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10:26:51","影片長度":"00:08:02","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":482,"end_time":"2024-03-14T10:26:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T10:18:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":456,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時18分）主席，首先我也想要表達一下，雖然我剛剛錯過了，但是我想大家都將心比心，希望大家都能夠互相維持一下委員質詢的權益。","接下來我請王部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我想要再請問您一次，台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由？"],["王部長美花：台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本，所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻……"],["張委員嘉郡：難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎？"],["王部長美花：就是因為國際的燃料成本確實漲得非常多，所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本。"],["張委員嘉郡：113年度台電的幾種燃料費用，核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等，占比最高的是什麼？"],["王部長美花：113年應該是燃氣。"],["張委員嘉郡：天然氣，沒錯就是占了61%，既然占了61%，您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎？"],["王部長美花：跟中油買的。"],["張委員嘉郡：是的，就是跟中油買的，中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權，所以請教部長，台電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少？"],["王部長美花：中油會按照相關情形跟國際狀況去做變動。"],["張委員嘉郡：我告訴你答案，每立方公尺15.75塊，你應該可以看得到，你仔細看一看，電業用戶15.75塊，也就是說這個牌價賣給台電是最貴的，甚至比汽電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格，為什麼？"],["王部長美花：目前中油賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生，那我們確實……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，你自己看一看，這比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格，所以賣給台電是最貴的，這等於是左手賣給右手，都是經濟部所屬的公司，然後現在台電說虧損了，又要全民漲電價，這不都是讓全民買單嗎？"],["王部長美花：就天然氣的部分，我們在民生跟工業部分，因為穩定物價的關係，確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準，台電的部分，中油也有降……"],["張委員嘉郡：我不能理解的是，中油賣給台電怎麼會這麼貴，然後賣給一般用戶便宜這麼多？台電跟中油等於是經濟部、國內能源的左右手，左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢，然後右手哭哭說：我受不了了！我要漲電價，要拉高價格向人民揩油，這樣說的過去嗎？這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民揩油，要人民買單嗎？"],["王部長美花：應該不能這樣講，因為中油賣給台電，過往其實國際非常貴的時候，他也沒有反應充足的成本……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以呢……"],["王部長美花：第二個，在民生部分，像委員也一直提到包括桶裝瓦斯不要漲，所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯。"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在想要提的就是，所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1,500億補貼之外，應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣價格，您同意嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個部分其實都有緩步在調降。"],["張委員嘉郡：我是不是也請李董事長？"],["李董事長順欽：委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降，你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降？"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，事實上從去年3月開始，我們對台電的天然氣價格已經調降了6次，最高是在20塊3毛6，現在已經逐步降到15塊，我講的是未含稅。這裡面我們已經將近3年，民生公用這邊沒有調整，從110年6月開始，這部分我們就是為了穩定物價，所以民生公用部分我們就維持8塊3毛5。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席拜託李董，我知道您是從基層做起，這一點希望你務必用專業，一定要能夠調降這個價格，讓台電能夠止損，希望它可以不要再繼續虧損，等於是不要再繼續……像明年，假設明年我們還要再補貼它，真的，我很難想像，如果假設明年還要再漲電價，我們國家真的是吃不消。","部長，我在這裡還是要再一次訴求，希望除了桶裝瓦斯不要漲之外，用電330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲，包括農漁牧用電不要調漲。這一點，部長，是不是可以拜託您？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，在電價審議委員會對很多的參數跟因素，我們都會很仔細地考量。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，特別再一次地呼籲，也特別再一次地拜託。","我也想趁這個機會，因為現在綠能其實有很多很多的弊案也好，或者是人民的疑惑也好，就是在我們雲林縣現在有很多土地都被劃為低地利，而且是在沒有跟地方溝通之下就被劃為低地利，很多土地明明都還在耕作，就被劃為低地利，這一點引起地方很多的反彈。甚至以口湖鄉為例，口湖鄉一個鄉就被劃了2,000多公頃，它整個鄉等於是三分之一都被劃為低地利，等於不鼓勵它生產、不鼓勵它養殖，整個鄉為之沸騰。部長怎麼看這件事情？"],["王部長美花：事實上農業部在認定它是低地利都非常謹慎，另外假設農民還有在農作的部分，這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做相關的能源，其實都會參考它現在的實際使用狀況，並不是講了就一定都會去把它變更成相關的供電……"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在想要提醒經濟部，在規劃過程必須考慮到這些人的心聲，不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者。"],["王部長美花：不會，如果它還在農作的部分，這個我們相關部會在審的時候一定都會考慮。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，特別拜託，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員。接下來請鄭正鈐委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 470.403, \"end\": 470.423, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,588 --> 00:00:23,432\n主席我首先也想要表達一下雖然我剛剛是錯過了但是我想我們大家都將心比心希望大家都能夠互相維持一下這個委員的質詢的權益那我是接下來請王部長來請王部長\n\n2\n00:00:27,728 --> 00:00:38,011\n部長我想要再請問您一次我們台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由?\n\n3\n00:00:39,845 --> 00:00:43,707\n台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎就是因為國際的燃料成本確實是漲得非常多所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本113年度台電\n\n4\n00:01:03,237 --> 00:01:26,271\n的這個幾種燃料費用核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等佔比最高的是什麼?113年的部分應該是燃氣的部分天然氣沒錯就是佔了61%那既然佔了61%您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:27,807 --> 00:01:32,911\n臺電跟中油買的?是的,就是跟中油買的。中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權所以請教部長臺電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少?這個中油是會按照他的相關的情形跟國際的狀況去做變動\n\n6\n00:01:53,125 --> 00:01:59,408\n15.75塊每立方公尺15.75塊每立方公尺應該可以看得到你仔細看一看電業用戶15.75塊這一個牌價這就是說賣給台電是最貴的甚至比氣電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格為什麼\n\n7\n00:02:23,808 --> 00:02:46,812\n目前的這個中油它賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生。那我們確實...你自己看一看比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格所以賣給台電是最貴的然後所以這等於是說左手賣右手都是你經濟部所屬的公司然後現在台電說虧損了\n\n8\n00:02:50,188 --> 00:02:54,679\n然後要全民漲電價這不是都是讓全民買單嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:57,855 --> 00:03:12,063\n就相關的這個天然氣的部分我們確實在民生跟工業的部分因為穩定物價的關係確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準我不能理解的是說怎麼會我們中油賣給台電這麼貴然後賣給一般的用戶便宜這麼多\n\n10\n00:03:24,350 --> 00:03:31,216\n等於是臺電跟中油是經濟部國內能源的左右手左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢然後右手哭哭說我受不了了我要漲電價然後要拉高這個價格要向人民卡油\n\n11\n00:03:43,067 --> 00:03:43,107\n這樣說得過去嗎?\n\n12\n00:03:43,107 --> 00:03:44,968\n這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民卡油讓人民買單嗎?應該不能這樣講齁因為中油賣給台電的部分在這個過往他其實國際非常貴的時候\n\n13\n00:03:58,658 --> 00:04:10,702\n他也沒有反映充足的成本。第二個在民生的部分鄉委員也一直提到這箱包括桶裝的瓦斯不要炸所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯我現在想要提的就是說\n\n14\n00:04:17,785 --> 00:04:23,052\n所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1500億的補貼之外應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣的價格您同意嗎這個部分都有其實都有緩步的在調降\n\n15\n00:04:36,027 --> 00:04:40,850\n是不是也要請那個董事長李董是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降呢?根本報告事實上從去年的3月開始我們對台電的這個天然氣的價格已經調降了6次\n\n16\n00:04:56,697 --> 00:05:01,420\n最高其實是在20塊3毛6現在已經逐步降到15塊我講的是未含稅那跟委員報告這裡面我們已經將近3年民生公用這邊沒有調整從110年的6月開始所以這部分我們就是為了穩定物價所以民生公用我們就維持8塊3毛5對本席拜託這個李董我知道您是從基層做起這一點希望你務必用專業一定要能夠\n\n17\n00:05:23,993 --> 00:05:50,380\n調降這個價格讓台電能夠止損希望他可以不要再繼續虧損能夠等於是不要再繼續像明年假設明年我們還要再補貼他真的我很難想像說如果假設明年還要再漲電價我們國家真的是吃不消那部長我在這裡還是要再一次的訴求希望說除了統裝瓦斯不要漲之外用電\n\n18\n00:05:52,461 --> 00:06:04,396\n這個330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲包括農漁牧用店不要調漲這一點部長是不是可以拜託您?謝謝委員那在電價省委員對很多的這個參數跟因素我們都會很仔細的來考量\n\n19\n00:06:10,623 --> 00:06:10,723\n在我們雲林縣\n\n20\n00:06:28,287 --> 00:06:44,157\n現在有很多的土地都被化為低地利而且是沒有跟地方溝通之下就被化為低地利很多的土地明明都還在耕作就被化為低地利其實這一點\n\n21\n00:06:45,538 --> 00:06:46,438\n所以部長你怎麼看這件事情?\n\n22\n00:07:09,243 --> 00:07:15,768\n事實上農委會在認定它是滴滴都其實是非常謹慎那另外一個就是說假設農民還有在農作的部分那這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做這個相關的能源其實都會參考它現在的實際的使用的狀況並不是說講了就一定都會去把它變更成農地\n\n23\n00:07:32,939 --> 00:07:50,423\n所以我現在想要提醒經濟部的是在規劃的過程必須考慮到這些人的犧牲不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者不會不會如果他還在農作的部分那這個我們相關的部會在審的時候一定都會考慮好特別拜託謝謝好謝謝張嘉郡委員接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8588\t23432\t主席我首先也想要表達一下雖然我剛剛是錯過了但是我想我們大家都將心比心希望大家都能夠互相維持一下這個委員的質詢的權益那我是接下來請王部長來請王部長\n27728\t38011\t部長我想要再請問您一次我們台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由?\n39845\t43707\t台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎就是因為國際的燃料成本確實是漲得非常多所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本113年度台電\n63237\t86271\t的這個幾種燃料費用 核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等 佔比最高的是什麼?113年的部分應該是燃氣的部分 天然氣沒錯 就是佔了61% 那既然佔了61% 您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎?\n87807\t92911\t臺電跟中油買的?是的,就是跟中油買的。中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權所以請教部長臺電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少?這個中油是會按照他的相關的情形跟國際的狀況去做變動\n113125\t119408\t15.75塊每立方公尺15.75塊每立方公尺應該可以看得到你仔細看一看電業用戶15.75塊這一個牌價這就是說賣給台電是最貴的甚至比氣電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格為什麼\n143808\t166812\t目前的這個中油它賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生。 那我們確實... 你自己看一看比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格所以賣給台電是最貴的然後所以這等於是說左手賣右手都是你經濟部所屬的公司然後現在台電說虧損了\n170188\t174679\t然後要全民漲電價 這不是都是讓全民買單嗎?\n177855\t192063\t就相關的這個天然氣的部分我們確實在民生跟工業的部分因為穩定物價的關係確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準我不能理解的是說怎麼會我們中油賣給台電這麼貴然後賣給一般的用戶便宜這麼多\n204350\t211216\t等於是臺電跟中油是經濟部國內能源的左右手左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢然後右手哭哭說我受不了了我要漲電價然後要拉高這個價格要向人民卡油\n223067\t223107\t這樣說得過去嗎?\n223107\t224968\t這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民卡油讓人民買單嗎?應該不能這樣講齁因為中油賣給台電的部分在這個過往他其實國際非常貴的時候\n238658\t250702\t他也沒有反映充足的成本。第二個在民生的部分鄉委員也一直提到這箱包括桶裝的瓦斯不要炸所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯我現在想要提的就是說\n257785\t263052\t所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1500億的補貼之外應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣的價格您同意嗎 這個部分都有其實都有緩步的在調降\n276027\t280850\t是不是也要請那個董事長李董是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降呢?根本報告事實上從去年的3月開始我們對台電的這個天然氣的價格已經調降了6次\n296697\t301420\t最高其實是在20塊3毛6現在已經逐步降到15塊我講的是未含稅那跟委員報告這裡面我們已經將近3年民生公用這邊沒有調整從110年的6月開始所以這部分我們就是為了穩定物價所以民生公用我們就維持8塊3毛5對本席拜託這個李董我知道您是從基層做起這一點希望你務必用專業一定要能夠\n323993\t350380\t調降這個價格讓台電能夠止損希望他可以不要再繼續虧損能夠等於是不要再繼續像明年假設明年我們還要再補貼他真的我很難想像說如果假設明年還要再漲電價我們國家真的是吃不消那部長我在這裡還是要再一次的訴求希望說除了統裝瓦斯不要漲之外用電\n352461\t364396\t這個330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲包括農漁牧用店不要調漲這一點部長是不是可以拜託您?謝謝委員那在電價省委員對很多的這個參數跟因素我們都會很仔細的來考量\n370623\t370723\t在我們雲林縣\n388287\t404157\t現在有很多的土地都被化為低地利而且是沒有跟地方溝通之下就被化為低地利很多的土地明明都還在耕作就被化為低地利其實這一點\n405538\t406438\t所以部長你怎麼看這件事情?\n429243\t435768\t事實上農委會在認定它是滴滴都其實是非常謹慎那另外一個就是說假設農民還有在農作的部分那這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做這個相關的能源其實都會參考它現在的實際的使用的狀況並不是說講了就一定都會去把它變更成農地\n452939\t470423\t所以我現在想要提醒經濟部的是在規劃的過程必須考慮到這些人的犧牲不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者不會不會如果他還在農作的部分那這個我們相關的部會在審的時候一定都會考慮好特別拜託謝謝好謝謝張嘉郡委員接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言\n","txt":"主席我首先也想要表達一下雖然我剛剛是錯過了但是我想我們大家都將心比心希望大家都能夠互相維持一下這個委員的質詢的權益那我是接下來請王部長來請王部長\n部長我想要再請問您一次我們台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由?\n台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎就是因為國際的燃料成本確實是漲得非常多所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本113年度台電\n的這個幾種燃料費用 核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等 佔比最高的是什麼?113年的部分應該是燃氣的部分 天然氣沒錯 就是佔了61% 那既然佔了61% 您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎?\n臺電跟中油買的?是的,就是跟中油買的。中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權所以請教部長臺電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少?這個中油是會按照他的相關的情形跟國際的狀況去做變動\n15.75塊每立方公尺15.75塊每立方公尺應該可以看得到你仔細看一看電業用戶15.75塊這一個牌價這就是說賣給台電是最貴的甚至比氣電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格為什麼\n目前的這個中油它賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生。 那我們確實... 你自己看一看比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格所以賣給台電是最貴的然後所以這等於是說左手賣右手都是你經濟部所屬的公司然後現在台電說虧損了\n然後要全民漲電價 這不是都是讓全民買單嗎?\n就相關的這個天然氣的部分我們確實在民生跟工業的部分因為穩定物價的關係確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準我不能理解的是說怎麼會我們中油賣給台電這麼貴然後賣給一般的用戶便宜這麼多\n等於是臺電跟中油是經濟部國內能源的左右手左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢然後右手哭哭說我受不了了我要漲電價然後要拉高這個價格要向人民卡油\n這樣說得過去嗎?\n這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民卡油讓人民買單嗎?應該不能這樣講齁因為中油賣給台電的部分在這個過往他其實國際非常貴的時候\n他也沒有反映充足的成本。第二個在民生的部分鄉委員也一直提到這箱包括桶裝的瓦斯不要炸所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯我現在想要提的就是說\n所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1500億的補貼之外應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣的價格您同意嗎 這個部分都有其實都有緩步的在調降\n是不是也要請那個董事長李董是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降呢?根本報告事實上從去年的3月開始我們對台電的這個天然氣的價格已經調降了6次\n最高其實是在20塊3毛6現在已經逐步降到15塊我講的是未含稅那跟委員報告這裡面我們已經將近3年民生公用這邊沒有調整從110年的6月開始所以這部分我們就是為了穩定物價所以民生公用我們就維持8塊3毛5對本席拜託這個李董我知道您是從基層做起這一點希望你務必用專業一定要能夠\n調降這個價格讓台電能夠止損希望他可以不要再繼續虧損能夠等於是不要再繼續像明年假設明年我們還要再補貼他真的我很難想像說如果假設明年還要再漲電價我們國家真的是吃不消那部長我在這裡還是要再一次的訴求希望說除了統裝瓦斯不要漲之外用電\n這個330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲包括農漁牧用店不要調漲這一點部長是不是可以拜託您?謝謝委員那在電價省委員對很多的這個參數跟因素我們都會很仔細的來考量\n在我們雲林縣\n現在有很多的土地都被化為低地利而且是沒有跟地方溝通之下就被化為低地利很多的土地明明都還在耕作就被化為低地利其實這一點\n所以部長你怎麼看這件事情?\n事實上農委會在認定它是滴滴都其實是非常謹慎那另外一個就是說假設農民還有在農作的部分那這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做這個相關的能源其實都會參考它現在的實際的使用的狀況並不是說講了就一定都會去把它變更成農地\n所以我現在想要提醒經濟部的是在規劃的過程必須考慮到這些人的犧牲不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者不會不會如果他還在農作的部分那這個我們相關的部會在審的時候一定都會考慮好特別拜託謝謝好謝謝張嘉郡委員接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.588 --> 00:23.432\n主席我首先也想要表達一下雖然我剛剛是錯過了但是我想我們大家都將心比心希望大家都能夠互相維持一下這個委員的質詢的權益那我是接下來請王部長來請王部長\n\n00:27.728 --> 00:38.011\n部長我想要再請問您一次我們台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由?\n\n00:39.845 --> 00:43.707\n台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎就是因為國際的燃料成本確實是漲得非常多所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本113年度台電\n\n01:03.237 --> 01:26.271\n的這個幾種燃料費用核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等佔比最高的是什麼?113年的部分應該是燃氣的部分天然氣沒錯就是佔了61%那既然佔了61%您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎?\n\n01:27.807 --> 01:32.911\n臺電跟中油買的?是的,就是跟中油買的。中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權所以請教部長臺電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少?這個中油是會按照他的相關的情形跟國際的狀況去做變動\n\n01:53.125 --> 01:59.408\n15.75塊每立方公尺15.75塊每立方公尺應該可以看得到你仔細看一看電業用戶15.75塊這一個牌價這就是說賣給台電是最貴的甚至比氣電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格為什麼\n\n02:23.808 --> 02:46.812\n目前的這個中油它賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生。那我們確實...你自己看一看比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格所以賣給台電是最貴的然後所以這等於是說左手賣右手都是你經濟部所屬的公司然後現在台電說虧損了\n\n02:50.188 --> 02:54.679\n然後要全民漲電價這不是都是讓全民買單嗎?\n\n02:57.855 --> 03:12.063\n就相關的這個天然氣的部分我們確實在民生跟工業的部分因為穩定物價的關係確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準我不能理解的是說怎麼會我們中油賣給台電這麼貴然後賣給一般的用戶便宜這麼多\n\n03:24.350 --> 03:31.216\n等於是臺電跟中油是經濟部國內能源的左右手左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢然後右手哭哭說我受不了了我要漲電價然後要拉高這個價格要向人民卡油\n\n03:43.067 --> 03:43.107\n這樣說得過去嗎?\n\n03:43.107 --> 03:44.968\n這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民卡油讓人民買單嗎?應該不能這樣講齁因為中油賣給台電的部分在這個過往他其實國際非常貴的時候\n\n03:58.658 --> 04:10.702\n他也沒有反映充足的成本。第二個在民生的部分鄉委員也一直提到這箱包括桶裝的瓦斯不要炸所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯我現在想要提的就是說\n\n04:17.785 --> 04:23.052\n所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1500億的補貼之外應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣的價格您同意嗎這個部分都有其實都有緩步的在調降\n\n04:36.027 --> 04:40.850\n是不是也要請那個董事長李董是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降呢?根本報告事實上從去年的3月開始我們對台電的這個天然氣的價格已經調降了6次\n\n04:56.697 --> 05:01.420\n最高其實是在20塊3毛6現在已經逐步降到15塊我講的是未含稅那跟委員報告這裡面我們已經將近3年民生公用這邊沒有調整從110年的6月開始所以這部分我們就是為了穩定物價所以民生公用我們就維持8塊3毛5對本席拜託這個李董我知道您是從基層做起這一點希望你務必用專業一定要能夠\n\n05:23.993 --> 05:50.380\n調降這個價格讓台電能夠止損希望他可以不要再繼續虧損能夠等於是不要再繼續像明年假設明年我們還要再補貼他真的我很難想像說如果假設明年還要再漲電價我們國家真的是吃不消那部長我在這裡還是要再一次的訴求希望說除了統裝瓦斯不要漲之外用電\n\n05:52.461 --> 06:04.396\n這個330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲包括農漁牧用店不要調漲這一點部長是不是可以拜託您?謝謝委員那在電價省委員對很多的這個參數跟因素我們都會很仔細的來考量\n\n06:10.623 --> 06:10.723\n在我們雲林縣\n\n06:28.287 --> 06:44.157\n現在有很多的土地都被化為低地利而且是沒有跟地方溝通之下就被化為低地利很多的土地明明都還在耕作就被化為低地利其實這一點\n\n06:45.538 --> 06:46.438\n所以部長你怎麼看這件事情?\n\n07:09.243 --> 07:15.768\n事實上農委會在認定它是滴滴都其實是非常謹慎那另外一個就是說假設農民還有在農作的部分那這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做這個相關的能源其實都會參考它現在的實際的使用的狀況並不是說講了就一定都會去把它變更成農地\n\n07:32.939 --> 07:50.423\n所以我現在想要提醒經濟部的是在規劃的過程必須考慮到這些人的犧牲不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者不會不會如果他還在農作的部分那這個我們相關的部會在審的時候一定都會考慮好特別拜託謝謝好謝謝張嘉郡委員接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.588,"end":23.432,"text":"主席我首先也想要表達一下雖然我剛剛是錯過了但是我想我們大家都將心比心希望大家都能夠互相維持一下這個委員的質詢的權益那我是接下來請王部長來請王部長"},{"start":27.728,"end":38.011,"text":"部長我想要再請問您一次我們台電這一次預計要漲電價到底是什麼理由?"},{"start":39.845,"end":43.707,"text":"台電確實因為之前吸收了非常多的成本所以虧損的情形讓他的財務比較嚴峻難道不是因為能源價格飆高才要漲電價嗎就是因為國際的燃料成本確實是漲得非常多所以讓台電吸收了非常多成本113年度台電"},{"start":63.237,"end":86.271,"text":"的這個幾種燃料費用 核能、燃料、燃油、燃氣等等 佔比最高的是什麼?113年的部分應該是燃氣的部分 天然氣沒錯 就是佔了61% 那既然佔了61% 您知道台電的天然氣是跟誰買的嗎?"},{"start":87.807,"end":92.911,"text":"臺電跟中油買的?是的,就是跟中油買的。中油擁有國內天然氣市場的專賣權所以請教部長臺電向中油買天然氣的價格是多少?這個中油是會按照他的相關的情形跟國際的狀況去做變動"},{"start":113.125,"end":119.408,"text":"15.75塊每立方公尺15.75塊每立方公尺應該可以看得到你仔細看一看電業用戶15.75塊這一個牌價這就是說賣給台電是最貴的甚至比氣電共生系統都高了將近兩倍的價格為什麼"},{"start":143.808,"end":166.812,"text":"目前的這個中油它賣的用戶有台電、有工業、有民生。 那我們確實... 你自己看一看比工業用戶大大多了將近兩倍的價格所以賣給台電是最貴的然後所以這等於是說左手賣右手都是你經濟部所屬的公司然後現在台電說虧損了"},{"start":170.188,"end":174.679,"text":"然後要全民漲電價 這不是都是讓全民買單嗎?"},{"start":177.855,"end":192.063,"text":"就相關的這個天然氣的部分我們確實在民生跟工業的部分因為穩定物價的關係確實目前都還沒有調整到原來的水準我不能理解的是說怎麼會我們中油賣給台電這麼貴然後賣給一般的用戶便宜這麼多"},{"start":204.35,"end":211.216,"text":"等於是臺電跟中油是經濟部國內能源的左右手左手賣給右手特別貴的價錢然後右手哭哭說我受不了了我要漲電價然後要拉高這個價格要向人民卡油"},{"start":223.067,"end":223.107,"text":"這樣說得過去嗎?"},{"start":223.107,"end":224.968,"text":"這不就是台電跟中油聯合向人民卡油讓人民買單嗎?應該不能這樣講齁因為中油賣給台電的部分在這個過往他其實國際非常貴的時候"},{"start":238.658,"end":250.702,"text":"他也沒有反映充足的成本。第二個在民生的部分鄉委員也一直提到這箱包括桶裝的瓦斯不要炸所以事實上現在賣給民生的確實遠低於成本沒有錯我現在想要提的就是說"},{"start":257.785,"end":263.052,"text":"所以經濟部除了向行政院爭取1500億的補貼之外應該也要搭配調降中油賣給台電的天然氣的價格您同意嗎 這個部分都有其實都有緩步的在調降"},{"start":276.027,"end":280.85,"text":"是不是也要請那個董事長李董是不是也能夠隨著現在國際的天然氣價格調降你們賣給台電的價格也能夠調降呢?根本報告事實上從去年的3月開始我們對台電的這個天然氣的價格已經調降了6次"},{"start":296.697,"end":301.42,"text":"最高其實是在20塊3毛6現在已經逐步降到15塊我講的是未含稅那跟委員報告這裡面我們已經將近3年民生公用這邊沒有調整從110年的6月開始所以這部分我們就是為了穩定物價所以民生公用我們就維持8塊3毛5對本席拜託這個李董我知道您是從基層做起這一點希望你務必用專業一定要能夠"},{"start":323.993,"end":350.38,"text":"調降這個價格讓台電能夠止損希望他可以不要再繼續虧損能夠等於是不要再繼續像明年假設明年我們還要再補貼他真的我很難想像說如果假設明年還要再漲電價我們國家真的是吃不消那部長我在這裡還是要再一次的訴求希望說除了統裝瓦斯不要漲之外用電"},{"start":352.461,"end":364.396,"text":"這個330度以下的弱勢用戶不要調漲包括農漁牧用店不要調漲這一點部長是不是可以拜託您?謝謝委員那在電價省委員對很多的這個參數跟因素我們都會很仔細的來考量"},{"start":370.623,"end":370.723,"text":"在我們雲林縣"},{"start":388.287,"end":404.157,"text":"現在有很多的土地都被化為低地利而且是沒有跟地方溝通之下就被化為低地利很多的土地明明都還在耕作就被化為低地利其實這一點"},{"start":405.538,"end":406.438,"text":"所以部長你怎麼看這件事情?"},{"start":429.243,"end":435.768,"text":"事實上農委會在認定它是滴滴都其實是非常謹慎那另外一個就是說假設農民還有在農作的部分那這個在個案審查的時候能不能來利用做這個相關的能源其實都會參考它現在的實際的使用的狀況並不是說講了就一定都會去把它變更成農地"},{"start":452.939,"end":470.423,"text":"所以我現在想要提醒經濟部的是在規劃的過程必須考慮到這些人的犧牲不要讓農民成為光電產業下的犧牲者不會不會如果他還在農作的部分那這個我們相關的部會在審的時候一定都會考慮好特別拜託謝謝好謝謝張嘉郡委員接下來我們請鄭正前委員發言"}]}}}}