{"id":149779,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149779","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903e29a1f01d50aa99914015affd80140c0f8ba9b0039caa7a6931d1867babebde95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:00:04 - 10:10:31","影片長度":"00:10:27","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案。(一)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議（一）「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議（一）「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。三、審查海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海巡署及所屬決議（一）「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。四、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-6"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":627,"end_time":"2024-03-13T10:10:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T10:00:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":688,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時）有請海委會主委，謝謝。"],["主席：來，主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委早安。我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情，3月5日大陸的臺辦副主任說，顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意嘛！他說反正否認事實、謊話連篇，又指控我們說設置各種障礙，所以感覺不歡而散嘛！對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們其實沒有謊話。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，聽我講完嘛！好不好？然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕等等。我們的陸委會也有講，第一階段的協商告一段落，可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商。","針對這件事情的後續處遇，本席有幾個問題要就教主委，第一個，我們要釐清一下這個談判的過程中，中國大陸這邊的立場、要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎？就是可以透露嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們儘量的信守不予透露的承諾，那……"],["牛委員煦庭：儘量的信守不予透露的承諾？聽起來蠻可怕的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們在談判的過程中……"],["牛委員煦庭：可以還是不可以？"],["管主任委員碧玲：在談判的過程之中，我們是絕對的都信守了，但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中，委員也知道我們海巡的同仁在幾次詢答的過程中，不得已就說了一些部分，但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所有人……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以答詢的時候不在此限喔？因為現在狀況是這樣，像昨天總質詢的時候，陳玉珍委員就有問，以他的瞭解，大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審，陳建仁院長說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情？那我們就也很好奇，也在問啊！為什麼王定宇委員3月4日的時候知道大陸要求我們要送審，要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情，對不對？要嘛如果可以透露，你乾脆今天講一講好了，到底有沒有這件事情？要不要釐清一下？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我想就我的瞭解，外界現在諸多的描述不盡精確……"],["牛委員煦庭：不盡精確？"],["管主任委員碧玲：不盡精確，對，我們很希望大家對於諸多的訊息，我們還是冷靜。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以海委會其實是基於談判要順利嘛！你的善的橋梁要要扎的穩，所以大家不應該多去臆測，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：過程之中這麼長的時間，為什麼我們就是忍著挨罵，不願意講案情？因為講了案情變成責任全部歸在對方，我們……"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，所以這就是本席要提醒你的，也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們同仁就是談判的同仁，就是談判桌上的同仁……"],["牛委員煦庭：如果談判的過程是不應該透露的，因為我們都清楚，談判當然要保密嘛！這些內容當然不應該為外人所道，那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點？"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是也因為這樣，我們真的……"],["牛委員煦庭：不管是藍的或者是綠的，都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩漏，不應該有這個狀況嘛！對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這過程之中也有很多的洩漏……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我是提醒政府這部分要避免啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：這過程之中也有很多的洩漏，是對我們以訛傳訛的資訊。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個本席願意理解啊！但我的意思是說既然消息有走漏，那你是不是內部有狀況？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性……"],["牛委員煦庭：要降低它的政治性嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：要降低它的對立性，要人道優先，這一直直是我的原則……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我第一個要提醒你的是，在保密的部分你可能要做一下瞭解跟調查，不要發生這樣的事情啦！好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們同仁絕對都不會……"],["牛委員煦庭：我願意尊重海委會的立場，也基於談判要順利，我們不會追問細節……"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝、謝謝，這真的很重要。"],["牛委員煦庭：但我要提醒你，你內部的東西管控要做好，這第一個。第二個，那我至少問一下嘛！就是說調查報告出爐之後，可能會有第二輪談判，現在我這樣講對不對？還是說乾脆就不談了？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們目前有做各種努力，其中的一種努力是希望人道優先，人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中，說實在是最具有高度共識的部分……"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，今天時間有限。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們很希望這個部分的話，我們越快找到解決的途徑越好，但是如果一定要把真相綁在一起就會拖，是變成這樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：根據陸委會說現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來，因為某一些層面的事實要做釐清嘛！對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：那是因為如果談的內容要全包就會那樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：那大概是什麼階段？比如說……你先聽我的問題嘛！所謂調查報告出爐是指起訴或不起訴？還是說判決還是什麼？有沒有一個明確的交代？就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，我說的就是其實是可以人道優先，我們抽出來先處理的，所以陸委會所說的是，目前對方的要求是希望我們一體解決。"],["牛委員煦庭：有沒有明確的答案？"],["管主任委員碧玲：那就會變成是司法調查。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你希望趕快談的意思囉？人道優先的部分重新談判？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們希望人道優先。"],["牛委員煦庭：希望人道優先的部分重新談判，好。"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實海巡署一直在努力，我們請署長說明好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，我還有待會要問署長的話……"],["管主任委員碧玲：真的有在努力。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為談判就是主觀，沒有問題……"],["管主任委員碧玲：談判……"],["牛委員煦庭：善的橋梁要繼續搭，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：善的橋梁我們一直在持續，我們……"],["牛委員煦庭：你有多大的把握可以繼續維持？"],["管主任委員碧玲：由於它不是單方面的……"],["牛委員煦庭：不是單方面。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們目前一直在努力，對於努力的成果或者是努力的障礙，我們比較希望不要公開議論，或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室跟委員說明，好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：好，你會後要說明我接受，到時候請署長來詳細說明，好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：再來我要問最近比較嚴重的，我為什麼那麼關心談判？萬一你們講的善的橋梁搭不起來的時候，這個問題持續升溫，其實對海巡弟兄來講是非常大的壓力。我舉幾個例子，像最近中國籍漁船直接闖入6海里，被認定是標準的領海範圍，那個壓力是非常大的，大家當然要依法驅離，對不對？不管是主委也好或是署長也好，應該對這個事情……這是大家的共識，我們也支持你要執法，對不對？三無漁船要執法，這進到6海里了我們當然要執法，可是我們看到的狀況是海巡署說因為風浪很大，對不對？人家漁船的噸位是300到500噸，結果我們那一天能夠出勤的巡防艇只有100噸，因為風浪大我們就沒辦法出勤。本席對這樣子的狀況非常擔心，人家現在已經不只是在金門用1萬噸的挖泥船直接侵門踏戶，對不對？按照你們剛剛的說法，這個理論上不被允許，就算過去有協議，但是挖泥船不算，對不對？這是一個，另外一個是人家直接在臺灣海峽的海域，也一樣侵門踏戶進到6海里範圍的時候，我們竟然派不出巡防艇，採取相應的阻止措施。海巡的執法作業流程到底該怎麼因應這樣的事情？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個涉及每一次的調度，這個部分我請中部分署的分署長回答。"],["牛委員煦庭：快一點，我們今天時間比較有限，好不好？節奏快一點。"],["王分署長正信：委員好。事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中，確實因為惡劣的海象，在隔天的時候，其中兩艘在大潭脫索離開，第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦執行驅離，事實是這樣子。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以有執行驅離？"],["王分署長正信：有執行。"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣，說沒有辦法去驅離？這不是很奇怪嗎？你說監控什麼的……"],["王分署長正信：不是，隔天它往北航行到大潭外海……"],["牛委員煦庭：隔天是不是？好。"],["王分署長正信：是由桃園艦南下支援驅離一艘。"],["牛委員煦庭：南下驅離。"],["王分署長正信：其中兩艘脫索離開了。"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在很擔心這個狀況，因為民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴，我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心，但是我懷疑有沒有能力維持對等尊嚴，你的設備、你的條件有沒有辦法長時間強力執法？這個是大家會擔心的事，既然說得到就要做得到，好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：謝謝委員的關心，我們在勤務調度上一定會做最適當的調……"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在怕，因為看起來……"],["周副主任委員美伍：對於剛剛委員的擔心，我特別說明，剛剛分署長已經說明，因為他是中部地區業管的分署長，對當天的情形非常瞭解。這三艘進入6海里的漁船，我們從開始進入就掌握，我們會視當時海象的狀況跟前進兵力的部署適時調整。"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在就擔心部署跟硬體，萬一我們都只有100噸的巡防艇，沒有辦法時時驅離的時候……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們會持續……"],["牛委員煦庭：這一件事情在國際上的解釋……"],["周副主任委員美伍：瞭解。"],["牛委員煦庭：是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力處理這一件事情？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，但是……"],["牛委員煦庭：會影響整體的布局，對不對？這是危險的嘛！"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，但是後續造船的計畫都有持續加入我們的行列，所以這方面我們還會持續……"],["牛委員煦庭：好，另外我要提醒一下署長，3月4日，我們上一次質詢的時候就有要求，希望有越界處遇方式的書面資料，但截至目前為止，我是沒有收到的。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們應該是……"],["牛委員煦庭：還沒有交出來，好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：應該送過去了。"],["牛委員煦庭：我現在就加碼，第一個是越界的處遇方式；第二個是相關硬體設施要怎麼補強、時程是什麼、你有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情？一方面維持善的橋梁，二方面守住對等尊嚴，你打算怎麼處理這一件事情？社會大眾是關心的，所以請署長會後……既然都說要來說明，署長來說明就可以了，好不好？"],["周副主任委員美伍：好，可以，沒問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：最後一點點時間，拜託召委讓我收個尾。密錄器的部分我也是要求，我看到手持V8是很奇怪的，現在隨便也有三軸穩定，對不對？海上晃來晃去，但是現在的技術它夠小，原則上也有穩定器，我實在搞不清楚，為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久。"],["周副主任委員美伍：這有一個政府的採購規定，但是我跟委員報告，我們在9月底以前，會把所有的3,100具都採購到案，而且在9月底以前，我們現在全部都調撥，所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶著密錄器，請委員放心。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，一樣，到時候一起報告，一起說明。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們會。"],["牛委員煦庭：密錄器的建置還有它的品質，不要最後品質不OK或什麼的。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們都有……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們不要再讓這個事情發生了。"],["周副主任委員美伍：瞭解。"],["牛委員煦庭：好不好？那就麻煩會後詳細說明，可以嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：不要等太久，好不好？好，謝謝，辛苦。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘）：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢。","下一位是黃建賓委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-6","speakers":["吳琪銘","王美惠","徐欣瑩","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","丁學忠","陳冠廷"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算有關海洋委員會及所屬預算凍結書面報告案計2案(一)海洋委員\n會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送該會決議(一)「海洋業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報\n告，請查照案、(二)海洋委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送海洋保育署決議 (一)\n「海洋保育業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案；二、邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬\n列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；三、審查海洋委員會函，為 113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送\n海巡署及所屬決議(一)「海巡業務」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案；四、「海洋保育法草\n案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案、(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋\n保育法草案」案","agenda_id":"1131101_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149779","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149779","tool":"pyannote","id":"149779-pyannote"},"job_id":"6J3lNpKblaCvaZjc","queued_at":"2024-06-02 04:55:22","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 04:56:43","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149779"},{"time":"2024-06-02 04:56:44","msg":"downloading 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\"我\", \"start\": 622.906, \"end\": 622.986, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 622.986, \"end\": 623.026, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 623.026, \"end\": 623.166, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"亭\", \"start\": 623.166, \"end\": 623.186, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,449 --> 00:00:10,781\n海洋委員會主委有請喔,謝謝。來,主委。女委員好。\n\n2\n00:00:11,309 --> 00:00:15,370\n主委早安我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情現在3月5號大陸的台辦副主任講說顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意他說反正否認事實謊話連篇反正又指控我們說設置各種障礙所以感覺不歡而散對不對\n\n3\n00:00:30,714 --> 00:00:59,138\n沒關係聽我講完嘛好不好然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕嘛等等那我們的陸委會也有講齁這個第一階段的協商告以段落齁這個可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商那針對這件事情的後續處遇本席有幾個問題要就教這個主委喔這個第一個我們要釐清一下啦就是這個談判的過程中齁這個中國大陸這邊的立場要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎\n\n4\n00:01:00,237 --> 00:01:08,945\n可以透露嗎?我們盡量信守不予透露的承諾盡量的信守不予透露的承諾聽起來蠻可怕的在談判的過程之中我們是絕對的都信守了但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中委員也知道\n\n5\n00:01:20,976 --> 00:01:36,161\n我們海巡的同仁在幾次巡達的過程中不得已就說了一些部分但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所以答詢的時候不再實現了因為現在狀況是這樣\n\n6\n00:01:38,502 --> 00:01:59,274\n像昨天總質詢的時候這個陳玉成委員就有問嘛就是說以他的了解這個大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審那陳建然院長講說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情那我們就也很好奇也在問啊那為什麼王定宇委員3月4號的時候知道說大陸要求我們要送審\n\n7\n00:02:00,874 --> 00:02:24,727\n這個要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情對不對要嘛如果可以透露你乾脆今天講一講好了到底有沒有這件事情你要不要釐清一下我想就我的了解就是說外界現在的諸多的描述不盡精確不盡精確對那我們很希望就是說大家對於諸多的訊息我們還是冷靜\n\n8\n00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:50,508\n所以海洋委員其實是基於談判要順利嘛,你的善的橋樑要紮得穩對不對?所以是不應該,大家不應該多去臆測嘛對不對?過程之中這麼長的時間,為什麼我們就是忍著哀罵,不願意講案情,因為講了案情,變成責任全部歸咎在對方。所以這就是本期要提醒你的,這就是本期要提醒你的,也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位啦。\n\n9\n00:02:51,108 --> 00:03:07,349\n如果談判的過程是不應該透露的因為我們都清楚嘛談判當然要保密嘛這些內容當然不應該為外人所盜那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點不管是藍的或者是綠的都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩露不應該有這個狀況嘛\n\n10\n00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:12,752\n這過程之中有很多的洩露是對我們很疑惑的資訊。我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性、對立性、要人道優先、制裁者、制裁我們人的。\n\n11\n00:03:36,464 --> 00:03:49,997\n我願意尊重海洋會理長也基於談判要順利我們不會追問細節但我要提醒你你內部的東西管控要做好這第一個那第二個現在我至少問一下就是說調查報告出爐之後可能會有第二輪談判對不對現在我這樣講還是說乾脆就不談了\n\n12\n00:03:53,260 --> 00:04:18,495\n我們目前有做各種努力那其中的一種努力是希望人道優先那人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中說實在是最具有高度共享的部分所以我們很希望這個部分的話我們會越快找到越快找到解決的途徑越好但是如果一定要把這些綁在一起就會拖\n\n13\n00:04:19,415 --> 00:04:44,225\n所謂等到現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來因為某一些事實要做釐清嘛對不對但是因為如果談的內容要全包那大概是什麼階段比如說你先聽我的問題嘛調查報告所謂出爐是指說做起訴或不起訴還是說判決還是什麼有沒有一個明確的交代就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判我說的就是說其實是可以人道優先我們抽出來先處理的\n\n14\n00:04:44,805 --> 00:05:10,849\n所以陸委會所說的是指說以目前目前對方的要求希望我們就是一體解決所以有沒有明確的答案所以你希望趕快談的意思人道優先的部分重新談判希望人道優先的部分重新談判我們其實海巡署一直在努力我們請署長來說明好不好沒關係我還有待會要問署長的話因為談判你就是主觀嘛沒有問題嘛那善的橋樑要繼續搭對不對\n\n15\n00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:38,996\n山的橋樑我們一直在持續你有多大把握可以繼續維持跟委員報告由於他不是單方面不是單方面那我們目前一直在努力那努力的成果也或者是努力的障礙我們也比較希望說不要公開的來議論或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室來跟委員說明\n\n16\n00:05:39,656 --> 00:05:56,548\n好你會不會要說明我接受啦那我們就到時候請署長來做詳細說明好不好好那再來我要問最近比較嚴重因為我為什麼那麼關心談判就是因為萬一散的橋樑這是你們講的搭不起來的時候這問題持續升溫其實對海巡弟兄來講是有非常大的壓力我舉幾個例子啊這個\n\n17\n00:05:57,829 --> 00:06:22,305\n像最近的這個中國級漁船直接闖入6海里是被認定標準那個領海的範圍啊但壓力是非常大的那大家當然就是說當然要依法驅離嘛對不對我想不管是主委也要或署長也要應該對這是這這這大家要共識嘛對我也支持你要執法嘛對不對三無漁船要執法這進到6海里了我們當然要執法可是看到的狀況是海巡署說啊因為風浪很大\n\n18\n00:06:22,765 --> 00:06:23,526\n本席對這樣的狀況我是非常非常擔心的\n\n19\n00:06:37,842 --> 00:07:02,699\n人家現在已經不只是金門的挖泥船那個1萬噸的直接親門踏戶啦對不對因為按照你們剛剛的說法這個應該也是理論上不被允許的嘛就算過去有協議但挖泥船不算嘛對不對這一個那另外一個是人家直接在台灣海峽的海域也一樣親門踏戶的進到6海里的範圍的時候那我們竟然拍不出相應的這個阻止的措施這個海域我們的執法作業流程到底該怎麼應應這樣的事情\n\n20\n00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:30,542\n各位委員報告這個涉及每一次的調度那這個部分我請署長來回答或者是分署長來回答快點我們今天時間比較有限好不好節奏快點委員好很高興有這個時間事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中那確實因為惡劣的海象在隔天的時候其中兩艘在大潭脫鎖離開其第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦來執行棲離事實是這樣子以上\n\n21\n00:07:33,484 --> 00:08:01,952\n所以有執行驅離喔為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣說沒有辦法去這不是很奇怪嗎隔天他往北航行到大唐外航的時候是由桃園艦攔下驅離的一艘其中兩艘脫手離開了我現在是很擔心這個狀況啦因為這個民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心但是我懷疑對等尊嚴有沒有能力因為你的設備你的條件有沒有辦法\n\n22\n00:08:03,893 --> 00:08:30,572\n長時間的強力執法這個是大家會擔心的事嘛既然要說得到就要做得到好不好謝謝委員這樣的關心我想我們在勤務調度上面一定會做最適當的對我現在怕因為看起來因為剛剛委員的擔心我特別說明剛剛分署長已經因為他是業中部地區的業管的分署長他對當天的情形非常了解所以這三艘進入到六海裡的這個漁船我們是從開始進入就開始掌握\n\n23\n00:08:31,112 --> 00:08:57,405\n那我們會視當時的海上的狀況跟我們前進兵力的部署我現在就擔心部署跟硬體嘛因為萬一我們都只有百噸的續航體沒有辦法實施驅離的時候這件事情在國際上的解釋是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力去處理這件事情是不是會影響整體的這個布局對不對這是危險的那我們後續我們的造船的計畫都有在這邊持續在加入我們的行列\n\n24\n00:08:57,945 --> 00:09:19,065\n所以這方面我們還會持續如果我要提醒一下署長3月4號就是我們上一次質詢的時候我就有要求說越界的儲遇方式我希望有書面資料但截至目前為止我是沒有收到的我們應該是應該是還沒有交出來好不好應該應該先送回去我現在就加碼第一個是越界的儲遇方式第二個是相關你的硬體設施你要怎麼樣來做補強你的時程是什麼\n\n25\n00:09:19,825 --> 00:09:38,190\n有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情一方面維持善的橋樑二方面守住對等注意你打算怎麼處理這件事情我想社會大眾是關心的所以請署長會後既然都說要來說明署長來說明就可以了那最後一點點時間拜託趙委員我再收個尾密錄器的部分我也是要求\n\n26\n00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:56,297\n我們看到手持V8是很奇怪的現在隨便也有三軸穩定對不對你海上晃來晃去但是現在的技術它夠小然後原則上也有穩定器我實在搞不清楚為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久呢所以我們這有一個政府的採購規定但是我跟委員報告我們在9月底以前\n\n27\n00:09:57,157 --> 00:10:23,186\n會把這個所有的3100句都採購到案而且在9月底以前我們現在全部都調播所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶的密錄器這請委員放心一樣嘛到時候一起報告一起說明啦就是密錄器的這個建制還有它的品質啊有沒有擔心最後這個品質不OK或什麼的我們不要再讓這個事情發生了好不好那就麻煩會後詳細說明可以嗎這個不要再等太久好不好好謝謝辛苦好謝謝我們牛心亭\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t10781\t海洋委員會主委有請喔,謝謝。來,主委。女委員好。\n11309\t15370\t主委早安我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情現在3月5號大陸的台辦副主任講說顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意他說反正否認事實謊話連篇反正又指控我們說設置各種障礙所以感覺不歡而散 對不對\n30714\t59138\t沒關係聽我講完嘛好不好然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕嘛等等那我們的陸委會也有講齁這個第一階段的協商告以段落齁這個可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商那針對這件事情的後續處遇本席有幾個問題要就教這個主委喔這個第一個我們要釐清一下啦就是這個談判的過程中齁這個中國大陸這邊的立場要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎\n60237\t68945\t可以透露嗎?我們盡量信守不予透露的承諾盡量的信守不予透露的承諾聽起來蠻可怕的在談判的過程之中我們是絕對的都信守了但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中委員也知道\n80976\t96161\t我們海巡的同仁在幾次巡達的過程中不得已就說了一些部分但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所以答詢的時候不再實現了因為現在狀況是這樣\n98502\t119274\t像昨天總質詢的時候這個陳玉成委員就有問嘛就是說以他的了解這個大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審那陳建然院長講說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情那我們就也很好奇也在問啊那為什麼王定宇委員3月4號的時候知道說大陸要求我們要送審\n120874\t144727\t這個要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情對不對要嘛如果可以透露你乾脆今天講一講好了到底有沒有這件事情你要不要釐清一下我想就我的了解就是說外界現在的諸多的描述不盡精確不盡精確對那我們很希望就是說大家對於諸多的訊息我們還是冷靜\n148229\t170508\t所以海洋委員其實是基於談判要順利嘛,你的善的橋樑要紮得穩對不對?所以是不應該,大家不應該多去臆測嘛對不對?過程之中這麼長的時間,為什麼我們就是忍著哀罵,不願意講案情,因為講了案情,變成責任全部歸咎在對方。所以這就是本期要提醒你的,這就是本期要提醒你的,也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位啦。\n171108\t187349\t如果談判的過程是不應該透露的因為我們都清楚嘛談判當然要保密嘛這些內容當然不應該為外人所盜那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點不管是藍的或者是綠的都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩露不應該有這個狀況嘛\n189210\t192752\t這過程之中有很多的洩露是對我們很疑惑的資訊。我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性、對立性、要人道優先、制裁者、制裁我們人的。\n216464\t229997\t我願意尊重海洋會理長也基於談判要順利我們不會追問細節但我要提醒你你內部的東西管控要做好這第一個那第二個現在我至少問一下就是說調查報告出爐之後可能會有第二輪談判對不對現在我這樣講還是說乾脆就不談了\n233260\t258495\t我們目前有做各種努力那其中的一種努力是希望人道優先那人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中說實在是最具有高度共享的部分所以我們很希望這個部分的話我們會越快找到越快找到解決的途徑越好但是如果一定要把這些綁在一起就會拖\n259415\t284225\t所謂等到現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來因為某一些事實要做釐清嘛對不對但是因為如果談的內容要全包那大概是什麼階段比如說你先聽我的問題嘛調查報告所謂出爐是指說做起訴或不起訴還是說判決還是什麼有沒有一個明確的交代就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判我說的就是說其實是可以人道優先我們抽出來先處理的\n284805\t310849\t所以陸委會所說的是指說以目前目前對方的要求希望我們就是一體解決所以有沒有明確的答案所以你希望趕快談的意思人道優先的部分重新談判希望人道優先的部分重新談判我們其實海巡署一直在努力我們請署長來說明好不好沒關係我還有待會要問署長的話因為談判你就是主觀嘛沒有問題嘛那善的橋樑要繼續搭對不對\n315090\t338996\t山的橋樑我們一直在持續你有多大把握可以繼續維持跟委員報告由於他不是單方面不是單方面那我們目前一直在努力那努力的成果也或者是努力的障礙我們也比較希望說不要公開的來議論或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室來跟委員說明\n339656\t356548\t好你會不會要說明我接受啦那我們就到時候請署長來做詳細說明好不好好那再來我要問最近比較嚴重因為我為什麼那麼關心談判就是因為萬一散的橋樑這是你們講的搭不起來的時候這問題持續升溫其實對海巡弟兄來講是有非常大的壓力我舉幾個例子啊這個\n357829\t382305\t像最近的這個中國級漁船直接闖入6海里是被認定標準那個領海的範圍啊但壓力是非常大的那大家當然就是說當然要依法驅離嘛對不對我想不管是主委也要或署長也要應該對這是這這這大家要共識嘛對我也支持你要執法嘛對不對三無漁船要執法這進到6海里了我們當然要執法可是看到的狀況是海巡署說啊因為風浪很大\n382765\t383526\t本席對這樣的狀況我是非常非常擔心的\n397842\t422699\t人家現在已經不只是金門的挖泥船那個1萬噸的直接親門踏戶啦對不對因為按照你們剛剛的說法這個應該也是理論上不被允許的嘛就算過去有協議但挖泥船不算嘛對不對這一個那另外一個是人家直接在台灣海峽的海域也一樣親門踏戶的進到6海里的範圍的時候那我們竟然拍不出相應的這個阻止的措施這個海域我們的執法作業流程到底該怎麼應應這樣的事情\n423880\t450542\t各位委員報告這個涉及每一次的調度那這個部分我請署長來回答或者是分署長來回答快點我們今天時間比較有限好不好節奏快點委員好很高興有這個時間事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中那確實因為惡劣的海象在隔天的時候其中兩艘在大潭脫鎖離開其第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦來執行棲離事實是這樣子以上\n453484\t481952\t所以有執行驅離喔為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣說沒有辦法去這不是很奇怪嗎隔天他往北航行到大唐外航的時候是由桃園艦攔下驅離的一艘其中兩艘脫手離開了我現在是很擔心這個狀況啦因為這個民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心但是我懷疑對等尊嚴有沒有能力因為你的設備你的條件有沒有辦法\n483893\t510572\t長時間的強力執法這個是大家會擔心的事嘛既然要說得到就要做得到好不好謝謝委員這樣的關心我想我們在勤務調度上面一定會做最適當的對我現在怕因為看起來因為剛剛委員的擔心我特別說明剛剛分署長已經因為他是業中部地區的業管的分署長他對當天的情形非常了解所以這三艘進入到六海裡的這個漁船我們是從開始進入就開始掌握\n511112\t537405\t那我們會視當時的海上的狀況跟我們前進兵力的部署我現在就擔心部署跟硬體嘛因為萬一我們都只有百噸的續航體沒有辦法實施驅離的時候這件事情在國際上的解釋是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力去處理這件事情是不是會影響整體的這個布局對不對這是危險的那我們後續我們的造船的計畫都有在這邊持續在加入我們的行列\n537945\t559065\t所以這方面我們還會持續如果我要提醒一下署長3月4號就是我們上一次質詢的時候我就有要求說越界的儲遇方式我希望有書面資料但截至目前為止我是沒有收到的我們應該是應該是還沒有交出來好不好應該應該先送回去我現在就加碼第一個是越界的儲遇方式第二個是相關你的硬體設施你要怎麼樣來做補強你的時程是什麼\n559825\t578190\t有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情一方面維持善的橋樑二方面守住對等注意你打算怎麼處理這件事情我想社會大眾是關心的所以請署長會後既然都說要來說明署長來說明就可以了那最後一點點時間拜託趙委員我再收個尾密錄器的部分我也是要求\n578850\t596297\t我們看到手持V8是很奇怪的現在隨便也有三軸穩定對不對你海上晃來晃去但是現在的技術它夠小然後原則上也有穩定器我實在搞不清楚為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久呢所以我們這有一個政府的採購規定但是我跟委員報告我們在9月底以前\n597157\t623186\t會把這個所有的3100句都採購到案而且在9月底以前我們現在全部都調播所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶的密錄器這請委員放心一樣嘛到時候一起報告一起說明啦就是密錄器的這個建制還有它的品質啊有沒有擔心最後這個品質不OK或什麼的我們不要再讓這個事情發生了好不好那就麻煩會後詳細說明可以嗎這個不要再等太久好不好好謝謝辛苦好謝謝我們牛心亭\n","txt":"海洋委員會主委有請喔,謝謝。來,主委。女委員好。\n主委早安我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情現在3月5號大陸的台辦副主任講說顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意他說反正否認事實謊話連篇反正又指控我們說設置各種障礙所以感覺不歡而散 對不對\n沒關係聽我講完嘛好不好然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕嘛等等那我們的陸委會也有講齁這個第一階段的協商告以段落齁這個可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商那針對這件事情的後續處遇本席有幾個問題要就教這個主委喔這個第一個我們要釐清一下啦就是這個談判的過程中齁這個中國大陸這邊的立場要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎\n可以透露嗎?我們盡量信守不予透露的承諾盡量的信守不予透露的承諾聽起來蠻可怕的在談判的過程之中我們是絕對的都信守了但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中委員也知道\n我們海巡的同仁在幾次巡達的過程中不得已就說了一些部分但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所以答詢的時候不再實現了因為現在狀況是這樣\n像昨天總質詢的時候這個陳玉成委員就有問嘛就是說以他的了解這個大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審那陳建然院長講說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情那我們就也很好奇也在問啊那為什麼王定宇委員3月4號的時候知道說大陸要求我們要送審\n這個要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情對不對要嘛如果可以透露你乾脆今天講一講好了到底有沒有這件事情你要不要釐清一下我想就我的了解就是說外界現在的諸多的描述不盡精確不盡精確對那我們很希望就是說大家對於諸多的訊息我們還是冷靜\n所以海洋委員其實是基於談判要順利嘛,你的善的橋樑要紮得穩對不對?所以是不應該,大家不應該多去臆測嘛對不對?過程之中這麼長的時間,為什麼我們就是忍著哀罵,不願意講案情,因為講了案情,變成責任全部歸咎在對方。所以這就是本期要提醒你的,這就是本期要提醒你的,也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位啦。\n如果談判的過程是不應該透露的因為我們都清楚嘛談判當然要保密嘛這些內容當然不應該為外人所盜那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點不管是藍的或者是綠的都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩露不應該有這個狀況嘛\n這過程之中有很多的洩露是對我們很疑惑的資訊。我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性、對立性、要人道優先、制裁者、制裁我們人的。\n我願意尊重海洋會理長也基於談判要順利我們不會追問細節但我要提醒你你內部的東西管控要做好這第一個那第二個現在我至少問一下就是說調查報告出爐之後可能會有第二輪談判對不對現在我這樣講還是說乾脆就不談了\n我們目前有做各種努力那其中的一種努力是希望人道優先那人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中說實在是最具有高度共享的部分所以我們很希望這個部分的話我們會越快找到越快找到解決的途徑越好但是如果一定要把這些綁在一起就會拖\n所謂等到現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來因為某一些事實要做釐清嘛對不對但是因為如果談的內容要全包那大概是什麼階段比如說你先聽我的問題嘛調查報告所謂出爐是指說做起訴或不起訴還是說判決還是什麼有沒有一個明確的交代就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判我說的就是說其實是可以人道優先我們抽出來先處理的\n所以陸委會所說的是指說以目前目前對方的要求希望我們就是一體解決所以有沒有明確的答案所以你希望趕快談的意思人道優先的部分重新談判希望人道優先的部分重新談判我們其實海巡署一直在努力我們請署長來說明好不好沒關係我還有待會要問署長的話因為談判你就是主觀嘛沒有問題嘛那善的橋樑要繼續搭對不對\n山的橋樑我們一直在持續你有多大把握可以繼續維持跟委員報告由於他不是單方面不是單方面那我們目前一直在努力那努力的成果也或者是努力的障礙我們也比較希望說不要公開的來議論或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室來跟委員說明\n好你會不會要說明我接受啦那我們就到時候請署長來做詳細說明好不好好那再來我要問最近比較嚴重因為我為什麼那麼關心談判就是因為萬一散的橋樑這是你們講的搭不起來的時候這問題持續升溫其實對海巡弟兄來講是有非常大的壓力我舉幾個例子啊這個\n像最近的這個中國級漁船直接闖入6海里是被認定標準那個領海的範圍啊但壓力是非常大的那大家當然就是說當然要依法驅離嘛對不對我想不管是主委也要或署長也要應該對這是這這這大家要共識嘛對我也支持你要執法嘛對不對三無漁船要執法這進到6海里了我們當然要執法可是看到的狀況是海巡署說啊因為風浪很大\n本席對這樣的狀況我是非常非常擔心的\n人家現在已經不只是金門的挖泥船那個1萬噸的直接親門踏戶啦對不對因為按照你們剛剛的說法這個應該也是理論上不被允許的嘛就算過去有協議但挖泥船不算嘛對不對這一個那另外一個是人家直接在台灣海峽的海域也一樣親門踏戶的進到6海里的範圍的時候那我們竟然拍不出相應的這個阻止的措施這個海域我們的執法作業流程到底該怎麼應應這樣的事情\n各位委員報告這個涉及每一次的調度那這個部分我請署長來回答或者是分署長來回答快點我們今天時間比較有限好不好節奏快點委員好很高興有這個時間事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中那確實因為惡劣的海象在隔天的時候其中兩艘在大潭脫鎖離開其第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦來執行棲離事實是這樣子以上\n所以有執行驅離喔為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣說沒有辦法去這不是很奇怪嗎隔天他往北航行到大唐外航的時候是由桃園艦攔下驅離的一艘其中兩艘脫手離開了我現在是很擔心這個狀況啦因為這個民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心但是我懷疑對等尊嚴有沒有能力因為你的設備你的條件有沒有辦法\n長時間的強力執法這個是大家會擔心的事嘛既然要說得到就要做得到好不好謝謝委員這樣的關心我想我們在勤務調度上面一定會做最適當的對我現在怕因為看起來因為剛剛委員的擔心我特別說明剛剛分署長已經因為他是業中部地區的業管的分署長他對當天的情形非常了解所以這三艘進入到六海裡的這個漁船我們是從開始進入就開始掌握\n那我們會視當時的海上的狀況跟我們前進兵力的部署我現在就擔心部署跟硬體嘛因為萬一我們都只有百噸的續航體沒有辦法實施驅離的時候這件事情在國際上的解釋是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力去處理這件事情是不是會影響整體的這個布局對不對這是危險的那我們後續我們的造船的計畫都有在這邊持續在加入我們的行列\n所以這方面我們還會持續如果我要提醒一下署長3月4號就是我們上一次質詢的時候我就有要求說越界的儲遇方式我希望有書面資料但截至目前為止我是沒有收到的我們應該是應該是還沒有交出來好不好應該應該先送回去我現在就加碼第一個是越界的儲遇方式第二個是相關你的硬體設施你要怎麼樣來做補強你的時程是什麼\n有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情一方面維持善的橋樑二方面守住對等注意你打算怎麼處理這件事情我想社會大眾是關心的所以請署長會後既然都說要來說明署長來說明就可以了那最後一點點時間拜託趙委員我再收個尾密錄器的部分我也是要求\n我們看到手持V8是很奇怪的現在隨便也有三軸穩定對不對你海上晃來晃去但是現在的技術它夠小然後原則上也有穩定器我實在搞不清楚為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久呢所以我們這有一個政府的採購規定但是我跟委員報告我們在9月底以前\n會把這個所有的3100句都採購到案而且在9月底以前我們現在全部都調播所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶的密錄器這請委員放心一樣嘛到時候一起報告一起說明啦就是密錄器的這個建制還有它的品質啊有沒有擔心最後這個品質不OK或什麼的我們不要再讓這個事情發生了好不好那就麻煩會後詳細說明可以嗎這個不要再等太久好不好好謝謝辛苦好謝謝我們牛心亭\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:10.781\n海洋委員會主委有請喔,謝謝。來,主委。女委員好。\n\n00:11.309 --> 00:15.370\n主委早安我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情現在3月5號大陸的台辦副主任講說顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意他說反正否認事實謊話連篇反正又指控我們說設置各種障礙所以感覺不歡而散對不對\n\n00:30.714 --> 00:59.138\n沒關係聽我講完嘛好不好然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕嘛等等那我們的陸委會也有講齁這個第一階段的協商告以段落齁這個可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商那針對這件事情的後續處遇本席有幾個問題要就教這個主委喔這個第一個我們要釐清一下啦就是這個談判的過程中齁這個中國大陸這邊的立場要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎\n\n01:00.237 --> 01:08.945\n可以透露嗎?我們盡量信守不予透露的承諾盡量的信守不予透露的承諾聽起來蠻可怕的在談判的過程之中我們是絕對的都信守了但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中委員也知道\n\n01:20.976 --> 01:36.161\n我們海巡的同仁在幾次巡達的過程中不得已就說了一些部分但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所以答詢的時候不再實現了因為現在狀況是這樣\n\n01:38.502 --> 01:59.274\n像昨天總質詢的時候這個陳玉成委員就有問嘛就是說以他的了解這個大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審那陳建然院長講說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情那我們就也很好奇也在問啊那為什麼王定宇委員3月4號的時候知道說大陸要求我們要送審\n\n02:00.874 --> 02:24.727\n這個要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情對不對要嘛如果可以透露你乾脆今天講一講好了到底有沒有這件事情你要不要釐清一下我想就我的了解就是說外界現在的諸多的描述不盡精確不盡精確對那我們很希望就是說大家對於諸多的訊息我們還是冷靜\n\n02:28.229 --> 02:50.508\n所以海洋委員其實是基於談判要順利嘛,你的善的橋樑要紮得穩對不對?所以是不應該,大家不應該多去臆測嘛對不對?過程之中這麼長的時間,為什麼我們就是忍著哀罵,不願意講案情,因為講了案情,變成責任全部歸咎在對方。所以這就是本期要提醒你的,這就是本期要提醒你的,也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位啦。\n\n02:51.108 --> 03:07.349\n如果談判的過程是不應該透露的因為我們都清楚嘛談判當然要保密嘛這些內容當然不應該為外人所盜那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點不管是藍的或者是綠的都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩露不應該有這個狀況嘛\n\n03:09.210 --> 03:12.752\n這過程之中有很多的洩露是對我們很疑惑的資訊。我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性、對立性、要人道優先、制裁者、制裁我們人的。\n\n03:36.464 --> 03:49.997\n我願意尊重海洋會理長也基於談判要順利我們不會追問細節但我要提醒你你內部的東西管控要做好這第一個那第二個現在我至少問一下就是說調查報告出爐之後可能會有第二輪談判對不對現在我這樣講還是說乾脆就不談了\n\n03:53.260 --> 04:18.495\n我們目前有做各種努力那其中的一種努力是希望人道優先那人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中說實在是最具有高度共享的部分所以我們很希望這個部分的話我們會越快找到越快找到解決的途徑越好但是如果一定要把這些綁在一起就會拖\n\n04:19.415 --> 04:44.225\n所謂等到現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來因為某一些事實要做釐清嘛對不對但是因為如果談的內容要全包那大概是什麼階段比如說你先聽我的問題嘛調查報告所謂出爐是指說做起訴或不起訴還是說判決還是什麼有沒有一個明確的交代就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判我說的就是說其實是可以人道優先我們抽出來先處理的\n\n04:44.805 --> 05:10.849\n所以陸委會所說的是指說以目前目前對方的要求希望我們就是一體解決所以有沒有明確的答案所以你希望趕快談的意思人道優先的部分重新談判希望人道優先的部分重新談判我們其實海巡署一直在努力我們請署長來說明好不好沒關係我還有待會要問署長的話因為談判你就是主觀嘛沒有問題嘛那善的橋樑要繼續搭對不對\n\n05:15.090 --> 05:38.996\n山的橋樑我們一直在持續你有多大把握可以繼續維持跟委員報告由於他不是單方面不是單方面那我們目前一直在努力那努力的成果也或者是努力的障礙我們也比較希望說不要公開的來議論或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室來跟委員說明\n\n05:39.656 --> 05:56.548\n好你會不會要說明我接受啦那我們就到時候請署長來做詳細說明好不好好那再來我要問最近比較嚴重因為我為什麼那麼關心談判就是因為萬一散的橋樑這是你們講的搭不起來的時候這問題持續升溫其實對海巡弟兄來講是有非常大的壓力我舉幾個例子啊這個\n\n05:57.829 --> 06:22.305\n像最近的這個中國級漁船直接闖入6海里是被認定標準那個領海的範圍啊但壓力是非常大的那大家當然就是說當然要依法驅離嘛對不對我想不管是主委也要或署長也要應該對這是這這這大家要共識嘛對我也支持你要執法嘛對不對三無漁船要執法這進到6海里了我們當然要執法可是看到的狀況是海巡署說啊因為風浪很大\n\n06:22.765 --> 06:23.526\n本席對這樣的狀況我是非常非常擔心的\n\n06:37.842 --> 07:02.699\n人家現在已經不只是金門的挖泥船那個1萬噸的直接親門踏戶啦對不對因為按照你們剛剛的說法這個應該也是理論上不被允許的嘛就算過去有協議但挖泥船不算嘛對不對這一個那另外一個是人家直接在台灣海峽的海域也一樣親門踏戶的進到6海里的範圍的時候那我們竟然拍不出相應的這個阻止的措施這個海域我們的執法作業流程到底該怎麼應應這樣的事情\n\n07:03.880 --> 07:30.542\n各位委員報告這個涉及每一次的調度那這個部分我請署長來回答或者是分署長來回答快點我們今天時間比較有限好不好節奏快點委員好很高興有這個時間事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中那確實因為惡劣的海象在隔天的時候其中兩艘在大潭脫鎖離開其第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦來執行棲離事實是這樣子以上\n\n07:33.484 --> 08:01.952\n所以有執行驅離喔為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣說沒有辦法去這不是很奇怪嗎隔天他往北航行到大唐外航的時候是由桃園艦攔下驅離的一艘其中兩艘脫手離開了我現在是很擔心這個狀況啦因為這個民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心但是我懷疑對等尊嚴有沒有能力因為你的設備你的條件有沒有辦法\n\n08:03.893 --> 08:30.572\n長時間的強力執法這個是大家會擔心的事嘛既然要說得到就要做得到好不好謝謝委員這樣的關心我想我們在勤務調度上面一定會做最適當的對我現在怕因為看起來因為剛剛委員的擔心我特別說明剛剛分署長已經因為他是業中部地區的業管的分署長他對當天的情形非常了解所以這三艘進入到六海裡的這個漁船我們是從開始進入就開始掌握\n\n08:31.112 --> 08:57.405\n那我們會視當時的海上的狀況跟我們前進兵力的部署我現在就擔心部署跟硬體嘛因為萬一我們都只有百噸的續航體沒有辦法實施驅離的時候這件事情在國際上的解釋是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力去處理這件事情是不是會影響整體的這個布局對不對這是危險的那我們後續我們的造船的計畫都有在這邊持續在加入我們的行列\n\n08:57.945 --> 09:19.065\n所以這方面我們還會持續如果我要提醒一下署長3月4號就是我們上一次質詢的時候我就有要求說越界的儲遇方式我希望有書面資料但截至目前為止我是沒有收到的我們應該是應該是還沒有交出來好不好應該應該先送回去我現在就加碼第一個是越界的儲遇方式第二個是相關你的硬體設施你要怎麼樣來做補強你的時程是什麼\n\n09:19.825 --> 09:38.190\n有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情一方面維持善的橋樑二方面守住對等注意你打算怎麼處理這件事情我想社會大眾是關心的所以請署長會後既然都說要來說明署長來說明就可以了那最後一點點時間拜託趙委員我再收個尾密錄器的部分我也是要求\n\n09:38.850 --> 09:56.297\n我們看到手持V8是很奇怪的現在隨便也有三軸穩定對不對你海上晃來晃去但是現在的技術它夠小然後原則上也有穩定器我實在搞不清楚為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久呢所以我們這有一個政府的採購規定但是我跟委員報告我們在9月底以前\n\n09:57.157 --> 10:23.186\n會把這個所有的3100句都採購到案而且在9月底以前我們現在全部都調播所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶的密錄器這請委員放心一樣嘛到時候一起報告一起說明啦就是密錄器的這個建制還有它的品質啊有沒有擔心最後這個品質不OK或什麼的我們不要再讓這個事情發生了好不好那就麻煩會後詳細說明可以嗎這個不要再等太久好不好好謝謝辛苦好謝謝我們牛心亭\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":10.781,"text":"海洋委員會主委有請喔,謝謝。來,主委。女委員好。"},{"start":11.309,"end":15.37,"text":"主委早安我們繼續追蹤一下金門撞船的事情現在3月5號大陸的台辦副主任講說顯然對於我們談判的結果不是特別滿意他說反正否認事實謊話連篇反正又指控我們說設置各種障礙所以感覺不歡而散 對不對"},{"start":30.714,"end":59.138,"text":"沒關係聽我講完嘛好不好然後好像我們的慰問金也被拒絕嘛等等那我們的陸委會也有講齁這個第一階段的協商告以段落齁這個可能要等檢察官調查報告出爐之後才會進行下一階段的協商那針對這件事情的後續處遇本席有幾個問題要就教這個主委喔這個第一個我們要釐清一下啦就是這個談判的過程中齁這個中國大陸這邊的立場要求跟期待是可以說的事情嗎"},{"start":60.237,"end":68.945,"text":"可以透露嗎?我們盡量信守不予透露的承諾盡量的信守不予透露的承諾聽起來蠻可怕的在談判的過程之中我們是絕對的都信守了但是在上個禮拜的專案報告當中委員也知道"},{"start":80.976,"end":96.161,"text":"我們海巡的同仁在幾次巡達的過程中不得已就說了一些部分但是我們最主要的用心是我們很希望還是要保護所以答詢的時候不再實現了因為現在狀況是這樣"},{"start":98.502,"end":119.274,"text":"像昨天總質詢的時候這個陳玉成委員就有問嘛就是說以他的了解這個大陸方面沒有要求我們把人犯送到大陸去受審那陳建然院長講說你怎麼會知道這個理應不該被透露的事情那我們就也很好奇也在問啊那為什麼王定宇委員3月4號的時候知道說大陸要求我們要送審"},{"start":120.874,"end":144.727,"text":"這個要嘛我們的政府機關就講這個是不能透露的事情對不對要嘛如果可以透露你乾脆今天講一講好了到底有沒有這件事情你要不要釐清一下我想就我的了解就是說外界現在的諸多的描述不盡精確不盡精確對那我們很希望就是說大家對於諸多的訊息我們還是冷靜"},{"start":148.229,"end":170.508,"text":"所以海洋委員其實是基於談判要順利嘛,你的善的橋樑要紮得穩對不對?所以是不應該,大家不應該多去臆測嘛對不對?過程之中這麼長的時間,為什麼我們就是忍著哀罵,不願意講案情,因為講了案情,變成責任全部歸咎在對方。所以這就是本期要提醒你的,這就是本期要提醒你的,也是要嚴肅提醒政府單位啦。"},{"start":171.108,"end":187.349,"text":"如果談判的過程是不應該透露的因為我們都清楚嘛談判當然要保密嘛這些內容當然不應該為外人所盜那是不是你政府在保密的部分要做得好一點不管是藍的或者是綠的都不應該有什麼奇怪的知情洩露不應該有這個狀況嘛"},{"start":189.21,"end":192.752,"text":"這過程之中有很多的洩露是對我們很疑惑的資訊。我們很希望這件事情要降低它的政治性、對立性、要人道優先、制裁者、制裁我們人的。"},{"start":216.464,"end":229.997,"text":"我願意尊重海洋會理長也基於談判要順利我們不會追問細節但我要提醒你你內部的東西管控要做好這第一個那第二個現在我至少問一下就是說調查報告出爐之後可能會有第二輪談判對不對現在我這樣講還是說乾脆就不談了"},{"start":233.26,"end":258.495,"text":"我們目前有做各種努力那其中的一種努力是希望人道優先那人道的課題也是在溝通的過程當中說實在是最具有高度共享的部分所以我們很希望這個部分的話我們會越快找到越快找到解決的途徑越好但是如果一定要把這些綁在一起就會拖"},{"start":259.415,"end":284.225,"text":"所謂等到現在是等到檢調有一個調查的結果出來因為某一些事實要做釐清嘛對不對但是因為如果談的內容要全包那大概是什麼階段比如說你先聽我的問題嘛調查報告所謂出爐是指說做起訴或不起訴還是說判決還是什麼有沒有一個明確的交代就什麼時候會有下一輪的談判我說的就是說其實是可以人道優先我們抽出來先處理的"},{"start":284.805,"end":310.849,"text":"所以陸委會所說的是指說以目前目前對方的要求希望我們就是一體解決所以有沒有明確的答案所以你希望趕快談的意思人道優先的部分重新談判希望人道優先的部分重新談判我們其實海巡署一直在努力我們請署長來說明好不好沒關係我還有待會要問署長的話因為談判你就是主觀嘛沒有問題嘛那善的橋樑要繼續搭對不對"},{"start":315.09,"end":338.996,"text":"山的橋樑我們一直在持續你有多大把握可以繼續維持跟委員報告由於他不是單方面不是單方面那我們目前一直在努力那努力的成果也或者是努力的障礙我們也比較希望說不要公開的來議論或許我們請署長到委員的辦公室來跟委員說明"},{"start":339.656,"end":356.548,"text":"好你會不會要說明我接受啦那我們就到時候請署長來做詳細說明好不好好那再來我要問最近比較嚴重因為我為什麼那麼關心談判就是因為萬一散的橋樑這是你們講的搭不起來的時候這問題持續升溫其實對海巡弟兄來講是有非常大的壓力我舉幾個例子啊這個"},{"start":357.829,"end":382.305,"text":"像最近的這個中國級漁船直接闖入6海里是被認定標準那個領海的範圍啊但壓力是非常大的那大家當然就是說當然要依法驅離嘛對不對我想不管是主委也要或署長也要應該對這是這這這大家要共識嘛對我也支持你要執法嘛對不對三無漁船要執法這進到6海里了我們當然要執法可是看到的狀況是海巡署說啊因為風浪很大"},{"start":382.765,"end":383.526,"text":"本席對這樣的狀況我是非常非常擔心的"},{"start":397.842,"end":422.699,"text":"人家現在已經不只是金門的挖泥船那個1萬噸的直接親門踏戶啦對不對因為按照你們剛剛的說法這個應該也是理論上不被允許的嘛就算過去有協議但挖泥船不算嘛對不對這一個那另外一個是人家直接在台灣海峽的海域也一樣親門踏戶的進到6海里的範圍的時候那我們竟然拍不出相應的這個阻止的措施這個海域我們的執法作業流程到底該怎麼應應這樣的事情"},{"start":423.88,"end":450.542,"text":"各位委員報告這個涉及每一次的調度那這個部分我請署長來回答或者是分署長來回答快點我們今天時間比較有限好不好節奏快點委員好很高興有這個時間事實上這個案子從頭到尾都在我們雷達的監控當中那確實因為惡劣的海象在隔天的時候其中兩艘在大潭脫鎖離開其第三艘是由我們宜蘭艦來執行棲離事實是這樣子以上"},{"start":453.484,"end":481.952,"text":"所以有執行驅離喔為什麼你們當初講的版本不一樣說沒有辦法去這不是很奇怪嗎隔天他往北航行到大唐外航的時候是由桃園艦攔下驅離的一艘其中兩艘脫手離開了我現在是很擔心這個狀況啦因為這個民進黨政府主張要對等尊嚴我不懷疑對等尊嚴的決心但是我懷疑對等尊嚴有沒有能力因為你的設備你的條件有沒有辦法"},{"start":483.893,"end":510.572,"text":"長時間的強力執法這個是大家會擔心的事嘛既然要說得到就要做得到好不好謝謝委員這樣的關心我想我們在勤務調度上面一定會做最適當的對我現在怕因為看起來因為剛剛委員的擔心我特別說明剛剛分署長已經因為他是業中部地區的業管的分署長他對當天的情形非常了解所以這三艘進入到六海裡的這個漁船我們是從開始進入就開始掌握"},{"start":511.112,"end":537.405,"text":"那我們會視當時的海上的狀況跟我們前進兵力的部署我現在就擔心部署跟硬體嘛因為萬一我們都只有百噸的續航體沒有辦法實施驅離的時候這件事情在國際上的解釋是不是會認為我們沒有辦法或是我們沒有能力去處理這件事情是不是會影響整體的這個布局對不對這是危險的那我們後續我們的造船的計畫都有在這邊持續在加入我們的行列"},{"start":537.945,"end":559.065,"text":"所以這方面我們還會持續如果我要提醒一下署長3月4號就是我們上一次質詢的時候我就有要求說越界的儲遇方式我希望有書面資料但截至目前為止我是沒有收到的我們應該是應該是還沒有交出來好不好應該應該先送回去我現在就加碼第一個是越界的儲遇方式第二個是相關你的硬體設施你要怎麼樣來做補強你的時程是什麼"},{"start":559.825,"end":578.19,"text":"有多大的把握能夠阻止這樣的事情一方面維持善的橋樑二方面守住對等注意你打算怎麼處理這件事情我想社會大眾是關心的所以請署長會後既然都說要來說明署長來說明就可以了那最後一點點時間拜託趙委員我再收個尾密錄器的部分我也是要求"},{"start":578.85,"end":596.297,"text":"我們看到手持V8是很奇怪的現在隨便也有三軸穩定對不對你海上晃來晃去但是現在的技術它夠小然後原則上也有穩定器我實在搞不清楚為什麼一個採購可以等這麼久呢所以我們這有一個政府的採購規定但是我跟委員報告我們在9月底以前"},{"start":597.157,"end":623.186,"text":"會把這個所有的3100句都採購到案而且在9月底以前我們現在全部都調播所以各一線單位現在只要出勤都有帶的密錄器這請委員放心一樣嘛到時候一起報告一起說明啦就是密錄器的這個建制還有它的品質啊有沒有擔心最後這個品質不OK或什麼的我們不要再讓這個事情發生了好不好那就麻煩會後詳細說明可以嗎這個不要再等太久好不好好謝謝辛苦好謝謝我們牛心亭"}]}}}}