{"id":149802,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149802","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903cd3014190d6618d314b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a6268cb4a8a8bd5f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:44:15 - 11:53:22","影片長度":"00:09:07","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":547,"end_time":"2024-03-13T11:53:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T11:44:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":907,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時44分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：伍委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。如您所知道的，從今年1月起，農業部的老農津貼又調高了，也就是說，從91年4,000元，到今年可以領到8,080元。在農保條例第五條有特別談到，除了農會的會員之外，只要年滿15歲以上，沒有領取各種相關社會保險老年給付，都可以來參加農保。以我們原住民來講，我們最喜歡的就是農保，有哪一些相關的保險呢？像沒有公保，沒有勞保，沒有軍保，或者是沒有國民年金。","我會問這個問題是因為有一個案例，那後來發現這樣的人很多，還真不少。以這個老人家為例，他是民國31年出生，在他41歲的時候，那個時候經濟起飛，很多原住民都到都會區去工作，他是去做吃的，參加了廚師工會，後來年紀大了他就要回家鄉，那個時候工會就跟他說可以結清勞保，領取一次性的老年給付，他也很高興，領回去之後一直到現在，他已經82歲了，他一直都在務農，種芒果，其實收入也不高，最慘的是他什麼老年給付都沒有，那他非常羨慕，經常去問。事實上，這些都是長者，我要講的是很老的。","我們來看一下，部長，這邊有一個調查是「臺灣原住民族經濟狀況調查」，這是去年（112年）6月底的資料，您可以看到，我們原住民從事農林漁牧業是占最高，當然從事營建工程的也很多，兩個不相上下。另外，它也提到，我們主要負責維持家計、生計的是60歲以上，也就是說，對原住民族群來講，到60歲以後都還需要繼續工作，繼續承擔家裡的主要生計，所以我想要請教一下部長，您聽到這樣的案例，而且還真不少，我講的是老人家，您覺得他該不該領取老農津貼？他沒有任何的社會保險，他務農。"],["許部長銘春：他務農，沒有任何社會保險？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：沒有，這樣的長者還真不少。"],["許部長銘春：他有沒有領過老年給付？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：他就是那個時候離開工會。"],["許部長銘春：應該有領過老年給付。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，他領完了。"],["許部長銘春：如果按照現在法令的規定，他有領過老年給付的話，他就沒有辦法請領。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：沒辦法？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以他二、三十年來都沒有任何給付。我要講的是說，如果我們用他當時的投保薪資，他當年工作的時候是1萬……"],["許部長銘春：委員，這個是老農津貼的問題，應該是要問農業部。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，沒有關係，我現在就是要來問您。以他當時的投保薪資去算的話，他是做了15年，所以他當年是一次領了23萬多，後來我們去看一下，這個當事人當時是56歲退嘛！所以他目前的狀況，如果他可以去領老農津貼，大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬；如果以他現在82歲，他已經可以領將近150萬；如果以原住民的平均餘命，我們目前平均餘命是78歲，他也可以領到112萬多。","好，現在我們來看一下，因為我們的農保條例告訴他，如果要去請領老農津貼，他其實所有的條件都符合，唯一一個條件不符合就是要持續加保。他曾經參加過農保，他回來之後也是繼續務農，但是他有一個條件不符合，就是要持續加保，所以他也跑去農會一直要加保，可是農會告訴他，在這邊有寫，說他已領取老年給付，請於條例修正後再參加農保，所以部長，您就知道為什麼我要來請教您。","部長，我去年10月也曾經到農業部問過農業部部長，現在同樣的問題我也要請教你，為什麼？您聽聽看，農業部長當時是這麼說：「對，他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的。我們會後去看這部分是否真正的具有公平性，如果是有公平性，我們會解釋，如果是屬於被遺漏的一群，相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理，如果是以農業部相關的規定，農業部會草擬」，這個是當時農業部長說的，所以您也同意嗎？後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說，只要勞動部同意他繳回當時的老年給付就可以，那我就要請教部長，您的意見如何？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個是我們法令的規定，我沒有辦法說支不支持，因為現在法令規定就是你領了之後，核付了以後就不能變更，所以沒有所謂我可以收回，然後他再另外去保農保的問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以現在……"],["許部長銘春：我的意思是說，這個問題應該不在我，現在應該是說他已經領完老年給付之後，那一邊願不願意讓他再去加保的問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：不是。部長，因為農業部有農保條例，現在我再翻回農保條例，我再唸一次給您聽，在農保條例第五條第二款，「非前項農會會員，年滿十五歲以上從事農業工作之農民，未領取相關社會保險老年給付者，得參加本保險」，現在農會就是根據這個農保條例來告訴他，可能要等修法之後才可以回來參加農保。","現在農業部也覺得他們是被漏接的一群，也願意來研擬，結果他們提供的意見是，勞動部這邊針對一次性老年給付，如果他願意繳回去，你們可不可以讓這樣的長者……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個沒有辦法用函釋來解決哦！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["許部長銘春：這個是法令的明文規定哦！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那您認為要怎麼修？"],["許部長銘春：如果這個制度可以改來改去，這會影響到我們勞保的制度還有財務的穩定耶！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以部長，我現在就是要請您盤點一下，估算65歲以上沒有足夠的老年給付，而且沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數，我希望您會同農業部一起去共商，然後研商可行的方案，讓勞保投保年資或老年結算金額過低的農民可以繳回，這是我的解方，也是農業部的一個解方啦！讓他可以回復農保資格。","我今天會來是希望勞動部可以會同農業部在兩個月以內提出說明，如果你們有開會的話，也希望可以通知我，這樣可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：好，但是這個是法令的規範，沒關係啦！委員，我們會跟農業部來……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為他們的確是被漏接的一群，而且我希望去算一下，其實這樣的人不多，因為有的……"],["許部長銘春：不是多不多的問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：像年輕的，他其實可以去國民年金那邊，但是像這樣的長者是沒有辦法，因為他已經過了年紀，好不好？"],["主席：是不是請勞動部會後再跟伍委員說明？"],["許部長銘春：好，我們再跟委員說明。"],["伍麗華Saidhai 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00:00:10,783\n謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起農業部的這個\n\n2\n00:00:24,156 --> 00:00:44,456\n老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外\n\n3\n00:00:45,957 --> 00:01:07,690\n只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金\n\n4\n00:01:08,570 --> 00:01:33,909\n那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例吼那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會\n\n5\n00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:51,149\n那後來年紀大了齁他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說欸你可以結親老寶齁領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了齁他一直都在務農種芒果\n\n6\n00:01:54,753 --> 00:02:11,361\n那其實收入也不高可是最慘的是他什麼幾父老年幾父都沒有那他非常的羨慕那經常的去問那事實上這些都是長者我要講的是很老的那我們來看一下部長這邊有一個調查\n\n7\n00:02:13,982 --> 00:02:39,081\n台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上\n\n8\n00:02:42,543 --> 00:03:03,499\n也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農\n\n9\n00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:28,715\n沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠公會對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有\n\n10\n00:03:30,497 --> 00:03:48,696\n額領過老年給付的話他就沒有辦法請沒辦法對所以他二三十年來都沒有任何所以我要講的是說他當時如果我們用他當時的投保薪資就是他當年工作的時候是一萬二十委員這個是老農津貼的問題\n\n11\n00:03:50,037 --> 00:04:07,484\n是是我我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是後來呢我們去看一下他當時是56歲退嘛\n\n12\n00:04:10,825 --> 00:04:32,905\n所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬如果以他現在他82歲他已經可以領將近150萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命是78歲他也可以領到112萬多好\n\n13\n00:04:35,427 --> 00:05:01,563\n那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去勤領農津貼他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫\n\n14\n00:05:04,145 --> 00:05:21,250\n他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對\n\n15\n00:05:28,792 --> 00:05:54,027\n他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說\n\n16\n00:05:54,907 --> 00:06:21,555\n只要勞動後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後和夫人要就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他在另外去\n\n17\n00:06:22,295 --> 00:06:23,477\n不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例\n\n18\n00:06:39,349 --> 00:06:59,140\n那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次齁他在農保條例第5條第二款齁非前項農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎\n\n19\n00:07:01,035 --> 00:07:28,582\n那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說我這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來演你就他們演你呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意\n\n20\n00:07:29,702 --> 00:07:39,057\n叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修\n\n21\n00:07:48,279 --> 00:08:10,635\n所以部長我現在就是要請您盤點請您盤點一下齁估算65歲以上如果他沒有足夠的老年給付沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數齁我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商齁然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年\n\n22\n00:08:11,195 --> 00:08:11,215\n好\n\n23\n00:08:34,793 --> 00:08:36,653\n謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n24\n00:09:04,625 --> 00:09:04,787\n謝謝伍麗華委員接下來請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8841\t10783\t謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起農業部的這個\n24156\t44456\t老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外\n45957\t67690\t只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金\n68570\t93909\t那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例吼那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會\n95310\t111149\t那後來年紀大了齁他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說欸你可以結親老寶齁領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了齁他一直都在務農種芒果\n114753\t131361\t那其實收入也不高可是最慘的是他什麼幾父老年幾父都沒有那他非常的羨慕那經常的去問那事實上這些都是長者我要講的是很老的那我們來看一下部長這邊有一個調查\n133982\t159081\t台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上\n162543\t183499\t也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農\n191000\t208715\t沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠公會對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有\n210497\t228696\t額領過老年給付的話他就沒有辦法請沒辦法對所以他二三十年來都沒有任何所以我要講的是說他當時如果我們用他當時的投保薪資就是他當年工作的時候是一萬二十委員這個是老農津貼的問題\n230037\t247484\t是是我我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是後來呢我們去看一下他當時是56歲退嘛\n250825\t272905\t所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬如果以他現在他82歲他已經可以領將近150萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命是78歲他也可以領到112萬多好\n275427\t301563\t那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去勤領農津貼他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫\n304145\t321250\t他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對\n328792\t354027\t他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說\n354907\t381555\t只要勞動後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後和夫人要就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他在另外去\n382295\t383477\t不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例\n399349\t419140\t那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次齁他在農保條例第5條第二款齁非前項農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎\n421035\t448582\t那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說我這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來演你就他們演你呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意\n449702\t459057\t叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修\n468279\t490635\t所以部長我現在就是要請您盤點請您盤點一下齁估算65歲以上如果他沒有足夠的老年給付沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數齁我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商齁然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年\n491195\t491215\t好\n514793\t516653\t謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n544625\t544787\t謝謝伍麗華委員接下來請\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起農業部的這個\n老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外\n只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金\n那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例吼那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會\n那後來年紀大了齁他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說欸你可以結親老寶齁領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了齁他一直都在務農種芒果\n那其實收入也不高可是最慘的是他什麼幾父老年幾父都沒有那他非常的羨慕那經常的去問那事實上這些都是長者我要講的是很老的那我們來看一下部長這邊有一個調查\n台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上\n也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農\n沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠公會對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有\n額領過老年給付的話他就沒有辦法請沒辦法對所以他二三十年來都沒有任何所以我要講的是說他當時如果我們用他當時的投保薪資就是他當年工作的時候是一萬二十委員這個是老農津貼的問題\n是是我我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是後來呢我們去看一下他當時是56歲退嘛\n所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬如果以他現在他82歲他已經可以領將近150萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命是78歲他也可以領到112萬多好\n那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去勤領農津貼他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫\n他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對\n他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說\n只要勞動後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後和夫人要就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他在另外去\n不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例\n那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次齁他在農保條例第5條第二款齁非前項農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎\n那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說我這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來演你就他們演你呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意\n叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修\n所以部長我現在就是要請您盤點請您盤點一下齁估算65歲以上如果他沒有足夠的老年給付沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數齁我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商齁然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年\n好\n謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n謝謝伍麗華委員接下來請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.841 --> 00:10.783\n謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起農業部的這個\n\n00:24.156 --> 00:44.456\n老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外\n\n00:45.957 --> 01:07.690\n只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金\n\n01:08.570 --> 01:33.909\n那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例吼那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會\n\n01:35.310 --> 01:51.149\n那後來年紀大了齁他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說欸你可以結親老寶齁領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了齁他一直都在務農種芒果\n\n01:54.753 --> 02:11.361\n那其實收入也不高可是最慘的是他什麼幾父老年幾父都沒有那他非常的羨慕那經常的去問那事實上這些都是長者我要講的是很老的那我們來看一下部長這邊有一個調查\n\n02:13.982 --> 02:39.081\n台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上\n\n02:42.543 --> 03:03.499\n也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農\n\n03:11.000 --> 03:28.715\n沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠公會對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有\n\n03:30.497 --> 03:48.696\n額領過老年給付的話他就沒有辦法請沒辦法對所以他二三十年來都沒有任何所以我要講的是說他當時如果我們用他當時的投保薪資就是他當年工作的時候是一萬二十委員這個是老農津貼的問題\n\n03:50.037 --> 04:07.484\n是是我我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是後來呢我們去看一下他當時是56歲退嘛\n\n04:10.825 --> 04:32.905\n所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬如果以他現在他82歲他已經可以領將近150萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命是78歲他也可以領到112萬多好\n\n04:35.427 --> 05:01.563\n那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去勤領農津貼他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫\n\n05:04.145 --> 05:21.250\n他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對\n\n05:28.792 --> 05:54.027\n他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說\n\n05:54.907 --> 06:21.555\n只要勞動後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後和夫人要就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他在另外去\n\n06:22.295 --> 06:23.477\n不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例\n\n06:39.349 --> 06:59.140\n那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次齁他在農保條例第5條第二款齁非前項農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎\n\n07:01.035 --> 07:28.582\n那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說我這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來演你就他們演你呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意\n\n07:29.702 --> 07:39.057\n叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修\n\n07:48.279 --> 08:10.635\n所以部長我現在就是要請您盤點請您盤點一下齁估算65歲以上如果他沒有足夠的老年給付沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數齁我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商齁然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年\n\n08:11.195 --> 08:11.215\n好\n\n08:34.793 --> 08:36.653\n謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n09:04.625 --> 09:04.787\n謝謝伍麗華委員接下來請\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.841,"end":10.783,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起農業部的這個"},{"start":24.156,"end":44.456,"text":"老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外"},{"start":45.957,"end":67.69,"text":"只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金"},{"start":68.57,"end":93.909,"text":"那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例吼那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會"},{"start":95.31,"end":111.149,"text":"那後來年紀大了齁他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說欸你可以結親老寶齁領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了齁他一直都在務農種芒果"},{"start":114.753,"end":131.361,"text":"那其實收入也不高可是最慘的是他什麼幾父老年幾父都沒有那他非常的羨慕那經常的去問那事實上這些都是長者我要講的是很老的那我們來看一下部長這邊有一個調查"},{"start":133.982,"end":159.081,"text":"台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上"},{"start":162.543,"end":183.499,"text":"也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農"},{"start":191,"end":208.715,"text":"沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠公會對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有"},{"start":210.497,"end":228.696,"text":"額領過老年給付的話他就沒有辦法請沒辦法對所以他二三十年來都沒有任何所以我要講的是說他當時如果我們用他當時的投保薪資就是他當年工作的時候是一萬二十委員這個是老農津貼的問題"},{"start":230.037,"end":247.484,"text":"是是我我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是後來呢我們去看一下他當時是56歲退嘛"},{"start":250.825,"end":272.905,"text":"所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬如果以他現在他82歲他已經可以領將近150萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命是78歲他也可以領到112萬多好"},{"start":275.427,"end":301.563,"text":"那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去勤領農津貼他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫"},{"start":304.145,"end":321.25,"text":"他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對"},{"start":328.792,"end":354.027,"text":"他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說"},{"start":354.907,"end":381.555,"text":"只要勞動後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後和夫人要就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他在另外去"},{"start":382.295,"end":383.477,"text":"不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例"},{"start":399.349,"end":419.14,"text":"那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次齁他在農保條例第5條第二款齁非前項農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎"},{"start":421.035,"end":448.582,"text":"那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說我這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來演你就他們演你呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意"},{"start":449.702,"end":459.057,"text":"叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修"},{"start":468.279,"end":490.635,"text":"所以部長我現在就是要請您盤點請您盤點一下齁估算65歲以上如果他沒有足夠的老年給付沒有辦法再加入農保的農民人數齁我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商齁然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年"},{"start":491.195,"end":491.215,"text":"好"},{"start":514.793,"end":516.653,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":544.625,"end":544.787,"text":"謝謝伍麗華委員接下來請"}]}}}}