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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 760.588, \"end\": 760.608, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:01,991\n本席非常嚴肅地來表達本人的立場\n\n2\n00:00:19,735 --> 00:00:40,222\n對於國防的整經、備經、建造本席非常的支持但是昨天自由時報特別報導了臺東關山有關於開闢建造戰備跑道然後經過地方的縣長、首長\n\n3\n00:00:44,110 --> 00:00:48,857\n關山證供所裡面下午3點半來研討這個開闢建造戰備跑道的這個部分\n\n4\n00:00:54,386 --> 00:01:13,006\n因為在國防部的計畫拓展後的臺九縣關山路段新建站位跑到軍方3月12號下午3點關山證供所的地方說明會前農民高喊著是時守護田地\n\n5\n00:01:14,688 --> 00:01:35,013\n北緯的要求也是農民的要求在當地有非常多居民還有部落原住民的原基地所以當時縣長姚慶林及黃建斌立法委員也歷臨在領聽我們空軍常務長\n\n6\n00:01:40,875 --> 00:01:43,716\n陳述如何建造的戰略跑動。\n\n7\n00:01:55,502 --> 00:02:24,294\n臺九縣關山路段興建正面跑道是一個包裹裡的糖衣毒藥為什麼?待會兒我來做解釋那我想說聽聽你們的有關於關山路段興建正面跑道的興建計畫還有這個先前的一個溝通有什麼樣的方案請你說明一下我跟委員報告首先很感謝委員對建新備戰一個支持\n\n8\n00:02:25,334 --> 00:02:46,207\n第二個我要表達,國軍在這幾年來不管建軍備戰工作,一定會考量到地方建設或都會的發展。我舉一個很簡單的例子,早就有很多近線界的地方,不管山域要岸,我們一點點放出去,原因是來配合地方做一個毒色改善,事實上軍民是聯合在一道的。\n\n9\n00:02:46,727 --> 00:03:02,301\n第三我要表達這一回這條道路我記得前一陣子我也跟某一些同仁講過因為有道路所以我們評估在這個道路如果直或者寬度夠我們就建議在這上面有一段是站被跑道\n\n10\n00:03:03,261 --> 00:03:19,794\n並非要建戰備跑道做一條公路首先要做說明在空軍也積極的在跟地方政府的協調當中地方的要求、訴求我們也很清楚我想這都可以談如果說\n\n11\n00:03:21,335 --> 00:03:22,596\n我想請教國防部長\n\n12\n00:03:39,417 --> 00:03:53,149\n空軍當時如果有這樣的一個計畫先前的應該要以部落會議作為諮商因為在原基法的規定裡面在原基法的第21條那\n\n13\n00:03:55,791 --> 00:04:20,618\n我們21條裡面特別就是有關於開發或者是地方的建設必須要經過部落會議但是你們在規劃這個案子的時候完全還沒有經過部落會議包含居民的一個建議諮商所以你們有這樣的規劃是不是浪費了公帑然後\n\n14\n00:04:22,162 --> 00:04:47,513\n你再做一個說明到當地說明我覺得這樣子浪費時間因為不要以人民對立我想我的本身立場我非常贊同任何我們國防戰備或是整備的任何前瞻的計畫我非常的希望有一個建設那另外就是說我想\n\n15\n00:04:48,473 --> 00:05:16,472\n本席希望國防部能重新的考量檢討符合建金戰備的需求又能兼顧地方發展的配套方案請國防部長及交通部能夠再交換意見再找到一個折衷的方案然後派錢到本席辦公室來研究這個方案好不好\n\n16\n00:05:17,793 --> 00:05:34,871\n所以本席在這個地方特別反對我代表臺東的居民來表達跟國防部長表達反對建造在關山的戰備跑道一案\n\n17\n00:05:36,618 --> 00:05:51,846\n那另外特別要講的是我要把這個議題延伸到我們臺東的自行基地那這個自行基地的問題在於背後裡面的原住民的議題所以在\n\n18\n00:05:52,887 --> 00:06:13,652\n我看我們臺東空軍自航基地﹐該地在以臺灣日記時代的時候﹐並無任何機場的設置﹐而當時臺灣總督府方﹐方便嚴定計劃將自航基地所在區域利用炸藥挖空﹐建立大型的商港﹐\n\n19\n00:06:14,312 --> 00:06:34,543\n所以後來因為太平洋的戰事爆發而作廢那1960年代時任中華民國總統蔣中正有建議臺灣所處在於國際戰略地位的重要性並在對大陸地區的作戰態勢所以因此\n\n20\n00:06:36,504 --> 00:06:50,356\n臺海的海峽貴於宅小．西部各重要的軍事基地．完全暴露在當時中國人民解放軍．雷打軍事之下．讓各項空軍戰術行動亦失去．\n\n21\n00:06:54,079 --> 00:07:22,279\n所以十分不利於空軍戰力的保存那當時我們中華民國的國軍空軍的主力戰機部署在西部所以西部的第7的飛行因空役戰機過多容易飛行限定上產生不利所以才選擇了臺東我們國防部才選擇了臺灣臺東第7行走第4平潭可作為\n\n22\n00:07:23,123 --> 00:07:24,705\n當時這個治航基地就在1969年\n\n23\n00:07:43,820 --> 00:08:11,481\n以神醫計劃作戰計劃代號為開始規劃新的基地戰備計劃．空心在於工程1970年至動工．然後在1971年8月16日完工啟用．蔣中正親自基地命名為自航．所以當時在建蓋這個自航基地的時候．但沒有原基法\n\n24\n00:08:12,782 --> 00:08:31,797\n沒有延期法但是有一個部落原住民的部落叫嘉陸蘭部落嘉陸蘭部落就在你們的前方前方那個部落當時你們在建蓋那個時候因為戰備的需求而且情勢的緊張\n\n25\n00:08:33,078 --> 00:09:01,668\n所以當時就是建蓋在那個地方以替代把空軍的戰略能夠移到東部移到東部可是沒有想到那個地方的部落裡面產生了什麼噪音生活品質差然後加上空氣的污染造成了地方的這些反彈有很多次在這個地方抗議了很多次\n\n26\n00:09:02,808 --> 00:09:21,991\n但是我們國防部並沒有任何的回應20年前只贊助噪音20年前贊助了冷氣然後20年後聽說去年才補助一台冷氣所以如果按照我們\n\n27\n00:09:23,072 --> 00:09:28,737\n平東花蓮有關於軍用軍事基地的話一級450塊二級500塊23級600塊但能不能引用\n\n28\n00:09:38,906 --> 00:09:40,047\n部長也回答\n\n29\n00:09:59,182 --> 00:10:16,098\n我跟委員報告,委員對這個整個事情來龍去脈,真的很清楚,我也很敬佩,就是一定有當時的原因跟環境背景。那些很多事情造成了以後,我也很遺憾,就打著機場或者是道路來講,我們之前可能沒有做很好協調,我不知道。\n\n30\n00:10:16,658 --> 00:10:44,829\n但我們有句話,亡羊補牢,未完也。像剛才委員提到,不管戰備跑到,就要再去協調,還有這個基地如何來補償。據我了解,我們的噪音補償辦法都跟地方政府有協議。當初臺東這地方,劃歸也好,第一期已經補償完畢,第二期正在做當中。那這個當中也有一個協議講說,要等到第二期補償完畢以後,再把新的辦法放進來。\n\n31\n00:10:45,669 --> 00:11:05,707\n那這個當中能不能轉折,我想同樣的,可以經過一個溝通協調嘛。我們空軍願意在這一方面啊,很用力很努力的。部長,盡快的派員到我的辦公室來研究,好不好。因為這個經過了多少年,一直沒有辦法處理,可以處理的。因為現在來講,好,我們台中、嘉義、台南\n\n32\n00:11:07,055 --> 00:11:29,168\n岡山、台東等機場則是以噪音的補助所以如果按照等級加入欄應該理應本來就應該要補助的然後甚至水電費用因為本席認為有查到是噪音區內的有很多的老房子無稅級用地下水向零機接電\n\n33\n00:11:29,548 --> 00:11:29,568\n韓國瑜議員\n\n34\n00:11:48,615 --> 00:12:06,237\n在認定這個相關的補助的噪音的時候是從寬認定但是國防部在一百年接手之後是重演審查我說這樣的話是完全脫離了民意罔顧人民啊部長\n\n35\n00:12:07,871 --> 00:12:33,883\n我跟委員真的很抱歉但我要說明一點我們一切都改變與否要有一個程序一定要合法像剛剛委員講的軍方為什麼那麼強硬它不強硬因為法規因為我們以前也做很多與法外做商量可是出了問題以後軍方要背負責任而這個責任講起來蠻冤枉因為到了不管成敗人或到主管要受到責備或處分這個我們於心不忍\n\n36\n00:12:36,445 --> 00:12:40,608\n國防與人民應該站在一起,好不好?是,絕對站在一起,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝委員指導,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t1991\t本席非常嚴肅地來表達本人的立場\n19735\t40222\t對於國防的整經、備經、建造本席非常的支持但是昨天自由時報特別報導了臺東關山有關於開闢建造戰備跑道然後經過地方的縣長、首長\n44110\t48857\t關山證供所裡面下午3點半來研討這個開闢建造戰備跑道的這個部分\n54386\t73006\t因為在國防部的計畫拓展後的臺九縣關山路段新建站位跑到軍方3月12號下午3點關山證供所的地方說明會前農民高喊著是時守護田地\n74688\t95013\t北緯的要求也是農民的要求在當地有非常多居民還有部落原住民的原基地所以當時縣長姚慶林及黃建斌立法委員也歷臨在領聽我們空軍常務長\n100875\t103716\t陳述如何建造的戰略跑動。\n115502\t144294\t臺九縣關山路段興建正面跑道是一個包裹裡的糖衣毒藥為什麼?待會兒我來做解釋那我想說聽聽你們的有關於關山路段興建正面跑道的興建計畫還有這個先前的一個溝通有什麼樣的方案請你說明一下我跟委員報告首先很感謝委員對建新備戰一個支持\n145334\t166207\t第二個我要表達,國軍在這幾年來不管建軍備戰工作,一定會考量到地方建設或都會的發展。我舉一個很簡單的例子,早就有很多近線界的地方,不管山域要岸,我們一點點放出去,原因是來配合地方做一個毒色改善,事實上軍民是聯合在一道的。\n166727\t182301\t第三我要表達這一回這條道路我記得前一陣子我也跟某一些同仁講過因為有道路所以我們評估在這個道路如果直或者寬度夠我們就建議在這上面有一段是站被跑道\n183261\t199794\t並非要建戰備跑道做一條公路首先要做說明在空軍也積極的在跟地方政府的協調當中地方的要求、訴求我們也很清楚我想這都可以談如果說\n201335\t202596\t我想請教國防部長\n219417\t233149\t空軍當時如果有這樣的一個計畫先前的應該要以部落會議作為諮商因為在原基法的規定裡面在原基法的第21條那\n235791\t260618\t我們21條裡面特別就是有關於開發或者是地方的建設必須要經過部落會議但是你們在規劃這個案子的時候完全還沒有經過部落會議包含居民的一個建議諮商所以你們有這樣的規劃是不是浪費了公帑然後\n262162\t287513\t你再做一個說明到當地說明我覺得這樣子浪費時間因為不要以人民對立我想我的本身立場我非常贊同任何我們國防戰備或是整備的任何前瞻的計畫我非常的希望有一個建設那另外就是說我想\n288473\t316472\t本席希望國防部能重新的考量檢討符合建金戰備的需求又能兼顧地方發展的配套方案請國防部長及交通部能夠再交換意見再找到一個折衷的方案然後派錢到本席辦公室來研究這個方案好不好\n317793\t334871\t所以本席在這個地方特別反對我代表臺東的居民來表達跟國防部長表達反對建造在關山的戰備跑道一案\n336618\t351846\t那另外特別要講的是我要把這個議題延伸到我們臺東的自行基地那這個自行基地的問題在於背後裡面的原住民的議題所以在\n352887\t373652\t我看我們臺東空軍自航基地﹐該地在以臺灣日記時代的時候﹐並無任何機場的設置﹐而當時臺灣總督府方﹐方便嚴定計劃將自航基地所在區域利用炸藥挖空﹐建立大型的商港﹐\n374312\t394543\t所以後來因為太平洋的戰事爆發而作廢那1960年代時任中華民國總統蔣中正有建議臺灣所處在於國際戰略地位的重要性並在對大陸地區的作戰態勢所以因此\n396504\t410356\t臺海的海峽貴於宅小．西部各重要的軍事基地．完全暴露在當時中國人民解放軍．雷打軍事之下．讓各項空軍戰術行動亦失去．\n414079\t442279\t所以十分不利於空軍戰力的保存那當時我們中華民國的國軍空軍的主力戰機部署在西部所以西部的第7的飛行因空役戰機過多容易飛行限定上產生不利所以才選擇了臺東我們國防部才選擇了臺灣臺東第7行走第4平潭可作為\n443123\t444705\t當時這個治航基地就在1969年\n463820\t491481\t以神醫計劃作戰計劃代號為開始規劃新的基地戰備計劃．空心在於工程1970年至動工．然後在1971年8月16日完工啟用．蔣中正親自基地命名為自航．所以當時在建蓋這個自航基地的時候．但沒有原基法\n492782\t511797\t沒有延期法但是有一個部落原住民的部落叫嘉陸蘭部落嘉陸蘭部落就在你們的前方前方那個部落當時你們在建蓋那個時候因為戰備的需求而且情勢的緊張\n513078\t541668\t所以當時就是建蓋在那個地方以替代把空軍的戰略能夠移到東部移到東部可是沒有想到那個地方的部落裡面產生了什麼噪音生活品質差然後加上空氣的污染造成了地方的這些反彈有很多次在這個地方抗議了很多次\n542808\t561991\t但是我們國防部並沒有任何的回應20年前只贊助噪音20年前贊助了冷氣然後20年後聽說去年才補助一台冷氣所以如果按照我們\n563072\t568737\t平東花蓮有關於軍用軍事基地的話一級450塊二級500塊23級600塊但能不能引用\n578906\t580047\t部長也回答\n599182\t616098\t我跟委員報告,委員對這個整個事情來龍去脈,真的很清楚,我也很敬佩,就是一定有當時的原因跟環境背景。那些很多事情造成了以後,我也很遺憾,就打著機場或者是道路來講,我們之前可能沒有做很好協調,我不知道。\n616658\t644829\t但我們有句話,亡羊補牢,未完也。像剛才委員提到,不管戰備跑到,就要再去協調,還有這個基地如何來補償。據我了解,我們的噪音補償辦法都跟地方政府有協議。當初臺東這地方,劃歸也好,第一期已經補償完畢,第二期正在做當中。那這個當中也有一個協議講說,要等到第二期補償完畢以後,再把新的辦法放進來。\n645669\t665707\t那這個當中能不能轉折,我想同樣的,可以經過一個溝通協調嘛。我們空軍願意在這一方面啊,很用力很努力的。部長,盡快的派員到我的辦公室來研究,好不好。因為這個經過了多少年,一直沒有辦法處理,可以處理的。因為現在來講,好,我們台中、嘉義、台南\n667055\t689168\t岡山、台東等機場則是以噪音的補助所以如果按照等級加入欄應該理應本來就應該要補助的然後甚至水電費用因為本席認為有查到是噪音區內的有很多的老房子無稅級用地下水向零機接電\n689548\t689568\t韓國瑜議員\n708615\t726237\t在認定這個相關的補助的噪音的時候是從寬認定但是國防部在一百年接手之後是重演審查我說這樣的話是完全脫離了民意罔顧人民啊部長\n727871\t753883\t我跟委員真的很抱歉但我要說明一點我們一切都改變與否要有一個程序一定要合法像剛剛委員講的軍方為什麼那麼強硬它不強硬因為法規因為我們以前也做很多與法外做商量可是出了問題以後軍方要背負責任而這個責任講起來蠻冤枉因為到了不管成敗人或到主管要受到責備或處分這個我們於心不忍\n756445\t760608\t國防與人民應該站在一起,好不好?是,絕對站在一起,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝委員指導,謝謝\n","txt":"本席非常嚴肅地來表達本人的立場\n對於國防的整經、備經、建造本席非常的支持但是昨天自由時報特別報導了臺東關山有關於開闢建造戰備跑道然後經過地方的縣長、首長\n關山證供所裡面下午3點半來研討這個開闢建造戰備跑道的這個部分\n因為在國防部的計畫拓展後的臺九縣關山路段新建站位跑到軍方3月12號下午3點關山證供所的地方說明會前農民高喊著是時守護田地\n北緯的要求也是農民的要求在當地有非常多居民還有部落原住民的原基地所以當時縣長姚慶林及黃建斌立法委員也歷臨在領聽我們空軍常務長\n陳述如何建造的戰略跑動。\n臺九縣關山路段興建正面跑道是一個包裹裡的糖衣毒藥為什麼?待會兒我來做解釋那我想說聽聽你們的有關於關山路段興建正面跑道的興建計畫還有這個先前的一個溝通有什麼樣的方案請你說明一下我跟委員報告首先很感謝委員對建新備戰一個支持\n第二個我要表達,國軍在這幾年來不管建軍備戰工作,一定會考量到地方建設或都會的發展。我舉一個很簡單的例子,早就有很多近線界的地方,不管山域要岸,我們一點點放出去,原因是來配合地方做一個毒色改善,事實上軍民是聯合在一道的。\n第三我要表達這一回這條道路我記得前一陣子我也跟某一些同仁講過因為有道路所以我們評估在這個道路如果直或者寬度夠我們就建議在這上面有一段是站被跑道\n並非要建戰備跑道做一條公路首先要做說明在空軍也積極的在跟地方政府的協調當中地方的要求、訴求我們也很清楚我想這都可以談如果說\n我想請教國防部長\n空軍當時如果有這樣的一個計畫先前的應該要以部落會議作為諮商因為在原基法的規定裡面在原基法的第21條那\n我們21條裡面特別就是有關於開發或者是地方的建設必須要經過部落會議但是你們在規劃這個案子的時候完全還沒有經過部落會議包含居民的一個建議諮商所以你們有這樣的規劃是不是浪費了公帑然後\n你再做一個說明到當地說明我覺得這樣子浪費時間因為不要以人民對立我想我的本身立場我非常贊同任何我們國防戰備或是整備的任何前瞻的計畫我非常的希望有一個建設那另外就是說我想\n本席希望國防部能重新的考量檢討符合建金戰備的需求又能兼顧地方發展的配套方案請國防部長及交通部能夠再交換意見再找到一個折衷的方案然後派錢到本席辦公室來研究這個方案好不好\n所以本席在這個地方特別反對我代表臺東的居民來表達跟國防部長表達反對建造在關山的戰備跑道一案\n那另外特別要講的是我要把這個議題延伸到我們臺東的自行基地那這個自行基地的問題在於背後裡面的原住民的議題所以在\n我看我們臺東空軍自航基地﹐該地在以臺灣日記時代的時候﹐並無任何機場的設置﹐而當時臺灣總督府方﹐方便嚴定計劃將自航基地所在區域利用炸藥挖空﹐建立大型的商港﹐\n所以後來因為太平洋的戰事爆發而作廢那1960年代時任中華民國總統蔣中正有建議臺灣所處在於國際戰略地位的重要性並在對大陸地區的作戰態勢所以因此\n臺海的海峽貴於宅小．西部各重要的軍事基地．完全暴露在當時中國人民解放軍．雷打軍事之下．讓各項空軍戰術行動亦失去．\n所以十分不利於空軍戰力的保存那當時我們中華民國的國軍空軍的主力戰機部署在西部所以西部的第7的飛行因空役戰機過多容易飛行限定上產生不利所以才選擇了臺東我們國防部才選擇了臺灣臺東第7行走第4平潭可作為\n當時這個治航基地就在1969年\n以神醫計劃作戰計劃代號為開始規劃新的基地戰備計劃．空心在於工程1970年至動工．然後在1971年8月16日完工啟用．蔣中正親自基地命名為自航．所以當時在建蓋這個自航基地的時候．但沒有原基法\n沒有延期法但是有一個部落原住民的部落叫嘉陸蘭部落嘉陸蘭部落就在你們的前方前方那個部落當時你們在建蓋那個時候因為戰備的需求而且情勢的緊張\n所以當時就是建蓋在那個地方以替代把空軍的戰略能夠移到東部移到東部可是沒有想到那個地方的部落裡面產生了什麼噪音生活品質差然後加上空氣的污染造成了地方的這些反彈有很多次在這個地方抗議了很多次\n但是我們國防部並沒有任何的回應20年前只贊助噪音20年前贊助了冷氣然後20年後聽說去年才補助一台冷氣所以如果按照我們\n平東花蓮有關於軍用軍事基地的話一級450塊二級500塊23級600塊但能不能引用\n部長也回答\n我跟委員報告,委員對這個整個事情來龍去脈,真的很清楚,我也很敬佩,就是一定有當時的原因跟環境背景。那些很多事情造成了以後,我也很遺憾,就打著機場或者是道路來講,我們之前可能沒有做很好協調,我不知道。\n但我們有句話,亡羊補牢,未完也。像剛才委員提到,不管戰備跑到,就要再去協調,還有這個基地如何來補償。據我了解,我們的噪音補償辦法都跟地方政府有協議。當初臺東這地方,劃歸也好,第一期已經補償完畢,第二期正在做當中。那這個當中也有一個協議講說,要等到第二期補償完畢以後,再把新的辦法放進來。\n那這個當中能不能轉折,我想同樣的,可以經過一個溝通協調嘛。我們空軍願意在這一方面啊,很用力很努力的。部長,盡快的派員到我的辦公室來研究,好不好。因為這個經過了多少年,一直沒有辦法處理,可以處理的。因為現在來講,好,我們台中、嘉義、台南\n岡山、台東等機場則是以噪音的補助所以如果按照等級加入欄應該理應本來就應該要補助的然後甚至水電費用因為本席認為有查到是噪音區內的有很多的老房子無稅級用地下水向零機接電\n韓國瑜議員\n在認定這個相關的補助的噪音的時候是從寬認定但是國防部在一百年接手之後是重演審查我說這樣的話是完全脫離了民意罔顧人民啊部長\n我跟委員真的很抱歉但我要說明一點我們一切都改變與否要有一個程序一定要合法像剛剛委員講的軍方為什麼那麼強硬它不強硬因為法規因為我們以前也做很多與法外做商量可是出了問題以後軍方要背負責任而這個責任講起來蠻冤枉因為到了不管成敗人或到主管要受到責備或處分這個我們於心不忍\n國防與人民應該站在一起,好不好?是,絕對站在一起,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝委員指導,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:01.991\n本席非常嚴肅地來表達本人的立場\n\n00:19.735 --> 00:40.222\n對於國防的整經、備經、建造本席非常的支持但是昨天自由時報特別報導了臺東關山有關於開闢建造戰備跑道然後經過地方的縣長、首長\n\n00:44.110 --> 00:48.857\n關山證供所裡面下午3點半來研討這個開闢建造戰備跑道的這個部分\n\n00:54.386 --> 01:13.006\n因為在國防部的計畫拓展後的臺九縣關山路段新建站位跑到軍方3月12號下午3點關山證供所的地方說明會前農民高喊著是時守護田地\n\n01:14.688 --> 01:35.013\n北緯的要求也是農民的要求在當地有非常多居民還有部落原住民的原基地所以當時縣長姚慶林及黃建斌立法委員也歷臨在領聽我們空軍常務長\n\n01:40.875 --> 01:43.716\n陳述如何建造的戰略跑動。\n\n01:55.502 --> 02:24.294\n臺九縣關山路段興建正面跑道是一個包裹裡的糖衣毒藥為什麼?待會兒我來做解釋那我想說聽聽你們的有關於關山路段興建正面跑道的興建計畫還有這個先前的一個溝通有什麼樣的方案請你說明一下我跟委員報告首先很感謝委員對建新備戰一個支持\n\n02:25.334 --> 02:46.207\n第二個我要表達,國軍在這幾年來不管建軍備戰工作,一定會考量到地方建設或都會的發展。我舉一個很簡單的例子,早就有很多近線界的地方,不管山域要岸,我們一點點放出去,原因是來配合地方做一個毒色改善,事實上軍民是聯合在一道的。\n\n02:46.727 --> 03:02.301\n第三我要表達這一回這條道路我記得前一陣子我也跟某一些同仁講過因為有道路所以我們評估在這個道路如果直或者寬度夠我們就建議在這上面有一段是站被跑道\n\n03:03.261 --> 03:19.794\n並非要建戰備跑道做一條公路首先要做說明在空軍也積極的在跟地方政府的協調當中地方的要求、訴求我們也很清楚我想這都可以談如果說\n\n03:21.335 --> 03:22.596\n我想請教國防部長\n\n03:39.417 --> 03:53.149\n空軍當時如果有這樣的一個計畫先前的應該要以部落會議作為諮商因為在原基法的規定裡面在原基法的第21條那\n\n03:55.791 --> 04:20.618\n我們21條裡面特別就是有關於開發或者是地方的建設必須要經過部落會議但是你們在規劃這個案子的時候完全還沒有經過部落會議包含居民的一個建議諮商所以你們有這樣的規劃是不是浪費了公帑然後\n\n04:22.162 --> 04:47.513\n你再做一個說明到當地說明我覺得這樣子浪費時間因為不要以人民對立我想我的本身立場我非常贊同任何我們國防戰備或是整備的任何前瞻的計畫我非常的希望有一個建設那另外就是說我想\n\n04:48.473 --> 05:16.472\n本席希望國防部能重新的考量檢討符合建金戰備的需求又能兼顧地方發展的配套方案請國防部長及交通部能夠再交換意見再找到一個折衷的方案然後派錢到本席辦公室來研究這個方案好不好\n\n05:17.793 --> 05:34.871\n所以本席在這個地方特別反對我代表臺東的居民來表達跟國防部長表達反對建造在關山的戰備跑道一案\n\n05:36.618 --> 05:51.846\n那另外特別要講的是我要把這個議題延伸到我們臺東的自行基地那這個自行基地的問題在於背後裡面的原住民的議題所以在\n\n05:52.887 --> 06:13.652\n我看我們臺東空軍自航基地﹐該地在以臺灣日記時代的時候﹐並無任何機場的設置﹐而當時臺灣總督府方﹐方便嚴定計劃將自航基地所在區域利用炸藥挖空﹐建立大型的商港﹐\n\n06:14.312 --> 06:34.543\n所以後來因為太平洋的戰事爆發而作廢那1960年代時任中華民國總統蔣中正有建議臺灣所處在於國際戰略地位的重要性並在對大陸地區的作戰態勢所以因此\n\n06:36.504 --> 06:50.356\n臺海的海峽貴於宅小．西部各重要的軍事基地．完全暴露在當時中國人民解放軍．雷打軍事之下．讓各項空軍戰術行動亦失去．\n\n06:54.079 --> 07:22.279\n所以十分不利於空軍戰力的保存那當時我們中華民國的國軍空軍的主力戰機部署在西部所以西部的第7的飛行因空役戰機過多容易飛行限定上產生不利所以才選擇了臺東我們國防部才選擇了臺灣臺東第7行走第4平潭可作為\n\n07:23.123 --> 07:24.705\n當時這個治航基地就在1969年\n\n07:43.820 --> 08:11.481\n以神醫計劃作戰計劃代號為開始規劃新的基地戰備計劃．空心在於工程1970年至動工．然後在1971年8月16日完工啟用．蔣中正親自基地命名為自航．所以當時在建蓋這個自航基地的時候．但沒有原基法\n\n08:12.782 --> 08:31.797\n沒有延期法但是有一個部落原住民的部落叫嘉陸蘭部落嘉陸蘭部落就在你們的前方前方那個部落當時你們在建蓋那個時候因為戰備的需求而且情勢的緊張\n\n08:33.078 --> 09:01.668\n所以當時就是建蓋在那個地方以替代把空軍的戰略能夠移到東部移到東部可是沒有想到那個地方的部落裡面產生了什麼噪音生活品質差然後加上空氣的污染造成了地方的這些反彈有很多次在這個地方抗議了很多次\n\n09:02.808 --> 09:21.991\n但是我們國防部並沒有任何的回應20年前只贊助噪音20年前贊助了冷氣然後20年後聽說去年才補助一台冷氣所以如果按照我們\n\n09:23.072 --> 09:28.737\n平東花蓮有關於軍用軍事基地的話一級450塊二級500塊23級600塊但能不能引用\n\n09:38.906 --> 09:40.047\n部長也回答\n\n09:59.182 --> 10:16.098\n我跟委員報告,委員對這個整個事情來龍去脈,真的很清楚,我也很敬佩,就是一定有當時的原因跟環境背景。那些很多事情造成了以後,我也很遺憾,就打著機場或者是道路來講,我們之前可能沒有做很好協調,我不知道。\n\n10:16.658 --> 10:44.829\n但我們有句話,亡羊補牢,未完也。像剛才委員提到,不管戰備跑到,就要再去協調,還有這個基地如何來補償。據我了解,我們的噪音補償辦法都跟地方政府有協議。當初臺東這地方,劃歸也好,第一期已經補償完畢,第二期正在做當中。那這個當中也有一個協議講說,要等到第二期補償完畢以後,再把新的辦法放進來。\n\n10:45.669 --> 11:05.707\n那這個當中能不能轉折,我想同樣的,可以經過一個溝通協調嘛。我們空軍願意在這一方面啊,很用力很努力的。部長,盡快的派員到我的辦公室來研究,好不好。因為這個經過了多少年,一直沒有辦法處理,可以處理的。因為現在來講,好,我們台中、嘉義、台南\n\n11:07.055 --> 11:29.168\n岡山、台東等機場則是以噪音的補助所以如果按照等級加入欄應該理應本來就應該要補助的然後甚至水電費用因為本席認為有查到是噪音區內的有很多的老房子無稅級用地下水向零機接電\n\n11:29.548 --> 11:29.568\n韓國瑜議員\n\n11:48.615 --> 12:06.237\n在認定這個相關的補助的噪音的時候是從寬認定但是國防部在一百年接手之後是重演審查我說這樣的話是完全脫離了民意罔顧人民啊部長\n\n12:07.871 --> 12:33.883\n我跟委員真的很抱歉但我要說明一點我們一切都改變與否要有一個程序一定要合法像剛剛委員講的軍方為什麼那麼強硬它不強硬因為法規因為我們以前也做很多與法外做商量可是出了問題以後軍方要背負責任而這個責任講起來蠻冤枉因為到了不管成敗人或到主管要受到責備或處分這個我們於心不忍\n\n12:36.445 --> 12:40.608\n國防與人民應該站在一起,好不好?是,絕對站在一起,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝委員指導,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":1.991,"text":"本席非常嚴肅地來表達本人的立場"},{"start":19.735,"end":40.222,"text":"對於國防的整經、備經、建造本席非常的支持但是昨天自由時報特別報導了臺東關山有關於開闢建造戰備跑道然後經過地方的縣長、首長"},{"start":44.11,"end":48.857,"text":"關山證供所裡面下午3點半來研討這個開闢建造戰備跑道的這個部分"},{"start":54.386,"end":73.006,"text":"因為在國防部的計畫拓展後的臺九縣關山路段新建站位跑到軍方3月12號下午3點關山證供所的地方說明會前農民高喊著是時守護田地"},{"start":74.688,"end":95.013,"text":"北緯的要求也是農民的要求在當地有非常多居民還有部落原住民的原基地所以當時縣長姚慶林及黃建斌立法委員也歷臨在領聽我們空軍常務長"},{"start":100.875,"end":103.716,"text":"陳述如何建造的戰略跑動。"},{"start":115.502,"end":144.294,"text":"臺九縣關山路段興建正面跑道是一個包裹裡的糖衣毒藥為什麼?待會兒我來做解釋那我想說聽聽你們的有關於關山路段興建正面跑道的興建計畫還有這個先前的一個溝通有什麼樣的方案請你說明一下我跟委員報告首先很感謝委員對建新備戰一個支持"},{"start":145.334,"end":166.207,"text":"第二個我要表達,國軍在這幾年來不管建軍備戰工作,一定會考量到地方建設或都會的發展。我舉一個很簡單的例子,早就有很多近線界的地方,不管山域要岸,我們一點點放出去,原因是來配合地方做一個毒色改善,事實上軍民是聯合在一道的。"},{"start":166.727,"end":182.301,"text":"第三我要表達這一回這條道路我記得前一陣子我也跟某一些同仁講過因為有道路所以我們評估在這個道路如果直或者寬度夠我們就建議在這上面有一段是站被跑道"},{"start":183.261,"end":199.794,"text":"並非要建戰備跑道做一條公路首先要做說明在空軍也積極的在跟地方政府的協調當中地方的要求、訴求我們也很清楚我想這都可以談如果說"},{"start":201.335,"end":202.596,"text":"我想請教國防部長"},{"start":219.417,"end":233.149,"text":"空軍當時如果有這樣的一個計畫先前的應該要以部落會議作為諮商因為在原基法的規定裡面在原基法的第21條那"},{"start":235.791,"end":260.618,"text":"我們21條裡面特別就是有關於開發或者是地方的建設必須要經過部落會議但是你們在規劃這個案子的時候完全還沒有經過部落會議包含居民的一個建議諮商所以你們有這樣的規劃是不是浪費了公帑然後"},{"start":262.162,"end":287.513,"text":"你再做一個說明到當地說明我覺得這樣子浪費時間因為不要以人民對立我想我的本身立場我非常贊同任何我們國防戰備或是整備的任何前瞻的計畫我非常的希望有一個建設那另外就是說我想"},{"start":288.473,"end":316.472,"text":"本席希望國防部能重新的考量檢討符合建金戰備的需求又能兼顧地方發展的配套方案請國防部長及交通部能夠再交換意見再找到一個折衷的方案然後派錢到本席辦公室來研究這個方案好不好"},{"start":317.793,"end":334.871,"text":"所以本席在這個地方特別反對我代表臺東的居民來表達跟國防部長表達反對建造在關山的戰備跑道一案"},{"start":336.618,"end":351.846,"text":"那另外特別要講的是我要把這個議題延伸到我們臺東的自行基地那這個自行基地的問題在於背後裡面的原住民的議題所以在"},{"start":352.887,"end":373.652,"text":"我看我們臺東空軍自航基地﹐該地在以臺灣日記時代的時候﹐並無任何機場的設置﹐而當時臺灣總督府方﹐方便嚴定計劃將自航基地所在區域利用炸藥挖空﹐建立大型的商港﹐"},{"start":374.312,"end":394.543,"text":"所以後來因為太平洋的戰事爆發而作廢那1960年代時任中華民國總統蔣中正有建議臺灣所處在於國際戰略地位的重要性並在對大陸地區的作戰態勢所以因此"},{"start":396.504,"end":410.356,"text":"臺海的海峽貴於宅小．西部各重要的軍事基地．完全暴露在當時中國人民解放軍．雷打軍事之下．讓各項空軍戰術行動亦失去．"},{"start":414.079,"end":442.279,"text":"所以十分不利於空軍戰力的保存那當時我們中華民國的國軍空軍的主力戰機部署在西部所以西部的第7的飛行因空役戰機過多容易飛行限定上產生不利所以才選擇了臺東我們國防部才選擇了臺灣臺東第7行走第4平潭可作為"},{"start":443.123,"end":444.705,"text":"當時這個治航基地就在1969年"},{"start":463.82,"end":491.481,"text":"以神醫計劃作戰計劃代號為開始規劃新的基地戰備計劃．空心在於工程1970年至動工．然後在1971年8月16日完工啟用．蔣中正親自基地命名為自航．所以當時在建蓋這個自航基地的時候．但沒有原基法"},{"start":492.782,"end":511.797,"text":"沒有延期法但是有一個部落原住民的部落叫嘉陸蘭部落嘉陸蘭部落就在你們的前方前方那個部落當時你們在建蓋那個時候因為戰備的需求而且情勢的緊張"},{"start":513.078,"end":541.668,"text":"所以當時就是建蓋在那個地方以替代把空軍的戰略能夠移到東部移到東部可是沒有想到那個地方的部落裡面產生了什麼噪音生活品質差然後加上空氣的污染造成了地方的這些反彈有很多次在這個地方抗議了很多次"},{"start":542.808,"end":561.991,"text":"但是我們國防部並沒有任何的回應20年前只贊助噪音20年前贊助了冷氣然後20年後聽說去年才補助一台冷氣所以如果按照我們"},{"start":563.072,"end":568.737,"text":"平東花蓮有關於軍用軍事基地的話一級450塊二級500塊23級600塊但能不能引用"},{"start":578.906,"end":580.047,"text":"部長也回答"},{"start":599.182,"end":616.098,"text":"我跟委員報告,委員對這個整個事情來龍去脈,真的很清楚,我也很敬佩,就是一定有當時的原因跟環境背景。那些很多事情造成了以後,我也很遺憾,就打著機場或者是道路來講,我們之前可能沒有做很好協調,我不知道。"},{"start":616.658,"end":644.829,"text":"但我們有句話,亡羊補牢,未完也。像剛才委員提到,不管戰備跑到,就要再去協調,還有這個基地如何來補償。據我了解,我們的噪音補償辦法都跟地方政府有協議。當初臺東這地方,劃歸也好,第一期已經補償完畢,第二期正在做當中。那這個當中也有一個協議講說,要等到第二期補償完畢以後,再把新的辦法放進來。"},{"start":645.669,"end":665.707,"text":"那這個當中能不能轉折,我想同樣的,可以經過一個溝通協調嘛。我們空軍願意在這一方面啊,很用力很努力的。部長,盡快的派員到我的辦公室來研究,好不好。因為這個經過了多少年,一直沒有辦法處理,可以處理的。因為現在來講,好,我們台中、嘉義、台南"},{"start":667.055,"end":689.168,"text":"岡山、台東等機場則是以噪音的補助所以如果按照等級加入欄應該理應本來就應該要補助的然後甚至水電費用因為本席認為有查到是噪音區內的有很多的老房子無稅級用地下水向零機接電"},{"start":689.548,"end":689.568,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":708.615,"end":726.237,"text":"在認定這個相關的補助的噪音的時候是從寬認定但是國防部在一百年接手之後是重演審查我說這樣的話是完全脫離了民意罔顧人民啊部長"},{"start":727.871,"end":753.883,"text":"我跟委員真的很抱歉但我要說明一點我們一切都改變與否要有一個程序一定要合法像剛剛委員講的軍方為什麼那麼強硬它不強硬因為法規因為我們以前也做很多與法外做商量可是出了問題以後軍方要背負責任而這個責任講起來蠻冤枉因為到了不管成敗人或到主管要受到責備或處分這個我們於心不忍"},{"start":756.445,"end":760.608,"text":"國防與人民應該站在一起,好不好?是,絕對站在一起,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝委員指導,謝謝"}]}}}}