{"id":149797,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903a92d2aa63dc939c5b77cff0621b76d91f8ba9b0039caa7a6b6269e3722f5e7cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:36:23 - 11:46:38","影片長度":"00:10:15","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":615,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:46:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:36:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1079,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時36分）主席好，先請審計長。"],["主席：請陳審計長。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：審計長好。首先，本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當干涉，有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告。因為今天很多人都提了很多全國的事情，我們應該來講一些金門審計和主計方面的事宜。","111年度金門縣總預算執行結果，歲入決算數是一百二十三億多，為近五年的新高，當然是因為我們很主動積極的爭取中央補助款，但是受到COVID-19的影響，捐獻和規費收入不如預期，所以金門縣的自籌財源金額比例從40億、即33%，比107年減少了八億多，就是少了11.03%，等於金門縣的自籌財源比例變成近五年的新低，顯示金門對上級政府補助收入的仰賴日深。111年金門縣的歲入歲出相抵，仍短絀十七億多，連續六年的鉅額短絀，財政失衡狀況就越來越嚴重。雖然我們現在是沒有債務，但是還要付很多錢，光是舊制公務人員退休金及優惠存款差額利息就要付五十三億多，對金門縣的日後財政可能產生負擔，這是你們寫的報告。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對！金門雖然沒有負債，但是我們觀察出來它每年都有短絀，現在本島大部分的縣市每年都已經開始有賸餘了，但金門出現反現象，所以它有短絀的現象。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，財政狀況越來越差了。主席，我們想請主計長來談一下，謝謝審計長。"],["主席：請朱主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：主計長好。你們有一個各直轄市及縣市政府財力級次表，對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：對！"],["陳委員玉珍：根據規定，中央對直轄市及縣市政府的計畫型補助款按照財力級次表給不同的比例，對吧？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那個叫補助辦法……"],["陳委員玉珍：金門是第幾級啊？你們總共有五級嘛？"],["朱主計長澤民：五級，對！"],["陳委員玉珍：金門是第幾級？"],["朱主計長澤民：第三級。"],["陳委員玉珍：金門為什麼是第三級？你告訴我，第三級是哪些縣市？臺南市、高雄市、新竹市，我們是離島，跟臺南、高雄排在一起欸！"],["朱主計長澤民：我們有一個行之多年的級次方法。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們的標準是什麼呢？"],["朱主計長澤民：如果是直轄市的話，因為有6個，第一級有1個、第二級有2個、第三級有3個。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，臺北、高雄……"],["朱主計長澤民：另外的16個縣市，第三級會有5個、第四級有5個、第五級有6個。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，每一個級次就是……"],["朱主計長澤民：我們是採相對的概念。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，就是555嘛。我也知道你們按照5個、5個、5個……"],["朱主計長澤民：是556。"],["陳委員玉珍：我是說縣市啦！5個、5個……"],["朱主計長澤民：是556，因為是16個縣市。"],["陳委員玉珍：你看民國100年六都成立後，各縣市有變化，同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江（就是馬祖）都從第三級跳到第五級，為什麼我們金門還是在第三級？"],["朱主計長澤民：大家都知道，金門到現在都沒有借錢過。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道金門沒有借錢啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：這是很難得的。"],["陳委員玉珍：但你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩、模範生喔！因為我們沒有借錢，所以你們就要我們自己出多一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有！補助款本來就是對財政比較好的縣市，我們的比例就比較少……"],["陳委員玉珍：比較好的財政就補助少一點，比較差的財政就補助多一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：對！這個是……"],["陳委員玉珍：金門縣應該把財政弄爛一點，讓你們補助多一點、自己少出一點，比爛就對了啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有這個意思。我跟各位講，我們的方法是如果你往上升的話，還有獎勵措施。"],["陳委員玉珍：從100年到110年，你看我們的財政狀況，我們的縣庫存款已經從195億剩下105億，這幾年已經減少了90億。"],["朱主計長澤民：可是我跟各位講，你們財政累計賸餘的成長率還是全國第二高。"],["陳委員玉珍：就是我們表現還是很好啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：對，對，可能……"],["陳委員玉珍：因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯啦！我們也是很努力在喝，但是……"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，努力！"],["陳委員玉珍：但是你可以這樣子，讓我們為了自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒，但中央給我們的補助款卻一直聞風不動，要自己出這麼多嗎？這樣有公平嗎？這就好像……"],["朱主計長澤民：我必須說明一下……"],["陳委員玉珍：學生如果考試考得好，老師就不給獎勵……"],["朱主計長澤民：我們有獎勵。"],["陳委員玉珍：你就要我們不要每次都考90分，要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們沒有讓……你們永遠都是在第三級嘛！是那個縣市的……"],["陳委員玉珍：對啊！第三級啊！我們怎麼跟臺南、高雄大都會，還有新竹……"],["朱主計長澤民：委員不是這樣，因為我們是分成……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道縣市就是新竹市嘛，現在新竹有科學園區，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：你們也有很好的地理環境啊！我就說你們相對其他的縣市，到現在都還沒借錢……"],["陳委員玉珍：如果我們有借錢，你才會給我們補助多一點就對了，是不是這樣？因為我們沒有借錢，所以只好自己出多一點錢給地方做建設，如果有借錢，你就會給我們更多一點，因為可能有負債，有負債就可以從三級改成四級，改成五級，你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎？你講一下。"],["朱主計長澤民：貴縣的累計賸餘65億，它的成長率……"],["陳委員玉珍：很少啊！已經從200億，到100億，現在剩下60億，很快會變負債啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：僅次於臺北市。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道啦！我的意思是，你剛剛的說法是因為我們都有剩下錢，所以你就沒有辦法給那麼多的補助，我想請問主計長，如果我們去借錢，你就會給比較多的補助嗎？因為我們的財政就變差嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有這種推論！沒有這種推論！"],["陳委員玉珍：你剛剛是這個意思啊！不然是怎樣？"],["朱主計長澤民：我跟你講，我給金門的補助款，113跟112比較的話，它的成長是9.7%！"],["陳委員玉珍：那個我知道，我們的補助款，我們很努力爭取，這是……"],["朱主計長澤民：你們很努力爭取，全部縣市……"],["陳委員玉珍：你說的是總額，我說是比例，一樣建設下來，第三級的縣市比例補助多少，比如說它……"],["朱主計長澤民：不是，我們訂定財政收支方法，就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一點的補助。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，主計長，我只是想請問你，我們金門縣很辛苦，我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖……"],["朱主計長澤民：大家都很辛苦啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：多兩級？我們自己出的錢，就是要多出很多，比如他們補助90，如果馬祖跟澎湖同樣做一個建設，他們是補助大概90%，他們只要自己出10%，但我們要自己出比如18%、20%，這樣真的不公平啦！一樣都是離島，很不公平啊！就是我們金門高梁酒賣得比較好，因為我們金門很努力喝，你這樣子懲罰好學生……"],["朱主計長澤民：因為每一個縣市都是用同樣的標準。"],["陳委員玉珍：報告主計長，這個是懲罰好學生，對不對？你要讓我們把財政……"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！這是一種光榮啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：讀書比較好，一直考90分，就是不給你多一點獎勵，如果你就考到50分，獎勵多一點、糖果給多一點，這樣子很不公平啦！你要不要思考一下，怎麼樣來幫助我們金門縣？我是希望降到跟馬祖、澎湖一樣第五級啦！不行的話，你至少讓我們第四級啊！我們怎麼跟新竹市比啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：這種不能用喊的啦！這個應該是有一致的……"],["陳委員玉珍：不是用喊的嘛！你看你是用近3年度決算審定之自有財源比率平均值嘛！"],["朱主計長澤民：對。16個縣市，貴縣市排第4耶！"],["陳委員玉珍：現在排名第4，要降到第6才能變成第四級嘛！就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛，意思是酒要賺少一點，中央補助才可以多一點，就樣就是懲罰好學生，你理解我在說什麼嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告，我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：你剛剛不是這個意思嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：財政部有考核，根據考核，好的我們有獎勵，考核不好的有扣款，貴縣……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，我知道財政部那個部分，包括各個部會都有相關這個比例……"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊！你應該知道……"],["陳委員玉珍：我都知道。我只是要說在最根本的地方，希望來解決這個問題，就是分級裡頭，我們覺得不能跟新竹市比啦！他們有科學園區耶，對不對？我們跟馬祖、澎湖一樣都是離島縣市，我們的財政之所以好是因為自己真的很努力在經營金酒，金酒是最大的收入來源，大家都知道，不是因為其他的原因，也沒有天降橫財！在這樣的努力下，你至少要鼓勵我們對不對？在補助的部分，你今天不能讓我跟馬祖、澎湖一樣，至少讓我們到第四級……"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員說明……"],["陳委員玉珍：這個部分，你是不是幫我們思考一下，不然我覺得當好學生，好像一直沒有受到鼓勵，您瞭解我的意思嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：我剛才講到因為是好學生，所以一般補助款增加的情形在縣市排名是第2，謝謝。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道我們有增加補助款，但這是因為縣市政府要努力去寫計畫……"],["朱主計長澤民：對，對，對。"],["陳委員玉珍：我們在中央要努力跟各個部會要求、拜託、施壓，來增加相關各個計畫的補助款……"],["朱主計長澤民：不用施壓啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：沒關係，主計長，你這個回去想一下，這個是本席在財政委員會的重點，謝謝。"],["朱主計長澤民：好，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員玉珍代）：我們請羅明才委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-3","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","陳玉珍","王世堅","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強"],"page_start":33,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"149797","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149797","tool":"pyannote","id":"149797-pyannote"},"job_id":"zOUtyT4ziw5tcTgb","queued_at":"2024-06-02 04:39:37","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 04:40:59","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149797"},{"time":"2024-06-02 04:41:00","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903a92d2aa63dc939c5b77cff0621b76d91818ab029c81b3194532b639e3ebb23d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-02 04:41:17","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-02 04:41:18","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-02 04:41:29","msg":"status: 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99.227, \"end\": 99.247, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 102.569, \"end\": 123.335, \"text\": \"對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 102.569, \"end\": 102.909, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 102.909, \"end\": 104.01, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 104.01, \"end\": 104.15, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 104.15, \"end\": 105.11, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 105.11, \"end\": 105.23, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 105.23, \"end\": 105.33, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 105.33, \"end\": 105.81, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 105.81, \"end\": 105.95, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.95, \"end\": 106.31, \"score\": 0.932}, 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\"end\": 579.653, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 579.653, \"end\": 579.873, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 579.873, \"end\": 580.053, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 580.053, \"end\": 580.193, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 580.193, \"end\": 580.213, \"score\": 0.031}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 581.714, \"end\": 581.734, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"謀\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 609.619, \"end\": 609.639, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,190\n委員好首先本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當的干涉有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告\n\n2\n00:00:22,742 --> 00:00:45,720\n那在我看到你們對這個111年因為今天很多人都提很多我們全國的事情應該來講一些金門的這個相關的這個審計和主計方面的事宜111年金門縣總預算的執行結果稅率決算數是123億多是近5年的新高當然是因為我們很主動積極地爭取中央補助款\n\n3\n00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:56,444\n但是受那個COVID-19那個影響捐贈和規費不如預期所以金門縣的自主財源的金額比例從40億33%比107年減少了8億多就是少了11.03%整個我們的金門縣的這個自儲財源比例就是變成近5年的這個新低顯示這是你們寫的顯示對金門對這個上級政府\n\n4\n00:01:13,231 --> 00:01:39,247\n补助收入的仰賴日益生114年金門縣的稅率稅出相比短處17億多連續6年的這個巨額短處財政的這個失衡狀況就越來越嚴重了雖然我們現在是沒有債務但是我們還要付很多包括救治的公務人員退休金優惠存款例行就要付53億多對日後的財政金門縣的財政可能產生這個負擔這是你們寫的你們的這個報告\n\n5\n00:01:42,569 --> 00:02:03,335\n對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長\n\n6\n00:02:10,526 --> 00:02:29,251\n主計長好來那個你們有一個各直轄市和縣政府的財力及時表對吧對根據這個規定就是中央對直轄市縣政府的計劃型補助款按照這個及時表給不同的比例對吧對那金門市第幾級啊你們總共有5級嘛\n\n7\n00:02:32,332 --> 00:02:49,691\n對5集對第3集我們金門為什麼第3集第3集是哪些縣市你告訴我台南市高雄市新竹市我們是離島欸跟台南高雄排在一起欸我們有一個那個集次的那個行之多年的一個方法對你們的標準是什麼呢\n\n8\n00:02:50,451 --> 00:03:09,107\n那個如果是直轄數的話因為有6個第1集1個第2集2個第3集3個阿另外16個的話阿第3集會有5個第4集5個第5集6個我知道就是每一個集市就是我們是採相對的概念對就是555嘛我也知道你們按照3個5個5個5個\n\n9\n00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:30,281\n對我是說縣市五個五個五六五六又16個縣市那你看一百年民國一百年六族成立這個各縣市這個有變化我們同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江就是馬祖都從第三級跳到第五級為什麼我們金門還是在第三級那個金門的大家也都知道\n\n10\n00:03:31,101 --> 00:03:37,625\n緊問到金門也沒有借錢?都沒有借錢過我知道金門沒有借錢啊但是你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩模範生喔因為我們沒有借錢所以你們就要我們自己輸多一點啊\n\n11\n00:03:48,865 --> 00:04:09,670\n不是就是那個補助款就是本來就是說比較好的我們就是比例比較少比較好的財政就補助少一點比較差的財政就補助多一點所以基本線應該把財政弄爛一點讓你們補助多一點自己少出一點比爛就對了那個是我跟各位講我們的方法如果你往上升的話我們還有獎勵措施\n\n12\n00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:37,685\n你看我們110年到110年你看我們的財政狀況我們現庫存款已經從195億剩下105億我們這幾年已經減少了90億可是我跟各位講你們的累計剩餘還是那個成長財政的剩下的那個累計剩餘還是成長率還是全國第二高就是我們表現還是很好因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯我們也是努力在喝但是\n\n13\n00:04:39,946 --> 00:05:00,181\n但是你可以這樣子讓我們為了為了我們自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒但是讓我們中央給我們補助款一直聞風不動的要自己出這麼多嗎?這個就好像學生如果考試考得好那老師就不給獎勵你說讓我們把他考到不要每次都考90分要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們\n\n14\n00:05:02,122 --> 00:05:21,551\n我沒有讓你們說是怎麼說什麼,你們都是在第3集嘛是那個縣市對,第3集啊我們怎麼跟臺南啊高雄啊這大都會啊新竹因為我們是分成我知道,縣市,縣市就是高雄,欸那個新竹市嘛新竹有科學園區啊\n\n15\n00:05:23,544 --> 00:05:33,654\n阿你們應該有很好的地理環境阿我就說阿你就夠盡都要賣救濟阿相對其他的阿因為我們沒有借錢所以我們只好自己出多一點錢來給自己地方做建設所以我們如果有救濟你就會給我們更多一點因為就會變成因為我們就可能有負債有負債就可以從3級改成4級改成5級你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎沒有沒有你講一下\n\n16\n00:05:47,227 --> 00:05:47,247\n憲哥﹗\n\n17\n00:06:13,911 --> 00:06:14,552\n陳玉珍陳玉珍陳玉珍\n\n18\n00:06:25,848 --> 00:06:46,239\n一一三跟一一二比較的話他的成長啊是是百分之九點七那個我知道我知道我們很努力我們很努力爭取那個是你這個算是總額我說的是比例就是說一樣建設下來第三級的縣市比例補助多少啊比如他九十九十二\n\n19\n00:06:46,559 --> 00:07:09,546\n我們必須把財政收支方法就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一些...主計我只是想請問你喔我們金門縣沒有那麼我們很辛苦啦我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖多兩級我們自己出的錢就是要多出很多比如他們補助90%我們要如果是馬祖跟連江同一個建設是馬祖跟這個澎湖啦同一個建設\n\n20\n00:07:10,126 --> 00:07:25,473\n他們就是補助大概90他們只要自己出10%我們自己要自己出比如說18%、20%這樣很不公平啊平平是離島很不公平啊就是因為我們金人剛好就賣不掉但因為我們很努力我們金人很努力喝啊然後你這樣子懲罰好學生這個報告主計長這個是懲罰好學生啊\n\n21\n00:07:30,055 --> 00:07:33,558\n對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員：陳玉珍．對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員．\n\n22\n00:07:59,778 --> 00:08:18,431\n你看你是用近3年度決算審定的自有財源比率的平均值嘛自有財源比率的平均值嘛我們排名第6啦現在排名第4要降到第6才能變成第4級嘛就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛\n\n23\n00:08:19,031 --> 00:08:37,234\n一時而後我們久的要賺少一點我們才可以中央補助多一點那你就是懲罰好學生你理解我在說什麼嗎對那個跟那個委員報告一下你剛剛不是這個意思嗎台政部有考核根據那個考核好的我們有獎勵考核不好的我們有那個是怎麼樣那個所謂的\n\n24\n00:08:38,715 --> 00:08:42,657\n我只是要說在最根本的地方我們希望來解決這個問題就是我們的這個分級裡頭我們覺得說我們不能跟新竹市比\n\n25\n00:08:57,045 --> 00:08:57,065\n﹚珍\n\n26\n00:09:23,641 --> 00:09:40,213\n至少到第4屆這個部分你是不是幫我們思考一下不然我覺得當好學生好像一直沒有受到鼓勵啊您了解我的意思嗎我剛才講到因為是好學生所以我們的一般補助款增加的是在縣市排名是第二謝謝\n\n27\n00:09:41,714 --> 00:09:41,734\n好,謝謝。\n\n28\n00:10:09,619 --> 00:10:09,639\n參謀委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2190\t委員好首先本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當的干涉有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告\n22742\t45720\t那在我看到你們對這個111年因為今天很多人都提很多我們全國的事情應該來講一些金門的這個相關的這個審計和主計方面的事宜111年金門縣總預算的執行結果稅率決算數是123億多是近5年的新高當然是因為我們很主動積極地爭取中央補助款\n46480\t56444\t但是受那個COVID-19那個影響捐贈和規費不如預期所以金門縣的自主財源的金額比例從40億33%比107年減少了8億多就是少了11.03%整個我們的金門縣的這個自儲財源比例就是變成近5年的這個新低顯示這是你們寫的顯示對金門對這個上級政府\n73231\t99247\t补助收入的仰賴日益生114年金門縣的稅率稅出相比短處17億多連續6年的這個巨額短處財政的這個失衡狀況就越來越嚴重了雖然我們現在是沒有債務但是我們還要付很多包括救治的公務人員退休金優惠存款例行就要付53億多對日後的財政金門縣的財政可能產生這個負擔這是你們寫的你們的這個報告\n102569\t123335\t對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長\n130526\t149251\t主計長好來那個你們有一個各直轄市和縣政府的財力及時表對吧對根據這個規定就是中央對直轄市縣政府的計劃型補助款按照這個及時表給不同的比例對吧對那金門市第幾級啊你們總共有5級嘛\n152332\t169691\t對5集對第3集我們金門為什麼第3集第3集是哪些縣市你告訴我台南市高雄市新竹市我們是離島欸跟台南高雄排在一起欸我們有一個那個集次的那個行之多年的一個方法對你們的標準是什麼呢\n170451\t189107\t那個如果是直轄數的話因為有6個第1集1個第2集2個第3集3個阿另外16個的話阿第3集會有5個第4集5個第5集6個我知道就是每一個集市就是我們是採相對的概念對就是555嘛我也知道你們按照3個5個5個5個\n192570\t210281\t對我是說縣市五個五個五六五六又16個縣市那你看一百年民國一百年六族成立這個各縣市這個有變化我們同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江就是馬祖都從第三級跳到第五級為什麼我們金門還是在第三級那個金門的大家也都知道\n211101\t217625\t緊問到金門也沒有借錢?都沒有借錢過我知道金門沒有借錢啊但是你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩模範生喔因為我們沒有借錢所以你們就要我們自己輸多一點啊\n228865\t249670\t不是就是那個補助款就是本來就是說比較好的我們就是比例比較少比較好的財政就補助少一點比較差的財政就補助多一點所以基本線應該把財政弄爛一點讓你們補助多一點自己少出一點比爛就對了那個是我跟各位講我們的方法如果你往上升的話我們還有獎勵措施\n251650\t277685\t你看我們110年到110年你看我們的財政狀況我們現庫存款已經從195億剩下105億我們這幾年已經減少了90億可是我跟各位講你們的累計剩餘還是那個成長財政的剩下的那個累計剩餘還是成長率還是全國第二高就是我們表現還是很好因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯我們也是努力在喝但是\n279946\t300181\t但是你可以這樣子讓我們為了為了我們自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒但是讓我們中央給我們補助款一直聞風不動的要自己出這麼多嗎?這個就好像學生如果考試考得好那老師就不給獎勵你說讓我們把他考到不要每次都考90分要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們\n302122\t321551\t我沒有讓你們說是怎麼說什麼,你們都是在第3集嘛是那個縣市對,第3集啊我們怎麼跟臺南啊高雄啊這大都會啊新竹因為我們是分成我知道,縣市,縣市就是高雄,欸那個新竹市嘛新竹有科學園區啊\n323544\t333654\t阿你們應該有很好的地理環境阿我就說阿你就夠盡都要賣救濟阿相對其他的阿因為我們沒有借錢所以我們只好自己出多一點錢來給自己地方做建設所以我們如果有救濟你就會給我們更多一點因為就會變成因為我們就可能有負債有負債就可以從3級改成4級改成5級你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎沒有沒有你講一下\n347227\t347247\t憲哥﹗\n373911\t374552\t陳玉珍陳玉珍陳玉珍\n385848\t406239\t一一三跟一一二比較的話他的成長啊是是百分之九點七那個我知道我知道我們很努力我們很努力爭取那個是你這個算是總額我說的是比例就是說一樣建設下來第三級的縣市比例補助多少啊比如他九十九十二\n406559\t429546\t我們必須把財政收支方法就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一些...主計我只是想請問你喔我們金門縣沒有那麼我們很辛苦啦我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖多兩級我們自己出的錢就是要多出很多比如他們補助90%我們要如果是馬祖跟連江同一個建設是馬祖跟這個澎湖啦同一個建設\n430126\t445473\t他們就是補助大概90他們只要自己出10%我們自己要自己出比如說18%、20%這樣很不公平啊 平平是離島很不公平啊就是因為我們金人剛好就賣不掉但因為我們很努力我們金人很努力喝啊然後你這樣子懲罰好學生 這個報告主計長這個是懲罰好學生啊\n450055\t453558\t對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員：陳玉珍．對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員．\n479778\t498431\t你看你是用近3年度決算審定的自有財源比率的平均值嘛 自有財源比率的平均值嘛我們排名第6啦 現在排名第4 要降到第6才能變成第4級嘛 就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛\n499031\t517234\t一時而後我們久的要賺少一點我們才可以中央補助多一點那你就是懲罰好學生你理解我在說什麼嗎對那個跟那個委員報告一下你剛剛不是這個意思嗎台政部有考核根據那個考核好的我們有獎勵考核不好的我們有那個是怎麼樣那個所謂的\n518715\t522657\t我只是要說在最根本的地方我們希望來解決這個問題就是我們的這個分級裡頭我們覺得說我們不能跟新竹市比\n537045\t537065\t﹚珍\n563641\t580213\t至少到第4屆這個部分你是不是幫我們思考一下不然我覺得當好學生好像一直沒有受到鼓勵啊您了解我的意思嗎我剛才講到因為是好學生所以我們的一般補助款增加的是在縣市排名是第二謝謝\n581714\t581734\t好,謝謝。\n609619\t609639\t參謀委員\n","txt":"委員好首先本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當的干涉有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告\n那在我看到你們對這個111年因為今天很多人都提很多我們全國的事情應該來講一些金門的這個相關的這個審計和主計方面的事宜111年金門縣總預算的執行結果稅率決算數是123億多是近5年的新高當然是因為我們很主動積極地爭取中央補助款\n但是受那個COVID-19那個影響捐贈和規費不如預期所以金門縣的自主財源的金額比例從40億33%比107年減少了8億多就是少了11.03%整個我們的金門縣的這個自儲財源比例就是變成近5年的這個新低顯示這是你們寫的顯示對金門對這個上級政府\n补助收入的仰賴日益生114年金門縣的稅率稅出相比短處17億多連續6年的這個巨額短處財政的這個失衡狀況就越來越嚴重了雖然我們現在是沒有債務但是我們還要付很多包括救治的公務人員退休金優惠存款例行就要付53億多對日後的財政金門縣的財政可能產生這個負擔這是你們寫的你們的這個報告\n對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長\n主計長好來那個你們有一個各直轄市和縣政府的財力及時表對吧對根據這個規定就是中央對直轄市縣政府的計劃型補助款按照這個及時表給不同的比例對吧對那金門市第幾級啊你們總共有5級嘛\n對5集對第3集我們金門為什麼第3集第3集是哪些縣市你告訴我台南市高雄市新竹市我們是離島欸跟台南高雄排在一起欸我們有一個那個集次的那個行之多年的一個方法對你們的標準是什麼呢\n那個如果是直轄數的話因為有6個第1集1個第2集2個第3集3個阿另外16個的話阿第3集會有5個第4集5個第5集6個我知道就是每一個集市就是我們是採相對的概念對就是555嘛我也知道你們按照3個5個5個5個\n對我是說縣市五個五個五六五六又16個縣市那你看一百年民國一百年六族成立這個各縣市這個有變化我們同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江就是馬祖都從第三級跳到第五級為什麼我們金門還是在第三級那個金門的大家也都知道\n緊問到金門也沒有借錢?都沒有借錢過我知道金門沒有借錢啊但是你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩模範生喔因為我們沒有借錢所以你們就要我們自己輸多一點啊\n不是就是那個補助款就是本來就是說比較好的我們就是比例比較少比較好的財政就補助少一點比較差的財政就補助多一點所以基本線應該把財政弄爛一點讓你們補助多一點自己少出一點比爛就對了那個是我跟各位講我們的方法如果你往上升的話我們還有獎勵措施\n你看我們110年到110年你看我們的財政狀況我們現庫存款已經從195億剩下105億我們這幾年已經減少了90億可是我跟各位講你們的累計剩餘還是那個成長財政的剩下的那個累計剩餘還是成長率還是全國第二高就是我們表現還是很好因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯我們也是努力在喝但是\n但是你可以這樣子讓我們為了為了我們自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒但是讓我們中央給我們補助款一直聞風不動的要自己出這麼多嗎?這個就好像學生如果考試考得好那老師就不給獎勵你說讓我們把他考到不要每次都考90分要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們\n我沒有讓你們說是怎麼說什麼,你們都是在第3集嘛是那個縣市對,第3集啊我們怎麼跟臺南啊高雄啊這大都會啊新竹因為我們是分成我知道,縣市,縣市就是高雄,欸那個新竹市嘛新竹有科學園區啊\n阿你們應該有很好的地理環境阿我就說阿你就夠盡都要賣救濟阿相對其他的阿因為我們沒有借錢所以我們只好自己出多一點錢來給自己地方做建設所以我們如果有救濟你就會給我們更多一點因為就會變成因為我們就可能有負債有負債就可以從3級改成4級改成5級你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎沒有沒有你講一下\n憲哥﹗\n陳玉珍陳玉珍陳玉珍\n一一三跟一一二比較的話他的成長啊是是百分之九點七那個我知道我知道我們很努力我們很努力爭取那個是你這個算是總額我說的是比例就是說一樣建設下來第三級的縣市比例補助多少啊比如他九十九十二\n我們必須把財政收支方法就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一些...主計我只是想請問你喔我們金門縣沒有那麼我們很辛苦啦我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖多兩級我們自己出的錢就是要多出很多比如他們補助90%我們要如果是馬祖跟連江同一個建設是馬祖跟這個澎湖啦同一個建設\n他們就是補助大概90他們只要自己出10%我們自己要自己出比如說18%、20%這樣很不公平啊 平平是離島很不公平啊就是因為我們金人剛好就賣不掉但因為我們很努力我們金人很努力喝啊然後你這樣子懲罰好學生 這個報告主計長這個是懲罰好學生啊\n對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員：陳玉珍．對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員．\n你看你是用近3年度決算審定的自有財源比率的平均值嘛 自有財源比率的平均值嘛我們排名第6啦 現在排名第4 要降到第6才能變成第4級嘛 就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛\n一時而後我們久的要賺少一點我們才可以中央補助多一點那你就是懲罰好學生你理解我在說什麼嗎對那個跟那個委員報告一下你剛剛不是這個意思嗎台政部有考核根據那個考核好的我們有獎勵考核不好的我們有那個是怎麼樣那個所謂的\n我只是要說在最根本的地方我們希望來解決這個問題就是我們的這個分級裡頭我們覺得說我們不能跟新竹市比\n﹚珍\n至少到第4屆這個部分你是不是幫我們思考一下不然我覺得當好學生好像一直沒有受到鼓勵啊您了解我的意思嗎我剛才講到因為是好學生所以我們的一般補助款增加的是在縣市排名是第二謝謝\n好,謝謝。\n參謀委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.190\n委員好首先本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當的干涉有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告\n\n00:22.742 --> 00:45.720\n那在我看到你們對這個111年因為今天很多人都提很多我們全國的事情應該來講一些金門的這個相關的這個審計和主計方面的事宜111年金門縣總預算的執行結果稅率決算數是123億多是近5年的新高當然是因為我們很主動積極地爭取中央補助款\n\n00:46.480 --> 00:56.444\n但是受那個COVID-19那個影響捐贈和規費不如預期所以金門縣的自主財源的金額比例從40億33%比107年減少了8億多就是少了11.03%整個我們的金門縣的這個自儲財源比例就是變成近5年的這個新低顯示這是你們寫的顯示對金門對這個上級政府\n\n01:13.231 --> 01:39.247\n补助收入的仰賴日益生114年金門縣的稅率稅出相比短處17億多連續6年的這個巨額短處財政的這個失衡狀況就越來越嚴重了雖然我們現在是沒有債務但是我們還要付很多包括救治的公務人員退休金優惠存款例行就要付53億多對日後的財政金門縣的財政可能產生這個負擔這是你們寫的你們的這個報告\n\n01:42.569 --> 02:03.335\n對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長\n\n02:10.526 --> 02:29.251\n主計長好來那個你們有一個各直轄市和縣政府的財力及時表對吧對根據這個規定就是中央對直轄市縣政府的計劃型補助款按照這個及時表給不同的比例對吧對那金門市第幾級啊你們總共有5級嘛\n\n02:32.332 --> 02:49.691\n對5集對第3集我們金門為什麼第3集第3集是哪些縣市你告訴我台南市高雄市新竹市我們是離島欸跟台南高雄排在一起欸我們有一個那個集次的那個行之多年的一個方法對你們的標準是什麼呢\n\n02:50.451 --> 03:09.107\n那個如果是直轄數的話因為有6個第1集1個第2集2個第3集3個阿另外16個的話阿第3集會有5個第4集5個第5集6個我知道就是每一個集市就是我們是採相對的概念對就是555嘛我也知道你們按照3個5個5個5個\n\n03:12.570 --> 03:30.281\n對我是說縣市五個五個五六五六又16個縣市那你看一百年民國一百年六族成立這個各縣市這個有變化我們同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江就是馬祖都從第三級跳到第五級為什麼我們金門還是在第三級那個金門的大家也都知道\n\n03:31.101 --> 03:37.625\n緊問到金門也沒有借錢?都沒有借錢過我知道金門沒有借錢啊但是你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩模範生喔因為我們沒有借錢所以你們就要我們自己輸多一點啊\n\n03:48.865 --> 04:09.670\n不是就是那個補助款就是本來就是說比較好的我們就是比例比較少比較好的財政就補助少一點比較差的財政就補助多一點所以基本線應該把財政弄爛一點讓你們補助多一點自己少出一點比爛就對了那個是我跟各位講我們的方法如果你往上升的話我們還有獎勵措施\n\n04:11.650 --> 04:37.685\n你看我們110年到110年你看我們的財政狀況我們現庫存款已經從195億剩下105億我們這幾年已經減少了90億可是我跟各位講你們的累計剩餘還是那個成長財政的剩下的那個累計剩餘還是成長率還是全國第二高就是我們表現還是很好因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯我們也是努力在喝但是\n\n04:39.946 --> 05:00.181\n但是你可以這樣子讓我們為了為了我們自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒但是讓我們中央給我們補助款一直聞風不動的要自己出這麼多嗎?這個就好像學生如果考試考得好那老師就不給獎勵你說讓我們把他考到不要每次都考90分要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們\n\n05:02.122 --> 05:21.551\n我沒有讓你們說是怎麼說什麼,你們都是在第3集嘛是那個縣市對,第3集啊我們怎麼跟臺南啊高雄啊這大都會啊新竹因為我們是分成我知道,縣市,縣市就是高雄,欸那個新竹市嘛新竹有科學園區啊\n\n05:23.544 --> 05:33.654\n阿你們應該有很好的地理環境阿我就說阿你就夠盡都要賣救濟阿相對其他的阿因為我們沒有借錢所以我們只好自己出多一點錢來給自己地方做建設所以我們如果有救濟你就會給我們更多一點因為就會變成因為我們就可能有負債有負債就可以從3級改成4級改成5級你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎沒有沒有你講一下\n\n05:47.227 --> 05:47.247\n憲哥﹗\n\n06:13.911 --> 06:14.552\n陳玉珍陳玉珍陳玉珍\n\n06:25.848 --> 06:46.239\n一一三跟一一二比較的話他的成長啊是是百分之九點七那個我知道我知道我們很努力我們很努力爭取那個是你這個算是總額我說的是比例就是說一樣建設下來第三級的縣市比例補助多少啊比如他九十九十二\n\n06:46.559 --> 07:09.546\n我們必須把財政收支方法就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一些...主計我只是想請問你喔我們金門縣沒有那麼我們很辛苦啦我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖多兩級我們自己出的錢就是要多出很多比如他們補助90%我們要如果是馬祖跟連江同一個建設是馬祖跟這個澎湖啦同一個建設\n\n07:10.126 --> 07:25.473\n他們就是補助大概90他們只要自己出10%我們自己要自己出比如說18%、20%這樣很不公平啊平平是離島很不公平啊就是因為我們金人剛好就賣不掉但因為我們很努力我們金人很努力喝啊然後你這樣子懲罰好學生這個報告主計長這個是懲罰好學生啊\n\n07:30.055 --> 07:33.558\n對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員：陳玉珍．對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員．\n\n07:59.778 --> 08:18.431\n你看你是用近3年度決算審定的自有財源比率的平均值嘛自有財源比率的平均值嘛我們排名第6啦現在排名第4要降到第6才能變成第4級嘛就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛\n\n08:19.031 --> 08:37.234\n一時而後我們久的要賺少一點我們才可以中央補助多一點那你就是懲罰好學生你理解我在說什麼嗎對那個跟那個委員報告一下你剛剛不是這個意思嗎台政部有考核根據那個考核好的我們有獎勵考核不好的我們有那個是怎麼樣那個所謂的\n\n08:38.715 --> 08:42.657\n我只是要說在最根本的地方我們希望來解決這個問題就是我們的這個分級裡頭我們覺得說我們不能跟新竹市比\n\n08:57.045 --> 08:57.065\n﹚珍\n\n09:23.641 --> 09:40.213\n至少到第4屆這個部分你是不是幫我們思考一下不然我覺得當好學生好像一直沒有受到鼓勵啊您了解我的意思嗎我剛才講到因為是好學生所以我們的一般補助款增加的是在縣市排名是第二謝謝\n\n09:41.714 --> 09:41.734\n好,謝謝。\n\n10:09.619 --> 10:09.639\n參謀委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.19,"text":"委員好首先本席肯定審計部長久以來有依法獨立行使審計職權不受不當的干涉有提出中央及地方縣市政府的審核決算報告"},{"start":22.742,"end":45.72,"text":"那在我看到你們對這個111年因為今天很多人都提很多我們全國的事情應該來講一些金門的這個相關的這個審計和主計方面的事宜111年金門縣總預算的執行結果稅率決算數是123億多是近5年的新高當然是因為我們很主動積極地爭取中央補助款"},{"start":46.48,"end":56.444,"text":"但是受那個COVID-19那個影響捐贈和規費不如預期所以金門縣的自主財源的金額比例從40億33%比107年減少了8億多就是少了11.03%整個我們的金門縣的這個自儲財源比例就是變成近5年的這個新低顯示這是你們寫的顯示對金門對這個上級政府"},{"start":73.231,"end":99.247,"text":"补助收入的仰賴日益生114年金門縣的稅率稅出相比短處17億多連續6年的這個巨額短處財政的這個失衡狀況就越來越嚴重了雖然我們現在是沒有債務但是我們還要付很多包括救治的公務人員退休金優惠存款例行就要付53億多對日後的財政金門縣的財政可能產生這個負擔這是你們寫的你們的這個報告"},{"start":102.569,"end":123.335,"text":"對因為那個金門雖然沒有負債但是我們觀察出來他現在每年都有短軸現在的大部分本島的縣市每年的都有大部分都開始有剩餘都已經有剩餘的金門出現反現象對就是因為財政的財政就是越來越差了他有短軸所以我們想請那個主計來談一下主計長謝謝主計長"},{"start":130.526,"end":149.251,"text":"主計長好來那個你們有一個各直轄市和縣政府的財力及時表對吧對根據這個規定就是中央對直轄市縣政府的計劃型補助款按照這個及時表給不同的比例對吧對那金門市第幾級啊你們總共有5級嘛"},{"start":152.332,"end":169.691,"text":"對5集對第3集我們金門為什麼第3集第3集是哪些縣市你告訴我台南市高雄市新竹市我們是離島欸跟台南高雄排在一起欸我們有一個那個集次的那個行之多年的一個方法對你們的標準是什麼呢"},{"start":170.451,"end":189.107,"text":"那個如果是直轄數的話因為有6個第1集1個第2集2個第3集3個阿另外16個的話阿第3集會有5個第4集5個第5集6個我知道就是每一個集市就是我們是採相對的概念對就是555嘛我也知道你們按照3個5個5個5個"},{"start":192.57,"end":210.281,"text":"對我是說縣市五個五個五六五六又16個縣市那你看一百年民國一百年六族成立這個各縣市這個有變化我們同樣是離島的澎湖跟連江就是馬祖都從第三級跳到第五級為什麼我們金門還是在第三級那個金門的大家也都知道"},{"start":211.101,"end":217.625,"text":"緊問到金門也沒有借錢?都沒有借錢過我知道金門沒有借錢啊但是你這樣子是懲罰我們這種好小孩模範生喔因為我們沒有借錢所以你們就要我們自己輸多一點啊"},{"start":228.865,"end":249.67,"text":"不是就是那個補助款就是本來就是說比較好的我們就是比例比較少比較好的財政就補助少一點比較差的財政就補助多一點所以基本線應該把財政弄爛一點讓你們補助多一點自己少出一點比爛就對了那個是我跟各位講我們的方法如果你往上升的話我們還有獎勵措施"},{"start":251.65,"end":277.685,"text":"你看我們110年到110年你看我們的財政狀況我們現庫存款已經從195億剩下105億我們這幾年已經減少了90億可是我跟各位講你們的累計剩餘還是那個成長財政的剩下的那個累計剩餘還是成長率還是全國第二高就是我們表現還是很好因為金門高粱酒還是算賣得不錯我們也是努力在喝但是"},{"start":279.946,"end":300.181,"text":"但是你可以這樣子讓我們為了為了我們自己的財政努力的喝高粱酒但是讓我們中央給我們補助款一直聞風不動的要自己出這麼多嗎?這個就好像學生如果考試考得好那老師就不給獎勵你說讓我們把他考到不要每次都考90分要考到50分這樣才會獎勵我們"},{"start":302.122,"end":321.551,"text":"我沒有讓你們說是怎麼說什麼,你們都是在第3集嘛是那個縣市對,第3集啊我們怎麼跟臺南啊高雄啊這大都會啊新竹因為我們是分成我知道,縣市,縣市就是高雄,欸那個新竹市嘛新竹有科學園區啊"},{"start":323.544,"end":333.654,"text":"阿你們應該有很好的地理環境阿我就說阿你就夠盡都要賣救濟阿相對其他的阿因為我們沒有借錢所以我們只好自己出多一點錢來給自己地方做建設所以我們如果有救濟你就會給我們更多一點因為就會變成因為我們就可能有負債有負債就可以從3級改成4級改成5級你是鼓勵我們這樣做嗎沒有沒有你講一下"},{"start":347.227,"end":347.247,"text":"憲哥﹗"},{"start":373.911,"end":374.552,"text":"陳玉珍陳玉珍陳玉珍"},{"start":385.848,"end":406.239,"text":"一一三跟一一二比較的話他的成長啊是是百分之九點七那個我知道我知道我們很努力我們很努力爭取那個是你這個算是總額我說的是比例就是說一樣建設下來第三級的縣市比例補助多少啊比如他九十九十二"},{"start":406.559,"end":429.546,"text":"我們必須把財政收支方法就是要讓窮的能夠得到更多一些...主計我只是想請問你喔我們金門縣沒有那麼我們很辛苦啦我們為什麼就是要比澎湖跟馬祖多兩級我們自己出的錢就是要多出很多比如他們補助90%我們要如果是馬祖跟連江同一個建設是馬祖跟這個澎湖啦同一個建設"},{"start":430.126,"end":445.473,"text":"他們就是補助大概90他們只要自己出10%我們自己要自己出比如說18%、20%這樣很不公平啊 平平是離島很不公平啊就是因為我們金人剛好就賣不掉但因為我們很努力我們金人很努力喝啊然後你這樣子懲罰好學生 這個報告主計長這個是懲罰好學生啊"},{"start":450.055,"end":453.558,"text":"對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員：陳玉珍．對吧?你要讓我們把財政委員．"},{"start":479.778,"end":498.431,"text":"你看你是用近3年度決算審定的自有財源比率的平均值嘛 自有財源比率的平均值嘛我們排名第6啦 現在排名第4 要降到第6才能變成第4級嘛 就是我們必須自有財源降低嘛"},{"start":499.031,"end":517.234,"text":"一時而後我們久的要賺少一點我們才可以中央補助多一點那你就是懲罰好學生你理解我在說什麼嗎對那個跟那個委員報告一下你剛剛不是這個意思嗎台政部有考核根據那個考核好的我們有獎勵考核不好的我們有那個是怎麼樣那個所謂的"},{"start":518.715,"end":522.657,"text":"我只是要說在最根本的地方我們希望來解決這個問題就是我們的這個分級裡頭我們覺得說我們不能跟新竹市比"},{"start":537.045,"end":537.065,"text":"﹚珍"},{"start":563.641,"end":580.213,"text":"至少到第4屆這個部分你是不是幫我們思考一下不然我覺得當好學生好像一直沒有受到鼓勵啊您了解我的意思嗎我剛才講到因為是好學生所以我們的一般補助款增加的是在縣市排名是第二謝謝"},{"start":581.714,"end":581.734,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":609.619,"end":609.639,"text":"參謀委員"}]}}}}