": 336.437, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 336.437, \"end\": 336.577, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 336.577, \"end\": 336.697, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 336.697, \"end\": 336.897, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 336.897, \"end\": 337.037, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 337.037, \"end\": 337.217, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 337.217, \"end\": 337.538, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 337.538, \"end\": 337.738, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 337.738, \"end\": 338.738, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 338.738, \"end\": 339.139, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 339.139, \"end\": 339.739, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 339.739, \"end\": 340.76, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 340.76, \"end\": 340.98, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 340.98, \"end\": 341.16, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 341.16, \"end\": 341.32, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 341.32, \"end\": 341.46, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 341.46, \"end\": 341.58, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 341.58, \"end\": 341.921, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"屆\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 341.921, \"end\": 342.081, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 342.081, \"end\": 342.101, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 345.476, \"end\": 347.097, \"text\": \"所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 345.476, \"end\": 345.596, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 345.596, \"end\": 345.756, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 345.756, \"end\": 345.876, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 345.876, \"end\": 345.936, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 345.936, \"end\": 346.097, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 346.097, \"end\": 346.277, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 346.277, \"end\": 346.297, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 346.297, \"end\": 346.657, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 346.657, \"end\": 346.857, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 346.857, \"end\": 346.997, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 346.997, \"end\": 347.077, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 347.077, \"end\": 347.097, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 375.317, \"end\": 388.96, \"text\": \"對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 375.317, \"end\": 375.418, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 375.418, \"end\": 375.598, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 375.598, \"end\": 375.718, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 375.718, \"end\": 375.918, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 375.918, \"end\": 376.059, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 376.059, \"end\": 376.519, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 376.519, \"end\": 377.641, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 377.641, \"end\": 377.761, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 377.761, \"end\": 378.382, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 378.382, \"end\": 378.623, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 378.623, \"end\": 378.983, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 378.983, \"end\": 379.224, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 379.224, \"end\": 379.364, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 379.364, \"end\": 379.845, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 379.845, \"end\": 380.005, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 380.005, \"end\": 381.087, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 381.087, \"end\": 381.247, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.247, \"end\": 381.427, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 381.427, \"end\": 381.708, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 381.708, \"end\": 381.828, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 381.828, \"end\": 382.089, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 382.089, \"end\": 382.289, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 382.289, \"end\": 382.95, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 382.95, \"end\": 383.23, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 383.23, \"end\": 383.471, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 383.471, \"end\": 383.751, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.751, \"end\": 384.152, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 384.152, \"end\": 384.332, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 384.332, \"end\": 384.913, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 384.913, \"end\": 385.174, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 385.174, \"end\": 385.454, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 385.454, \"end\": 385.755, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 385.755, \"end\": 386.376, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 386.376, \"end\": 386.576, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 386.576, \"end\": 386.896, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 386.896, \"end\": 387.117, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 387.117, \"end\": 387.918, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 387.918, \"end\": 387.998, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 387.998, \"end\": 388.078, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 388.078, \"end\": 388.239, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 388.239, \"end\": 388.359, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 388.359, \"end\": 388.619, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 388.619, \"end\": 388.94, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 388.94, \"end\": 388.96, \"score\": 0.33}]}, {\"start\": 390.1, \"end\": 407.039, \"text\": \"那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 390.1, \"end\": 390.42, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 390.42, \"end\": 390.541, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 390.541, \"end\": 390.681, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 390.681, \"end\": 390.821, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 390.821, \"end\": 391.181, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 391.181, \"end\": 391.742, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 391.742, \"end\": 391.922, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 391.922, \"end\": 392.102, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 392.102, \"end\": 392.603, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 392.603, \"end\": 392.723, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 392.723, \"end\": 393.184, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 393.184, \"end\": 393.404, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 393.404, \"end\": 393.764, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 393.764, \"end\": 394.625, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 394.625, \"end\": 394.865, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 394.865, \"end\": 395.746, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 395.746, \"end\": 395.987, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 395.987, \"end\": 396.407, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 396.407, \"end\": 396.668, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"滑\", \"start\": 396.668, \"end\": 396.848, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 396.848, \"end\": 397.008, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 397.008, \"end\": 397.328, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 397.328, \"end\": 398.149, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 398.149, \"end\": 398.349, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 398.349, \"end\": 399.07, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 399.07, \"end\": 399.21, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 399.21, \"end\": 399.391, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 399.391, \"end\": 399.551, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 399.551, \"end\": 399.771, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 399.771, \"end\": 400.131, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 400.131, \"end\": 400.552, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 400.552, \"end\": 400.652, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 400.652, \"end\": 400.892, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 400.892, \"end\": 401.073, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 401.073, \"end\": 401.273, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 401.273, \"end\": 401.413, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 401.413, \"end\": 401.573, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 401.573, \"end\": 401.693, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 401.693, \"end\": 401.954, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 401.954, \"end\": 402.734, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 402.734, \"end\": 402.855, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 402.855, \"end\": 402.975, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 402.975, \"end\": 403.275, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 403.275, \"end\": 403.555, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 403.555, \"end\": 404.156, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"競\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 404.156, \"end\": 404.777, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 404.777, \"end\": 405.397, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 405.397, \"end\": 405.518, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 405.518, \"end\": 405.858, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 405.858, \"end\": 405.938, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 405.938, \"end\": 406.439, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 406.439, \"end\": 406.719, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 406.719, \"end\": 406.859, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 406.859, \"end\": 407.019, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 407.019, \"end\": 407.039, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 408.621, \"end\": 433.632, \"text\": \"但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 408.621, \"end\": 408.801, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 408.801, \"end\": 408.961, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 408.961, \"end\": 409.661, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 409.661, \"end\": 409.782, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"到\", 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 414.964, \"end\": 415.304, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 415.304, \"end\": 416.364, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 416.364, \"end\": 416.684, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 416.684, \"end\": 416.885, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 416.885, \"end\": 417.265, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 417.265, \"end\": 418.165, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 418.165, \"end\": 418.465, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 418.465, \"end\": 418.825, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 418.825, \"end\": 419.206, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 419.206, \"end\": 419.566, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 419.566, \"end\": 420.026, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 420.026, \"end\": 420.186, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.186, \"end\": 420.366, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 420.366, \"end\": 420.546, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 420.546, \"end\": 420.746, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 420.746, \"end\": 420.946, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 420.946, \"end\": 421.707, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 421.707, \"end\": 422.007, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 422.007, \"end\": 422.247, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 422.247, \"end\": 422.727, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 422.727, \"end\": 423.027, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 423.027, \"end\": 423.908, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 423.908, \"end\": 424.448, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 424.448, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 774.286, \"end\": 774.386, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 774.386, \"end\": 774.426, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 774.426, \"end\": 774.606, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 774.606, \"end\": 774.747, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"郝\", \"start\": 774.747, \"end\": 774.887, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 774.887, \"end\": 774.907, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,442 --> 00:00:34,935\n好謝謝主席主席請秘書長有請劉秘書長好秘書長早委員早安是秘書長我先就講這個就是我想前幾天有發生因為那個臺北市社會局有一位女科員涉及販毒的一個事件那這個事情依據媒體在3月7號的一個揭露\n\n2\n00:00:36,255 --> 00:00:53,540\n女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後以20萬元交保後傳北市社會局也在事發隔日要召開考機委員會並要求女科員出席陳述申辯不過這位女科員她缺席考機會\n\n3\n00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:21,137\n臺北市社會局表示,因為當事人沒有出席考試會﹚沒有完成所謂的陳述跟申辯程序﹚所以會再通知當事人預計7天內含例假日會再開考試會﹚目前也將現有關鍵證據依照公務人員服務法﹚公務人員懲戒法及相關規範來依附懲戒﹚並先行停止其職務﹚\n\n4\n00:01:22,358 --> 00:01:34,213\n而以公務人員奉旗法的規定停職期間仍可領取半薪。這是台北市政府的一個新聞稿那我想就叫秘書長\n\n5\n00:01:35,937 --> 00:02:01,469\n您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職的處分,卻仍可以領取半薪半奉,這樣合理嗎?符合我們社會的觀感及人民的法律情感嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分涉及對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用,那我這個是不是請周部長來做?好,請部長回答\n\n6\n00:02:02,967 --> 00:02:20,013\n因為在目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定在判決確定之前用停職那給判刑是維持他基本的生活是給他適當的一個保障但是因為我們在還沒有判刑確定之前基本上還是要推定無罪\n\n7\n00:02:20,553 --> 00:02:27,580\n您剛才的論述就是說您基於無罪推定的原則所以會保障他的基本生活所以給他半分但是我想這樣子針對每個案子都不一樣\n\n8\n00:02:45,680 --> 00:03:14,995\n那你像這種販毒的案子啊販毒涉及公務人員涉及販毒啊還可以領半薪啊我想這個對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受大家觀感非常差這個已經造成說我們公務人員的聲譽很大的影響這種人因為他這個還沒有判刑確定或者一直還沒有判決那因為受到停止職務停職人可以領半薪那\n\n9\n00:03:15,515 --> 00:03:36,932\n我現在問你,你認為以你個人的觀感,你認為這個合理嗎?我們先不講法律啦,你的感覺啦,你個人的感受。所以你的觀感也不好嘛,對不對?那既然說權敘部委感覺觀感不好,這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性?\n\n10\n00:03:37,728 --> 00:03:37,828\n委員會主席\n\n11\n00:03:58,493 --> 00:04:20,131\n其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定\n\n12\n00:04:21,132 --> 00:04:36,140\n但是你把這種事情全部授權行政機關而不去在法制面上做修正那這個會造成行政機關他們在這個運用上會有很大的一個疑慮給首長太大的權利\n\n13\n00:04:37,401 --> 00:05:05,821\n所以這部分這個學者也建議說應該慎重設計相關的要件來這個符合我們法律的一個設計所以這部分我是今天有一個提案要求說我們這個考試院能夠就這個部分能夠在三個月提出一個修正建議的必要去延期是否有修正的一個必要性就相關的要件是不是做制度的一個修改\n\n14\n00:05:08,562 --> 00:05:09,823\n請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:35,216 --> 00:05:42,101\n我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施\n\n16\n00:05:45,476 --> 00:05:47,097\n所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流\n\n17\n00:06:15,317 --> 00:06:28,960\n對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降\n\n18\n00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:47,039\n那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題\n\n19\n00:06:48,621 --> 00:07:13,632\n但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人\n\n20\n00:07:16,653 --> 00:07:39,590\n所以這個面向我們看到就是說因為很多人他不願意在原來的這個地方待他希望到中央單位去所以我們導致說我們地方政府人員的人員他常常很多的人他心不在地方政府他一直想往上爬那為什麼會這些造成說這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的一個原因\n\n21\n00:07:39,998 --> 00:07:59,452\n中央機關職等比較高啦,我想公務員,優秀公務員追逐生前這個也很自然。是,所以秘書長你也提到問題的核心啊,地方政府的職等比較低嘛,一樣的職務的話,一樣工作嘛,但是到中央做一樣的工作,他的職等會比較高,所以你有沒有思索?\n\n22\n00:08:00,546 --> 00:08:28,833\n如何來讓我們地方政府人員的值等能夠跟中央的值等的落差不要造成太大的落差要如何來調整有沒有思考過各位報告我們其實這幾年在地方的某一些值等上面如果實務上有需求全序部的考量都會比較放寬那考試院也都支持能夠盡量讓地方有留才的工具比如說以新北來講\n\n23\n00:08:29,773 --> 00:08:31,194\n邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n24\n00:08:53,490 --> 00:09:11,605\n但是我想地方政府還是需要留才你剛才也提到那如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定啊離職率不要說我一直想往心不在這個原單位啊如何的來去留住他們的心但我們一直該跟你討論就是有關職等的問題嘛\n\n25\n00:09:12,586 --> 00:09:40,728\n所以我是建議我們是不是就我們地方政府人員值等如何來提升他們的值等來克服我們存在已久的值等落差的問題這方面是不是可以在這個我一個月內提出書面報告給我可不可以我們把目前已經處理完了跟正在討論中的來跟委員做一個說明好我再請教我們剛才大家一直提到說數位治理數位值能的問題\n\n26\n00:09:42,554 --> 00:10:07,627\n當然我想我們考試院保訓會有一個叫做一等公務員學習平台本席在意的是一個數位落差的問題雖然有這個學習平台也就是說對於資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較親近的公務人員是有差異的這個您贊成嗎?秘書長\n\n27\n00:10:11,732 --> 00:10:15,161\n有這樣的差異嗎?所以針對這個問題我們有如何解決方案了沒有?\n\n28\n00:10:22,633 --> 00:10:48,391\n現在目前在員公務機關的這些資深的公務人員他們的數位治理能力跟新進的是有落差你如何的來培訓他們這個在職訓練的部分這個其實比較屬於人事總署的訓練業務不過其實各機關都會重視這個問題像我們自己考試院內部我們也都會一直在開放比如現在AI這絕對是未來工具性的革命\n\n29\n00:10:49,372 --> 00:10:49,412\n聖龍介委員\n\n30\n00:11:04,811 --> 00:11:12,876\n資通人員的考用問題來就教你,剛才你也回答一個重點就是說在113年我們修正公務人員高考三等考試就在113年我們就會針對這個資通安全類科我們開始來這個考用\n\n31\n00:11:22,438 --> 00:11:46,171\n但是我現在前幾天我也問那個人事總長有關於說我們的資安長我們行政院各機關各部會的資安長目前都是由非專業的副所長來兼任所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要\n\n32\n00:11:47,290 --> 00:12:04,075\n所以我想請教秘書長這部分你未來要如何來精進這些政府機關相關就是我們剛才一直提到的這些資深的人員的數位職能及他的數位治理能力尤其治安長\n\n33\n00:12:05,936 --> 00:12:21,117\n資安長的部分他為什麼現在這個都是由高階的副首長來兼任最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關各單位但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚\n\n34\n00:12:22,279 --> 00:12:37,933\n這我了解,但是秘書長我回到我剛才的建議我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決學術公務員工作條件上的各項需求尤其現在面對我們資安\n\n35\n00:12:38,954 --> 00:12:39,094\n林思銘議員\n\n36\n00:12:54,286 --> 00:12:54,907\n謝謝林委員、秘書長及郝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8442\t34935\t好 謝謝主席主席請秘書長有請劉秘書長好 秘書長早委員早安是 秘書長我先就講這個就是我想前幾天有發生因為那個臺北市社會局有一位女科員涉及販毒的一個事件那這個事情依據媒體在3月7號的一個揭露\n36255\t53540\t女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後以20萬元交保後傳北市社會局也在事發隔日要召開考機委員會並要求女科員出席陳述申辯不過這位女科員她缺席考機會\n55520\t81137\t臺北市社會局表示,因為當事人沒有出席考試會﹚沒有完成所謂的陳述跟申辯程序﹚所以會再通知當事人預計7天內含例假日會再開考試會﹚目前也將現有關鍵證據依照公務人員服務法﹚公務人員懲戒法及相關規範來依附懲戒﹚並先行停止其職務﹚\n82358\t94213\t而以公務人員奉旗法的規定停職期間仍可領取半薪。這是台北市政府的一個新聞稿那我想就叫秘書長\n95937\t121469\t您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職的處分,卻仍可以領取半薪半奉,這樣合理嗎?符合我們社會的觀感及人民的法律情感嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分涉及對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用,那我這個是不是請周部長來做?好,請部長回答\n122967\t140013\t因為在目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定在判決確定之前用停職那給判刑是維持他基本的生活是給他適當的一個保障但是因為我們在還沒有判刑確定之前基本上還是要推定無罪\n140553\t147580\t您剛才的論述就是說您基於無罪推定的原則所以會保障他的基本生活所以給他半分但是我想這樣子針對每個案子都不一樣\n165680\t194995\t那你像這種販毒的案子啊販毒涉及公務人員涉及販毒啊還可以領半薪啊我想這個對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受大家觀感非常差這個已經造成說我們公務人員的聲譽很大的影響這種人因為他這個還沒有判刑確定或者一直還沒有判決那因為受到停止職務停職人可以領半薪那\n195515\t216932\t我現在問你,你認為以你個人的觀感,你認為這個合理嗎?我們先不講法律啦,你的感覺啦,你個人的感受。所以你的觀感也不好嘛,對不對?那既然說權敘部委感覺觀感不好,這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性?\n217728\t217828\t委員會主席\n238493\t260131\t其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定\n261132\t276140\t但是你把這種事情全部授權行政機關而不去在法制面上做修正那這個會造成行政機關他們在這個運用上會有很大的一個疑慮給首長太大的權利\n277401\t305821\t所以這部分這個學者也建議說應該慎重設計相關的要件來這個符合我們法律的一個設計所以這部分我是今天有一個提案要求說我們這個考試院能夠就這個部分能夠在三個月提出一個修正建議的必要去延期是否有修正的一個必要性就相關的要件是不是做制度的一個修改\n308562\t309823\t請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?\n335216\t342101\t我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施\n345476\t347097\t所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流\n375317\t388960\t對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降\n390100\t407039\t那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題\n408621\t433632\t但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人\n436653\t459590\t所以這個面向我們看到就是說因為很多人他不願意在原來的這個地方待他希望到中央單位去所以我們導致說我們地方政府人員的人員他常常很多的人他心不在地方政府他一直想往上爬那為什麼會這些造成說這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的一個原因\n459998\t479452\t中央機關職等比較高啦,我想公務員,優秀公務員追逐生前這個也很自然。是,所以秘書長你也提到問題的核心啊,地方政府的職等比較低嘛,一樣的職務的話,一樣工作嘛,但是到中央做一樣的工作,他的職等會比較高,所以你有沒有思索?\n480546\t508833\t如何來讓我們地方政府人員的值等能夠跟中央的值等的落差不要造成太大的落差要如何來調整有沒有思考過各位報告我們其實這幾年在地方的某一些值等上面如果實務上有需求全序部的考量都會比較放寬那考試院也都支持能夠盡量讓地方有留才的工具比如說以新北來講\n509773\t511194\t邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n533490\t551605\t但是我想地方政府還是需要留才你剛才也提到那如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定啊離職率不要說我一直想往心不在這個原單位啊如何的來去留住他們的心但我們一直該跟你討論就是有關職等的問題嘛\n552586\t580728\t所以我是建議我們是不是就我們地方政府人員值等如何來提升他們的值等來克服我們存在已久的值等落差的問題這方面是不是可以在這個我一個月內提出書面報告給我可不可以我們把目前已經處理完了跟正在討論中的來跟委員做一個說明好我再請教我們剛才大家一直提到說數位治理數位值能的問題\n582554\t607627\t當然我想我們考試院保訓會有一個叫做一等公務員學習平台本席在意的是一個數位落差的問題雖然有這個學習平台也就是說對於資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較親近的公務人員是有差異的這個您贊成嗎?秘書長\n611732\t615161\t有這樣的差異嗎?所以針對這個問題我們有如何解決方案了沒有?\n622633\t648391\t現在目前在員公務機關的這些資深的公務人員他們的數位治理能力跟新進的是有落差你如何的來培訓他們這個在職訓練的部分這個其實比較屬於人事總署的訓練業務不過其實各機關都會重視這個問題像我們自己考試院內部我們也都會一直在開放比如現在AI這絕對是未來工具性的革命\n649372\t649412\t聖龍介委員\n664811\t672876\t資通人員的考用問題來就教你,剛才你也回答一個重點就是說在113年我們修正公務人員高考三等考試就在113年我們就會針對這個資通安全類科我們開始來這個考用\n682438\t706171\t但是我現在前幾天我也問那個人事總長有關於說我們的資安長我們行政院各機關各部會的資安長目前都是由非專業的副所長來兼任所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要\n707290\t724075\t所以我想請教秘書長這部分你未來要如何來精進這些政府機關相關就是我們剛才一直提到的這些資深的人員的數位職能及他的數位治理能力尤其治安長\n725936\t741117\t資安長的部分他為什麼現在這個都是由高階的副首長來兼任最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關各單位但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚\n742279\t757933\t這我了解,但是秘書長我回到我剛才的建議我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決學術公務員工作條件上的各項需求尤其現在面對我們資安\n758954\t759094\t林思銘議員\n774286\t774907\t謝謝林委員、秘書長及郝部長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席主席請秘書長有請劉秘書長好 秘書長早委員早安是 秘書長我先就講這個就是我想前幾天有發生因為那個臺北市社會局有一位女科員涉及販毒的一個事件那這個事情依據媒體在3月7號的一個揭露\n女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後以20萬元交保後傳北市社會局也在事發隔日要召開考機委員會並要求女科員出席陳述申辯不過這位女科員她缺席考機會\n臺北市社會局表示,因為當事人沒有出席考試會﹚沒有完成所謂的陳述跟申辯程序﹚所以會再通知當事人預計7天內含例假日會再開考試會﹚目前也將現有關鍵證據依照公務人員服務法﹚公務人員懲戒法及相關規範來依附懲戒﹚並先行停止其職務﹚\n而以公務人員奉旗法的規定停職期間仍可領取半薪。這是台北市政府的一個新聞稿那我想就叫秘書長\n您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職的處分,卻仍可以領取半薪半奉,這樣合理嗎?符合我們社會的觀感及人民的法律情感嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分涉及對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用,那我這個是不是請周部長來做?好,請部長回答\n因為在目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定在判決確定之前用停職那給判刑是維持他基本的生活是給他適當的一個保障但是因為我們在還沒有判刑確定之前基本上還是要推定無罪\n您剛才的論述就是說您基於無罪推定的原則所以會保障他的基本生活所以給他半分但是我想這樣子針對每個案子都不一樣\n那你像這種販毒的案子啊販毒涉及公務人員涉及販毒啊還可以領半薪啊我想這個對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受大家觀感非常差這個已經造成說我們公務人員的聲譽很大的影響這種人因為他這個還沒有判刑確定或者一直還沒有判決那因為受到停止職務停職人可以領半薪那\n我現在問你,你認為以你個人的觀感,你認為這個合理嗎?我們先不講法律啦,你的感覺啦,你個人的感受。所以你的觀感也不好嘛,對不對?那既然說權敘部委感覺觀感不好,這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性?\n委員會主席\n其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定\n但是你把這種事情全部授權行政機關而不去在法制面上做修正那這個會造成行政機關他們在這個運用上會有很大的一個疑慮給首長太大的權利\n所以這部分這個學者也建議說應該慎重設計相關的要件來這個符合我們法律的一個設計所以這部分我是今天有一個提案要求說我們這個考試院能夠就這個部分能夠在三個月提出一個修正建議的必要去延期是否有修正的一個必要性就相關的要件是不是做制度的一個修改\n請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?\n我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施\n所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流\n對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降\n那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題\n但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人\n所以這個面向我們看到就是說因為很多人他不願意在原來的這個地方待他希望到中央單位去所以我們導致說我們地方政府人員的人員他常常很多的人他心不在地方政府他一直想往上爬那為什麼會這些造成說這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的一個原因\n中央機關職等比較高啦,我想公務員,優秀公務員追逐生前這個也很自然。是,所以秘書長你也提到問題的核心啊,地方政府的職等比較低嘛,一樣的職務的話,一樣工作嘛,但是到中央做一樣的工作,他的職等會比較高,所以你有沒有思索?\n如何來讓我們地方政府人員的值等能夠跟中央的值等的落差不要造成太大的落差要如何來調整有沒有思考過各位報告我們其實這幾年在地方的某一些值等上面如果實務上有需求全序部的考量都會比較放寬那考試院也都支持能夠盡量讓地方有留才的工具比如說以新北來講\n邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n但是我想地方政府還是需要留才你剛才也提到那如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定啊離職率不要說我一直想往心不在這個原單位啊如何的來去留住他們的心但我們一直該跟你討論就是有關職等的問題嘛\n所以我是建議我們是不是就我們地方政府人員值等如何來提升他們的值等來克服我們存在已久的值等落差的問題這方面是不是可以在這個我一個月內提出書面報告給我可不可以我們把目前已經處理完了跟正在討論中的來跟委員做一個說明好我再請教我們剛才大家一直提到說數位治理數位值能的問題\n當然我想我們考試院保訓會有一個叫做一等公務員學習平台本席在意的是一個數位落差的問題雖然有這個學習平台也就是說對於資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較親近的公務人員是有差異的這個您贊成嗎?秘書長\n有這樣的差異嗎?所以針對這個問題我們有如何解決方案了沒有?\n現在目前在員公務機關的這些資深的公務人員他們的數位治理能力跟新進的是有落差你如何的來培訓他們這個在職訓練的部分這個其實比較屬於人事總署的訓練業務不過其實各機關都會重視這個問題像我們自己考試院內部我們也都會一直在開放比如現在AI這絕對是未來工具性的革命\n聖龍介委員\n資通人員的考用問題來就教你,剛才你也回答一個重點就是說在113年我們修正公務人員高考三等考試就在113年我們就會針對這個資通安全類科我們開始來這個考用\n但是我現在前幾天我也問那個人事總長有關於說我們的資安長我們行政院各機關各部會的資安長目前都是由非專業的副所長來兼任所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要\n所以我想請教秘書長這部分你未來要如何來精進這些政府機關相關就是我們剛才一直提到的這些資深的人員的數位職能及他的數位治理能力尤其治安長\n資安長的部分他為什麼現在這個都是由高階的副首長來兼任最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關各單位但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚\n這我了解,但是秘書長我回到我剛才的建議我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決學術公務員工作條件上的各項需求尤其現在面對我們資安\n林思銘議員\n謝謝林委員、秘書長及郝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.442 --> 00:34.935\n好謝謝主席主席請秘書長有請劉秘書長好秘書長早委員早安是秘書長我先就講這個就是我想前幾天有發生因為那個臺北市社會局有一位女科員涉及販毒的一個事件那這個事情依據媒體在3月7號的一個揭露\n\n00:36.255 --> 00:53.540\n女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後以20萬元交保後傳北市社會局也在事發隔日要召開考機委員會並要求女科員出席陳述申辯不過這位女科員她缺席考機會\n\n00:55.520 --> 01:21.137\n臺北市社會局表示,因為當事人沒有出席考試會﹚沒有完成所謂的陳述跟申辯程序﹚所以會再通知當事人預計7天內含例假日會再開考試會﹚目前也將現有關鍵證據依照公務人員服務法﹚公務人員懲戒法及相關規範來依附懲戒﹚並先行停止其職務﹚\n\n01:22.358 --> 01:34.213\n而以公務人員奉旗法的規定停職期間仍可領取半薪。這是台北市政府的一個新聞稿那我想就叫秘書長\n\n01:35.937 --> 02:01.469\n您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職的處分,卻仍可以領取半薪半奉,這樣合理嗎?符合我們社會的觀感及人民的法律情感嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分涉及對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用,那我這個是不是請周部長來做?好,請部長回答\n\n02:02.967 --> 02:20.013\n因為在目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定在判決確定之前用停職那給判刑是維持他基本的生活是給他適當的一個保障但是因為我們在還沒有判刑確定之前基本上還是要推定無罪\n\n02:20.553 --> 02:27.580\n您剛才的論述就是說您基於無罪推定的原則所以會保障他的基本生活所以給他半分但是我想這樣子針對每個案子都不一樣\n\n02:45.680 --> 03:14.995\n那你像這種販毒的案子啊販毒涉及公務人員涉及販毒啊還可以領半薪啊我想這個對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受大家觀感非常差這個已經造成說我們公務人員的聲譽很大的影響這種人因為他這個還沒有判刑確定或者一直還沒有判決那因為受到停止職務停職人可以領半薪那\n\n03:15.515 --> 03:36.932\n我現在問你,你認為以你個人的觀感,你認為這個合理嗎?我們先不講法律啦,你的感覺啦,你個人的感受。所以你的觀感也不好嘛,對不對?那既然說權敘部委感覺觀感不好,這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性?\n\n03:37.728 --> 03:37.828\n委員會主席\n\n03:58.493 --> 04:20.131\n其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定\n\n04:21.132 --> 04:36.140\n但是你把這種事情全部授權行政機關而不去在法制面上做修正那這個會造成行政機關他們在這個運用上會有很大的一個疑慮給首長太大的權利\n\n04:37.401 --> 05:05.821\n所以這部分這個學者也建議說應該慎重設計相關的要件來這個符合我們法律的一個設計所以這部分我是今天有一個提案要求說我們這個考試院能夠就這個部分能夠在三個月提出一個修正建議的必要去延期是否有修正的一個必要性就相關的要件是不是做制度的一個修改\n\n05:08.562 --> 05:09.823\n請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?\n\n05:35.216 --> 05:42.101\n我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施\n\n05:45.476 --> 05:47.097\n所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流\n\n06:15.317 --> 06:28.960\n對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降\n\n06:30.100 --> 06:47.039\n那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題\n\n06:48.621 --> 07:13.632\n但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人\n\n07:16.653 --> 07:39.590\n所以這個面向我們看到就是說因為很多人他不願意在原來的這個地方待他希望到中央單位去所以我們導致說我們地方政府人員的人員他常常很多的人他心不在地方政府他一直想往上爬那為什麼會這些造成說這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的一個原因\n\n07:39.998 --> 07:59.452\n中央機關職等比較高啦,我想公務員,優秀公務員追逐生前這個也很自然。是,所以秘書長你也提到問題的核心啊,地方政府的職等比較低嘛,一樣的職務的話,一樣工作嘛,但是到中央做一樣的工作,他的職等會比較高,所以你有沒有思索?\n\n08:00.546 --> 08:28.833\n如何來讓我們地方政府人員的值等能夠跟中央的值等的落差不要造成太大的落差要如何來調整有沒有思考過各位報告我們其實這幾年在地方的某一些值等上面如果實務上有需求全序部的考量都會比較放寬那考試院也都支持能夠盡量讓地方有留才的工具比如說以新北來講\n\n08:29.773 --> 08:31.194\n邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n08:53.490 --> 09:11.605\n但是我想地方政府還是需要留才你剛才也提到那如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定啊離職率不要說我一直想往心不在這個原單位啊如何的來去留住他們的心但我們一直該跟你討論就是有關職等的問題嘛\n\n09:12.586 --> 09:40.728\n所以我是建議我們是不是就我們地方政府人員值等如何來提升他們的值等來克服我們存在已久的值等落差的問題這方面是不是可以在這個我一個月內提出書面報告給我可不可以我們把目前已經處理完了跟正在討論中的來跟委員做一個說明好我再請教我們剛才大家一直提到說數位治理數位值能的問題\n\n09:42.554 --> 10:07.627\n當然我想我們考試院保訓會有一個叫做一等公務員學習平台本席在意的是一個數位落差的問題雖然有這個學習平台也就是說對於資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較親近的公務人員是有差異的這個您贊成嗎?秘書長\n\n10:11.732 --> 10:15.161\n有這樣的差異嗎?所以針對這個問題我們有如何解決方案了沒有?\n\n10:22.633 --> 10:48.391\n現在目前在員公務機關的這些資深的公務人員他們的數位治理能力跟新進的是有落差你如何的來培訓他們這個在職訓練的部分這個其實比較屬於人事總署的訓練業務不過其實各機關都會重視這個問題像我們自己考試院內部我們也都會一直在開放比如現在AI這絕對是未來工具性的革命\n\n10:49.372 --> 10:49.412\n聖龍介委員\n\n11:04.811 --> 11:12.876\n資通人員的考用問題來就教你,剛才你也回答一個重點就是說在113年我們修正公務人員高考三等考試就在113年我們就會針對這個資通安全類科我們開始來這個考用\n\n11:22.438 --> 11:46.171\n但是我現在前幾天我也問那個人事總長有關於說我們的資安長我們行政院各機關各部會的資安長目前都是由非專業的副所長來兼任所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要\n\n11:47.290 --> 12:04.075\n所以我想請教秘書長這部分你未來要如何來精進這些政府機關相關就是我們剛才一直提到的這些資深的人員的數位職能及他的數位治理能力尤其治安長\n\n12:05.936 --> 12:21.117\n資安長的部分他為什麼現在這個都是由高階的副首長來兼任最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關各單位但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚\n\n12:22.279 --> 12:37.933\n這我了解,但是秘書長我回到我剛才的建議我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決學術公務員工作條件上的各項需求尤其現在面對我們資安\n\n12:38.954 --> 12:39.094\n林思銘議員\n\n12:54.286 --> 12:54.907\n謝謝林委員、秘書長及郝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.442,"end":34.935,"text":"好 謝謝主席主席請秘書長有請劉秘書長好 秘書長早委員早安是 秘書長我先就講這個就是我想前幾天有發生因為那個臺北市社會局有一位女科員涉及販毒的一個事件那這個事情依據媒體在3月7號的一個揭露"},{"start":36.255,"end":53.54,"text":"女科員涉嫌販毒遭逮捕後以20萬元交保後傳北市社會局也在事發隔日要召開考機委員會並要求女科員出席陳述申辯不過這位女科員她缺席考機會"},{"start":55.52,"end":81.137,"text":"臺北市社會局表示,因為當事人沒有出席考試會﹚沒有完成所謂的陳述跟申辯程序﹚所以會再通知當事人預計7天內含例假日會再開考試會﹚目前也將現有關鍵證據依照公務人員服務法﹚公務人員懲戒法及相關規範來依附懲戒﹚並先行停止其職務﹚"},{"start":82.358,"end":94.213,"text":"而以公務人員奉旗法的規定停職期間仍可領取半薪。這是台北市政府的一個新聞稿那我想就叫秘書長"},{"start":95.937,"end":121.469,"text":"您認為因為個人犯刑責而遭停職的處分,卻仍可以領取半薪半奉,這樣合理嗎?符合我們社會的觀感及人民的法律情感嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分涉及對於目前懲戒或懲處工具的應用,那我這個是不是請周部長來做?好,請部長回答"},{"start":122.967,"end":140.013,"text":"因為在目前這個案例因為還沒有判決確定在判決確定之前用停職那給判刑是維持他基本的生活是給他適當的一個保障但是因為我們在還沒有判刑確定之前基本上還是要推定無罪"},{"start":140.553,"end":147.58,"text":"您剛才的論述就是說您基於無罪推定的原則所以會保障他的基本生活所以給他半分但是我想這樣子針對每個案子都不一樣"},{"start":165.68,"end":194.995,"text":"那你像這種販毒的案子啊販毒涉及公務人員涉及販毒啊還可以領半薪啊我想這個對人民的法律情感真的是非常不能接受大家觀感非常差這個已經造成說我們公務人員的聲譽很大的影響這種人因為他這個還沒有判刑確定或者一直還沒有判決那因為受到停止職務停職人可以領半薪那"},{"start":195.515,"end":216.932,"text":"我現在問你,你認為以你個人的觀感,你認為這個合理嗎?我們先不講法律啦,你的感覺啦,你個人的感受。所以你的觀感也不好嘛,對不對?那既然說權敘部委感覺觀感不好,這個法制是不是有檢討修正的必要性?"},{"start":217.728,"end":217.828,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":238.493,"end":260.131,"text":"其實說我們雖然尊重無罪推定的原則但是我們是不是就得依照諷刑法保留得知給半信本諷的彈性空間是否仍有它的一個必要性當然你現在是該講得是授權那個行政機關本身來做決定"},{"start":261.132,"end":276.14,"text":"但是你把這種事情全部授權行政機關而不去在法制面上做修正那這個會造成行政機關他們在這個運用上會有很大的一個疑慮給首長太大的權利"},{"start":277.401,"end":305.821,"text":"所以這部分這個學者也建議說應該慎重設計相關的要件來這個符合我們法律的一個設計所以這部分我是今天有一個提案要求說我們這個考試院能夠就這個部分能夠在三個月提出一個修正建議的必要去延期是否有修正的一個必要性就相關的要件是不是做制度的一個修改"},{"start":308.562,"end":309.823,"text":"請問秘書長對於今年考試報名的人數您樂觀嗎?"},{"start":335.216,"end":342.101,"text":"我覺得有一個部分可以期待因為我們今年高補考是大規模減科減少考科的第一屆的實施"},{"start":345.476,"end":347.097,"text":"所以你也思考說怎麼樣讓這個考生能夠回流"},{"start":375.317,"end":388.96,"text":"對,因為我們看到就是說在五年內來看的話我們高考報考人數2019年是四萬五千多人到去年的報考人數已降到三萬七千多人所以一直在下降"},{"start":390.1,"end":407.039,"text":"那我想看秘書長您回答我們幾位委員的有關於這個公務人員報考人數下滑的原因剛才那個部長也有回答就第一個是少子化的原因另外因為外部競爭的關係還有第三個是因為那個待遇的問題"},{"start":408.621,"end":433.632,"text":"但是我觀察到一個面向就是說這個現在我們在原單位的公務人員離職率非常高我們以新北市為例我們看新北市新北市它在2022年它的離職數是298人但是調往中央的往中央跑的人數高達166人"},{"start":436.653,"end":459.59,"text":"所以這個面向我們看到就是說因為很多人他不願意在原來的這個地方待他希望到中央單位去所以我們導致說我們地方政府人員的人員他常常很多的人他心不在地方政府他一直想往上爬那為什麼會這些造成說這些公務人員一直想往中央跑的一個原因"},{"start":459.998,"end":479.452,"text":"中央機關職等比較高啦,我想公務員,優秀公務員追逐生前這個也很自然。是,所以秘書長你也提到問題的核心啊,地方政府的職等比較低嘛,一樣的職務的話,一樣工作嘛,但是到中央做一樣的工作,他的職等會比較高,所以你有沒有思索?"},{"start":480.546,"end":508.833,"text":"如何來讓我們地方政府人員的值等能夠跟中央的值等的落差不要造成太大的落差要如何來調整有沒有思考過各位報告我們其實這幾年在地方的某一些值等上面如果實務上有需求全序部的考量都會比較放寬那考試院也都支持能夠盡量讓地方有留才的工具比如說以新北來講"},{"start":509.773,"end":511.194,"text":"邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":533.49,"end":551.605,"text":"但是我想地方政府還是需要留才你剛才也提到那如何讓我們國家的人才庫能夠穩定啊離職率不要說我一直想往心不在這個原單位啊如何的來去留住他們的心但我們一直該跟你討論就是有關職等的問題嘛"},{"start":552.586,"end":580.728,"text":"所以我是建議我們是不是就我們地方政府人員值等如何來提升他們的值等來克服我們存在已久的值等落差的問題這方面是不是可以在這個我一個月內提出書面報告給我可不可以我們把目前已經處理完了跟正在討論中的來跟委員做一個說明好我再請教我們剛才大家一直提到說數位治理數位值能的問題"},{"start":582.554,"end":607.627,"text":"當然我想我們考試院保訓會有一個叫做一等公務員學習平台本席在意的是一個數位落差的問題雖然有這個學習平台也就是說對於資歷比較深的公務人員對於數位化的熟悉度跟比較親近的公務人員是有差異的這個您贊成嗎?秘書長"},{"start":611.732,"end":615.161,"text":"有這樣的差異嗎?所以針對這個問題我們有如何解決方案了沒有?"},{"start":622.633,"end":648.391,"text":"現在目前在員公務機關的這些資深的公務人員他們的數位治理能力跟新進的是有落差你如何的來培訓他們這個在職訓練的部分這個其實比較屬於人事總署的訓練業務不過其實各機關都會重視這個問題像我們自己考試院內部我們也都會一直在開放比如現在AI這絕對是未來工具性的革命"},{"start":649.372,"end":649.412,"text":"聖龍介委員"},{"start":664.811,"end":672.876,"text":"資通人員的考用問題來就教你,剛才你也回答一個重點就是說在113年我們修正公務人員高考三等考試就在113年我們就會針對這個資通安全類科我們開始來這個考用"},{"start":682.438,"end":706.171,"text":"但是我現在前幾天我也問那個人事總長有關於說我們的資安長我們行政院各機關各部會的資安長目前都是由非專業的副所長來兼任所以現階段我們要如何實際增強政府人員的數位職能以及數位治理能力就很重要"},{"start":707.29,"end":724.075,"text":"所以我想請教秘書長這部分你未來要如何來精進這些政府機關相關就是我們剛才一直提到的這些資深的人員的數位職能及他的數位治理能力尤其治安長"},{"start":725.936,"end":741.117,"text":"資安長的部分他為什麼現在這個都是由高階的副首長來兼任最主要是因為他必須要能夠協調各機關各單位但是他會有專業的同仁做他的幕僚"},{"start":742.279,"end":757.933,"text":"這我了解,但是秘書長我回到我剛才的建議我是建議無論如何請保訓會要好好的研議如何解決學術公務員工作條件上的各項需求尤其現在面對我們資安"},{"start":758.954,"end":759.094,"text":"林思銘議員"},{"start":774.286,"end":774.907,"text":"謝謝林委員、秘書長及郝部長"}]}}}}