{"id":149829,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149829","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135a72fef5ce299afe708cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a6c39fa9bf89edc1d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:08:42 - 09:19:18","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":636,"end_time":"2024-03-14T09:19:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T09:08:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":702,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時8分）有請我們的薛部長跟氣候變遷署的蔡玲儀署長。"],["主席：請薛部長跟蔡署長。"],["薛部長富盛：林委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長，我來自民間團體，也一直在關心青少年，青少年他們主張說自己有權在清潔、健康跟永續的環境當中生活，環境就是我們的生命，所以成年人應該停止為不屬於他們的未來做出決定，也就是成年人不應該把一個……因為我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段，因為這關係到我們的生命，也就是他們的生命。所以他們想告訴成年人，我們就是你們的後代，如果你們把地球給毀了，我們將在哪裡生活？我覺得要切記，因為環境跟我們未來孩子的生活事實上有非常大的關連性。","部長，國家發展委員會在111年3月30日就提出臺灣2050年淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明，也訂定了2030年減碳的目標在24%，臺灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法，將2050年的淨零排放目標入法，並正式啟動碳費徵收的機制，全國都在關心碳費收費的標準何時收、向誰收，這些都是國人比較關心的。所以請問一下部長，目前我們預估減碳的期程目標，你有信心做到嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：是的，事實上，到目前為止都是按照我們預定的進度來進行，特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳費費率審議委員會，昨天媒體也已經暴露我們21位碳費費率委員，等他們召開之後，我想碳費的標準就會清楚，提供給業界來做參考。"],["林委員月琴：兒權公約在2014年臺灣國內法化之後，去年8月28日也出了一個意見書，叫做第26號意見書，談的是他們的氣候權，也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權，他們同時也有表意權來表達，尤其這邊也特別提醒，各國必須採取一切必要、適當和合理的措施，保護兒童權利免遭工商企業造成或延續與氣候變遷有關的損害，同時企業有責任尊重與氣候變遷有關的兒童權利。那就要來問部長，如果在講氣候權的時候，他們有表意權，那麼有關2050年淨零排放路徑、方法、時程，是不是有跟青少年對話過？"],["薛部長富盛：是的。事實上，環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷，特別是在我們2050年的……"],["林委員月琴：部長，我先提醒，不是在教育裡面，而是這個政策等相關有沒有跟青少年充分對話？因為他們關心，這個地球未來是他們的，他們要在這邊生活，我就特別提醒，青少年有講過：我們就是你們的後代，如果你們把地球給毀了，我們將在哪裡生活。所以想問部長，你有沒有跟他們對話？"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，我剛剛有稍微提到，我們在第3期，現在正在訂定的一個減碳目標裡面，事實上就有跟青少年去做溝通跟對話，過去事實上，環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽，包括如何節能減碳救地球、採用綠色產品，事實上滿多中小學甚至高中生都有參與，當然我們也承認還有可以再努力的空間，但是我們已經有在做。"],["林委員月琴：好。從臺大風險中心的資料顯示，民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的，將近八成民眾事實上是同意的，因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來比較糟糕的環境；我再從環境部這邊也看到，我們的發電業占國內室溫氣體排放超過五成，可是氣候變遷因應法第二十八條第二項把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外，當然理解，因為用意是在避免增加發電業的負擔，進而影響到物價，可是也要問部長，在這種排除的狀況下，目前排碳業大宗就是發電業，環境部接下來怎麼約束、改善？針對這個部分，是不是請你提出報告給我們這邊？","臺灣到底準備好了嗎？臺灣的企業端事實上是充滿憂慮的，有高達八成的企業感受到外界壓力，因為國際上的一些壓力，包括歐盟已經提出我們碳邊境的調整機制，跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅，所以國際遊戲規則來勢洶洶，已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻。所以想問部長，臺灣在這種供應鏈當中占有很重要的位置，所以轉型的壓力超過五成是來自國際的客戶要求，但很遺憾的，目前只有兩成企業設定目標，也只有四成進行碳盤查，落後國際一大段的距離，所以接下來我們為了提高競爭力，要徵收碳費，我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼進行？碳費徵收是不是能扣除2.5萬噸，所以請部長說明，未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額？"],["薛部長富盛：當初2.5萬噸有人提到應該把它列為扣除額，最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念，有人舉一個例子，比如這家公司排碳2.4萬噸……"],["林委員月琴：我只問你，未來你還會有這個2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定，但是後來有另外一個聲音是，假如扣除這2.5萬噸，這樣企業減碳的力道就會減少……"],["林委員月琴：這會由審議委員會來決定，是嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：現在好像是有兩股聲音，我們就交給碳費審議委員會來做決定，謝謝林委員。"],["林委員月琴：所以減碳是玩真的還是打假球？"],["薛部長富盛：當然是真的。"],["林委員月琴：為什麼環境部要用這個2.5萬噸，如果以這為起點，又因應第二十八條第二項電力業免繳碳費的情況下，我們只管到51%，如果是增加到2.5萬噸扣除額，只涵蓋到49%全國的排碳量，管制不到一半的排碳量，所以也很懷疑到底是玩真的還是打假球，所以讓人家感覺到是不是有一些消極心態，是不是可以告訴我們，向國人說明，目前未管制的範圍，到底環境部如何促進其減碳的作為？"],["薛部長富盛：外界因為不清楚，所以有一些誤解，事實上，我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳，特別是假如要能夠根據歐盟的SBT……"],["林委員月琴：部長，因為我時間有限。前一陣子你們開會講了好像很多優惠、誘因，「折扣非常非常大」這句話讓我們覺得滿擔心的。今天很高興聽到你們的審議委員會已經組成了，我想問一個問題，我每次看政府寫的法條都非常得好，到時候公民團體邀多少。我想問你的政府、學者、民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣，可不可以在這邊說明一下？"],["薛部長富盛：我們這次21位委員裡面，專家學者占8名，那民間團體裡面有工商團體、環團以及專業團體，譬如像會計師，另外工商團體以及環團反而好像是有3位還是4位，比例也還滿高的。"],["林委員月琴：就公民團體到底占多少？公民團體跟工商團體的大概比例上是如何？"],["薛部長富盛：公正團體是兩位……"],["林委員月琴：因為長久很多公民團體關心環保，他如果都不能進來跟你討論，那麼就不能夠切中要害。"],["薛部長富盛：但是我們還有專家學者以及政府部會，我目前所聽到的，我們昨天公布的名單，事實上好像社會應該也還滿認同的，因為我們涵蓋各個層面，我們當然希望委員會能夠考量多面的因素，除了環境永續……"],["林委員月琴：會後是不是可以提供我這個資料？"],["薛部長富盛：好，可以。"],["林委員月琴：還有一個是合理價格，碳費費率要有合理的價格，你的合理價格有沒有數字了？"],["薛部長富盛：沒有，這個應該是委員會的權限，我們就讓委員會來決定。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝林委員。"],["主席：環境部會後再將資料提供給林委員。"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請蘇清泉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":420,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-5","speakers":["黃秀芳","林月琴","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","王育敏","王正旭","林德福","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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\"所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 361.007, \"end\": 361.147, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 361.147, \"end\": 361.888, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 361.888, \"end\": 362.008, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 362.008, \"end\": 362.368, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"壓\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 362.368, \"end\": 362.568, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 362.568, \"end\": 363.128, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 363.128, \"end\": 363.308, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 363.308, \"end\": 363.589, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 363.589, \"end\": 364.529, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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\"業\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 368.431, \"end\": 368.531, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 368.531, \"end\": 370.032, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 370.032, \"end\": 370.232, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 370.232, \"end\": 370.313, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 370.313, \"end\": 370.793, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 370.793, \"end\": 371.313, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 371.313, \"end\": 371.613, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 371.613, \"end\": 371.813, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 371.813, \"end\": 372.214, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 372.214, \"end\": 372.654, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 372.654, \"end\": 373.294, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 373.294, \"end\": 373.695, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 373.695, \"end\": 373.895, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 373.895, \"end\": 374.035, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 374.035, \"end\": 374.295, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 374.295, \"end\": 374.535, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 374.535, \"end\": 374.835, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 374.835, \"end\": 375.115, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 375.115, \"end\": 375.416, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 375.416, \"end\": 376.436, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 376.436, \"end\": 376.556, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 376.556, \"end\": 377.117, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 377.117, \"end\": 377.297, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 377.297, \"end\": 377.577, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 377.577, \"end\": 378.477, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 378.477, \"end\": 378.637, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 378.637, \"end\": 378.878, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 378.878, \"end\": 379.418, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"競\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 379.418, \"end\": 379.678, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 379.678, \"end\": 381.139, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"徵\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 381.139, \"end\": 381.339, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 381.339, \"end\": 382.159, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 382.159, \"end\": 382.26, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 382.26, \"end\": 382.34, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 382.34, \"end\": 382.64, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 382.64, \"end\": 383.04, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 383.04, \"end\": 383.52, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 383.52, \"end\": 383.72, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 383.72, \"end\": 385.481, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 385.481, \"end\": 385.622, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 385.622, \"end\": 385.802, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 385.802, \"end\": 386.022, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 386.022, \"end\": 386.042, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 397.076, \"end\": 402.363, \"text\": \"而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 397.076, \"end\": 397.517, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"探\", \"start\": 397.517, \"end\": 398.198, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"徵\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 398.198, \"end\": 398.458, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 398.458, \"end\": 398.598, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 398.598, \"end\": 398.678, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 398.678, \"end\": 399.019, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 399.019, \"end\": 399.239, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 399.239, \"end\": 399.519, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 399.519, \"end\": 399.82, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 399.82, \"end\": 400.08, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 400.08, \"end\": 400.581, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 400.581, \"end\": 400.901, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 400.901, \"end\": 401.282, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 401.282, \"end\": 401.462, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 401.462, \"end\": 401.662, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 401.662, \"end\": 401.843, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 401.843, \"end\": 401.923, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 401.923, \"end\": 401.943, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 401.943, \"end\": 402.083, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 402.083, \"end\": 402.183, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 402.183, \"end\": 402.343, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 402.343, \"end\": 402.363, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"額\"}]}, {\"start\": 409.39, \"end\": 425.556, \"text\": \"給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 409.39, \"end\": 409.55, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 409.55, \"end\": 410.071, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 410.071, \"end\": 410.231, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 410.231, \"end\": 411.211, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 411.211, \"end\": 412.931, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 412.931, \"end\": 413.091, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 413.091, \"end\": 413.352, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 413.352, \"end\": 413.512, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 413.512, \"end\": 414.172, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 414.172, \"end\": 414.292, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 414.292, \"end\": 414.452, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 414.452, \"end\": 414.752, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 414.752, \"end\": 415.552, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 415.552, \"end\": 415.692, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 415.692, \"end\": 415.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 415.712, \"end\": 415.912, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 415.912, \"end\": 416.192, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 416.192, \"end\": 417.573, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 417.573, \"end\": 417.793, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 417.793, \"end\": 418.033, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 418.033, \"end\": 418.493, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 418.493, \"end\": 418.873, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 418.873, \"end\": 419.153, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"念\", \"start\": 419.153, \"end\": 419.714, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 419.714, \"end\": 419.874, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 419.874, \"end\": 420.534, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 420.534, \"end\": 420.634, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 420.634, \"end\": 421.054, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 421.054, \"end\": 421.294, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 421.294, \"end\": 421.454, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 421.454, \"end\": 421.634, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 421.634, \"end\": 421.774, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 421.774, \"end\": 422.114, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 422.114, \"end\": 422.274, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 422.274, \"end\": 422.455, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 422.455, \"end\": 422.695, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 422.695, \"end\": 423.075, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 423.075, \"end\": 423.455, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 423.455, \"end\": 423.635, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 423.635, \"end\": 423.875, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 423.875, \"end\": 424.035, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 424.035, \"end\": 424.215, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 424.215, \"end\": 424.375, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 424.375, \"end\": 424.475, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 424.475, \"end\": 425.135, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 425.135, \"end\": 425.295, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 425.295, \"end\": 425.375, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 425.375, \"end\": 425.435, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 425.435, \"end\": 425.536, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 425.536, \"end\": 425.556, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 430.197, \"end\": 440.05, \"text\": \"後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 430.197, \"end\": 430.898, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 430.898, \"end\": 431.238, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 431.238, \"end\": 431.379, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 431.379, \"end\": 431.519, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.519, \"end\": 431.819, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 431.819, \"end\": 432.36, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 432.36, \"end\": 432.48, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 432.48, \"end\": 432.7, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 432.7, \"end\": 432.921, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 432.921, \"end\": 434.242, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 434.242, \"end\": 434.783, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 434.783, \"end\": 435.824, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 435.824, \"end\": 436.686, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 436.686, \"end\": 436.846, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 436.846, \"end\": 437.026, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 437.026, \"end\": 437.326, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 437.326, \"end\": 437.487, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 437.487, \"end\": 437.647, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 437.647, \"end\": 437.747, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 437.747, \"end\": 438.147, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 438.147, \"end\": 438.348, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 438.348, \"end\": 438.568, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 438.568, \"end\": 439.189, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 439.189, \"end\": 439.369, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 439.369, \"end\": 439.529, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 439.529, \"end\": 439.709, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 439.709, \"end\": 440.03, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 440.03, \"end\": 440.05, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}]}, {\"start\": 442.717, \"end\": 466.848, \"text\": \"所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 442.717, \"end\": 442.897, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 442.897, \"end\": 443.098, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 443.098, \"end\": 443.238, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 443.238, \"end\": 444.418, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 444.418, \"end\": 445.118, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 445.118, \"end\": 447.279, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 447.279, \"end\": 447.399, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 447.399, \"end\": 447.539, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 447.539, \"end\": 447.8, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 447.8, \"end\": 447.96, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 447.96, \"end\": 448.44, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 448.44, \"end\": 448.64, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 448.64, \"end\": 449.04, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 449.04, \"end\": 449.18, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 449.18, \"end\": 449.36, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 449.36, \"end\": 449.62, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 449.62, \"end\": 450.461, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 450.461, \"end\": 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609.184, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,944 --> 00:00:17,933\n我們有請我們的學部長跟我們的氣候邊間署的蔡林怡署長請學部長跟蔡署長\n\n2\n00:00:21,505 --> 00:00:46,894\n林委員早部長我來自民間團體那也是一直在關心青少年青少年他們在講說他們主張說自己有權在清潔健康跟永續的環境當中生活環境就是我們的生命所以我們成年人應該要停止不屬於他們的未來來做決定也就是我們成年人不應該把一個尤其是要解決\n\n3\n00:00:48,308 --> 00:01:11,318\n因爲他們我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段因爲關係到我們的生命也就他們的生命所以他們想告訴成年人我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活我覺得要切記因爲環境跟我們未來孩子生活事實上非常大的關聯性那所以\n\n4\n00:01:14,153 --> 00:01:23,913\n在國家發展委會在111年3月30號就提出臺灣2050年要那個淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明\n\n5\n00:01:24,278 --> 00:01:49,848\n也訂定了2030年的那個減碳的目標在24%那台灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法將2050年的淨零排放目標入法並正式啟動碳費的徵收的一個機制全國都在關心你這碳費收費的標準何時收向誰收這些都是國人比較關心的\n\n6\n00:01:50,268 --> 00:02:10,800\n所以部長請問一下目前我們預估減碳的期程目標你有信心做到嗎是的事實上我們到目前為止都是按照我們的一定的進度來進行特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳匯匯率審議委員會那昨天媒體也已經鋪路我們21位的碳匯匯率委員\n\n7\n00:02:15,442 --> 00:02:26,808\n那等他們召開之後事實上我想碳費的標準就會有清楚提供工業界來在二全公約我們2014年齁臺灣國內法化之後那去年8月28日也\n\n8\n00:02:32,231 --> 00:02:54,007\n出了一個意見書叫做第26號意見書談的是他們的氣候權也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權他們同時也有表意權那來表達尤其是這邊也特別提醒說各國應該必須採取一切必要適當跟合理的措施來保護孩子免受與工商企業造成或者是延續跟氣候變遷有關的損害\n\n9\n00:02:55,788 --> 00:03:10,603\n那同時企業有責任尊重跟氣候變遷有關的兒童權利那就要來問部長如果在講氣候權的時候他們有表譽權那部長有關2050年淨零排放路徑方法實成是不是有跟青少年對話過\n\n10\n00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:27,680\n是的,事實上環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷特別是在我們2050年的部長我先提醒不是在教育裡面是這個政策這相關有沒有跟青少年充分的對話\n\n11\n00:03:29,576 --> 00:03:43,416\n因為他們關心這個地球未來是他們的那他們要在這邊生活我說特別提醒說青少年就有講過說我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活所以想問說你有沒有跟他們對話\n\n12\n00:03:46,017 --> 00:04:08,479\n給委員報告我們在第三期我剛有稍微提到就是說現在正在訂定的一個我們減碳的目標裡面事實上就有跟青少年去做一個溝通跟對話那過去事實上環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽包括如何\n\n13\n00:04:31,095 --> 00:04:57,244\n市長從臺大風險中心民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的。是。將近八成民眾事實上同意的因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來的比較糟糕的環境那我在從環境部這邊大概也看到就是我們已經事實上我們的發電業佔國內室溫氣體排放超過五成可是從氣候變遷因應法裡面第28條第二項\n\n14\n00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:19,877\n把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外當然理解因為用意是在避免我們增加發電業的負擔進而影響到物價可是也要問部長在這種排除的狀況下目前排碳業大宗就是發電業那環境部接下來怎麼約束改善\n\n15\n00:05:20,749 --> 00:05:40,977\n這個部分是不是就請你提出報告給我們這邊來下一頁也就是台灣到底準備好了嗎因為從我們台灣的企業端事實上充滿憂慮的因為有高達八成的企業感受到外界因為國際上的一些壓力包括歐盟已經提出我們的探邊境的\n\n16\n00:05:41,417 --> 00:05:47,662\n挑戰機制跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅所以國際遊戲來勢洶洶已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以想問臺灣在這種供應鏈當中佔有很重要的位置\n\n17\n00:06:01,007 --> 00:06:26,042\n所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼\n\n18\n00:06:37,076 --> 00:06:42,363\n而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額\n\n19\n00:06:49,390 --> 00:07:05,556\n給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎\n\n20\n00:07:10,197 --> 00:07:20,050\n後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸\n\n21\n00:07:22,717 --> 00:07:46,848\n所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免\n\n22\n00:07:49,389 --> 00:07:54,150\n一般的牌探量所以很懷疑到底是打真的還是假的所以\n\n23\n00:08:08,001 --> 00:08:25,748\n不知道讓人家感覺到是不是有一種消極心態是不是可以告訴我們像國人說明目前未管制的範圍到底環境部如何促進其檢探的作用給委員報告就是說外界因為不清楚所以有一些誤解\n\n24\n00:08:27,248 --> 00:08:37,085\n那事實上我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳特別是假如能夠根據歐盟的SBT部長因為我時間有限齁因為這邊前一陣子你們在開會好像\n\n25\n00:08:42,410 --> 00:09:07,592\n講了好像很多優惠誘因折扣非常非常大這句話讓我們覺得蠻擔心的吼那所以先問一個覺得你今天很高興聽到你們審議委員會已經組成了想問一個我每次很看政府的這種寫的法條都非常的好到時候公民團體要多少因為我想問你的政府學者民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣\n\n26\n00:09:08,052 --> 00:09:18,363\n可不可以在這邊說明一下給林委員報告我們這一次21位委員裡邊專家學者占8名那民間團體裡邊有工商團體環團以及專業團體譬如說像會計師\n\n27\n00:09:26,212 --> 00:09:47,595\n另外工商團體以及環團環的好像是有3位還是4位：比例也還蠻高的公民團體跟工商團體的差異大概比例上公共常常就很多公民團體關心環保他如果都不能進來跟你討論的話就不能夠切中要害\n\n28\n00:09:48,616 --> 00:10:07,984\n但是我們還有專家寫者以及政府這個部會我目前所聽到的我們昨天公布的名單事實上好像應該社會也還蠻認同的因為我們涵蓋各個層面那我們當然希望說委員會能夠考量多面的因素\n\n29\n00:10:09,084 --> 00:10:09,184\n接下來請蘇\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8944\t17933\t我們有請我們的學部長跟我們的氣候邊間署的蔡林怡署長請學部長跟蔡署長\n21505\t46894\t林委員早部長我來自民間團體那也是一直在關心青少年青少年他們在講說他們主張說自己有權在清潔健康跟永續的環境當中生活環境就是我們的生命所以我們成年人應該要停止不屬於他們的未來來做決定也就是我們成年人不應該把一個尤其是要解決\n48308\t71318\t因爲他們我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段因爲關係到我們的生命也就他們的生命所以他們想告訴成年人我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活我覺得要切記因爲環境跟我們未來孩子生活事實上非常大的關聯性那所以\n74153\t83913\t在國家發展委會在111年3月30號就提出臺灣2050年要那個淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明\n84278\t109848\t也訂定了2030年的那個減碳的目標在24%那台灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法將2050年的淨零排放目標入法並正式啟動碳費的徵收的一個機制全國都在關心你這碳費收費的標準何時收向誰收這些都是國人比較關心的\n110268\t130800\t所以部長請問一下目前我們預估減碳的期程目標你有信心做到嗎是的事實上我們到目前為止都是按照我們的一定的進度來進行特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳匯匯率審議委員會那昨天媒體也已經鋪路我們21位的碳匯匯率委員\n135442\t146808\t那等他們召開之後事實上我想碳費的標準就會有清楚提供工業界來在二全公約我們2014年齁臺灣國內法化之後那去年8月28日也\n152231\t174007\t出了一個意見書叫做第26號意見書談的是他們的氣候權也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權他們同時也有表意權那來表達尤其是這邊也特別提醒說各國應該必須採取一切必要適當跟合理的措施來保護孩子免受與工商企業造成或者是延續跟氣候變遷有關的損害\n175788\t190603\t那同時企業有責任尊重跟氣候變遷有關的兒童權利那就要來問部長如果在講氣候權的時候他們有表譽權那部長有關2050年淨零排放路徑方法實成是不是有跟青少年對話過\n192100\t207680\t是的,事實上環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷特別是在我們2050年的部長我先提醒不是在教育裡面是這個政策這相關有沒有跟青少年充分的對話\n209576\t223416\t因為他們關心這個地球未來是他們的那他們要在這邊生活我說特別提醒說青少年就有講過說我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活所以想問說你有沒有跟他們對話\n226017\t248479\t給委員報告我們在第三期我剛有稍微提到就是說現在正在訂定的一個我們減碳的目標裡面事實上就有跟青少年去做一個溝通跟對話那過去事實上環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽包括如何\n248899\t269701\t﹚\n271095\t297244\t市長從臺大風險中心民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的。是。將近八成民眾事實上同意的因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來的比較糟糕的環境那我在從環境部這邊大概也看到就是我們已經事實上我們的發電業佔國內室溫氣體排放超過五成可是從氣候變遷因應法裡面第28條第二項\n299500\t319877\t把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外當然理解因為用意是在避免我們增加發電業的負擔進而影響到物價可是也要問部長在這種排除的狀況下目前排碳業大宗就是發電業那環境部接下來怎麼約束改善\n320749\t340977\t這個部分是不是就請你提出報告給我們這邊來下一頁也就是台灣到底準備好了嗎因為從我們台灣的企業端事實上充滿憂慮的因為有高達八成的企業感受到外界因為國際上的一些壓力包括歐盟已經提出我們的探邊境的\n341417\t347662\t挑戰機制跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅所以國際遊戲來勢洶洶已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以想問臺灣在這種供應鏈當中佔有很重要的位置\n361007\t386042\t所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼\n397076\t402363\t而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額\n409390\t425556\t給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎\n430197\t440050\t後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸\n442717\t466848\t所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免\n469389\t474150\t一般的牌探量所以很懷疑到底是打真的還是假的所以\n488001\t505748\t不知道讓人家感覺到是不是有一種消極心態是不是可以告訴我們像國人說明目前未管制的範圍到底環境部如何促進其檢探的作用給委員報告就是說外界因為不清楚所以有一些誤解\n507248\t517085\t那事實上我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳特別是假如能夠根據歐盟的SBT部長因為我時間有限齁因為這邊前一陣子你們在開會好像\n522410\t547592\t講了好像很多優惠誘因折扣非常非常大這句話讓我們覺得蠻擔心的吼那所以先問一個覺得你今天很高興聽到你們審議委員會已經組成了想問一個我每次很看政府的這種寫的法條都非常的好到時候公民團體要多少因為我想問你的政府學者民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣\n548052\t558363\t可不可以在這邊說明一下給林委員報告我們這一次21位委員裡邊專家學者占8名那民間團體裡邊有工商團體環團以及專業團體譬如說像會計師\n566212\t587595\t另外工商團體以及環團環的好像是有3位還是4位：比例也還蠻高的公民團體跟工商團體的差異大概比例上公共常常就很多公民團體關心環保他如果都不能進來跟你討論的話就不能夠切中要害\n588616\t607984\t但是我們還有專家寫者以及政府這個部會我目前所聽到的我們昨天公布的名單事實上好像應該社會也還蠻認同的因為我們涵蓋各個層面那我們當然希望說委員會能夠考量多面的因素\n609084\t609184\t接下來請蘇\n","txt":"我們有請我們的學部長跟我們的氣候邊間署的蔡林怡署長請學部長跟蔡署長\n林委員早部長我來自民間團體那也是一直在關心青少年青少年他們在講說他們主張說自己有權在清潔健康跟永續的環境當中生活環境就是我們的生命所以我們成年人應該要停止不屬於他們的未來來做決定也就是我們成年人不應該把一個尤其是要解決\n因爲他們我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段因爲關係到我們的生命也就他們的生命所以他們想告訴成年人我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活我覺得要切記因爲環境跟我們未來孩子生活事實上非常大的關聯性那所以\n在國家發展委會在111年3月30號就提出臺灣2050年要那個淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明\n也訂定了2030年的那個減碳的目標在24%那台灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法將2050年的淨零排放目標入法並正式啟動碳費的徵收的一個機制全國都在關心你這碳費收費的標準何時收向誰收這些都是國人比較關心的\n所以部長請問一下目前我們預估減碳的期程目標你有信心做到嗎是的事實上我們到目前為止都是按照我們的一定的進度來進行特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳匯匯率審議委員會那昨天媒體也已經鋪路我們21位的碳匯匯率委員\n那等他們召開之後事實上我想碳費的標準就會有清楚提供工業界來在二全公約我們2014年齁臺灣國內法化之後那去年8月28日也\n出了一個意見書叫做第26號意見書談的是他們的氣候權也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權他們同時也有表意權那來表達尤其是這邊也特別提醒說各國應該必須採取一切必要適當跟合理的措施來保護孩子免受與工商企業造成或者是延續跟氣候變遷有關的損害\n那同時企業有責任尊重跟氣候變遷有關的兒童權利那就要來問部長如果在講氣候權的時候他們有表譽權那部長有關2050年淨零排放路徑方法實成是不是有跟青少年對話過\n是的,事實上環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷特別是在我們2050年的部長我先提醒不是在教育裡面是這個政策這相關有沒有跟青少年充分的對話\n因為他們關心這個地球未來是他們的那他們要在這邊生活我說特別提醒說青少年就有講過說我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活所以想問說你有沒有跟他們對話\n給委員報告我們在第三期我剛有稍微提到就是說現在正在訂定的一個我們減碳的目標裡面事實上就有跟青少年去做一個溝通跟對話那過去事實上環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽包括如何\n﹚\n市長從臺大風險中心民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的。是。將近八成民眾事實上同意的因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來的比較糟糕的環境那我在從環境部這邊大概也看到就是我們已經事實上我們的發電業佔國內室溫氣體排放超過五成可是從氣候變遷因應法裡面第28條第二項\n把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外當然理解因為用意是在避免我們增加發電業的負擔進而影響到物價可是也要問部長在這種排除的狀況下目前排碳業大宗就是發電業那環境部接下來怎麼約束改善\n這個部分是不是就請你提出報告給我們這邊來下一頁也就是台灣到底準備好了嗎因為從我們台灣的企業端事實上充滿憂慮的因為有高達八成的企業感受到外界因為國際上的一些壓力包括歐盟已經提出我們的探邊境的\n挑戰機制跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅所以國際遊戲來勢洶洶已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以想問臺灣在這種供應鏈當中佔有很重要的位置\n所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼\n而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額\n給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎\n後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸\n所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免\n一般的牌探量所以很懷疑到底是打真的還是假的所以\n不知道讓人家感覺到是不是有一種消極心態是不是可以告訴我們像國人說明目前未管制的範圍到底環境部如何促進其檢探的作用給委員報告就是說外界因為不清楚所以有一些誤解\n那事實上我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳特別是假如能夠根據歐盟的SBT部長因為我時間有限齁因為這邊前一陣子你們在開會好像\n講了好像很多優惠誘因折扣非常非常大這句話讓我們覺得蠻擔心的吼那所以先問一個覺得你今天很高興聽到你們審議委員會已經組成了想問一個我每次很看政府的這種寫的法條都非常的好到時候公民團體要多少因為我想問你的政府學者民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣\n可不可以在這邊說明一下給林委員報告我們這一次21位委員裡邊專家學者占8名那民間團體裡邊有工商團體環團以及專業團體譬如說像會計師\n另外工商團體以及環團環的好像是有3位還是4位：比例也還蠻高的公民團體跟工商團體的差異大概比例上公共常常就很多公民團體關心環保他如果都不能進來跟你討論的話就不能夠切中要害\n但是我們還有專家寫者以及政府這個部會我目前所聽到的我們昨天公布的名單事實上好像應該社會也還蠻認同的因為我們涵蓋各個層面那我們當然希望說委員會能夠考量多面的因素\n接下來請蘇\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.944 --> 00:17.933\n我們有請我們的學部長跟我們的氣候邊間署的蔡林怡署長請學部長跟蔡署長\n\n00:21.505 --> 00:46.894\n林委員早部長我來自民間團體那也是一直在關心青少年青少年他們在講說他們主張說自己有權在清潔健康跟永續的環境當中生活環境就是我們的生命所以我們成年人應該要停止不屬於他們的未來來做決定也就是我們成年人不應該把一個尤其是要解決\n\n00:48.308 --> 01:11.318\n因爲他們我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段因爲關係到我們的生命也就他們的生命所以他們想告訴成年人我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活我覺得要切記因爲環境跟我們未來孩子生活事實上非常大的關聯性那所以\n\n01:14.153 --> 01:23.913\n在國家發展委會在111年3月30號就提出臺灣2050年要那個淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明\n\n01:24.278 --> 01:49.848\n也訂定了2030年的那個減碳的目標在24%那台灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法將2050年的淨零排放目標入法並正式啟動碳費的徵收的一個機制全國都在關心你這碳費收費的標準何時收向誰收這些都是國人比較關心的\n\n01:50.268 --> 02:10.800\n所以部長請問一下目前我們預估減碳的期程目標你有信心做到嗎是的事實上我們到目前為止都是按照我們的一定的進度來進行特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳匯匯率審議委員會那昨天媒體也已經鋪路我們21位的碳匯匯率委員\n\n02:15.442 --> 02:26.808\n那等他們召開之後事實上我想碳費的標準就會有清楚提供工業界來在二全公約我們2014年齁臺灣國內法化之後那去年8月28日也\n\n02:32.231 --> 02:54.007\n出了一個意見書叫做第26號意見書談的是他們的氣候權也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權他們同時也有表意權那來表達尤其是這邊也特別提醒說各國應該必須採取一切必要適當跟合理的措施來保護孩子免受與工商企業造成或者是延續跟氣候變遷有關的損害\n\n02:55.788 --> 03:10.603\n那同時企業有責任尊重跟氣候變遷有關的兒童權利那就要來問部長如果在講氣候權的時候他們有表譽權那部長有關2050年淨零排放路徑方法實成是不是有跟青少年對話過\n\n03:12.100 --> 03:27.680\n是的,事實上環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷特別是在我們2050年的部長我先提醒不是在教育裡面是這個政策這相關有沒有跟青少年充分的對話\n\n03:29.576 --> 03:43.416\n因為他們關心這個地球未來是他們的那他們要在這邊生活我說特別提醒說青少年就有講過說我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活所以想問說你有沒有跟他們對話\n\n03:46.017 --> 04:08.479\n給委員報告我們在第三期我剛有稍微提到就是說現在正在訂定的一個我們減碳的目標裡面事實上就有跟青少年去做一個溝通跟對話那過去事實上環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽包括如何\n\n04:31.095 --> 04:57.244\n市長從臺大風險中心民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的。是。將近八成民眾事實上同意的因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來的比較糟糕的環境那我在從環境部這邊大概也看到就是我們已經事實上我們的發電業佔國內室溫氣體排放超過五成可是從氣候變遷因應法裡面第28條第二項\n\n04:59.500 --> 05:19.877\n把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外當然理解因為用意是在避免我們增加發電業的負擔進而影響到物價可是也要問部長在這種排除的狀況下目前排碳業大宗就是發電業那環境部接下來怎麼約束改善\n\n05:20.749 --> 05:40.977\n這個部分是不是就請你提出報告給我們這邊來下一頁也就是台灣到底準備好了嗎因為從我們台灣的企業端事實上充滿憂慮的因為有高達八成的企業感受到外界因為國際上的一些壓力包括歐盟已經提出我們的探邊境的\n\n05:41.417 --> 05:47.662\n挑戰機制跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅所以國際遊戲來勢洶洶已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以想問臺灣在這種供應鏈當中佔有很重要的位置\n\n06:01.007 --> 06:26.042\n所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼\n\n06:37.076 --> 06:42.363\n而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額\n\n06:49.390 --> 07:05.556\n給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎\n\n07:10.197 --> 07:20.050\n後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸\n\n07:22.717 --> 07:46.848\n所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免\n\n07:49.389 --> 07:54.150\n一般的牌探量所以很懷疑到底是打真的還是假的所以\n\n08:08.001 --> 08:25.748\n不知道讓人家感覺到是不是有一種消極心態是不是可以告訴我們像國人說明目前未管制的範圍到底環境部如何促進其檢探的作用給委員報告就是說外界因為不清楚所以有一些誤解\n\n08:27.248 --> 08:37.085\n那事實上我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳特別是假如能夠根據歐盟的SBT部長因為我時間有限齁因為這邊前一陣子你們在開會好像\n\n08:42.410 --> 09:07.592\n講了好像很多優惠誘因折扣非常非常大這句話讓我們覺得蠻擔心的吼那所以先問一個覺得你今天很高興聽到你們審議委員會已經組成了想問一個我每次很看政府的這種寫的法條都非常的好到時候公民團體要多少因為我想問你的政府學者民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣\n\n09:08.052 --> 09:18.363\n可不可以在這邊說明一下給林委員報告我們這一次21位委員裡邊專家學者占8名那民間團體裡邊有工商團體環團以及專業團體譬如說像會計師\n\n09:26.212 --> 09:47.595\n另外工商團體以及環團環的好像是有3位還是4位：比例也還蠻高的公民團體跟工商團體的差異大概比例上公共常常就很多公民團體關心環保他如果都不能進來跟你討論的話就不能夠切中要害\n\n09:48.616 --> 10:07.984\n但是我們還有專家寫者以及政府這個部會我目前所聽到的我們昨天公布的名單事實上好像應該社會也還蠻認同的因為我們涵蓋各個層面那我們當然希望說委員會能夠考量多面的因素\n\n10:09.084 --> 10:09.184\n接下來請蘇\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.944,"end":17.933,"text":"我們有請我們的學部長跟我們的氣候邊間署的蔡林怡署長請學部長跟蔡署長"},{"start":21.505,"end":46.894,"text":"林委員早部長我來自民間團體那也是一直在關心青少年青少年他們在講說他們主張說自己有權在清潔健康跟永續的環境當中生活環境就是我們的生命所以我們成年人應該要停止不屬於他們的未來來做決定也就是我們成年人不應該把一個尤其是要解決"},{"start":48.308,"end":71.318,"text":"因爲他們我們才是解決氣候變遷的關鍵手段因爲關係到我們的生命也就他們的生命所以他們想告訴成年人我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活我覺得要切記因爲環境跟我們未來孩子生活事實上非常大的關聯性那所以"},{"start":74.153,"end":83.913,"text":"在國家發展委會在111年3月30號就提出臺灣2050年要那個淨零排放路徑跟策略總說明"},{"start":84.278,"end":109.848,"text":"也訂定了2030年的那個減碳的目標在24%那台灣在去年也通過了氣候變遷因應法將2050年的淨零排放目標入法並正式啟動碳費的徵收的一個機制全國都在關心你這碳費收費的標準何時收向誰收這些都是國人比較關心的"},{"start":110.268,"end":130.8,"text":"所以部長請問一下目前我們預估減碳的期程目標你有信心做到嗎是的事實上我們到目前為止都是按照我們的一定的進度來進行特別是明天我們就要召開第一次的碳匯匯率審議委員會那昨天媒體也已經鋪路我們21位的碳匯匯率委員"},{"start":135.442,"end":146.808,"text":"那等他們召開之後事實上我想碳費的標準就會有清楚提供工業界來在二全公約我們2014年齁臺灣國內法化之後那去年8月28日也"},{"start":152.231,"end":174.007,"text":"出了一個意見書叫做第26號意見書談的是他們的氣候權也就是兒童有這樣的氣候權他們同時也有表意權那來表達尤其是這邊也特別提醒說各國應該必須採取一切必要適當跟合理的措施來保護孩子免受與工商企業造成或者是延續跟氣候變遷有關的損害"},{"start":175.788,"end":190.603,"text":"那同時企業有責任尊重跟氣候變遷有關的兒童權利那就要來問部長如果在講氣候權的時候他們有表譽權那部長有關2050年淨零排放路徑方法實成是不是有跟青少年對話過"},{"start":192.1,"end":207.68,"text":"是的,事實上環境教育裡面很重要的一部分是包括氣候變遷特別是在我們2050年的部長我先提醒不是在教育裡面是這個政策這相關有沒有跟青少年充分的對話"},{"start":209.576,"end":223.416,"text":"因為他們關心這個地球未來是他們的那他們要在這邊生活我說特別提醒說青少年就有講過說我們就是你們的後代如果你們把地球給毀了我們將在哪裡生活所以想問說你有沒有跟他們對話"},{"start":226.017,"end":248.479,"text":"給委員報告我們在第三期我剛有稍微提到就是說現在正在訂定的一個我們減碳的目標裡面事實上就有跟青少年去做一個溝通跟對話那過去事實上環境部在環境教育這一塊也舉辦了很多青少年的創意競賽包括如何"},{"start":248.899,"end":269.701,"text":"﹚"},{"start":271.095,"end":297.244,"text":"市長從臺大風險中心民眾其實對於氣候變遷能源轉型是有高度認知的。是。將近八成民眾事實上同意的因為避免後代子孫要承接我們所遺留下來的比較糟糕的環境那我在從環境部這邊大概也看到就是我們已經事實上我們的發電業佔國內室溫氣體排放超過五成可是從氣候變遷因應法裡面第28條第二項"},{"start":299.5,"end":319.877,"text":"把生產電力的直接排放源排除在外當然理解因為用意是在避免我們增加發電業的負擔進而影響到物價可是也要問部長在這種排除的狀況下目前排碳業大宗就是發電業那環境部接下來怎麼約束改善"},{"start":320.749,"end":340.977,"text":"這個部分是不是就請你提出報告給我們這邊來下一頁也就是台灣到底準備好了嗎因為從我們台灣的企業端事實上充滿憂慮的因為有高達八成的企業感受到外界因為國際上的一些壓力包括歐盟已經提出我們的探邊境的"},{"start":341.417,"end":347.662,"text":"挑戰機制跟美國清潔競爭法案即將在2027年課稅所以國際遊戲來勢洶洶已經讓我們臺灣企業也焦慮如熱鍋上的螞蟻所以想問臺灣在這種供應鏈當中佔有很重要的位置"},{"start":361.007,"end":386.042,"text":"所以這個轉型的壓力超過5成是來自國際的客戶要求但遺憾的目前只有兩成企業設定目標也只有4成進行我們的碳盤查落後國際事實上一大段的距離所以接下來我們國為了提高競爭力要徵收碳費那我們就要來問這個碳費到底接下來要怎麼"},{"start":397.076,"end":402.363,"text":"而稅務探費徵收是不是能有扣除2.5萬噸所以請部長說明未來是不是還有2.5萬噸的扣除額"},{"start":409.39,"end":425.556,"text":"給委員報告就是說當初2.5萬噸有人提到說應該把它扣除額最主要是根據類似所得稅的概念就是說有人舉一個例子比如說這家公司排碳2.4萬噸所以我一直問你未來你還會有這個嗎2.5萬噸的扣除額嗎"},{"start":430.197,"end":440.05,"text":"後來我們考量的結果應該還是要由碳費審議委員會去決定但是後來有另外一個聲音就是說假如你扣除這2.5萬噸"},{"start":442.717,"end":466.848,"text":"所以會有審議委員會來決定是嗎現在好像是有兩股聲音那我們就交給碳會審議委員會來做決定好謝謝林委員所以檢探是玩真的還是玩假球當然是真的為什麼從環境部這個要用2.5萬噸如果用這個起點的話那又因應我們的28條第二項的話電力業免"},{"start":469.389,"end":474.15,"text":"一般的牌探量所以很懷疑到底是打真的還是假的所以"},{"start":488.001,"end":505.748,"text":"不知道讓人家感覺到是不是有一種消極心態是不是可以告訴我們像國人說明目前未管制的範圍到底環境部如何促進其檢探的作用給委員報告就是說外界因為不清楚所以有一些誤解"},{"start":507.248,"end":517.085,"text":"那事實上我們最主要目的是要讓企業去推動自主減碳特別是假如能夠根據歐盟的SBT部長因為我時間有限齁因為這邊前一陣子你們在開會好像"},{"start":522.41,"end":547.592,"text":"講了好像很多優惠誘因折扣非常非常大這句話讓我們覺得蠻擔心的吼那所以先問一個覺得你今天很高興聽到你們審議委員會已經組成了想問一個我每次很看政府的這種寫的法條都非常的好到時候公民團體要多少因為我想問你的政府學者民間團體跟工商團體的比例到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":548.052,"end":558.363,"text":"可不可以在這邊說明一下給林委員報告我們這一次21位委員裡邊專家學者占8名那民間團體裡邊有工商團體環團以及專業團體譬如說像會計師"},{"start":566.212,"end":587.595,"text":"另外工商團體以及環團環的好像是有3位還是4位：比例也還蠻高的公民團體跟工商團體的差異大概比例上公共常常就很多公民團體關心環保他如果都不能進來跟你討論的話就不能夠切中要害"},{"start":588.616,"end":607.984,"text":"但是我們還有專家寫者以及政府這個部會我目前所聽到的我們昨天公布的名單事實上好像應該社會也還蠻認同的因為我們涵蓋各個層面那我們當然希望說委員會能夠考量多面的因素"},{"start":609.084,"end":609.184,"text":"接下來請蘇"}]}}}}