{"id":149794,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149794","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903e0f87feffade2d5014b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a6f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:08:44 - 11:26:45","影片長度":"00:18:01","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":1081,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:26:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:08:44+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":765,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時8分）謝謝主席。請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長好。針對消除對婦女一切形式歧視公約（CEDAW），我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次，對不對？然後這4年裡面，我們最近的一次報告是111年的第四次國家報告，會議結論在性平意見上有關的當中，有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡，你知道它關切的重點是什麼嗎？"],["許部長銘春：就是讓……"],["林委員淑芬：消除對婦女所有一切的歧視、CEDAW公約，我們的國家報告，跟你們的業務有關的是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施。"],["林委員淑芬：我現在講，為了提升婦女人權，促進性別平等的重要成果，它公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議。跟你們最直接相關的第49點和第50點是這樣說的，第49點說臺灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一，國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱、零散且模糊的產假和育嬰制度。儘管臺灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性，但仍然很僵化，所以國際審查委員會關切臺灣的育嬰假制度現在主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻。","第50點就講到，國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰假制度，以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標，讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用，以增進國家利益。它一直在建議要改善育嬰假制度，我們都知道針對這個國家報告，我們要採取行動方針、要訂出績效指標，對不對？你知道嗎？你們訂了什麼？你們知道嗎？你們的績效指標，還是你們的行動方針是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：這個部分勞動部還是持續在研議當中，我知道委員……"],["林委員淑芬：如果你不知道，業務單位知不知道？"],["黃司長維琛：這個部分我們持續會有一些更精進的方式……"],["林委員淑芬：我在問你們的績效指標、行動方針是什麼？111年到現在，4年一次，115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動、有了什麼關鍵的績效指標要回復出來、要做報告！部長不知道，業務單位也不知道？那我跟你報告，既然你不知道，換我跟你報告好了。今年2月你們就公開了CEDAW第四次國家報告行動回應表112年的辦理情形，你們的具體行動方針、你們的具體行動就是加強宣導職場平權概念，關鍵的績效指標是1年要辦25場宣導會，讓勞工瞭解自身權益、雇主要遵守法令。你們的行動方針是辦宣導會，績效指標是要達到1年辦25次。人家說你的育嬰假要改善，你說好，你來宣導平權，1年辦25次就代表績效達到了，這樣未免太便宜行事了吧？部長，這樣會不會太簡單？這樣會不會就虛與委蛇？你們在115年要報告具體的推動成果，難道你要跟國際審查委員會說，你已經辦了1年，不是辦25場，而是辦26場的宣導，要這樣子講嗎？人家說你要改善你的育嬰假制度，要建立一個更有彈性、不僵化的，你卻說你去宣導了。部長，這樣夠嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個當然不夠。不過有關育嬰假的部分，我剛剛其實要表達，我責成業務單位一定要做一些研議、規劃。"],["林委員淑芬：我們已經跟你建請多少年了？至少我們開過公聽會，至少這5年內也都一直不斷地跟你說，希望能有一個更好、更彈性親子假的架構，都跟你們講了！但我今天要說，你們部裡面始終認為育嬰留職停薪有做就是了。你們大概檢視了兩個到底有沒有做，第一個就是申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工有意願重返原工作崗位，你們認為這個就是指標；第二個、你們認為雇主願意提供原工作的比例上升了。他有意願再重返職場，雇主讓他返回原來工作崗位的意願也提高了，你們認為這樣就叫達標了，事實上重返職場、重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎？我們希望你對申請育嬰留職停薪勞工的職涯變化還要進行長期追蹤。我們發現你們自己的勞安所其實也有一份長期的追蹤報告，勞安所研究發現，申請育嬰留職停薪者相較於未請領者有較高的離職率，也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較，更深度檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效。","我在這裡要強調，我們不反對育嬰留職停薪，但是透過勞安所這份研究，更證明維持女性的勞參率，即維持生兒、養小孩以前的勞參率，不是只有靠育嬰留職停薪。不要每次談到家庭跟工作生活要平衡，你就說有育嬰留職停薪假，提高了經濟性的補貼，就叫我們要住嘴，不是的！第一個、國家勞動力短缺，你們動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍幫傭、開放外籍勞工，不只是那樣子！我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會的90%下降到生完小孩10年以後剩百分之四十幾。臺灣的婦女勞參勞率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前，要留住臺灣這一些專業認真的女性勞動者，你們要拿出來的不是只有育嬰留職停薪假。","為什麼我要這麼說？你來看育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與意願的可行性報告，這是你們勞安所108年的報告。以2007年持續就業這一群來看，育兒第1年的勞參率79%，他養小孩養到最後1年剩下45%。我們也知道養小孩的第1年還是很多人會留在職場，但是他要面臨幾個階段：第一個階段大幅下降的就是在第3年、小孩大概送托兒所了，送托兒所就經常容易生病、感冒、腸病毒，婦女要帶回家自己顧5天、顧7天，東奔西跑，結果大幅滑落，-8.9%。再來第6年要念小學了，反而滑落，-3.4%，因為家長要陪伴孩子、關心他的教育，發生問題要跟學校老師溝通，所以還需要很多、很彈性的時間。但是大部分的狀況不友善、沒有配套，讓他還是選擇離職。追蹤到最後1年，即第12年之後剩下45.5%。你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復返，因為有很多臨時狀況，所以育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後，就沒有再重返職場，這個才是國家勞動力最大的隱憂。然而你們大概想沒關係，有外勞、外籍移工，也有外籍幫傭。婦女要二度就業大概重返什麼的門檻最低，你知道嗎？也有部分的婦女會去做到宅保母、居家清潔，結果開放外籍幫傭，他們又繼續失業了。","接下來，孩子6歲以前，婦女多選擇直接離開職場，但是小孩年齡比較大、可以上學以後，他就會開始採取兼職。我們現在以高所得跟低所得來看，不管高低所得，大家覺得所得這麼高的婦女大概不會離開職場吧？薪水這麼高、這麼好，你就去請外傭來幫傭、幫忙帶小孩就好了！有人幫你帶小孩、煮飯、清潔、打掃，這麼高薪，你不會離開職場吧？事實上不然，你看，高所得者生完小孩後第1年還有82.8%，到第12年剩下47.1%，這樣下降了多少？你看低所得的人76.6%，追蹤到最後一年是43%，一樣大幅滑落，你不要以為很有成就感、所得很高的婦女就願意繼續留在職場，其實他還是有很多的需求。","所以我們今天在這邊要跟大家講說，育嬰留職停薪者即便申請也只是0到3歲，0到3歲以後他還是有就業、有薪資所得的需求，有申請過育嬰留職停薪而後持續就業的，跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比，他還是比較低。其實很多人是因為經濟因素，所以他不能夠沒有收入，他必須要有收入還必須要兼顧育兒，所以在這樣的狀況下，我們一直在跟你溝通，引導育兒女性重返職場，不只是育嬰留職停薪假，也不只有顧小孩的外傭，你看，到6歲之後還是繼續在滑落，不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩。所以我們也希望著眼於避免育兒女性退出職場，有薪彈性的親職假很重要，它的彈性在於，如果育兒留職停薪的假是2個月、60天，讓它開放到以天、以半天、以小時的方案，然後有薪資補貼，當然原本就是就保繼續付，也沒有叫雇主付；並且對雇主來講也很友善，生育婦女不是一次請2個月，也不是一次請1個月，他也不用半年內分2次請，對雇主來講是以天為單位，他比較好搭配，不用再請一個人來替補人力，總共天數就是6個月，抱歉，我剛剛講錯，是6個月，所以不是2個月，我剛剛一直講錯，這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢彈性的去請，如果你讓他一次請3個月或6個月，對雇主的衝擊比這個彈性的作法還更大啊，對不對？部長，一次請6個月跟一次請1天、6天，哪一個對雇主衝擊比較大？"],["許部長銘春：主要是它人力的運用還有替代的人會不會不好找，本來是想說這種零碎化的方式可能比較難找人，沒關係，委員……"],["林委員淑芬：不是，6個月，雇主還要找一個人來替補他，3個月也要……"],["許部長銘春：對啊。"],["林委員淑芬：但6天跟1天他比較好找人、找替補的。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，有些輪班的公司如果是1小時、2小時，這對它會比較困難，因為它沒有辦法去找這種1小時的人力來替換。所以……"],["林委員淑芬：你這樣講的話，你們的鼓勵婦女再就業計畫裡面寫到獎勵雇主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數，這個方案你就不用做了啊，照你所說的，你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整，每個職缺每個月發給3,000元，最長12個月，最高獎勵3萬6,000元，這個方案到113年2月29號截止，你們發了687個職缺去補助，並且要透過獎勵去引導雇主縮短工作時數，讓育兒女性有彈性，你還要給錢，但你現在又說這個對於排班的公司來講是很困難的，你的這個政策跟你剛才所講的是矛盾的。"],["主席：林委員，因為時間的關係，等一下還要處理臨時提案，是不是趕快做一個……"],["林委員淑芬：好，我趕快做一個結束。","首先，你覺得這個部分就是應該要彈性化，而且你要有獎勵，你還發給雇主最高一年3萬6,000元的獎勵。"],["許部長銘春：不是，報告委員，那個彈性化跟我剛剛講的那個不太一樣，我剛剛是講說……"],["林委員淑芬：你的是說提供雇主有照顧小孩需求的女性，調整或縮短工作時數耶！"],["主席：林委員，是不是等一下請勞動部這邊會後跟你說明？"],["許部長銘春：我再書面跟你答復好了，比較清楚。"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦，我們的意思是說我們要的是有薪的彈性親子假，因為彈性的親子假才能留住女性的勞動率，他不能夠沒有工作、沒有收入，可是又要照顧小孩。"],["許部長銘春：委員……"],["林委員淑芬：我們希望友善一點，也不是只有到6歲為止，甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題，小學階段如果有腸病毒，一放都7天啊。"],["許部長銘春：委員，這一題我有在處理，我請業務單位去跟您報告，我們可能會擬試辦計畫。而我剛剛在跟你講的是說，不是每個行業都有辦法這樣做，但我們先就可以做的行業先試辦看看，我請業務單位去跟您充分說明。"],["林委員淑芬：以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休……"],["主席：林委員，可不可以先做……"],["林委員淑芬：我們也是先訂了啊，對不對？"],["主席：是不是請勞動部等一下會後再跟你說明？"],["林委員淑芬：對啦，我知道。我是說育兒的需求完整來講，像小學階段要到12歲，彈性化的話要很久，我剛剛講腸病毒一放假就是7天，整個小學階段都是；也不是只有照顧這個小孩到6歲而已，不是只有這樣而已。"],["主席：謝謝。請勞動等一下會後再跟林委員說明。"],["許部長銘春：好。謝謝。"],["主席：我在這邊做一個宣告，等一下林月琴委員質詢結束後處理臨時提案。","現在請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agend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\"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1080.444, \"end\": 1080.624, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 1080.624, \"end\": 1080.924, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1080.924, \"end\": 1080.944, \"score\": 0.985}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,433 --> 00:00:11,653\n許麗芬議員\n\n2\n00:00:19,571 --> 00:00:46,439\n林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎\n\n3\n00:00:50,578 --> 00:01:03,883\n消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施\n\n4\n00:01:05,922 --> 00:01:19,406\n我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的\n\n5\n00:01:23,047 --> 00:01:41,905\n第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性\n\n6\n00:01:42,566 --> 00:01:51,472\n但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益\n\n7\n00:02:13,306 --> 00:02:26,311\n所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:26,311 --> 00:02:26,351\n你們訂什麼?\n\n9\n00:02:26,351 --> 00:02:26,571\n你們知道嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:26,571 --> 00:02:27,651\n你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼?\n\n11\n00:02:39,079 --> 00:02:50,233\n報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道您沒有啊你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道\n\n12\n00:02:52,664 --> 00:03:13,575\n這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道\n\n13\n00:03:16,158 --> 00:03:19,420\n我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CEDAW第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是\n\n14\n00:03:34,531 --> 00:03:51,776\n加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益顧主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢\n\n15\n00:03:55,937 --> 00:04:08,363\n計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了\n\n16\n00:04:10,408 --> 00:04:29,176\n這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧?保證這樣會太簡單了嗎?這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊?這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎?人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度\n\n17\n00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,590\n要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了保證這樣會搞\n\n18\n00:04:48,702 --> 00:05:09,375\n這個檔案不夠啦,不過我知道就是運價的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了我至少我們開過工地會然後這幾年至少這五年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子價的架構\n\n19\n00:05:14,719 --> 00:05:17,402\n都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說啊我育英留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說\n\n20\n00:05:32,869 --> 00:05:56,602\n這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返員工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供員工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位\n\n21\n00:05:57,663 --> 00:06:12,678\n而的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們來跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎\n\n22\n00:06:15,290 --> 00:06:38,248\n所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者\n\n23\n00:06:39,429 --> 00:07:03,019\n有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率\n\n24\n00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:31,147\n維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持他不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的\n\n25\n00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:40,205\n第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾%\n\n26\n00:07:58,456 --> 00:08:17,334\n台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己\n\n27\n00:08:18,876 --> 00:08:36,005\n這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看\n\n28\n00:08:37,146 --> 00:08:42,553\n他這個育兒第一年他勞參率還在看2007好了2007持續就業的200779%他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45%\n\n29\n00:08:51,934 --> 00:09:09,542\n那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生\n\n30\n00:09:11,621 --> 00:09:21,033\n融於生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧七天而大家總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9再來第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了-3.4\n\n31\n00:09:29,364 --> 00:09:47,433\n小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇這個離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5\n\n32\n00:09:54,657 --> 00:09:59,459\n所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到婦育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力\n\n33\n00:10:16,087 --> 00:10:16,467\n所以我現在看第二接下來\n\n34\n00:10:43,170 --> 00:11:01,584\n那6歲以前啊婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是呢年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職然後那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了\n\n35\n00:11:09,150 --> 00:11:11,833\n帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高興你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看\n\n36\n00:11:20,998 --> 00:11:36,569\n高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場\n\n37\n00:11:48,905 --> 00:11:55,279\n哦其實他他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說\n\n38\n00:11:58,705 --> 00:12:24,034\n這個獄嬰劉子廷新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比\n\n39\n00:12:25,339 --> 00:12:45,295\n有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢\n\n40\n00:12:49,423 --> 00:13:04,077\n我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看看他六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落\n\n41\n00:13:08,001 --> 00:13:27,818\n他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛\n\n42\n00:13:28,599 --> 00:13:51,035\n那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月\n\n43\n00:13:52,236 --> 00:14:11,903\n然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月\n\n44\n00:14:15,344 --> 00:14:22,868\n這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長一天請6個月跟一天請6天都一個對僱主的衝擊比較大\n\n45\n00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:52,491\n就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦6個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛3個月也要對啊但6天跟1天\n\n46\n00:14:53,611 --> 00:15:15,380\n他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來那你這樣子講的話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裡面你講到說獎勵僱主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數\n\n47\n00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:28,492\n你這個方案你等門責啊叫你講欸你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助\n\n48\n00:15:40,043 --> 00:16:06,346\n然後你們要透過獎律去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的林委員是因為時間的關係等一下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了\n\n49\n00:16:08,058 --> 00:16:27,205\n首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要有獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵那個彈性化跟剛剛我講的不太一樣你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊\n\n50\n00:16:39,946 --> 00:16:52,317\n我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦\n\n51\n00:16:52,998 --> 00:17:20,348\n當然不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你示範計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來示範看看啦我請業務單位去給你們\n\n52\n00:17:22,129 --> 00:17:49,337\n以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧\n\n53\n00:17:50,177 --> 00:18:00,944\n而這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已好謝謝請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明好那我在這邊做一個宣告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11433\t11653\t許麗芬議員\n19571\t46439\t林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎\n50578\t63883\t消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施\n65922\t79406\t我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的\n83047\t101905\t第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性\n102566\t111472\t但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益\n133306\t146311\t所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎?\n146311\t146351\t你們訂什麼?\n146351\t146571\t你們知道嗎?\n146571\t147651\t你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼?\n159079\t170233\t報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道您沒有啊你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道\n172664\t193575\t這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道\n196158\t199420\t我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CEDAW第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是\n214531\t231776\t加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益顧主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢\n235937\t248363\t計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了\n250408\t269176\t這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧?保證這樣會太簡單了嗎?這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊?這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎?人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度\n278760\t283590\t要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了保證這樣會搞\n288702\t309375\t這個檔案不夠啦,不過我知道就是運價的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了我至少我們開過工地會然後這幾年至少這五年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子價的架構\n314719\t317402\t都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說啊我育英留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說\n332869\t356602\t這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返員工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供員工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位\n357663\t372678\t而的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們來跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎\n375290\t398248\t所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者\n399429\t423019\t有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率\n425640\t451147\t維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持他不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的\n451960\t460205\t第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾%\n478456\t497334\t台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己\n498876\t516005\t這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看\n517146\t522553\t他這個育兒第一年他勞參率還在看2007好了2007持續就業的200779%他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45%\n531934\t549542\t那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生\n551621\t561033\t融於生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧七天而大家總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9再來第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了-3.4\n569364\t587433\t小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇這個離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5\n594657\t599459\t所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到婦育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力\n616087\t616467\t所以我現在看第二接下來\n643170\t661584\t那6歲以前啊婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是呢年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職然後那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了\n669150\t671833\t帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高興你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看\n680998\t696569\t高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場\n708905\t715279\t哦其實他他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說\n718705\t744034\t這個獄嬰劉子廷新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比\n745339\t765295\t有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢\n769423\t784077\t我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看看他六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落\n788001\t807818\t他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛\n808599\t831035\t那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月\n832236\t851903\t然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月\n855344\t862868\t這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長一天請6個月跟一天請6天都一個對僱主的衝擊比較大\n873206\t892491\t就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦6個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛3個月也要對啊但6天跟1天\n893611\t915380\t他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來那你這樣子講的話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裡面你講到說獎勵僱主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數\n916480\t928492\t你這個方案你等門責啊叫你講欸你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助\n940043\t966346\t然後你們要透過獎律去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的林委員是因為時間的關係等一下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了\n968058\t987205\t首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要有獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵那個彈性化跟剛剛我講的不太一樣你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊\n999946\t1012317\t我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦\n1012998\t1040348\t當然不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你示範計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來示範看看啦我請業務單位去給你們\n1042129\t1069337\t以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊 對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧\n1070177\t1080944\t而這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已好謝謝請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明好那我在這邊做一個宣告\n","txt":"許麗芬議員\n林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎\n消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施\n我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的\n第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性\n但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益\n所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎?\n你們訂什麼?\n你們知道嗎?\n你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼?\n報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道您沒有啊你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道\n這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道\n我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CEDAW第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是\n加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益顧主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢\n計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了\n這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧?保證這樣會太簡單了嗎?這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊?這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎?人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度\n要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了保證這樣會搞\n這個檔案不夠啦,不過我知道就是運價的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了我至少我們開過工地會然後這幾年至少這五年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子價的架構\n都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說啊我育英留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說\n這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返員工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供員工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位\n而的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們來跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎\n所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者\n有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率\n維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持他不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的\n第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾%\n台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己\n這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看\n他這個育兒第一年他勞參率還在看2007好了2007持續就業的200779%他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45%\n那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生\n融於生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧七天而大家總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9再來第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了-3.4\n小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇這個離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5\n所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到婦育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力\n所以我現在看第二接下來\n那6歲以前啊婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是呢年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職然後那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了\n帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高興你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看\n高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場\n哦其實他他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說\n這個獄嬰劉子廷新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比\n有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢\n我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看看他六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落\n他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛\n那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月\n然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月\n這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長一天請6個月跟一天請6天都一個對僱主的衝擊比較大\n就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦6個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛3個月也要對啊但6天跟1天\n他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來那你這樣子講的話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裡面你講到說獎勵僱主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數\n你這個方案你等門責啊叫你講欸你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助\n然後你們要透過獎律去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的林委員是因為時間的關係等一下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了\n首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要有獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵那個彈性化跟剛剛我講的不太一樣你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊\n我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦\n當然不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你示範計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來示範看看啦我請業務單位去給你們\n以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊 對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧\n而這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已好謝謝請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明好那我在這邊做一個宣告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.433 --> 00:11.653\n許麗芬議員\n\n00:19.571 --> 00:46.439\n林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎\n\n00:50.578 --> 01:03.883\n消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施\n\n01:05.922 --> 01:19.406\n我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的\n\n01:23.047 --> 01:41.905\n第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性\n\n01:42.566 --> 01:51.472\n但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益\n\n02:13.306 --> 02:26.311\n所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎?\n\n02:26.311 --> 02:26.351\n你們訂什麼?\n\n02:26.351 --> 02:26.571\n你們知道嗎?\n\n02:26.571 --> 02:27.651\n你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼?\n\n02:39.079 --> 02:50.233\n報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道您沒有啊你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道\n\n02:52.664 --> 03:13.575\n這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道\n\n03:16.158 --> 03:19.420\n我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CEDAW第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是\n\n03:34.531 --> 03:51.776\n加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益顧主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢\n\n03:55.937 --> 04:08.363\n計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了\n\n04:10.408 --> 04:29.176\n這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧?保證這樣會太簡單了嗎?這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊?這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎?人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度\n\n04:38.760 --> 04:43.590\n要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了保證這樣會搞\n\n04:48.702 --> 05:09.375\n這個檔案不夠啦,不過我知道就是運價的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了我至少我們開過工地會然後這幾年至少這五年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子價的架構\n\n05:14.719 --> 05:17.402\n都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說啊我育英留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說\n\n05:32.869 --> 05:56.602\n這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返員工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供員工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位\n\n05:57.663 --> 06:12.678\n而的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們來跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎\n\n06:15.290 --> 06:38.248\n所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者\n\n06:39.429 --> 07:03.019\n有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率\n\n07:05.640 --> 07:31.147\n維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持他不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的\n\n07:31.960 --> 07:40.205\n第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾%\n\n07:58.456 --> 08:17.334\n台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己\n\n08:18.876 --> 08:36.005\n這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看\n\n08:37.146 --> 08:42.553\n他這個育兒第一年他勞參率還在看2007好了2007持續就業的200779%他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45%\n\n08:51.934 --> 09:09.542\n那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生\n\n09:11.621 --> 09:21.033\n融於生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧七天而大家總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9再來第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了-3.4\n\n09:29.364 --> 09:47.433\n小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇這個離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5\n\n09:54.657 --> 09:59.459\n所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到婦育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力\n\n10:16.087 --> 10:16.467\n所以我現在看第二接下來\n\n10:43.170 --> 11:01.584\n那6歲以前啊婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是呢年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職然後那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了\n\n11:09.150 --> 11:11.833\n帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高興你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看\n\n11:20.998 --> 11:36.569\n高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場\n\n11:48.905 --> 11:55.279\n哦其實他他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說\n\n11:58.705 --> 12:24.034\n這個獄嬰劉子廷新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比\n\n12:25.339 --> 12:45.295\n有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢\n\n12:49.423 --> 13:04.077\n我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看看他六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落\n\n13:08.001 --> 13:27.818\n他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛\n\n13:28.599 --> 13:51.035\n那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月\n\n13:52.236 --> 14:11.903\n然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月\n\n14:15.344 --> 14:22.868\n這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長一天請6個月跟一天請6天都一個對僱主的衝擊比較大\n\n14:33.206 --> 14:52.491\n就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦6個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛3個月也要對啊但6天跟1天\n\n14:53.611 --> 15:15.380\n他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來那你這樣子講的話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裡面你講到說獎勵僱主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數\n\n15:16.480 --> 15:28.492\n你這個方案你等門責啊叫你講欸你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助\n\n15:40.043 --> 16:06.346\n然後你們要透過獎律去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的林委員是因為時間的關係等一下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了\n\n16:08.058 --> 16:27.205\n首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要有獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵那個彈性化跟剛剛我講的不太一樣你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊\n\n16:39.946 --> 16:52.317\n我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦\n\n16:52.998 --> 17:20.348\n當然不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你示範計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來示範看看啦我請業務單位去給你們\n\n17:22.129 --> 17:49.337\n以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧\n\n17:50.177 --> 18:00.944\n而這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已好謝謝請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明好那我在這邊做一個宣告\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.433,"end":11.653,"text":"許麗芬議員"},{"start":19.571,"end":46.439,"text":"林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎"},{"start":50.578,"end":63.883,"text":"消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上有更友善的措施"},{"start":65.922,"end":79.406,"text":"我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的"},{"start":83.047,"end":101.905,"text":"第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性"},{"start":102.566,"end":111.472,"text":"但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益"},{"start":133.306,"end":146.311,"text":"所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎?"},{"start":146.311,"end":146.351,"text":"你們訂什麼?"},{"start":146.351,"end":146.571,"text":"你們知道嗎?"},{"start":146.571,"end":147.651,"text":"你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼?"},{"start":159.079,"end":170.233,"text":"報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道您沒有啊你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道"},{"start":172.664,"end":193.575,"text":"這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道"},{"start":196.158,"end":199.42,"text":"我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CEDAW第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是"},{"start":214.531,"end":231.776,"text":"加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益顧主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢"},{"start":235.937,"end":248.363,"text":"計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了"},{"start":250.408,"end":269.176,"text":"這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧?保證這樣會太簡單了嗎?這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊?這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎?人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度"},{"start":278.76,"end":283.59,"text":"要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了保證這樣會搞"},{"start":288.702,"end":309.375,"text":"這個檔案不夠啦,不過我知道就是運價的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了我至少我們開過工地會然後這幾年至少這五年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子價的架構"},{"start":314.719,"end":317.402,"text":"都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說啊我育英留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說"},{"start":332.869,"end":356.602,"text":"這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返員工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供員工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位"},{"start":357.663,"end":372.678,"text":"而的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們來跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎"},{"start":375.29,"end":398.248,"text":"所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者"},{"start":399.429,"end":423.019,"text":"有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率"},{"start":425.64,"end":451.147,"text":"維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持他不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的"},{"start":451.96,"end":460.205,"text":"第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾%"},{"start":478.456,"end":497.334,"text":"台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己"},{"start":498.876,"end":516.005,"text":"這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看"},{"start":517.146,"end":522.553,"text":"他這個育兒第一年他勞參率還在看2007好了2007持續就業的200779%他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45%"},{"start":531.934,"end":549.542,"text":"那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生"},{"start":551.621,"end":561.033,"text":"融於生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧七天而大家總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9再來第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了-3.4"},{"start":569.364,"end":587.433,"text":"小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇這個離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5"},{"start":594.657,"end":599.459,"text":"所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到婦育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力"},{"start":616.087,"end":616.467,"text":"所以我現在看第二接下來"},{"start":643.17,"end":661.584,"text":"那6歲以前啊婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是呢年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職然後那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了"},{"start":669.15,"end":671.833,"text":"帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高興你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看"},{"start":680.998,"end":696.569,"text":"高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場"},{"start":708.905,"end":715.279,"text":"哦其實他他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說"},{"start":718.705,"end":744.034,"text":"這個獄嬰劉子廷新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比"},{"start":745.339,"end":765.295,"text":"有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢"},{"start":769.423,"end":784.077,"text":"我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看看他六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落"},{"start":788.001,"end":807.818,"text":"他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛"},{"start":808.599,"end":831.035,"text":"那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月"},{"start":832.236,"end":851.903,"text":"然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月"},{"start":855.344,"end":862.868,"text":"這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長一天請6個月跟一天請6天都一個對僱主的衝擊比較大"},{"start":873.206,"end":892.491,"text":"就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦6個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛3個月也要對啊但6天跟1天"},{"start":893.611,"end":915.38,"text":"他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來那你這樣子講的話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裡面你講到說獎勵僱主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數"},{"start":916.48,"end":928.492,"text":"你這個方案你等門責啊叫你講欸你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助"},{"start":940.043,"end":966.346,"text":"然後你們要透過獎律去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的林委員是因為時間的關係等一下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了"},{"start":968.058,"end":987.205,"text":"首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要有獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵那個彈性化跟剛剛我講的不太一樣你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊"},{"start":999.946,"end":1012.317,"text":"我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦"},{"start":1012.998,"end":1040.348,"text":"當然不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你示範計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來示範看看啦我請業務單位去給你們"},{"start":1042.129,"end":1069.337,"text":"以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊 對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧"},{"start":1070.177,"end":1080.944,"text":"而這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已好謝謝請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明好那我在這邊做一個宣告"}]}}}}