{"id":149862,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149862","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231357c7a11549e530a4bd1f4736135d62a1df8ba9b0039caa7a6b61b70df70fb98815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:21:23 - 10:34:54","影片長度":"00:13:31","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅之影響與應處作為」，併請國家安全局副局長、海洋委員會副主任委員列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-6"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":811,"end_time":"2024-03-14T10:34:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T10:21:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":269,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時21分）謝謝主席，有請邱部長及海巡署的周署長。"],["主席：請邱部長還有周副主委。"],["邱部長國正：林委員好。"],["周副主任委員美伍：委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：部長早，副主委早。今天早上是不是在金門限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆？有這樣的情況嗎？有接到通報嗎？整體的事件是怎麼發生的？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我跟委員做個報告，我們今天早上在6點2分的時候，接獲國搜中心的通知，在我們東碇西南方1.03浬的水域，也就是在我們禁限制水域內0.3浬的位置有一艘陸船翻覆，請我們提供救援的協助。"],["林委員楚茵：所以是他們自己行駛在我們禁限制水域內。"],["周副主任委員美伍：他們自己在行駛，在我們的禁限制水域內的漁船翻覆，那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面，已經全部落海，半浮半沉，我們立即就派出線上艇，因為我們每天24小時有線上艇，一艘35噸艇立刻前往救援，同時我們從料羅直接再派出兩艘100噸、一艘35噸艇，這些艇在7點20分左右已經陸續到達東碇水域，現在持續在進行搜救當中。"],["林委員楚茵：所以目前最新搜救的情況是什麼？"],["周副主任委員美伍：他原來是告訴我們有5個人，但是我們馬上跟對口單位漳州的海事聯絡單位確認今天早上所有的狀況，他們跟我們講是6位，那麼我們就一再地查證到底是6位還是5位，最後是福州的救援單位NRCC通知我們是6位，所以也就是說海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的。那在我報告的同時，陸方已經救起兩個生還者、兩個死亡者，這兩個死亡者中有一個是由我們東碇的守備部隊救起的，因為事發的同時我就在勤指中心下令，請我們的巡防區立刻通知東碇守備部隊，叫他們所有的人力到岸際去搜索，因為他離東碇島的岸際不到一浬，所以我主觀地判斷，我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看，是可以看到這些人的，我們也確實看到了有一個人在我們的西南的海域，那我們的守軍就立刻要下去救，很不幸這個人救上來的時候就已經沒有生命跡象了，就交由陸方的搜救艦帶走，所以目前還有兩個人下落不明。剛剛在10分鐘前我們已經派遣潛水人員準備潛水到船艙內去看。"],["林委員楚茵：所以目前你所收到的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人，已經有4人尋獲，不論生或死。"],["周副主任委員美伍：對。"],["林委員楚茵：另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態。"],["周副主任委員美伍：現在是失蹤，還正在搜尋。我們現在都全力跟陸方共同在搜尋。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以剛剛周副主委的回答，邱部長，事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助救援跟搜救的任務，包括也有一些安全的防衛，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：這一定的。"],["林委員楚茵：因為陸方、中國的部分一定也有派出相關的搜救機，當然這是一個人道救援的狀況，但是就像今天幾位同仁不斷在詢問的就是在灰色地帶或在兩岸對峙的情況底下，發生了這種不幸事件的時候，一方面他們出動救援，但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查，其實對於國軍來說是兩邊都有警覺的，是嗎？"],["邱部長國正：的確，因為我們在灰地及灰色事件來講的話，這種顧慮不是不可能，但我們不認定，所以為什麼一定要保持一定的監控，然後情報交換，這個就是我們必須要做的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我想請問部長，今天早上這個事件通報之後，我們做了哪些監控？又或者做了哪些是監控，哪些是救援部分的協助？"],["邱部長國正：第一個，剛才海巡署署長也講了，我們聯合情監偵系統已經啟動了，第一個是監控。第二個，它本身島上的官兵也是一道納入的，它不能夠到海裡頭去做，最起碼沿岸……這都已經很明確了，絕對是共同合作來把這個任務完成。"],["林委員楚茵：所以對中國來說，中國這邊有出動搜救機嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：沒有……"],["邱部長國正：可能後來又出來。"],["林委員楚茵：面對中國大陸出現搜救機，我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎？國軍這裡。"],["邱部長國正：因為這個東西已經很確認了，第一個，它這個機具不是軍用的。第二個，它的人員並不是想要進犯的，完全一個人道方面的處理，我們能夠配合協助的，哪怕把這個撈上來以後，該要後續處理的，我們絕對是做人道方面的工作。"],["林委員楚茵：在這裡要給海巡跟國軍弟兄一個肯定，面對中國的步步進逼，甚至於威脅，目前已經確定這是一艘中國籍漁船，而且它是需要人道救援的時候，不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄，第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助。所以我必須要講，署長，其實在這個過程當中，我們都還在討論三無船、對岸還在給我們臉色看，但是今天一早在禁止水域發生這樣的事件的時候，大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主，對不對？"],["周副主任委員美伍：當然，這是我們平常的任務之一，救生、救難就是我們的任務之一，尤其金廈這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域，如果雙方不能夠合作的話，很多事情都很難處理，所以為什麼在過去這二十多年，我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的溝通跟互相通聯的機制，也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候，我們可以第一時間互通有無，然後他們派遣的救援是哪些、我們派遣的救援是哪些，因為救援要看水流，像今天就是向東的流，向東的流有兩節的流速，通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去潛水，因為我們的限制是在一節，但是我們今天還是要全力來搶救可能生還者，所以我們要求他們綁上我們的安全鎖，然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內，儘量去救，爭取黃金救援時間。","剛剛最新的回報，這一艘船慢慢因為流的影響，已經靠近到我們的東碇島西南岸際。如果在退潮之後，東碇的守軍他們早上已經全部動員了，全部在岸際搜索，我相信跟我們海巡會協力把船艙內的整個狀況做一個瞭解。目前我們的潛水人員已經在水中備便，只要流向可行，我們隨時會潛進船艙裡面去搜索，我想這都是我們日常應該做好的事情。"],["林委員楚茵：周署長的發言，我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到，對於人道救援的部分，我們絕對也是同理心在第一時間出動來協助。但是以本席的資料整理，就會發現中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮，對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說，其實都是相當疲憊不堪的。像今天早上所發生的，我們已經證實確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件，所以我們第一時間來救援。但是之前發生的，包括非法的三無船，又或者是過去所謂灰色地帶的行動，8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為、製造灰色衝突的時候，我想就教部長跟署長，在這兩者之間我們如何判定？"],["周副主任委員美伍：跟委員報告，以海警、海巡跟海軍而言，目前就我們所蒐集的樣態來看，它現在已經在聯合行動，通常它會把民兵船放在第一線，海警船放在第二線，海軍在第三線，這些相關的灰色地帶的作為，我們都有完整的蒐證。我們跟國防部也好，跟其他的國安單位也好，都有一個橫向的聯絡機制，每一種不同的狀況發生的時候，如果委員還記得的話，在前不久過年前後、選舉前後，他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6浬、3浬的附近，火腿族有聽到，那時候也是對海巡有很多的不諒解，說為什麼我們沒有處理。其實從它還沒有進入到我們24浬，我們的船就一直伴隨它，因為它後面拖帶了一艘很大的船，如果在那種狀況下，我們去登檢它或者停止它，因為那個大船比拖船大很多，可能會有海上維安的顧慮，同時那個風浪是很壞的，那天的風浪是八級到十級，所以……"],["林委員楚茵：所以在海上的判斷當中，其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業判斷。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，它有不同的case，我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫，當我們在空中、海上或者其他的管道得知這樣子的船隻，我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船、它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船，因為任何一艘漁船都可能是民兵船，任何的漁船我們從外觀……"],["林委員楚茵：不好意思，我必須打斷你，因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長。部長，如同剛剛署長所說的，這個判斷有很多的層次，但是如果灰色衝突不斷地製造跟產生，您過去也提到，就像前幾天所講的，有關我們的第一擊的定義有所改變的時候，在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候，會變更您的定義嗎？"],["邱部長國正：不會，因為我所謂的要做第一擊就是航空跟海航實體，這沒有變，但是程序要走啊，我們不能說略過程序，漂過來一個木板我們也打，那不就離了……程序不會變，所以更加密切合作，而我們國軍偵監的方法，除了衡指所能掌控以外，各地有雷達或者是用目視的，還有透過電展室、軍情局等等，我們的情治單位都可以蒐整，綜整完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡、有無敵意。"],["林委員楚茵：我最後一個問題，就以海上這樣的情況來講，在判斷的流程、SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部？又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第一擊，必須要有一些更嚴厲的、拉高軍事的行動？"],["邱部長國正：情資的交換是不停的，沒有講他們給我們、我們給他們，又或者是馬上通報，這就是平常在演練的過程當中的橫向聯絡，這納在訓練的過程當中。因為有這個過程，在這個當中就會做研判，這些人都是專業人員，不管是海上的也好，海巡也好，都是很專業的。我們的敵我識別都很容易判明，假如它是一個來意不善的，那我們該要警告的、該要喊話的，這個程序要有，如果它還不聽，那最後就是不期望看到的事情可能就要發生了。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝部長，辛苦了。"],["邱部長國正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。在此先宣告，等一下賴士葆委員質詢完畢以後休息5分鐘。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","黃仁","沈伯洋","陳永康","羅美玲","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","賴士葆","羅智強","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 791.879, \"end\": 792.82, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 792.82, \"end\": 793.0, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 793.0, \"end\": 793.02, \"score\": 0.616}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 793.74, \"end\": 793.92, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 793.92, \"end\": 794.0, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 794.0, \"end\": 794.02, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:09,821\n謝謝主席主席有請邱部長以及我們海巡署的周署長請邱部長還有周署長、周副主委林委員好\n\n2\n00:00:17,074 --> 00:00:32,593\n委員早部長早副主委早今天早上是不是在我們的金門的限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆有這樣的情況嗎?有接到通報嗎?那整體的事件是怎麼發生的?\n\n3\n00:00:34,572 --> 00:00:58,362\n我想跟委員做個報告我們今天早上在6點02分的時候接獲到國修中心的通知那麼在我們東定西南方1點03海裏的水域也就是在我們禁縣制水域內0點3海裏的位置有一艘陸船翻覆那麼請我們提供救援的協助\n\n4\n00:00:59,122 --> 00:01:25,933\n所以他們是一個他們自己在行駛在我們禁制水域內的一個漁船翻覆那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面已經全部落海半浮半沉那我們立即就派出我們的線上艇因為我們每天24小時有線上艇一個35頓艇立刻就前往去救援同時我們從我們廖羅直接再派出\n\n5\n00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:27,835\n所以目前最近收就的情況是什麼現在目前他原來是\n\n6\n00:01:43,757 --> 00:02:07,799\n告訴我們是5個人,但是我們馬上跟我們的對口單位,叫漳州的海事聯絡單位去確認今天早上所有的狀況,那麼他跟我們講是6位,那麼我們就一再的查證到底是6位還是5位,那最後我們跟福州的NRCC就他的一個救援單位,他通知我們是6位\n\n7\n00:02:08,579 --> 00:02:27,312\n也就是說我們海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的那在我報告的同時我們現在陸方已經救起兩個生還者兩個這個死亡者這兩個死亡者有一個是由我們東定的守備部隊\n\n8\n00:02:28,092 --> 00:02:50,232\n因為事發的同時我就在秦始中心下令請我們的巡防區立刻通知東定的這個守備部隊叫他所有的人力到岸際去搜索因為他離東定島的岸際不到一海裏所以我主觀的判斷我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看是可以看到這些人的那所以\n\n9\n00:02:51,033 --> 00:02:51,373\n李卓人議員\n\n10\n00:03:11,262 --> 00:03:36,798\n目前我們已經在剛剛10分鐘前我們已經準備潛水人員下去準備潛水到船艙內去看目前如果說您所知道的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人有4人已經尋獲不論生或死另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態現在是失蹤還正在搜尋那我們現在都全力在跟陸方一起在共同在搜尋\n\n11\n00:03:37,418 --> 00:03:51,755\n好,所以在剛剛周副主委的回答底下,邱部長,其實事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助的救援跟搜救的任務,包括其實也有一些安全的防衛對不對?因為陸方\n\n12\n00:03:54,998 --> 00:04:19,239\n所以說中國的部分他一定也有派出相關的搜救機那麼在我們安全防衛當然這是一個人道救援的狀況但是就像今天我們前面幾位同仁都不斷的在詢問的就是當灰色地帶或是兩岸對峙的情況底下發生了這種所謂不幸的事件的時候一方面他們出動救援但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查其實對於國軍來說是兩邊\n\n13\n00:04:23,502 --> 00:04:24,566\n都有警覺的是嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:25,267 --> 00:04:33,813\n所以我想請問部長就是今天早上這個事件獲得通報之後我們做了哪些的監控又或者做了哪些是監控哪些是救援部分的協助\n\n15\n00:04:53,966 --> 00:04:55,467\n所以對中國來說中國這邊他有出動搜救機嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:20,532 --> 00:05:21,554\n沒有,沒有,沒有。\n\n17\n00:05:24,775 --> 00:05:52,917\n可能後來又出來好,那麼面對中國當然出現搜救機那麼我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎?國軍這裡沒有,因為這邊已經很確認了第一,它這個機具不是軍用的第二,它人員也並沒有進犯的完全一個人道方面的處理我們能夠配合協助的哪怕把這事撈上來以後該要後續處理的我們絕對是做人道方面的工作\n\n18\n00:05:53,677 --> 00:06:14,430\n在這裡其實要給海巡跟國軍的弟兄一個肯定其實面對中國的步步禁閉甚至於威脅但是確定這是一艘所謂的中國級漁船而且它是需要人道救援的時候其實不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助所以我必須要講書長其實在這過程當中我們都還在討論三無船對岸還在給我們的臉色看\n\n19\n00:06:20,074 --> 00:06:27,713\n但是真的今天一早在禁制水域發生了這樣的事件的時候大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主對不對\n\n20\n00:06:28,881 --> 00:06:57,453\n當然這是我們平常的任務之一救生救難就是我們的任務之一尤其是今夏這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域如果雙方不能夠合作的話那很多事情都很難處理所以為什麼在過去這20多年我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的一個溝通跟互相通聯的一個機制也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候我們可以第一時間\n\n21\n00:06:58,553 --> 00:07:23,702\n互通有無然後他派遣的這些救援的是哪些我們派遣的救援是哪些因為救援要看水流像今天就是向東的流西南向東的流有兩節的流速那麼通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去做這個潛水因為我們的限制是在一節\n\n22\n00:07:24,562 --> 00:07:42,316\n但是我們今天還是要全力來救這個可能生還者所以我們要求他們綁上我們的這個安全鎖然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內我們盡量去救爭取黃金的救援時間那麼剛剛最新的回報這一艘船已經\n\n23\n00:07:43,337 --> 00:07:43,757\n李卓人議員\n\n24\n00:08:16,159 --> 00:08:31,826\n其實從總署長的發言我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到我們對於真的是人道救援的部分我們絕對也是同理心的第一時間來出動來做協助但是以本席的資料\n\n25\n00:08:32,927 --> 00:09:00,042\n的整理就會發現說中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說其實都是相當疲憊不堪的那中國這種另外一邊像今天早上所發生的我們確切已經證實到了確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件所以我們第一時間來救援來成員但是\n\n26\n00:09:00,882 --> 00:09:07,825\n之前發生的包括這種非法的三無船又或者是過去這種所謂灰色地帶的行動這個海上民兵到底兩者之間這種8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為製造灰色衝突的時候我想就叫部長跟署長在這兩者之間的時候我們如何判定\n\n27\n00:09:31,914 --> 00:09:36,866\n海警、海巡跟海軍目前就我們所收集的樣態來看他現在已經\n\n28\n00:09:39,775 --> 00:10:07,762\n在聯合行動通常他會把這個民兵船放在第一線海警船放在第二線海軍在第三線那麼這些相關的這些灰色地帶的作為我們都有完整的修正那麼我們跟國防部也好跟其他的國安單位也好都有一個橫向的聯相這個聯絡機制每次每一種不同的狀況發生的時候如果委員還記得的話\n\n29\n00:10:09,122 --> 00:10:34,567\n在前不久,過年前後,選舉前後,他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6海里,3海里的附近。那火腿族有聽到,也是那時候對海巡有很多的不諒解,說為什麼我們沒有處理。他從還沒有進入到我們24海里,我們的船就一直伴隨他,因為他後面拖帶了一艘很大的一個,一個,拖的一個船。\n\n30\n00:10:35,327 --> 00:10:51,662\n那如果在那種狀況下我們去登檢他或者停止他那個大船比他拖船大很多可能會有海上維安的顧慮同時那個風浪是很壞的那天的風浪是八級到十級所以在海上的判斷當中其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業\n\n31\n00:10:56,026 --> 00:11:17,381\n我們也都有,我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫當我們在空中或者海上或者其他的管道我們得知這樣子的一個船隻我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船因為可能任何一個漁船都可能是民兵船\n\n32\n00:11:17,921 --> 00:11:21,602\n不好意思,我必須要打斷你因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長部長,那麼所以就如同剛剛署長所說的這個判斷有很多的層次但是如果灰色衝突不斷的製造跟產生的時候您過去也提到就像前幾天所講的我們的第一集的這樣的定義有所改變的時候那麼在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候會變更您的定義嗎?\n\n33\n00:11:46,448 --> 00:12:08,336\n不會,因為我所謂的要做這個第一期航空跟海航實體這沒有變,但是程序要走啊,我們不是在略過程序,飄過一個木板我們越打,那不就離得,程序不會變,所以更加密切合作,而我們國軍徵軍的方法,除橫指所能掌控以外,\n\n34\n00:12:09,116 --> 00:12:24,659\n各地它有雷達或者有目視的還有透過我們不管是電展室、軍營局等等我們情勢單位都可以搜審一搜審完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡,有無敵意\n\n35\n00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:45,665\n好我最後一個問題就是那麼在就以海上的這樣一個情況來講的時候在判斷的過程的流程SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第1集必須要有一些更嚴厲的拉高這個所謂軍事的行動\n\n36\n00:12:48,306 --> 00:13:13,020\n這個情勢交換是不停的沒有講他給我我們給他又或者馬上通報這就平常在演練的過程當中一個橫向一個聯絡就納在訓練的過程當中在因為有這個過程所以這個當中啊就會做研判這些人都是專業人員不管海上的也好海軍也好都很專業的我們的敵我識別都很容易被判明\n\n37\n00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:14,020\n李卓人議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t9821\t謝謝主席 主席有請邱部長以及我們海巡署的周署長請邱部長還有周署長、周副主委林委員好\n17074\t32593\t委員早部長早副主委早今天早上是不是在我們的金門的限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆有這樣的情況嗎?有接到通報嗎?那整體的事件是怎麼發生的?\n34572\t58362\t我想跟委員做個報告我們今天早上在6點02分的時候接獲到國修中心的通知那麼在我們東定西南方1點03海裏的水域也就是在我們禁縣制水域內0點3海裏的位置有一艘陸船翻覆那麼請我們提供救援的協助\n59122\t85933\t所以他們是一個他們自己在行駛在我們禁制水域內的一個漁船翻覆那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面已經全部落海半浮半沉那我們立即就派出我們的線上艇因為我們每天24小時有線上艇一個35頓艇立刻就前往去救援同時我們從我們廖羅直接再派出\n86653\t87835\t所以目前最近收就的情況是什麼現在目前他原來是\n103757\t127799\t告訴我們是5個人,但是我們馬上跟我們的對口單位,叫漳州的海事聯絡單位去確認今天早上所有的狀況,那麼他跟我們講是6位,那麼我們就一再的查證到底是6位還是5位,那最後我們跟福州的NRCC就他的一個救援單位,他通知我們是6位\n128579\t147312\t也就是說我們海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的那在我報告的同時我們現在陸方已經救起兩個生還者兩個這個死亡者這兩個死亡者有一個是由我們東定的守備部隊\n148092\t170232\t因為事發的同時我就在秦始中心下令請我們的巡防區立刻通知東定的這個守備部隊叫他所有的人力到岸際去搜索因為他離東定島的岸際不到一海裏所以我主觀的判斷我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看是可以看到這些人的那所以\n171033\t171373\t李卓人議員\n191262\t216798\t目前我們已經在剛剛10分鐘前我們已經準備潛水人員下去準備潛水到船艙內去看目前如果說您所知道的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人有4人已經尋獲不論生或死另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態現在是失蹤還正在搜尋那我們現在都全力在跟陸方一起在共同在搜尋\n217418\t231755\t好,所以在剛剛周副主委的回答底下,邱部長,其實事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助的救援跟搜救的任務,包括其實也有一些安全的防衛對不對?因為陸方\n234998\t259239\t所以說中國的部分他一定也有派出相關的搜救機那麼在我們安全防衛當然這是一個人道救援的狀況但是就像今天我們前面幾位同仁都不斷的在詢問的就是當灰色地帶或是兩岸對峙的情況底下發生了這種所謂不幸的事件的時候一方面他們出動救援但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查其實對於國軍來說是兩邊\n263502\t264566\t都有警覺的是嗎?\n265267\t273813\t所以我想請問部長就是今天早上這個事件獲得通報之後我們做了哪些的監控又或者做了哪些是監控哪些是救援部分的協助\n293966\t295467\t所以對中國來說中國這邊他有出動搜救機嗎?\n320532\t321554\t沒有,沒有,沒有。\n324775\t352917\t可能後來又出來好,那麼面對中國當然出現搜救機那麼我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎?國軍這裡沒有,因為這邊已經很確認了第一,它這個機具不是軍用的第二,它人員也並沒有進犯的完全一個人道方面的處理我們能夠配合協助的哪怕把這事撈上來以後該要後續處理的我們絕對是做人道方面的工作\n353677\t374430\t在這裡其實要給海巡跟國軍的弟兄一個肯定其實面對中國的步步禁閉甚至於威脅但是確定這是一艘所謂的中國級漁船而且它是需要人道救援的時候其實不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助所以我必須要講書長其實在這過程當中我們都還在討論三無船對岸還在給我們的臉色看\n380074\t387713\t但是真的今天一早在禁制水域發生了這樣的事件的時候大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主對不對\n388881\t417453\t當然這是我們平常的任務之一救生救難就是我們的任務之一尤其是今夏這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域如果雙方不能夠合作的話那很多事情都很難處理所以為什麼在過去這20多年我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的一個溝通跟互相通聯的一個機制也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候我們可以第一時間\n418553\t443702\t互通有無然後他派遣的這些救援的是哪些我們派遣的救援是哪些因為救援要看水流像今天就是向東的流西南向東的流有兩節的流速那麼通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去做這個潛水因為我們的限制是在一節\n444562\t462316\t但是我們今天還是要全力來救這個可能生還者所以我們要求他們綁上我們的這個安全鎖然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內我們盡量去救爭取黃金的救援時間那麼剛剛最新的回報這一艘船已經\n463337\t463757\t李卓人議員\n496159\t511826\t其實從總署長的發言我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到我們對於真的是人道救援的部分我們絕對也是同理心的第一時間來出動來做協助但是以本席的資料\n512927\t540042\t的整理就會發現說中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說其實都是相當疲憊不堪的那中國這種另外一邊像今天早上所發生的我們確切已經證實到了確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件所以我們第一時間來救援來成員但是\n540882\t547825\t之前發生的包括這種非法的三無船又或者是過去這種所謂灰色地帶的行動這個海上民兵到底兩者之間這種8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為製造灰色衝突的時候我想就叫部長跟署長在這兩者之間的時候我們如何判定\n571914\t576866\t海警、海巡跟海軍目前就我們所收集的樣態來看他現在已經\n579775\t607762\t在聯合行動通常他會把這個民兵船放在第一線海警船放在第二線海軍在第三線那麼這些相關的這些灰色地帶的作為我們都有完整的修正那麼我們跟國防部也好跟其他的國安單位也好都有一個橫向的聯相這個聯絡機制每次每一種不同的狀況發生的時候如果委員還記得的話\n609122\t634567\t在前不久,過年前後,選舉前後,他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6海里,3海里的附近。那火腿族有聽到,也是那時候對海巡有很多的不諒解,說為什麼我們沒有處理。他從還沒有進入到我們24海里,我們的船就一直伴隨他,因為他後面拖帶了一艘很大的一個,一個,拖的一個船。\n635327\t651662\t那如果在那種狀況下我們去登檢他或者停止他那個大船比他拖船大很多可能會有海上維安的顧慮同時那個風浪是很壞的那天的風浪是八級到十級所以在海上的判斷當中其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業\n656026\t677381\t我們也都有,我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫當我們在空中或者海上或者其他的管道我們得知這樣子的一個船隻我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船因為可能任何一個漁船都可能是民兵船\n677921\t681602\t不好意思,我必須要打斷你因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長部長,那麼所以就如同剛剛署長所說的這個判斷有很多的層次但是如果灰色衝突不斷的製造跟產生的時候您過去也提到就像前幾天所講的我們的第一集的這樣的定義有所改變的時候那麼在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候會變更您的定義嗎?\n706448\t728336\t不會,因為我所謂的要做這個第一期航空跟海航實體這沒有變,但是程序要走啊,我們不是在略過程序,飄過一個木板我們越打,那不就離得,程序不會變,所以更加密切合作,而我們國軍徵軍的方法,除橫指所能掌控以外,\n729116\t744659\t各地它有雷達或者有目視的還有透過我們不管是電展室、軍營局等等我們情勢單位都可以搜審一搜審完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡,有無敵意\n745080\t765665\t好我最後一個問題就是那麼在就以海上的這樣一個情況來講的時候在判斷的過程的流程SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第1集必須要有一些更嚴厲的拉高這個所謂軍事的行動\n768306\t793020\t這個情勢交換是不停的沒有講他給我我們給他又或者馬上通報這就平常在演練的過程當中一個橫向一個聯絡就納在訓練的過程當中在因為有這個過程所以這個當中啊就會做研判這些人都是專業人員不管海上的也好海軍也好都很專業的我們的敵我識別都很容易被判明\n793740\t794020\t李卓人議員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請邱部長以及我們海巡署的周署長請邱部長還有周署長、周副主委林委員好\n委員早部長早副主委早今天早上是不是在我們的金門的限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆有這樣的情況嗎?有接到通報嗎?那整體的事件是怎麼發生的?\n我想跟委員做個報告我們今天早上在6點02分的時候接獲到國修中心的通知那麼在我們東定西南方1點03海裏的水域也就是在我們禁縣制水域內0點3海裏的位置有一艘陸船翻覆那麼請我們提供救援的協助\n所以他們是一個他們自己在行駛在我們禁制水域內的一個漁船翻覆那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面已經全部落海半浮半沉那我們立即就派出我們的線上艇因為我們每天24小時有線上艇一個35頓艇立刻就前往去救援同時我們從我們廖羅直接再派出\n所以目前最近收就的情況是什麼現在目前他原來是\n告訴我們是5個人,但是我們馬上跟我們的對口單位,叫漳州的海事聯絡單位去確認今天早上所有的狀況,那麼他跟我們講是6位,那麼我們就一再的查證到底是6位還是5位,那最後我們跟福州的NRCC就他的一個救援單位,他通知我們是6位\n也就是說我們海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的那在我報告的同時我們現在陸方已經救起兩個生還者兩個這個死亡者這兩個死亡者有一個是由我們東定的守備部隊\n因為事發的同時我就在秦始中心下令請我們的巡防區立刻通知東定的這個守備部隊叫他所有的人力到岸際去搜索因為他離東定島的岸際不到一海裏所以我主觀的判斷我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看是可以看到這些人的那所以\n李卓人議員\n目前我們已經在剛剛10分鐘前我們已經準備潛水人員下去準備潛水到船艙內去看目前如果說您所知道的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人有4人已經尋獲不論生或死另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態現在是失蹤還正在搜尋那我們現在都全力在跟陸方一起在共同在搜尋\n好,所以在剛剛周副主委的回答底下,邱部長,其實事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助的救援跟搜救的任務,包括其實也有一些安全的防衛對不對?因為陸方\n所以說中國的部分他一定也有派出相關的搜救機那麼在我們安全防衛當然這是一個人道救援的狀況但是就像今天我們前面幾位同仁都不斷的在詢問的就是當灰色地帶或是兩岸對峙的情況底下發生了這種所謂不幸的事件的時候一方面他們出動救援但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查其實對於國軍來說是兩邊\n都有警覺的是嗎?\n所以我想請問部長就是今天早上這個事件獲得通報之後我們做了哪些的監控又或者做了哪些是監控哪些是救援部分的協助\n所以對中國來說中國這邊他有出動搜救機嗎?\n沒有,沒有,沒有。\n可能後來又出來好,那麼面對中國當然出現搜救機那麼我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎?國軍這裡沒有,因為這邊已經很確認了第一,它這個機具不是軍用的第二,它人員也並沒有進犯的完全一個人道方面的處理我們能夠配合協助的哪怕把這事撈上來以後該要後續處理的我們絕對是做人道方面的工作\n在這裡其實要給海巡跟國軍的弟兄一個肯定其實面對中國的步步禁閉甚至於威脅但是確定這是一艘所謂的中國級漁船而且它是需要人道救援的時候其實不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助所以我必須要講書長其實在這過程當中我們都還在討論三無船對岸還在給我們的臉色看\n但是真的今天一早在禁制水域發生了這樣的事件的時候大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主對不對\n當然這是我們平常的任務之一救生救難就是我們的任務之一尤其是今夏這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域如果雙方不能夠合作的話那很多事情都很難處理所以為什麼在過去這20多年我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的一個溝通跟互相通聯的一個機制也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候我們可以第一時間\n互通有無然後他派遣的這些救援的是哪些我們派遣的救援是哪些因為救援要看水流像今天就是向東的流西南向東的流有兩節的流速那麼通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去做這個潛水因為我們的限制是在一節\n但是我們今天還是要全力來救這個可能生還者所以我們要求他們綁上我們的這個安全鎖然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內我們盡量去救爭取黃金的救援時間那麼剛剛最新的回報這一艘船已經\n李卓人議員\n其實從總署長的發言我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到我們對於真的是人道救援的部分我們絕對也是同理心的第一時間來出動來做協助但是以本席的資料\n的整理就會發現說中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說其實都是相當疲憊不堪的那中國這種另外一邊像今天早上所發生的我們確切已經證實到了確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件所以我們第一時間來救援來成員但是\n之前發生的包括這種非法的三無船又或者是過去這種所謂灰色地帶的行動這個海上民兵到底兩者之間這種8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為製造灰色衝突的時候我想就叫部長跟署長在這兩者之間的時候我們如何判定\n海警、海巡跟海軍目前就我們所收集的樣態來看他現在已經\n在聯合行動通常他會把這個民兵船放在第一線海警船放在第二線海軍在第三線那麼這些相關的這些灰色地帶的作為我們都有完整的修正那麼我們跟國防部也好跟其他的國安單位也好都有一個橫向的聯相這個聯絡機制每次每一種不同的狀況發生的時候如果委員還記得的話\n在前不久,過年前後,選舉前後,他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6海里,3海里的附近。那火腿族有聽到,也是那時候對海巡有很多的不諒解,說為什麼我們沒有處理。他從還沒有進入到我們24海里,我們的船就一直伴隨他,因為他後面拖帶了一艘很大的一個,一個,拖的一個船。\n那如果在那種狀況下我們去登檢他或者停止他那個大船比他拖船大很多可能會有海上維安的顧慮同時那個風浪是很壞的那天的風浪是八級到十級所以在海上的判斷當中其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業\n我們也都有,我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫當我們在空中或者海上或者其他的管道我們得知這樣子的一個船隻我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船因為可能任何一個漁船都可能是民兵船\n不好意思,我必須要打斷你因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長部長,那麼所以就如同剛剛署長所說的這個判斷有很多的層次但是如果灰色衝突不斷的製造跟產生的時候您過去也提到就像前幾天所講的我們的第一集的這樣的定義有所改變的時候那麼在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候會變更您的定義嗎?\n不會,因為我所謂的要做這個第一期航空跟海航實體這沒有變,但是程序要走啊,我們不是在略過程序,飄過一個木板我們越打,那不就離得,程序不會變,所以更加密切合作,而我們國軍徵軍的方法,除橫指所能掌控以外,\n各地它有雷達或者有目視的還有透過我們不管是電展室、軍營局等等我們情勢單位都可以搜審一搜審完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡,有無敵意\n好我最後一個問題就是那麼在就以海上的這樣一個情況來講的時候在判斷的過程的流程SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第1集必須要有一些更嚴厲的拉高這個所謂軍事的行動\n這個情勢交換是不停的沒有講他給我我們給他又或者馬上通報這就平常在演練的過程當中一個橫向一個聯絡就納在訓練的過程當中在因為有這個過程所以這個當中啊就會做研判這些人都是專業人員不管海上的也好海軍也好都很專業的我們的敵我識別都很容易被判明\n李卓人議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:09.821\n謝謝主席主席有請邱部長以及我們海巡署的周署長請邱部長還有周署長、周副主委林委員好\n\n00:17.074 --> 00:32.593\n委員早部長早副主委早今天早上是不是在我們的金門的限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆有這樣的情況嗎?有接到通報嗎?那整體的事件是怎麼發生的?\n\n00:34.572 --> 00:58.362\n我想跟委員做個報告我們今天早上在6點02分的時候接獲到國修中心的通知那麼在我們東定西南方1點03海裏的水域也就是在我們禁縣制水域內0點3海裏的位置有一艘陸船翻覆那麼請我們提供救援的協助\n\n00:59.122 --> 01:25.933\n所以他們是一個他們自己在行駛在我們禁制水域內的一個漁船翻覆那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面已經全部落海半浮半沉那我們立即就派出我們的線上艇因為我們每天24小時有線上艇一個35頓艇立刻就前往去救援同時我們從我們廖羅直接再派出\n\n01:26.653 --> 01:27.835\n所以目前最近收就的情況是什麼現在目前他原來是\n\n01:43.757 --> 02:07.799\n告訴我們是5個人,但是我們馬上跟我們的對口單位,叫漳州的海事聯絡單位去確認今天早上所有的狀況,那麼他跟我們講是6位,那麼我們就一再的查證到底是6位還是5位,那最後我們跟福州的NRCC就他的一個救援單位,他通知我們是6位\n\n02:08.579 --> 02:27.312\n也就是說我們海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的那在我報告的同時我們現在陸方已經救起兩個生還者兩個這個死亡者這兩個死亡者有一個是由我們東定的守備部隊\n\n02:28.092 --> 02:50.232\n因為事發的同時我就在秦始中心下令請我們的巡防區立刻通知東定的這個守備部隊叫他所有的人力到岸際去搜索因為他離東定島的岸際不到一海裏所以我主觀的判斷我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看是可以看到這些人的那所以\n\n02:51.033 --> 02:51.373\n李卓人議員\n\n03:11.262 --> 03:36.798\n目前我們已經在剛剛10分鐘前我們已經準備潛水人員下去準備潛水到船艙內去看目前如果說您所知道的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人有4人已經尋獲不論生或死另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態現在是失蹤還正在搜尋那我們現在都全力在跟陸方一起在共同在搜尋\n\n03:37.418 --> 03:51.755\n好,所以在剛剛周副主委的回答底下,邱部長,其實事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助的救援跟搜救的任務,包括其實也有一些安全的防衛對不對?因為陸方\n\n03:54.998 --> 04:19.239\n所以說中國的部分他一定也有派出相關的搜救機那麼在我們安全防衛當然這是一個人道救援的狀況但是就像今天我們前面幾位同仁都不斷的在詢問的就是當灰色地帶或是兩岸對峙的情況底下發生了這種所謂不幸的事件的時候一方面他們出動救援但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查其實對於國軍來說是兩邊\n\n04:23.502 --> 04:24.566\n都有警覺的是嗎?\n\n04:25.267 --> 04:33.813\n所以我想請問部長就是今天早上這個事件獲得通報之後我們做了哪些的監控又或者做了哪些是監控哪些是救援部分的協助\n\n04:53.966 --> 04:55.467\n所以對中國來說中國這邊他有出動搜救機嗎?\n\n05:20.532 --> 05:21.554\n沒有,沒有,沒有。\n\n05:24.775 --> 05:52.917\n可能後來又出來好,那麼面對中國當然出現搜救機那麼我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎?國軍這裡沒有,因為這邊已經很確認了第一,它這個機具不是軍用的第二,它人員也並沒有進犯的完全一個人道方面的處理我們能夠配合協助的哪怕把這事撈上來以後該要後續處理的我們絕對是做人道方面的工作\n\n05:53.677 --> 06:14.430\n在這裡其實要給海巡跟國軍的弟兄一個肯定其實面對中國的步步禁閉甚至於威脅但是確定這是一艘所謂的中國級漁船而且它是需要人道救援的時候其實不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助所以我必須要講書長其實在這過程當中我們都還在討論三無船對岸還在給我們的臉色看\n\n06:20.074 --> 06:27.713\n但是真的今天一早在禁制水域發生了這樣的事件的時候大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主對不對\n\n06:28.881 --> 06:57.453\n當然這是我們平常的任務之一救生救難就是我們的任務之一尤其是今夏這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域如果雙方不能夠合作的話那很多事情都很難處理所以為什麼在過去這20多年我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的一個溝通跟互相通聯的一個機制也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候我們可以第一時間\n\n06:58.553 --> 07:23.702\n互通有無然後他派遣的這些救援的是哪些我們派遣的救援是哪些因為救援要看水流像今天就是向東的流西南向東的流有兩節的流速那麼通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去做這個潛水因為我們的限制是在一節\n\n07:24.562 --> 07:42.316\n但是我們今天還是要全力來救這個可能生還者所以我們要求他們綁上我們的這個安全鎖然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內我們盡量去救爭取黃金的救援時間那麼剛剛最新的回報這一艘船已經\n\n07:43.337 --> 07:43.757\n李卓人議員\n\n08:16.159 --> 08:31.826\n其實從總署長的發言我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到我們對於真的是人道救援的部分我們絕對也是同理心的第一時間來出動來做協助但是以本席的資料\n\n08:32.927 --> 09:00.042\n的整理就會發現說中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說其實都是相當疲憊不堪的那中國這種另外一邊像今天早上所發生的我們確切已經證實到了確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件所以我們第一時間來救援來成員但是\n\n09:00.882 --> 09:07.825\n之前發生的包括這種非法的三無船又或者是過去這種所謂灰色地帶的行動這個海上民兵到底兩者之間這種8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為製造灰色衝突的時候我想就叫部長跟署長在這兩者之間的時候我們如何判定\n\n09:31.914 --> 09:36.866\n海警、海巡跟海軍目前就我們所收集的樣態來看他現在已經\n\n09:39.775 --> 10:07.762\n在聯合行動通常他會把這個民兵船放在第一線海警船放在第二線海軍在第三線那麼這些相關的這些灰色地帶的作為我們都有完整的修正那麼我們跟國防部也好跟其他的國安單位也好都有一個橫向的聯相這個聯絡機制每次每一種不同的狀況發生的時候如果委員還記得的話\n\n10:09.122 --> 10:34.567\n在前不久,過年前後,選舉前後,他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6海里,3海里的附近。那火腿族有聽到,也是那時候對海巡有很多的不諒解,說為什麼我們沒有處理。他從還沒有進入到我們24海里,我們的船就一直伴隨他,因為他後面拖帶了一艘很大的一個,一個,拖的一個船。\n\n10:35.327 --> 10:51.662\n那如果在那種狀況下我們去登檢他或者停止他那個大船比他拖船大很多可能會有海上維安的顧慮同時那個風浪是很壞的那天的風浪是八級到十級所以在海上的判斷當中其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業\n\n10:56.026 --> 11:17.381\n我們也都有,我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫當我們在空中或者海上或者其他的管道我們得知這樣子的一個船隻我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船因為可能任何一個漁船都可能是民兵船\n\n11:17.921 --> 11:21.602\n不好意思,我必須要打斷你因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長部長,那麼所以就如同剛剛署長所說的這個判斷有很多的層次但是如果灰色衝突不斷的製造跟產生的時候您過去也提到就像前幾天所講的我們的第一集的這樣的定義有所改變的時候那麼在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候會變更您的定義嗎?\n\n11:46.448 --> 12:08.336\n不會,因為我所謂的要做這個第一期航空跟海航實體這沒有變,但是程序要走啊,我們不是在略過程序,飄過一個木板我們越打,那不就離得,程序不會變,所以更加密切合作,而我們國軍徵軍的方法,除橫指所能掌控以外,\n\n12:09.116 --> 12:24.659\n各地它有雷達或者有目視的還有透過我們不管是電展室、軍營局等等我們情勢單位都可以搜審一搜審完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡,有無敵意\n\n12:25.080 --> 12:45.665\n好我最後一個問題就是那麼在就以海上的這樣一個情況來講的時候在判斷的過程的流程SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第1集必須要有一些更嚴厲的拉高這個所謂軍事的行動\n\n12:48.306 --> 13:13.020\n這個情勢交換是不停的沒有講他給我我們給他又或者馬上通報這就平常在演練的過程當中一個橫向一個聯絡就納在訓練的過程當中在因為有這個過程所以這個當中啊就會做研判這些人都是專業人員不管海上的也好海軍也好都很專業的我們的敵我識別都很容易被判明\n\n13:13.740 --> 13:14.020\n李卓人議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":9.821,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請邱部長以及我們海巡署的周署長請邱部長還有周署長、周副主委林委員好"},{"start":17.074,"end":32.593,"text":"委員早部長早副主委早今天早上是不是在我們的金門的限制水域有中國籍的漁船翻覆有這樣的情況嗎?有接到通報嗎?那整體的事件是怎麼發生的?"},{"start":34.572,"end":58.362,"text":"我想跟委員做個報告我們今天早上在6點02分的時候接獲到國修中心的通知那麼在我們東定西南方1點03海裏的水域也就是在我們禁縣制水域內0點3海裏的位置有一艘陸船翻覆那麼請我們提供救援的協助"},{"start":59.122,"end":85.933,"text":"所以他們是一個他們自己在行駛在我們禁制水域內的一個漁船翻覆那麼他通知的時候是有5個船員在上面已經全部落海半浮半沉那我們立即就派出我們的線上艇因為我們每天24小時有線上艇一個35頓艇立刻就前往去救援同時我們從我們廖羅直接再派出"},{"start":86.653,"end":87.835,"text":"所以目前最近收就的情況是什麼現在目前他原來是"},{"start":103.757,"end":127.799,"text":"告訴我們是5個人,但是我們馬上跟我們的對口單位,叫漳州的海事聯絡單位去確認今天早上所有的狀況,那麼他跟我們講是6位,那麼我們就一再的查證到底是6位還是5位,那最後我們跟福州的NRCC就他的一個救援單位,他通知我們是6位"},{"start":128.579,"end":147.312,"text":"也就是說我們海巡對海巡的一個對口單位給我們的資訊是正確的那在我報告的同時我們現在陸方已經救起兩個生還者兩個這個死亡者這兩個死亡者有一個是由我們東定的守備部隊"},{"start":148.092,"end":170.232,"text":"因為事發的同時我就在秦始中心下令請我們的巡防區立刻通知東定的這個守備部隊叫他所有的人力到岸際去搜索因為他離東定島的岸際不到一海裏所以我主觀的判斷我們如果用高倍的望遠鏡看是可以看到這些人的那所以"},{"start":171.033,"end":171.373,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":191.262,"end":216.798,"text":"目前我們已經在剛剛10分鐘前我們已經準備潛水人員下去準備潛水到船艙內去看目前如果說您所知道的資料就是在這艘船上面有6人有4人已經尋獲不論生或死另外還有2人是失蹤的狀態現在是失蹤還正在搜尋那我們現在都全力在跟陸方一起在共同在搜尋"},{"start":217.418,"end":231.755,"text":"好,所以在剛剛周副主委的回答底下,邱部長,其實事實上我們國軍在這樣的通報當中也有進行協助的救援跟搜救的任務,包括其實也有一些安全的防衛對不對?因為陸方"},{"start":234.998,"end":259.239,"text":"所以說中國的部分他一定也有派出相關的搜救機那麼在我們安全防衛當然這是一個人道救援的狀況但是就像今天我們前面幾位同仁都不斷的在詢問的就是當灰色地帶或是兩岸對峙的情況底下發生了這種所謂不幸的事件的時候一方面他們出動救援但是救援會不會還有夾帶其他的任務偵查其實對於國軍來說是兩邊"},{"start":263.502,"end":264.566,"text":"都有警覺的是嗎?"},{"start":265.267,"end":273.813,"text":"所以我想請問部長就是今天早上這個事件獲得通報之後我們做了哪些的監控又或者做了哪些是監控哪些是救援部分的協助"},{"start":293.966,"end":295.467,"text":"所以對中國來說中國這邊他有出動搜救機嗎?"},{"start":320.532,"end":321.554,"text":"沒有,沒有,沒有。"},{"start":324.775,"end":352.917,"text":"可能後來又出來好,那麼面對中國當然出現搜救機那麼我們在國防這邊有什麼樣的因應嗎?國軍這裡沒有,因為這邊已經很確認了第一,它這個機具不是軍用的第二,它人員也並沒有進犯的完全一個人道方面的處理我們能夠配合協助的哪怕把這事撈上來以後該要後續處理的我們絕對是做人道方面的工作"},{"start":353.677,"end":374.43,"text":"在這裡其實要給海巡跟國軍的弟兄一個肯定其實面對中國的步步禁閉甚至於威脅但是確定這是一艘所謂的中國級漁船而且它是需要人道救援的時候其實不論是海巡弟兄或者是國軍弟兄第一線站在人道救援的立場上其實都是給予協助所以我必須要講書長其實在這過程當中我們都還在討論三無船對岸還在給我們的臉色看"},{"start":380.074,"end":387.713,"text":"但是真的今天一早在禁制水域發生了這樣的事件的時候大家其實第一時間還是以救人為主對不對"},{"start":388.881,"end":417.453,"text":"當然這是我們平常的任務之一救生救難就是我們的任務之一尤其是今夏這個水域是一個很狹窄的水域如果雙方不能夠合作的話那很多事情都很難處理所以為什麼在過去這20多年我們跟對方的海事執法單位能夠有這麼好的一個溝通跟互相通聯的一個機制也就是當這種緊急事故發生的時候我們可以第一時間"},{"start":418.553,"end":443.702,"text":"互通有無然後他派遣的這些救援的是哪些我們派遣的救援是哪些因為救援要看水流像今天就是向東的流西南向東的流有兩節的流速那麼通常兩節的流速基本上我們的潛水人員就沒有辦法下去做這個潛水因為我們的限制是在一節"},{"start":444.562,"end":462.316,"text":"但是我們今天還是要全力來救這個可能生還者所以我們要求他們綁上我們的這個安全鎖然後我們希望在可行的範圍之內我們盡量去救爭取黃金的救援時間那麼剛剛最新的回報這一艘船已經"},{"start":463.337,"end":463.757,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":496.159,"end":511.826,"text":"其實從總署長的發言我也希望對岸中國能夠聽得到我們對於真的是人道救援的部分我們絕對也是同理心的第一時間來出動來做協助但是以本席的資料"},{"start":512.927,"end":540.042,"text":"的整理就會發現說中國的船隻非法越界其實層出不窮對於海巡或者是鎮守我們海域的這些海軍弟兄們來說其實都是相當疲憊不堪的那中國這種另外一邊像今天早上所發生的我們確切已經證實到了確實就是漁船翻覆的不幸事件所以我們第一時間來救援來成員但是"},{"start":540.882,"end":547.825,"text":"之前發生的包括這種非法的三無船又或者是過去這種所謂灰色地帶的行動這個海上民兵到底兩者之間這種8年來超過1.7萬艘的中國民兵船或者是海警囂張的行為製造灰色衝突的時候我想就叫部長跟署長在這兩者之間的時候我們如何判定"},{"start":571.914,"end":576.866,"text":"海警、海巡跟海軍目前就我們所收集的樣態來看他現在已經"},{"start":579.775,"end":607.762,"text":"在聯合行動通常他會把這個民兵船放在第一線海警船放在第二線海軍在第三線那麼這些相關的這些灰色地帶的作為我們都有完整的修正那麼我們跟國防部也好跟其他的國安單位也好都有一個橫向的聯相這個聯絡機制每次每一種不同的狀況發生的時候如果委員還記得的話"},{"start":609.122,"end":634.567,"text":"在前不久,過年前後,選舉前後,他們曾經派了一艘拖船在離高雄港6海里,3海里的附近。那火腿族有聽到,也是那時候對海巡有很多的不諒解,說為什麼我們沒有處理。他從還沒有進入到我們24海里,我們的船就一直伴隨他,因為他後面拖帶了一艘很大的一個,一個,拖的一個船。"},{"start":635.327,"end":651.662,"text":"那如果在那種狀況下我們去登檢他或者停止他那個大船比他拖船大很多可能會有海上維安的顧慮同時那個風浪是很壞的那天的風浪是八級到十級所以在海上的判斷當中其實海巡這邊會有不同的專業"},{"start":656.026,"end":677.381,"text":"我們也都有,我們這些跨單位都有做一些資料庫當我們在空中或者海上或者其他的管道我們得知這樣子的一個船隻我們第一件事情就要判定它是不是民兵船它是不是對我們有企圖的情報船因為可能任何一個漁船都可能是民兵船"},{"start":677.921,"end":681.602,"text":"不好意思,我必須要打斷你因為我要留一點時間來問一下部長部長,那麼所以就如同剛剛署長所說的這個判斷有很多的層次但是如果灰色衝突不斷的製造跟產生的時候您過去也提到就像前幾天所講的我們的第一集的這樣的定義有所改變的時候那麼在面對像這樣的海上灰色衝突的時候會變更您的定義嗎?"},{"start":706.448,"end":728.336,"text":"不會,因為我所謂的要做這個第一期航空跟海航實體這沒有變,但是程序要走啊,我們不是在略過程序,飄過一個木板我們越打,那不就離得,程序不會變,所以更加密切合作,而我們國軍徵軍的方法,除橫指所能掌控以外,"},{"start":729.116,"end":744.659,"text":"各地它有雷達或者有目視的還有透過我們不管是電展室、軍營局等等我們情勢單位都可以搜審一搜審完以後就可以判斷它來的原因在哪裡,有無敵意"},{"start":745.08,"end":765.665,"text":"好我最後一個問題就是那麼在就以海上的這樣一個情況來講的時候在判斷的過程的流程SOP是海巡署獲得資訊之後提供給國防部又或者是一個什麼樣的流程決定了是不是惡意的第1集必須要有一些更嚴厲的拉高這個所謂軍事的行動"},{"start":768.306,"end":793.02,"text":"這個情勢交換是不停的沒有講他給我我們給他又或者馬上通報這就平常在演練的過程當中一個橫向一個聯絡就納在訓練的過程當中在因為有這個過程所以這個當中啊就會做研判這些人都是專業人員不管海上的也好海軍也好都很專業的我們的敵我識別都很容易被判明"},{"start":793.74,"end":794.02,"text":"李卓人議員"}]}}}}