{"id":149835,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149835","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135fb303ebe3777bc2b836c7b9700c54b84f8ba9b0039caa7a6eef6df7d42f6b4155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:24:34 - 09:38:01","影片長度":"00:13:27","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳政忠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-3"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":807,"end_time":"2024-03-14T09:38:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T09:24:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":109,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時24分）謝謝主席，麻煩請吳主委。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員政忠：洪委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，延續剛剛萬委員所請教的，也就是到目前為止，賴清德總統當選人並沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務？"],["吳主任委員政忠：那個沒有聊過。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有聊過？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：大家也講了，因為之前在三讀的時候，數位發展部部長人選有選定唐鳳、郭耀煌及吳政忠（也就是您本人）。看起來大家好像對於數位發展部唐鳳部長，現在不管是藍營委員、綠營委員，甚至民眾也都覺得他真的是表現不如預期。國人都期待數位發展部能夠當做數位的領頭羊、當做科技的領頭羊，但目前看起來並沒有，您覺得您有沒有機會接下數位發展部部長的可能性？"],["吳主任委員政忠：這個機會是沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有？"],["吳主任委員政忠：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你，你也不會答應接受？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：你就是想要回學校？"],["吳主任委員政忠：不是回學校，而是回到社會當頭家。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你就是去意已決，是不是？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有想說要再繼續為國家服務？"],["吳主任委員政忠：在民間也可以為臺灣服務。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以這樣看起來，主委，我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭，到520之前不要是數饅頭的心態。"],["吳主任委員政忠：報告委員，我從來不會數饅頭。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要是待退老兵的心態。"],["吳主任委員政忠：不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：那本席就來請教你，昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的AI產業高峰論壇，也有講到未來百工百業引進生成式AI帶動產業的創新，你這邊也有提到臺灣有半導體的能量跟生成式AI，這可能是未來臺灣的機會，對不對？可是也有人講AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的，甚至馬斯克也講恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成缺電，到目前為止，臺灣還說下個月電費有可能又要調漲，請問您怎麼看？"],["吳主任委員政忠：生成式AI耗電是一個事實沒錯，但是不同國家、不同的產業有不同的先後次序，臺灣是在做它的一些server，包括晶片。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們有沒有去評估過如果之後臺灣要發展生成式AI這樣的方向及領域，預計用電會增加多少？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我跟委員報告，事實上用電也是一些生成式AI業者的考量，未來它用一定是散到我們的edge端，比如說你的筆電就可以用，你不會全部都跑到超級電腦去弄那個生成式人工智慧，那個變化的速度在去年忽然間跑出來以後，一年當中變了滿多，大家也注意到這個問題，所以它以後會散到各個edge，那edge的話，就是你在用的筆電，應該是會大幅地下降。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該是大幅下降，但是我們現在看到的還是這生成式AI畢竟大家都講它的用電還是往上增嘛！"],["吳主任委員政忠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：還有就是科學園區的部分，你也提到審議會應該會通盤檢討考量，但是到目前為止，大家也都說不準到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電，如果用電成本上升，但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮，臺灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話，那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀地看待今年科學園區的景氣或相關？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我們當然是謹慎以對、密切注意，但是在這一波生成式AI的起身階段，臺灣的半導體製造，剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該還可以有幾年的光景，在這幾年當中，我們應該要有一些對策是沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，現在傳出工業用電的漲幅可能會有15%到20%，兩天前你接受媒體訪問時提到相對來講還是覺得樂觀、沒有問題，請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面向經濟部詢問及討論？甚至幫科學園區請命？如果一次要漲15%到20%，你覺得這樣子廠商和業者能夠接受或是吃得消嗎？"],["吳主任委員政忠：在經濟部那邊的審議委員會，事實上，我們也不會直接去跟審議委員會提出一些要求……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以沒有辦法反映？"],["吳主任委員政忠：但是跟部長這邊應該是有溝通。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該是有溝通？什麼意思？"],["吳主任委員政忠：科學園區的公會跟經濟部這邊也會有……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在講的是主委身為國科會的大家長，你有沒有幫大家來請命或瞭解，還是去計算？因為之前你也講過，今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀，但現在傳出如果漲了電價15%到20%，可能又有缺電、跳電的疑慮，難道你不認為應該主動負起這個責任去做溝通嗎？"],["吳主任委員政忠：應該是，但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：至少讓經濟部也知道現在產業的情況。"],["吳主任委員政忠：科學園區的公會跟我們裡面的公司事實上與科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道，如果這個有問題一定會反映，來……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是來啦！主委，我現在在請教你，重點在於你本人要不要去做這件事情啦？"],["許處長增如：報告委員，補充說明一下，因為穩定供電關係到廠商的營運，其實整個國際能源價格事實上有些在做轉變。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在沒有需要你政令宣導，我現在講的是剛剛我們才詢問，就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘，不要有待退老兵的心態，如果你認為這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀，那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後，主動來跟……還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是？"],["吳主任委員政忠：很熟。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以要不要跟他溝通一下？"],["吳主任委員政忠：可以啦！這沒問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我再來請教一下，我們剛剛有討論AI的部分，去年7月的時候鄭文燦副院長就已經有講臺灣有可能在9月會推出人工智慧基本法，但之後又說確定難產，所以我們先來做生成式AI參考指引，對不對？本席昨天也有拿到參考指引的部分，我先請教我們的政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有使用生成式AI來執行業務或是提供服務的輔助工具？"],["吳主任委員政忠：事實上除了……"],["洪委員孟楷：就你們瞭解，各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在使用生成式AI是用得比較好的？"],["吳主任委員政忠：目前以我這邊的資料應該是沒有，據我所知。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以各機關、部會都還沒有使用生成式AI？"],["吳主任委員政忠：因為他們沒有跟我報告，但有可能有。"],["洪委員孟楷：那國科會呢？你們有沒有利用生成式AI來做一些資訊的處理，比如說彙整還是執行業務？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我跟委員報告，事實上生成式AI跟AI，其實我們本來就有在用AI，也就是我們在一些計畫、proposal的盤點本來就有用AI。去年在生成式AI出來以後比較大的就是用在翻譯或者是問一些問題，可以幫忙做一些摘要，我想我們同仁也會來用，但是機敏的資料我們是禁止去問ChatGPT。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在再請教的，譬如說國科會有沒有用生成式AI執行業務，為什麼會這樣請教？"],["吳主任委員政忠：執行業務……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為你的指引裡面其中一點有提到，因各機關使用生成式AI執行業務或是提供服務、輔助工具時應該適當揭露，對不對？本席就想請教，到目前為止沒有看到下面的任何一個資訊有提到這本文件是用生成式AI處理的，換言之，到底現在大家使用的狀況怎麼樣？"],["吳主任委員政忠：事實上跟委員報告，現在有一個TAIDE（即Trustworthy AI Dialogue Engine）是國科會在做，也就是幫各個部會、各行各業做一個念繁體中文的對話引擎，這是本身我們自己做的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我知道，你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的，對不對？4月有可能會出來嘛！"],["吳主任委員政忠：不是上市，是公開給業界。"],["洪委員孟楷：4月公開給民眾來使用，是不是？"],["吳主任委員政忠：不是民眾，因為那拿到各個公司還要去加上它的垂直應用才會比較細緻，因為OpenAI、ChatGPT那個是……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我們在同一個平行時空對話一下，好不好？我認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢，也認為如果善用這個工具會非常方便、好用。"],["吳主任委員政忠：瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：譬如說本席剛剛在準備資料的時候，我就打開ChatGPT打入人工智慧基本法的好處跟缺點，不到十秒鐘就整理出來了，它說好處可以保障使用者的權益、促進創新發展、規範產業標準跟防止濫用風險，但缺點是創新會受限、法律會落後、監管困難以及權責不對等。我現在請教，現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以520之前有沒有可能出來？在你卸任之前，為臺灣、為我們政府。"],["吳主任委員政忠：不可能。"],["洪委員孟楷：那什麼時候會有這樣的立法計畫？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我們原先預期在年底之前。"],["洪委員孟楷：今年年底？"],["吳主任委員政忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但那時候你已經不在啦？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我們的執政應該會延續。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我的意思是今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來，你現在的立法方向、程序、步驟？"],["吳主任委員政忠：我現在的這個角色是……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你可以現在講出來就是交代你們同仁，今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院，我們可以一起來審理，是不是？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席為什麼會那麼關心？就是因為本席也會有我的版本，我也希望能夠在今年年底的時候看到政院版的人工智慧基本法一起出來，我們可以共同來討論，為什麼？因為在全球生成式AI的發展來講，你也看到各行各業都受到影響，甚至好萊塢之前的罷工也是某種程度因為這個部分，所以還是要有我們國家自己的版本，這你同意嗎？"],["吳主任委員政忠：瞭解。我跟委員報告，歐盟是昨天已經通過議會，歐洲跟美國、日本、英國是不一樣的系統，臺灣剛好在中間，就是一個是創新，另外一個是風險，我們要拿捏……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們臺灣現在的方向會比較屬於往歐盟這邊來指引，還是往美國？"],["吳主任委員政忠：應該是somewhere between。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼意思？"],["吳主任委員政忠：因為我們要保障國家的利益。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，說實在話，這是立法院、中華民國國會殿堂，不是賣弄學術的地方，本席從開始質詢到現在，我都是準備那麼多充分的資料，就是希望可以跟你好好地溝通，跟好好地用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更瞭解我們現在國科會在做什麼，不是有知識分子的傲慢，所以本席最後請教，你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向，美國是一個方向，我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向？"],["吳主任委員政忠：應該比較靠近美國、日本跟英國這邊。"],["洪委員孟楷：美國、日本跟英國？"],["吳主任委員政忠：對，因為美國……"],["洪委員孟楷：英國也是歐盟。"],["吳主任委員政忠：英國不是歐盟，英國已經脫歐。英國、日本跟美國是先指引後法律，我們也在密切觀察國際的趨勢。事實上法案要提出來是很快啦！但還是有一些要跟外面來做一些協調。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以就是在今年年底以前會有政院版本出來？"],["吳主任委員政忠：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，吳主委請回。","我們現在請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-3","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","洪孟楷","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","葉元之","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","吳春城","范雲","吳思瑤","林倩綺","邱志偉","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","高金素梅"],"page_start":281,"meetingDate":["2024-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1131201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳政忠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131201_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"149835","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149835","tool":"pyannote","id":"149835-pyannote"},"job_id":"bYJMG9bUTGMoDqDa","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 805.288, \"end\": 805.959, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 805.959, \"end\": 806.122, \"score\": 0.617}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 806.122, \"end\": 806.366, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 806.366, \"end\": 806.549, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 806.549, \"end\": 806.569, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,329 --> 00:00:26,840\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委黃委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教導就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個\n\n2\n00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:55,367\n沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期\n\n3\n00:00:56,307 --> 00:01:21,846\n國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技的領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家\n\n4\n00:01:24,142 --> 00:01:26,645\n主委,我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦。\n\n5\n00:01:41,202 --> 00:01:47,105\n昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來是台灣的機會對不對\n\n6\n00:02:10,276 --> 00:02:26,512\n但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看\n\n7\n00:02:32,113 --> 00:02:55,269\n生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少\n\n8\n00:02:55,829 --> 00:03:18,249\n我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個\n\n9\n00:03:19,070 --> 00:03:24,371\n應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛\n\n10\n00:03:44,336 --> 00:04:09,074\n還有就是說我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣\n\n11\n00:04:11,484 --> 00:04:35,286\n我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯\n\n12\n00:04:36,844 --> 00:04:52,527\n主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個\n\n13\n00:04:55,384 --> 00:05:14,910\n詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求所以沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有\n\n14\n00:05:18,792 --> 00:05:45,008\n應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮\n\n15\n00:05:46,411 --> 00:06:15,925\n但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎?應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦\n\n16\n00:06:17,970 --> 00:06:46,396\n報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做是我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是\n\n17\n00:06:50,137 --> 00:06:56,941\n很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊這沒問題\n\n18\n00:06:59,815 --> 00:07:21,226\n各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考質疑對不對\n\n19\n00:07:22,928 --> 00:07:45,186\n本集昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的\n\n20\n00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:57,450\n目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用深層式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告\n\n21\n00:07:59,468 --> 00:08:23,578\n有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年\n\n22\n00:08:24,198 --> 00:08:26,741\n我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CII執行業務\n\n23\n00:08:43,198 --> 00:09:05,009\n為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理\n\n24\n00:09:06,556 --> 00:09:22,702\n所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台者就是TrustworthAIDialogEngine是國科會在做也就是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic念繁體中文的對話引擎\n\n25\n00:09:23,522 --> 00:09:51,989\n那這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對4月有可能會出來嘛是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個openAIcheckGPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯\n\n26\n00:09:52,589 --> 00:10:02,918\n本席剛剛我也認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在\n\n27\n00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:05,778\n午前午前午前午前\n\n28\n00:10:24,117 --> 00:10:48,755\n創新會受限﹑法律會落後﹑還有監管困難以及權責不對等好那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底\n\n29\n00:10:49,295 --> 00:11:17,893\n但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續了應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決策是所以你可以現在講出來就是說也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有\n\n30\n00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:19,053\n我跟委員報告嗎?\n\n31\n00:11:44,974 --> 00:12:13,466\n各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是風險那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該somewherebetween什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益不是主委\n\n32\n00:12:15,627 --> 00:12:40,399\n說實在話這是立法院、中華民國、國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子的傲慢\n\n33\n00:12:41,676 --> 00:12:53,028\n所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊\n\n34\n00:12:54,454 --> 00:12:56,775\n好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝\n\n35\n00:13:25,288 --> 00:13:26,569\n好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9329\t26840\t主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委黃委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教導就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個\n30100\t55367\t沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期\n56307\t81846\t國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技的領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家\n84142\t86645\t主委,我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦。\n101202\t107105\t昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來是台灣的機會對不對\n130276\t146512\t但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看\n152113\t175269\t生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少\n175829\t198249\t我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個\n199070\t204371\t應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛\n224336\t249074\t還有就是說我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣\n251484\t275286\t我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯\n276844\t292527\t主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個\n295384\t314910\t詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求所以沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有\n318792\t345008\t應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮\n346411\t375925\t但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎?應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦\n377970\t406396\t報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做是我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是\n410137\t416941\t很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊 這沒問題\n419815\t441226\t各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考質疑對不對\n442928\t465186\t本集昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的\n466260\t477450\t目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用深層式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告\n479468\t503578\t有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年\n504198\t506741\t我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CII執行業務\n523198\t545009\t為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露 對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理\n546556\t562702\t所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台者就是Trustworth AI Dialog Engine是國科會在做也就是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic 念繁體中文的對話引擎\n563522\t591989\t那這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對4月有可能會出來嘛是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個open AI check GPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯\n592589\t602918\t本席剛剛我也認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在\n604437\t605778\t午前午前午前午前\n624117\t648755\t創新會受限﹑法律會落後﹑還有監管困難以及權責不對等好 那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底\n649295\t677893\t但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續了應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決策是所以你可以現在講出來就是說也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有\n678553\t679053\t我跟委員報告嗎?\n704974\t733466\t各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是風險那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該 somewhere between什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益不是 主委\n735627\t760399\t說實在話這是立法院、中華民國、國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子的傲慢\n761676\t773028\t所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊\n774454\t776775\t好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝\n805288\t806569\t好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委黃委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教導就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個\n沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期\n國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技的領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家\n主委,我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦。\n昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來是台灣的機會對不對\n但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看\n生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少\n我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個\n應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛\n還有就是說我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣\n我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯\n主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個\n詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求所以沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有\n應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮\n但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎?應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦\n報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做是我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是\n很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊 這沒問題\n各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考質疑對不對\n本集昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的\n目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用深層式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告\n有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年\n我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CII執行業務\n為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露 對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理\n所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台者就是Trustworth AI Dialog Engine是國科會在做也就是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic 念繁體中文的對話引擎\n那這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對4月有可能會出來嘛是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個open AI check GPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯\n本席剛剛我也認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在\n午前午前午前午前\n創新會受限﹑法律會落後﹑還有監管困難以及權責不對等好 那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底\n但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續了應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決策是所以你可以現在講出來就是說也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有\n我跟委員報告嗎?\n各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是風險那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該 somewhere between什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益不是 主委\n說實在話這是立法院、中華民國、國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子的傲慢\n所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊\n好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝\n好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.329 --> 00:26.840\n主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委黃委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教導就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個\n\n00:30.100 --> 00:55.367\n沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期\n\n00:56.307 --> 01:21.846\n國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技的領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家\n\n01:24.142 --> 01:26.645\n主委,我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦。\n\n01:41.202 --> 01:47.105\n昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來是台灣的機會對不對\n\n02:10.276 --> 02:26.512\n但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看\n\n02:32.113 --> 02:55.269\n生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少\n\n02:55.829 --> 03:18.249\n我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個\n\n03:19.070 --> 03:24.371\n應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛\n\n03:44.336 --> 04:09.074\n還有就是說我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣\n\n04:11.484 --> 04:35.286\n我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯\n\n04:36.844 --> 04:52.527\n主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個\n\n04:55.384 --> 05:14.910\n詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求所以沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有\n\n05:18.792 --> 05:45.008\n應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮\n\n05:46.411 --> 06:15.925\n但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎?應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦\n\n06:17.970 --> 06:46.396\n報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做是我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是\n\n06:50.137 --> 06:56.941\n很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊這沒問題\n\n06:59.815 --> 07:21.226\n各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考質疑對不對\n\n07:22.928 --> 07:45.186\n本集昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的\n\n07:46.260 --> 07:57.450\n目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用深層式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告\n\n07:59.468 --> 08:23.578\n有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年\n\n08:24.198 --> 08:26.741\n我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CII執行業務\n\n08:43.198 --> 09:05.009\n為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理\n\n09:06.556 --> 09:22.702\n所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台者就是TrustworthAIDialogEngine是國科會在做也就是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic念繁體中文的對話引擎\n\n09:23.522 --> 09:51.989\n那這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對4月有可能會出來嘛是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個openAIcheckGPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯\n\n09:52.589 --> 10:02.918\n本席剛剛我也認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在\n\n10:04.437 --> 10:05.778\n午前午前午前午前\n\n10:24.117 --> 10:48.755\n創新會受限﹑法律會落後﹑還有監管困難以及權責不對等好那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底\n\n10:49.295 --> 11:17.893\n但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續了應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決策是所以你可以現在講出來就是說也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有\n\n11:18.553 --> 11:19.053\n我跟委員報告嗎?\n\n11:44.974 --> 12:13.466\n各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是風險那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該somewherebetween什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益不是主委\n\n12:15.627 --> 12:40.399\n說實在話這是立法院、中華民國、國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子的傲慢\n\n12:41.676 --> 12:53.028\n所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊\n\n12:54.454 --> 12:56.775\n好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝\n\n13:25.288 --> 13:26.569\n好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.329,"end":26.84,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委黃委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教導就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個"},{"start":30.1,"end":55.367,"text":"沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期"},{"start":56.307,"end":81.846,"text":"國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技的領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家"},{"start":84.142,"end":86.645,"text":"主委,我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦。"},{"start":101.202,"end":107.105,"text":"昨天你們有辦一個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來是台灣的機會對不對"},{"start":130.276,"end":146.512,"text":"但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看"},{"start":152.113,"end":175.269,"text":"生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少"},{"start":175.829,"end":198.249,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個"},{"start":199.07,"end":204.371,"text":"應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛"},{"start":224.336,"end":249.074,"text":"還有就是說我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣"},{"start":251.484,"end":275.286,"text":"我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯"},{"start":276.844,"end":292.527,"text":"主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個"},{"start":295.384,"end":314.91,"text":"詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求所以沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有"},{"start":318.792,"end":345.008,"text":"應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮"},{"start":346.411,"end":375.925,"text":"但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎?應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦"},{"start":377.97,"end":406.396,"text":"報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做是我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是"},{"start":410.137,"end":416.941,"text":"很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊 這沒問題"},{"start":419.815,"end":441.226,"text":"各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考質疑對不對"},{"start":442.928,"end":465.186,"text":"本集昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的"},{"start":466.26,"end":477.45,"text":"目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用深層式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告"},{"start":479.468,"end":503.578,"text":"有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年"},{"start":504.198,"end":506.741,"text":"我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CII執行業務"},{"start":523.198,"end":545.009,"text":"為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露 對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理"},{"start":546.556,"end":562.702,"text":"所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台者就是Trustworth AI Dialog Engine是國科會在做也就是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic 念繁體中文的對話引擎"},{"start":563.522,"end":591.989,"text":"那這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對4月有可能會出來嘛是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個open AI check GPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯"},{"start":592.589,"end":602.918,"text":"本席剛剛我也認為生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在"},{"start":604.437,"end":605.778,"text":"午前午前午前午前"},{"start":624.117,"end":648.755,"text":"創新會受限﹑法律會落後﹑還有監管困難以及權責不對等好 那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嘛是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底"},{"start":649.295,"end":677.893,"text":"但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續了應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底你怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決策是所以你可以現在講出來就是說也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有"},{"start":678.553,"end":679.053,"text":"我跟委員報告嗎?"},{"start":704.974,"end":733.466,"text":"各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是風險那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該 somewhere between什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益不是 主委"},{"start":735.627,"end":760.399,"text":"說實在話這是立法院、中華民國、國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子的傲慢"},{"start":761.676,"end":773.028,"text":"所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊"},{"start":774.454,"end":776.775,"text":"好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝"},{"start":805.288,"end":806.569,"text":"好謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}}}