{"id":149817,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149817","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7ed54bd69a3b6903409c7d032aee9c9633e530803e447454f8ba9b0039caa7a6e027a2bf8945983e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:15:20 - 12:20:32","影片長度":"00:05:12","會議時間":"2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-13","duration":312,"end_time":"2024-03-13T12:20:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-13T12:15:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":960,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時15分）謝謝主席，請王美花部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。延續剛才半導體的話題，最近聽說台積電有機會得到美國50億美元的補助，大家都知道，因為晶片法案，美國要補助500億美元，可是台積電一直沒有爭取到。現在傳出台積電有可能爭取到50億美元的補助，您所了解的狀況是不是這樣？"],["王部長美花：目前這個部分都是由美國政府決定，我個人還不清楚美國政府補助的金額。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以目前你沒有辦法確定這件事情？"],["王部長美花：沒有辦法確定。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外，這陣子大家的焦點都集中在電價上漲的問題，例如調幅是多少，之前一直傳出你們希望能夠控制調幅不要太高，但是其中有一個前提，就是能不能將這次稅收超徵撥補給台電，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們希望撥補多少錢？1,000億元還是1,500億元？"],["王部長美花：我們確實是希望向行政院爭取比較多的補助。"],["王委員鴻薇：1,500億元，對不對？因為如果能夠補助到1,500億元，調幅就可以降低。可是部長，本席現在要告訴你一件事情，你的美夢可能會受到一些阻礙，為什麼呢？本席今天早上特別問主計長，我們稅收是不是超徵3,600億元，他說沒有那麼多，還要七折八扣，因為有一些公債發行等等，最後只剩下1,500億元。如果只剩下1,500億元，現在不只台電想要補助，勞保基金也快要破產，所以勞保基金也希望爭取補助。哇！大家都想著這筆錢。","所以如果按照他的說法，這次稅收超徵在扣除其他必要支出之後，只有1,500億元，顯然很難完全補助給你們。而且他說了一句話，他說如果全部都補助給台電的話，明年度的預算會很難編列，因為就沒有賸餘了。部長，這是不是你第一次聽到這個噩耗？"],["王部長美花：因為行政院還在試算，所以我們還沒有得到最後的答案。"],["王委員鴻薇：還是你只是先和他們喊價而已？"],["王部長美花：不是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們希望拿到最高的補助1,500億元，但事實上最後拿到的撥補金額不會那麼高。"],["王部長美花：行政院確實還在試算當中。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你們的確是要求補助1,500億元，但是今天主計長也說的非常清楚。第二件事，審計長也說了，他說到目前為止，稅收超徵的部分，審計部還沒有審定。因為你們要撥補的話，也要等他們審定之後，你們才能夠拿到錢，也就是說，起碼要到7、8月份之後，所以你們不會立刻拿到錢。你知道這件事嗎？"],["王部長美花：這些事情都有程序，我大概知道流程。"],["王委員鴻薇：請教一下，如果你們能拿到1,500億元的話，我們的電價是不是可以控制？預估漲10到12%？"],["王部長美花：確實，兩邊會有連動，但是具體的數字恐怕還沒有辦法向委員說明。"],["王委員鴻薇：大概是2%到3%的差別，對不對？"],["王部長美花：對，有可能。因為這是由小組審議，所以我不知道細節。"],["王委員鴻薇：本席要說一下，如果要多補助台電一點的話，勢必會影響我們明年度的預算編列，這是主計長說的，本席今天也是第一次聽說，本席一直以為超徵的部分大概是3,600億元左右，但是他更正了，他說沒有這麼多。如果我們現在向行政院全部要來補助台電，那麼就會有一個問題，也就是會影響未來的新政府，520之後賴清德上台，他們明年的預算就會很難編列，現在是有這樣的狀況。"],["王部長美花：具體的財政怎麼編列，確實是主計處在負責。"],["王委員鴻薇：本席認為他現在是巧婦難為無米之炊，他覺得電價和撥補的問題最好分開處理，因為他很怕你們一直跟他要錢，結果到最後，他們沒有賸餘可以支應明年的預算，以上，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。","請陳俊宇委員、陳俊宇委員、陳俊宇委員不在。","請顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員不在。","請林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","請葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","請高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在。","請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","請羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請劉建國委員、劉建國委員、劉建國委員不在。","登記發言的委員，除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。另外有葉元之委員所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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\"啊\", \"start\": 277.525, \"end\": 277.545, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 294.502, \"end\": 294.522, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,191 --> 00:00:10,352\n王鴻薇議員\n\n2\n00:00:19,333 --> 00:00:19,794\n您所瞭解的狀況是不是這樣?\n\n3\n00:00:44,252 --> 00:01:07,852\n目前這個部分確實都是美國政府來決定的部分我個人還不清楚美國政府的補助的金額所以你目前沒有辦法確定這些事情沒有辦法確定好另外我想這陣子大家都是集中在就是有關於電價上漲那條幅是多少那現在呢之前就是一直都傳出你們希望能夠把這個條幅\n\n4\n00:01:09,974 --> 00:01:10,254\n王鴻薇議員\n\n5\n00:01:27,268 --> 00:01:36,512\n我們跟院裡面的爭取確實我們有爭取希望能夠比較多的1500億對不對因為你能補助到1500億然後你的補助額就你的這個條幅就可以降低可是部長我現在告訴你一件事情我現在就告訴你你的這個美夢可能會受到一些阻礙你知道為什麼呢我今天早上特別問主計長我說我們稅收超成3600億\n\n6\n00:01:56,300 --> 00:02:04,797\n他說沒有沒有那麼多他說七折八扣因為有一些公債的發行等等之類最後剩下來只有一千五百億\n\n7\n00:02:05,939 --> 00:02:28,618\n所以我說只需要1500億那麼台電也想要補助然後我們勞保基金也快要破產勞保基金也希望能爭取補助我說哇大家都想著你這筆錢那所以如果按照他的說法其實這次稅收超出他在扣除其他的他的必要的支出之後只有1500億\n\n8\n00:02:30,922 --> 00:02:49,302\n所以他顯然很難完全補助給你而且他說了一句話他說如果全部都給補助給台電的話那麼明年度的預算很難編他說因為就沒有剩餘了所以部長這是不是你第一次聽到的噩耗\n\n9\n00:02:51,148 --> 00:03:04,396\n因為院裡面還在試算所以我們還沒有得到最後的答案還是你是只是跟他喊價而已沒有沒有反正是拿到最高的1500億但是事實上最後應該拿到補助金額撥補金額不會那麼高\n\n10\n00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:28,513\n因為你們確實還在試算當中所以你們要求1500億但是呢今天主計長講得非常清楚第二件事情沈記長也說了他說因為到目前為止稅收超徵的這部分到現在沈記部沒有審定他唷他說如果要審定因為你要撥補的話你要等到他審定之後你才能夠拿到錢\n\n11\n00:03:29,474 --> 00:03:51,530\n也就是說起碼要到七八月份之後那所以也就是說你不會立刻拿到錢你知道這是嗎這個都有他們的程序我大概知道那個流程部分好所以如果請教一下如果你能拿到1500億的話我們電價是不是可以可以控制預估漲到10到12%\n\n12\n00:03:55,041 --> 00:04:07,228\n確實兩邊會有互動的關係沒有錯但是具體的數字恐怕我沒有辦法跟委員做說明兩到三趴的差別對不對有可能對但是因為細節其實是小組在審議我其實細節不知道\n\n13\n00:04:10,430 --> 00:04:25,042\n我要講一下就說要台電如果要補得多的話那麼勢必會影響我們明年度這是主計長說的我是今天也是第一次聽說我一直以為是大概3600億左右但是他跟證他說沒有這麼多\n\n14\n00:04:26,403 --> 00:04:37,545\n那麼如果我們現在就跟我們的行政院全部要來補助給台電那會有一個問題那會影響未來新政府520之後賴清德上來他的預算明年就很難編了是不是有這樣的狀況因為具體的財政怎麼編是確實是主計長這邊主計處這邊我說啊他現在是巧婦難為無米之炊啊\n\n15\n00:04:54,502 --> 00:04:54,522\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10191\t10352\t王鴻薇議員\n19333\t19794\t您所瞭解的狀況是不是這樣?\n44252\t67852\t目前這個部分確實都是美國政府來決定的部分我個人還不清楚美國政府的補助的金額所以你目前沒有辦法確定這些事情沒有辦法確定好另外我想這陣子大家都是集中在就是有關於電價上漲那條幅是多少那現在呢之前就是一直都傳出你們希望能夠把這個條幅\n69974\t70254\t王鴻薇議員\n87268\t96512\t我們跟院裡面的爭取確實我們有爭取希望能夠比較多的1500億對不對因為你能補助到1500億然後你的補助額就你的這個條幅就可以降低可是部長我現在告訴你一件事情我現在就告訴你你的這個美夢可能會受到一些阻礙你知道為什麼呢我今天早上特別問主計長我說我們稅收超成3600億\n116300\t124797\t他說沒有沒有那麼多他說七折八扣因為有一些公債的發行等等之類最後剩下來只有一千五百億\n125939\t148618\t所以我說只需要1500億 那麼台電也想要補助 然後我們勞保基金也快要破產 勞保基金也希望能爭取補助我說哇 大家都想著你這筆錢 那所以如果按照他的說法 其實這次稅收超出 他在扣除其他的他的必要的支出之後 只有1500億\n150922\t169302\t所以他顯然很難完全補助給你而且他說了一句話他說如果全部都給補助給台電的話那麼明年度的預算很難編他說因為就沒有剩餘了所以部長這是不是你第一次聽到的噩耗\n171148\t184396\t因為院裡面還在試算所以我們還沒有得到最後的答案還是你是只是跟他喊價而已沒有沒有反正是拿到最高的1500億但是事實上最後應該拿到補助金額撥補金額不會那麼高\n186860\t208513\t因為你們確實還在試算當中所以你們要求1500億但是呢今天主計長講得非常清楚第二件事情沈記長也說了他說因為到目前為止稅收超徵的這部分到現在沈記部沒有審定他唷他說如果要審定因為你要撥補的話你要等到他審定之後你才能夠拿到錢\n209474\t231530\t也就是說起碼要到七八月份之後那所以也就是說你不會立刻拿到錢你知道這是嗎這個都有他們的程序我大概知道那個流程部分好所以如果請教一下如果你能拿到1500億的話我們電價是不是可以可以控制預估漲到10到12%\n235041\t247228\t確實兩邊會有互動的關係沒有錯但是具體的數字恐怕我沒有辦法跟委員做說明兩到三趴的差別對不對有可能對但是因為細節其實是小組在審議我其實細節不知道\n250430\t265042\t我要講一下就說要台電如果要補得多的話那麼勢必會影響我們明年度這是主計長說的我是今天也是第一次聽說我一直以為是大概3600億左右但是他跟證他說沒有這麼多\n266403\t277545\t那麼如果我們現在就跟我們的行政院全部要來補助給台電那會有一個問題那會影響未來新政府520之後賴清德上來他的預算明年就很難編了是不是有這樣的狀況因為具體的財政怎麼編是確實是主計長這邊主計處這邊我說啊他現在是巧婦難為無米之炊啊\n294502\t294522\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"王鴻薇議員\n您所瞭解的狀況是不是這樣?\n目前這個部分確實都是美國政府來決定的部分我個人還不清楚美國政府的補助的金額所以你目前沒有辦法確定這些事情沒有辦法確定好另外我想這陣子大家都是集中在就是有關於電價上漲那條幅是多少那現在呢之前就是一直都傳出你們希望能夠把這個條幅\n王鴻薇議員\n我們跟院裡面的爭取確實我們有爭取希望能夠比較多的1500億對不對因為你能補助到1500億然後你的補助額就你的這個條幅就可以降低可是部長我現在告訴你一件事情我現在就告訴你你的這個美夢可能會受到一些阻礙你知道為什麼呢我今天早上特別問主計長我說我們稅收超成3600億\n他說沒有沒有那麼多他說七折八扣因為有一些公債的發行等等之類最後剩下來只有一千五百億\n所以我說只需要1500億 那麼台電也想要補助 然後我們勞保基金也快要破產 勞保基金也希望能爭取補助我說哇 大家都想著你這筆錢 那所以如果按照他的說法 其實這次稅收超出 他在扣除其他的他的必要的支出之後 只有1500億\n所以他顯然很難完全補助給你而且他說了一句話他說如果全部都給補助給台電的話那麼明年度的預算很難編他說因為就沒有剩餘了所以部長這是不是你第一次聽到的噩耗\n因為院裡面還在試算所以我們還沒有得到最後的答案還是你是只是跟他喊價而已沒有沒有反正是拿到最高的1500億但是事實上最後應該拿到補助金額撥補金額不會那麼高\n因為你們確實還在試算當中所以你們要求1500億但是呢今天主計長講得非常清楚第二件事情沈記長也說了他說因為到目前為止稅收超徵的這部分到現在沈記部沒有審定他唷他說如果要審定因為你要撥補的話你要等到他審定之後你才能夠拿到錢\n也就是說起碼要到七八月份之後那所以也就是說你不會立刻拿到錢你知道這是嗎這個都有他們的程序我大概知道那個流程部分好所以如果請教一下如果你能拿到1500億的話我們電價是不是可以可以控制預估漲到10到12%\n確實兩邊會有互動的關係沒有錯但是具體的數字恐怕我沒有辦法跟委員做說明兩到三趴的差別對不對有可能對但是因為細節其實是小組在審議我其實細節不知道\n我要講一下就說要台電如果要補得多的話那麼勢必會影響我們明年度這是主計長說的我是今天也是第一次聽說我一直以為是大概3600億左右但是他跟證他說沒有這麼多\n那麼如果我們現在就跟我們的行政院全部要來補助給台電那會有一個問題那會影響未來新政府520之後賴清德上來他的預算明年就很難編了是不是有這樣的狀況因為具體的財政怎麼編是確實是主計長這邊主計處這邊我說啊他現在是巧婦難為無米之炊啊\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.191 --> 00:10.352\n王鴻薇議員\n\n00:19.333 --> 00:19.794\n您所瞭解的狀況是不是這樣?\n\n00:44.252 --> 01:07.852\n目前這個部分確實都是美國政府來決定的部分我個人還不清楚美國政府的補助的金額所以你目前沒有辦法確定這些事情沒有辦法確定好另外我想這陣子大家都是集中在就是有關於電價上漲那條幅是多少那現在呢之前就是一直都傳出你們希望能夠把這個條幅\n\n01:09.974 --> 01:10.254\n王鴻薇議員\n\n01:27.268 --> 01:36.512\n我們跟院裡面的爭取確實我們有爭取希望能夠比較多的1500億對不對因為你能補助到1500億然後你的補助額就你的這個條幅就可以降低可是部長我現在告訴你一件事情我現在就告訴你你的這個美夢可能會受到一些阻礙你知道為什麼呢我今天早上特別問主計長我說我們稅收超成3600億\n\n01:56.300 --> 02:04.797\n他說沒有沒有那麼多他說七折八扣因為有一些公債的發行等等之類最後剩下來只有一千五百億\n\n02:05.939 --> 02:28.618\n所以我說只需要1500億那麼台電也想要補助然後我們勞保基金也快要破產勞保基金也希望能爭取補助我說哇大家都想著你這筆錢那所以如果按照他的說法其實這次稅收超出他在扣除其他的他的必要的支出之後只有1500億\n\n02:30.922 --> 02:49.302\n所以他顯然很難完全補助給你而且他說了一句話他說如果全部都給補助給台電的話那麼明年度的預算很難編他說因為就沒有剩餘了所以部長這是不是你第一次聽到的噩耗\n\n02:51.148 --> 03:04.396\n因為院裡面還在試算所以我們還沒有得到最後的答案還是你是只是跟他喊價而已沒有沒有反正是拿到最高的1500億但是事實上最後應該拿到補助金額撥補金額不會那麼高\n\n03:06.860 --> 03:28.513\n因為你們確實還在試算當中所以你們要求1500億但是呢今天主計長講得非常清楚第二件事情沈記長也說了他說因為到目前為止稅收超徵的這部分到現在沈記部沒有審定他唷他說如果要審定因為你要撥補的話你要等到他審定之後你才能夠拿到錢\n\n03:29.474 --> 03:51.530\n也就是說起碼要到七八月份之後那所以也就是說你不會立刻拿到錢你知道這是嗎這個都有他們的程序我大概知道那個流程部分好所以如果請教一下如果你能拿到1500億的話我們電價是不是可以可以控制預估漲到10到12%\n\n03:55.041 --> 04:07.228\n確實兩邊會有互動的關係沒有錯但是具體的數字恐怕我沒有辦法跟委員做說明兩到三趴的差別對不對有可能對但是因為細節其實是小組在審議我其實細節不知道\n\n04:10.430 --> 04:25.042\n我要講一下就說要台電如果要補得多的話那麼勢必會影響我們明年度這是主計長說的我是今天也是第一次聽說我一直以為是大概3600億左右但是他跟證他說沒有這麼多\n\n04:26.403 --> 04:37.545\n那麼如果我們現在就跟我們的行政院全部要來補助給台電那會有一個問題那會影響未來新政府520之後賴清德上來他的預算明年就很難編了是不是有這樣的狀況因為具體的財政怎麼編是確實是主計長這邊主計處這邊我說啊他現在是巧婦難為無米之炊啊\n\n04:54.502 --> 04:54.522\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.191,"end":10.352,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":19.333,"end":19.794,"text":"您所瞭解的狀況是不是這樣?"},{"start":44.252,"end":67.852,"text":"目前這個部分確實都是美國政府來決定的部分我個人還不清楚美國政府的補助的金額所以你目前沒有辦法確定這些事情沒有辦法確定好另外我想這陣子大家都是集中在就是有關於電價上漲那條幅是多少那現在呢之前就是一直都傳出你們希望能夠把這個條幅"},{"start":69.974,"end":70.254,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":87.268,"end":96.512,"text":"我們跟院裡面的爭取確實我們有爭取希望能夠比較多的1500億對不對因為你能補助到1500億然後你的補助額就你的這個條幅就可以降低可是部長我現在告訴你一件事情我現在就告訴你你的這個美夢可能會受到一些阻礙你知道為什麼呢我今天早上特別問主計長我說我們稅收超成3600億"},{"start":116.3,"end":124.797,"text":"他說沒有沒有那麼多他說七折八扣因為有一些公債的發行等等之類最後剩下來只有一千五百億"},{"start":125.939,"end":148.618,"text":"所以我說只需要1500億 那麼台電也想要補助 然後我們勞保基金也快要破產 勞保基金也希望能爭取補助我說哇 大家都想著你這筆錢 那所以如果按照他的說法 其實這次稅收超出 他在扣除其他的他的必要的支出之後 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