{"id":149798,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149798","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b69035a4c717baf98462333e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a60b16ca848615eb905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:44:49 - 11:49:31","影片長度":"00:04:42","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":282,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:49:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:44:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":795,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時44分）請王部長。"],["主席：來，請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我想這幾天大家都在討論，臺灣現在到底缺不缺電？"],["王部長美花：不缺電。"],["黃委員珊珊：不缺電？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：那未來會不會缺電？"],["王部長美花：所以我們台電有中長期的計畫，再增加電源來供應我們產業的需要。"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，所以缺不缺電對產業來說、對人民來說都非常地重要，但是我們也看到了，不管是晶圓廠或者是現在所謂工商大佬對於將來的AI時代，都認為其實它會是一個吃電的怪獸，而對於台積電接下來在臺灣可能還有更多的擴廠計畫，我們未來的能源配置，就是我問的，未來會不會缺電？"],["王部長美花：我們其實……"],["黃委員珊珊：如果按照他們的計畫都要做，這些都要做的話，我們的能源配置規劃配不配得上？"],["王部長美花：所以我們這幾年為什麼再新增這麼多電廠，其實我們都是事先跟廠商溝通、瞭解他們的用電需求，來增加新的電源。"],["黃委員珊珊：我來自臺北市，當時我們就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案，申請不到足夠的相關容量，台電是說它有電，但運不進來，所以要蓋變電所，現在你的電夠不夠、運不運得進來？"],["王部長美花：內湖的這一個部分委員應該也很清楚，這個跟全臺灣的電不一樣，這個就是缺少高壓變電所的部分，讓電送到內湖的部分。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以除了缺不缺電，還有電能不能送到，這些是台電很重要的任務。"],["王部長美花：這個高壓變電所……"],["黃委員珊珊：不能拖了20年，還在討論同一件事啊！部長，你懂我的意思嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有啊！所以現在臺北市政府終於讓我們可以開始蓋了，所以正在蓋。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以台電有兩個任務，第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業，不能讓它受到影響。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個是我們現在的虧損，雖然是全民買單，也有政策上的目標，但是一樣，未來的這些所謂高科技、所謂的智慧AI時代，將來的這個吃電怪獸，廠商可能也要想一想，怎麼樣讓他們在能源的配置上面能夠做出一些貢獻。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：不能單單靠政府，或者是全民幫他們一起來處理。我最近有看到一些民間的企業，他們已經開始自主發展所謂的氫能發電，也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持。部長都應該好好地來想想，這些廠商是不是在它的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以有自己的發電系統，部長覺得呢？"],["王部長美花：如果他們願意這樣做，我們都非常贊成，也會支持。"],["黃委員珊珊：你看到的OpenAI，他們在蓋晶圓廠的同時，也要在裡面做小型的核融合發電，我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題，但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠自己需要的用電，這才是我覺得將來可長可久的相關方向。"],["王部長美花：廠商如果願意自備電源的話，我們都非常樂意看到。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，所以我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取的相關鼓勵措施。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：臺灣不能沒有台積電，但是臺灣也不能只有台積電，台積電是臺灣的護國神山，但是同樣的，相關的能源，他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任，所以重點是如果可能讓廠商在廠區裡面做發電，我覺得這個是政府應該要鼓勵的。第二個是能源政策，我希望部長不管怎麼樣，在您看守的期間，對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電規劃，我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫，尤其是2025，如果真的有所謂的非核家園，你馬上要減的7%，要從哪裡補回來，這個也需要向立法院報告，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望兩個禮拜之內，給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告。"],["王部長美花：可以，是。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。"],["主席：還是請委員上臺、下臺的時候記得跟主席臺鞠躬，這是禮貌。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:08,692\n所以我們這幾年為什麼這麼多再新增電廠其實我們都是事先跟廠商做溝通瞭解他們的用電需求來增加新的電源\n\n5\n00:01:23,991 --> 00:01:40,102\n我來自臺北市,我們當時就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案,申請不到足夠的相關的它的容量。臺電是說我有電,但我運不進來,所以要蓋變電所。那現在你的電夠不夠,又不運得進來?\n\n6\n00:01:43,008 --> 00:02:02,455\n內湖的這個部分委員應該很清楚這個跟全台灣的電不一樣這個就是缺少那個高壓變電所的部分讓電送到這個內湖的部分所以除了缺不缺電還有電能不能送到這就是台電很重要的任務不能拖了20年還在討論同一件事啊\n\n7\n00:02:03,856 --> 00:02:18,513\n所以現在台北市政府終於讓我們可以開始來蓋了所以現在都在蓋所以台電有兩個任務第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業不能讓它受到影響第二個是我們現在的虧損\n\n8\n00:02:19,814 --> 00:02:36,491\n雖然是全民買單也有政策上的目標但是一樣未來的這些所謂高科技所謂的智慧AI時代將來的這個吃電怪獸廠商可能也要想一想怎麼樣讓他們能夠在能源的配置上面要做出一些貢獻吧\n\n9\n00:02:38,033 --> 00:02:52,150\n不能單單靠政府或者是全民幫大家幫他們一起來處理我最近有看到一些民間的企業他們已經開始自主發展所謂的輕能發電也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持\n\n10\n00:02:53,407 --> 00:03:07,475\n院長、部長都應該好好地來想想這些廠商他們是不是在他的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以自己有自己的發電系統?部長覺得勒?你看到的OpenAI他們已經蓋晶圓廠的同時他們也要在裡面做所謂的小型的合融合的發電\n\n11\n00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:43,098\n我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠他們自己需要的用電這才是我覺得將來可以可長可久的相關的方向廠商如果會願意自備電源的話我們是都非常樂意所以部長我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取相關鼓勵的措施所以臺灣不能沒有台積電但是臺灣也不能只有台積電\n\n12\n00:03:44,119 --> 00:04:11,226\n台積電是臺灣的護國神山但是同樣的相關的能源他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任所以重點是如果可能有廠商在廠區裡面做發電我覺得這是政府應該要鼓勵的第二個就是能源政策希望部長不管怎麼樣在您看守的期間我們希望對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電的規劃我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫\n\n13\n00:04:12,846 --> 00:04:27,199\n尤其是2025如果真的有所謂的非核家園你馬上撿的7%要從哪裡補回來這個也需要向立法院來報告我希望兩個禮拜之內給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告還是請一下委員上台下台的時候記得跟主席抬鞠躬這是禮貌\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n649\t26339\t請黃珊珊委員發言。是,請問部長。來,請部長。好,問你好。是,是,部長。我想這幾天大家都在討論台灣現在到底缺不缺電。不缺電。不缺電。對。所以不缺電未來\n27911\t38860\t會不會缺電?所以我們臺電有很中長期的計畫在增加電源來供我們產業的需要是,所以對於缺不缺電對產業來說對人民來說都非常的重要\n41813\t65409\t但是我們也看到了接下來剛講的不管是晶圓廠或者是現在所謂工商大佬都在對於將來我看到你們的報告裡面將來的AI時代其實它會是一個吃電的怪獸而現在對於台積電接下去在台灣可能還有更多的擴廠計畫我們未來的能源配置就是我問的未來會不會缺電\n67350\t68692\t所以我們這幾年為什麼這麼多再新增電廠其實我們都是事先跟廠商做溝通瞭解他們的用電需求來增加新的電源\n83991\t100102\t我來自臺北市,我們當時就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案,申請不到足夠的相關的它的容量。臺電是說我有電,但我運不進來,所以要蓋變電所。那現在你的電夠不夠,又不運得進來?\n103008\t122455\t內湖的這個部分委員應該很清楚 這個跟全台灣的電不一樣 這個就是缺少那個高壓變電所的部分 讓電送到這個內湖的部分所以除了缺不缺電 還有電能不能送到 這就是台電很重要的任務 不能拖了20年還在討論同一件事啊\n123856\t138513\t所以現在台北市政府終於讓我們可以開始來蓋了所以現在都在蓋所以台電有兩個任務第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業不能讓它受到影響第二個是我們現在的虧損\n139814\t156491\t雖然是全民買單也有政策上的目標但是一樣未來的這些所謂高科技所謂的智慧AI時代將來的這個吃電怪獸廠商可能也要想一想怎麼樣讓他們能夠在能源的配置上面要做出一些貢獻吧\n158033\t172150\t不能單單靠政府或者是全民幫大家幫他們一起來處理我最近有看到一些民間的企業他們已經開始自主發展所謂的輕能發電也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持\n173407\t187475\t院長、部長都應該好好地來想想這些廠商他們是不是在他的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以自己有自己的發電系統?部長覺得勒?你看到的Open AI他們已經蓋晶圓廠的同時他們也要在裡面做所謂的小型的合融合的發電\n195260\t223098\t我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠他們自己需要的用電這才是我覺得將來可以可長可久的相關的方向廠商如果會願意自備電源的話我們是都非常樂意所以部長我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取相關鼓勵的措施所以臺灣不能沒有台積電但是臺灣也不能只有台積電\n224119\t251226\t台積電是臺灣的護國神山但是同樣的相關的能源他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任所以重點是如果可能有廠商在廠區裡面做發電我覺得這是政府應該要鼓勵的第二個就是能源政策希望部長不管怎麼樣在您看守的期間我們希望對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電的規劃我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫\n252846\t267199\t尤其是2025如果真的有所謂的非核家園你馬上撿的7%要從哪裡補回來這個也需要向立法院來報告我希望兩個禮拜之內給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告還是請一下委員上台下台的時候記得跟主席抬鞠躬這是禮貌\n","txt":"請黃珊珊委員發言。是,請問部長。來,請部長。好,問你好。是,是,部長。我想這幾天大家都在討論台灣現在到底缺不缺電。不缺電。不缺電。對。所以不缺電未來\n會不會缺電?所以我們臺電有很中長期的計畫在增加電源來供我們產業的需要是,所以對於缺不缺電對產業來說對人民來說都非常的重要\n但是我們也看到了接下來剛講的不管是晶圓廠或者是現在所謂工商大佬都在對於將來我看到你們的報告裡面將來的AI時代其實它會是一個吃電的怪獸而現在對於台積電接下去在台灣可能還有更多的擴廠計畫我們未來的能源配置就是我問的未來會不會缺電\n所以我們這幾年為什麼這麼多再新增電廠其實我們都是事先跟廠商做溝通瞭解他們的用電需求來增加新的電源\n我來自臺北市,我們當時就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案,申請不到足夠的相關的它的容量。臺電是說我有電,但我運不進來,所以要蓋變電所。那現在你的電夠不夠,又不運得進來?\n內湖的這個部分委員應該很清楚 這個跟全台灣的電不一樣 這個就是缺少那個高壓變電所的部分 讓電送到這個內湖的部分所以除了缺不缺電 還有電能不能送到 這就是台電很重要的任務 不能拖了20年還在討論同一件事啊\n所以現在台北市政府終於讓我們可以開始來蓋了所以現在都在蓋所以台電有兩個任務第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業不能讓它受到影響第二個是我們現在的虧損\n雖然是全民買單也有政策上的目標但是一樣未來的這些所謂高科技所謂的智慧AI時代將來的這個吃電怪獸廠商可能也要想一想怎麼樣讓他們能夠在能源的配置上面要做出一些貢獻吧\n不能單單靠政府或者是全民幫大家幫他們一起來處理我最近有看到一些民間的企業他們已經開始自主發展所謂的輕能發電也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持\n院長、部長都應該好好地來想想這些廠商他們是不是在他的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以自己有自己的發電系統?部長覺得勒?你看到的Open AI他們已經蓋晶圓廠的同時他們也要在裡面做所謂的小型的合融合的發電\n我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠他們自己需要的用電這才是我覺得將來可以可長可久的相關的方向廠商如果會願意自備電源的話我們是都非常樂意所以部長我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取相關鼓勵的措施所以臺灣不能沒有台積電但是臺灣也不能只有台積電\n台積電是臺灣的護國神山但是同樣的相關的能源他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任所以重點是如果可能有廠商在廠區裡面做發電我覺得這是政府應該要鼓勵的第二個就是能源政策希望部長不管怎麼樣在您看守的期間我們希望對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電的規劃我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫\n尤其是2025如果真的有所謂的非核家園你馬上撿的7%要從哪裡補回來這個也需要向立法院來報告我希望兩個禮拜之內給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告還是請一下委員上台下台的時候記得跟主席抬鞠躬這是禮貌\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.649 --> 00:26.339\n請黃珊珊委員發言。是,請問部長。來,請部長。好,問你好。是,是,部長。我想這幾天大家都在討論台灣現在到底缺不缺電。不缺電。不缺電。對。所以不缺電未來\n\n00:27.911 --> 00:38.860\n會不會缺電?所以我們臺電有很中長期的計畫在增加電源來供我們產業的需要是,所以對於缺不缺電對產業來說對人民來說都非常的重要\n\n00:41.813 --> 01:05.409\n但是我們也看到了接下來剛講的不管是晶圓廠或者是現在所謂工商大佬都在對於將來我看到你們的報告裡面將來的AI時代其實它會是一個吃電的怪獸而現在對於台積電接下去在台灣可能還有更多的擴廠計畫我們未來的能源配置就是我問的未來會不會缺電\n\n01:07.350 --> 01:08.692\n所以我們這幾年為什麼這麼多再新增電廠其實我們都是事先跟廠商做溝通瞭解他們的用電需求來增加新的電源\n\n01:23.991 --> 01:40.102\n我來自臺北市,我們當時就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案,申請不到足夠的相關的它的容量。臺電是說我有電,但我運不進來,所以要蓋變電所。那現在你的電夠不夠,又不運得進來?\n\n01:43.008 --> 02:02.455\n內湖的這個部分委員應該很清楚這個跟全台灣的電不一樣這個就是缺少那個高壓變電所的部分讓電送到這個內湖的部分所以除了缺不缺電還有電能不能送到這就是台電很重要的任務不能拖了20年還在討論同一件事啊\n\n02:03.856 --> 02:18.513\n所以現在台北市政府終於讓我們可以開始來蓋了所以現在都在蓋所以台電有兩個任務第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業不能讓它受到影響第二個是我們現在的虧損\n\n02:19.814 --> 02:36.491\n雖然是全民買單也有政策上的目標但是一樣未來的這些所謂高科技所謂的智慧AI時代將來的這個吃電怪獸廠商可能也要想一想怎麼樣讓他們能夠在能源的配置上面要做出一些貢獻吧\n\n02:38.033 --> 02:52.150\n不能單單靠政府或者是全民幫大家幫他們一起來處理我最近有看到一些民間的企業他們已經開始自主發展所謂的輕能發電也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持\n\n02:53.407 --> 03:07.475\n院長、部長都應該好好地來想想這些廠商他們是不是在他的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以自己有自己的發電系統?部長覺得勒?你看到的OpenAI他們已經蓋晶圓廠的同時他們也要在裡面做所謂的小型的合融合的發電\n\n03:15.260 --> 03:43.098\n我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠他們自己需要的用電這才是我覺得將來可以可長可久的相關的方向廠商如果會願意自備電源的話我們是都非常樂意所以部長我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取相關鼓勵的措施所以臺灣不能沒有台積電但是臺灣也不能只有台積電\n\n03:44.119 --> 04:11.226\n台積電是臺灣的護國神山但是同樣的相關的能源他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任所以重點是如果可能有廠商在廠區裡面做發電我覺得這是政府應該要鼓勵的第二個就是能源政策希望部長不管怎麼樣在您看守的期間我們希望對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電的規劃我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫\n\n04:12.846 --> 04:27.199\n尤其是2025如果真的有所謂的非核家園你馬上撿的7%要從哪裡補回來這個也需要向立法院來報告我希望兩個禮拜之內給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告還是請一下委員上台下台的時候記得跟主席抬鞠躬這是禮貌\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.649,"end":26.339,"text":"請黃珊珊委員發言。是,請問部長。來,請部長。好,問你好。是,是,部長。我想這幾天大家都在討論台灣現在到底缺不缺電。不缺電。不缺電。對。所以不缺電未來"},{"start":27.911,"end":38.86,"text":"會不會缺電?所以我們臺電有很中長期的計畫在增加電源來供我們產業的需要是,所以對於缺不缺電對產業來說對人民來說都非常的重要"},{"start":41.813,"end":65.409,"text":"但是我們也看到了接下來剛講的不管是晶圓廠或者是現在所謂工商大佬都在對於將來我看到你們的報告裡面將來的AI時代其實它會是一個吃電的怪獸而現在對於台積電接下去在台灣可能還有更多的擴廠計畫我們未來的能源配置就是我問的未來會不會缺電"},{"start":67.35,"end":68.692,"text":"所以我們這幾年為什麼這麼多再新增電廠其實我們都是事先跟廠商做溝通瞭解他們的用電需求來增加新的電源"},{"start":83.991,"end":100.102,"text":"我來自臺北市,我們當時就有發生臺北市東區門戶計畫的新建案,申請不到足夠的相關的它的容量。臺電是說我有電,但我運不進來,所以要蓋變電所。那現在你的電夠不夠,又不運得進來?"},{"start":103.008,"end":122.455,"text":"內湖的這個部分委員應該很清楚 這個跟全台灣的電不一樣 這個就是缺少那個高壓變電所的部分 讓電送到這個內湖的部分所以除了缺不缺電 還有電能不能送到 這就是台電很重要的任務 不能拖了20年還在討論同一件事啊"},{"start":123.856,"end":138.513,"text":"所以現在台北市政府終於讓我們可以開始來蓋了所以現在都在蓋所以台電有兩個任務第一個要把電足額的送到相關的產業不能讓它受到影響第二個是我們現在的虧損"},{"start":139.814,"end":156.491,"text":"雖然是全民買單也有政策上的目標但是一樣未來的這些所謂高科技所謂的智慧AI時代將來的這個吃電怪獸廠商可能也要想一想怎麼樣讓他們能夠在能源的配置上面要做出一些貢獻吧"},{"start":158.033,"end":172.15,"text":"不能單單靠政府或者是全民幫大家幫他們一起來處理我最近有看到一些民間的企業他們已經開始自主發展所謂的輕能發電也希望能夠得到經濟部的支持"},{"start":173.407,"end":187.475,"text":"院長、部長都應該好好地來想想這些廠商他們是不是在他的院區裡面、廠區裡面就可以自己有自己的發電系統?部長覺得勒?你看到的Open AI他們已經蓋晶圓廠的同時他們也要在裡面做所謂的小型的合融合的發電"},{"start":195.26,"end":223.098,"text":"我想核能在臺灣還是一個爭議的話題但是這是一個可以考慮讓民眾不用擔負這些大廠他們自己需要的用電這才是我覺得將來可以可長可久的相關的方向廠商如果會願意自備電源的話我們是都非常樂意所以部長我覺得這個是將來政策上面也要採取相關鼓勵的措施所以臺灣不能沒有台積電但是臺灣也不能只有台積電"},{"start":224.119,"end":251.226,"text":"台積電是臺灣的護國神山但是同樣的相關的能源他們也應該要跟我們大家一起來承擔相關的責任所以重點是如果可能有廠商在廠區裡面做發電我覺得這是政府應該要鼓勵的第二個就是能源政策希望部長不管怎麼樣在您看守的期間我們希望對未來剛剛講的這些配置上面的用電的規劃我覺得現在就要提出未來10年到20年的計畫"},{"start":252.846,"end":267.199,"text":"尤其是2025如果真的有所謂的非核家園你馬上撿的7%要從哪裡補回來這個也需要向立法院來報告我希望兩個禮拜之內給我一個完整的相關電力配置的報告還是請一下委員上台下台的時候記得跟主席抬鞠躬這是禮貌"}]}}}}