{"id":149890,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149890","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d23135680de7d0f46de3eb08cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a60665fd020f2568485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:27:46 - 11:35:44","影片長度":"00:07:58","會議時間":"2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月13日及14日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-5"},"date":"2024-03-14","duration":478,"end_time":"2024-03-14T11:35:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-14T11:27:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1299,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時28分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，想邀請部長跟化學署謝署長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好，署長。我們知道食品非法添加蘇丹紅是現在重大的食安事故，從懷疑紅色的辣椒粉安全性到多種原料混合咖哩粉，到後來消費者自己也害怕了，連白色的胡椒粉也產生戒心。現在有很多地方政府採用預防性的下架措施，教育局也暫停使用相關產品在營養午餐，這是必要的保障孩童的安全；但是另外一面，也造成合法供應商或是餐飲業的損失，就是管控造成這樣的問題。所以本席要請教部長，這是不是我們的化學物質管理漏洞呢？你的源頭管理為什麼會這麼失靈呢？後續你要怎麼樣去補強源頭管理？請做說明。"],["薛部長富盛：跟楊委員報告，這個標題事實上是不妥，因為化學署……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼會不妥呢？人家都已經預防性下架了，你沒有資格去批評、反質詢說這個標語妥不妥，而是你要去說明，你要用你的內容去告訴民眾要如何放心，它已經預防性下架，你還直接講這個……"],["薛部長富盛：楊委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席邀請你上來，是要聽你專業的立場，好嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本來就失靈，才會產生預防性的下架，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：給楊委員報告，化學署在負責我們化學雲，我們做源頭管理，事實上蘇丹紅是環境部27種、34項毒化物裡的一種，它不能加到食品裡面去，我們在過去這6、7年來，國內並沒有系統性把27種的毒化物添加到食品的案例，都沒有，這一次的蘇丹紅事件……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，本席問你，現在已經產生這樣的現象，你要怎麼樣去預防調整你們的腳步，這是本席要聽的。"],["薛部長富盛：基本上我們在這一塊，事實上在化學原料的部分給食藥署，告訴他們說過去這一年來進口的蘇丹紅色素有39家，這39家都取得環境部化學署的運作核可，他們去年總共才進口101克，使用才41克，所以並沒有流去做食品添加物的這一塊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你這麼回答讓我們更緊張了，市面上已經產生這樣的現象，政府的主管機關單位告訴我們是沒有的，那它是從哪裡掉下來的呢？"],["薛部長富盛：楊委員，那個是辣椒粉從中國製造運到臺灣來，所以事實上是在海關把關，在去年抽驗從20%開始一直到去年底就100%去檢驗了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個部分我們也跟另外一個薛部長討論過，已經發生那麼嚴重的問題結果還是20%，等到嚴重了它才變50%，等到非常、非常、非常全面性的時候，它才變成100%，所以他自己也承認是速度慢了點。本席之所以跟你提出這樣的議題，也就是說一個政府的橫向組織必須嚴密的，要怎麼樣以專業的立場去告訴民眾可以安心，這是我們今天質詢的重點。所以本席要跟你討論的也就是從112年8月底，57種的食安疑慮化學物質當中還有20種，對不對？謝署長，還有20種你沒有辦法以物質法的方式去納管，那你現在是用暫不列管或者是暫緩列管或者是回歸衛福部去管，是不是如此？請做說明。"],["謝署長燕儒：跟委員報告，我們一直陸陸續續把它檢討，用毒管法公告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你現在還有20種呀！"],["謝署長燕儒：這裡的20種其實這些廠商本來就要跟經濟部申報，所以這些還是有申報資料，所以我們化學雲這邊也會把它匡進來，因為這裡面又有17項跟食品添加物是同品項，其實東西是一樣，只是它身分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在講到重點了，部長，你們的署長好！他講到重點，也就是人民已經碰到困難，那政府各部門要怎樣去橫向聯繫。因此我要告訴部長，我們目前符合列管的初衷，我相信大家都希望把它做好，同仁也辛苦，但問題是我們產生了這個問題，也就是出了問題就說督促業主自主管理啊，但是我覺得這樣政府不對，你有權力應該就要去執行之。"],["薛部長富盛：是！包括稽核。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因此你整個化學物質的流向、儲存、標示跟販賣，還有20項目前是沒有聚在你的法律約束裡頭，所以在這樣的情況之下會有漏洞，57種裡頭你們目前還有20種沒有納進來，本席希望你們再去討論可以怎麼樣。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你如果從源頭我們才會安心啊，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把你們討論的結果告訴本席。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，我給你功課，你書面資料給本席就好。歐洲議會跟歐盟理事會在2022年12月13號已經達成共識，2023年10月1號開始要實施碳邊境的調整機制，也就是CBAM的申報，2026年要開始課這個關稅，在這樣的情況之下，包括在生產過程、運輸過程當中所產生的直接排放，這些以及上下游供應鏈間接排放都納入在它要課的範圍之內。這對於我們的企業來講，在歐盟部分我們是以鋼鐵業為主，螺絲帽……"],["薛部長富盛：是，螺絲螺帽。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：鋼線鋼纜、模具，我們的模具最厲害！那在這樣的情況之下，我們很多中小企業在出口的時候會碰到這麼大的困難，所以本席要請你輔導這些老闆在碳盤查以及申報過程如何可以簡化。一旦歐盟確定……它一定會課嘛，一旦它課的時候，那麼我方要怎麼樣跟國際接軌？我們環境部雖然腳程慢了一點，我們還是希望……你們明天要開會，要趕快！因為人家都已經拿出時間點了，我們還不知道我的足跡在哪裡、我要怎麼課？對不對？所以我給你這個功課，我會繼續追，你把你們明天開會預計要怎麼做、怎麼協助我們的中小企業，告訴我們方案，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，可以，謝謝楊委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員。","我們現在要處理臨時提案，總共有5案，請一併宣讀。","一、","根據環境部規劃，碳費將於民國113年開始徵收，首場碳費審議會也將本（113）年3月15號舉行，各界關心碳費機制上路恐會造成「綠色通膨」，主計總處也將「減碳政策對國內經濟與物價之影響」納入通膨的不確定因素中，主計長朱澤民更曾表示，一旦開徵碳費，勢必提高企業成本，可能發生轉嫁效應，進而影響物價。時值台灣電力公司擬在4月全面調漲電價，各界擔心可能再帶動拉高物價，碳費機制的實施恐使物價漲幅雪上加霜，衝擊民生經濟，但環境部過往公告竟僅以「業者訂價應多方思考，不應藉此哄抬產品價格」徒托空言，無助控制物價調漲。薛富盛部長曾表示，擬將消費者物價指數（CPI）納入碳費費率考量，以避免引發物價波動，然《碳費費率審議會設置要點》第9條碳費考量因素，條文中除溫室氣體、排放量以及減量等環境因素外，僅有一概括性質之「其他相關因素」，並於條文說明表示包含經濟影響評估為依據，實過於籠統草率，且未能明確律定審議委員會應考量通膨與經濟衝擊，爰此提案要求環境部儘速修改該要點，明定消費者物價指數（CPI）或相關經濟指標為審議因素，以期確保穩定民生物價，是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　涂權吉　　","二、","有鑑於環境部於112年12月，宣示將對新設SRF製造廠加強品質規範與管理，針對既設廠將規劃執行稽查輔導專案計畫，檢視料源、製造及使用各環節是否符合規定，並要求落實SRF採樣及檢測，以確保製造品質。惟經查，目前環境部資源循環署「資源回收處理衍生廢棄物」媒合去化平台，提供之SRF製造廠名單中僅有兩家業者提供SRF檢測報告，顯示環境部未能要求業者落實SRF採樣及檢測，對於製造廠之品質管控難以發揮成效。","爰要求環境部於一個月內，將「針對SRF製造廠之稽查輔導專案計畫」執行狀況，以及加強落實SRF採樣及檢測之具體策進作為，向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：王育敏　　涂權吉　　陳菁徽　　盧縣一　　","三、","有鑑於環保先進國家之廢棄物管理政策，已走向資源循環利用，可燃廢棄資源燃料化（Solid Recovered 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{\"word\": \"偉\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,981 --> 00:00:31,980\n謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請部長跟謝署長化學學部長好楊委員好是部長好好校長部長好那這個我們知道食品非法的添加蘇丹紅是現在是重大的食安事故那從懷疑這個紅色的辣椒粉安全性到多種原料混合咖啡粉\n\n2\n00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:57,139\n到後來消費者自己喔也害怕了連呢白色的胡椒粉也產生了戒心喔也產生了戒心那現在有很多的這個地方政府呢他採用喔採用預防性的下架措施那教育局也暫停使用相關的產品在營養午餐這個是必要的保障孩童的安全但是另外一面\n\n3\n00:00:57,799 --> 00:01:17,573\n也造成了合法供應商呢或者是餐飲業的一個損失對不對所以就管控的問題產生這樣的問題所以本席要請教部長這是不是我們的化學物質管理漏洞呢你的源頭管理為什麼會這麼失靈呢後續你要怎麼樣去補強這個源頭的管理楊委員報告這個標題事實上是這個不妥啦因為\n\n4\n00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,841\n怎麼會不妥呢?人家都已經律行性啊你沒有資格去批評這個反質詢說這個標語同不同而是你要去說明你要用你的內容去告訴民眾你要怎麼樣放心他已經預防性的下架你還直接講這個本席要邀請你上來是要聽你專業的立場好嗎?本來就失靈嘛才會產生這預防性的下架嘛對不對?\n\n5\n00:01:55,925 --> 00:02:21,893\n給楊委員報告就是說化學署在負責我們化學營那我們做源頭管理那蘇丹紅他事實上是我們環境部27種34項的毒化物裡面的一種他不能加到食品裡面去那我們在過去這六七年來國內並沒有系統性把\n\n6\n00:02:42,829 --> 00:03:04,450\n我們基本上在這一塊事實上在化學營料的部分給食藥署告訴他們說過去這一年來進口的蘇丹色素有39家那這39家都取得環境部化學署裡面的運作的一個合格\n\n7\n00:03:05,151 --> 00:03:30,938\n那他們總共呢去年才進口101克使用才41克所以並沒有留到去做食品添加物的這一塊你這麼回答讓我們更緊張了市面上已經產生這樣的現象那政府的主管機關單位告訴我們是沒有的那他是從哪裡掉下來的呢那個是辣椒粉從中國製造\n\n8\n00:03:33,127 --> 00:03:48,238\n應到臺灣來所以事實上是在海關把關在去年的時候他抽驗從20%開始一直拉到去年底就百分之百去檢驗這個部分我們也給另外一個學部長去討論過\n\n9\n00:04:05,869 --> 00:04:23,716\n當一個政府它的橫向組織是必須是嚴密的要怎麼樣以專業的立場去告訴民眾這個安心這是我們今天質詢的重點所以本期要跟你討論的也就是從112年8月底57種的食安一律化學物質當中還有20種對不對那個謝署長還有20種你沒有辦法以物質\n\n10\n00:04:29,938 --> 00:04:56,437\n以物質法的方式去納管那你現在是用正部列管或者是暫緩列管或者是回歸衛福部去管嗎是不是如此請做說明跟委員報告就是我們一直陸陸續續把它檢討用獨安法公告現在還有20種還有20種20種這裡其實本來就有在經濟部那邊就這些廠商要跟他們申報所以這些還是有申報資料所以我們化學院這邊會把它框進來\n\n11\n00:04:57,518 --> 00:05:19,899\n然後呢因為這個裡面又有這個17項是跟食品添加物是同品項的其實他東西是一樣只是他身份不是你現在講到重點了這個部長這個你們的署長好他講到重點了也就是人民已經碰到困難那政府各部門要怎樣去橫向去聯繫所以因此我要告訴部長\n\n12\n00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:43,376\n我們目前符合列管的初衷我相信大家都希望把它做好同意也辛苦但是問題我們產生的這個問題呢也就是出了問題就說欸督促業主自主管理啊但是我覺得這樣政府不對你應該有權利你就要去執行之你也認同所以因此你整個化學物質的流向\n\n13\n00:05:44,116 --> 00:06:07,421\n除純標示跟販賣他還有20項他目前是沒有聚在你的法律約束裡頭所以在這樣的情況之下會有漏洞所以本期希望57種裡頭我們目前還有20種還沒有納進來你們再去討論可以怎麼樣因為你如果從源頭我們才會安心啊好不好\n\n14\n00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:29,470\n你把你們去討論的結果告訴本席最後一個議題我給你功課你順便資料給本席就好歐洲議會跟歐盟理事會在2022年的12月13號他已經達成共識2023年10月1號開始要實施看邊境的調整機制也就是CPA\n\n15\n00:06:30,950 --> 00:06:55,803\n的這個這個這個申報2026你要開始喔要開始課這個關稅那在這樣的情況之下包括在生產過程運輸過程當中所產生的直接排放這些以及上下游供應鏈都在間接排放都納入在這個這個他要課的範圍之內那這個對於我們的企業來講在歐盟部分我們是以鋼鐵業為主喔那\n\n16\n00:07:01,346 --> 00:07:19,394\n蘿絲帽鋼線鋼纜模具在這樣的情況之下我們很多的中小企業在出口的時候會碰到這麼大的困難所以本席要請你輔導我們老闆在探盤查以及這個申報的這個過程如何可以簡化一旦\n\n17\n00:07:20,334 --> 00:07:49,198\n歐盟確定一定會求的嘛一旦他課的時候那麼我方要怎麼樣跟國際接軌我們環境部雖然腳程慢了一點我們還是願意希望你們明天要開會要趕快要趕快因為人家都已經拿出時間點了我們還不知道我的足跡在哪裡我要怎麼課對不對所以我給你這個功課我會繼續追你把你們明天開會預計要怎麼做怎麼協助我們的中小企業\n\n18\n00:07:49,858 --> 00:07:53,891\n是告訴我們方案好不好OK好不好好謝謝楊偉好謝謝呃楊偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4981\t31980\t謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請部長跟謝署長化學學部長好楊委員好是部長好好校長部長好那這個我們知道食品非法的添加蘇丹紅是現在是重大的食安事故那從懷疑這個紅色的辣椒粉安全性到多種原料混合咖啡粉\n32600\t57139\t到後來消費者自己喔也害怕了連呢白色的胡椒粉也產生了戒心喔也產生了戒心那現在有很多的這個地方政府呢他採用喔採用預防性的下架措施那教育局也暫停使用相關的產品在營養午餐這個是必要的保障孩童的安全但是另外一面\n57799\t77573\t也造成了合法供應商呢或者是餐飲業的一個損失對不對所以就管控的問題產生這樣的問題所以本席要請教部長這是不是我們的化學物質管理漏洞呢你的源頭管理為什麼會這麼失靈呢後續你要怎麼樣去補強這個源頭的管理楊委員報告這個標題事實上是這個不妥啦因為\n86880\t89841\t怎麼會不妥呢?人家都已經律行性啊你沒有資格去批評這個反質詢說這個標語同不同而是你要去說明你要用你的內容去告訴民眾你要怎麼樣放心他已經預防性的下架你還直接講這個本席要邀請你上來是要聽你專業的立場好嗎?本來就失靈嘛才會產生這預防性的下架嘛對不對?\n115925\t141893\t給楊委員報告就是說化學署在負責我們化學營那我們做源頭管理那蘇丹紅他事實上是我們環境部27種34項的毒化物裡面的一種他不能加到食品裡面去那我們在過去這六七年來國內並沒有系統性把\n145094\t162210\t﹚楊瓊瓔\n162829\t184450\t我們基本上在這一塊事實上在化學營料的部分給食藥署告訴他們說過去這一年來進口的蘇丹色素有39家那這39家都取得環境部化學署裡面的運作的一個合格\n185151\t210938\t那他們總共呢去年才進口101克使用才41克所以並沒有留到去做食品添加物的這一塊你這麼回答讓我們更緊張了市面上已經產生這樣的現象那政府的主管機關單位告訴我們是沒有的那他是從哪裡掉下來的呢那個是辣椒粉從中國製造\n213127\t228238\t應到臺灣來所以事實上是在海關把關在去年的時候他抽驗從20%開始一直拉到去年底就百分之百去檢驗這個部分我們也給另外一個學部長去討論過\n229599\t245469\t﹖\n245869\t263716\t當一個政府它的橫向組織是必須是嚴密的要怎麼樣以專業的立場去告訴民眾這個安心這是我們今天質詢的重點所以本期要跟你討論的也就是從112年8月底57種的食安一律化學物質當中還有20種對不對那個謝署長還有20種你沒有辦法以物質\n269938\t296437\t以物質法的方式去納管那你現在是用正部列管或者是暫緩列管或者是回歸衛福部去管嗎是不是如此請做說明跟委員報告就是我們一直陸陸續續把它檢討用獨安法公告現在還有20種還有20種20種這裡其實本來就有在經濟部那邊就這些廠商要跟他們申報所以這些還是有申報資料所以我們化學院這邊會把它框進來\n297518\t319899\t然後呢因為這個裡面又有這個17項是跟食品添加物是同品項的其實他東西是一樣只是他身份不是你現在講到重點了這個部長這個你們的署長好他講到重點了也就是人民已經碰到困難那政府各部門要怎樣去橫向去聯繫所以因此我要告訴部長\n320740\t343376\t我們目前符合列管的初衷我相信大家都希望把它做好同意也辛苦但是問題我們產生的這個問題呢也就是出了問題就說欸督促業主自主管理啊但是我覺得這樣政府不對你應該有權利你就要去執行之你也認同所以因此你整個化學物質的流向\n344116\t367421\t除純標示跟販賣他還有20項他目前是沒有聚在你的法律約束裡頭所以在這樣的情況之下會有漏洞所以本期希望57種裡頭我們目前還有20種還沒有納進來你們再去討論可以怎麼樣因為你如果從源頭我們才會安心啊好不好\n368201\t389470\t你把你們去討論的結果告訴本席最後一個議題我給你功課你順便資料給本席就好歐洲議會跟歐盟理事會在2022年的12月13號他已經達成共識2023年10月1號開始要實施看邊境的調整機制也就是CPA\n390950\t415803\t的這個這個這個申報2026你要開始喔要開始課這個關稅那在這樣的情況之下包括在生產過程運輸過程當中所產生的直接排放這些以及上下游供應鏈都在間接排放都納入在這個這個他要課的範圍之內那這個對於我們的企業來講在歐盟部分我們是以鋼鐵業為主喔那\n421346\t439394\t蘿絲帽 鋼線鋼纜模具在這樣的情況之下我們很多的中小企業在出口的時候會碰到這麼大的困難所以本席要請你輔導我們老闆在探盤查以及這個申報的這個過程如何可以簡化一旦\n440334\t469198\t歐盟確定一定會求的嘛一旦他課的時候那麼我方要怎麼樣跟國際接軌我們環境部雖然腳程慢了一點我們還是願意希望你們明天要開會要趕快要趕快因為人家都已經拿出時間點了我們還不知道我的足跡在哪裡我要怎麼課對不對所以我給你這個功課我會繼續追你把你們明天開會預計要怎麼做怎麼協助我們的中小企業\n469858\t473891\t是告訴我們方案好不好OK好不好好謝謝楊偉好謝謝呃楊偉\n","txt":"謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請部長跟謝署長化學學部長好楊委員好是部長好好校長部長好那這個我們知道食品非法的添加蘇丹紅是現在是重大的食安事故那從懷疑這個紅色的辣椒粉安全性到多種原料混合咖啡粉\n到後來消費者自己喔也害怕了連呢白色的胡椒粉也產生了戒心喔也產生了戒心那現在有很多的這個地方政府呢他採用喔採用預防性的下架措施那教育局也暫停使用相關的產品在營養午餐這個是必要的保障孩童的安全但是另外一面\n也造成了合法供應商呢或者是餐飲業的一個損失對不對所以就管控的問題產生這樣的問題所以本席要請教部長這是不是我們的化學物質管理漏洞呢你的源頭管理為什麼會這麼失靈呢後續你要怎麼樣去補強這個源頭的管理楊委員報告這個標題事實上是這個不妥啦因為\n怎麼會不妥呢?人家都已經律行性啊你沒有資格去批評這個反質詢說這個標語同不同而是你要去說明你要用你的內容去告訴民眾你要怎麼樣放心他已經預防性的下架你還直接講這個本席要邀請你上來是要聽你專業的立場好嗎?本來就失靈嘛才會產生這預防性的下架嘛對不對?\n給楊委員報告就是說化學署在負責我們化學營那我們做源頭管理那蘇丹紅他事實上是我們環境部27種34項的毒化物裡面的一種他不能加到食品裡面去那我們在過去這六七年來國內並沒有系統性把\n﹚楊瓊瓔\n我們基本上在這一塊事實上在化學營料的部分給食藥署告訴他們說過去這一年來進口的蘇丹色素有39家那這39家都取得環境部化學署裡面的運作的一個合格\n那他們總共呢去年才進口101克使用才41克所以並沒有留到去做食品添加物的這一塊你這麼回答讓我們更緊張了市面上已經產生這樣的現象那政府的主管機關單位告訴我們是沒有的那他是從哪裡掉下來的呢那個是辣椒粉從中國製造\n應到臺灣來所以事實上是在海關把關在去年的時候他抽驗從20%開始一直拉到去年底就百分之百去檢驗這個部分我們也給另外一個學部長去討論過\n﹖\n當一個政府它的橫向組織是必須是嚴密的要怎麼樣以專業的立場去告訴民眾這個安心這是我們今天質詢的重點所以本期要跟你討論的也就是從112年8月底57種的食安一律化學物質當中還有20種對不對那個謝署長還有20種你沒有辦法以物質\n以物質法的方式去納管那你現在是用正部列管或者是暫緩列管或者是回歸衛福部去管嗎是不是如此請做說明跟委員報告就是我們一直陸陸續續把它檢討用獨安法公告現在還有20種還有20種20種這裡其實本來就有在經濟部那邊就這些廠商要跟他們申報所以這些還是有申報資料所以我們化學院這邊會把它框進來\n然後呢因為這個裡面又有這個17項是跟食品添加物是同品項的其實他東西是一樣只是他身份不是你現在講到重點了這個部長這個你們的署長好他講到重點了也就是人民已經碰到困難那政府各部門要怎樣去橫向去聯繫所以因此我要告訴部長\n我們目前符合列管的初衷我相信大家都希望把它做好同意也辛苦但是問題我們產生的這個問題呢也就是出了問題就說欸督促業主自主管理啊但是我覺得這樣政府不對你應該有權利你就要去執行之你也認同所以因此你整個化學物質的流向\n除純標示跟販賣他還有20項他目前是沒有聚在你的法律約束裡頭所以在這樣的情況之下會有漏洞所以本期希望57種裡頭我們目前還有20種還沒有納進來你們再去討論可以怎麼樣因為你如果從源頭我們才會安心啊好不好\n你把你們去討論的結果告訴本席最後一個議題我給你功課你順便資料給本席就好歐洲議會跟歐盟理事會在2022年的12月13號他已經達成共識2023年10月1號開始要實施看邊境的調整機制也就是CPA\n的這個這個這個申報2026你要開始喔要開始課這個關稅那在這樣的情況之下包括在生產過程運輸過程當中所產生的直接排放這些以及上下游供應鏈都在間接排放都納入在這個這個他要課的範圍之內那這個對於我們的企業來講在歐盟部分我們是以鋼鐵業為主喔那\n蘿絲帽 鋼線鋼纜模具在這樣的情況之下我們很多的中小企業在出口的時候會碰到這麼大的困難所以本席要請你輔導我們老闆在探盤查以及這個申報的這個過程如何可以簡化一旦\n歐盟確定一定會求的嘛一旦他課的時候那麼我方要怎麼樣跟國際接軌我們環境部雖然腳程慢了一點我們還是願意希望你們明天要開會要趕快要趕快因為人家都已經拿出時間點了我們還不知道我的足跡在哪裡我要怎麼課對不對所以我給你這個功課我會繼續追你把你們明天開會預計要怎麼做怎麼協助我們的中小企業\n是告訴我們方案好不好OK好不好好謝謝楊偉好謝謝呃楊偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.981 --> 00:31.980\n謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言想邀請部長跟謝署長化學學部長好楊委員好是部長好好校長部長好那這個我們知道食品非法的添加蘇丹紅是現在是重大的食安事故那從懷疑這個紅色的辣椒粉安全性到多種原料混合咖啡粉\n\n00:32.600 --> 00:57.139\n到後來消費者自己喔也害怕了連呢白色的胡椒粉也產生了戒心喔也產生了戒心那現在有很多的這個地方政府呢他採用喔採用預防性的下架措施那教育局也暫停使用相關的產品在營養午餐這個是必要的保障孩童的安全但是另外一面\n\n00:57.799 --> 01:17.573\n也造成了合法供應商呢或者是餐飲業的一個損失對不對所以就管控的問題產生這樣的問題所以本席要請教部長這是不是我們的化學物質管理漏洞呢你的源頭管理為什麼會這麼失靈呢後續你要怎麼樣去補強這個源頭的管理楊委員報告這個標題事實上是這個不妥啦因為\n\n01:26.880 --> 01:29.841\n怎麼會不妥呢?人家都已經律行性啊你沒有資格去批評這個反質詢說這個標語同不同而是你要去說明你要用你的內容去告訴民眾你要怎麼樣放心他已經預防性的下架你還直接講這個本席要邀請你上來是要聽你專業的立場好嗎?本來就失靈嘛才會產生這預防性的下架嘛對不對?\n\n01:55.925 --> 02:21.893\n給楊委員報告就是說化學署在負責我們化學營那我們做源頭管理那蘇丹紅他事實上是我們環境部27種34項的毒化物裡面的一種他不能加到食品裡面去那我們在過去這六七年來國內並沒有系統性把\n\n02:42.829 --> 03:04.450\n我們基本上在這一塊事實上在化學營料的部分給食藥署告訴他們說過去這一年來進口的蘇丹色素有39家那這39家都取得環境部化學署裡面的運作的一個合格\n\n03:05.151 --> 03:30.938\n那他們總共呢去年才進口101克使用才41克所以並沒有留到去做食品添加物的這一塊你這麼回答讓我們更緊張了市面上已經產生這樣的現象那政府的主管機關單位告訴我們是沒有的那他是從哪裡掉下來的呢那個是辣椒粉從中國製造\n\n03:33.127 --> 03:48.238\n應到臺灣來所以事實上是在海關把關在去年的時候他抽驗從20%開始一直拉到去年底就百分之百去檢驗這個部分我們也給另外一個學部長去討論過\n\n04:05.869 --> 04:23.716\n當一個政府它的橫向組織是必須是嚴密的要怎麼樣以專業的立場去告訴民眾這個安心這是我們今天質詢的重點所以本期要跟你討論的也就是從112年8月底57種的食安一律化學物質當中還有20種對不對那個謝署長還有20種你沒有辦法以物質\n\n04:29.938 --> 04:56.437\n以物質法的方式去納管那你現在是用正部列管或者是暫緩列管或者是回歸衛福部去管嗎是不是如此請做說明跟委員報告就是我們一直陸陸續續把它檢討用獨安法公告現在還有20種還有20種20種這裡其實本來就有在經濟部那邊就這些廠商要跟他們申報所以這些還是有申報資料所以我們化學院這邊會把它框進來\n\n04:57.518 --> 05:19.899\n然後呢因為這個裡面又有這個17項是跟食品添加物是同品項的其實他東西是一樣只是他身份不是你現在講到重點了這個部長這個你們的署長好他講到重點了也就是人民已經碰到困難那政府各部門要怎樣去橫向去聯繫所以因此我要告訴部長\n\n05:20.740 --> 05:43.376\n我們目前符合列管的初衷我相信大家都希望把它做好同意也辛苦但是問題我們產生的這個問題呢也就是出了問題就說欸督促業主自主管理啊但是我覺得這樣政府不對你應該有權利你就要去執行之你也認同所以因此你整個化學物質的流向\n\n05:44.116 --> 06:07.421\n除純標示跟販賣他還有20項他目前是沒有聚在你的法律約束裡頭所以在這樣的情況之下會有漏洞所以本期希望57種裡頭我們目前還有20種還沒有納進來你們再去討論可以怎麼樣因為你如果從源頭我們才會安心啊好不好\n\n06:08.201 --> 06:29.470\n你把你們去討論的結果告訴本席最後一個議題我給你功課你順便資料給本席就好歐洲議會跟歐盟理事會在2022年的12月13號他已經達成共識2023年10月1號開始要實施看邊境的調整機制也就是CPA\n\n06:30.950 --> 06:55.803\n的這個這個這個申報2026你要開始喔要開始課這個關稅那在這樣的情況之下包括在生產過程運輸過程當中所產生的直接排放這些以及上下游供應鏈都在間接排放都納入在這個這個他要課的範圍之內那這個對於我們的企業來講在歐盟部分我們是以鋼鐵業為主喔那\n\n07:01.346 --> 07:19.394\n蘿絲帽鋼線鋼纜模具在這樣的情況之下我們很多的中小企業在出口的時候會碰到這麼大的困難所以本席要請你輔導我們老闆在探盤查以及這個申報的這個過程如何可以簡化一旦\n\n07:20.334 --> 07:49.198\n歐盟確定一定會求的嘛一旦他課的時候那麼我方要怎麼樣跟國際接軌我們環境部雖然腳程慢了一點我們還是願意希望你們明天要開會要趕快要趕快因為人家都已經拿出時間點了我們還不知道我的足跡在哪裡我要怎麼課對不對所以我給你這個功課我會繼續追你把你們明天開會預計要怎麼做怎麼協助我們的中小企業\n\n07:49.858 --> 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