{"id":149874,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149874","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135ee28ee4f5b45471151d5fa63d75d4c3df8ba9b0039caa7a64c387a4e6f397e9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"10:54:00 - 11:03:05","影片長度":"00:09:05","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":545,"end_time":"2024-03-14T11:03:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T10:54:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（10時54分）謝謝主席，請中油董事長。"],["主席：請李董事長。"],["李董事長順欽：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：董事長，召委的話要聽進去，在回應我們立法委員答詢的時候，你的方向要有一致性。"],["李董事長順欽：是，抱歉！抱歉！"],["蔡委員易餘：你掌管中油這麼重要的公司，大家都很希望透過質詢得到最真切的答案，好不好？"],["李董事長順欽：好，謝謝委員。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上，中油這幾年說真的辛苦了，因為烏俄戰爭導致天然氣價格那麼高，你們現在又要負擔天然氣，包括瓦斯，還有我們要用的很多東西，加上汽油都是在凍漲狀態。在凍漲狀態下，中油大概吸收了多少錢？"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，光天然氣的部分，從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4,000億，這是光天然氣的部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：天然氣吸收4,000億，在政策面凍漲的呢？"],["李董事長順欽：這部分就是配合政策凍漲，我們在電業方面吸收2,300億；在民生、工業吸收1,700億；其他的在汽柴油、LPG也都有吸收。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以都是在這幾年，你們才會在109年度、110年度及111年度各自虧損700億、392億到1,861億，在這三年度是最嚴重的，尤其是在111年度。現在你們預判國際的天然氣價格，你們認為未來會怎麼走呢？"],["李董事長順欽：國際天然氣價格在中長約的部分是跟布蘭特原油掛鉤，布蘭特原油今天是84塊，布蘭特原油只要站在80塊以上的話，整個中長約的價格大概每百萬立方公尺會超過10塊以上，當然這裡還有一個轉換係數，變成國內每度多少臺幣；現貨的部分事實上是有走跌，也回軟下來，大概回到俄烏戰爭之前的那個水平，我們在觀察下半年度的走勢會怎麼樣，才會影響到我們相關的成本。"],["蔡委員易餘：但是你們沒辦法現在就買，你們還要預判未來的狀況。"],["李董事長順欽：是，所以我們大概有70%的合約……"],["蔡委員易餘：你們要怎麼預判？現在看起來，我們在烏俄戰爭的時候也簽了一些約，當時的價格是高的，所以現在當然也是得去承擔這些契約所累積下來比較高的成本。"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，事實上我們簽中長約是保量不保價，它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化。"],["蔡委員易餘：保量不保價？所以像現在有變化的話，我們就可以買到比較便宜的價格，按照你講的意思？"],["李董事長順欽：對，長約是這樣子，但是現貨變化就比較大，現貨可能會暴漲暴跌，我們大概有75%是中長約、25%是現貨。"],["蔡委員易餘：按照你的講法，以後我們的成本就有辦法控制好，是不是這樣？譬如，像現在的成本、價格是八十幾塊，應該是你們預估比較合理的價格。"],["李董事長順欽：事實上，我們在編預算就會估一個天然氣現貨價格是多少，布蘭特原油FOB是多少，我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓它的預算。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以回到最原始的問題，我知道成本是你們很重要的因素，你們面對成本、價格高的時候，又要吸收包括台電的一些政策因素，所以造成你們的虧損。說實在，中油事實上也是現在平抑物價、確保臺灣的物價不要飆漲，你們扮演一個很重要的角色。既然你們是這麼重要的角色，我要問的是，去年超徵預算，中央政府部門大概有2,900億，我看到新聞指出可能會編列1,500億對台電補助，中油有一個好處，我覺得你們有一點比台電好，就是台電怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多民股，你們沒有，你們是百分之百，對不對？"],["李董事長順欽：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以你們和台電比起來相對比較單純，你們等於跟政府的方向完全是一致的，你們有沒有順便跟部長爭取，超徵的部分中油也要補助一下？你不好意思講嗎？"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，事實上，我們也有爭取，我們113年其實有爭取，希望有200億的增資，但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准，我們持續依照……"],["蔡委員易餘：到大院？所以是我們這裡嗎？沒有吧？應該是部裡面。"],["李董事長順欽：部裡面在審的時候其實也OK，但是最後沒有被核准。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以你這次也是要爭取。"],["李董事長順欽：我們其實也有爭取。"],["蔡委員易餘：你應該要去爭取，因為目前我感覺，如果去年中央政府多出了2,900億，不管是超徵預算或是政府多出來的稅收，事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題解決好。台電不好解決，因為它有民股，你們中油沒有這樣的壓力，而且未來中油勢必不可能在台電面對……現在電價也好，台電要繼續負擔這麼高的成本，在國際煤炭價格還這麼高的時候，你也要幫忙。"],["李董事長順欽：是，我們會配合政府看油氣怎麼調整。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長不用上來，我是講給你聽。我們要補助台電，台電又有那一些民股，會有雜音，與其這樣，我們就補助中油，中油繼續幫助台電，等於轉一圈，可是轉一圈相對於政府的預算而言，執行起來更不會有一些奇奇怪怪的狀況。董事長，我這樣算對你很好。"],["李董事長順欽：謝謝委員。"],["蔡委員易餘：我跟部長這樣建議，事實上，這個是一個思考方向，因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同的公司，可是在平抑臺灣整體物價，不要讓它上漲的時候，你們的角色是一樣的，所以我也希望你們要好好做。","其次，中油為了因應未來減碳可以創造ESG，你們現在有送幾個研究方法到環境部、碳權交易所嗎？"],["李董事長順欽：事實上，整個碳交易我們目前在評估之中。"],["蔡委員易餘：還在評估表示你們動作慢，我跟你講，未來碳權可以讓企業增值，所以你們要加速研究，思考怎麼讓整個中油這個企業可以更加節能省碳。中油要扮演火車頭的角色，做給外界的企業看，對不對？"],["李董事長順欽：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們現在不會隨便投入成本，但是這個投入之後還可以創造公司的ESG，為什麼不努力？"],["李董事長順欽：是，我們一直在這方面努力。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這一塊真的要努力。我剛才都替你們說，事實上，政府要實在的給你們補助。","第二個，這個問題比較小，不過我一定要說一下，義竹加油站修理的進度比較慢，你們回去瞭解一下。修理進度慢很麻煩，因為整個義竹只有這個加油站，我們那裡是超高齡社會，當地的阿公、阿嬤現在要加油，要騎摩托車到新營，甚至騎到布袋，都要騎好幾公里，所以這個加油站的進度請幫我們催一下，不要再這樣delay，好不好？"],["李董事長順欽：是，我們希望努力在8月能夠復用。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，要快一點，儘量加快，讓地方的老人家騎到那麼遠的地方加油，安全性我們也是很擔心，好不好？"],["李董事長順欽：好，謝謝委員。"],["蔡委員易餘：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝蔡易餘委員。","接下來請邱志偉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 207.843, \"end\": 207.983, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 207.983, \"end\": 208.184, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 208.184, \"end\": 208.264, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 208.264, \"end\": 208.364, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 208.364, \"end\": 208.444, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 208.444, \"end\": 208.544, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 208.544, \"end\": 208.664, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 208.664, \"end\": 208.724, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 208.724, \"end\": 208.924, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 208.924, \"end\": 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211.106, \"end\": 211.366, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 211.366, \"end\": 211.506, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 211.506, \"end\": 211.707, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 211.707, \"end\": 211.967, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 211.967, \"end\": 212.067, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 212.067, \"end\": 212.267, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 212.267, \"end\": 212.487, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 212.487, \"end\": 212.587, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 212.587, \"end\": 212.607, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 212.607, \"end\": 212.627, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, 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00:01:42,631\n跟委員報告光天然氣的部分從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4千億光天然氣的部分天然氣吸收4千億?對,天然氣就是阿,政策勒?阿,政策而面在動場的?就是這部分就是配合政策動場的對,我們在電業方面吸收2300億在民生工業吸收了1700億那其他我們在氣、柴油、LPG也都有吸收\n\n5\n00:01:43,342 --> 00:02:08,062\n所以是在這幾年,所以你們才會在109年度、110年度跟111年度各自虧損了從700億、392億到1861億大概就是在這3年度是最嚴重的,尤其是在110年度那現在大概你們預判國際的天然氣的價格未來你們認為會怎麼走呢?\n\n6\n00:02:10,636 --> 00:02:35,552\n國際天然氣價格當然是在中長夜的部分是跟布蘭特鹽油掛鉤那布蘭特鹽油今天是84塊所以這部分布蘭特鹽油只要是站在80塊以上的話那整個中長夜的價格大概就會每百萬立萬公尺會超過10塊以上那當然這裡還有一個轉換係數變成國內每度多少台幣那現貨的部分事實上是有走跌了也回軟下來\n\n7\n00:02:36,072 --> 00:02:52,878\n大概回到二五戰爭之前的那個樣的一個水平。那我們在觀察就是下半年度是不是他的走勢會怎麼樣才會影響到我們相關的...但是你們買就沒辦法說買嘛,你們都要預判未來的狀況。是是,所以我們應該有7%的合約。現在我們看到就是說,我們在五二戰爭的時候,我們大概也簽了一些約,當時的價格是高的。\n\n8\n00:03:00,021 --> 00:03:26,511\n所以現在當然也是得去承擔這一些契約所累積下來的一個比較高的成本公文報導事實上我們前中產業是保量不保價它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化保量不保價所以變化阿主委我們現在可以買的比較便宜就對了照你講的意思對它產業是這樣子但是現貨變化就比較大現貨可能會暴漲暴跌\n\n9\n00:03:27,843 --> 00:03:32,928\n那我們大概有75%是中產業、25%是生活。阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。\n\n10\n00:03:45,659 --> 00:03:56,506\n我們事實上這篇預算就會估一個天然氣現貨的價格是多少然後原油布蘭特FOP是多少我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓他的這個預算\n\n11\n00:04:15,438 --> 00:04:40,974\n所以我要說的就是事實上中油事實上也是在我們現在評議物價然後確保台灣不要不給整個走上去你們是扮演一個很重要的一個角色既然你們是真正重要的角色對不對我要問的就是你們在這一次我們在去年這個超增預算大概中央政府部門有2900億那現在我看到新聞說可能會編列1500億\n\n12\n00:04:43,455 --> 00:05:05,048\n來做這個對台電的一個步驟啦齁阿中油齁您有一個好處捏我覺得您比台電有一點比較好這是台電齁怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多名股的您沒有嘛您百分之一百對不對是的齁所以您您相對於這個跟台電比起來您這個比較單純您的定義跟政府可以完全齁方向是一致的這會走啦齁\n\n13\n00:05:06,489 --> 00:05:31,579\n你有沒有審查過我們部長的證書說是不是這個超證的部分中油也要補一下跟委員報告事實上我們有爭取我們113年其實有爭取希望有200億的這樣子一個增資但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准那我們持續到大院所以是我們家?不不不部裡面其實在什麼時候也OK\n\n14\n00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,341\n那最後沒有被核准嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:35,341 --> 00:05:50,167\n所以我說你這次也是要爭取啊。我們其實也有爭取。應該要去爭取,因為我目前我感覺啦,如果我們以去年中央政府可以多出了2900億,這跟不管是叫超增預算或是政府多出來的一個稅收,\n\n16\n00:05:52,088 --> 00:06:09,362\n這起來事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題概括到好,台電不好解決因為他有民股,你們中油沒有這樣的壓力嘛而且你們勢必未來中油不可能在台電他們在面對包括說現在電價也好,包括說台電要繼續要負擔這麼高的身份,這個國際煤炭的價格要這麼高的時候,你們也要再幫忙嘛\n\n17\n00:06:17,328 --> 00:06:46,248\n所以我是覺得說部長這個你不用上來我是講給你聽啦與其這樣齁我們要去補助台電台電內他又有又有那些民股齁會有那邊雜音我們就補助中油阿中油繼續來幫助台電齁定律師轉一圈可是這個轉一圈內相對於政府的預算而言他執行起來是更加的更加的不會有一些齁奇奇怪怪的狀況啦\n\n18\n00:06:50,249 --> 00:07:16,346\n謝謝委員我是跟部長有這樣的一個建議啦事實上這個是一個思考方向因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同公司可是他們扮演在評議台灣整體物價不要讓它上漲的時候你們的概念是一樣的所以我也希望你們要好好做包括說你們現在中油為了因應未來的減碳未來可以創造中油的ESG你們現在有上幾個研究方法到了我們現在\n\n19\n00:07:17,246 --> 00:07:45,400\n環境部也好到這個這個探全交易所我們送了幾個研究方法嗎?事實上這個那個整個探交易我們目前是在評估之中還在評估表示你們動作慢我跟你講這個東西未來這個探全就是一個可以讓你們的企業可以增值的所以你們得要加速你們的一些研究嘛你們要怎麼讓整個中油的企業讓你們可以更加的這個節能省碳\n\n20\n00:07:46,724 --> 00:08:01,591\n這中油是你們要扮演火車頭的角色,要做給外界的企業看嘛。是是。對不對,你們現在投入了這樣的一個成本,都不會隨便投入,投入下去還可以創造公司的ESG,這為什麼不怕扁?\n\n21\n00:08:02,111 --> 00:08:16,618\n是是,我們一直在努力這方面我是覺得這一塊真的要努力啦,我剛才都提醒你們說,事實上政府要實在的帶領這個步驟然後第二個就是說,我們這個問題比較小啦,但是我也是站在我一定要講一下,我們在那個議組,你們這個加油站,你們修理的進度有比較慢的\n\n22\n00:08:24,713 --> 00:08:25,274\n蔡易餘蔡易餘\n\n23\n00:08:41,356 --> 00:08:41,376\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10429\t14207\t謝謝主席 那是不是有請我們中油董事長來請李董事長\n21628\t50145\t董事長是委員好在回應我們立法委員的答詢的時候你的方向要一致性你不要看中油這麼重要的公司我們大家都很希望透過質詢得到最真切的一個答案好不好好謝謝謝謝委員事實上中油這幾天說真的辛苦\n51347\t72958\t因為我們當然要負擔,因為這個烏鴉戰爭,天然氣的價錢有這麼高,你現在要再負擔,天然氣照理說包括家屬啦,包括我們要用的很多東西,我們的家的汽油嘛,事實上都是在動漲狀態,所以這個動漲狀態大概中油吸收了多少錢?\n74236\t102631\t跟委員報告光天然氣的部分從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4千億光天然氣的部分天然氣吸收4千億?對,天然氣就是阿,政策勒?阿,政策而面在動場的?就是這部分就是配合政策動場的對,我們在電業方面吸收2300億在民生工業吸收了1700億那其他我們在氣、柴油、LPG也都有吸收\n103342\t128062\t所以是在這幾年,所以你們才會在109年度、110年度跟111年度各自虧損了從700億、392億到1861億大概就是在這3年度是最嚴重的,尤其是在110年度那現在大概你們預判國際的天然氣的價格未來你們認為會怎麼走呢?\n130636\t155552\t國際天然氣價格當然是在中長夜的部分是跟布蘭特鹽油掛鉤那布蘭特鹽油今天是84塊所以這部分布蘭特鹽油只要是站在80塊以上的話那整個中長夜的價格大概就會每百萬立萬公尺會超過10塊以上那當然這裡還有一個轉換係數變成國內每度多少台幣那現貨的部分事實上是有走跌了也回軟下來\n156072\t172878\t大概回到二五戰爭之前的那個樣的一個水平。那我們在觀察就是下半年度是不是他的走勢會怎麼樣才會影響到我們相關的... 但是你們買就沒辦法說買嘛,你們都要預判未來的狀況。 是是,所以我們應該有7%的合約。 現在我們看到就是說,我們在五二戰爭的時候,我們大概也簽了一些約,當時的價格是高的。\n180021\t206511\t所以現在當然也是得去承擔這一些契約所累積下來的一個比較高的成本公文報導事實上我們前中產業是保量不保價它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化保量不保價所以變化阿主委我們現在可以買的比較便宜就對了照你講的意思對它產業是這樣子但是現貨變化就比較大現貨可能會暴漲暴跌\n207843\t212928\t那我們大概有75%是中產業、25%是生活。 阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。\n225659\t236506\t我們事實上這篇預算就會估一個天然氣現貨的價格是多少然後原油布蘭特FOP是多少我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓他的這個預算\n255438\t280974\t所以我要說的就是事實上中油事實上也是在我們現在評議物價然後確保台灣不要不給整個走上去你們是扮演一個很重要的一個角色既然你們是真正重要的角色對不對我要問的就是你們在這一次我們在去年這個超增預算大概中央政府部門有2900億那現在我看到新聞說可能會編列1500億\n283455\t305048\t來做這個對台電的一個步驟啦齁 阿中油齁 您有一個好處捏 我覺得您比台電有一點比較好 這是台電齁 怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多名股的 您沒有嘛 您百分之一百對不對 是的 齁 所以您 您相對於這個跟台電比起來 您這個比較單純 您的定義跟政府可以完全 齁 方向是一致的 這會走啦齁\n306489\t331579\t你有沒有審查過我們部長的證書說是不是這個超證的部分中油也要補一下跟委員報告事實上我們有爭取我們113年其實有爭取希望有200億的這樣子一個增資但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准那我們持續到大院所以是我們家?不不不部裡面其實在什麼時候也OK\n333200\t335341\t那最後沒有被核准嗎?\n335341\t350167\t所以我說你這次也是要爭取啊。 我們其實也有爭取。 應該要去爭取,因為我目前我感覺啦,如果我們以去年中央政府可以多出了2900億,這跟不管是叫超增預算或是政府多出來的一個稅收,\n352088\t369362\t這起來事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題概括到好, 台電不好解決因為他有民股, 你們中油沒有這樣的壓力嘛而且你們勢必未來中油不可能在台電他們在面對包括說現在電價也好, 包括說台電要繼續要負擔這麼高的身份, 這個國際煤炭的價格要這麼高的時候, 你們也要再幫忙嘛\n377328\t406248\t所以我是覺得說部長這個你不用上來我是講給你聽啦與其這樣齁我們要去補助台電台電內他又有又有那些民股齁會有那邊雜音我們就補助中油阿中油繼續來幫助台電齁定律師轉一圈可是這個轉一圈內相對於政府的預算而言他執行起來是更加的更加的不會有一些齁奇奇怪怪的狀況啦\n410249\t436346\t謝謝委員我是跟部長有這樣的一個建議啦事實上這個是一個思考方向因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同公司可是他們扮演在評議台灣整體物價不要讓它上漲的時候你們的概念是一樣的所以我也希望你們要好好做包括說你們現在中油為了因應未來的減碳未來可以創造中油的ESG你們現在有上幾個研究方法到了我們現在\n437246\t465400\t環境部也好到這個這個探全交易所我們送了幾個研究方法嗎?事實上這個那個整個探交易我們目前是在評估之中還在評估表示你們動作慢我跟你講這個東西未來這個探全就是一個可以讓你們的企業可以增值的所以你們得要加速你們的一些研究嘛你們要怎麼讓整個中油的企業讓你們可以更加的這個節能省碳\n466724\t481591\t這中油是你們要扮演火車頭的角色,要做給外界的企業看嘛。 是是。 對不對,你們現在投入了這樣的一個成本,都不會隨便投入,投入下去還可以創造公司的ESG,這為什麼不怕扁?\n482111\t496618\t是是,我們一直在努力這方面我是覺得這一塊真的要努力啦,我剛才都提醒你們說,事實上政府要實在的帶領這個步驟然後第二個就是說,我們這個問題比較小啦,但是我也是站在我一定要講一下,我們在那個議組,你們這個加油站,你們修理的進度有比較慢的\n504713\t505274\t蔡易餘 蔡易餘\n521356\t521376\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那是不是有請我們中油董事長來請李董事長\n董事長是委員好在回應我們立法委員的答詢的時候你的方向要一致性你不要看中油這麼重要的公司我們大家都很希望透過質詢得到最真切的一個答案好不好好謝謝謝謝委員事實上中油這幾天說真的辛苦\n因為我們當然要負擔,因為這個烏鴉戰爭,天然氣的價錢有這麼高,你現在要再負擔,天然氣照理說包括家屬啦,包括我們要用的很多東西,我們的家的汽油嘛,事實上都是在動漲狀態,所以這個動漲狀態大概中油吸收了多少錢?\n跟委員報告光天然氣的部分從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4千億光天然氣的部分天然氣吸收4千億?對,天然氣就是阿,政策勒?阿,政策而面在動場的?就是這部分就是配合政策動場的對,我們在電業方面吸收2300億在民生工業吸收了1700億那其他我們在氣、柴油、LPG也都有吸收\n所以是在這幾年,所以你們才會在109年度、110年度跟111年度各自虧損了從700億、392億到1861億大概就是在這3年度是最嚴重的,尤其是在110年度那現在大概你們預判國際的天然氣的價格未來你們認為會怎麼走呢?\n國際天然氣價格當然是在中長夜的部分是跟布蘭特鹽油掛鉤那布蘭特鹽油今天是84塊所以這部分布蘭特鹽油只要是站在80塊以上的話那整個中長夜的價格大概就會每百萬立萬公尺會超過10塊以上那當然這裡還有一個轉換係數變成國內每度多少台幣那現貨的部分事實上是有走跌了也回軟下來\n大概回到二五戰爭之前的那個樣的一個水平。那我們在觀察就是下半年度是不是他的走勢會怎麼樣才會影響到我們相關的... 但是你們買就沒辦法說買嘛,你們都要預判未來的狀況。 是是,所以我們應該有7%的合約。 現在我們看到就是說,我們在五二戰爭的時候,我們大概也簽了一些約,當時的價格是高的。\n所以現在當然也是得去承擔這一些契約所累積下來的一個比較高的成本公文報導事實上我們前中產業是保量不保價它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化保量不保價所以變化阿主委我們現在可以買的比較便宜就對了照你講的意思對它產業是這樣子但是現貨變化就比較大現貨可能會暴漲暴跌\n那我們大概有75%是中產業、25%是生活。 阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。\n我們事實上這篇預算就會估一個天然氣現貨的價格是多少然後原油布蘭特FOP是多少我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓他的這個預算\n所以我要說的就是事實上中油事實上也是在我們現在評議物價然後確保台灣不要不給整個走上去你們是扮演一個很重要的一個角色既然你們是真正重要的角色對不對我要問的就是你們在這一次我們在去年這個超增預算大概中央政府部門有2900億那現在我看到新聞說可能會編列1500億\n來做這個對台電的一個步驟啦齁 阿中油齁 您有一個好處捏 我覺得您比台電有一點比較好 這是台電齁 怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多名股的 您沒有嘛 您百分之一百對不對 是的 齁 所以您 您相對於這個跟台電比起來 您這個比較單純 您的定義跟政府可以完全 齁 方向是一致的 這會走啦齁\n你有沒有審查過我們部長的證書說是不是這個超證的部分中油也要補一下跟委員報告事實上我們有爭取我們113年其實有爭取希望有200億的這樣子一個增資但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准那我們持續到大院所以是我們家?不不不部裡面其實在什麼時候也OK\n那最後沒有被核准嗎?\n所以我說你這次也是要爭取啊。 我們其實也有爭取。 應該要去爭取,因為我目前我感覺啦,如果我們以去年中央政府可以多出了2900億,這跟不管是叫超增預算或是政府多出來的一個稅收,\n這起來事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題概括到好, 台電不好解決因為他有民股, 你們中油沒有這樣的壓力嘛而且你們勢必未來中油不可能在台電他們在面對包括說現在電價也好, 包括說台電要繼續要負擔這麼高的身份, 這個國際煤炭的價格要這麼高的時候, 你們也要再幫忙嘛\n所以我是覺得說部長這個你不用上來我是講給你聽啦與其這樣齁我們要去補助台電台電內他又有又有那些民股齁會有那邊雜音我們就補助中油阿中油繼續來幫助台電齁定律師轉一圈可是這個轉一圈內相對於政府的預算而言他執行起來是更加的更加的不會有一些齁奇奇怪怪的狀況啦\n謝謝委員我是跟部長有這樣的一個建議啦事實上這個是一個思考方向因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同公司可是他們扮演在評議台灣整體物價不要讓它上漲的時候你們的概念是一樣的所以我也希望你們要好好做包括說你們現在中油為了因應未來的減碳未來可以創造中油的ESG你們現在有上幾個研究方法到了我們現在\n環境部也好到這個這個探全交易所我們送了幾個研究方法嗎?事實上這個那個整個探交易我們目前是在評估之中還在評估表示你們動作慢我跟你講這個東西未來這個探全就是一個可以讓你們的企業可以增值的所以你們得要加速你們的一些研究嘛你們要怎麼讓整個中油的企業讓你們可以更加的這個節能省碳\n這中油是你們要扮演火車頭的角色,要做給外界的企業看嘛。 是是。 對不對,你們現在投入了這樣的一個成本,都不會隨便投入,投入下去還可以創造公司的ESG,這為什麼不怕扁?\n是是,我們一直在努力這方面我是覺得這一塊真的要努力啦,我剛才都提醒你們說,事實上政府要實在的帶領這個步驟然後第二個就是說,我們這個問題比較小啦,但是我也是站在我一定要講一下,我們在那個議組,你們這個加油站,你們修理的進度有比較慢的\n蔡易餘 蔡易餘\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.429 --> 00:14.207\n謝謝主席那是不是有請我們中油董事長來請李董事長\n\n00:21.628 --> 00:50.145\n董事長是委員好在回應我們立法委員的答詢的時候你的方向要一致性你不要看中油這麼重要的公司我們大家都很希望透過質詢得到最真切的一個答案好不好好謝謝謝謝委員事實上中油這幾天說真的辛苦\n\n00:51.347 --> 01:12.958\n因為我們當然要負擔,因為這個烏鴉戰爭,天然氣的價錢有這麼高,你現在要再負擔,天然氣照理說包括家屬啦,包括我們要用的很多東西,我們的家的汽油嘛,事實上都是在動漲狀態,所以這個動漲狀態大概中油吸收了多少錢?\n\n01:14.236 --> 01:42.631\n跟委員報告光天然氣的部分從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4千億光天然氣的部分天然氣吸收4千億?對,天然氣就是阿,政策勒?阿,政策而面在動場的?就是這部分就是配合政策動場的對,我們在電業方面吸收2300億在民生工業吸收了1700億那其他我們在氣、柴油、LPG也都有吸收\n\n01:43.342 --> 02:08.062\n所以是在這幾年,所以你們才會在109年度、110年度跟111年度各自虧損了從700億、392億到1861億大概就是在這3年度是最嚴重的,尤其是在110年度那現在大概你們預判國際的天然氣的價格未來你們認為會怎麼走呢?\n\n02:10.636 --> 02:35.552\n國際天然氣價格當然是在中長夜的部分是跟布蘭特鹽油掛鉤那布蘭特鹽油今天是84塊所以這部分布蘭特鹽油只要是站在80塊以上的話那整個中長夜的價格大概就會每百萬立萬公尺會超過10塊以上那當然這裡還有一個轉換係數變成國內每度多少台幣那現貨的部分事實上是有走跌了也回軟下來\n\n02:36.072 --> 02:52.878\n大概回到二五戰爭之前的那個樣的一個水平。那我們在觀察就是下半年度是不是他的走勢會怎麼樣才會影響到我們相關的...但是你們買就沒辦法說買嘛,你們都要預判未來的狀況。是是,所以我們應該有7%的合約。現在我們看到就是說,我們在五二戰爭的時候,我們大概也簽了一些約,當時的價格是高的。\n\n03:00.021 --> 03:26.511\n所以現在當然也是得去承擔這一些契約所累積下來的一個比較高的成本公文報導事實上我們前中產業是保量不保價它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化保量不保價所以變化阿主委我們現在可以買的比較便宜就對了照你講的意思對它產業是這樣子但是現貨變化就比較大現貨可能會暴漲暴跌\n\n03:27.843 --> 03:32.928\n那我們大概有75%是中產業、25%是生活。阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。\n\n03:45.659 --> 03:56.506\n我們事實上這篇預算就會估一個天然氣現貨的價格是多少然後原油布蘭特FOP是多少我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓他的這個預算\n\n04:15.438 --> 04:40.974\n所以我要說的就是事實上中油事實上也是在我們現在評議物價然後確保台灣不要不給整個走上去你們是扮演一個很重要的一個角色既然你們是真正重要的角色對不對我要問的就是你們在這一次我們在去年這個超增預算大概中央政府部門有2900億那現在我看到新聞說可能會編列1500億\n\n04:43.455 --> 05:05.048\n來做這個對台電的一個步驟啦齁阿中油齁您有一個好處捏我覺得您比台電有一點比較好這是台電齁怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多名股的您沒有嘛您百分之一百對不對是的齁所以您您相對於這個跟台電比起來您這個比較單純您的定義跟政府可以完全齁方向是一致的這會走啦齁\n\n05:06.489 --> 05:31.579\n你有沒有審查過我們部長的證書說是不是這個超證的部分中油也要補一下跟委員報告事實上我們有爭取我們113年其實有爭取希望有200億的這樣子一個增資但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准那我們持續到大院所以是我們家?不不不部裡面其實在什麼時候也OK\n\n05:33.200 --> 05:35.341\n那最後沒有被核准嗎?\n\n05:35.341 --> 05:50.167\n所以我說你這次也是要爭取啊。我們其實也有爭取。應該要去爭取,因為我目前我感覺啦,如果我們以去年中央政府可以多出了2900億,這跟不管是叫超增預算或是政府多出來的一個稅收,\n\n05:52.088 --> 06:09.362\n這起來事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題概括到好,台電不好解決因為他有民股,你們中油沒有這樣的壓力嘛而且你們勢必未來中油不可能在台電他們在面對包括說現在電價也好,包括說台電要繼續要負擔這麼高的身份,這個國際煤炭的價格要這麼高的時候,你們也要再幫忙嘛\n\n06:17.328 --> 06:46.248\n所以我是覺得說部長這個你不用上來我是講給你聽啦與其這樣齁我們要去補助台電台電內他又有又有那些民股齁會有那邊雜音我們就補助中油阿中油繼續來幫助台電齁定律師轉一圈可是這個轉一圈內相對於政府的預算而言他執行起來是更加的更加的不會有一些齁奇奇怪怪的狀況啦\n\n06:50.249 --> 07:16.346\n謝謝委員我是跟部長有這樣的一個建議啦事實上這個是一個思考方向因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同公司可是他們扮演在評議台灣整體物價不要讓它上漲的時候你們的概念是一樣的所以我也希望你們要好好做包括說你們現在中油為了因應未來的減碳未來可以創造中油的ESG你們現在有上幾個研究方法到了我們現在\n\n07:17.246 --> 07:45.400\n環境部也好到這個這個探全交易所我們送了幾個研究方法嗎?事實上這個那個整個探交易我們目前是在評估之中還在評估表示你們動作慢我跟你講這個東西未來這個探全就是一個可以讓你們的企業可以增值的所以你們得要加速你們的一些研究嘛你們要怎麼讓整個中油的企業讓你們可以更加的這個節能省碳\n\n07:46.724 --> 08:01.591\n這中油是你們要扮演火車頭的角色,要做給外界的企業看嘛。是是。對不對,你們現在投入了這樣的一個成本,都不會隨便投入,投入下去還可以創造公司的ESG,這為什麼不怕扁?\n\n08:02.111 --> 08:16.618\n是是,我們一直在努力這方面我是覺得這一塊真的要努力啦,我剛才都提醒你們說,事實上政府要實在的帶領這個步驟然後第二個就是說,我們這個問題比較小啦,但是我也是站在我一定要講一下,我們在那個議組,你們這個加油站,你們修理的進度有比較慢的\n\n08:24.713 --> 08:25.274\n蔡易餘蔡易餘\n\n08:41.356 --> 08:41.376\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.429,"end":14.207,"text":"謝謝主席 那是不是有請我們中油董事長來請李董事長"},{"start":21.628,"end":50.145,"text":"董事長是委員好在回應我們立法委員的答詢的時候你的方向要一致性你不要看中油這麼重要的公司我們大家都很希望透過質詢得到最真切的一個答案好不好好謝謝謝謝委員事實上中油這幾天說真的辛苦"},{"start":51.347,"end":72.958,"text":"因為我們當然要負擔,因為這個烏鴉戰爭,天然氣的價錢有這麼高,你現在要再負擔,天然氣照理說包括家屬啦,包括我們要用的很多東西,我們的家的汽油嘛,事實上都是在動漲狀態,所以這個動漲狀態大概中油吸收了多少錢?"},{"start":74.236,"end":102.631,"text":"跟委員報告光天然氣的部分從110年到113年2月其實我們吸收超過4千億光天然氣的部分天然氣吸收4千億?對,天然氣就是阿,政策勒?阿,政策而面在動場的?就是這部分就是配合政策動場的對,我們在電業方面吸收2300億在民生工業吸收了1700億那其他我們在氣、柴油、LPG也都有吸收"},{"start":103.342,"end":128.062,"text":"所以是在這幾年,所以你們才會在109年度、110年度跟111年度各自虧損了從700億、392億到1861億大概就是在這3年度是最嚴重的,尤其是在110年度那現在大概你們預判國際的天然氣的價格未來你們認為會怎麼走呢?"},{"start":130.636,"end":155.552,"text":"國際天然氣價格當然是在中長夜的部分是跟布蘭特鹽油掛鉤那布蘭特鹽油今天是84塊所以這部分布蘭特鹽油只要是站在80塊以上的話那整個中長夜的價格大概就會每百萬立萬公尺會超過10塊以上那當然這裡還有一個轉換係數變成國內每度多少台幣那現貨的部分事實上是有走跌了也回軟下來"},{"start":156.072,"end":172.878,"text":"大概回到二五戰爭之前的那個樣的一個水平。那我們在觀察就是下半年度是不是他的走勢會怎麼樣才會影響到我們相關的... 但是你們買就沒辦法說買嘛,你們都要預判未來的狀況。 是是,所以我們應該有7%的合約。 現在我們看到就是說,我們在五二戰爭的時候,我們大概也簽了一些約,當時的價格是高的。"},{"start":180.021,"end":206.511,"text":"所以現在當然也是得去承擔這一些契約所累積下來的一個比較高的成本公文報導事實上我們前中產業是保量不保價它的價是跟著國際布蘭特原油的價格在變化保量不保價所以變化阿主委我們現在可以買的比較便宜就對了照你講的意思對它產業是這樣子但是現貨變化就比較大現貨可能會暴漲暴跌"},{"start":207.843,"end":212.928,"text":"那我們大概有75%是中產業、25%是生活。 阿像你現在說的話,一號我們這個成本我們就可以控制好,是不是這樣?這個成本,這個價格你像現在這樣80幾塊嘛,這個應該是你們預估在比較合理的價格。"},{"start":225.659,"end":236.506,"text":"我們事實上這篇預算就會估一個天然氣現貨的價格是多少然後原油布蘭特FOP是多少我們是在這個假設基礎下去抓他的這個預算"},{"start":255.438,"end":280.974,"text":"所以我要說的就是事實上中油事實上也是在我們現在評議物價然後確保台灣不要不給整個走上去你們是扮演一個很重要的一個角色既然你們是真正重要的角色對不對我要問的就是你們在這一次我們在去年這個超增預算大概中央政府部門有2900億那現在我看到新聞說可能會編列1500億"},{"start":283.455,"end":305.048,"text":"來做這個對台電的一個步驟啦齁 阿中油齁 您有一個好處捏 我覺得您比台電有一點比較好 這是台電齁 怎麼會莫名其妙跑出那麼多名股的 您沒有嘛 您百分之一百對不對 是的 齁 所以您 您相對於這個跟台電比起來 您這個比較單純 您的定義跟政府可以完全 齁 方向是一致的 這會走啦齁"},{"start":306.489,"end":331.579,"text":"你有沒有審查過我們部長的證書說是不是這個超證的部分中油也要補一下跟委員報告事實上我們有爭取我們113年其實有爭取希望有200億的這樣子一個增資但是最後到大院裡面並沒有被核准那我們持續到大院所以是我們家?不不不部裡面其實在什麼時候也OK"},{"start":333.2,"end":335.341,"text":"那最後沒有被核准嗎?"},{"start":335.341,"end":350.167,"text":"所以我說你這次也是要爭取啊。 我們其實也有爭取。 應該要去爭取,因為我目前我感覺啦,如果我們以去年中央政府可以多出了2900億,這跟不管是叫超增預算或是政府多出來的一個稅收,"},{"start":352.088,"end":369.362,"text":"這起來事實上就是趕快把台電跟中油的問題概括到好, 台電不好解決因為他有民股, 你們中油沒有這樣的壓力嘛而且你們勢必未來中油不可能在台電他們在面對包括說現在電價也好, 包括說台電要繼續要負擔這麼高的身份, 這個國際煤炭的價格要這麼高的時候, 你們也要再幫忙嘛"},{"start":377.328,"end":406.248,"text":"所以我是覺得說部長這個你不用上來我是講給你聽啦與其這樣齁我們要去補助台電台電內他又有又有那些民股齁會有那邊雜音我們就補助中油阿中油繼續來幫助台電齁定律師轉一圈可是這個轉一圈內相對於政府的預算而言他執行起來是更加的更加的不會有一些齁奇奇怪怪的狀況啦"},{"start":410.249,"end":436.346,"text":"謝謝委員我是跟部長有這樣的一個建議啦事實上這個是一個思考方向因為中油跟台電兩個雖然是不同公司可是他們扮演在評議台灣整體物價不要讓它上漲的時候你們的概念是一樣的所以我也希望你們要好好做包括說你們現在中油為了因應未來的減碳未來可以創造中油的ESG你們現在有上幾個研究方法到了我們現在"},{"start":437.246,"end":465.4,"text":"環境部也好到這個這個探全交易所我們送了幾個研究方法嗎?事實上這個那個整個探交易我們目前是在評估之中還在評估表示你們動作慢我跟你講這個東西未來這個探全就是一個可以讓你們的企業可以增值的所以你們得要加速你們的一些研究嘛你們要怎麼讓整個中油的企業讓你們可以更加的這個節能省碳"},{"start":466.724,"end":481.591,"text":"這中油是你們要扮演火車頭的角色,要做給外界的企業看嘛。 是是。 對不對,你們現在投入了這樣的一個成本,都不會隨便投入,投入下去還可以創造公司的ESG,這為什麼不怕扁?"},{"start":482.111,"end":496.618,"text":"是是,我們一直在努力這方面我是覺得這一塊真的要努力啦,我剛才都提醒你們說,事實上政府要實在的帶領這個步驟然後第二個就是說,我們這個問題比較小啦,但是我也是站在我一定要講一下,我們在那個議組,你們這個加油站,你們修理的進度有比較慢的"},{"start":504.713,"end":505.274,"text":"蔡易餘 蔡易餘"},{"start":521.356,"end":521.376,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}