{"id":149806,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b69030417f7138f9937dc33e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a607257f5fd76a241a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"12:04:41 - 12:10:17","影片長度":"00:05:36","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":336,"end_time":"2024-03-13T12:10:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T12:04:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":924,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（12時4分）主席，請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：本席是民眾黨幹事長吳春城，民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊和興利，所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌砲火猛烈，就是為了除弊，而本席要和部長提的是興利的問題，所以部長不要太緊張。因為本席非常關注高齡化社會的議題，所以要請部長思考，當長壽時代來臨，經濟部的角色是什麼？因為本席發現各部會都沒有準備好迎接長壽時代，所以本席今天要和部長討論的是，如何讓扶養比的分子變分母。","經濟部一定很關注扶養比的問題，請問部長，分子就是被扶養的人，分母就是工作人口，因為少子化，所以工作人口越來越少，分母也就越來越小，而因為高齡化，所以分子越來越大。是不是這樣？"],["王部長美花：是的。"],["吳委員春城：目前是四比一，四個人扶養一個人，到2041年會變成二比一，負擔非常沈重，接下來會是一比一，這樣一直發展下去，分子會大於分母，到時候就是崩潰的時代，臺灣整個要崩潰了。請問部長，這個問題有什麼解套的方法？現在我們為這件事情做了什麼準備？"],["王部長美花：這確實是一個大議題，很多東亞國家也面臨這樣的嚴重議題，政府確實應該從很多方向解決這個問題。"],["吳委員春城：部長也同意這是一個很嚴重的問題，但是看起來政府並沒有什麼好方法。本席要和大家分享，這次本席到立院要提的就是壯世代，有一個方法，就是讓分子壯起來，把分子拉下來當分母。我們現在有一個很大的問題，就是未來高壽的人會占人口的一半，但是現在政府都弱化他們，而且你們也沒有辦法提高生育率，因為少子化，有一天分子一定會大於分母，整個臺灣就會崩潰。","本席知道，其實經濟部也有注意到這個問題，所以也在鼓勵高齡就業，就是藉由中小企業發展條例第三十六條，鼓勵企業提高僱用中高齡及高齡者的比例。本席要請問部長，這個條例的立意當然很好，但本席覺得沒有切中重點，因為這個辦法是鼓勵、獎勵僱用45歲以上的員工，就能有租稅優惠150%。但是請部長看一下這張圖，45歲到49歲，臺灣的勞參率有85%，其實和各國沒有太大差異，50歲到54歲之間是76.3%，也沒有太大的差異。","我們真的開始落後各國的是55歲以上的部分，我們只剩下59%，60歲以上是39%，65歲以上只有9.6%。所以如果按照你們這個辦法，企業都是聘用45歲的，沒有人要聘用55歲、65歲的人，這樣根本就沒有解決問題。本席在這裡建議，因為本席知道經濟部有提出這方面的政策，就是除了45歲以上有租稅優惠外，其他年齡段也要有等距的優惠，這樣才能更加獎勵企業。","目前經濟部的版本是增加僱用45歲以上的，可以有租稅優惠150%，可不可以再增加？例如僱用65歲以上的，租稅優惠可以到250%，因為我們這個問題太嚴重了。65歲以上的勞參率，韓國有百分之三十點多，我們只有百分之九點多，如果按照你們現在的辦法，這個問題是無法解決的。這一點部長是否可以接受？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。我們的草案現在還在徵詢意見當中，委員這個意見，我們會回去檢討一下。"],["吳委員春城：好的。部長可以考慮嗎？"],["王部長美花：是的，我們可以檢討一下。"],["吳委員春城：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員。","接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 116.222, \"text\": \"市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 112.22, \"end\": 112.58, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 112.58, \"end\": 112.64, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 112.64, \"end\": 112.76, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 112.76, \"end\": 112.86, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 112.86, \"end\": 113.06, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 113.06, \"end\": 114.061, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 114.061, \"end\": 114.441, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 114.441, \"end\": 115.381, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 115.381, \"end\": 115.641, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 115.641, \"end\": 115.801, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 115.801, \"end\": 115.901, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": 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00:00:42,388\n部長好,我是民眾黨的幹事長吳春城民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊跟新利所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌這個炮轟門裂就是要除弊\n\n3\n00:00:43,024 --> 00:01:05,957\n但是我要跟部長提的是心力啦所以部長不要太緊張我們談的是一個心力的問題那我要因為我非常關注這個高齡化社會的議題那我要請部長就是來思考長壽時代來臨經濟部的角色是什麼\n\n4\n00:01:07,581 --> 00:01:25,759\n因為我發現我們各部會都沒有準備好這個迎接長壽的這個計畫所以我今天跟部長來討論的是如何讓扶養比的分子變分母我想經濟部一定很關注這一個扶養比的問題\n\n5\n00:01:27,605 --> 00:01:50,557\n問部長,分子就是被撫養的人,分母就是在工作的人口。因為少子化,所以工作的人口越來越小,分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大,是不是這樣子?\n\n6\n00:01:52,220 --> 00:01:56,222\n市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?\n\n7\n00:02:20,690 --> 00:02:43,987\n確實這個是一個大的議題那很多的東亞國家也都面臨這樣的一個嚴重的議題那政府的這個部分確實應該很多的方面來解決這樣一個問題要從很多方面是其實對部長也同意這是一個嚴重的問題但是呢看起來我們都沒有什麼很好的方法\n\n8\n00:02:46,345 --> 00:02:56,688\n那我要跟大家跟這個就是這次我不到立委員來提的就叫壯時代有一個方法就是讓分子壯起來把分子拉下來當分母\n\n9\n00:02:59,591 --> 00:03:16,577\n我們現在很大的問題就是未來高壽的人會佔人口的一半但是我們現在政府都弱化他們因為少子化所以這個分子一定會大於分母有一天整個台灣就會崩潰\n\n10\n00:03:18,110 --> 00:03:39,403\n那我知道這個經濟部其實也有注意到這個問題了在鼓勵這個高齡就業就是有中小企業發展條例第36條要鼓勵企業來提高僱用中高齡及高齡者那這個我要問部長這個理由我覺得這個利益當然很好\n\n11\n00:03:41,582 --> 00:03:50,451\n但是我覺得沒有切中重點因為你這個辦法當中是鼓勵獎勵這個45歲以上的有這個租稅優惠1到150%但是部長看一下這個圖其實在45到19歲\n\n12\n00:04:02,794 --> 00:04:09,159\n臺灣的勞參率有85,其實跟各國沒有太大差異50到55歲之間76.3也沒有太大差異我們真的開始落後這個各國的\n\n13\n00:04:17,819 --> 00:04:37,318\n若若各國從55歲以上我們只剩下5960歲以上我們只剩下3965歲以上我們只剩下9.6所以呢這個你如果按照你這個辦法大家都聘用企業都聘用45歲的啦沒有人要聘用55歲65歲的啦所以你根本沒有解決問題\n\n14\n00:04:38,786 --> 00:05:01,197\n你根本沒有解決問題所以我在這裡建議因為我知道那個經濟部有提出這個我們可不可以除了你45歲以上有租稅要有等距的這種優惠更加的獎勵是不是經濟部目前的版本是增加雇用45歲以上的租稅優惠150%可不可以再增加\n\n15\n00:05:01,957 --> 00:05:01,977\n好,謝謝。\n\n16\n00:05:33,552 --> 00:05:33,954\n謝謝吳春城委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t13124\t吳春城委員發言主席請部長來請王部長\n21735\t42388\t部長好,我是民眾黨的幹事長吳春城民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊跟新利所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌這個炮轟門裂就是要除弊\n43024\t65957\t但是我要跟部長提的是心力啦所以部長不要太緊張我們談的是一個心力的問題那我要因為我非常關注這個高齡化社會的議題那我要請部長就是來思考長壽時代來臨經濟部的角色是什麼\n67581\t85759\t因為我發現我們各部會都沒有準備好這個迎接長壽的這個計畫所以我今天跟部長來討論的是如何讓扶養比的分子變分母我想經濟部一定很關注這一個扶養比的問題\n87605\t110557\t問部長,分子就是被撫養的人,分母就是在工作的人口。因為少子化,所以工作的人口越來越小,分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大,是不是這樣子?\n112220\t116222\t市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?\n140690\t163987\t確實這個是一個大的議題那很多的東亞國家也都面臨這樣的一個嚴重的議題那政府的這個部分確實應該很多的方面來解決這樣一個問題要從很多方面是其實對部長也同意這是一個嚴重的問題但是呢看起來我們都沒有什麼很好的方法\n166345\t176688\t那我要跟大家跟這個就是這次我不到立委員來提的就叫壯時代有一個方法就是讓分子壯起來把分子拉下來當分母\n179591\t196577\t我們現在很大的問題就是未來高壽的人會佔人口的一半但是我們現在政府都弱化他們因為少子化所以這個分子一定會大於分母有一天整個台灣就會崩潰\n198110\t219403\t那我知道這個經濟部其實也有注意到這個問題了在鼓勵這個高齡就業就是有中小企業發展條例第36條要鼓勵企業來提高僱用中高齡及高齡者那這個我要問部長這個理由我覺得這個利益當然很好\n221582\t230451\t但是我覺得沒有切中重點因為你這個辦法當中是鼓勵獎勵這個45歲以上的有這個租稅優惠1到150%但是部長看一下這個圖其實在45到19歲\n242794\t249159\t臺灣的勞參率有85,其實跟各國沒有太大差異50到55歲之間76.3也沒有太大差異我們真的開始落後這個各國的\n257819\t277318\t若若各國從55歲以上我們只剩下5960歲以上我們只剩下3965歲以上我們只剩下9.6所以呢這個你如果按照你這個辦法大家都聘用企業都聘用45歲的啦沒有人要聘用55歲65歲的啦所以你根本沒有解決問題\n278786\t301197\t你根本沒有解決問題所以我在這裡建議因為我知道那個經濟部有提出這個我們可不可以除了你45歲以上有租稅要有等距的這種優惠更加的獎勵是不是經濟部目前的版本是增加雇用45歲以上的租稅優惠150%可不可以再增加\n301957\t301977\t好,謝謝。\n333552\t333954\t謝謝吳春城委員\n","txt":"吳春城委員發言主席請部長來請王部長\n部長好,我是民眾黨的幹事長吳春城民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊跟新利所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌這個炮轟門裂就是要除弊\n但是我要跟部長提的是心力啦所以部長不要太緊張我們談的是一個心力的問題那我要因為我非常關注這個高齡化社會的議題那我要請部長就是來思考長壽時代來臨經濟部的角色是什麼\n因為我發現我們各部會都沒有準備好這個迎接長壽的這個計畫所以我今天跟部長來討論的是如何讓扶養比的分子變分母我想經濟部一定很關注這一個扶養比的問題\n問部長,分子就是被撫養的人,分母就是在工作的人口。因為少子化,所以工作的人口越來越小,分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大,是不是這樣子?\n市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?\n確實這個是一個大的議題那很多的東亞國家也都面臨這樣的一個嚴重的議題那政府的這個部分確實應該很多的方面來解決這樣一個問題要從很多方面是其實對部長也同意這是一個嚴重的問題但是呢看起來我們都沒有什麼很好的方法\n那我要跟大家跟這個就是這次我不到立委員來提的就叫壯時代有一個方法就是讓分子壯起來把分子拉下來當分母\n我們現在很大的問題就是未來高壽的人會佔人口的一半但是我們現在政府都弱化他們因為少子化所以這個分子一定會大於分母有一天整個台灣就會崩潰\n那我知道這個經濟部其實也有注意到這個問題了在鼓勵這個高齡就業就是有中小企業發展條例第36條要鼓勵企業來提高僱用中高齡及高齡者那這個我要問部長這個理由我覺得這個利益當然很好\n但是我覺得沒有切中重點因為你這個辦法當中是鼓勵獎勵這個45歲以上的有這個租稅優惠1到150%但是部長看一下這個圖其實在45到19歲\n臺灣的勞參率有85,其實跟各國沒有太大差異50到55歲之間76.3也沒有太大差異我們真的開始落後這個各國的\n若若各國從55歲以上我們只剩下5960歲以上我們只剩下3965歲以上我們只剩下9.6所以呢這個你如果按照你這個辦法大家都聘用企業都聘用45歲的啦沒有人要聘用55歲65歲的啦所以你根本沒有解決問題\n你根本沒有解決問題所以我在這裡建議因為我知道那個經濟部有提出這個我們可不可以除了你45歲以上有租稅要有等距的這種優惠更加的獎勵是不是經濟部目前的版本是增加雇用45歲以上的租稅優惠150%可不可以再增加\n好,謝謝。\n謝謝吳春城委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:13.124\n吳春城委員發言主席請部長來請王部長\n\n00:21.735 --> 00:42.388\n部長好,我是民眾黨的幹事長吳春城民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊跟新利所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌這個炮轟門裂就是要除弊\n\n00:43.024 --> 01:05.957\n但是我要跟部長提的是心力啦所以部長不要太緊張我們談的是一個心力的問題那我要因為我非常關注這個高齡化社會的議題那我要請部長就是來思考長壽時代來臨經濟部的角色是什麼\n\n01:07.581 --> 01:25.759\n因為我發現我們各部會都沒有準備好這個迎接長壽的這個計畫所以我今天跟部長來討論的是如何讓扶養比的分子變分母我想經濟部一定很關注這一個扶養比的問題\n\n01:27.605 --> 01:50.557\n問部長,分子就是被撫養的人,分母就是在工作的人口。因為少子化,所以工作的人口越來越小,分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大,是不是這樣子?\n\n01:52.220 --> 01:56.222\n市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?\n\n02:20.690 --> 02:43.987\n確實這個是一個大的議題那很多的東亞國家也都面臨這樣的一個嚴重的議題那政府的這個部分確實應該很多的方面來解決這樣一個問題要從很多方面是其實對部長也同意這是一個嚴重的問題但是呢看起來我們都沒有什麼很好的方法\n\n02:46.345 --> 02:56.688\n那我要跟大家跟這個就是這次我不到立委員來提的就叫壯時代有一個方法就是讓分子壯起來把分子拉下來當分母\n\n02:59.591 --> 03:16.577\n我們現在很大的問題就是未來高壽的人會佔人口的一半但是我們現在政府都弱化他們因為少子化所以這個分子一定會大於分母有一天整個台灣就會崩潰\n\n03:18.110 --> 03:39.403\n那我知道這個經濟部其實也有注意到這個問題了在鼓勵這個高齡就業就是有中小企業發展條例第36條要鼓勵企業來提高僱用中高齡及高齡者那這個我要問部長這個理由我覺得這個利益當然很好\n\n03:41.582 --> 03:50.451\n但是我覺得沒有切中重點因為你這個辦法當中是鼓勵獎勵這個45歲以上的有這個租稅優惠1到150%但是部長看一下這個圖其實在45到19歲\n\n04:02.794 --> 04:09.159\n臺灣的勞參率有85,其實跟各國沒有太大差異50到55歲之間76.3也沒有太大差異我們真的開始落後這個各國的\n\n04:17.819 --> 04:37.318\n若若各國從55歲以上我們只剩下5960歲以上我們只剩下3965歲以上我們只剩下9.6所以呢這個你如果按照你這個辦法大家都聘用企業都聘用45歲的啦沒有人要聘用55歲65歲的啦所以你根本沒有解決問題\n\n04:38.786 --> 05:01.197\n你根本沒有解決問題所以我在這裡建議因為我知道那個經濟部有提出這個我們可不可以除了你45歲以上有租稅要有等距的這種優惠更加的獎勵是不是經濟部目前的版本是增加雇用45歲以上的租稅優惠150%可不可以再增加\n\n05:01.957 --> 05:01.977\n好,謝謝。\n\n05:33.552 --> 05:33.954\n謝謝吳春城委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":13.124,"text":"吳春城委員發言主席請部長來請王部長"},{"start":21.735,"end":42.388,"text":"部長好,我是民眾黨的幹事長吳春城民眾黨的兩個目標就是除弊跟新利所以剛才我們的總召黃國昌這個炮轟門裂就是要除弊"},{"start":43.024,"end":65.957,"text":"但是我要跟部長提的是心力啦所以部長不要太緊張我們談的是一個心力的問題那我要因為我非常關注這個高齡化社會的議題那我要請部長就是來思考長壽時代來臨經濟部的角色是什麼"},{"start":67.581,"end":85.759,"text":"因為我發現我們各部會都沒有準備好這個迎接長壽的這個計畫所以我今天跟部長來討論的是如何讓扶養比的分子變分母我想經濟部一定很關注這一個扶養比的問題"},{"start":87.605,"end":110.557,"text":"問部長,分子就是被撫養的人,分母就是在工作的人口。因為少子化,所以工作的人口越來越小,分母就越來越小。因為高齡化,所以分子就越來越大,是不是這樣子?"},{"start":112.22,"end":116.222,"text":"市長有什麼解套?現在為了這件事情在做什麼準備?"},{"start":140.69,"end":163.987,"text":"確實這個是一個大的議題那很多的東亞國家也都面臨這樣的一個嚴重的議題那政府的這個部分確實應該很多的方面來解決這樣一個問題要從很多方面是其實對部長也同意這是一個嚴重的問題但是呢看起來我們都沒有什麼很好的方法"},{"start":166.345,"end":176.688,"text":"那我要跟大家跟這個就是這次我不到立委員來提的就叫壯時代有一個方法就是讓分子壯起來把分子拉下來當分母"},{"start":179.591,"end":196.577,"text":"我們現在很大的問題就是未來高壽的人會佔人口的一半但是我們現在政府都弱化他們因為少子化所以這個分子一定會大於分母有一天整個台灣就會崩潰"},{"start":198.11,"end":219.403,"text":"那我知道這個經濟部其實也有注意到這個問題了在鼓勵這個高齡就業就是有中小企業發展條例第36條要鼓勵企業來提高僱用中高齡及高齡者那這個我要問部長這個理由我覺得這個利益當然很好"},{"start":221.582,"end":230.451,"text":"但是我覺得沒有切中重點因為你這個辦法當中是鼓勵獎勵這個45歲以上的有這個租稅優惠1到150%但是部長看一下這個圖其實在45到19歲"},{"start":242.794,"end":249.159,"text":"臺灣的勞參率有85,其實跟各國沒有太大差異50到55歲之間76.3也沒有太大差異我們真的開始落後這個各國的"},{"start":257.819,"end":277.318,"text":"若若各國從55歲以上我們只剩下5960歲以上我們只剩下3965歲以上我們只剩下9.6所以呢這個你如果按照你這個辦法大家都聘用企業都聘用45歲的啦沒有人要聘用55歲65歲的啦所以你根本沒有解決問題"},{"start":278.786,"end":301.197,"text":"你根本沒有解決問題所以我在這裡建議因為我知道那個經濟部有提出這個我們可不可以除了你45歲以上有租稅要有等距的這種優惠更加的獎勵是不是經濟部目前的版本是增加雇用45歲以上的租稅優惠150%可不可以再增加"},{"start":301.957,"end":301.977,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":333.552,"end":333.954,"text":"謝謝吳春城委員"}]}}}}