{"id":149816,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149816","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b690382ada747f2ca9cfa14b75c67118f492bf8ba9b0039caa7a6233332d118b3cbf45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:13:25 - 12:19:04","影片長度":"00:05:39","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":339,"end_time":"2024-03-13T12:19:04+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T12:13:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1026,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時13分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。上次我在質詢的時候，有提出過我們的移工失聯總數，你那時候回答說不能只看失聯總數，要看失聯率，對不對？那我想請教一下，你知道我們去年1月的移工總數是72萬2,622人，失聯8萬0,643人，失聯率是11.16%，今年的失聯率是11.36%，所以看起來，今年1月比起去年1月，失聯率還是比較高啊！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我當初跟你說的是整年度，就是以112年跟111年去比。"],["羅委員智強：因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛！對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，但是如果單看一個時間，通常我們失聯率是會統計整年，去看今年有沒有一些改善。"],["羅委員智強：是一個時間點就可以看失聯率，不是嗎？好，沒關係，我要跟你講，顯然……"],["許部長銘春：不過委員，這個我們一定要再努力啦！"],["羅委員智強：對。顯然不只是總數，移工失聯率以這樣看來，至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加，所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策，我覺得給外界的感覺好像是開放越多失聯的就越多，所以現在我們講說印度移工的開放問題，我能不能請部長跟我們保證一下，在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前，你可能還要再審慎一下吧？"],["許部長銘春：我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的……"],["羅委員智強：你能不能給我一個明確的保證，如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前，不會貿然開放印度移工？因為外界現在最大的質疑，其中一個就是你這個後端沒有管好嘛！"],["許部長銘春：因為這是兩個議題啦！我們開放印度移工，我一直在強調，其實這是多一個來源國，讓雇主多一個選擇，降低我們過度依賴的風險。"],["羅委員智強：當然這是兩個議題，可是這兩個議題有相關聯性嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，然後移工的失聯率，我們也一定會努力來把失聯人數降低。"],["羅委員智強：上次我大概就跟部長討論過了，你會發現實質上，這些年來，不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多，現在我看失聯率也在增加嘛！所以這種情況之下，你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧？"],["許部長銘春：是，報告委員，因為剛剛委員舉的是去年1月跟今年1月單月的比較，那我是說……"],["羅委員智強：沒有關係，那你把整個年度、所有年度的數字再提供給我，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：可以。"],["羅委員智強：下一個問題要請教您，我上次也問到，關於引入印度移工的部分，我說目前連一位懂印地語、烏爾都語的司法通譯都沒有，請問有去了解一下嗎？"],["許部長銘春：因為我們基本上會先引進精通英語的移工為優先的考……"],["羅委員智強：我上次已經說過，實質上印度來說的話，它的官方語言，它憲法所載的語言就22個，那其中有很多重要的語言，不只是英語。"],["許部長銘春：對，它英語大概占十分之一，12%左右，大概有1.5億人是懂英文的，所以未來引進移工，我們也希望能夠讓雙方比較容易溝通、適應，會優先……"],["羅委員智強：所以換言之，你會把英語作為一個門檻啦！"],["許部長銘春：我們會把英語作為優先的選項。"],["羅委員智強：了解。我想請教部長下一個問題，我看到這一次的業務報告很多都在講托育的部分，我想請教您，我看到勞動部的業務報告把112年補助了453家企業辦理托兒措施跟設施列為政績，可是為什麼沒有講到雇主辦理托兒設施跟措施的成長率？"],["許部長銘春：成長率是吧？"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["許部長銘春：這個部分，我在……"],["羅委員智強：我看到你2018年到2025年，你是講說補助的家數都達到目標值，達成值是目標值的兩倍，可是這5年裡，每一年雇主辦理托兒設施或措施的成長率，平均成長率只有1.4個百分點。我看到這個補助數量雖然倍增，可是成長率沒有什麼變動，那這個補助的效果就會出現一些問題，我有看到一些根本的問題，請部長研究啦！"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["羅委員智強：事實上在勞動部相關的作業須知裡面，它有一個規定是員工在99人以下的企業優先補助，但是從數據來看的話，你的相關補助在2018年到2022年，100名員工以上的企業拿走9成2，在全國占了4成的百人以下企業只拿8%，我覺得只補助大企業忽略小企業的這個部分，可能也要稍微檢討一下，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["羅委員智強：OK，以上，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。","接下來請牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊曜","王育敏","李坤城","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","羅智強","牛煦庭","劉建國","王鴻薇","張雅琳","黃仁","吳春城","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林德福","葉元之"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2024-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1131301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149816","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149816","tool":"pyannote","id":"149816-pyannote"},"job_id":"JHsTsUtRWoPxHKzO","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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337.164, \"end\": 337.184, \"score\": 0.247}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,065 --> 00:00:09,769\n主席有請部長請許部長\n\n2\n00:00:16,164 --> 00:00:16,324\n羅委員好\n\n3\n00:00:46,284 --> 00:01:14,079\n那今年的失聯率是11.36所以看起來今年1月比去年1月失聯率還是比較高啊我當時候跟你說的是整年度啦就112跟111去比因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛對不對那我是拿我們通常失聯率是會統計整年這個去看說有沒有今年的失聯率是一個時間點就可以看失聯率嘛不是嗎\n\n4\n00:01:16,939 --> 00:01:31,554\n對阿好沒關係我要跟您講就說現在一定要再努力啦對對顯然不只總數啦移工失聯率這樣看至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策我覺得\n\n5\n00:01:32,535 --> 00:01:49,162\n好像給外界的感覺就開放的越多啊失聯的就越多所以現在我們講說這個印度移工的開放問題啊我那邊請那個部長可以跟我們保證一下在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前你可能還要再審慎一下吧\n\n6\n00:01:52,847 --> 00:02:06,002\n我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的你能不能給我一個說明確的保證就是說如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前不會貿然開放印度的移工\n\n7\n00:02:07,589 --> 00:02:34,446\n外界現在最大質疑就是說其中一個就是說你你這後端你沒有管好呃報告委員因為這是兩個議題啦吼就是說我們開放印度移工我我一直在講到就其實這個是多一個來源國讓雇主多一個選擇降低我們當然這個是兩個議題可是這兩個議題有相關聯性對然後移工的失聯我們也一定會努力吼來把他的失聯人數來努力上次其實我大概就跟那個部長討論過\n\n8\n00:02:35,607 --> 00:02:57,649\n你也發現說實質上這些年來這個不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多像我看失聯率也在增加嘛所以這種情況之下你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧報告委員因為失聯率因為剛委員舉的是去年單月跟今年的1月單月這樣比較沒有關係那你把整個年度所有年度\n\n9\n00:02:59,351 --> 00:03:20,532\n這個的那個數字在提供給我好不好可以可以那我想請教下一個問題請教你我上次也問到一個就是有關於引渡引渡印度移工的部分我說目前這個連一位懂印地語烏爾都語的司法同意都沒有那請問有去了解一下嗎報告委員因為我們基本上會以先引進\n\n10\n00:03:24,604 --> 00:03:45,505\n我上次已經說過事實上印度來說的話他當然官方語言他憲法所載22個那其實有很多的重要的語言他大概只是英語啦他英語大概有站站十分之12%大概有1.5億人懂英文的所以我未來在\n\n11\n00:03:46,085 --> 00:04:08,795\n就引進一個我們希望說在能夠讓雙方比較容易溝通適應會先換言之你會把英語作為一個門檻我們會把英語做一個就是優先的選項了解我想請教這個部長下一個問題那我看這次的業務報告很多都在講托育的部分那我想請教您我看到就是\n\n12\n00:04:09,676 --> 00:04:26,575\n勞動部業務報告把112年補助了453家企業辦理托兒措施跟設施列為政績可是為什麼沒有講到所謂的僱主辦理托兒設施跟措施的成長率呢\n\n13\n00:04:27,355 --> 00:04:51,667\n成長率上對不過我在我看你2018到2025年你是講說補助的加速都達到目標值嗎那達成值是目標值的兩倍嗎可是這五年裡每一年的雇主辦理托兒那個設施或措施成長率平均成長率只有1.4個百分點那我就看到數量雖然倍增了補助數量可是\n\n14\n00:04:53,278 --> 00:05:11,848\n這個成長率沒有什麼變動那這個補助的效果就會出現一些問題我有看到一些根本的問題請部長研究就是說事實上在勞動部補助那個相關的作業需知裡面他有一個規定是員工在99人以下的企業優先補助\n\n15\n00:05:12,628 --> 00:05:37,184\n但從數據來看的話你的相關補助在2018到2022年100名員工以上拿走9成2那佔走了4成的百人以下企業只拿8%那我覺得這個只補助大企業忽略小企業的部分可能也要稍微檢討一下好不好以上謝謝謝謝羅智強委員接下來請牛許廷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9065\t9769\t主席有請部長請許部長\n16164\t16324\t羅委員好\n46284\t74079\t那今年的失聯率是11.36所以看起來今年1月比去年1月失聯率還是比較高啊我當時候跟你說的是整年度啦就112跟111去比因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛對不對那我是拿我們通常失聯率是會統計整年這個去看說有沒有今年的失聯率是一個時間點就可以看失聯率嘛不是嗎\n76939\t91554\t對阿好沒關係我要跟您講就說現在一定要再努力啦對對顯然不只總數啦移工失聯率這樣看至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策我覺得\n92535\t109162\t好像給外界的感覺就開放的越多啊失聯的就越多所以現在我們講說這個印度移工的開放問題啊我那邊請那個部長可以跟我們保證一下在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前你可能還要再審慎一下吧\n112847\t126002\t我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的你能不能給我一個說明確的保證就是說如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前不會貿然開放印度的移工\n127589\t154446\t外界現在最大質疑就是說其中一個就是說你你這後端你沒有管好呃報告委員因為這是兩個議題啦吼就是說我們開放印度移工我我一直在講到就其實這個是多一個來源國讓雇主多一個選擇降低我們當然這個是兩個議題可是這兩個議題有相關聯性對然後移工的失聯我們也一定會努力吼來把他的失聯人數來努力上次其實我大概就跟那個部長討論過\n155607\t177649\t你也發現說實質上這些年來這個不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多像我看失聯率也在增加嘛所以這種情況之下你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧報告委員因為失聯率因為剛委員舉的是去年單月跟今年的1月單月這樣比較沒有關係那你把整個年度所有年度\n179351\t200532\t這個的那個數字在提供給我好不好可以可以那我想請教下一個問題請教你我上次也問到一個就是有關於引渡引渡印度移工的部分我說目前這個連一位懂印地語烏爾都語的司法同意都沒有那請問有去了解一下嗎報告委員因為我們基本上會以先引進\n204604\t225505\t我上次已經說過事實上印度來說的話他當然官方語言他憲法所載22個那其實有很多的重要的語言他大概只是英語啦他英語大概有站站十分之12%大概有1.5億人懂英文的所以我未來在\n226085\t248795\t就引進一個我們希望說在能夠讓雙方比較容易溝通適應會先換言之你會把英語作為一個門檻我們會把英語做一個就是優先的選項了解我想請教這個部長下一個問題那我看這次的業務報告很多都在講托育的部分那我想請教您我看到就是\n249676\t266575\t勞動部業務報告把112年補助了453家企業辦理托兒措施跟設施列為政績可是為什麼沒有講到所謂的僱主辦理托兒設施跟措施的成長率呢\n267355\t291667\t成長率上對不過我在我看你2018到2025年你是講說補助的加速都達到目標值嗎那達成值是目標值的兩倍嗎可是這五年裡每一年的雇主辦理托兒那個設施或措施成長率平均成長率只有1.4個百分點那我就看到數量雖然倍增了補助數量可是\n293278\t311848\t這個成長率沒有什麼變動那這個補助的效果就會出現一些問題我有看到一些根本的問題請部長研究就是說事實上在勞動部補助那個相關的作業需知裡面他有一個規定是員工在99人以下的企業優先補助\n312628\t337184\t但從數據來看的話你的相關補助在2018到2022年100名員工以上拿走9成2那佔走了4成的百人以下企業只拿8%那我覺得這個只補助大企業忽略小企業的部分可能也要稍微檢討一下好不好以上謝謝謝謝羅智強委員接下來請牛許廷委員\n","txt":"主席有請部長請許部長\n羅委員好\n那今年的失聯率是11.36所以看起來今年1月比去年1月失聯率還是比較高啊我當時候跟你說的是整年度啦就112跟111去比因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛對不對那我是拿我們通常失聯率是會統計整年這個去看說有沒有今年的失聯率是一個時間點就可以看失聯率嘛不是嗎\n對阿好沒關係我要跟您講就說現在一定要再努力啦對對顯然不只總數啦移工失聯率這樣看至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策我覺得\n好像給外界的感覺就開放的越多啊失聯的就越多所以現在我們講說這個印度移工的開放問題啊我那邊請那個部長可以跟我們保證一下在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前你可能還要再審慎一下吧\n我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的你能不能給我一個說明確的保證就是說如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前不會貿然開放印度的移工\n外界現在最大質疑就是說其中一個就是說你你這後端你沒有管好呃報告委員因為這是兩個議題啦吼就是說我們開放印度移工我我一直在講到就其實這個是多一個來源國讓雇主多一個選擇降低我們當然這個是兩個議題可是這兩個議題有相關聯性對然後移工的失聯我們也一定會努力吼來把他的失聯人數來努力上次其實我大概就跟那個部長討論過\n你也發現說實質上這些年來這個不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多像我看失聯率也在增加嘛所以這種情況之下你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧報告委員因為失聯率因為剛委員舉的是去年單月跟今年的1月單月這樣比較沒有關係那你把整個年度所有年度\n這個的那個數字在提供給我好不好可以可以那我想請教下一個問題請教你我上次也問到一個就是有關於引渡引渡印度移工的部分我說目前這個連一位懂印地語烏爾都語的司法同意都沒有那請問有去了解一下嗎報告委員因為我們基本上會以先引進\n我上次已經說過事實上印度來說的話他當然官方語言他憲法所載22個那其實有很多的重要的語言他大概只是英語啦他英語大概有站站十分之12%大概有1.5億人懂英文的所以我未來在\n就引進一個我們希望說在能夠讓雙方比較容易溝通適應會先換言之你會把英語作為一個門檻我們會把英語做一個就是優先的選項了解我想請教這個部長下一個問題那我看這次的業務報告很多都在講托育的部分那我想請教您我看到就是\n勞動部業務報告把112年補助了453家企業辦理托兒措施跟設施列為政績可是為什麼沒有講到所謂的僱主辦理托兒設施跟措施的成長率呢\n成長率上對不過我在我看你2018到2025年你是講說補助的加速都達到目標值嗎那達成值是目標值的兩倍嗎可是這五年裡每一年的雇主辦理托兒那個設施或措施成長率平均成長率只有1.4個百分點那我就看到數量雖然倍增了補助數量可是\n這個成長率沒有什麼變動那這個補助的效果就會出現一些問題我有看到一些根本的問題請部長研究就是說事實上在勞動部補助那個相關的作業需知裡面他有一個規定是員工在99人以下的企業優先補助\n但從數據來看的話你的相關補助在2018到2022年100名員工以上拿走9成2那佔走了4成的百人以下企業只拿8%那我覺得這個只補助大企業忽略小企業的部分可能也要稍微檢討一下好不好以上謝謝謝謝羅智強委員接下來請牛許廷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.065 --> 00:09.769\n主席有請部長請許部長\n\n00:16.164 --> 00:16.324\n羅委員好\n\n00:46.284 --> 01:14.079\n那今年的失聯率是11.36所以看起來今年1月比去年1月失聯率還是比較高啊我當時候跟你說的是整年度啦就112跟111去比因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛對不對那我是拿我們通常失聯率是會統計整年這個去看說有沒有今年的失聯率是一個時間點就可以看失聯率嘛不是嗎\n\n01:16.939 --> 01:31.554\n對阿好沒關係我要跟您講就說現在一定要再努力啦對對顯然不只總數啦移工失聯率這樣看至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策我覺得\n\n01:32.535 --> 01:49.162\n好像給外界的感覺就開放的越多啊失聯的就越多所以現在我們講說這個印度移工的開放問題啊我那邊請那個部長可以跟我們保證一下在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前你可能還要再審慎一下吧\n\n01:52.847 --> 02:06.002\n我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的你能不能給我一個說明確的保證就是說如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前不會貿然開放印度的移工\n\n02:07.589 --> 02:34.446\n外界現在最大質疑就是說其中一個就是說你你這後端你沒有管好呃報告委員因為這是兩個議題啦吼就是說我們開放印度移工我我一直在講到就其實這個是多一個來源國讓雇主多一個選擇降低我們當然這個是兩個議題可是這兩個議題有相關聯性對然後移工的失聯我們也一定會努力吼來把他的失聯人數來努力上次其實我大概就跟那個部長討論過\n\n02:35.607 --> 02:57.649\n你也發現說實質上這些年來這個不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多像我看失聯率也在增加嘛所以這種情況之下你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧報告委員因為失聯率因為剛委員舉的是去年單月跟今年的1月單月這樣比較沒有關係那你把整個年度所有年度\n\n02:59.351 --> 03:20.532\n這個的那個數字在提供給我好不好可以可以那我想請教下一個問題請教你我上次也問到一個就是有關於引渡引渡印度移工的部分我說目前這個連一位懂印地語烏爾都語的司法同意都沒有那請問有去了解一下嗎報告委員因為我們基本上會以先引進\n\n03:24.604 --> 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