{"id":149775,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149775","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903993c721a413e13d014b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a62357e572c87655e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:50:40 - 11:01:28","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":648,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:01:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T10:50:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":666,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時50分）好，謝謝主席。我們請勞動部部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：王委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，你記不記得過去你曾經說過即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行勞保年金改革？你有沒有說過這句話？"],["許部長銘春：這句話不是我說的，是在訪問的時候媒體問我說你這個會丟烏紗帽，是這樣子講的，而我是說該做的事情，我就要去做，我是這樣回答他啦！"],["王委員育敏：好，所以關於勞保負債13兆，即將在2028年破產，你到底想改還是不想改？有沒有改革的計畫？到目前為止本席看到我們這一些老年給付金額，過去10年，你看這個圖，我們從102年到111年暴增了2倍，所有精算報告都已經直指2028年其實年金就要破產，但是到目前為止，本席都沒有看到我們主責的勞動部年金改革計畫到底在哪裡，過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍公教勞一起改，結果軍公教年改已經完成了，但是有關於勞保年金的改革，到現在遲遲未上路、遲遲未啟動。本席想要就教部長，這個問題到底是出在哪裡？是你做為勞動部長，你不敢去提方案，不敢改？還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動，不要有任何的計畫？到底是哪一個？是你自己沒有改革計畫，還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好，勞保根本不用改？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，關於這個問題，我們一直很審慎地在做一些研議。"],["王委員育敏：有嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有。報告委員，主要幾個面向，委員應該清楚，因為整個財務要改……，其實勞保年改的目的是要解決財務的問題。"],["王委員育敏：是。"],["許部長銘春：解決財務的問題這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去討論的，我這麼說，這個當然就是包括費率調整的部分、包括平均薪資的採計年間、包括年資給付率是不是要調整，還有就是撥補。不管怎麼樣，這個撥補是一定要的，因為所有面向它都是連動的。"],["王委員育敏：我知道，但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎？"],["許部長銘春：撥補沒有辦法完全解決，撥補是……"],["王委員育敏：是啊！而且現在撥補是幾百億欸，又不是1、2千億。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，今年是到1,200億，再加特別預算一共是1,300。我跟委員報告，這個撥補並不能完全解決問題，但是其實對我們基金財務的穩定是有幫助。"],["王委員育敏：那你這是短期的救急啊！但是就廣大1,000萬勞工來講，短期的救急方案是解決之道嗎？蔡政府執政已經8年了，還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待？如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子龜縮起來，然後不敢提任何方案，我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個問題當然一定要去面對處理。"],["王委員育敏：什麼時候要面對？什麼時候要提方案？我是幫廣大的勞工，因為週遭都有勞工朋友說媒體都這樣子在報，就是說2028年要破產，這些年輕的勞工就很擔心啊！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我必須還是要讓委員知道，所謂的破產是基金用完。"],["王委員育敏：是。"],["許部長銘春：這個部分其實是整個財務可能會面臨用罄的問題，但是對於勞工的權益，因為這是政府辦的保險，政府一定會負給付責任。我很怕有時候一講破產這句話，勞工又不瞭解，會以為到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了，而造成恐慌。"],["王委員育敏：是啦，但是收支就是不平衡，現在負債已經13兆了。"],["許部長銘春：委員，我必須這麼說，我還是要利用這個機會一定要跟勞工朋友講，這個基金用盡並不代表你就領不到錢，因為這是政府辦的保險，政府一定會負給付責任。所以我說……"],["王委員育敏：但是一個保險現在負債這麼高，勞工擔心也是合理啊！"],["許部長銘春：勞工當然會擔心，他們希望我們財務解決，讓它能夠穩定，讓這個能夠永續，這個是政府……"],["王委員育敏：是啊！但是因為你沒有解決方案啊！"],["許部長銘春：我跟委員報告，我們方案……"],["王委員育敏：就沒有方案啊！"],["許部長銘春：方案還在擬具當中，報告委員……"],["王委員育敏：部長，你已經做幾年了？7年了吧？"],["許部長銘春：沒有啦！6年多。"],["王委員育敏：6年多？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["王委員育敏：6年多都還在研議？"],["許部長銘春：但是委員我跟你說，我們現在是這樣，至少讓現在的基金是穩定的，然後我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上，勞資團體包括各政黨，大家面對這個問題一起……"],["王委員育敏：部長，你現在根本沒有提出任何關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題，沒有任何方案欸！現在你們自己去官網看，你們的年金改革一直停滯在意見蒐集的階段。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，目前沒有方案就是因為還沒有一定的共識啦！"],["王委員育敏：你根本會也沒有開啊！怎麼會有共識？你們根本不敢踏出那一步，因為只要一開始行動，你們就怕被檢討。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，那個不是我參與的，但是上一次年金改革委員會其實有討論到勞保的問題。"],["王委員育敏：現在停滯啦！那是多久以前的事了？"],["許部長銘春：大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦，只是說這個面向到底要怎麼去做處理。"],["王委員育敏：所以現在到底是你不能改，還是不敢改？還是上面有交代說先不要動？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，不是，都不是。我現在還是要持續，我的意思是說還是要勞資團體和我們有相當的溝通啦！"],["王委員育敏：部長，本席看到就是沒有持續。好啦！這個問題我就是要讓部長知道這是重中之重，做為執政黨哪有那麼好當，該扛的就是要扛，該解決的、要面對的就是要面對嘛！"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["王委員育敏：但是你們這樣子一直拖延，一拖再拖，其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的，因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題，這是第一個！第二個我要問你，臺印MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院？送了沒？"],["許部長銘春：還沒，報告委員，因為我們2月26日接到，我們就是按照條約締結法的規定，30天內，就是我們在3月26日之前會送進去，因為現在他們在簽辦當中。"],["王委員育敏：326會送到行政院？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["王委員育敏：那什麼時候會送立法院？4月初？"],["許部長銘春：就是行政院備查之後，我們就會送立法院這裡。"],["王委員育敏：好，所以大概是4月初會送進來立法院嘛！"],["許部長銘春：可能，應該是……"],["王委員育敏：你們沒有時間表嗎？"],["許部長銘春：不是，因為要等行政院備查，他回文給我們說備查，我們就會送立法院，應該4月我看差不多了，可能啦！"],["王委員育敏：好。本席上個禮拜有接見很多移工團體，他們很關心這件事情，第一個，他們有反映到有關於臺印要簽MOU這件事情，他們希望要能達到G to G，就是政府對政府，而且希望這個是唯一方案，因為他們已經看到現行直聘中心相關制度還有很多缺失，你們也沒有改，但是他們認為臺印的部分，部長，你也有說會是從小規模開始，既然是小規模就可以用一個新的作法來做這件事情。部長，你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力研議G to G的方案？"],["許部長銘春：會。"],["王委員育敏：好，你答應了喔！另外一個就是這些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再次簽MOU，你知道吧？"],["許部長銘春：應該是漁業署的境外遠洋漁工。"],["王委員育敏：對，是關於遠洋漁工，連這樣子印尼官方還邀臺灣的移工團體透過視訊，在簽MOU之前要瞭解這些團體的想法，我覺得印尼這樣的作法非常進步，連我們臺灣移工團體的意見都充分尊重，然後再納入他的意見，再來簽MOU。但是反觀我們的作法，我們是簽了MOU之後，事後才要開相關的會議，再來蒐集意見。這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前怎麼都沒有邀請他們？而他們是最關心這些外籍移工問題的人，為什麼你不邀他們呢？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，跟各位報告，其實我們歷來，包括之前5個來源國，我記得到6個，還有馬來西亞。過去我們都是……"],["王委員育敏：都沒有徵詢團體的意見。"],["許部長銘春：都沒有。"],["王委員育敏：部長，那你要改變作法啊！你可以改變一個好的作法，你要比前面更進步啊！那我問你，你將來要開的這些會議，上次本席有問過，你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較有代表性的移工團體有機會進到你的會議小組裡面？我覺得他們是真正關心移工相關權益的一群人，不要把他們排除在外，讓他們的意見納進來，才可以讓臺印雙方未來MOU的內容更完備，或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這些移工的權益，是不是可以承諾邀這些代表性的移工團體進來你的委員會？"],["許部長銘春：這個可以。"],["王委員育敏：可以？"],["許部長銘春：可以。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望今天部長的承諾要做到，擴大讓這些公民團體來參與只有好處，沒有壞處，因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到，然後讓這些外籍移工來到臺灣之後，不要被剝削，而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障，達到雙贏的目標，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊曜","王育敏","李坤城","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","羅智強","牛煦庭","劉建國","王鴻薇","張雅琳","黃仁","吳春城","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林德福","葉元之"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149775","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149775","tool":"pyannote","id":"149775-pyannote"},"job_id":"0Rpxn0Ran3vsftUS","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 645.433, \"end\": 645.534, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 645.534, \"end\": 646.356, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 646.356, \"end\": 646.697, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"坤\", \"start\": 646.697, \"end\": 646.997, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 646.997, \"end\": 647.258, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 647.258, \"end\": 647.278, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,111 --> 00:00:03,135\n好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,281 --> 00:00:34,431\n王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個媒體齁他問我說那你這會丟烏紗帽啊齁他是這樣子講我是說該做的事情我就要去做我是這樣回答他啦\n\n3\n00:00:35,071 --> 00:00:52,016\n好所以關於勞保負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍\n\n4\n00:01:00,259 --> 00:01:24,719\n那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改\n\n5\n00:01:25,599 --> 00:01:52,708\n結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫\n\n6\n00:01:54,148 --> 00:02:04,782\n到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議有嗎\n\n7\n00:02:09,648 --> 00:02:25,659\n有,那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的它是在要解決財務的問題那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說\n\n8\n00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:45,751\n好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採進年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面相它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是同時而且你現在撥補\n\n9\n00:02:52,475 --> 00:03:21,615\n是幾百億又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年了\n\n10\n00:03:22,575 --> 00:03:40,167\n跟委員報告還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說\n\n11\n00:03:50,254 --> 00:04:15,841\n媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話\n\n12\n00:04:17,621 --> 00:04:24,671\n老公要不了解,他有說我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了。是啊,就是你的收支就是不平衡,因為你現在負債已經13兆啦。我必須這麼說,我還是要利用這個機會,因為我一定要跟老公朋友講說這個基金用心並不代表你就領不到錢,因為這是政府辦的保險。\n\n13\n00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:53,115\n政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續這個是政府方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧\n\n14\n00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:02,440\n我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上\n\n15\n00:05:17,632 --> 00:05:18,993\n我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革\n\n16\n00:05:42,649 --> 00:05:46,615\n你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討\n\n17\n00:06:00,473 --> 00:06:19,908\n因爲那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要\n\n18\n00:06:21,189 --> 00:06:49,805\n持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那一個\n\n19\n00:06:50,405 --> 00:07:12,607\n台映的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院送了沒還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院4月初\n\n20\n00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:20,265\n就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡\n\n21\n00:07:21,428 --> 00:07:50,871\n好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎?可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎?不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了好這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望\n\n22\n00:07:51,411 --> 00:08:17,442\n要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案\n\n23\n00:08:21,785 --> 00:08:31,512\n會會好你答應了吼好那另外一個呢就是這一些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再一次簽mou你知道吧\n\n24\n00:08:33,528 --> 00:08:52,228\n應該是1月屬的境外遠洋漁工對是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還要臺灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步\n\n25\n00:08:52,648 --> 00:09:19,287\n就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢\n\n26\n00:09:20,368 --> 00:09:23,329\n國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步那我問你那後面的\n\n27\n00:09:40,034 --> 00:09:44,517\n你將來要開的這些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這群人不要把他們排除在外\n\n28\n00:09:58,567 --> 00:10:14,626\n讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會\n\n29\n00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:39,427\n我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長\n\n30\n00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:47,278\n謝謝王委員接下來請李坤成委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1111\t3135\t好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長\n9281\t34431\t王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個媒體齁他問我說那你這會丟烏紗帽啊齁他是這樣子講我是說該做的事情我就要去做我是這樣回答他啦\n35071\t52016\t好所以關於勞保負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍\n60259\t84719\t那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改\n85599\t112708\t結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫\n114148\t124782\t到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議有嗎\n129648\t145659\t有,那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的它是在要解決財務的問題那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說\n147800\t165751\t好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採進年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面相它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是同時而且你現在撥補\n172475\t201615\t是幾百億又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年了\n202575\t220167\t跟委員報告還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說\n230254\t255841\t媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話\n257621\t264671\t老公要不了解,他有說我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了。是啊,就是你的收支就是不平衡,因為你現在負債已經13兆啦。我必須這麼說,我還是要利用這個機會,因為我一定要跟老公朋友講說這個基金用心並不代表你就領不到錢,因為這是政府辦的保險。\n274665\t293115\t政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續這個是政府方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧\n301920\t302440\t我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上\n317632\t318993\t我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革\n342649\t346615\t你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討\n360473\t379908\t因爲那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要\n381189\t409805\t持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那一個\n410405\t432607\t台映的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院送了沒還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院4月初\n434469\t440265\t就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡\n441428\t470871\t好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎?可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎?不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了好這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望\n471411\t497442\t要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案\n501785\t511512\t會會好你答應了吼好那另外一個呢就是這一些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再一次簽mou你知道吧\n513528\t532228\t應該是1月屬的境外遠洋漁工對是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還要臺灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步\n532648\t559287\t就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢\n560368\t563329\t國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步那我問你那後面的\n580034\t584517\t你將來要開的這些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這群人不要把他們排除在外\n598567\t614626\t讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會\n619090\t639427\t我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長\n644170\t647278\t謝謝王委員接下來請李坤成委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長\n王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個媒體齁他問我說那你這會丟烏紗帽啊齁他是這樣子講我是說該做的事情我就要去做我是這樣回答他啦\n好所以關於勞保負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍\n那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改\n結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫\n到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議有嗎\n有,那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的它是在要解決財務的問題那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說\n好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採進年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面相它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是同時而且你現在撥補\n是幾百億又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年了\n跟委員報告還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說\n媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話\n老公要不了解,他有說我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了。是啊,就是你的收支就是不平衡,因為你現在負債已經13兆啦。我必須這麼說,我還是要利用這個機會,因為我一定要跟老公朋友講說這個基金用心並不代表你就領不到錢,因為這是政府辦的保險。\n政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續這個是政府方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧\n我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上\n我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革\n你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討\n因爲那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要\n持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那一個\n台映的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院送了沒還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院4月初\n就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡\n好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎?可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎?不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了好這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望\n要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案\n會會好你答應了吼好那另外一個呢就是這一些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再一次簽mou你知道吧\n應該是1月屬的境外遠洋漁工對是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還要臺灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步\n就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢\n國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步那我問你那後面的\n你將來要開的這些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這群人不要把他們排除在外\n讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會\n我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長\n謝謝王委員接下來請李坤成委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.111 --> 00:03.135\n好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長\n\n00:09.281 --> 00:34.431\n王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個媒體齁他問我說那你這會丟烏紗帽啊齁他是這樣子講我是說該做的事情我就要去做我是這樣回答他啦\n\n00:35.071 --> 00:52.016\n好所以關於勞保負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍\n\n01:00.259 --> 01:24.719\n那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改\n\n01:25.599 --> 01:52.708\n結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫\n\n01:54.148 --> 02:04.782\n到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議有嗎\n\n02:09.648 --> 02:25.659\n有,那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的它是在要解決財務的問題那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說\n\n02:27.800 --> 02:45.751\n好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採進年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面相它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是同時而且你現在撥補\n\n02:52.475 --> 03:21.615\n是幾百億又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年了\n\n03:22.575 --> 03:40.167\n跟委員報告還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說\n\n03:50.254 --> 04:15.841\n媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話\n\n04:17.621 --> 04:24.671\n老公要不了解,他有說我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了。是啊,就是你的收支就是不平衡,因為你現在負債已經13兆啦。我必須這麼說,我還是要利用這個機會,因為我一定要跟老公朋友講說這個基金用心並不代表你就領不到錢,因為這是政府辦的保險。\n\n04:34.665 --> 04:53.115\n政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續這個是政府方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧\n\n05:01.920 --> 05:02.440\n我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上\n\n05:17.632 --> 05:18.993\n我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革\n\n05:42.649 --> 05:46.615\n你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討\n\n06:00.473 --> 06:19.908\n因爲那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要\n\n06:21.189 --> 06:49.805\n持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那一個\n\n06:50.405 --> 07:12.607\n台映的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院送了沒還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院4月初\n\n07:14.469 --> 07:20.265\n就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡\n\n07:21.428 --> 07:50.871\n好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎?可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎?不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了好這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望\n\n07:51.411 --> 08:17.442\n要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案\n\n08:21.785 --> 08:31.512\n會會好你答應了吼好那另外一個呢就是這一些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再一次簽mou你知道吧\n\n08:33.528 --> 08:52.228\n應該是1月屬的境外遠洋漁工對是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還要臺灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步\n\n08:52.648 --> 09:19.287\n就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢\n\n09:20.368 --> 09:23.329\n國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步那我問你那後面的\n\n09:40.034 --> 09:44.517\n你將來要開的這些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這群人不要把他們排除在外\n\n09:58.567 --> 10:14.626\n讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會\n\n10:19.090 --> 10:39.427\n我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長\n\n10:44.170 --> 10:47.278\n謝謝王委員接下來請李坤成委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.111,"end":3.135,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長"},{"start":9.281,"end":34.431,"text":"王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個媒體齁他問我說那你這會丟烏紗帽啊齁他是這樣子講我是說該做的事情我就要去做我是這樣回答他啦"},{"start":35.071,"end":52.016,"text":"好所以關於勞保負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍"},{"start":60.259,"end":84.719,"text":"那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改"},{"start":85.599,"end":112.708,"text":"結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫"},{"start":114.148,"end":124.782,"text":"到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議有嗎"},{"start":129.648,"end":145.659,"text":"有,那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的它是在要解決財務的問題那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說"},{"start":147.8,"end":165.751,"text":"好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採進年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面相它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是同時而且你現在撥補"},{"start":172.475,"end":201.615,"text":"是幾百億又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年了"},{"start":202.575,"end":220.167,"text":"跟委員報告還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說"},{"start":230.254,"end":255.841,"text":"媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話"},{"start":257.621,"end":264.671,"text":"老公要不了解,他有說我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了。是啊,就是你的收支就是不平衡,因為你現在負債已經13兆啦。我必須這麼說,我還是要利用這個機會,因為我一定要跟老公朋友講說這個基金用心並不代表你就領不到錢,因為這是政府辦的保險。"},{"start":274.665,"end":293.115,"text":"政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續這個是政府方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧"},{"start":301.92,"end":302.44,"text":"我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上"},{"start":317.632,"end":318.993,"text":"我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革"},{"start":342.649,"end":346.615,"text":"你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討"},{"start":360.473,"end":379.908,"text":"因爲那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要"},{"start":381.189,"end":409.805,"text":"持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那一個"},{"start":410.405,"end":432.607,"text":"台映的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院送了沒還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院4月初"},{"start":434.469,"end":440.265,"text":"就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡"},{"start":441.428,"end":470.871,"text":"好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎?可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎?不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了好這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望"},{"start":471.411,"end":497.442,"text":"要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案"},{"start":501.785,"end":511.512,"text":"會會好你答應了吼好那另外一個呢就是這一些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再一次簽mou你知道吧"},{"start":513.528,"end":532.228,"text":"應該是1月屬的境外遠洋漁工對是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還要臺灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步"},{"start":532.648,"end":559.287,"text":"就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢"},{"start":560.368,"end":563.329,"text":"國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步那我問你那後面的"},{"start":580.034,"end":584.517,"text":"你將來要開的這些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這些比較代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這群人不要把他們排除在外"},{"start":598.567,"end":614.626,"text":"讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會"},{"start":619.09,"end":639.427,"text":"我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長"},{"start":644.17,"end":647.278,"text":"謝謝王委員接下來請李坤成委員"}]}}}}