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11:44:47","影片長度":"00:10:11","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":611,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:44:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:34:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":749,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時34分）謝謝主席。我們是不是有請部長？"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，最近這幾天臺灣股市上兩萬點，台積電衝到了將近800元，我想這是全民都很振奮的消息，但是我們在關心台積電的先進製程，事實上我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程，而且成熟製程過去也是臺灣很強項，尤其全世界在缺車用晶片時，臺灣可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙，當時全世界需要這一些晶片的都來臺灣洽詢車用晶片，但是我在上一個會期事實上就有提到有關成熟製程，中國在紅海布局之下，我們擔心的是中國積極擴張成熟製程，未來會用以量來制價的方式，然後全世界成熟製程的市場又被中國用這種削價競爭、惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的成熟製程。部長，這幾個月來我們部裡針對這樣一個情況有怎樣的因應措施嗎？"],["王部長美花：是，對於這樣一個狀況，我們有跟產業還有智庫交換意見，大致上是這樣，雖然叫成熟製程，但是它有特殊製程，也就是說，它跟IC設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發，它甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能，可是因為特殊的製程就是很特定化，就不容易被取代，所以這個部分，其實我們的廠商也知道，就是要儘量朝特殊的製程來做，而不是那一種通用品的晶片，通用品的晶片非常有可能被中國大陸用紅海政策、低價政策來侵蝕國際的市場。","第二個，臺灣最好的就是跟很多廠商有非常好的信任關係，他們有長久合作時，要轉移相關的供應就不會那麼簡單，這個部分像委員剛才講的車用，車用非常重視安全，所以那個晶片其實都是成熟製程，但是它都是特定化，而且都會經過長期的安全驗證，這個部分就可以穩固他們的供應關係，所以我們一定會讓廠商朝這個方向做。再來，就是我們現在的智慧臺灣晶創計畫裡，也會導引我們的IC設計業者來做特殊製程規劃，這個部分也有助於我們臺灣……"],["蔡委員易餘：臺灣晶創計畫就是指晶片驅動臺灣產業創新方案？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們是規劃10年要用3,000億的輔導跟投資。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們的具體作為是怎樣？"],["王部長美花：這個部分在經濟部，因為不同部會各有作法，經濟部的部分有幾個大項，包括IC設計的部分，我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計，比如原來它只會做28奈米，就讓它往十幾奈米推進，另外一個部分就是應用面，它可以多應用在高階特殊的，包括車用的、包括AI的或者是通訊這方面，都是比較有nich的，這就是我們在推進他們的部分，目前都在緊鑼密鼓的招標當中。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，事實上針對我們剛才說的這個狀況，美國最近也不斷有新聞出來，包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說，針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製成熟製程晶片的部分要重啟調查，美國採取這樣一個態度，如果我們臺灣現在的成熟製程也進入到了中國供應鏈，當它未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象，而我們臺灣的廠商會不會也進入到這個被調查對象？"],["王部長美花：應該是不會，目前這個部分看得非常明顯，我想我們產業很清楚，也就是說你在臺灣設計、你在臺灣製造的話，你賣給美國，不管是車商通訊或軍用的話都是安全的。"],["蔡委員易餘：都是安全？"],["王部長美花：對，這個部分對臺灣就是一個非常好的長期商機。"],["蔡委員易餘：如何來做一個切割？就是說同樣的晶片，對不對？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：會不會我又販賣到中國、然後又販賣到美國？"],["王部長美花：那個沒有關係，那是我們的販賣，沒有問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：販賣沒有問題？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：但是在製造的一個過程，我想要強調的就是，事實上賴清德在這幾個月來都說臺灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業，就是我們應該要跟世界的民主同盟，我們應該要針對這樣一個產業鏈有自我保護，而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式，而且他們會用很多我剛剛講的方式，去惡意取得或者是用低價的削價競爭，或者是他們用後台來控制整個產業的技術，那我們要怎麼去防止這一塊，建立我們的信賴產業？"],["王部長美花：沒有錯，所以現在在這樣一個國際的大局勢裡面，臺灣如果要賣到歐美市場，在臺灣設計、在臺灣生產是一個非常大的利基，疫後之後2022開始，我們的廠商在國外去參展或者他們和客戶有更多接觸時，其實臺灣的廠商發現這個議題，真的是在國際上，客戶都會問你說：「你是不是在臺灣做的？還是你在中國做的？」所以這個部分「在臺灣做」的信賴，其實是有很好的一個機會。"],["蔡委員易餘：我想建立國際對臺灣的信賴。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個當然我們需要每個廠商一起來投入，所以經濟部應該去輔導他們。"],["王部長美花：沒錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：與其要短時間內去賺中國的錢，還不如現在建立好國際上對我們的信用，他們也相信我們，在這一塊我們會堅守我們的立場，我想這個是不是更重要？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：經濟部應該要去積極的輔導。"],["王部長美花：有，其實我們跟廠商在溝通的時候，廠商也很知道這樣一個國際的趨勢。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。再來，下一個要跟部長討論工輔法的問題，工輔法事實上就是要輔導這些工廠可以走向合法，工輔法上路也已經將近4年了，事實上這4年來我跟這些廠商常常都聚在一起，但是他們確實在工輔法的適用上遇到很大的挫折，現在我指的這一個挫折就是現在我們規定隔離綠帶要1.5公尺，我相信部長時常下鄉去看，他們過去是違法的工廠，但他們沒辦法，他們整個工廠就蓋好了在那裡，甚至我們知道工廠裡面有它的配線，有時還有天車，天車都已經設在那，你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶，把工廠打掉一半，然後把整個天車、把他們的梁柱都拆掉，那對他們來說是一個不可能做到的事，所以他們現在納管之後就只能按兵不動，然後每年繳納管費，他們也沒辦法有再進一步的作為，就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶。部長，我們對這樣的隔離綠帶跟工輔法產生的，沒辦法輔導他們合法的這件事情所產生的扞格，你們沒有辦法有一個再進一步的作法嗎？"],["王部長美花：其實這一個部分有非常多的討論，廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候，它需要土地合法，那要土地合法，其實是整個建築都要一起去看有沒有符合相關的建築法規。我們隔離綠帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變，第一個，它不需要先拆，它是在這個建築被審查的時候，一起來審，而不是說先拆一次，再拆第二次，這是第一個。"],["蔡委員易餘：但是部長，你知道他們在審的過程就得要投入成本，所以他們一定會預先預判，未來的下一步會遇到什麼困難，他們知道一旦要走到合法，因為隔離綠帶，就沒辦法走到合法，這一步它是不會去走的，因為要花很多錢。"],["王部長美花：但是這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家，像有一些已經解決這個問題的案例、成功的案例，讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的，這個其實我們也非常願意……"],["蔡委員易餘：好，沒關係，我會再開幾個協調會或是類似公聽會。"],["王部長美花：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們希望可以實質上讓這一些工廠走向合法，在沒有污染、不影響到周邊環境的情況之下，我們一定要想辦法讓它合法化，工廠合法化，他們要外銷、要做怎樣的方式，而且他們也是合法繳稅，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是，沒錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，部長以後再麻煩。"],["王部長美花：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。","接下來我們請黃珊珊委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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\"上\", \"start\": 569.023, \"end\": 569.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 589.514, \"end\": 589.654, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 589.654, \"end\": 589.674, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 589.674, \"end\": 589.694, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,231 --> 00:00:00,792\n蔡易餘委員發言\n\n2\n00:00:22,226 --> 00:00:40,960\n部長最近這幾天台灣股市上兩萬點那台積電衝到了將近八百點這個我想是全民都很振奮的消息但是我們在關心這一個台積電的一個先進的製程\n\n3\n00:00:41,480 --> 00:01:03,079\n是讓我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程而且成熟製程過去也是台灣的很強項尤其在全世界在缺這個車用晶片的時候台灣是可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙當時候全世界的需要這些晶片的都來台灣這邊來洽詢這個車用晶片\n\n4\n00:01:05,501 --> 00:01:19,299\n但是我們也在於我在上一個會期事實上就有說這個成熟製程那中國的這一個鴻海布局之下我們擔心的是他們未來中國積極的擴張成熟製程未來會用以\n\n5\n00:01:22,663 --> 00:01:44,822\n以量來制價的方式然後讓整個全世界的這個成熟製程的一個市場被中國又用這種銷價競爭用惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的一個成熟製程那我想部長那這幾個月來我們部理針對這樣的一個情況我們有怎樣的一個因應措施嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:45,623 --> 00:01:48,347\n對於這樣的一個狀況我們有跟產業還有跟智庫交換意見大致上是這樣我們雖然叫成熟製程但是還有特殊製程也就是說他跟這個\n\n7\n00:02:01,827 --> 00:02:27,783\n埃西的設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發雖然他可能甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能可是因為那個特殊的製程呢他就是很特定化那這個就不容易被取代所以我們這個部分其實我們的廠商也知道就是要盡量朝特殊的製程來做而不是那一種通用品的晶片通用品非常有可能中國大陸會用這個鴻海政策那個低價的政策來\n\n8\n00:02:31,585 --> 00:02:31,625\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n9\n00:02:48,351 --> 00:02:48,471\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n10\n00:03:11,477 --> 00:03:13,539\n台灣金創計畫是指晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案。我們是規劃10年要用3000億的輔導跟投資。我們的具體作為是怎樣?\n\n11\n00:03:35,098 --> 00:03:37,501\n這個部分在經濟部因為不同部會有做法那經濟部的部分有幾個大項包括這個IC設計的部分我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計要嘛有的從這個比如說原來它只會做28奈米\n\n12\n00:03:49,815 --> 00:03:49,835\n部長﹖\n\n13\n00:04:15,142 --> 00:04:33,687\n美國事實上針對我們剛才講的這個總統美國最近也不斷的有新聞會出來包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製的成熟製成晶片要重啟調查\n\n14\n00:04:35,207 --> 00:04:55,223\n美國採取這樣的一個態度我們台灣如果現在這個純熟製程裡面會不會有就是純熟製程我們進入到了中國供應鏈那未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象然後我們台灣的廠商也進入到了這個被調查對象\n\n15\n00:04:56,583 --> 00:05:10,368\n應該是不會目前的這個部分就是看得非常明顯我想我們產業很清楚也就是說你在台灣設計你在台灣製造的話你賣給美國不管是車商、通訊或軍用的話都是安全的\n\n16\n00:05:11,649 --> 00:05:23,057\n對,那這個部分對台灣就是一個非常好的長期的商機。那如何來做一個切割,就是說我同樣晶片嘛,對不對?對。那我會不會說我又有販賣到中國,然後又要賣到美國?欸,那個沒有關係,那個是我們的販賣,那個沒有問題。販賣沒有問題,但是在製造的一個過程。對,我想要強調就是說,\n\n17\n00:05:30,703 --> 00:05:56,154\n市長賴清德他在這幾個月來都說台灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業就是我們應該要跟世界的一個民主同盟然後我們應該要針對這樣的一個產業鏈我們有一個自我保護而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式而且他們會用很多一些我剛剛講的就是說去惡意取得或者是用低價的銷價競爭或者是他們用後台在控制\n\n18\n00:05:56,674 --> 00:05:56,874\n蔡易餘\n\n19\n00:06:12,765 --> 00:06:12,805\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n20\n00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:01,480\n蔡易餘議員\n\n21\n00:07:46,731 --> 00:08:09,699\n他們過去是違法的工廠,他們就沒辦法,他們整個工廠就棄好啊,棄好在那裏,甚至工廠我們知道他裏面有他的配線,有時都有天車,那天車都盡用在那裏,那你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶,然後把工廠把它打掉一半,然後把整個天車,把他們的樑柱都把它拆掉。\n\n22\n00:08:11,111 --> 00:08:35,108\n那對他們來說這是一個不可能做到的事所以他們現在就只能納管之後然後就只能按兵不動然後每年是繳納管費他們也沒辦法再進一步的作為就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶那部長我們對上隔離綠帶跟功夫法產生的這樣沒辦法輔導他們合法這件事情產生的漢革應該沒有辦法有一個\n\n23\n00:08:36,188 --> 00:09:00,761\n在進一步的作法嗎?其實這個部分有非常多的討論那廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候是他要去土地合法那土地合法的時候他其實整個建築都要一起去看他這個建築有沒有符合相關的建築法規那我們隔離地帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變說第一個他不需要先拆他是在這個建築的時候\n\n24\n00:09:02,662 --> 00:09:24,220\n被審的時候一起來審。而不是說先猜一次再猜第二次。對,但是部長你知道他們在審的過程他們就得要投入成本啊。所以他們一定會預先預判到說我未來的下一步我會遇到什麼困難。所以他們知道一旦我要走到合法我因為隔離綠帶我就沒辦法走到合法。這一步他是不會去走的。\n\n25\n00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:29,043\n但是我們這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家像有一些已經解決這個問題的部分的案例成功的案例讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的那這個其實我們也非常願意到我會再開幾個協調會或是公聽會我們希望可以實質上\n\n26\n00:09:49,514 --> 00:09:49,694\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n231\t792\t蔡易餘委員發言\n22226\t40960\t部長最近這幾天台灣股市上兩萬點那台積電衝到了將近八百點這個我想是全民都很振奮的消息但是我們在關心這一個台積電的一個先進的製程\n41480\t63079\t是讓我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程而且成熟製程過去也是台灣的很強項尤其在全世界在缺這個車用晶片的時候台灣是可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙當時候全世界的需要這些晶片的都來台灣這邊來洽詢這個車用晶片\n65501\t79299\t但是我們也在於我在上一個會期事實上就有說這個成熟製程那中國的這一個鴻海布局之下我們擔心的是他們未來中國積極的擴張成熟製程未來會用以\n82663\t104822\t以量來制價的方式然後讓整個全世界的這個成熟製程的一個市場被中國又用這種銷價競爭用惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的一個成熟製程那我想部長那這幾個月來我們部理針對這樣的一個情況我們有怎樣的一個因應措施嗎?\n105623\t108347\t對於這樣的一個狀況我們有跟產業還有跟智庫交換意見大致上是這樣我們雖然叫成熟製程但是還有特殊製程也就是說他跟這個\n121827\t147783\t埃西的設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發雖然他可能甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能可是因為那個特殊的製程呢他就是很特定化那這個就不容易被取代所以我們這個部分其實我們的廠商也知道就是要盡量朝特殊的製程來做而不是那一種通用品的晶片通用品非常有可能中國大陸會用這個鴻海政策那個低價的政策來\n151585\t151625\t﹚蔡易餘\n168351\t168471\t﹚蔡易餘\n191477\t193539\t台灣金創計畫是指晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案。我們是規劃10年要用3000億的輔導跟投資。我們的具體作為是怎樣?\n215098\t217501\t這個部分在經濟部因為不同部會有做法那經濟部的部分有幾個大項包括這個IC設計的部分我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計要嘛有的從這個比如說原來它只會做28奈米\n229815\t229835\t部長﹖\n255142\t273687\t美國事實上針對我們剛才講的這個總統美國最近也不斷的有新聞會出來包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製的成熟製成晶片要重啟調查\n275207\t295223\t美國採取這樣的一個態度我們台灣如果現在這個純熟製程裡面會不會有就是純熟製程我們進入到了中國供應鏈那未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象然後我們台灣的廠商也進入到了這個被調查對象\n296583\t310368\t應該是不會目前的這個部分就是看得非常明顯我想我們產業很清楚也就是說你在台灣設計你在台灣製造的話你賣給美國不管是車商、通訊或軍用的話都是安全的\n311649\t323057\t對,那這個部分對台灣就是一個非常好的長期的商機。那如何來做一個切割,就是說我同樣晶片嘛,對不對?對。那我會不會說我又有販賣到中國,然後又要賣到美國?欸,那個沒有關係,那個是我們的販賣,那個沒有問題。販賣沒有問題,但是在製造的一個過程。對,我想要強調就是說,\n330703\t356154\t市長賴清德他在這幾個月來都說台灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業就是我們應該要跟世界的一個民主同盟然後我們應該要針對這樣的一個產業鏈我們有一個自我保護而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式而且他們會用很多一些我剛剛講的就是說去惡意取得或者是用低價的銷價競爭或者是他們用後台在控制\n356674\t356874\t蔡易餘\n372765\t372805\t﹚蔡易餘\n398302\t421340\t﹗\n421360\t421480\t蔡易餘議員\n436391\t466391\t議員議員議員\n466731\t489699\t他們過去是違法的工廠,他們就沒辦法,他們整個工廠就棄好啊,棄好在那裏,甚至工廠我們知道他裏面有他的配線,有時都有天車,那天車都盡用在那裏,那你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶,然後把工廠把它打掉一半,然後把整個天車,把他們的樑柱都把它拆掉。\n491111\t515108\t那對他們來說這是一個不可能做到的事所以他們現在就只能納管之後然後就只能按兵不動然後每年是繳納管費他們也沒辦法再進一步的作為就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶那部長我們對上隔離綠帶跟功夫法產生的這樣沒辦法輔導他們合法這件事情產生的漢革應該沒有辦法有一個\n516188\t540761\t在進一步的作法嗎?其實這個部分有非常多的討論那廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候是他要去土地合法那土地合法的時候他其實整個建築都要一起去看他這個建築有沒有符合相關的建築法規那我們隔離地帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變說第一個他不需要先拆他是在這個建築的時候\n542662\t564220\t被審的時候一起來審。而不是說先猜一次再猜第二次。對,但是部長你知道他們在審的過程他們就得要投入成本啊。所以他們一定會預先預判到說我未來的下一步我會遇到什麼困難。所以他們知道一旦我要走到合法我因為隔離綠帶我就沒辦法走到合法。這一步他是不會去走的。\n564560\t569043\t但是我們這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家像有一些已經解決這個問題的部分的案例成功的案例讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的那這個其實我們也非常願意到我會再開幾個協調會或是公聽會我們希望可以實質上\n589514\t589694\t蔡易餘委員\n","txt":"蔡易餘委員發言\n部長最近這幾天台灣股市上兩萬點那台積電衝到了將近八百點這個我想是全民都很振奮的消息但是我們在關心這一個台積電的一個先進的製程\n是讓我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程而且成熟製程過去也是台灣的很強項尤其在全世界在缺這個車用晶片的時候台灣是可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙當時候全世界的需要這些晶片的都來台灣這邊來洽詢這個車用晶片\n但是我們也在於我在上一個會期事實上就有說這個成熟製程那中國的這一個鴻海布局之下我們擔心的是他們未來中國積極的擴張成熟製程未來會用以\n以量來制價的方式然後讓整個全世界的這個成熟製程的一個市場被中國又用這種銷價競爭用惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的一個成熟製程那我想部長那這幾個月來我們部理針對這樣的一個情況我們有怎樣的一個因應措施嗎?\n對於這樣的一個狀況我們有跟產業還有跟智庫交換意見大致上是這樣我們雖然叫成熟製程但是還有特殊製程也就是說他跟這個\n埃西的設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發雖然他可能甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能可是因為那個特殊的製程呢他就是很特定化那這個就不容易被取代所以我們這個部分其實我們的廠商也知道就是要盡量朝特殊的製程來做而不是那一種通用品的晶片通用品非常有可能中國大陸會用這個鴻海政策那個低價的政策來\n﹚蔡易餘\n﹚蔡易餘\n台灣金創計畫是指晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案。我們是規劃10年要用3000億的輔導跟投資。我們的具體作為是怎樣?\n這個部分在經濟部因為不同部會有做法那經濟部的部分有幾個大項包括這個IC設計的部分我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計要嘛有的從這個比如說原來它只會做28奈米\n部長﹖\n美國事實上針對我們剛才講的這個總統美國最近也不斷的有新聞會出來包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製的成熟製成晶片要重啟調查\n美國採取這樣的一個態度我們台灣如果現在這個純熟製程裡面會不會有就是純熟製程我們進入到了中國供應鏈那未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象然後我們台灣的廠商也進入到了這個被調查對象\n應該是不會目前的這個部分就是看得非常明顯我想我們產業很清楚也就是說你在台灣設計你在台灣製造的話你賣給美國不管是車商、通訊或軍用的話都是安全的\n對,那這個部分對台灣就是一個非常好的長期的商機。那如何來做一個切割,就是說我同樣晶片嘛,對不對?對。那我會不會說我又有販賣到中國,然後又要賣到美國?欸,那個沒有關係,那個是我們的販賣,那個沒有問題。販賣沒有問題,但是在製造的一個過程。對,我想要強調就是說,\n市長賴清德他在這幾個月來都說台灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業就是我們應該要跟世界的一個民主同盟然後我們應該要針對這樣的一個產業鏈我們有一個自我保護而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式而且他們會用很多一些我剛剛講的就是說去惡意取得或者是用低價的銷價競爭或者是他們用後台在控制\n蔡易餘\n﹚蔡易餘\n﹗\n蔡易餘議員\n議員議員議員\n他們過去是違法的工廠,他們就沒辦法,他們整個工廠就棄好啊,棄好在那裏,甚至工廠我們知道他裏面有他的配線,有時都有天車,那天車都盡用在那裏,那你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶,然後把工廠把它打掉一半,然後把整個天車,把他們的樑柱都把它拆掉。\n那對他們來說這是一個不可能做到的事所以他們現在就只能納管之後然後就只能按兵不動然後每年是繳納管費他們也沒辦法再進一步的作為就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶那部長我們對上隔離綠帶跟功夫法產生的這樣沒辦法輔導他們合法這件事情產生的漢革應該沒有辦法有一個\n在進一步的作法嗎?其實這個部分有非常多的討論那廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候是他要去土地合法那土地合法的時候他其實整個建築都要一起去看他這個建築有沒有符合相關的建築法規那我們隔離地帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變說第一個他不需要先拆他是在這個建築的時候\n被審的時候一起來審。而不是說先猜一次再猜第二次。對,但是部長你知道他們在審的過程他們就得要投入成本啊。所以他們一定會預先預判到說我未來的下一步我會遇到什麼困難。所以他們知道一旦我要走到合法我因為隔離綠帶我就沒辦法走到合法。這一步他是不會去走的。\n但是我們這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家像有一些已經解決這個問題的部分的案例成功的案例讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的那這個其實我們也非常願意到我會再開幾個協調會或是公聽會我們希望可以實質上\n蔡易餘委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.231 --> 00:00.792\n蔡易餘委員發言\n\n00:22.226 --> 00:40.960\n部長最近這幾天台灣股市上兩萬點那台積電衝到了將近八百點這個我想是全民都很振奮的消息但是我們在關心這一個台積電的一個先進的製程\n\n00:41.480 --> 01:03.079\n是讓我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程而且成熟製程過去也是台灣的很強項尤其在全世界在缺這個車用晶片的時候台灣是可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙當時候全世界的需要這些晶片的都來台灣這邊來洽詢這個車用晶片\n\n01:05.501 --> 01:19.299\n但是我們也在於我在上一個會期事實上就有說這個成熟製程那中國的這一個鴻海布局之下我們擔心的是他們未來中國積極的擴張成熟製程未來會用以\n\n01:22.663 --> 01:44.822\n以量來制價的方式然後讓整個全世界的這個成熟製程的一個市場被中國又用這種銷價競爭用惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的一個成熟製程那我想部長那這幾個月來我們部理針對這樣的一個情況我們有怎樣的一個因應措施嗎?\n\n01:45.623 --> 01:48.347\n對於這樣的一個狀況我們有跟產業還有跟智庫交換意見大致上是這樣我們雖然叫成熟製程但是還有特殊製程也就是說他跟這個\n\n02:01.827 --> 02:27.783\n埃西的設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發雖然他可能甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能可是因為那個特殊的製程呢他就是很特定化那這個就不容易被取代所以我們這個部分其實我們的廠商也知道就是要盡量朝特殊的製程來做而不是那一種通用品的晶片通用品非常有可能中國大陸會用這個鴻海政策那個低價的政策來\n\n02:31.585 --> 02:31.625\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n02:48.351 --> 02:48.471\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n03:11.477 --> 03:13.539\n台灣金創計畫是指晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案。我們是規劃10年要用3000億的輔導跟投資。我們的具體作為是怎樣?\n\n03:35.098 --> 03:37.501\n這個部分在經濟部因為不同部會有做法那經濟部的部分有幾個大項包括這個IC設計的部分我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計要嘛有的從這個比如說原來它只會做28奈米\n\n03:49.815 --> 03:49.835\n部長﹖\n\n04:15.142 --> 04:33.687\n美國事實上針對我們剛才講的這個總統美國最近也不斷的有新聞會出來包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製的成熟製成晶片要重啟調查\n\n04:35.207 --> 04:55.223\n美國採取這樣的一個態度我們台灣如果現在這個純熟製程裡面會不會有就是純熟製程我們進入到了中國供應鏈那未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象然後我們台灣的廠商也進入到了這個被調查對象\n\n04:56.583 --> 05:10.368\n應該是不會目前的這個部分就是看得非常明顯我想我們產業很清楚也就是說你在台灣設計你在台灣製造的話你賣給美國不管是車商、通訊或軍用的話都是安全的\n\n05:11.649 --> 05:23.057\n對,那這個部分對台灣就是一個非常好的長期的商機。那如何來做一個切割,就是說我同樣晶片嘛,對不對?對。那我會不會說我又有販賣到中國,然後又要賣到美國?欸,那個沒有關係,那個是我們的販賣,那個沒有問題。販賣沒有問題,但是在製造的一個過程。對,我想要強調就是說,\n\n05:30.703 --> 05:56.154\n市長賴清德他在這幾個月來都說台灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業就是我們應該要跟世界的一個民主同盟然後我們應該要針對這樣的一個產業鏈我們有一個自我保護而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式而且他們會用很多一些我剛剛講的就是說去惡意取得或者是用低價的銷價競爭或者是他們用後台在控制\n\n05:56.674 --> 05:56.874\n蔡易餘\n\n06:12.765 --> 06:12.805\n﹚蔡易餘\n\n07:01.360 --> 07:01.480\n蔡易餘議員\n\n07:46.731 --> 08:09.699\n他們過去是違法的工廠,他們就沒辦法,他們整個工廠就棄好啊,棄好在那裏,甚至工廠我們知道他裏面有他的配線,有時都有天車,那天車都盡用在那裏,那你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶,然後把工廠把它打掉一半,然後把整個天車,把他們的樑柱都把它拆掉。\n\n08:11.111 --> 08:35.108\n那對他們來說這是一個不可能做到的事所以他們現在就只能納管之後然後就只能按兵不動然後每年是繳納管費他們也沒辦法再進一步的作為就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶那部長我們對上隔離綠帶跟功夫法產生的這樣沒辦法輔導他們合法這件事情產生的漢革應該沒有辦法有一個\n\n08:36.188 --> 09:00.761\n在進一步的作法嗎?其實這個部分有非常多的討論那廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候是他要去土地合法那土地合法的時候他其實整個建築都要一起去看他這個建築有沒有符合相關的建築法規那我們隔離地帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變說第一個他不需要先拆他是在這個建築的時候\n\n09:02.662 --> 09:24.220\n被審的時候一起來審。而不是說先猜一次再猜第二次。對,但是部長你知道他們在審的過程他們就得要投入成本啊。所以他們一定會預先預判到說我未來的下一步我會遇到什麼困難。所以他們知道一旦我要走到合法我因為隔離綠帶我就沒辦法走到合法。這一步他是不會去走的。\n\n09:24.560 --> 09:29.043\n但是我們這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家像有一些已經解決這個問題的部分的案例成功的案例讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的那這個其實我們也非常願意到我會再開幾個協調會或是公聽會我們希望可以實質上\n\n09:49.514 --> 09:49.694\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.231,"end":0.792,"text":"蔡易餘委員發言"},{"start":22.226,"end":40.96,"text":"部長最近這幾天台灣股市上兩萬點那台積電衝到了將近八百點這個我想是全民都很振奮的消息但是我們在關心這一個台積電的一個先進的製程"},{"start":41.48,"end":63.079,"text":"是讓我們知道整個半導體的產業還有成熟製程而且成熟製程過去也是台灣的很強項尤其在全世界在缺這個車用晶片的時候台灣是可以說是給全世界的車廠很大的幫忙當時候全世界的需要這些晶片的都來台灣這邊來洽詢這個車用晶片"},{"start":65.501,"end":79.299,"text":"但是我們也在於我在上一個會期事實上就有說這個成熟製程那中國的這一個鴻海布局之下我們擔心的是他們未來中國積極的擴張成熟製程未來會用以"},{"start":82.663,"end":104.822,"text":"以量來制價的方式然後讓整個全世界的這個成熟製程的一個市場被中國又用這種銷價競爭用惡性補貼的方式來打壓我們的一個成熟製程那我想部長那這幾個月來我們部理針對這樣的一個情況我們有怎樣的一個因應措施嗎?"},{"start":105.623,"end":108.347,"text":"對於這樣的一個狀況我們有跟產業還有跟智庫交換意見大致上是這樣我們雖然叫成熟製程但是還有特殊製程也就是說他跟這個"},{"start":121.827,"end":147.783,"text":"埃西的設計商兩個一起來做RD的研發雖然他可能甚至是在40奈米、55奈米都有可能可是因為那個特殊的製程呢他就是很特定化那這個就不容易被取代所以我們這個部分其實我們的廠商也知道就是要盡量朝特殊的製程來做而不是那一種通用品的晶片通用品非常有可能中國大陸會用這個鴻海政策那個低價的政策來"},{"start":151.585,"end":151.625,"text":"﹚蔡易餘"},{"start":168.351,"end":168.471,"text":"﹚蔡易餘"},{"start":191.477,"end":193.539,"text":"台灣金創計畫是指晶片驅動台灣產業創新方案。我們是規劃10年要用3000億的輔導跟投資。我們的具體作為是怎樣?"},{"start":215.098,"end":217.501,"text":"這個部分在經濟部因為不同部會有做法那經濟部的部分有幾個大項包括這個IC設計的部分我們怎麼樣讓國內的IC設計要嘛有的從這個比如說原來它只會做28奈米"},{"start":229.815,"end":229.835,"text":"部長﹖"},{"start":255.142,"end":273.687,"text":"美國事實上針對我們剛才講的這個總統美國最近也不斷的有新聞會出來包括美國商務部長雷蒙多也說針對像電信、汽車、國防供應鏈會使用中國製的成熟製成晶片要重啟調查"},{"start":275.207,"end":295.223,"text":"美國採取這樣的一個態度我們台灣如果現在這個純熟製程裡面會不會有就是純熟製程我們進入到了中國供應鏈那未來變成在美國重啟調查的對象然後我們台灣的廠商也進入到了這個被調查對象"},{"start":296.583,"end":310.368,"text":"應該是不會目前的這個部分就是看得非常明顯我想我們產業很清楚也就是說你在台灣設計你在台灣製造的話你賣給美國不管是車商、通訊或軍用的話都是安全的"},{"start":311.649,"end":323.057,"text":"對,那這個部分對台灣就是一個非常好的長期的商機。那如何來做一個切割,就是說我同樣晶片嘛,對不對?對。那我會不會說我又有販賣到中國,然後又要賣到美國?欸,那個沒有關係,那個是我們的販賣,那個沒有問題。販賣沒有問題,但是在製造的一個過程。對,我想要強調就是說,"},{"start":330.703,"end":356.154,"text":"市長賴清德他在這幾個月來都說台灣必須要建立所謂信賴的產業就是我們應該要跟世界的一個民主同盟然後我們應該要針對這樣的一個產業鏈我們有一個自我保護而不會讓中國利用他們滲透的方式而且他們會用很多一些我剛剛講的就是說去惡意取得或者是用低價的銷價競爭或者是他們用後台在控制"},{"start":356.674,"end":356.874,"text":"蔡易餘"},{"start":372.765,"end":372.805,"text":"﹚蔡易餘"},{"start":398.302,"end":421.34,"text":"﹗"},{"start":421.36,"end":421.48,"text":"蔡易餘議員"},{"start":436.391,"end":466.391,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":466.731,"end":489.699,"text":"他們過去是違法的工廠,他們就沒辦法,他們整個工廠就棄好啊,棄好在那裏,甚至工廠我們知道他裏面有他的配線,有時都有天車,那天車都盡用在那裏,那你怎麼可能叫他為了配合隔離綠帶,然後把工廠把它打掉一半,然後把整個天車,把他們的樑柱都把它拆掉。"},{"start":491.111,"end":515.108,"text":"那對他們來說這是一個不可能做到的事所以他們現在就只能納管之後然後就只能按兵不動然後每年是繳納管費他們也沒辦法再進一步的作為就是卡在這樣的一個隔離綠帶那部長我們對上隔離綠帶跟功夫法產生的這樣沒辦法輔導他們合法這件事情產生的漢革應該沒有辦法有一個"},{"start":516.188,"end":540.761,"text":"在進一步的作法嗎?其實這個部分有非常多的討論那廠商到需要留這個1.5米的時候是他要去土地合法那土地合法的時候他其實整個建築都要一起去看他這個建築有沒有符合相關的建築法規那我們隔離地帶其實在過往跟現在有很大的改變說第一個他不需要先拆他是在這個建築的時候"},{"start":542.662,"end":564.22,"text":"被審的時候一起來審。而不是說先猜一次再猜第二次。對,但是部長你知道他們在審的過程他們就得要投入成本啊。所以他們一定會預先預判到說我未來的下一步我會遇到什麼困難。所以他們知道一旦我要走到合法我因為隔離綠帶我就沒辦法走到合法。這一步他是不會去走的。"},{"start":564.56,"end":569.043,"text":"但是我們這個部分我們其實非常願意用個案來告訴大家像有一些已經解決這個問題的部分的案例成功的案例讓大家知道可能有幾種模式是可以克服這個問題的那這個其實我們也非常願意到我會再開幾個協調會或是公聽會我們希望可以實質上"},{"start":589.514,"end":589.694,"text":"蔡易餘委員"}]}}}}