{"id":149887,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149887","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135cd6d8766a0759fa451d5fa63d75d4c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6768c2cd13f371f495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:26:58 - 11:32:01","影片長度":"00:05:03","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-3"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":303,"end_time":"2024-03-14T11:32:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T11:26:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":867,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時27分）謝謝主席，請王部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我想延續黃國昌委員的說法，現在彰濱工業區正在抗爭，同樣一句話，政府說的話算不算話？要算話吧？"],["王部長美花：對，經濟部要按照相關的合約來處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果有這樣的承諾，就不應該再發生讓民眾要去抗爭的狀況，我想這是最基本的政府的公信力。","第二個部分我想請教中油。"],["主席：請李董事長。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我想大家都知道在臺北內湖區有大台北瓦斯的六顆瓦斯槽，這是大台北瓦斯在臺北市的供氣儲氣槽，這六顆瓦斯槽在我二十幾年前當議員時，其實當地民眾和市政府都希望能夠及早遷移。它們一直都說這是因為中油的關係、中油的供氣不足，說這是中油的原因，所以在106年當時臺北市產發局就已經做了二個方案，第一個是幫大台北瓦斯去找其它遷移的場址，總共找了十四個地方，但是公司卻說這要花很多錢它不要。另外一個方案是台灣經濟研究院當時評估過，如果要移除的話，只要確認中油的2期輸氣工程，也就是觀塘三接完工之後，能夠增加臺北市的民生供氣，未來就可以布建穩定的輸配電管網系統，也就是導入第二氣源，那麼就可以拆除這六座儲氣槽，請問董事長是嗎？"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，我們在配管的部分已經完成了。"],["黃委員珊珊：已經完成了？"],["李董事長順欽：現在要不要拆其實是業者……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以它已經做到了穩定的供氣，已經不至於還需要這六座儲氣槽繼續存在在臺北市區了對吧？"],["李董事長順欽：我們的管線是可以來處理，那還是尊重業者。"],["黃委員珊珊：不是尊重業者，我們是政府啊！這個儲氣槽很有趣，它是大台北瓦斯公司，它提供的是臺北市其它行政區，它的位置設在內湖，但是內湖人用的是欣湖瓦斯，這是一個很離譜的事情。第二個，它旁邊就是密集的住宅區，當年是把綠地變成了公共事業用地，現在其實只是還地於民。所以針對中油的部分，現在就是它要跟你重談合約，也就是說，你跟它的合約現在是不是正在協議中？你跟它的供氣合約是不是應該再把我們這個部分加進來？在111年的時候，當時邱臣遠委員也開過協調會，你們應該要跟它在合約裡面明定供氣壓力穩定之後，就要停用。董事長，這個在你們的合約一定範圍之內有納進去嗎？"],["李董事長順欽：那個合約我們當時協調的結果就是先延到今年年底，現在在談新的合約的時候會一併處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我希望經濟部能源署和中油，像這種所謂的鄰避設施，而且它現在已經是沒有功用的東西，我們希望能夠由你們來協助大台北瓦斯公司，包括它的管網、供氣的穩定、備援能源的需求，還有瓦斯槽的拆除都能夠一併協助，由中油來主導，能夠讓這六顆瓦斯槽早日從內湖區拆除。部長，可以請你們跟能源署一起來協助嗎？"],["王部長美花：剛才委員講得很好，它涉及的因素委員都講了，有一些中央或者中油可以來協助的部分就可以協助，當然它還要有大台北瓦斯本身的部分，我們會一起來協助。"],["黃委員珊珊：只要中油供氣穩定，我相信它就沒有正當理由再繼續留這些瓦斯槽。"],["王部長美花：我們可以大力的協助。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，這件事情很重要。另外我想問一下有關中油的部分，你們接下去在印度的投資還會繼續或擴大，或者是可以增加更多新南向的擴張中油，我們希望你們能夠多賺點錢，少點虧損。"],["李董事長順欽：跟委員報告，印度的辦公室我們已經裁撤了，因為我們去那邊幾年，一直跟投資印度這個單位Invest India很多投資在那邊都談不攏。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以這邊已經胎死腹中了？"],["李董事長順欽：對，都談不攏。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以有沒有其它擴充或者是在營業範圍之內可以告訴國人的？"],["李董事長順欽：目前印度方面是沒有。"],["黃委員珊珊：好的。部長，麻煩你，針對我所講的瓦斯槽，希望在臺北市能夠絕跡，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員。","接下來請王鴻薇、王鴻薇、王鴻薇委員不在。","請徐欣瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-3","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","陳超明","賴瑞隆","蔡易餘","邱志偉","黃國昌","黃珊珊","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2024-03-14"],"gazette_id":"1131201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司\n（詢答）","agenda_id":"1131201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"149887","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149887","tool":"pyannote","id":"149887-pyannote"},"job_id":"hp0H2Dp94PGeVI6s","queued_at":"2024-06-02 03:25:25","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 03:27:04","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149887"},{"time":"2024-06-02 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\"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 296.067, \"end\": 296.227, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 296.227, \"end\": 296.407, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 296.407, \"end\": 296.668, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 296.668, \"end\": 296.948, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"崛\", \"start\": 296.948, \"end\": 297.128, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 297.128, \"end\": 297.148, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 302.086, \"end\": 302.551, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 302.551, \"end\": 302.571, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,216 --> 00:00:09,220\n政府說的話算不算話要算話吧\n\n2\n00:00:28,282 --> 00:00:50,574\n對我們經濟部我們要按照相關的合約來處理如果說有這樣的承諾就不應該再發聲讓民眾要去抗爭我想這是最基本的政府的公信力第二個部分我也請中油請李董部長我想在台北大家都知道在台北的內湖區有大台北瓦斯的六顆瓦斯槽\n\n3\n00:00:51,391 --> 00:00:52,891\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案\n\n4\n00:01:20,879 --> 00:01:28,617\n大台北瓦斯去找了其他遷移的場址找了14個地方但是這公司他說要花很多錢他不要\n\n5\n00:01:29,844 --> 00:01:52,515\n另外一個方案就是台灣經濟研究院當時評估過如果要移除的話只要確認中油的二期輸氣工程也就是關塘三階完工之後能夠增加臺北市的民生工氣未來就可以佈建穩定的輸配電管網系統也就是導入第二氣源就可以拆除這六座除氣槽\n\n6\n00:01:53,766 --> 00:02:09,058\n董事長是嗎?根文報告我們在配管的部分已經完成了那現在要不要猜其實是業者所以他已經做到了穩定的供氣以及不至於還需要這6座除氣槽繼續存在在台北市區了對吧?\n\n7\n00:02:09,398 --> 00:02:38,257\n我們的管線是可以來處理還是尊重業者接下來的問題就是不是尊重業者我們是政府這個除氣槽很有趣他是大台北瓦斯公司他提供的是台北市其他行政區他的位置設在內湖但是內湖人用的是新湖瓦斯這是一個很離譜的事情第二個他旁邊就是密集的住宅區當年是把綠地變成了公共事業用地現在其實只是還地於民\n\n8\n00:02:39,618 --> 00:02:58,969\n中油的部分我們現在就是他要跟你重談合約也就是說你跟他現在的合約現在是不是正在協議中你還要問你跟他的公企合約是不是應該再把我們這個部分加進來在111年的時候當時秋生委員會開過協調會\n\n9\n00:03:01,090 --> 00:03:12,584\n你們應該要跟他在合約裡面從你而且供氣壓力穩定之後就要停用這個在你們的合約一定範圍之內董事長你有納進去嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:13,334 --> 00:03:32,940\n是,那個合約我們當時就協調的結果就是先延到今年年底那再談新的合約的時候會一併處理好,所以部長我希望經濟部、能源署還有中油這種所謂的零幣設施而且它已經存在現在已經沒有公用的東西我們希望能夠\n\n11\n00:03:35,049 --> 00:03:56,105\n由你們來協助大台北瓦斯公司包括它的管網、供氣的穩定還有備援能源的需求還有瓦斯槽的拆除都能夠一併來協助由中油來主導能夠讓這個六顆瓦斯槽早日從內湖去拆除部長可以請你們來跟能源署一起來協助嗎?\n\n12\n00:03:57,307 --> 00:04:16,065\n剛才委員講得很好他涉及的因素委員都講了吼那有一些這個我們中央或者中油可以來協助的可以協助那當然他還要有大台北瓦斯本身的這個部分只要中油供氣穩定我相信他就沒有正當理由再繼續留這個這個就可以我們可以大力的協助\n\n13\n00:04:16,525 --> 00:04:29,978\n這件事情很重要另外我想問一下中油的部分你們接下去在印度的投資還會繼續或擴大或者是我們可以增加更多的新南向的擴張我們中油而不會我們希望能夠你們能夠多賺點錢少點虧損\n\n14\n00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:57,148\n跟委員報告,印度的辦公室我們已經採測了,因為我們去那邊幾年,那一直跟投資印度這個單位,也沒是印度人,很多投資在那邊都談不攏。所以有沒有其他擴充或者是在營業範圍之內可以告訴國人的?目前印度方面是沒有。好的,部長麻煩你,我講這個瓦斯槽希望在台北市能夠崛起,謝謝。\n\n15\n00:05:02,086 --> 00:05:02,571\n黃珊珊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n216\t9220\t政府說的話算不算話 要算話吧\n28282\t50574\t對我們經濟部我們要按照相關的合約來處理如果說有這樣的承諾就不應該再發聲讓民眾要去抗爭我想這是最基本的政府的公信力第二個部分我也請中油請李董部長我想在台北大家都知道在台北的內湖區有大台北瓦斯的六顆瓦斯槽\n51391\t52891\t中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案\n80879\t88617\t大台北瓦斯去找了其他遷移的場址找了14個地方但是這公司他說要花很多錢他不要\n89844\t112515\t另外一個方案就是台灣經濟研究院當時評估過如果要移除的話只要確認中油的二期輸氣工程也就是關塘三階完工之後能夠增加臺北市的民生工氣未來就可以佈建穩定的輸配電管網系統也就是導入第二氣源就可以拆除這六座除氣槽\n113766\t129058\t董事長是嗎?根文報告我們在配管的部分已經完成了那現在要不要猜其實是業者所以他已經做到了穩定的供氣以及不至於還需要這6座除氣槽繼續存在在台北市區了對吧?\n129398\t158257\t我們的管線是可以來處理還是尊重業者接下來的問題就是不是尊重業者我們是政府這個除氣槽很有趣他是大台北瓦斯公司他提供的是台北市其他行政區他的位置設在內湖但是內湖人用的是新湖瓦斯這是一個很離譜的事情第二個他旁邊就是密集的住宅區當年是把綠地變成了公共事業用地現在其實只是還地於民\n159618\t178969\t中油的部分我們現在就是他要跟你重談合約也就是說你跟他現在的合約現在是不是正在協議中你還要問你跟他的公企合約是不是應該再把我們這個部分加進來在111年的時候當時秋生委員會開過協調會\n181090\t192584\t你們應該要跟他在合約裡面從你而且供氣壓力穩定之後就要停用這個在你們的合約一定範圍之內董事長你有納進去嗎?\n193334\t212940\t是,那個合約我們當時就協調的結果就是先延到今年年底那再談新的合約的時候會一併處理好,所以部長我希望經濟部、能源署還有中油這種所謂的零幣設施而且它已經存在現在已經沒有公用的東西我們希望能夠\n215049\t236105\t由你們來協助大台北瓦斯公司包括它的管網、供氣的穩定還有備援能源的需求還有瓦斯槽的拆除都能夠一併來協助由中油來主導能夠讓這個六顆瓦斯槽早日從內湖去拆除部長可以請你們來跟能源署一起來協助嗎?\n237307\t256065\t剛才委員講得很好他涉及的因素委員都講了吼那有一些這個我們中央或者中油可以來協助的可以協助那當然他還要有大台北瓦斯本身的這個部分只要中油供氣穩定我相信他就沒有正當理由再繼續留這個這個就可以我們可以大力的協助\n256525\t269978\t這件事情很重要另外我想問一下中油的部分你們接下去在印度的投資還會繼續或擴大或者是我們可以增加更多的新南向的擴張我們中油而不會我們希望能夠你們能夠多賺點錢少點虧損\n272160\t297148\t跟委員報告,印度的辦公室我們已經採測了,因為我們去那邊幾年,那一直跟投資印度這個單位,也沒是印度人,很多投資在那邊都談不攏。 所以有沒有其他擴充或者是在營業範圍之內可以告訴國人的?目前印度方面是沒有。 好的,部長麻煩你,我講這個瓦斯槽希望在台北市能夠崛起,謝謝。\n302086\t302571\t黃珊珊\n","txt":"政府說的話算不算話 要算話吧\n對我們經濟部我們要按照相關的合約來處理如果說有這樣的承諾就不應該再發聲讓民眾要去抗爭我想這是最基本的政府的公信力第二個部分我也請中油請李董部長我想在台北大家都知道在台北的內湖區有大台北瓦斯的六顆瓦斯槽\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案\n大台北瓦斯去找了其他遷移的場址找了14個地方但是這公司他說要花很多錢他不要\n另外一個方案就是台灣經濟研究院當時評估過如果要移除的話只要確認中油的二期輸氣工程也就是關塘三階完工之後能夠增加臺北市的民生工氣未來就可以佈建穩定的輸配電管網系統也就是導入第二氣源就可以拆除這六座除氣槽\n董事長是嗎?根文報告我們在配管的部分已經完成了那現在要不要猜其實是業者所以他已經做到了穩定的供氣以及不至於還需要這6座除氣槽繼續存在在台北市區了對吧?\n我們的管線是可以來處理還是尊重業者接下來的問題就是不是尊重業者我們是政府這個除氣槽很有趣他是大台北瓦斯公司他提供的是台北市其他行政區他的位置設在內湖但是內湖人用的是新湖瓦斯這是一個很離譜的事情第二個他旁邊就是密集的住宅區當年是把綠地變成了公共事業用地現在其實只是還地於民\n中油的部分我們現在就是他要跟你重談合約也就是說你跟他現在的合約現在是不是正在協議中你還要問你跟他的公企合約是不是應該再把我們這個部分加進來在111年的時候當時秋生委員會開過協調會\n你們應該要跟他在合約裡面從你而且供氣壓力穩定之後就要停用這個在你們的合約一定範圍之內董事長你有納進去嗎?\n是,那個合約我們當時就協調的結果就是先延到今年年底那再談新的合約的時候會一併處理好,所以部長我希望經濟部、能源署還有中油這種所謂的零幣設施而且它已經存在現在已經沒有公用的東西我們希望能夠\n由你們來協助大台北瓦斯公司包括它的管網、供氣的穩定還有備援能源的需求還有瓦斯槽的拆除都能夠一併來協助由中油來主導能夠讓這個六顆瓦斯槽早日從內湖去拆除部長可以請你們來跟能源署一起來協助嗎?\n剛才委員講得很好他涉及的因素委員都講了吼那有一些這個我們中央或者中油可以來協助的可以協助那當然他還要有大台北瓦斯本身的這個部分只要中油供氣穩定我相信他就沒有正當理由再繼續留這個這個就可以我們可以大力的協助\n這件事情很重要另外我想問一下中油的部分你們接下去在印度的投資還會繼續或擴大或者是我們可以增加更多的新南向的擴張我們中油而不會我們希望能夠你們能夠多賺點錢少點虧損\n跟委員報告,印度的辦公室我們已經採測了,因為我們去那邊幾年,那一直跟投資印度這個單位,也沒是印度人,很多投資在那邊都談不攏。 所以有沒有其他擴充或者是在營業範圍之內可以告訴國人的?目前印度方面是沒有。 好的,部長麻煩你,我講這個瓦斯槽希望在台北市能夠崛起,謝謝。\n黃珊珊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.216 --> 00:09.220\n政府說的話算不算話要算話吧\n\n00:28.282 --> 00:50.574\n對我們經濟部我們要按照相關的合約來處理如果說有這樣的承諾就不應該再發聲讓民眾要去抗爭我想這是最基本的政府的公信力第二個部分我也請中油請李董部長我想在台北大家都知道在台北的內湖區有大台北瓦斯的六顆瓦斯槽\n\n00:51.391 --> 00:52.891\n中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案\n\n01:20.879 --> 01:28.617\n大台北瓦斯去找了其他遷移的場址找了14個地方但是這公司他說要花很多錢他不要\n\n01:29.844 --> 01:52.515\n另外一個方案就是台灣經濟研究院當時評估過如果要移除的話只要確認中油的二期輸氣工程也就是關塘三階完工之後能夠增加臺北市的民生工氣未來就可以佈建穩定的輸配電管網系統也就是導入第二氣源就可以拆除這六座除氣槽\n\n01:53.766 --> 02:09.058\n董事長是嗎?根文報告我們在配管的部分已經完成了那現在要不要猜其實是業者所以他已經做到了穩定的供氣以及不至於還需要這6座除氣槽繼續存在在台北市區了對吧?\n\n02:09.398 --> 02:38.257\n我們的管線是可以來處理還是尊重業者接下來的問題就是不是尊重業者我們是政府這個除氣槽很有趣他是大台北瓦斯公司他提供的是台北市其他行政區他的位置設在內湖但是內湖人用的是新湖瓦斯這是一個很離譜的事情第二個他旁邊就是密集的住宅區當年是把綠地變成了公共事業用地現在其實只是還地於民\n\n02:39.618 --> 02:58.969\n中油的部分我們現在就是他要跟你重談合約也就是說你跟他現在的合約現在是不是正在協議中你還要問你跟他的公企合約是不是應該再把我們這個部分加進來在111年的時候當時秋生委員會開過協調會\n\n03:01.090 --> 03:12.584\n你們應該要跟他在合約裡面從你而且供氣壓力穩定之後就要停用這個在你們的合約一定範圍之內董事長你有納進去嗎?\n\n03:13.334 --> 03:32.940\n是,那個合約我們當時就協調的結果就是先延到今年年底那再談新的合約的時候會一併處理好,所以部長我希望經濟部、能源署還有中油這種所謂的零幣設施而且它已經存在現在已經沒有公用的東西我們希望能夠\n\n03:35.049 --> 03:56.105\n由你們來協助大台北瓦斯公司包括它的管網、供氣的穩定還有備援能源的需求還有瓦斯槽的拆除都能夠一併來協助由中油來主導能夠讓這個六顆瓦斯槽早日從內湖去拆除部長可以請你們來跟能源署一起來協助嗎?\n\n03:57.307 --> 04:16.065\n剛才委員講得很好他涉及的因素委員都講了吼那有一些這個我們中央或者中油可以來協助的可以協助那當然他還要有大台北瓦斯本身的這個部分只要中油供氣穩定我相信他就沒有正當理由再繼續留這個這個就可以我們可以大力的協助\n\n04:16.525 --> 04:29.978\n這件事情很重要另外我想問一下中油的部分你們接下去在印度的投資還會繼續或擴大或者是我們可以增加更多的新南向的擴張我們中油而不會我們希望能夠你們能夠多賺點錢少點虧損\n\n04:32.160 --> 04:57.148\n跟委員報告,印度的辦公室我們已經採測了,因為我們去那邊幾年,那一直跟投資印度這個單位,也沒是印度人,很多投資在那邊都談不攏。所以有沒有其他擴充或者是在營業範圍之內可以告訴國人的?目前印度方面是沒有。好的,部長麻煩你,我講這個瓦斯槽希望在台北市能夠崛起,謝謝。\n\n05:02.086 --> 05:02.571\n黃珊珊\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.216,"end":9.22,"text":"政府說的話算不算話 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