{"id":149889,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149889","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135e920cc4e4fe2a955d1f4736135d62a1df8ba9b0039caa7a65564f04bc932350b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"11:23:49 - 11:34:17","影片長度":"00:10:28","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正報告「面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅之影響與應處作為」，併請國家安全局副局長、海洋委員會副主任委員列席，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":6,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-6"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":628,"end_time":"2024-03-14T11:34:17+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T11:23:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":616,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（11時23分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["邱部長國正：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長，今天你這份報告開頭就說到以常態化灰色地帶侵擾，並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽，企圖片面改變臺海現狀，升高區域衝突。這是您對近來我們兩岸之間一個狀況的描述。所以我認為，部長你之前說會睡不著覺，這是對國家安全的憂心，這也是國防部長的責任感，對這一點我表示肯定。","但是我有個感覺，不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺，我覺得我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢，各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒，你有沒有這個感覺？"],["邱部長國正：不會。我跟委員報告，不會這樣子。"],["羅委員智強：不會？那我來講，整個行政團隊我質詢過行政院長陳建仁、海委會主委管碧玲、陸委會主委邱太三，甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說，目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高，而且他強調他有在睡覺。為什麼大家可以睡得很好，就你一個人醒得很痛苦呢？"],["邱部長國正：委員給我一點時間，我對您說明，好不好？"],["羅委員智強：請說。"],["邱部長國正：國軍考量事情有徵候以後、有事情以後，有很多假定事項，但假定事項都是從最壞的來打算，想著要做最壞打算，以便於我們做最好的準備。立場、背景不一樣，所以我有這種考量，並不是沒有這種考量就是不憂國憂民。"],["羅委員智強：我跟部長講，我就是肯定你這樣的憂國憂民、做最壞打算，其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算。我要再問，三立有一則獨家新聞，總統府高層說你是自走砲，還致電給你要瞭解你發言的原意，而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛。我想問第一個、你認同自走砲這個批評嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我沒有意見，人家給我取什麼外號、他著眼如何，我都沒有意見，他是什麼出發點，我也不瞭解。但我要跟委員報告……"],["羅委員智強：就是謗言由人，但我心自在。"],["邱部長國正：對。但到目前為止沒有人問過我，為什麼要這樣發言、為什麼要那樣發言。"],["羅委員智強：我剛剛講過我質詢過很多官員，我感覺好像天下本太平、自走砲自擾之，習近平喊和平，大家一起安心睡。最近有個討論的話題是，因為習近平重申和平統一，所以很多人就說，你看他都喊和平統一了，和平就代表就不會動武。我想請問您是這樣嗎？你相信習近平嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我沒有什麼相信不相信。但我在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後，有件事情絕對是定律，即不會因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷。因為和平，我們就不要戰備了嗎？不會！或因為有和平，所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎？不會！我在這一方面有滿好的、跟國軍同仁一樣的大原則絕對抓住，不會因為人家一句話就改變我們自己、放鬆或緊繃了，所以也不會因為人家講一句話，我就變很緊張、整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。"],["羅委員智強：我覺得部長的態度是正確的，你也不能因為習近平一句話，喊和平統一，好像就太平無事一樣，該要做的準備當然是要做。","下一個我就要問您，因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅之影響與應處作為，可是我發現全篇報告隻字未提美國、日本，意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅，日本跟美國因素不重要嗎？"],["邱部長國正：不是不重要，但我們絕不指望，因為他到底會採取什麼樣反應或動作，我們完全不知道，所以我們不能認為他會如何，這樣的話，有違我們國軍建軍備戰的概念，好像設定一個不知道的未來。人家講得很好，以不知道這個狀況來假定它必然發生，這是不對的。"],["羅委員智強：可是事實上政府歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去，是不是？"],["邱部長國正：最起碼軍事當中的兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況。"],["羅委員智強：我是說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸兵推，會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去？"],["邱部長國正：我不知道，因為每個層次不同，所以為什麼會對我有什麼評論，我是完全站在軍事立場來設想。"],["羅委員智強：我就從軍事立場來請教部長，坦白講，過去我看到民進黨的朋友不斷暗示跟明示，臺海有事，美日不會坐視。如果中共真的採取我們最不想要的結果──武力犯臺，你覺得美國會介入嗎？日本會介入嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我不知道，所以我一再強調我們沒有這種想定，就代表我不能夠預判。我講的很多軍事術語，雖然聽來好像很古板，但滿受用的，要以不可見之力把極可能之害給彌補掉，那是絕對的錯誤。"],["羅委員智強：我這樣問好了，我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來類比。烏俄開戰，美國跟歐洲各國都有聲援，沒錯吧？"],["邱部長國正：有。"],["羅委員智強：對不對？"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["羅委員智強：第一個等級就是譴責俄國，就歐洲幾個國家跟美國都譴責俄國，對不對？第二個等級是經濟制裁，祭出很多經濟制裁的措施。第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["羅委員智強：可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級，就是派兵參戰？"],["邱部長國正：我剛剛講口惠、實惠，我們從來都沒有考慮過，口惠好像旁邊的啦啦隊一樣喊一喊，換成我也喊一喊加油，到底有沒有實惠？這是很重要的。"],["羅委員智強：部長完全知道我要問什麼。"],["邱部長國正：我不知道。"],["羅委員智強：就是前面譴責其實只是一種口惠。"],["邱部長國正：對，只是一種口惠。"],["羅委員智強：當然經濟制裁、提供武器軍事援助也還是具有實質，可是在很多討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級派兵參戰。實際上之前日本官房長官就說過一段話，我看部長也有回應，他說他不能認同臺灣有事、日本有事的觀點，他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭，日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失，所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣。這句話其實指的不只是日本，也包括美國因素，所以在你的戰備考量之下，我們就是自己國家自己救，您是這樣說，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：我一直這樣認為。"],["羅委員智強：接下來請教部長，您知道2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中，攻擊臺灣防疫而且散播親中言論，還很可惡要大家移除衛福部的 LINE帳號「疾管家」。我想請問您，這算不算是有利中共、不利臺灣的訊息？"],["邱部長國正：剛剛幾位委員也有問到，我們的界定就是發表言論利於敵方、不利於我方，我們就認為他是在地……"],["羅委員智強：你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方、不利於我方？"],["邱部長國正：當然也算是，但到底有沒有這樣，我不去界定……"],["羅委員智強：所以他就是在地協力者嘛？"],["邱部長國正：對。但是不是有違反了什麼規定，那不是我的責任。"],["羅委員智強：王定宇痛批這是大陸滲透 PTT、搞認知作戰，而且網友收錢擾亂臺灣，蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇。可是你知道最後被查出來，這一起王定宇所謂中共擾亂臺灣事件的這個網友是范雲的學生、綠營的寫手──林瑋豐自導自演，他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任。我想請問林瑋豐是不是您定義的中共在地協力者？"],["邱部長國正：這個人我不認得，我對一個不認得的人沒辦法去評論。"],["羅委員智強：當然。照這個標準，林瑋豐就是中共在地協力者，而背後跟民進黨有千絲萬縷的關係，所以民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎？部長，前面其實我都很肯定你，但您這句話，說真的，我覺得講得不夠精確。因為很多東西沒辦法馬上用所謂的有利、不利來判準，還是要回到法律的標準來看，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：沒錯，是。"],["羅委員智強：實質上，我也贊成犯法就抓去關，所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點。"],["邱部長國正：是，謝謝委員。那天我在院會報告，我有講這句話：「至於如何界定，這不是國防部的能力範圍，要經過檢調單位」。我也沒有什麼事後諸葛，我當初不知道，他直接問我，我的反應好像就變成……支持者……對他有利，而他就是他的支持者，這沒什麼好疑問的，但他有沒有因為支持某人危害我們，就由檢調單位去判斷。特別跟委員說明，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","黃仁","沈伯洋","陳永康","羅美玲","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","賴士葆","羅智強","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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\"平\", \"start\": 221.482, \"end\": 221.703, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 221.703, \"end\": 221.803, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 221.803, \"end\": 221.863, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 221.863, \"end\": 222.023, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 222.023, \"end\": 222.203, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 222.203, \"end\": 222.403, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"鬆\"}, {\"word\": \"懈\", \"start\": 222.403, \"end\": 222.544, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 222.544, \"end\": 222.564, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 223.965, \"end\": 244.331, \"text\": \"所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 223.965, \"end\": 224.045, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 224.045, \"end\": 224.125, 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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 261.198, \"end\": 261.218, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}]}, {\"start\": 267.641, \"end\": 292.307, \"text\": \"這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 267.641, \"end\": 267.921, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"篇\", \"start\": 267.921, \"end\": 268.521, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 268.521, \"end\": 268.801, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 268.801, \"end\": 269.061, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 269.061, \"end\": 269.241, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 269.241, \"end\": 269.462, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 269.462, \"end\": 269.662, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 269.662, \"end\": 270.102, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, 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00:00:00,249\n羅委員好：\n\n2\n00:00:12,335 --> 00:00:29,382\n部長今天你報告開頭就是說這份報告裡面就說以常態化灰色地帶侵擾並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽企圖片面改變台海現狀升高區域衝突\n\n3\n00:00:30,402 --> 00:00:51,651\n所以這是您對近來我們兩岸之間的一個狀況的描述所以我認為部長你之前說會睡不著覺這是對國家安全的憂心那這也是國防部長的責任感那這一點我表示肯定但是我有一個感覺不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺我覺得好像我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢\n\n4\n00:00:53,972 --> 00:01:11,657\n各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒啊你有沒有這個感覺啊不會欸不會我跟委員報不會這樣子不會齁那我來講齁這個整個行政團隊我也執行過行政院長這個陳建仁我們管委會海委會的主委管碧玲\n\n5\n00:01:12,297 --> 00:01:30,286\n邱泰山陸委會主委甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高而且他強調他有在睡覺那為什麼大家可以睡得很好那你一個人就醒得很痛苦呢\n\n6\n00:01:30,686 --> 00:01:56,503\n我跟委員給我一點時間,我對您要做說明好不好?國軍考量事情有真後以後,有事情以後還有很多假定事項但這個假定事項都是從最壞的來做一個打算所以我們想要做最壞的打算以便於我們做最好的準備所以這個立場、背景不一樣所以我有這種考量,我並不認為假定事項沒有這種考量就是好像不憂國憂民\n\n7\n00:02:01,146 --> 00:02:27,185\n做最壞打算所以我也要講其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算的感覺那我要再問三立有一個獨家新聞他說總統府高層說你是自走炮還致電給你來要去了解你的發言原意而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛我想問第一個你認同自走炮這個批評嗎\n\n8\n00:02:28,166 --> 00:02:50,822\n我沒有意見,因為人家給我取什麼外號,他左眼如何我都沒有意見啊,他的什麼出發點我也不瞭解,但我要跟委員報告,但我跟委員報告,到目前為止沒有人問我,你為什麼要這樣發言,為什麼要那樣發言那我要想請教您,您知道就是我剛剛講過質詢過很多的官員\n\n9\n00:02:54,673 --> 00:03:21,882\n我一個感覺好像天下本太平自走炮自擾之習近平喊和平大家一起安心睡的感覺所以我想要請教最近有一個討論的話題因為習近平重生和平統一那很多人就看到說你看他都喊和平統一對不對那就代表和平就不會動武那我想請問您是這樣嗎你相信習近平\n\n10\n00:03:23,643 --> 00:03:42,564\n我問委員報告我沒有什麼相信不相信但我們國軍在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後有些事情決定是一個定律就是因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷因為和平那我們就不要戰備了嗎?不會因為有和平所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎?不會\n\n11\n00:03:43,965 --> 00:04:04,331\n所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。\n\n12\n00:04:04,591 --> 00:04:21,218\n我覺得這部長的態度是正確的你也不能因為習近平一句話而喊和平統一好像就太平無事一樣那該要做的準備當然是要做準備但是下一個我就要問您因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅影響與應處作為可是我發現\n\n13\n00:04:27,641 --> 00:04:52,307\n這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的\n\n14\n00:04:52,847 --> 00:05:00,031\n我想請教,可是事實上我們政府的歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去嗎?是不是?\n\n15\n00:05:13,259 --> 00:05:37,059\n我最起碼軍事當中兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況是我是講說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸的兵推會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去因為它每個層次不同所以為什麼對我有什麼評論我是完全在一個軍事立場來設想那我就從軍事立場來請教我們部長其實坦白講過去我看到民進黨的朋友\n\n16\n00:05:37,739 --> 00:05:37,759\n：羅智強\n\n17\n00:06:07,449 --> 00:06:11,870\n我這樣問好了我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來做一個類比那烏俄開戰美國跟歐洲各國皆會聲援都有聲援沒錯吧第一個當然第一個等級就是譴責俄國\n\n18\n00:06:30,982 --> 00:06:48,103\n歐洲跟美國的幾個國家都譴責俄國第二個等級是經濟制裁技術很多經濟制裁的措施第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級就是派兵參戰\n\n19\n00:06:49,674 --> 00:07:04,731\n目前我剛剛講了從來口會、實會我們都沒有考慮過口會旁邊拉拉隊一樣喊一喊換成我也喊一喊加油到底有沒有實會這是很重要的部長完全知道我要問什麼\n\n20\n00:07:06,012 --> 00:07:25,830\n就是說前面譴責其實只是一種口惠當然經濟制裁提供武器軍事援助也還是有實質可是事實上很多在討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級就是派兵參戰但實際上之前日本官房長官其實他就說過一段話我看部長也有回應嘛\n\n21\n00:07:26,471 --> 00:07:55,084\n他說他不能認同臺灣有事日本有事的觀點他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣這句話其實指的也不只是日本啦也包括美國因素所以在你的戰備考量之下我們就是自己國家自己救嘛您是這樣說嘛我也是這樣認為好接下來我想請教您下一個問題我想請教部長\n\n22\n00:07:56,084 --> 00:08:20,545\n您知道這個2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中攻擊台灣防疫而且散播親中言論寒可惡要大家移除衛福部的LINE帳號及管家我想請問您這算不算是有利中共不利台灣的訊息\n\n23\n00:08:21,513 --> 00:08:43,116\n我跟委員剛剛有問到我們界定就是說你發表言論利於敵方不利於我方那你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方不利於我方當然也算了所以他就是在地協力權對是不是有違反了什麼規定那不是我的責任那我跟部長說\n\n24\n00:08:44,557 --> 00:08:58,805\n王定宇有痛批這是大陸滲透PTT搞認知作戰而且網友收錢擾亂台灣蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇可是你知道最後被查出來這一起所謂王定宇的中共擾亂台灣事件\n\n25\n00:09:01,087 --> 00:09:14,929\n這個網友是范雲的學生綠營的寫手林偉峰自導自演他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任我想請問林偉峰是不是您定義的在地協力者中共在地協力者\n\n26\n00:09:15,863 --> 00:09:39,614\n我跟委員報這個人我不認得我對一個不認得的人我沒辦法去做一個評論當然啦那我跟你講照這個標準林偉峰就是中共在地協力者而背後的民進黨千絲萬縷的關係民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎我最後還是給部長前面其實我都很肯定你但您這句話說真的我覺得講得不夠精確\n\n27\n00:09:40,774 --> 00:10:04,828\n因為很多東西事實上要馬上所謂的用所謂有利不利來去做一個判準還是要回到法律的標準來看對不對那事實上犯法就抓去關啊這我也贊成所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點是謝謝委員我也要給我幾秒鐘那天我在大院會裡的報告我有講這一話所以如何界定這不是我國防部的能力範圍要經過檢調單位\n\n28\n00:10:07,569 --> 00:10:26,629\n我當時也沒有什麼事後諸葛亮,我當時不知道,直接問我的反應,哪個支持者對他有利,他就是他的支持者,這沒有什麼好疑問的,但他因為他支持某人而危害了我們,檢調單位去做一個判斷,特別跟委員所說明,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t249\t羅委員好：\n12335\t29382\t部長今天你報告開頭就是說這份報告裡面就說以常態化灰色地帶侵擾並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽企圖片面改變台海現狀升高區域衝突\n30402\t51651\t所以這是您對近來我們兩岸之間的一個狀況的描述所以我認為部長你之前說會睡不著覺這是對國家安全的憂心那這也是國防部長的責任感那這一點我表示肯定但是我有一個感覺不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺我覺得好像我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢\n53972\t71657\t各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒啊你有沒有這個感覺啊不會欸 不會我跟委員報不會這樣子不會齁 那我來講齁這個整個行政團隊我也執行過行政院長這個陳建仁我們管委會海委會的主委管碧玲\n72297\t90286\t邱泰山陸委會主委甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高而且他強調他有在睡覺那為什麼大家可以睡得很好那你一個人就醒得很痛苦呢\n90686\t116503\t我跟委員給我一點時間,我對您要做說明好不好?國軍考量事情有真後以後,有事情以後還有很多假定事項但這個假定事項都是從最壞的來做一個打算所以我們想要做最壞的打算以便於我們做最好的準備所以這個立場、背景不一樣所以我有這種考量,我並不認為假定事項沒有這種考量就是好像不憂國憂民\n121146\t147185\t做最壞打算所以我也要講其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算的感覺那我要再問三立有一個獨家新聞他說總統府高層說你是自走炮還致電給你來要去了解你的發言原意而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛我想問第一個你認同自走炮這個批評嗎\n148166\t170822\t我沒有意見,因為人家給我取什麼外號,他左眼如何我都沒有意見啊,他的什麼出發點我也不瞭解,但我要跟委員報告,但我跟委員報告,到目前為止沒有人問我,你為什麼要這樣發言,為什麼要那樣發言那我要想請教您,您知道就是我剛剛講過質詢過很多的官員\n174673\t201882\t我一個感覺好像天下本太平自走炮自擾之習近平喊和平大家一起安心睡的感覺所以我想要請教最近有一個討論的話題因為習近平重生和平統一那很多人就看到說你看他都喊和平統一對不對那就代表和平就不會動武那我想請問您是這樣嗎你相信習近平\n203643\t222564\t我問委員報告我沒有什麼相信不相信但我們國軍在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後有些事情決定是一個定律就是因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷因為和平那我們就不要戰備了嗎?不會因為有和平所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎?不會\n223965\t244331\t所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。\n244591\t261218\t我覺得這部長的態度是正確的你也不能因為習近平一句話而喊和平統一好像就太平無事一樣那該要做的準備當然是要做準備但是下一個我就要問您因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅影響與應處作為可是我發現\n267641\t292307\t這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的\n292847\t300031\t我想請教,可是事實上我們政府的歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去嗎?是不是?\n313259\t337059\t我最起碼軍事當中兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況是我是講說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸的兵推會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去因為它每個層次不同所以為什麼對我有什麼評論我是完全在一個軍事立場來設想那我就從軍事立場來請教我們部長其實坦白講過去我看到民進黨的朋友\n337739\t337759\t：羅智強\n367449\t371870\t我這樣問好了我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來做一個類比那烏俄開戰美國跟歐洲各國皆會聲援都有聲援沒錯吧第一個當然第一個等級就是譴責俄國\n390982\t408103\t歐洲跟美國的幾個國家都譴責俄國第二個等級是經濟制裁技術很多經濟制裁的措施第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級就是派兵參戰\n409674\t424731\t目前我剛剛講了從來口會、實會我們都沒有考慮過口會旁邊拉拉隊一樣喊一喊換成我也喊一喊加油到底有沒有實會這是很重要的部長完全知道我要問什麼\n426012\t445830\t就是說前面譴責其實只是一種口惠當然經濟制裁提供武器軍事援助也還是有實質可是事實上很多在討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級就是派兵參戰但實際上之前日本官房長官其實他就說過一段話我看部長也有回應嘛\n446471\t475084\t他說他不能認同臺灣有事日本有事的觀點他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣這句話其實指的也不只是日本啦也包括美國因素所以在你的戰備考量之下我們就是自己國家自己救嘛您是這樣說嘛我也是這樣認為好接下來我想請教您下一個問題我想請教部長\n476084\t500545\t您知道這個 2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中攻擊台灣防疫而且散播親中言論寒可惡要大家移除衛福部的LINE帳號及管家我想請問您這算不算是有利中共不利台灣的訊息\n501513\t523116\t我跟委員剛剛有問到我們界定就是說你發表言論利於敵方不利於我方那你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方不利於我方當然也算了所以他就是在地協力權對 是不是有違反了什麼規定那不是我的責任那我跟部長說\n524557\t538805\t王定宇有痛批這是大陸滲透PTT搞認知作戰而且網友收錢擾亂台灣蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇可是你知道最後被查出來這一起所謂王定宇的中共擾亂台灣事件\n541087\t554929\t這個網友是范雲的學生綠營的寫手林偉峰自導自演他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任我想請問林偉峰是不是您定義的在地協力者中共在地協力者\n555863\t579614\t我跟委員報這個人我不認得我對一個不認得的人我沒辦法去做一個評論當然啦那我跟你講照這個標準林偉峰就是中共在地協力者而背後的民進黨千絲萬縷的關係民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎我最後還是給部長前面其實我都很肯定你但您這句話說真的我覺得講得不夠精確\n580774\t604828\t因為很多東西事實上要馬上所謂的用所謂有利不利來去做一個判準還是要回到法律的標準來看對不對那事實上犯法就抓去關啊這我也贊成所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點是謝謝委員我也要給我幾秒鐘那天我在大院會裡的報告我有講這一話所以如何界定這不是我國防部的能力範圍要經過檢調單位\n607569\t626629\t我當時也沒有什麼事後諸葛亮,我當時不知道,直接問我的反應,哪個支持者對他有利,他就是他的支持者,這沒有什麼好疑問的,但他因為他支持某人而危害了我們,檢調單位去做一個判斷,特別跟委員所說明,謝謝。\n","txt":"羅委員好：\n部長今天你報告開頭就是說這份報告裡面就說以常態化灰色地帶侵擾並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽企圖片面改變台海現狀升高區域衝突\n所以這是您對近來我們兩岸之間的一個狀況的描述所以我認為部長你之前說會睡不著覺這是對國家安全的憂心那這也是國防部長的責任感那這一點我表示肯定但是我有一個感覺不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺我覺得好像我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢\n各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒啊你有沒有這個感覺啊不會欸 不會我跟委員報不會這樣子不會齁 那我來講齁這個整個行政團隊我也執行過行政院長這個陳建仁我們管委會海委會的主委管碧玲\n邱泰山陸委會主委甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高而且他強調他有在睡覺那為什麼大家可以睡得很好那你一個人就醒得很痛苦呢\n我跟委員給我一點時間,我對您要做說明好不好?國軍考量事情有真後以後,有事情以後還有很多假定事項但這個假定事項都是從最壞的來做一個打算所以我們想要做最壞的打算以便於我們做最好的準備所以這個立場、背景不一樣所以我有這種考量,我並不認為假定事項沒有這種考量就是好像不憂國憂民\n做最壞打算所以我也要講其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算的感覺那我要再問三立有一個獨家新聞他說總統府高層說你是自走炮還致電給你來要去了解你的發言原意而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛我想問第一個你認同自走炮這個批評嗎\n我沒有意見,因為人家給我取什麼外號,他左眼如何我都沒有意見啊,他的什麼出發點我也不瞭解,但我要跟委員報告,但我跟委員報告,到目前為止沒有人問我,你為什麼要這樣發言,為什麼要那樣發言那我要想請教您,您知道就是我剛剛講過質詢過很多的官員\n我一個感覺好像天下本太平自走炮自擾之習近平喊和平大家一起安心睡的感覺所以我想要請教最近有一個討論的話題因為習近平重生和平統一那很多人就看到說你看他都喊和平統一對不對那就代表和平就不會動武那我想請問您是這樣嗎你相信習近平\n我問委員報告我沒有什麼相信不相信但我們國軍在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後有些事情決定是一個定律就是因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷因為和平那我們就不要戰備了嗎?不會因為有和平所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎?不會\n所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。\n我覺得這部長的態度是正確的你也不能因為習近平一句話而喊和平統一好像就太平無事一樣那該要做的準備當然是要做準備但是下一個我就要問您因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅影響與應處作為可是我發現\n這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的\n我想請教,可是事實上我們政府的歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去嗎?是不是?\n我最起碼軍事當中兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況是我是講說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸的兵推會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去因為它每個層次不同所以為什麼對我有什麼評論我是完全在一個軍事立場來設想那我就從軍事立場來請教我們部長其實坦白講過去我看到民進黨的朋友\n：羅智強\n我這樣問好了我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來做一個類比那烏俄開戰美國跟歐洲各國皆會聲援都有聲援沒錯吧第一個當然第一個等級就是譴責俄國\n歐洲跟美國的幾個國家都譴責俄國第二個等級是經濟制裁技術很多經濟制裁的措施第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級就是派兵參戰\n目前我剛剛講了從來口會、實會我們都沒有考慮過口會旁邊拉拉隊一樣喊一喊換成我也喊一喊加油到底有沒有實會這是很重要的部長完全知道我要問什麼\n就是說前面譴責其實只是一種口惠當然經濟制裁提供武器軍事援助也還是有實質可是事實上很多在討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級就是派兵參戰但實際上之前日本官房長官其實他就說過一段話我看部長也有回應嘛\n他說他不能認同臺灣有事日本有事的觀點他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣這句話其實指的也不只是日本啦也包括美國因素所以在你的戰備考量之下我們就是自己國家自己救嘛您是這樣說嘛我也是這樣認為好接下來我想請教您下一個問題我想請教部長\n您知道這個 2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中攻擊台灣防疫而且散播親中言論寒可惡要大家移除衛福部的LINE帳號及管家我想請問您這算不算是有利中共不利台灣的訊息\n我跟委員剛剛有問到我們界定就是說你發表言論利於敵方不利於我方那你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方不利於我方當然也算了所以他就是在地協力權對 是不是有違反了什麼規定那不是我的責任那我跟部長說\n王定宇有痛批這是大陸滲透PTT搞認知作戰而且網友收錢擾亂台灣蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇可是你知道最後被查出來這一起所謂王定宇的中共擾亂台灣事件\n這個網友是范雲的學生綠營的寫手林偉峰自導自演他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任我想請問林偉峰是不是您定義的在地協力者中共在地協力者\n我跟委員報這個人我不認得我對一個不認得的人我沒辦法去做一個評論當然啦那我跟你講照這個標準林偉峰就是中共在地協力者而背後的民進黨千絲萬縷的關係民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎我最後還是給部長前面其實我都很肯定你但您這句話說真的我覺得講得不夠精確\n因為很多東西事實上要馬上所謂的用所謂有利不利來去做一個判準還是要回到法律的標準來看對不對那事實上犯法就抓去關啊這我也贊成所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點是謝謝委員我也要給我幾秒鐘那天我在大院會裡的報告我有講這一話所以如何界定這不是我國防部的能力範圍要經過檢調單位\n我當時也沒有什麼事後諸葛亮,我當時不知道,直接問我的反應,哪個支持者對他有利,他就是他的支持者,這沒有什麼好疑問的,但他因為他支持某人而危害了我們,檢調單位去做一個判斷,特別跟委員所說明,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.249\n羅委員好：\n\n00:12.335 --> 00:29.382\n部長今天你報告開頭就是說這份報告裡面就說以常態化灰色地帶侵擾並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽企圖片面改變台海現狀升高區域衝突\n\n00:30.402 --> 00:51.651\n所以這是您對近來我們兩岸之間的一個狀況的描述所以我認為部長你之前說會睡不著覺這是對國家安全的憂心那這也是國防部長的責任感那這一點我表示肯定但是我有一個感覺不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺我覺得好像我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢\n\n00:53.972 --> 01:11.657\n各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒啊你有沒有這個感覺啊不會欸不會我跟委員報不會這樣子不會齁那我來講齁這個整個行政團隊我也執行過行政院長這個陳建仁我們管委會海委會的主委管碧玲\n\n01:12.297 --> 01:30.286\n邱泰山陸委會主委甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高而且他強調他有在睡覺那為什麼大家可以睡得很好那你一個人就醒得很痛苦呢\n\n01:30.686 --> 01:56.503\n我跟委員給我一點時間,我對您要做說明好不好?國軍考量事情有真後以後,有事情以後還有很多假定事項但這個假定事項都是從最壞的來做一個打算所以我們想要做最壞的打算以便於我們做最好的準備所以這個立場、背景不一樣所以我有這種考量,我並不認為假定事項沒有這種考量就是好像不憂國憂民\n\n02:01.146 --> 02:27.185\n做最壞打算所以我也要講其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算的感覺那我要再問三立有一個獨家新聞他說總統府高層說你是自走炮還致電給你來要去了解你的發言原意而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛我想問第一個你認同自走炮這個批評嗎\n\n02:28.166 --> 02:50.822\n我沒有意見,因為人家給我取什麼外號,他左眼如何我都沒有意見啊,他的什麼出發點我也不瞭解,但我要跟委員報告,但我跟委員報告,到目前為止沒有人問我,你為什麼要這樣發言,為什麼要那樣發言那我要想請教您,您知道就是我剛剛講過質詢過很多的官員\n\n02:54.673 --> 03:21.882\n我一個感覺好像天下本太平自走炮自擾之習近平喊和平大家一起安心睡的感覺所以我想要請教最近有一個討論的話題因為習近平重生和平統一那很多人就看到說你看他都喊和平統一對不對那就代表和平就不會動武那我想請問您是這樣嗎你相信習近平\n\n03:23.643 --> 03:42.564\n我問委員報告我沒有什麼相信不相信但我們國軍在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後有些事情決定是一個定律就是因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷因為和平那我們就不要戰備了嗎?不會因為有和平所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎?不會\n\n03:43.965 --> 04:04.331\n所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。\n\n04:04.591 --> 04:21.218\n我覺得這部長的態度是正確的你也不能因為習近平一句話而喊和平統一好像就太平無事一樣那該要做的準備當然是要做準備但是下一個我就要問您因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅影響與應處作為可是我發現\n\n04:27.641 --> 04:52.307\n這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的\n\n04:52.847 --> 05:00.031\n我想請教,可是事實上我們政府的歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去嗎?是不是?\n\n05:13.259 --> 05:37.059\n我最起碼軍事當中兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況是我是講說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸的兵推會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去因為它每個層次不同所以為什麼對我有什麼評論我是完全在一個軍事立場來設想那我就從軍事立場來請教我們部長其實坦白講過去我看到民進黨的朋友\n\n05:37.739 --> 05:37.759\n：羅智強\n\n06:07.449 --> 06:11.870\n我這樣問好了我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來做一個類比那烏俄開戰美國跟歐洲各國皆會聲援都有聲援沒錯吧第一個當然第一個等級就是譴責俄國\n\n06:30.982 --> 06:48.103\n歐洲跟美國的幾個國家都譴責俄國第二個等級是經濟制裁技術很多經濟制裁的措施第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級就是派兵參戰\n\n06:49.674 --> 07:04.731\n目前我剛剛講了從來口會、實會我們都沒有考慮過口會旁邊拉拉隊一樣喊一喊換成我也喊一喊加油到底有沒有實會這是很重要的部長完全知道我要問什麼\n\n07:06.012 --> 07:25.830\n就是說前面譴責其實只是一種口惠當然經濟制裁提供武器軍事援助也還是有實質可是事實上很多在討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級就是派兵參戰但實際上之前日本官房長官其實他就說過一段話我看部長也有回應嘛\n\n07:26.471 --> 07:55.084\n他說他不能認同臺灣有事日本有事的觀點他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣這句話其實指的也不只是日本啦也包括美國因素所以在你的戰備考量之下我們就是自己國家自己救嘛您是這樣說嘛我也是這樣認為好接下來我想請教您下一個問題我想請教部長\n\n07:56.084 --> 08:20.545\n您知道這個2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中攻擊台灣防疫而且散播親中言論寒可惡要大家移除衛福部的LINE帳號及管家我想請問您這算不算是有利中共不利台灣的訊息\n\n08:21.513 --> 08:43.116\n我跟委員剛剛有問到我們界定就是說你發表言論利於敵方不利於我方那你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方不利於我方當然也算了所以他就是在地協力權對是不是有違反了什麼規定那不是我的責任那我跟部長說\n\n08:44.557 --> 08:58.805\n王定宇有痛批這是大陸滲透PTT搞認知作戰而且網友收錢擾亂台灣蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇可是你知道最後被查出來這一起所謂王定宇的中共擾亂台灣事件\n\n09:01.087 --> 09:14.929\n這個網友是范雲的學生綠營的寫手林偉峰自導自演他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任我想請問林偉峰是不是您定義的在地協力者中共在地協力者\n\n09:15.863 --> 09:39.614\n我跟委員報這個人我不認得我對一個不認得的人我沒辦法去做一個評論當然啦那我跟你講照這個標準林偉峰就是中共在地協力者而背後的民進黨千絲萬縷的關係民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎我最後還是給部長前面其實我都很肯定你但您這句話說真的我覺得講得不夠精確\n\n09:40.774 --> 10:04.828\n因為很多東西事實上要馬上所謂的用所謂有利不利來去做一個判準還是要回到法律的標準來看對不對那事實上犯法就抓去關啊這我也贊成所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點是謝謝委員我也要給我幾秒鐘那天我在大院會裡的報告我有講這一話所以如何界定這不是我國防部的能力範圍要經過檢調單位\n\n10:07.569 --> 10:26.629\n我當時也沒有什麼事後諸葛亮,我當時不知道,直接問我的反應,哪個支持者對他有利,他就是他的支持者,這沒有什麼好疑問的,但他因為他支持某人而危害了我們,檢調單位去做一個判斷,特別跟委員所說明,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.249,"text":"羅委員好："},{"start":12.335,"end":29.382,"text":"部長今天你報告開頭就是說這份報告裡面就說以常態化灰色地帶侵擾並用認知作戰打擊與混淆國際視聽企圖片面改變台海現狀升高區域衝突"},{"start":30.402,"end":51.651,"text":"所以這是您對近來我們兩岸之間的一個狀況的描述所以我認為部長你之前說會睡不著覺這是對國家安全的憂心那這也是國防部長的責任感那這一點我表示肯定但是我有一個感覺不知道部長有沒有同樣的感覺我覺得好像我最近已經質詢了快20場的質詢"},{"start":53.972,"end":71.657,"text":"各部會相關的官員我感覺到好像眾人皆睡你獨醒啊你有沒有這個感覺啊不會欸 不會我跟委員報不會這樣子不會齁 那我來講齁這個整個行政團隊我也執行過行政院長這個陳建仁我們管委會海委會的主委管碧玲"},{"start":72.297,"end":90.286,"text":"邱泰山陸委會主委甚至國安局局長蔡明彥都說目前沒有任何情資顯示臺海緊張情勢有持續升高而且他強調他有在睡覺那為什麼大家可以睡得很好那你一個人就醒得很痛苦呢"},{"start":90.686,"end":116.503,"text":"我跟委員給我一點時間,我對您要做說明好不好?國軍考量事情有真後以後,有事情以後還有很多假定事項但這個假定事項都是從最壞的來做一個打算所以我們想要做最壞的打算以便於我們做最好的準備所以這個立場、背景不一樣所以我有這種考量,我並不認為假定事項沒有這種考量就是好像不憂國憂民"},{"start":121.146,"end":147.185,"text":"做最壞打算所以我也要講其他部會真的好像都在做最好打算的感覺那我要再問三立有一個獨家新聞他說總統府高層說你是自走炮還致電給你來要去了解你的發言原意而且你的屢屢爭議發言讓府方很頭痛我想問第一個你認同自走炮這個批評嗎"},{"start":148.166,"end":170.822,"text":"我沒有意見,因為人家給我取什麼外號,他左眼如何我都沒有意見啊,他的什麼出發點我也不瞭解,但我要跟委員報告,但我跟委員報告,到目前為止沒有人問我,你為什麼要這樣發言,為什麼要那樣發言那我要想請教您,您知道就是我剛剛講過質詢過很多的官員"},{"start":174.673,"end":201.882,"text":"我一個感覺好像天下本太平自走炮自擾之習近平喊和平大家一起安心睡的感覺所以我想要請教最近有一個討論的話題因為習近平重生和平統一那很多人就看到說你看他都喊和平統一對不對那就代表和平就不會動武那我想請問您是這樣嗎你相信習近平"},{"start":203.643,"end":222.564,"text":"我問委員報告我沒有什麼相信不相信但我們國軍在國軍部隊裡面待久了以後有些事情決定是一個定律就是因為人家一句話而改變了自己的初衷因為和平那我們就不要戰備了嗎?不會因為有和平所以我們就比較鬆懈嗎?不會"},{"start":223.965,"end":244.331,"text":"所以我覺得在這一方面我是一個蠻好的一個跟國軍同仁一樣的一個大原則,絕對抓住。不為人家一句話,我們就改變我們自己,就放鬆或緊繃了。所以人家也不講一句話,我就變很緊張,整個方寸就亂了。我想這是很重要的。"},{"start":244.591,"end":261.218,"text":"我覺得這部長的態度是正確的你也不能因為習近平一句話而喊和平統一好像就太平無事一樣那該要做的準備當然是要做準備但是下一個我就要問您因為今天您的報告是面對中共常態化對我侵擾與威脅影響與應處作為可是我發現"},{"start":267.641,"end":292.307,"text":"這個全篇報告只字未提美國、日本那意思是在面對中共常態化的侵擾威脅所以日本跟美國因素不重要嗎?不是不重要,但我們全部不指望因為他到底會採取什麼樣一個反應或動作我們是完全不知道的所以我們不能把它列為我們認為他會如何這樣的話會有違我們國軍建軍備在一個概念的"},{"start":292.847,"end":300.031,"text":"我想請教,可是事實上我們政府的歷次兵推也會把美國的狀況考量進去嗎?是不是?"},{"start":313.259,"end":337.059,"text":"我最起碼軍事當中兵推我沒有遇過這個狀況是我是講說整個政府在做所謂的兩岸的兵推會不會把美國跟日本因素考慮進去因為它每個層次不同所以為什麼對我有什麼評論我是完全在一個軍事立場來設想那我就從軍事立場來請教我們部長其實坦白講過去我看到民進黨的朋友"},{"start":337.739,"end":337.759,"text":"：羅智強"},{"start":367.449,"end":371.87,"text":"我這樣問好了我們就拿烏克蘭戰爭來做一個類比那烏俄開戰美國跟歐洲各國皆會聲援都有聲援沒錯吧第一個當然第一個等級就是譴責俄國"},{"start":390.982,"end":408.103,"text":"歐洲跟美國的幾個國家都譴責俄國第二個等級是經濟制裁技術很多經濟制裁的措施第三個等級是提供武器跟軍事援助可是到目前為止有沒有到第四個等級就是派兵參戰"},{"start":409.674,"end":424.731,"text":"目前我剛剛講了從來口會、實會我們都沒有考慮過口會旁邊拉拉隊一樣喊一喊換成我也喊一喊加油到底有沒有實會這是很重要的部長完全知道我要問什麼"},{"start":426.012,"end":445.83,"text":"就是說前面譴責其實只是一種口惠當然經濟制裁提供武器軍事援助也還是有實質可是事實上很多在討論當中都把它界定到最後一個等級就是派兵參戰但實際上之前日本官房長官其實他就說過一段話我看部長也有回應嘛"},{"start":446.471,"end":475.084,"text":"他說他不能認同臺灣有事日本有事的觀點他認為兩岸如果爆發戰爭日本協防臺灣可能面臨重大的損失所以臺灣不應期待日本協防臺灣這句話其實指的也不只是日本啦也包括美國因素所以在你的戰備考量之下我們就是自己國家自己救嘛您是這樣說嘛我也是這樣認為好接下來我想請教您下一個問題我想請教部長"},{"start":476.084,"end":500.545,"text":"您知道這個 2021年疫情期間有位網友在PTT上辱罵陳時中攻擊台灣防疫而且散播親中言論寒可惡要大家移除衛福部的LINE帳號及管家我想請問您這算不算是有利中共不利台灣的訊息"},{"start":501.513,"end":523.116,"text":"我跟委員剛剛有問到我們界定就是說你發表言論利於敵方不利於我方那你覺得這個訊息算不算利於敵方不利於我方當然也算了所以他就是在地協力權對 是不是有違反了什麼規定那不是我的責任那我跟部長說"},{"start":524.557,"end":538.805,"text":"王定宇有痛批這是大陸滲透PTT搞認知作戰而且網友收錢擾亂台灣蔡英文在臉書也附和王定宇可是你知道最後被查出來這一起所謂王定宇的中共擾亂台灣事件"},{"start":541.087,"end":554.929,"text":"這個網友是范雲的學生綠營的寫手林偉峰自導自演他的老婆還是當時民進黨媒體社群中心副主任我想請問林偉峰是不是您定義的在地協力者中共在地協力者"},{"start":555.863,"end":579.614,"text":"我跟委員報這個人我不認得我對一個不認得的人我沒辦法去做一個評論當然啦那我跟你講照這個標準林偉峰就是中共在地協力者而背後的民進黨千絲萬縷的關係民進黨也是中共在地協力者嗎我最後還是給部長前面其實我都很肯定你但您這句話說真的我覺得講得不夠精確"},{"start":580.774,"end":604.828,"text":"因為很多東西事實上要馬上所謂的用所謂有利不利來去做一個判準還是要回到法律的標準來看對不對那事實上犯法就抓去關啊這我也贊成所以請部長以後這類型的說法可能要更精確一點點是謝謝委員我也要給我幾秒鐘那天我在大院會裡的報告我有講這一話所以如何界定這不是我國防部的能力範圍要經過檢調單位"},{"start":607.569,"end":626.629,"text":"我當時也沒有什麼事後諸葛亮,我當時不知道,直接問我的反應,哪個支持者對他有利,他就是他的支持者,這沒有什麼好疑問的,但他因為他支持某人而危害了我們,檢調單位去做一個判斷,特別跟委員所說明,謝謝。"}]}}}}