{"id":149776,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149776","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903a87780a875cf0a3a14b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a6923b70b41c55a0415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:01:34 - 11:08:40","影片長度":"00:07:06","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":426,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:08:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:01:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":737,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時1分）謝謝主席。有請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好。我過去在擔任市議員的時候，也常常會接到一些勞資爭議的陳情案件，還滿多的，那時候是勞工局會處理。我就幾個案件的數字來請教部長，109年勞動事件法實施之後，從109年到112年勞資爭議案件統計中可見，109年是2萬7,000件，到112年是2萬6,000件，大概有稍微減少一點點，但是其中送到地方法院受理的案件，這4年來平均大概都是1萬件左右。我看到司法院的新聞稿上有寫，勞動調解案及訴訟案平均終結天數分別是63.47天及116.35天，少於法定期間90天及180天，所以勞動事件調解成立率為57%，大概快六成，對勞方來講相對是有利的。所以本席要請教部長，就統計來看，勞資爭議的案件，法院審理可以得到快速處理，而且對勞方是有利的，但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著地減少。部長，你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓勞工願意且便於使用訴訟程序來解決爭端，所以我覺得訴訟案件會增加，其實對勞權保障來講並沒有不好。"],["李委員坤城：我也沒有說不好，只是勞資爭議的案件也沒有減少啦！"],["許部長銘春：是，當然如何減少勞資爭議，這個要從譬如說爭議的原因去探討，然後……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是，我們一般都希望勞資能夠協調就協調，也不一定最後是上法院，可是我也發現臺灣的資方似乎寧願請律師上法院，也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件。因為我看地方受理的案件平均也都是1萬件左右，其實也沒有減少啊！"],["許部長銘春：有時候是牽涉到資方的意願等等，這個也沒辦法勉強，但是……"],["李委員坤城：其實我們在做調處的時候，比如說勞工局，他們會去資方調閱相關的文件，讓資方也覺得勞工局有在重視這件事情，但是平均下來大概有接近三分之一最後還是上法院了，案件也沒有減少啦！我的用意在這裡，就是如果……"],["許部長銘春：委員是希望能夠儘量不要……"],["李委員坤城：對啊！我們還是希望站在勞方的角度來講。"],["許部長銘春：對，報告委員，其實在行政跟司法的調解上我們還是維持雙軌，像剛剛您講的法院的調解大概57%，勞動部這邊的行政調解大概都一半以上，我們也是儘量去減少爭訟……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是，還是要站在勞方的立場，能夠協調就協調，不鼓勵資方跟勞方打官司啦！我看那個數字大概沒有什麼顯著下降。","我再問你，我們在2004年開放家庭幫傭，其實家庭幫傭的標準很嚴格，有三個條件，包括有三名以上年齡6歲以下的子女，或是四名以上年齡12歲以下的子女且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下，或是累積點數滿16點，當然你們有一個累積點數表。可是就目前來講，我們都是少子化，如果有三個小孩，除非一次三胞胎，不然一次一胎的話，跨了6年就會不符合資格，因為可能到了第三胎，老大的年齡就超過了。然後部長應該知道，其實從2021年開始，我們已經連續37個月「生不如死」，你知道「生不如死」是什麼意思嗎？"],["許部長銘春：死亡比出生多。"],["李委員坤城：對，死亡比出生多。本席有接到一個案例，他們在申請的時候其實是符合資格的，可是因為幫傭在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題，所以他必須要換掉，雖然當初申請的時候是符合資格，但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了，就不符合資格了。其實我有請勞動力發展署來做過說明，他們也有給予協助，但是我個人是認為，對於家庭幫傭這個制度，在現在少子化的情況之下，這個限制其實是有點嚴格的，就是剛剛那三個條件，所以我想請勞動部回去檢討一下，你們能不能放寬資格條件？尤其現在是少子化的情況。","第二個，有關家庭看護的部分，他其實比幫傭還要再寬鬆一點，比如說家庭看護有遞補的制度，他不用重新申請，甚至也把遞補的期間縮短，比起幫傭來講，其實他的條件是比較寬鬆的。而我認為既然我們在鼓勵大家要生小孩，也希望給予孩子們更好的照顧條件，幫忙家長來分擔，部長，有關於家庭幫傭這方面的規定，你們能不能相對再放寬一點？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個我們來檢討，但是這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同的意見……"],["李委員坤城：我知道有不同的團體啦！"],["許部長銘春：所以我們這部分會再來做一些研議。"],["李委員坤城：因為條件的確是嚴格了一點，現在少子化的情況這麼嚴重，我們要鼓勵多生，為了鼓勵多生，我們也做了很多托育政策，有關家庭幫傭這部分，本席是認為可以再放鬆一點，不要給家庭造成太大的壓力，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["李委員坤城：當然不同團體有不同意見，我們也有接到相關的陳情，來做個衡平，稍微再調整一下。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員。","接下來請林淑芬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊曜","王育敏","李坤城","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","羅智強","牛煦庭","劉建國","王鴻薇","張雅琳","黃仁","吳春城","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林德福","葉元之"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149776","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149776","tool":"pyannote","id":"149776-pyannote"},"job_id":"Ty2Jo2rAX6FP3P9U","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"end\": 164.651, \"text\": \"可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 148.162, \"end\": 148.302, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 148.302, \"end\": 148.882, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.882, \"end\": 148.942, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 148.942, \"end\": 150.503, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.503, \"end\": 150.863, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 150.863, \"end\": 152.724, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"寧\"}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 152.724, \"end\": 154.785, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 154.785, \"end\": 154.966, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 154.966, \"end\": 155.106, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 155.106, 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0.758}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 413.701, \"end\": 413.841, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 413.841, \"end\": 413.861, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,013 --> 00:00:06,915\n謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長林元豪部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個\n\n2\n00:00:28,048 --> 00:00:35,176\n案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個\n\n3\n00:00:50,391 --> 00:01:07,163\n送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面有寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢\n\n4\n00:01:15,969 --> 00:01:39,859\n這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快60成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計的來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n5\n00:01:43,138 --> 00:02:05,692\n因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資增益案件也沒有減少\n\n6\n00:02:08,993 --> 00:02:26,481\n那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院\n\n7\n00:02:28,162 --> 00:02:44,651\n可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少\n\n8\n00:02:46,380 --> 00:03:07,537\n因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後\n\n9\n00:03:08,237 --> 00:03:30,827\n大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼這個案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要啊對啊還是對啊不然你你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦\n\n10\n00:03:32,168 --> 00:03:42,697\n好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政條約大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁\n\n11\n00:03:49,082 --> 00:03:53,085\n在2004年開放家庭幫傭家庭幫傭的標準是很嚴格的有三個條件有三名以上\n\n12\n00:04:06,414 --> 00:04:28,462\n那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁\n\n13\n00:04:29,842 --> 00:04:45,848\n這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎吼這個你的這個長這個這是老大吼有可能就是超過了啦吼然後部長你應該知道吼其實現在從2021年開始吼我們已經連續37個月吼生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎\n\n14\n00:04:47,891 --> 00:05:08,269\n對,死亡的比出生多對,死亡的比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養這個就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉\n\n15\n00:05:08,829 --> 00:05:32,515\n但是當換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化情況之下\n\n16\n00:05:33,415 --> 00:05:56,639\n這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格啦吼剛剛三個條件吼我是想請這個勞動部吼回去檢討一下吼就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說吼這個有關家庭看護的這部分吼他其實就比幫庸都還要再寬鬆一點吼比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至在也縮短了這個\n\n17\n00:05:57,227 --> 00:05:57,247\n部長﹗\n\n18\n00:06:25,111 --> 00:06:52,660\n包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個這個有關家庭包容這部分本期是認為是可以再放鬆一點不要給家庭造成太大的壓力好不好\n\n19\n00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:53,861\n李坤城委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4013\t6915\t謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長林元豪部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個\n28048\t35176\t案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個\n50391\t67163\t送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面有寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢\n75969\t99859\t這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快60成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計的來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣\n103138\t125692\t因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資增益案件也沒有減少\n128993\t146481\t那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院\n148162\t164651\t可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少\n166380\t187537\t因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後\n188237\t210827\t大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼這個案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要啊對啊還是對啊不然你你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦\n212168\t222697\t好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政條約大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁\n229082\t233085\t在2004年開放家庭幫傭 家庭幫傭的標準是很嚴格的 有三個條件 有三名以上\n246414\t268462\t那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁\n269842\t285848\t這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎吼這個你的這個長這個這是老大吼有可能就是超過了啦吼然後部長你應該知道吼其實現在從2021年開始吼我們已經連續37個月吼生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎\n287891\t308269\t對,死亡的比出生多對,死亡的比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養這個就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉\n308829\t332515\t但是當換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化情況之下\n333415\t356639\t這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格啦吼剛剛三個條件吼我是想請這個勞動部吼回去檢討一下吼就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說吼這個有關家庭看護的這部分吼他其實就比幫庸都還要再寬鬆一點吼比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至在也縮短了這個\n357227\t357247\t部長﹗\n385111\t412660\t包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個這個有關家庭包容這部分本期是認為是可以再放鬆一點不要給家庭造成太大的壓力好不好\n413440\t413861\t李坤城委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長林元豪部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個\n案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個\n送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面有寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢\n這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快60成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計的來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣\n因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資增益案件也沒有減少\n那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院\n可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少\n因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後\n大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼這個案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要啊對啊還是對啊不然你你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦\n好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政條約大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁\n在2004年開放家庭幫傭 家庭幫傭的標準是很嚴格的 有三個條件 有三名以上\n那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁\n這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎吼這個你的這個長這個這是老大吼有可能就是超過了啦吼然後部長你應該知道吼其實現在從2021年開始吼我們已經連續37個月吼生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎\n對,死亡的比出生多對,死亡的比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養這個就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉\n但是當換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化情況之下\n這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格啦吼剛剛三個條件吼我是想請這個勞動部吼回去檢討一下吼就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說吼這個有關家庭看護的這部分吼他其實就比幫庸都還要再寬鬆一點吼比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至在也縮短了這個\n部長﹗\n包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個這個有關家庭包容這部分本期是認為是可以再放鬆一點不要給家庭造成太大的壓力好不好\n李坤城委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.013 --> 00:06.915\n謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長林元豪部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個\n\n00:28.048 --> 00:35.176\n案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個\n\n00:50.391 --> 01:07.163\n送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面有寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢\n\n01:15.969 --> 01:39.859\n這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快60成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計的來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n01:43.138 --> 02:05.692\n因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資增益案件也沒有減少\n\n02:08.993 --> 02:26.481\n那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院\n\n02:28.162 --> 02:44.651\n可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少\n\n02:46.380 --> 03:07.537\n因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後\n\n03:08.237 --> 03:30.827\n大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼這個案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要啊對啊還是對啊不然你你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦\n\n03:32.168 --> 03:42.697\n好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政條約大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁\n\n03:49.082 --> 03:53.085\n在2004年開放家庭幫傭家庭幫傭的標準是很嚴格的有三個條件有三名以上\n\n04:06.414 --> 04:28.462\n那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁\n\n04:29.842 --> 04:45.848\n這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎吼這個你的這個長這個這是老大吼有可能就是超過了啦吼然後部長你應該知道吼其實現在從2021年開始吼我們已經連續37個月吼生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎\n\n04:47.891 --> 05:08.269\n對,死亡的比出生多對,死亡的比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養這個就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉\n\n05:08.829 --> 05:32.515\n但是當換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化情況之下\n\n05:33.415 --> 05:56.639\n這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格啦吼剛剛三個條件吼我是想請這個勞動部吼回去檢討一下吼就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說吼這個有關家庭看護的這部分吼他其實就比幫庸都還要再寬鬆一點吼比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至在也縮短了這個\n\n05:57.227 --> 05:57.247\n部長﹗\n\n06:25.111 --> 06:52.660\n包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個這個有關家庭包容這部分本期是認為是可以再放鬆一點不要給家庭造成太大的壓力好不好\n\n06:53.440 --> 06:53.861\n李坤城委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.013,"end":6.915,"text":"謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長林元豪部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個"},{"start":28.048,"end":35.176,"text":"案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個"},{"start":50.391,"end":67.163,"text":"送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面有寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢"},{"start":75.969,"end":99.859,"text":"這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快60成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計的來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":103.138,"end":125.692,"text":"因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資增益案件也沒有減少"},{"start":128.993,"end":146.481,"text":"那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院"},{"start":148.162,"end":164.651,"text":"可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少"},{"start":166.38,"end":187.537,"text":"因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後"},{"start":188.237,"end":210.827,"text":"大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼這個案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要啊對啊還是對啊不然你你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦"},{"start":212.168,"end":222.697,"text":"好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政條約大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁"},{"start":229.082,"end":233.085,"text":"在2004年開放家庭幫傭 家庭幫傭的標準是很嚴格的 有三個條件 有三名以上"},{"start":246.414,"end":268.462,"text":"那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁"},{"start":269.842,"end":285.848,"text":"這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎吼這個你的這個長這個這是老大吼有可能就是超過了啦吼然後部長你應該知道吼其實現在從2021年開始吼我們已經連續37個月吼生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎"},{"start":287.891,"end":308.269,"text":"對,死亡的比出生多對,死亡的比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養這個就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉"},{"start":308.829,"end":332.515,"text":"但是當換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化情況之下"},{"start":333.415,"end":356.639,"text":"這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格啦吼剛剛三個條件吼我是想請這個勞動部吼回去檢討一下吼就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說吼這個有關家庭看護的這部分吼他其實就比幫庸都還要再寬鬆一點吼比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至在也縮短了這個"},{"start":357.227,"end":357.247,"text":"部長﹗"},{"start":385.111,"end":412.66,"text":"包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個這個有關家庭包容這部分本期是認為是可以再放鬆一點不要給家庭造成太大的壓力好不好"},{"start":413.44,"end":413.861,"text":"李坤城委員"}]}}}}